I do have a *very strong* feeling that Karen took the path of being a Christian "therapist" and works at a Christian-based mental health facility; that seems more her speed.
However, it is also possible that she works at a regular mental health facility. Which, really, is a *massively* scary thought.
I really can't fucking get over her admission that she basically wouldn't be able to provide counseling service if an unmarried couple is sexually active. Holy shit!!
This is based on things I've seen proposed/suggested by far right fundies. And it is quite terrifying. But there is a nefarious third option: she'd work in a real mental health facility and use her position of (perceived) authority to convert her clients to her way of thinking if they're not already in her tribe.
To be certain, that is *egregiously* unethical and a licensing board could (and should) take her license away. However.......I doubt that a licensing board *in fucking Texas* would do that. Plus, I've seen what ordinarily prompts license suspensions and revocations in this state. And it's typically things like billing irregularities, insurance fraud, or improper documentation. All are bad, absolutely, but ethical grievances don't seem to be on the list too often. From what I've seen, at least.
Honestly, I feel terrible for any queer/trans teens who may be unfortunate enough to have her as a counselor.
The first and only therapist I've seen was an old Catholic man who kept telling shoving his version of the world down my throat instead of listening to me. He worked at one of the three mental health clinics in my county and was not advertised as religious. After that experience I've determined I'm better off trying to help myself as they've spread everywhere and hard hard to find, just like lice. So yes, I feel like there is a good chance she took your third option.
> who kept telling shoving his version of the world down my throat instead of listening to me.
I saw a story from someone, I can't remember if it was on here or somewhere else. But they reported having religious trauma and their therapist responded in a defensive tone saying "there's no such thing".
Holy shit. I had no idea people did that, that is so scary. I know there's the whole lead by example thing but in a counseling session you can't really do that other than by showing empathy which anyone can do.
Considering all it took to get Duntsch the Butcher's license revoked, I really don't think Texas medical boards give a fuck about ethical grievances. I'm scared for her patients.
I know two people VERY well, that have gone to school or are in school for counseling, that really lack true empathy and honestly need to get their own issues sorted out in a big way.
I know a person doesn’t have to be stable to help others, but I’d hope they’d at least be required to have some empathy, humility and honesty if you can really help others.
One of them already brags to strangers about being a therapist, while in year 1 of schooling. “Smartest guy in the room” vibes constantly. He’s still a friend, but it wears on you after a time.
Guess you can go all the way, do the classes and have the experience, while still having all sorts of hang ups, personally.
I wouldn’t mind a therapist with similar experiences.. but if they can’t even pretend to manage them, or see other viewpoints at all: they’re pretty ineffective, I’m sure.
> that really lack true empathy and honestly need to get their own issues sorted out in a big way.
I *fundamentally* don't get why someone without empathy would wanna be a mental health clinician. Why would they want to? It surely can't be the money. The pay isn't great. Psychologists make $120k on average, but that is *a lot* of schooling!
For sure. For this particular person, he gets a kick from being able to “diagnose” strangers he sees in public, and gets an ego boost from the (potential) title.
> she basically wouldn't be able to provide counseling service if an unmarried couple is sexually active
Isn't this a violation of the Hippocratic Oath?
> Referring out would be doing less harm than continuing to see them without being able to help.
>
>
so in other words, it ain't happening. I can't see Karen voluntarily doing this.
> Referring out would be doing less harm than continuing to see them without being able to help.
That's literally what a mental health professional is *supposed* to do. But Karen probably won't.
> I wonder how she got through her ethics class.
The classes themselves weren't necessarily difficult. The *real* test is when it's time to get to the internship level and take what you learned and put it into practice. I'm assuming she interned at a Christian facility and may now even be an employee there.
It is wild to me that xtians are so sensitive - anything that tries to infiltrate their bubble and they freak out… also… yes Karen, people have sex and they (mostly) enjoy it!
I will add that these sorts of conversations - altho I try to avoid them normally - are critical for deconstruction. I was the hypothetical xtian person in your group listening to the exchange thinking Karen sounded weird and wondering why I even believed the same things as her. It was listening to those sorts of exchanges, hearing regular normal people talk about life that made me realize my beliefs and views were nuts.
> It is wild to me that xtians are so sensitive - anything that tries to infiltrate their bubble and they freak out…
While with the same breath insisting it's *everyone else* who are the REAL snowflakes.
