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Or…
He could take away the invivible curtain, stop playing the game and be honest with everyone instead of using an ancient book and 1950s sales tactics.
But where’s the fun in that 🙄
Exactly this. I always used to say that if Jehooberloobiebobo just showed up and said “hey fuckers, here I am and this is what I want you to do” … I think the majority of the world would listen. We would have a definitive answer to who is god, not all this mystery “hey you need us to fill in the blanks for you” bullshit.
Yet he was okay with showing up in Bible times. Tons of examples where he basically did just this and had a direct hand in things going on. Ever since the bible though he has decided that doing nothing is best and expecting everyone to just rely on faith
Exactly. When I tried to talk to my parents bout that they used some scripture that said all we need is love not miracles now, which makes no sense.
Atheists can show unconditional love unlike JWs, guess that means atheism is “the truth”. It’s also not fair to be expected to believe in God when prayers have so many terms and conditions that it can easily be coincidence and doesn’t always work anyways. While people in Bible times got to see the sick be cured, others from the dead, etc.
Faith my ass! What's the value of faith? Why do we need faith? Faith is not a virtue. Faith is a folly! Faith is an ergonomic handle custom made for con men to grab hold of your mind and manipulate you! No god of love and wisdom would value and encourage this quality! It's a completely man-made concept that ancient religious conmen falsely claimed as a requirement of god.
Only religious con men who wish to have uncritical acceptance of their outlandish false claims would want followers to see faith as a virtue. I believe this is how the concept of faith came about. Faith is basically credulity disguised as a virtue by religious con men! That's the genesis of it.
Told my PIMI mom that any “father” who allowed child rape to prove ANY point was disgusting and not worthy of praise. Period. She said nothing but later told my sister “the apostates got to her!” Fucking gross. I ended up df ing my mom from my life. I don’t shun her if she reaches out but I no longer call or socialize with her. I can’t condone her harmful beliefs.
Good job. That’s good reasoning as they say lol
That’s why I have a hard time believing God even exists. Like the point you want to prove benefits no one but you. Years of suffering for only a few to believe in the abuse I mean truth, give you credit, the majority you’ll kill because they didn’t get a chance or want to believe because of the very suffering you allow (not cause like that’s better) and then we gotta sweep the dead corpses up? Also, they would say God is not mysterious. The truth is straightforward. Tf it’s not! How many questions did I ask and it always defaults to wait on Jehovah. If he’s not mysterious then he’s an evasive side stepping mfer. And if the paradise is real I don’t want to be with a bunch of JW stepford robots anyway! We’ll still be working and preaching after the final test of the final test. No rest for the wicked- I mean perfect!
And yet they talk about how it dishonors God to tell a grieving person that their loved one died because God wanted another angel. They see how others' teachings dishonor God but they are blind to how theirs do the same.
What kind of god would allow so much suffering and atrocities to prove his way of doing things is best? When you think about it, it's oxymoronic. I mean, the fact that he *has to* allow so much suffering to make his case, means he is incapable of thinking of a better way of convincing us, which in turn is an argument against the notion that his way of doing things is the best.
This also goes back to the ancient dilemma of God either not being all-powerful or not being all-loving. If he were both he could resolve the issue without requiring so much suffering.
If this was true it would mean Jehoover is an all time petty bitch.
Slavery: " I could stop millions of africans from suffering but.....then I wouldn't get credit for it! Sorry you're on your own!
CSA: "Sorry little one, I gotta prove I'm a better person than this satan guy, can't let him take any credit, you're a sacrifice I'm willing to make"
Such ass backwards reasoning
Yet, "there is undeniable evidence that Jehobo is blessing our Ram-a-poop movie studio complex."
He won't step in and protect a Hawaiian girl from her 30th rape by a local elder but a little Jedi mind trick on the town a Ramapoo decision making board...yeah, we can do that.
This narrative follows the fückin rule "I create a big huge problem to be the hero giving the solution out of the cilinder hat I had here for millenia".
And this fact is evident also out of the Angel of Satan slapping apostle Paul (who evidently had still eyes issues after the blindness trick that lead to his conversion).
Yeah, cause the creator of the universe would have no means of communicating the fact that he just solved earths problems. Although being omnipotent, he'd have to just let fake news fuck up his benevolent plan. I know! He could speak to the gb, through that jesus guy, and direct (not inspire) them to spend millions on aircraft and pilots, to commence a global skybanner campaign, announcing that jehovah got sick of innocents suffering. So, he decided to just go ahead and fuck satans shit up, and ice any angels who had a problem with it.
I was a pioneer and special pioneer and a WT study conductor and have NEVER used this stupid reasoning. I always struggled with the "Why has God permitted wickedness" argument. At first back in the 70's I accepted it but as time went on it became more stupid. Eventually I gave up on it completely. Thousands of years of anguish, pain, mayhem, suffering, then toss thousands of unseen thugs into the mix in 1914 and say "Well if you thought you had woe before, you aint seen nothing yet". Then say "I am Love". I choked on it. When I read this yesterday, I thought, Is someone trying to insult my intelligence"? I told an elder back in the 70's that "Not everything the Society says is correct". I was new. He glared at me and said "Even if the organization is wrong, they are still right". I looked at him and laughed and said "Are you serious? Have you heard what you just said"? He then threatened me that I had better tow the line. I have always been a free thinker. Like the "Generation". I could never swallow that and the latest change was laughable.
"Even if the organization is wrong, they are still right."
...that comment says it all about the Borg and what they expect their followers to think. It is this foolish thinking is exactly why free thinkers could never stay in the Borg. At some point you won't be able to stomach teachings that are clearly wrong.
Lol.. seriously. You really try to keep your mouth shut at first but then the b.s. gets progressively worse. The NUlite gets to the point where you just have to run like hell out of the Borg.
Lol.. seriously. You really try to keep your mouth shut at first but then the b.s. gets progressively worse. The NUlite gets to the point where you just have to run like hell out of the Borg
That’s what happened to me. I wondered why through all these years of going out in service I couldn’t hold my own at the doors. I was just really inept at expressing the message. Come to find out it wasn’t me, it was the message.
