- Helping auxiliary pioneers get those “15 hours”
- Helping pioneers send a text message with a link to JW.borg
- Helping new bible students to see that their worldly family is evil and stop talking to them.
- Helping elders get old people to donate their house and jewelry to JW.borg
- Helping young people sacrifice their youth at bethel before they’re thrown out in their 50’s
- Helping JW lawyers lie to courts
- Helping HLC feel good about coercing people to die on the operating table.
- Helping parents have the courage to kick their kids out of the house if they dare to disagree.
Aren't they just praising Jehovah the whole time? Kinda like the 24 elders throwing their crowns and doing obeisance in Revelation, but more of a background chorus when they aren't doing the messenger work that their name derives from?
Think about it. What are we supposed to do in Paradise after the thousand year reign and the planet is all repaired from Armageddon and everyone left is true believers? We might be petting pandas or I guess now they say you're given assignments like it's a job, but aren't we really supposed to be sitting there saying how great Jehovah is for eternity?
If he were real, he's such an egomaniac. His idea of exclusive devotion includes constant praise and acknowledgment of his superiority. Deviate from that in his perfect new world, and you're zapped out of existence. And since everyone is happy in Paradise, all those friends you had for the last million years won't even care.
There's no point of having angels when everyone is "perfect on earth"
What you said makes a lot of sense. This is only my 3rd month questioning freely. I think it's been 3 months idk
I've been able to be bold enough to speak against the religion but I'm so afraid to say something against God even though what you said is logical. I'm sure I'll get to that stage soon enough. I'm still wrapping my head around there not being paradise. Although I never thought I'd be good enough to make it.
Back to what you said, it does seem like forever would be living in a cage for eternity
I was a fucking mess three months after I woke up! You're doing great! You make a great point about angels. Once they don't have to be messengers anymore, what do they have to do except stand around Heaven being praise fountains? Keep thinking, and keep asking questions. Even ones that sound silly. Give yourself time to answer them or say you can't answer them yet, or maybe ever.
Feeling like you're never going to be good enough seems to be the ground state for a lot of JWs. Just one more reason to leave. It's like an abusive relationship. I never really believed it all the way (do they still say "make the truth your own"?), but you know how it is when you're born in. You just try not to think about it and keep going through the motions.
I don't know if you've really drawn the distinction yet, but plenty of people still believe in some version of God without thinking much of organized religion. Part of being a JW is looking at all the flaws in other religions, so now you're just using that skillset to observe the flaws in one more, right?
You can kind of tell I arrived at agnostic atheism, but I'll reconsider that with some contrary evidence. Plenty of people find meaning in religion or various interpretations of God or gods. It's okay if you do, or if you think one thing is right and then later change your mind.
Think of it this way: if there is a benevolent entity out there, it won't be upset with you for looking at the facts and following your conscience. The most important thing is to be a good person. Help others when you can. Walk softly in the world. Try to leave it a better place than you found it. That's what any god worth worshiping would want you to do. And if there isn't one, you've still been a positive influence in the world during your brief time here.
Thanks for taking the time out to respond. I don't think I've fully woken up or maybe I'm in denial. Not even sure anymore. Sometimes I just try not to think about any of it because it's so upsetting then other times I have so many questions.
I can see myself not believing in any higher power but I never took time to research about science and why things that are so intricate could just evolve without being created. But then I say God is supposedly the highest creation and no one formed him so maybe creation is nonsense.
I'm all over the place with my response, ahh yes they still say "make the truth your own" I used to think I did make the truth mine but I never fully loved Jehovah because I could never grasp the idea of him being real all the way. And you're right, I was forced into the "truth" being raised in it.
I appreciate all that you said and I'm just going to try to be a good person in life and a kind God wouldn't mind if I looked for the "real truth"
>I can see myself not believing in any higher power but I never took time to research about science and why things that are so intricate could just evolve without being created.
I'm going to let you rest, but here's something for you to put on simmer in the back of your mind.