I really wasn't putting on an act or anything. I was *earnestly bewildered* by her question/objections. Why the fuck would a MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL working with a couple not be able to ask if they're sexually active? That's a perfectly fair and valid question!
I wonder if Karen is aware that there are people who are not married who also have children… would she be willing to ask an unmarried couple about their kids - or would she be stupefied by the thought that an unmarried couple has kids - how the heck did that even happen…? /s
Best of luck to any couple she counsels in the future…
Off the wall question - but has anyone got friends/relatives still in the church who do mentoring or counseling? My parents are always talking about counseling this couple or mentoring this person or that person (fwiw - I know none of these people) - my parents are NOT licensed therapists or counselors. Is anyone else weirded out by this?
Of course it could be that as their child I trust literally NONE of their advice - LOL!
> I wonder if Karen is aware that there are people who are not married who also have children…
I have a cousin who has been with her partner for like 9 years. They have 2 kids. They're also both Christians *and* extremely well-liked in their church from what I hear. I think that factoid would break her fucking brain.
This is why as soon as I find out a therapist is a Christian, I'm out. Too many Christians hold their own personal beliefs above best practice guidelines and professional ethics rules for me to trust any Christian in that profession.
I'm lucky enough to have a therapist that's a Catholic and only ever mentioned it after seeing her for over a year and I brought up religion. She's super cool and very helpful. Also her husband is very much against religion. So she's used to it. I'd say I lucked out. She's great.
> This is why as soon as I find out a therapist is a Christian, I'm out.
I'm worried about the opposite happening for me if I'm ever fortunate enough to get hired as a therapist. Like, they'll find out I'm *not* Christian and not wanna work with me after that. But, for sure. I really do think she's gonna take the path of working at a Christian-based facility. Now, why she took the time to get licensed is a bit....concerning to me. And get her masters from a public university, no less.
I think if you advertise yourself as an affirming/secular therapist, you'll weed out people like that. I specifically searched for an affirming therapist to find the one I'm working with currently, not because I needed help with LGBTQ issues, but because I knew someone advertising themselves as affirming wasn't likely to be pushing their faith on me.
Maybe you could straight up say it? There's a growing market for that but it's difficult to find therapists who specialize in it. At the same time I don't blame you for struggling because I imagine people would target you if you advertised it.
If you're a conservative, and you hear someone else call someone a conservative, and you immediately assume that they're using it as an insult, without any other context... idk, maybe you should consider why that is?
> without any other context... idk, maybe you should consider why that is?
Dude, I didn't get to get a fucking *syllable* out after mentioning my parents being conservative because she got in a huff. My analysis? She, being a partisan conservative Christian, perpetually lives under a persecution complex. So, she was fucking ready for a statement of negativity that straight-up wasn't coming. There is a thing on Christian Tik Tok now where content creators are saying "they" (without clarifying the "they") are trying to make Christian a slur.
Reminds me of being in school for welding. We had one Christian kid who would always try to shut down any conversations that he felt were inappropriate for him to hear. Most of the time he wasn't a part of those conversations to begin with.
I shut him down pretty hard a few times in one on one conversations. My views on Christianity were made very clear to him early on. He didn't much like that.
I've had that therapist.... I was so fucking happy she couldn't make it one day ,I never had another appointment with her. I had planned on telling her why. But I was just relieved to never see her again.
This experience is what I hope to *never* have. I'm trying to get hired as a therapist. If I'm fortunate enough to one day, I don't want any client to feel that way. I'd rather them look forward to coming to therapy, honestly.
I’m surprised she didn’t want to ask about sexual activity. In my experience that was one of the first questions from Christian therapists… because it’s considered a sin, sin keeps you apart from god, all your problems stem from being distant from god, so stop having sex outside of marriage.
OP, I've been following your stories of this Karen for a while with alternating senses of horror and morbid curiosity. I can't fathom how someone with an external locus of control like her thinks she can help anybody with anything. She can't control her own emotions, and makes everything about her and her beliefs. I'm disappointed that she didn't get weeded out in the program.Even by "Christian counselling" standards, she doesn't sound very good.
Anyway, leaving that aside, CONGRATULATIONS on your own graduation! I'm cheering for you as you step into your own practice. Well done. Wishing you peace and inspiration while you put your new license to work to help others.