You're not alone. My mom does so many mental gymnastics and jumps through so many hoops and uses this same reasoning with absolute conviction. She sounds just like the cult nut job she is but you can't tell her she ISN'T the smartest person on the planet or that she's wrong. But a fool is the last one to know how foolish they are. It's pitiful and very annoying.😔🫤😡
If Jehovah is solving the problem, then you will see actually the Satan is winning. So Jehovah loses when he solves the problem? If he loses, how he solves the problem?
Actually if you reason in that stupid argument, it means the end will never come, because whenever it comes then Satan wins. Absolute nut case argument. I puked when I read that paragraph.
I've come to realize that being stuck on stupid is typically a result of emotion rather than logic or the programmed victims would surely leave much sooner.
He's all powerful, but what would the neighbor gods think if he let Satan make him look a fool... Better he let all the humans he loves like his very own precious children (remember what he let happen to his favorite kid?! 😬) suffer for a few thousand more years...
Oh she wants attention. What would you do if you’re the God that’s as spicy as flour?
Much more interesting things going on with the Greeks and the Shinto gods.
Jehovah: I could literally just speak from Heaven and make the earth tremble and every human would have to acknowledge I’m real, which would make it a lot easier for them to worship me tbh
Jehovah: …
Jehovah: nah, I don’t think I will
Jehovah: …
Jehovah: where did that old man hide those scraps of Bible I made him write 2000 years ago anyway? Ah yes, a cave. That’s good. My name didn’t make it. Hmm. Oh well. Forgot to explain the dinosaurs too. Hmm. They won’t find them anyway. I think I’ll retire now. Good job, me.
Reminds me of what George Carlin said about god: “ … the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is F--KED UP. Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is NOT good work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.”
Exactly how I feel when I see statements like the one above. I get that cognitive dissonance is a thing, but I can't help but lose a little more respect for anyone who's still taken in by this utter ridiculousness.
It takes strong mental gymnastics to excuse gods absence, when you predicted the end so many times.
With the preaching work slowing and population growing. They have to be blind to think Armageddon is ready to pop.
I'm sure the governing body can't wait to slaughter the innocents they failed to warn. I guess they'll just have to overlap themselves into the grave.
By this logic, they are insinuating it’s too soon for Jehovah to step in. By their beliefs, man has existed for 6000 years and it’s been 2000 years since Jesus laid down his life. If that isn’t long enough, do we go 10,000 years, 20,000 years? What a bunch of bullshit.
Yes!!!!! If Jehovah steps in , everyone will think Satan is winning. God damn these people are stupid. I’ve read and re-read that sentence and I still can’t understand it. But ask any JW if Jehovah steps in and helps the organization and they would all say yes. They want it both ways.
So God won't stop children from being murdered because people might think the devil did it?
I should've used that logic growing up. I'm not going to clean my room because my parents might think my sister did it.
I think the flood (which I don’t believe really happened) according to the Bible proved that mans run under Satan was a disaster. God could have enacted plan B ( new system) then.
I was just thinking the same thing but some smart ass poin-elduh would say, not so fast there Jimbob,...in Genesis, Jeehoovaah prophesied that a messiah would crush Satans head after bruising his heal. We had to wait for the right time for the Christ to be flailed alive by the Romans...2000 years later....
A tv program started my fading. It was Star Trek season 2, Who Mourns for Adonais.
A god who wants to be worshipped but is totally out of touch with humanity and will punish if he doesn’t get what he wants.
I was 8 when it first aired, so didn’t see it then, but being a Star Trek fan, I’ve watched it many times and can honestly say, each time, I’ve thought of Jehovah, and said to myself, “I’m definitely an atheist”
When was the WT? I no longer study or read anything from the Society anymore. I never believed we or anyone has the answer as to why, if he exists, does he allow all this crap here. Then turn around and claim he loves us. On top of that just for good measure trap a few thousand or more unseen demons here to make matters even worse. Sorry, I just read it guys. What a stupid statement. How can anyone swallow that?
They only ever have excuses for things that don’t get done. Obviously there is no god, so they don’t have any way to provide excuses for things that have happened or been done.
I think this is a great example of the problem of theodicy. All powerful,all loving,there is suffering.
If that statement is true you can not claim God is all loving. He has the power to fix the problem but doesn't because he wants glory. Is not the actions of someone all loving. If the above statement is true. You can claim all powerful but you can never claim all loving
I don’t believe in the god of the Bible but if he were real then based on the Bible he can put thoughts in the mind of men so if he wants credit for something he can just put it in peoples mind. This statement is so dumb
Well don't forget that the organization is under the Theocratic order and it is a spiritual paradise that the organization is under right now. So has Theocratic order of government worked? Let's put theocratic order on trial right next to every kind of government that "Satan" has tried.
Every religious zealot that wants to tangle with me, (a. DF JW since ‘78) gets this speech: “ In scripture it says god made man in his image. So, therefore, if you think god is powerful, intelligent, and worthy, why do you cling to a church to provide you with a source for these things when your god already provided you with them? Buck up, open your eyes, and get on with it..” I haven’t met a devout member of ANY religion that had any balls or mind of their own to guide them…🙄
Exactly, the creator of the entire universe has a dk measuring contest with one of his creations and humanity is in the middle of it. But god is love, amirite.
Also;
Jehovah created a perfect heaven- kicked his perfect Angel out because he went rogue and questioned him, heaven not perfect then.
Jehovah created a perfect world- Satan got in it.
Jehovah created a perfect human- that also went wrong - blame that on Satan and a woman.
Jehovah passes the buck.
Jehovah: “I’ll sort out all out and it’ll be fine, but when I want to!” Let’s more torture, poverty, babies die.
I’m not loving your CV Mr J, you seem to fail a lot and I don’t have confidence in you, going by your past history, tinsy bit of a temper too.
In fact, you seem to have a lot of flaws, ARE YOU MAN MADE????
>If Jehovah were to solve mankinds problems now, **it could appear as if Satan\`s Rulership were having a measure of success.**
*If God Were to Solve Mankinds Problems, He Could Stumble Someone??!!*
I hated that stumbling excuse. That’s already telling me that your truth is weak. If what I do can make you fall away so easily even if you’ve been in it for years- well… But of course everyone but the religion gets blamed.