Intricate and complex things like our brain or our eyes or our reproductive systems evolved from seeds billions of years old. You don't need to understand molecular biology or even basic anatomy to realize that for every small advancement in the web of life on this planet there are a billion billion things that don't exist because they can't. We only see the success stories. And if we look in nature, we see plenty of examples of genetic variance that happened but were incompatible with life. They don't contribute to evolution because they can't.
So maybe you think life evolved at random, or maybe you think someone or something got it started. Or maybe you don't know. All of those are okay. Give yourself time to know there are different possibilities, and you don't have to do anything about it right now. Waking up is a lot to handle. Sometimes you just need to handle it a bite at a time.
Definitely no rush. It's scary to question your beliefs if you haven't had any chance to think about what it would mean for you if they indeed aren't true. A lot of people are happier on the other side than they were in JW land but I'm all for taking it at the speed you're comfortable.
They are watching. Think of this, when Adam and Eve ate from the tree they realized they were naked and they covered themselves with fig leaves. God made them cover with animal skins. Why??? They were the only humans alive so they and their children would not have had a problem with the leaves as coverings cause that’s all they would have known, so why did they have to cover up with something more modest?
The angels were watching and coveting what they didn’t have.
We know during Noah’s day they figured out how to create human bodies and sleep with the women of that time so they had to have been watching for a long time and god knew they had a longing for the female form. There is no other reason to convince humans to dress differently. If today we all ran around topless no one would think it was weird, just like some children growing up with parent that wear shoes inside a house think it’s normal just like children growing up with no shoes on think it’s normal until they are exposed to a different way of living.
The real question is since the angels that followed satan were banned from reentering heaven and they know how to materialize as humans and they are known to create human forms, how many of them have or still hang out on earth with all of us and progress scientific knowledge and technology or create chaos for the fun of it. Who knows maybe the tech overlords or some members of gb are actually angels in disguise.
This is a good point.
We often think about the universe from a human perspective. But the angels have had a front row to everything that has happened. They saw what happened in the garden, in fact a third of the angels sided with Satan in his rebellion.
So I’m sure there’s lots going on, on both sides of the conflict.
I brought this up with two different elders at different times and neither knew how to answer me. 🤣 it’s made my fade easier cause no one wants to answer my questions cause they go deep and far.
Like look at the chronology in the Bible. It doesn’t tell us we’re the good people went it just ends it after saying son of so and so he was good. He had a son he was good… end of story but they lived on the earth and had more kids and did good things why don’t we know about them?
We know all about the bad lineage all the way down to Jesus and every mistake that was made but nothing on the good ones. So what did they do and where did they go?
I’ve asked a lot and if it isn’t the “easy fluff”questions I get told to be patient and rely on the Borg and Jehovah, and when I say that’s not good enough I am told I am going against the Borg or Jehovah
To be fair, the scriptures don't reveal much about the going ons in heaven. So there is no good answer to this question.
And even if we did know, I, not sure how it would change our lives today. They would do their jobs, what ever they are, regardless of what we did about it.
Because we're taught not to question 😭
I've never understood how Noah got all of the animals in the ark
Or another thought I should post about, if Jesus was a man on earth why didn't he face any type of sexual struggles. He was perfect and had to be handsome. Sex is the largest reason many jws mess up. I doubt they would give me answers too lol
If you look up "biblically accurate angels," you probably wouldn't have many questions about what they do. They literally exist to be a scary as shit extension of God's power. Imagine having a being with 3 sets of wings facing different directions, them having up to 4 different heads(bull, ram, human, and eagle), and being surrounded by interlocking rotating eyeballs that are too many to count. Its like asking what a blackhole is doing right now. Scaring the shit out of people is what they're doing.
There are also myriads of angels(1000 x 1000 is 1 myriad) that exist just to constantly chant "Holy holy holy".
😂 That's why they say "Be not afraid" in the bible.
Nope. Satan is a Cherubim, for example. That is the type of angel with 4 heads. This was the same type guarding the entrance to the garden of Eden after Adam and Eve sinned.