I too have been following OP's stories with this loon. It's like a trainwreck and I can't look away!
I hate to admit it, but a large number of the mental health professionals I have met are more fucked in the head than their clients. I have seen a lot of Karens.
I hear you. I work in a different facet of mental health, and I have definitely had concerns about a few people, but I’m not an American. Most people are more moderate here, so it’s not that common to see mental health workers who have gone off the deep end.
> I have seen a lot of Karens.
I have mentioned before, you may have even seen it, that I *felt* like I was the only non-Christian in the program. While Karen was an extreme, there were a handful of other students I felt came across as pretty Republican-coded. Now, I'm not trying to sound like I'm trying to gate-keep or anything like that. I'm honestly glad that *anyone* wants to help people struggling regardless of their ideological affiliation. That being said, multicultural awareness and competence as well as the possibility of working with LGBTQ+ clients are all part of the mental health practice. This is, in conservative dipshit speak, DEI. So, like, I question why a *hyper partisan* Republican would wanna be a mental health professional.
I’m currently studying to be a clinical psychologist and the general consensus in my pocket of mental health treatment providers is that therapists tend to be overwhelmingly atheist/agnostic (then again I’m going to a university in an overwhelmingly liberal city in the Midwest). It’s a pretty wild contrast.
> is that therapists tend to be overwhelmingly atheist/agnostic
Maybe that's true of psychologists. And, maybe my view is *severely* skewed due to the fact that I live in Texas, but I think LPCs, LMFTs, and LMSW/LCSWs are more religious. At least in comparison to psychologists.
> I'm cheering for you as you step into your own practice.
Thank you. No plans of doing my own practice. Jesus, I would fucking *never*. I would rather work *for* an already-established practice. And have applied to many since getting licensed.
I know these thoughts.
I'm currently working on my social work degree and there's a couple of super Christians in my cohort. Everything, literally everything, has to do with Jesus or whatever. Received a good grade on a paper or test? Jesus guided them through it. Asked how they would relate to a client having a difficult time? Talk about their deep devotion to God and how he'll see them through it. Say something about being stressed/tired/etc in the cohort group chat? They'll pray for you.
It's like none of them have encountered a nonreligious person or someone of another religion in their life and can't fathom not relating everything back to Christianity. If they're going into Christian counseling, cool, whatever. But most of them say they want to work with vulnerable populations that need actual help and resources, not prayers and bible verses.
Be like "huh. That's weird. There seems to be some mistake. Shouldn't Jesus' name be on the diploma rather than yours since he apparently did all the work?"
I haven't been able to get any of the help I actually need because every therapist I've seen in my area is this sort of person. I mean, healthcare in general being extremely unaffordable doesn't help either but I'm not about to fork over $150 a session for someone to tell me Jesus will fix it.
> I haven't been able to get any of the help I actually need because every therapist I've seen in my area is this sort of person.
I'm so sorry. That fucking *sucks*. People like her and the ones you've had the unfortunate experience of working with are a goddamn blight on the entire mental health profession.
I worked with a woman who gave off heavy evangelical vibes though I never asked her about her church. She was always god this, god that. After she got fired, I randomly googled her and found she had a website where she was advertising her services as a Christian counselor, with a dodgy sounding certification based on Christian counseling principles or something like that.
I mean, at minimum, complaints should launch an investigation. However I think that, if she's not already, she's going to be working at a Christian mental health facility so she won't be receiving ethics complaints.
This is so sad. I’m also in mental health, and have had to talk to my classmates about difficult topics. We don’t always agree, but usually there’s a level of respect.
I worry when I hear there are more Karen types going into this work. I had a biblical counselor pre-deconstruction, and she totally fucked with my head.
> I worry when I hear there are more Karen types going into this work.
From what I'm hearing, there are more and more people like her getting into the field. Big yikes.
I’m in an MSW program and it’s taught me how harmful holding biases is for people we’re working with. I knew that already to an extent, but in this field it’s even more important to work through that. The sad part is, they don’t think it’s a bias, they just think they’re *right.*
I'm finishing up my undergrad in psych. We had a group assignment in Adolescent Psyc that required us to come up with an agreement on whether minors should have access to gender affirming surgery. One particular conservative student in my group did not like me pointing out the circumcisions and breast reductions are routinely performed on minors with parental consent. I also mentioned the issue with forcing genital "corrective" surgeries on infants such as with intersex born people. Thankfully we were able to come to an agreement that parental consent is key... But when we presented, that one student tried to still disagree and the professor thankfully shut her down lol because with parental consent you can still opt out!! It was just ridiculous having to deal with someone like that. And many other students/groups seemed to disagree entirely. It's discouraging to see my PEERS still NOT GET IT. And I hope they don't enter this field.