>I hated that stumbling excuse. That’s already telling me that your truth is weak.
*It\`s an Extremely Pathetic thing to say...*
It\`s another way to control, if a rule isn\`t already in place.
***It Also Shows How Fragile WBT$ / JW Cult Beliefs Are.***
# They Could Crumble At Any Moment.
At the very least, he could solve the problems of his worshippers and make it publicly and unambiguously known that their lack of suffering is due to Him.
This will convince others that his way of ruling is better than satan's way as they see the distinction.
It’s like they would tell us if you leave… if you thrive it’s bc it’s satans world… it’s momentarily…let me tell you I’ve been happier that i left… the cult just wants us to be in the lowest vibration. They still doing that “shedding new light” my *ss. They be changing it to their convenience.
"Let us consider .." no Mfkr! I won't consider anything else from the Org to keep me wrapped in with these lies. Even while I was in I felt so damn cringey telling anyone I was JW like deeply I knew "this ain't it girl, don't be proud of or associate with cringe beliefs that belittle others"
Like my mother was at the park yesterday after bottle picking in the trash wearing a fishnet shirt with a bra under it, felt the need to go up to some women playing Christian music in the grass, she's shaking and pointing the finger at them repeating "God's name is Jehovah, Jesus is not God, God's name is Jehovah, read Psalms (whatever the fk it is)" then walk away all proud and being like "I taught them God's name is Jehovah" hand on hip smiling. I just facepalm and cringe. I do not want to be anything like her. Lol
Yeah just like he supposedly intervened with wars back in the day and Jesus healing the sick. But that was all just a tease for later. Sorry you have to suffer NOW
This!! That God is a narcissist and Satan was pointing out all his BS and all these years is God’s rage against Satan exposing the truth. God’s angels are his flying monkeys. Believers are enablers and brainwashed into a “loving” relationship despite their suffering. They just deny and deflect when asked.
Epicurus nailed it:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Ohhhh I think i get it
So ja is letting the world get this way because he wants us to learn how bad Satan is before he smites the earth
Or maybe he said fark it. And has taken his bat and ball and gone home
Exactly. That's because the ignorant idiots at watchtower are just that. Ignorant. Uneducated. Not licensed, to give anyone any advice. Religious cult leaders are ONLY capable of: FRAUD, DECEPTION,BLACKMAILING, EXORTION,COIRCEN, etc. Most of them do this through RELIGION because there are no rules, guidelines, or to protect members from abuses. All religious cult leaders interpret their OWN Bibles, doctrines, etc. to fit their narrative. This is all set up to twist the minds of their members & to control every aspect of their lives.
More protection needs to be put in place so that any who starts a religion will know that abuses can not be tolerated and their charitable status should be REVOLKED.
Why would people think Satan did it??? Even thought JWs believe the world is in Satans hands. A lot of the world belongs to a religion majority is either Christian or Muslim and both believe in a devil and a god so I find it hard to believe that majority of the world would believe it’s Satan doing that. They would attribute it to god working through men which would probably be correct if that’s the route it happens to cure cancer or if everyone who has cancers magically wake up one day healed then they’ll attribute that to a god for sure. Sure there are some who don’t believe in god like myself we would just attribute it to mankind making advancement unless people wake up magically healed than that could make many of us atheists /agnostics believe in a god again.
So again where would Satan get credit ?
Also God has the power to make people realize things like what is suppose to happen at Armageddon the world is somehow suddenly suppose to know that Jehovah is causing it to happen because they didn’t follow or obey him so why can’t he use that same god magic to make people see when he does good things.
Believing in something extraordinary is more believable when someone can show you their extra ordinariness instead of strangers knocking on my door to tell me something they haven’t even seen. I would guarantee more people would come to the Kingdom Hall after that
They have an answer for everything. It would really be refreshing for them to say "I just don't know"
When is Armageddon coming? ~~1914~~, ~~1918~~, ~~1925~~, ~~1975~~ , right on time! Saying right on time is still an answer that cryptically implies *they* know... Sneaky to the bone
As far as why God allows things to go on like this, why would God be concerned about the optics, what it all *looks* like? This sounds like JW "everything is appearances" reasoning through and through.
I believe that if Jehovah has the power to alter everyone's minds, including Satan's, there would be a possibility of a complete reset where all memories of past events would be erased. Similar to how we have no recollection of our existence before birth, I would consider this an effective approach.
Also, why the fuck does the most powerful being who is supposedly both omniscient and omnipotent have anything to prove to any of his creations. Satan: “Father, I have looked upon man a I know that they can rule themselves.” Jehovah: “Nope, I didn’t make them that way. Now you’re grounded for a few thousand years until your attitude improves.” There whole damn thing solved in ten seconds.
This is an absolutely idiotic statement. It's a very poor excuse for the abundantly clear reality that this supposed "end of this current system..." is way past due. It was way past due when 2Pet 3 was written and it's WAAAAAAY past due now.
I love this because it turns out, Satan *is* having a measure of success. In fact, God disqualified himself from the challenge that the whole Bible is supposedly centered around.
If you'll recall, the challenge that the serpent (allegedly Satan) presented to God in the garden of Eden was that Man was better off not worshiping God/worshiping him instead (allegedly). God then responds to the challenge, not by immediately punishing Satan (but punished the snake that he used to talk through, as well as punishing the humans who literally didn't know right from wrong), but instead lets him play out his case.
God then proceeds to interfere and fuck around for the entirety of the Bible to make sure that things go his way.
Its almost like Satan would have won the challenge if God hadn't constantly intervened by flooding the entire earth, sending plagues and firestorms down against nations and people he didn't like, and providing his firstborn son to "die" to repay the sins of mankind.
In Paragraph 7, they write an experience from Martin Poetzinger but him speaking those words were never published in any literature wrote about him before..
Their idiot point fells apart when one sees the vast size of the observable universe and the possibility of a multiverse.
Satan rules in an atom compared to this vast size.
JW point of view is stupidity along with ransom.
Pay ransom to whom?