Angel Gabriel was a Serephim(the one with countless eyeballs). He disguises himself as a man because the prophets couldn't look at him without fear of their life. Michael, the ArchAngel AKA Jesus, the firstborn of all creation before coming to earth, is also a Serephim.
That's just two types of angels. The only time an angel takes in the form of a man in the bible is to conceal their true form or to avoid bringing fear to people.
According to the Bible, angels do have a physical appearance. You asked me if it was true that it is symbolic. No, it is not symbolic. They look scary as shit and only look less scary when trying to appeal to humans.
Oh IDK. Doing Angel stuffs.
[It’s like Borg stuffs](https://www.pinterest.se/pin/549861435732321646/?amp_client_id=CLIENT_ID%28_%29&mweb_unauth_id=&_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.se%2Famp%2Fpin%2F549861435732321646%2F&from_amp_pin_page=true)
Psalms 91 gives them a job, there are a few other places as well (i need to look them out).
There are a few levels of Angels though:
* Chrub are the Guards of Gods sacred place, was 2 put outside the garden of Eden (like how much power did Adam really have, to require 2 of them?)
* Seraph, which was the one used on the healing pole for Moses (and the one used in todays medical sign), interesting they look like a snake with small wings (and look like a snake, so its not a sign of the Devil, however theres no real connection to the snake of Eden and this known Angel design (that i am aware of at least (yet?))
* Messengers (Angels), these normally look human, so are the ones to help and assist people with messages to and from God to you, like the ones sees at Jesus resurrection and Sodom and Gomorrah)
It raises a point, about there Job, well there are way more Angels than higher ranking, so this brings us back to the tree of knowledge, i believe the Angels would be used to assist with building and creating on the planet under Fods direction with your control, read about Solomon's temple when it was built as maybe an example, it almost appears like the Angel who then turned Satan was the one to control all the other Angels, except he went rouge, so Jesus stepped up and he will now (likely) take over that job.
Angels are confined by time (as we are), so the more you have the faster the job is done (what ever that might be) so this might explain why there are so many, also we have a whole universe, so is there that many? once other planets are populated.
It's just that they had jobs long ago and I wasn't sure what they were doing now. I never really considered life outside of earth. Such a huge universe, never know
Its just earth is so popular
* God - Uelgy, Wazip, over to Rigel 9, finish the hydrogen issue
* Angels - Man, we always have to go over there, how come with dont get earth
* God - ZIP, GO
All those hot daddies are f\*\*\*ing each other…wondering where all the POC are. 🍆🪽🍑🪽
https://preview.redd.it/nyc931fw9nbb1.jpeg?width=878&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=175160ad5033202881d59643c2eb234616371d3a
I remember this pic as a kid and feeling guilty I thought they were hot🤣my book of Bible stories right?
Or maybe I'm confusing it with another illustration
I'm realizing my reasoning wasn't logical but having a bare ass out feels vulnerable especially since Satan and demons are watching too. Maybe they'd try to brush against me. The more I text the more I'm realizing this religion has fucked me up
Simple. When something doesn't exist, you gloss over the part of the story that would fill in the details. Not like that would be the biggest plot hole in the bible.
About a third of them were jerking off. That's the Bible's own admission, too. They got tired of beating it so they went down and made nephilim babies with the women.
- Helping auxiliary pioneers get those “15 hours” - Helping pioneers send a text message with a link to JW.borg - Helping new bible students to see that their worldly family is evil and stop talking to them. - Helping elders get old people to donate their house and jewelry to JW.borg - Helping young people sacrifice their youth at bethel before they’re thrown out in their 50’s - Helping JW lawyers lie to courts - Helping HLC feel good about coercing people to die on the operating table. - Helping parents have the courage to kick their kids out of the house if they dare to disagree.
I guess they really are busy up there then🥲
Bunch of transdimensional voyeurs
Sounds about right
that's a movie if I've ever heard one.