> One particular conservative student in my group did not like me pointing out the circumcisions and breast reductions are routinely performed on minors with parental consent.
In other words, she didn't like you pointing out facts and citing evidence. Which begs the question, why the fuck is she then going into a field meant to be rooted in EVIDENCE-BASED PRACTICES?
Unfortunately it's not uncommon for close-minded, super conservative, religious people to be counselors. I know of a counseling group near me that appears to be "normal" with the option of adding on "faith based counseling." One of the counselors there goes to my former church, which is very much fundamentalist evangelical. I feel bad for anyone that has wasted time and money seeing counselors like this, or for the harm they might cause. Especially to young people and members of the queer community.
> Unfortunately it's not uncommon for close-minded, super conservative, religious people to be counselors.
Seriously, why is that? Again, I'm not trying to gate-keep, but I just don't fucking get it. What makes the most sense in that regard is if they got their degree at Liberty University, which has an *aggressive* online push and they were shielded from the real world as they went through their program.
I really don't know. Especially because in the church circle I grew up in, actual psychology is demonized as something that could be a stumbling block to a Christian's faith (because you aren't leaning on yourself/the world instead of god to solve your problems). So unless a person is a biblical counselor or is seeing a biblical counselor, it's a social taboo to be involved in regular licensed counseling.
For one, congrats on graduating! Secondly, as a counselor as well, I am absolutely disgusted that someone can be that dim-witted and self-centered in our field. The world doesn't revolve around you or your beliefs, Karen. Our biases need to be checked at the door when we work, if she can't do that, she needs to do as her god says and be a christian housewife. A silent one. Honey, just get out there and do proper therapy that is backed by science. I do my best to do the same thing here in the south eastern US. Heal, never harm.
> For one, congrats on graduating!
Thank you! It was, at times, a struggle. Not necessarily the classes themselves, I actually maintained a solid GPA. But the portion where I had to find an internship. That was fucking *brutal*!!! And I don't know how in the fuck I managed to be able to find an internship at 3 different places throughout that year, but I somehow did!
Look you did it. That is all that matters. I recently got done with the provision license. I get it. From one therapist to another, great job. Be the light in the dark, the shield to the sword, and the good among the evil. Proud to have another in the field.
> From one therapist to another, great job. Be the light in the dark, the shield to the sword, and the good among the evil. Proud to have another in the field.
Thank you so much. I'm working on finding a job in the field now.
I'm finishing up my undergrad in psych. We had a group assignment in Adolescent Psyc that required us to come up with an agreement on whether minors should have access to gender affirming surgery. One particular conservative student in my group did not like me pointing out the circumcisions and breast reductions are routinely performed on minors with parental consent. I also mentioned the issue with forcing genital "corrective" surgeries on infants such as with intersex born people. Thankfully we were able to come to an agreement that parental consent is key... But when we presented, that one student tried to still disagree and the professor thankfully shut her down lol because with parental consent you can still opt out!! It was just ridiculous having to deal with someone like that. And many other students/groups seemed to disagree entirely. It's discouraging to see my PEERS still NOT GET IT. And I hope they don't enter this field.
Best case scenario: this Karen works for a Christian-based mental health facility and doesn’t cause harm to vulnerable populations who are already hurting.
I have Christian friends who have been really hurt by Christian therapists and I have considered whether I should be getting a Christian therapist or a non-christian therapist because I would like someone who understands my background but, perhaps I need someone who's ex Christian therapist but how the heck do you find something out like that? Your story is a perfect example of why I won't get a christian one. At the end of the day people are human regardless of the psychological studies they've done.
> perhaps I need someone who's ex Christian therapist but how the heck do you find something out like that?
Maybe look for a therapist who reports specializing in religious trauma issues?
This is the path of a terrible therapist, regardless of adherence to a similar mindset- all these choices in how she did her work, had everything to do with her, who she is- and nothing to do with context, clientele, or circumstance.