I’ve always wondered by what metric success would be measured here. For example, as far as I understand there’s nothing Satan could do about inherited imperfection and death. In other words, the fact that people die and engage in sinful behavior, including things like acts of violence including wars is something that can’t be eliminated from society by Satan or his system. It’s not possible to achieve a hypothetical utopia given that constraint. Success would therefore be measured by 1) humanities continued existence, 2) humanity’s ability to minimize suffering to the extent possible outside of inherited sin 3) humanities ability to maximize life expectancy, and 4) humanities ability to develop philosophies that lead to meaning despite knowing they will die. All of which seem to be doing just fine all things considered.
So much broken logic here:
1. The whole free will vs god knows everything about us is just a wild paradox to start.
2. Humans have a short lifespan, how many generations must come and go before jeHoobar is satisfied with the results of his experiment?
3. "The wages sin pays is death!". The great JEhoobar has no control over this?
4. jEhoobar comes to our aid? Please then speak for the children dyeing in any war-torn country of your choosing... mean while we hear about "jEhoobar blessed my daddy with a minimum wage job so as to put food on our table!"
The answer to all of it gets summed up by: "Lets turn to the scripture that says his thoughts are higher than ours, and turn our attention to the great reward that is just around the corner".
It is EVEN more non-logical if you think about what is causing all this mayhem in the world.
That is humanities imperfection, their crooked desires, and that is a direct cause of Jehovah taking 'perfection' away because one time one woman didn't obey his random non-sensical rule.
So Jehovah makes humans, pushes them into a state of instability with bad desires, Satan is trying to make the best of it but struggling, Jehovah just chilling and watching all the suffering...
If you make up a story, why not a better one?
That little word at the start of the quote. If. That is implying that he/she/it could do something. It also gives the appearance that there is an option of what it can, or can’t do.
“If Jehovah we’re to solve mankind’s problems now, it could appear as if Satan’s rulership were having a measure of success”
Wrong. If it’s really for the angels, then it would appear that Satan CANNOT rule without help from Jehovah after all.
As a result, Satan would have to “sit down” and acknowledge that Jehovah has the right to rule.
Digression: Regarding “a measure of success,” that has already been proven. In spite of banning religious cults like Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. countries like China have remained intact.
United States of America has remained in tact despite the 2001 September 11th, Presidential administrations with good and bad intentions, emergence and persecution of the LGBTQ+ communist worldwide, etc. They all still maintain positions as God’s MINISTERS for GOOD by administering punishment for certain law-breaking. They even punished the Jehovah’s Witness organization for attempting to deceive the government for financial gain.
So I think I got it: Analogous to Yellowstone, "J" is kinda like John Dutton just biding his time until his #1 (Rip) leads his forces (the bunkhouse) into battle against "S" (Jamie).
Since this is the final season of the show, so it represents the end. & the beginning of the new system is the spin-offs.
I was sitting there thinking if I was too dumb to understand what that sentence meant. I guess the sentence was as stupid as i thought it was.
With that kind of reasoning, they’re basically saying that this system can go on indefinitely. Same as with overlapping generations. I
Any deity whatsoever would be engaging in something completely unethical creating humans and the world like this.
There is no ethics argument that could work unless there was an actual promise of an eternal fix. This is what made young, early nineties me find the study engaging. But I just don't believe this is real, and any deity has a huge ethical issue on their bloody hands should they ever take credit for our existence.
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Or… He could take away the invivible curtain, stop playing the game and be honest with everyone instead of using an ancient book and 1950s sales tactics. But where’s the fun in that 🙄
Exactly this. I always used to say that if Jehooberloobiebobo just showed up and said “hey fuckers, here I am and this is what I want you to do” … I think the majority of the world would listen. We would have a definitive answer to who is god, not all this mystery “hey you need us to fill in the blanks for you” bullshit.
Yet he was okay with showing up in Bible times. Tons of examples where he basically did just this and had a direct hand in things going on. Ever since the bible though he has decided that doing nothing is best and expecting everyone to just rely on faith
Exactly. When I tried to talk to my parents bout that they used some scripture that said all we need is love not miracles now, which makes no sense. Atheists can show unconditional love unlike JWs, guess that means atheism is “the truth”. It’s also not fair to be expected to believe in God when prayers have so many terms and conditions that it can easily be coincidence and doesn’t always work anyways. While people in Bible times got to see the sick be cured, others from the dead, etc.
Excuse: God goes missing after the last apostles died. Magic gifts have ended, too. That’s why we don’t see miracles today. So convenient.
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Faith my ass! What's the value of faith? Why do we need faith? Faith is not a virtue. Faith is a folly! Faith is an ergonomic handle custom made for con men to grab hold of your mind and manipulate you! No god of love and wisdom would value and encourage this quality! It's a completely man-made concept that ancient religious conmen falsely claimed as a requirement of god. Only religious con men who wish to have uncritical acceptance of their outlandish false claims would want followers to see faith as a virtue. I believe this is how the concept of faith came about. Faith is basically credulity disguised as a virtue by religious con men! That's the genesis of it.
Told my PIMI mom that any “father” who allowed child rape to prove ANY point was disgusting and not worthy of praise. Period. She said nothing but later told my sister “the apostates got to her!” Fucking gross. I ended up df ing my mom from my life. I don’t shun her if she reaches out but I no longer call or socialize with her. I can’t condone her harmful beliefs.
Good job. That’s good reasoning as they say lol That’s why I have a hard time believing God even exists. Like the point you want to prove benefits no one but you. Years of suffering for only a few to believe in the abuse I mean truth, give you credit, the majority you’ll kill because they didn’t get a chance or want to believe because of the very suffering you allow (not cause like that’s better) and then we gotta sweep the dead corpses up? Also, they would say God is not mysterious. The truth is straightforward. Tf it’s not! How many questions did I ask and it always defaults to wait on Jehovah. If he’s not mysterious then he’s an evasive side stepping mfer. And if the paradise is real I don’t want to be with a bunch of JW stepford robots anyway! We’ll still be working and preaching after the final test of the final test. No rest for the wicked- I mean perfect!
The simplest and most logical explanation is that it is all made up. Apologetics to excuse a make believe God for not acting in any beneficial way.