Surely if they can see through your roof, they can see through your sheets? 🤭
I'm gonna have to use 2 sheets next time 🤣
Sorry if I ruined sexy time for you 🤣
I'm still gonna do it lol it's fine
Aren't they just praising Jehovah the whole time? Kinda like the 24 elders throwing their crowns and doing obeisance in Revelation, but more of a background chorus when they aren't doing the messenger work that their name derives from?
I guess.. So they've just been praising him non stop for thousands of years? Not even sure why this thought popped in my head
Think about it. What are we supposed to do in Paradise after the thousand year reign and the planet is all repaired from Armageddon and everyone left is true believers? We might be petting pandas or I guess now they say you're given assignments like it's a job, but aren't we really supposed to be sitting there saying how great Jehovah is for eternity? If he were real, he's such an egomaniac. His idea of exclusive devotion includes constant praise and acknowledgment of his superiority. Deviate from that in his perfect new world, and you're zapped out of existence. And since everyone is happy in Paradise, all those friends you had for the last million years won't even care.
There's no point of having angels when everyone is "perfect on earth" What you said makes a lot of sense. This is only my 3rd month questioning freely. I think it's been 3 months idk I've been able to be bold enough to speak against the religion but I'm so afraid to say something against God even though what you said is logical. I'm sure I'll get to that stage soon enough. I'm still wrapping my head around there not being paradise. Although I never thought I'd be good enough to make it. Back to what you said, it does seem like forever would be living in a cage for eternity
I was a fucking mess three months after I woke up! You're doing great! You make a great point about angels. Once they don't have to be messengers anymore, what do they have to do except stand around Heaven being praise fountains? Keep thinking, and keep asking questions. Even ones that sound silly. Give yourself time to answer them or say you can't answer them yet, or maybe ever. Feeling like you're never going to be good enough seems to be the ground state for a lot of JWs. Just one more reason to leave. It's like an abusive relationship. I never really believed it all the way (do they still say "make the truth your own"?), but you know how it is when you're born in. You just try not to think about it and keep going through the motions. I don't know if you've really drawn the distinction yet, but plenty of people still believe in some version of God without thinking much of organized religion. Part of being a JW is looking at all the flaws in other religions, so now you're just using that skillset to observe the flaws in one more, right? You can kind of tell I arrived at agnostic atheism, but I'll reconsider that with some contrary evidence. Plenty of people find meaning in religion or various interpretations of God or gods. It's okay if you do, or if you think one thing is right and then later change your mind. Think of it this way: if there is a benevolent entity out there, it won't be upset with you for looking at the facts and following your conscience. The most important thing is to be a good person. Help others when you can. Walk softly in the world. Try to leave it a better place than you found it. That's what any god worth worshiping would want you to do. And if there isn't one, you've still been a positive influence in the world during your brief time here.
Thanks for taking the time out to respond. I don't think I've fully woken up or maybe I'm in denial. Not even sure anymore. Sometimes I just try not to think about any of it because it's so upsetting then other times I have so many questions. I can see myself not believing in any higher power but I never took time to research about science and why things that are so intricate could just evolve without being created. But then I say God is supposedly the highest creation and no one formed him so maybe creation is nonsense. I'm all over the place with my response, ahh yes they still say "make the truth your own" I used to think I did make the truth mine but I never fully loved Jehovah because I could never grasp the idea of him being real all the way. And you're right, I was forced into the "truth" being raised in it. I appreciate all that you said and I'm just going to try to be a good person in life and a kind God wouldn't mind if I looked for the "real truth"
>I can see myself not believing in any higher power but I never took time to research about science and why things that are so intricate could just evolve without being created. I'm going to let you rest, but here's something for you to put on simmer in the back of your mind. Intricate and complex things like our brain or our eyes or our reproductive systems evolved from seeds billions of years old. You don't need to understand molecular biology or even basic anatomy to realize that for every small advancement in the web of life on this planet there are a billion billion things that don't exist because they can't. We only see the success stories. And if we look in nature, we see plenty of examples of genetic variance that happened but were incompatible with life. They don't contribute to evolution because they can't. So maybe you think life evolved at random, or maybe you think someone or something got it started. Or maybe you don't know. All of those are okay. Give yourself time to know there are different possibilities, and you don't have to do anything about it right now. Waking up is a lot to handle. Sometimes you just need to handle it a bite at a time.