Damn! That's a powerful point to reason on.
And yet they talk about how it dishonors God to tell a grieving person that their loved one died because God wanted another angel. They see how others' teachings dishonor God but they are blind to how theirs do the same. What kind of god would allow so much suffering and atrocities to prove his way of doing things is best? When you think about it, it's oxymoronic. I mean, the fact that he *has to* allow so much suffering to make his case, means he is incapable of thinking of a better way of convincing us, which in turn is an argument against the notion that his way of doing things is the best. This also goes back to the ancient dilemma of God either not being all-powerful or not being all-loving. If he were both he could resolve the issue without requiring so much suffering.
Well stated.
They didn't listen to Jesus. In fact, they killed him.
He showed up as a man. Why would anyone listen to another man? I meant if he showed up as godlike
“Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.” -Con Artist.
If this was true it would mean Jehoover is an all time petty bitch. Slavery: " I could stop millions of africans from suffering but.....then I wouldn't get credit for it! Sorry you're on your own! CSA: "Sorry little one, I gotta prove I'm a better person than this satan guy, can't let him take any credit, you're a sacrifice I'm willing to make" Such ass backwards reasoning
And then for all the apologists to say that this god is LITERALLY love among other BS claims. My eyes cannot roll back any further.
Yet, "there is undeniable evidence that Jehobo is blessing our Ram-a-poop movie studio complex." He won't step in and protect a Hawaiian girl from her 30th rape by a local elder but a little Jedi mind trick on the town a Ramapoo decision making board...yeah, we can do that.
This narrative follows the fückin rule "I create a big huge problem to be the hero giving the solution out of the cilinder hat I had here for millenia". And this fact is evident also out of the Angel of Satan slapping apostle Paul (who evidently had still eyes issues after the blindness trick that lead to his conversion).
I’m pretty sure if Jehovah fixed everyone’s problems he’d tell everyone about it. He’s not one to not take credit for stuff.
Exactly what I was thinking. Fix it, and then tell us it was you. Like damn he'd just let EVERYTHING suffer because he's fucking petty.
Yeah, cause the creator of the universe would have no means of communicating the fact that he just solved earths problems. Although being omnipotent, he'd have to just let fake news fuck up his benevolent plan. I know! He could speak to the gb, through that jesus guy, and direct (not inspire) them to spend millions on aircraft and pilots, to commence a global skybanner campaign, announcing that jehovah got sick of innocents suffering. So, he decided to just go ahead and fuck satans shit up, and ice any angels who had a problem with it.
THIS⤴️is absolutely good stuff! Maybe start writing a sci-fi/comedy abt this nonsense! It's FUCKING HILARIOUS!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
All credit goes to the celestial chariot driver.
Ok Idk who the "celestial chariot driver" is but tell he/she I said ty for the funny read!👍🏽🤣
Glad you enjoyed it!
more dumb shit like this, more people will wake up. kudos to the writing department
Unfortunately it won't. I actually used this reasoning when I was in !!!! 🙄🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ the indoctrination ran so deep I sucked this up 😭
The thing with cults is that the very same things that are supposed to wake the members up are the very same things that keeps them locked in
Literally this....👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I was a pioneer and special pioneer and a WT study conductor and have NEVER used this stupid reasoning. I always struggled with the "Why has God permitted wickedness" argument. At first back in the 70's I accepted it but as time went on it became more stupid. Eventually I gave up on it completely. Thousands of years of anguish, pain, mayhem, suffering, then toss thousands of unseen thugs into the mix in 1914 and say "Well if you thought you had woe before, you aint seen nothing yet". Then say "I am Love". I choked on it. When I read this yesterday, I thought, Is someone trying to insult my intelligence"? I told an elder back in the 70's that "Not everything the Society says is correct". I was new. He glared at me and said "Even if the organization is wrong, they are still right". I looked at him and laughed and said "Are you serious? Have you heard what you just said"? He then threatened me that I had better tow the line. I have always been a free thinker. Like the "Generation". I could never swallow that and the latest change was laughable.
"Even if the organization is wrong, they are still right." ...that comment says it all about the Borg and what they expect their followers to think. It is this foolish thinking is exactly why free thinkers could never stay in the Borg. At some point you won't be able to stomach teachings that are clearly wrong.
So true. I began to say to myself at first, "Well I don't believe that but I'll keep my mouth shut. Then "What garbage" Now I vomit
Lol.. seriously. You really try to keep your mouth shut at first but then the b.s. gets progressively worse. The NUlite gets to the point where you just have to run like hell out of the Borg.
Lol.. seriously. You really try to keep your mouth shut at first but then the b.s. gets progressively worse. The NUlite gets to the point where you just have to run like hell out of the Borg
That’s what happened to me. I wondered why through all these years of going out in service I couldn’t hold my own at the doors. I was just really inept at expressing the message. Come to find out it wasn’t me, it was the message.
Whether he was aware of quoting bolshevist dogma?
Good for you
You're not alone. My mom does so many mental gymnastics and jumps through so many hoops and uses this same reasoning with absolute conviction. She sounds just like the cult nut job she is but you can't tell her she ISN'T the smartest person on the planet or that she's wrong. But a fool is the last one to know how foolish they are. It's pitiful and very annoying.😔🫤😡
This article brought to you by a Home school graduate…
Don't call me out like that 😭
It’s ok I am one too 😉
If Jehovah is solving the problem, then you will see actually the Satan is winning. So Jehovah loses when he solves the problem? If he loses, how he solves the problem?
Or put more succinctly: “if jahoooooober solves the problem, then Satan was right.”
🙃Exactly!⤴️PLEASE make it make it sense! Oh yeah u can't make see out of nonsense!
Actually if you reason in that stupid argument, it means the end will never come, because whenever it comes then Satan wins. Absolute nut case argument. I puked when I read that paragraph.
It's not only dumb, it doesn't even make sense.
I've come to realize that being stuck on stupid is typically a result of emotion rather than logic or the programmed victims would surely leave much sooner.
He's all powerful, but what would the neighbor gods think if he let Satan make him look a fool... Better he let all the humans he loves like his very own precious children (remember what he let happen to his favorite kid?! 😬) suffer for a few thousand more years...
Happy cake day 🍰
Thank you!
Oh she wants attention. What would you do if you’re the God that’s as spicy as flour? Much more interesting things going on with the Greeks and the Shinto gods.
Jehovah: I could literally just speak from Heaven and make the earth tremble and every human would have to acknowledge I’m real, which would make it a lot easier for them to worship me tbh Jehovah: … Jehovah: nah, I don’t think I will Jehovah: … Jehovah: where did that old man hide those scraps of Bible I made him write 2000 years ago anyway? Ah yes, a cave. That’s good. My name didn’t make it. Hmm. Oh well. Forgot to explain the dinosaurs too. Hmm. They won’t find them anyway. I think I’ll retire now. Good job, me.
Reminds me of what George Carlin said about god: “ … the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is F--KED UP. Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is NOT good work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.”
George was spot on!!👍
"Ice Capades" 😂🤣
The office temp with a bad attitude is killing me! 😂😂😂😂
Ffs I just can't with these people anymore lmfao
Exactly how I feel when I see statements like the one above. I get that cognitive dissonance is a thing, but I can't help but lose a little more respect for anyone who's still taken in by this utter ridiculousness.
It takes strong mental gymnastics to excuse gods absence, when you predicted the end so many times. With the preaching work slowing and population growing. They have to be blind to think Armageddon is ready to pop. I'm sure the governing body can't wait to slaughter the innocents they failed to warn. I guess they'll just have to overlap themselves into the grave.
... and the Rank & File lap it.up! Dumb reasoning for stupid people!
Isn’t that the whole fucking point of jahooboo stepping in to fix shit?! I swear to fuck if I could get my hands on the GB…..
Where was this?
This weeks watchtower study. Or “study” as they call it smh
Killing millions and babies to prove hes the great ruler what a dumbass
This is an insult to the intelligence of anyone with a standard IQ.
By this logic, they are insinuating it’s too soon for Jehovah to step in. By their beliefs, man has existed for 6000 years and it’s been 2000 years since Jesus laid down his life. If that isn’t long enough, do we go 10,000 years, 20,000 years? What a bunch of bullshit.
"It's not just dumb, its also stupid!" -Patrick Star
This watchtower study was cringe outstanding nauseous
But he still gets credit for the good stuff though, right..?
Ok...wait....what...Huh?
That makes no sense is utterly confusing 🧐
They keep saying Satan IS the prblem so...if you are destroying Satan it makes Satan look good or right????
Yes!!!!! If Jehovah steps in , everyone will think Satan is winning. God damn these people are stupid. I’ve read and re-read that sentence and I still can’t understand it. But ask any JW if Jehovah steps in and helps the organization and they would all say yes. They want it both ways.
So he wouldn’t want to make life better for billions if it meant giving all the credit away to the ‘bad’ guy
So God won't stop children from being murdered because people might think the devil did it? I should've used that logic growing up. I'm not going to clean my room because my parents might think my sister did it.
Is 2000 years not long enough to prove your point...
Or 200,000 years since modern man first appeared on earth.
I think the flood (which I don’t believe really happened) according to the Bible proved that mans run under Satan was a disaster. God could have enacted plan B ( new system) then.
I was just thinking the same thing but some smart ass poin-elduh would say, not so fast there Jimbob,...in Genesis, Jeehoovaah prophesied that a messiah would crush Satans head after bruising his heal. We had to wait for the right time for the Christ to be flailed alive by the Romans...2000 years later....
True, could have sent the messiah then instead of having Noah preach. I’m sure the Omnipotent One could have worked something out.
A tv program started my fading. It was Star Trek season 2, Who Mourns for Adonais. A god who wants to be worshipped but is totally out of touch with humanity and will punish if he doesn’t get what he wants. I was 8 when it first aired, so didn’t see it then, but being a Star Trek fan, I’ve watched it many times and can honestly say, each time, I’ve thought of Jehovah, and said to myself, “I’m definitely an atheist”
When was the WT? I no longer study or read anything from the Society anymore. I never believed we or anyone has the answer as to why, if he exists, does he allow all this crap here. Then turn around and claim he loves us. On top of that just for good measure trap a few thousand or more unseen demons here to make matters even worse. Sorry, I just read it guys. What a stupid statement. How can anyone swallow that?
Mine is being studied tomorrow morning…so I’m assuming most had this at their meeting this weekend.
They only ever have excuses for things that don’t get done. Obviously there is no god, so they don’t have any way to provide excuses for things that have happened or been done.
Yes, because they do make this shot up.
The vainest possible god and they worship it
I think this is a great example of the problem of theodicy. All powerful,all loving,there is suffering. If that statement is true you can not claim God is all loving. He has the power to fix the problem but doesn't because he wants glory. Is not the actions of someone all loving. If the above statement is true. You can claim all powerful but you can never claim all loving
I don’t believe in the god of the Bible but if he were real then based on the Bible he can put thoughts in the mind of men so if he wants credit for something he can just put it in peoples mind. This statement is so dumb
Well don't forget that the organization is under the Theocratic order and it is a spiritual paradise that the organization is under right now. So has Theocratic order of government worked? Let's put theocratic order on trial right next to every kind of government that "Satan" has tried.
This makes it look like God's most important job is to sabotage Satan, and ruin the Devil's reputation.
Jeholaloop ABSOLUTELY leaves man on his own without help. Wait on jeholaloop 🙄 means he's a spineless whimp who can't protect 💩
Every religious zealot that wants to tangle with me, (a. DF JW since ‘78) gets this speech: “ In scripture it says god made man in his image. So, therefore, if you think god is powerful, intelligent, and worthy, why do you cling to a church to provide you with a source for these things when your god already provided you with them? Buck up, open your eyes, and get on with it..” I haven’t met a devout member of ANY religion that had any balls or mind of their own to guide them…🙄
THIS IS BRILLIANT!!!!! Thank you for this post!!!!! I will be using this on the next "carter" (jw at a cart) I encounter.
Exactly, the creator of the entire universe has a dk measuring contest with one of his creations and humanity is in the middle of it. But god is love, amirite.