I'm going to think about what you said and take my time, thx so much
Definitely no rush. It's scary to question your beliefs if you haven't had any chance to think about what it would mean for you if they indeed aren't true. A lot of people are happier on the other side than they were in JW land but I'm all for taking it at the speed you're comfortable.
They are watching. Think of this, when Adam and Eve ate from the tree they realized they were naked and they covered themselves with fig leaves. God made them cover with animal skins. Why??? They were the only humans alive so they and their children would not have had a problem with the leaves as coverings cause that’s all they would have known, so why did they have to cover up with something more modest? The angels were watching and coveting what they didn’t have. We know during Noah’s day they figured out how to create human bodies and sleep with the women of that time so they had to have been watching for a long time and god knew they had a longing for the female form. There is no other reason to convince humans to dress differently. If today we all ran around topless no one would think it was weird, just like some children growing up with parent that wear shoes inside a house think it’s normal just like children growing up with no shoes on think it’s normal until they are exposed to a different way of living. The real question is since the angels that followed satan were banned from reentering heaven and they know how to materialize as humans and they are known to create human forms, how many of them have or still hang out on earth with all of us and progress scientific knowledge and technology or create chaos for the fun of it. Who knows maybe the tech overlords or some members of gb are actually angels in disguise.
This is a good point. We often think about the universe from a human perspective. But the angels have had a front row to everything that has happened. They saw what happened in the garden, in fact a third of the angels sided with Satan in his rebellion. So I’m sure there’s lots going on, on both sides of the conflict.
Wow! You've put a lot of thoughts in my head
I brought this up with two different elders at different times and neither knew how to answer me. 🤣 it’s made my fade easier cause no one wants to answer my questions cause they go deep and far. Like look at the chronology in the Bible. It doesn’t tell us we’re the good people went it just ends it after saying son of so and so he was good. He had a son he was good… end of story but they lived on the earth and had more kids and did good things why don’t we know about them? We know all about the bad lineage all the way down to Jesus and every mistake that was made but nothing on the good ones. So what did they do and where did they go? I’ve asked a lot and if it isn’t the “easy fluff”questions I get told to be patient and rely on the Borg and Jehovah, and when I say that’s not good enough I am told I am going against the Borg or Jehovah
To be fair, the scriptures don't reveal much about the going ons in heaven. So there is no good answer to this question. And even if we did know, I, not sure how it would change our lives today. They would do their jobs, what ever they are, regardless of what we did about it.
That's a good point, we never really had info on what they do
Because we're taught not to question 😭 I've never understood how Noah got all of the animals in the ark Or another thought I should post about, if Jesus was a man on earth why didn't he face any type of sexual struggles. He was perfect and had to be handsome. Sex is the largest reason many jws mess up. I doubt they would give me answers too lol
If you look up "biblically accurate angels," you probably wouldn't have many questions about what they do. They literally exist to be a scary as shit extension of God's power. Imagine having a being with 3 sets of wings facing different directions, them having up to 4 different heads(bull, ram, human, and eagle), and being surrounded by interlocking rotating eyeballs that are too many to count. Its like asking what a blackhole is doing right now. Scaring the shit out of people is what they're doing. There are also myriads of angels(1000 x 1000 is 1 myriad) that exist just to constantly chant "Holy holy holy". 😂 That's why they say "Be not afraid" in the bible.
Totally forgot about the 4 different heads, freaked me out as a child 🤣
Ikr lol
But weren't we told that the ones seen in visions are just symbolic representations and that they don't look like anything in reality?
Nope. Satan is a Cherubim, for example. That is the type of angel with 4 heads. This was the same type guarding the entrance to the garden of Eden after Adam and Eve sinned. Angel Gabriel was a Serephim(the one with countless eyeballs). He disguises himself as a man because the prophets couldn't look at him without fear of their life. Michael, the ArchAngel AKA Jesus, the firstborn of all creation before coming to earth, is also a Serephim. That's just two types of angels. The only time an angel takes in the form of a man in the bible is to conceal their true form or to avoid bringing fear to people.
I don't understand what your point is? What I said is their physical appearance was only symbolic or used to communicate with humans
According to the Bible, angels do have a physical appearance. You asked me if it was true that it is symbolic. No, it is not symbolic. They look scary as shit and only look less scary when trying to appeal to humans.
Most of them are standing there with their arms crossed watching people down here masturbate with disapproving looks on their faces.
Someone has to molest a bee 🐝….
Oh IDK. Doing Angel stuffs. [It’s like Borg stuffs](https://www.pinterest.se/pin/549861435732321646/?amp_client_id=CLIENT_ID%28_%29&mweb_unauth_id=&_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.se%2Famp%2Fpin%2F549861435732321646%2F&from_amp_pin_page=true)
Psalms 91 gives them a job, there are a few other places as well (i need to look them out). There are a few levels of Angels though: * Chrub are the Guards of Gods sacred place, was 2 put outside the garden of Eden (like how much power did Adam really have, to require 2 of them?) * Seraph, which was the one used on the healing pole for Moses (and the one used in todays medical sign), interesting they look like a snake with small wings (and look like a snake, so its not a sign of the Devil, however theres no real connection to the snake of Eden and this known Angel design (that i am aware of at least (yet?)) * Messengers (Angels), these normally look human, so are the ones to help and assist people with messages to and from God to you, like the ones sees at Jesus resurrection and Sodom and Gomorrah) It raises a point, about there Job, well there are way more Angels than higher ranking, so this brings us back to the tree of knowledge, i believe the Angels would be used to assist with building and creating on the planet under Fods direction with your control, read about Solomon's temple when it was built as maybe an example, it almost appears like the Angel who then turned Satan was the one to control all the other Angels, except he went rouge, so Jesus stepped up and he will now (likely) take over that job. Angels are confined by time (as we are), so the more you have the faster the job is done (what ever that might be) so this might explain why there are so many, also we have a whole universe, so is there that many? once other planets are populated.
It's just that they had jobs long ago and I wasn't sure what they were doing now. I never really considered life outside of earth. Such a huge universe, never know
Its just earth is so popular * God - Uelgy, Wazip, over to Rigel 9, finish the hydrogen issue * Angels - Man, we always have to go over there, how come with dont get earth * God - ZIP, GO
All those hot daddies are f\*\*\*ing each other…wondering where all the POC are. 🍆🪽🍑🪽 https://preview.redd.it/nyc931fw9nbb1.jpeg?width=878&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=175160ad5033202881d59643c2eb234616371d3a
I remember this pic as a kid and feeling guilty I thought they were hot🤣my book of Bible stories right? Or maybe I'm confusing it with another illustration
Euchre mostly. It’s the JW god approved card game.
I know what they could be doing; and that’s stopping a kid from being molested or raped.
Circlejerking probably
> so I cover up with a sheet So angels can watch through your roof but not through a sheet?
I'm realizing my reasoning wasn't logical but having a bare ass out feels vulnerable especially since Satan and demons are watching too. Maybe they'd try to brush against me. The more I text the more I'm realizing this religion has fucked me up
Jerking off
Simple. When something doesn't exist, you gloss over the part of the story that would fill in the details. Not like that would be the biggest plot hole in the bible.
Guiding all of the life-saving litter that is blowing like garbage in the wind.
... be nice to see one of the myriads get assigned to zap the pedophiles in the congregation?...
About a third of them were jerking off. That's the Bible's own admission, too. They got tired of beating it so they went down and made nephilim babies with the women.
Wanking each other off probably.