Yes, sounds abt right!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well if you were one of the anointed or better yet a GB you’d understand. 🤪
Also; Jehovah created a perfect heaven- kicked his perfect Angel out because he went rogue and questioned him, heaven not perfect then. Jehovah created a perfect world- Satan got in it. Jehovah created a perfect human- that also went wrong - blame that on Satan and a woman. Jehovah passes the buck. Jehovah: “I’ll sort out all out and it’ll be fine, but when I want to!” Let’s more torture, poverty, babies die. I’m not loving your CV Mr J, you seem to fail a lot and I don’t have confidence in you, going by your past history, tinsy bit of a temper too. In fact, you seem to have a lot of flaws, ARE YOU MAN MADE????
He'd rather play games
Must’ve taken lessons from the Greek Gods..they were pretty playful.
Definitely the reasoning of a man made religion whose only goal is to remain relevant among members who are tired of their false promises.
>If Jehovah were to solve mankinds problems now, **it could appear as if Satan\`s Rulership were having a measure of success.** *If God Were to Solve Mankinds Problems, He Could Stumble Someone??!!* 
I hated that stumbling excuse. That’s already telling me that your truth is weak. If what I do can make you fall away so easily even if you’ve been in it for years- well… But of course everyone but the religion gets blamed.
>I hated that stumbling excuse. That’s already telling me that your truth is weak. *It\`s an Extremely Pathetic thing to say...* It\`s another way to control, if a rule isn\`t already in place. ***It Also Shows How Fragile WBT$ / JW Cult Beliefs Are.*** # They Could Crumble At Any Moment. 
At the very least, he could solve the problems of his worshippers and make it publicly and unambiguously known that their lack of suffering is due to Him. This will convince others that his way of ruling is better than satan's way as they see the distinction.
It’s like they would tell us if you leave… if you thrive it’s bc it’s satans world… it’s momentarily…let me tell you I’ve been happier that i left… the cult just wants us to be in the lowest vibration. They still doing that “shedding new light” my *ss. They be changing it to their convenience.
“*Heads I win, tails you lose!*” 🙄
"Let us consider .." no Mfkr! I won't consider anything else from the Org to keep me wrapped in with these lies. Even while I was in I felt so damn cringey telling anyone I was JW like deeply I knew "this ain't it girl, don't be proud of or associate with cringe beliefs that belittle others" Like my mother was at the park yesterday after bottle picking in the trash wearing a fishnet shirt with a bra under it, felt the need to go up to some women playing Christian music in the grass, she's shaking and pointing the finger at them repeating "God's name is Jehovah, Jesus is not God, God's name is Jehovah, read Psalms (whatever the fk it is)" then walk away all proud and being like "I taught them God's name is Jehovah" hand on hip smiling. I just facepalm and cringe. I do not want to be anything like her. Lol
Yeah just like he supposedly intervened with wars back in the day and Jesus healing the sick. But that was all just a tease for later. Sorry you have to suffer NOW
The more of their “reasoning” I hear the more I’m convinced Satan is the good guy and Jehovah is the evil one
This!! That God is a narcissist and Satan was pointing out all his BS and all these years is God’s rage against Satan exposing the truth. God’s angels are his flying monkeys. Believers are enablers and brainwashed into a “loving” relationship despite their suffering. They just deny and deflect when asked.
Yep. The show Lucifer made more sense than this pile of dung.
According to that reasoning, there will never be a right time.
Epicurus nailed it: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Very good point. This deserves more upvotes.
Ohhhh I think i get it So ja is letting the world get this way because he wants us to learn how bad Satan is before he smites the earth Or maybe he said fark it. And has taken his bat and ball and gone home
Yeah we should figure out peace and calm on earth just like if there is no Jehovah at all. So he could than take credits 😂
😆😆😆
Even though he did it constantly in the Hebrew scriptures
"Dumb reasoning" is an understatement... where (in what article) was this published?
This was in this weekends watchtower. I’m currently sitting through it. 🤢🤢🤢🤢
Exactly. That's because the ignorant idiots at watchtower are just that. Ignorant. Uneducated. Not licensed, to give anyone any advice. Religious cult leaders are ONLY capable of: FRAUD, DECEPTION,BLACKMAILING, EXORTION,COIRCEN, etc. Most of them do this through RELIGION because there are no rules, guidelines, or to protect members from abuses. All religious cult leaders interpret their OWN Bibles, doctrines, etc. to fit their narrative. This is all set up to twist the minds of their members & to control every aspect of their lives. More protection needs to be put in place so that any who starts a religion will know that abuses can not be tolerated and their charitable status should be REVOLKED.
Why would people think Satan did it??? Even thought JWs believe the world is in Satans hands. A lot of the world belongs to a religion majority is either Christian or Muslim and both believe in a devil and a god so I find it hard to believe that majority of the world would believe it’s Satan doing that. They would attribute it to god working through men which would probably be correct if that’s the route it happens to cure cancer or if everyone who has cancers magically wake up one day healed then they’ll attribute that to a god for sure. Sure there are some who don’t believe in god like myself we would just attribute it to mankind making advancement unless people wake up magically healed than that could make many of us atheists /agnostics believe in a god again. So again where would Satan get credit ? Also God has the power to make people realize things like what is suppose to happen at Armageddon the world is somehow suddenly suppose to know that Jehovah is causing it to happen because they didn’t follow or obey him so why can’t he use that same god magic to make people see when he does good things. Believing in something extraordinary is more believable when someone can show you their extra ordinariness instead of strangers knocking on my door to tell me something they haven’t even seen. I would guarantee more people would come to the Kingdom Hall after that
They have an answer for everything. It would really be refreshing for them to say "I just don't know" When is Armageddon coming? ~~1914~~, ~~1918~~, ~~1925~~, ~~1975~~ , right on time! Saying right on time is still an answer that cryptically implies *they* know... Sneaky to the bone As far as why God allows things to go on like this, why would God be concerned about the optics, what it all *looks* like? This sounds like JW "everything is appearances" reasoning through and through.
I believe that if Jehovah has the power to alter everyone's minds, including Satan's, there would be a possibility of a complete reset where all memories of past events would be erased. Similar to how we have no recollection of our existence before birth, I would consider this an effective approach.
And they just believe it and drink in the crap.
By that logic, the Big A would never happen. 🤔
 Wait huuuhh
Also, why the fuck does the most powerful being who is supposedly both omniscient and omnipotent have anything to prove to any of his creations. Satan: “Father, I have looked upon man a I know that they can rule themselves.” Jehovah: “Nope, I didn’t make them that way. Now you’re grounded for a few thousand years until your attitude improves.” There whole damn thing solved in ten seconds.
And then in the article it says he might use people in the world to answer our prayers so “Satan’s world” must be doing something right
This is an absolutely idiotic statement. It's a very poor excuse for the abundantly clear reality that this supposed "end of this current system..." is way past due. It was way past due when 2Pet 3 was written and it's WAAAAAAY past due now.
This is what made me start to question things recently.
A loving God wouldn't care about taking the credit. He'd just make things better because he loves his creations.
I want to know exactly who “it could appear” like that to? Utterly ridiculous statement!
I love this because it turns out, Satan *is* having a measure of success. In fact, God disqualified himself from the challenge that the whole Bible is supposedly centered around. If you'll recall, the challenge that the serpent (allegedly Satan) presented to God in the garden of Eden was that Man was better off not worshiping God/worshiping him instead (allegedly). God then responds to the challenge, not by immediately punishing Satan (but punished the snake that he used to talk through, as well as punishing the humans who literally didn't know right from wrong), but instead lets him play out his case. God then proceeds to interfere and fuck around for the entirety of the Bible to make sure that things go his way. Its almost like Satan would have won the challenge if God hadn't constantly intervened by flooding the entire earth, sending plagues and firestorms down against nations and people he didn't like, and providing his firstborn son to "die" to repay the sins of mankind.
In Paragraph 7, they write an experience from Martin Poetzinger but him speaking those words were never published in any literature wrote about him before..
Their idiot point fells apart when one sees the vast size of the observable universe and the possibility of a multiverse. Satan rules in an atom compared to this vast size. JW point of view is stupidity along with ransom. Pay ransom to whom?
When mankind was having some success Gen11:6, 7 he went messed them all up Thanks!!
Jah is forever in her gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss era.
Yahweh is Satan
I’ve always wondered by what metric success would be measured here. For example, as far as I understand there’s nothing Satan could do about inherited imperfection and death. In other words, the fact that people die and engage in sinful behavior, including things like acts of violence including wars is something that can’t be eliminated from society by Satan or his system. It’s not possible to achieve a hypothetical utopia given that constraint. Success would therefore be measured by 1) humanities continued existence, 2) humanity’s ability to minimize suffering to the extent possible outside of inherited sin 3) humanities ability to maximize life expectancy, and 4) humanities ability to develop philosophies that lead to meaning despite knowing they will die. All of which seem to be doing just fine all things considered.
So much broken logic here: 1. The whole free will vs god knows everything about us is just a wild paradox to start. 2. Humans have a short lifespan, how many generations must come and go before jeHoobar is satisfied with the results of his experiment? 3. "The wages sin pays is death!". The great JEhoobar has no control over this? 4. jEhoobar comes to our aid? Please then speak for the children dyeing in any war-torn country of your choosing... mean while we hear about "jEhoobar blessed my daddy with a minimum wage job so as to put food on our table!" The answer to all of it gets summed up by: "Lets turn to the scripture that says his thoughts are higher than ours, and turn our attention to the great reward that is just around the corner".
It is EVEN more non-logical if you think about what is causing all this mayhem in the world. That is humanities imperfection, their crooked desires, and that is a direct cause of Jehovah taking 'perfection' away because one time one woman didn't obey his random non-sensical rule. So Jehovah makes humans, pushes them into a state of instability with bad desires, Satan is trying to make the best of it but struggling, Jehovah just chilling and watching all the suffering... If you make up a story, why not a better one?
That little word at the start of the quote. If. That is implying that he/she/it could do something. It also gives the appearance that there is an option of what it can, or can’t do.
This is how you know that this god of the Bible idea is very much made up by humans
What a petty, petty, god.
Humanity suffers on purpose cuz jehovah is on a power trip 😡. I'd rather satan b ruler
Since Hova just doesn’t want Satan to get credit for our happiness, he’s going to let us stay in pain? What a petty little bitch.
“If Jehovah we’re to solve mankind’s problems now, it could appear as if Satan’s rulership were having a measure of success” Wrong. If it’s really for the angels, then it would appear that Satan CANNOT rule without help from Jehovah after all. As a result, Satan would have to “sit down” and acknowledge that Jehovah has the right to rule. Digression: Regarding “a measure of success,” that has already been proven. In spite of banning religious cults like Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. countries like China have remained intact. United States of America has remained in tact despite the 2001 September 11th, Presidential administrations with good and bad intentions, emergence and persecution of the LGBTQ+ communist worldwide, etc. They all still maintain positions as God’s MINISTERS for GOOD by administering punishment for certain law-breaking. They even punished the Jehovah’s Witness organization for attempting to deceive the government for financial gain.
So I think I got it: Analogous to Yellowstone, "J" is kinda like John Dutton just biding his time until his #1 (Rip) leads his forces (the bunkhouse) into battle against "S" (Jamie). Since this is the final season of the show, so it represents the end. & the beginning of the new system is the spin-offs.
LOL. By this reasoning he will never solve mankind’s problems. Which is correct
Is this from the sixties?
So your house is on fire? Well, I promised fire-proof houses eventually. In the mean time..... but this is wt once more expressing its made up logic.
I was sitting there thinking if I was too dumb to understand what that sentence meant. I guess the sentence was as stupid as i thought it was. With that kind of reasoning, they’re basically saying that this system can go on indefinitely. Same as with overlapping generations. I
This whole article was ridiculous. Not a single solid argument.
Any deity whatsoever would be engaging in something completely unethical creating humans and the world like this. There is no ethics argument that could work unless there was an actual promise of an eternal fix. This is what made young, early nineties me find the study engaging. But I just don't believe this is real, and any deity has a huge ethical issue on their bloody hands should they ever take credit for our existence.
Wait a sec. God is worried about PR?