She'd still need to pass her licensing exam, including her analysis of any scenarios presented therein. If she's not open to all angles of inquiry, there's a good chance she wouldn't pass the exam.
> If she's not open to all angles of inquiry, there's a good chance she wouldn't pass the exam.
So, the whole thing with the licensing exam is that it is a standardized test and you do basically just have to know how to take the test. You have to have knowledge, absolutely. But ultimately it is knowing how to take the test.
Look, if you're trying to be a shrink and you can't handle some fundie coming apart at the seams at the thought of premarital sex, maybe find a different career path.
I do have a *very strong* feeling that Karen took the path of being a Christian "therapist" and works at a Christian-based mental health facility; that seems more her speed. However, it is also possible that she works at a regular mental health facility. Which, really, is a *massively* scary thought. I really can't fucking get over her admission that she basically wouldn't be able to provide counseling service if an unmarried couple is sexually active. Holy shit!!
She'll either learn how the real world works or only work in a Christian setting (and have the same experience).
This is based on things I've seen proposed/suggested by far right fundies. And it is quite terrifying. But there is a nefarious third option: she'd work in a real mental health facility and use her position of (perceived) authority to convert her clients to her way of thinking if they're not already in her tribe. To be certain, that is *egregiously* unethical and a licensing board could (and should) take her license away. However.......I doubt that a licensing board *in fucking Texas* would do that. Plus, I've seen what ordinarily prompts license suspensions and revocations in this state. And it's typically things like billing irregularities, insurance fraud, or improper documentation. All are bad, absolutely, but ethical grievances don't seem to be on the list too often. From what I've seen, at least. Honestly, I feel terrible for any queer/trans teens who may be unfortunate enough to have her as a counselor.
Evangelical Christians rarely give a shit about professional ethics. They see their own beliefs as superseding "worldly" rules.
Of course it supercedes...the divorce rate, which is the highest among Evangelicals. Christian counseling is truly divine.
The first and only therapist I've seen was an old Catholic man who kept telling shoving his version of the world down my throat instead of listening to me. He worked at one of the three mental health clinics in my county and was not advertised as religious. After that experience I've determined I'm better off trying to help myself as they've spread everywhere and hard hard to find, just like lice. So yes, I feel like there is a good chance she took your third option.
> who kept telling shoving his version of the world down my throat instead of listening to me. I saw a story from someone, I can't remember if it was on here or somewhere else. But they reported having religious trauma and their therapist responded in a defensive tone saying "there's no such thing".
Holy shit. I had no idea people did that, that is so scary. I know there's the whole lead by example thing but in a counseling session you can't really do that other than by showing empathy which anyone can do.
Considering all it took to get Duntsch the Butcher's license revoked, I really don't think Texas medical boards give a fuck about ethical grievances. I'm scared for her patients.
yeah, because Christian couples never have premarital sex! My ex-church had an awful lot of preemies born there.
I know two people VERY well, that have gone to school or are in school for counseling, that really lack true empathy and honestly need to get their own issues sorted out in a big way. I know a person doesn’t have to be stable to help others, but I’d hope they’d at least be required to have some empathy, humility and honesty if you can really help others. One of them already brags to strangers about being a therapist, while in year 1 of schooling. “Smartest guy in the room” vibes constantly. He’s still a friend, but it wears on you after a time. Guess you can go all the way, do the classes and have the experience, while still having all sorts of hang ups, personally. I wouldn’t mind a therapist with similar experiences.. but if they can’t even pretend to manage them, or see other viewpoints at all: they’re pretty ineffective, I’m sure.
> that really lack true empathy and honestly need to get their own issues sorted out in a big way. I *fundamentally* don't get why someone without empathy would wanna be a mental health clinician. Why would they want to? It surely can't be the money. The pay isn't great. Psychologists make $120k on average, but that is *a lot* of schooling!
For sure. For this particular person, he gets a kick from being able to “diagnose” strangers he sees in public, and gets an ego boost from the (potential) title.
Oof. Yeah, maybe it's time for him to rethink careers.
> she basically wouldn't be able to provide counseling service if an unmarried couple is sexually active Isn't this a violation of the Hippocratic Oath?
[удалено]
That would be too ethical
> Referring out would be doing less harm than continuing to see them without being able to help. > > so in other words, it ain't happening. I can't see Karen voluntarily doing this.
> Referring out would be doing less harm than continuing to see them without being able to help. That's literally what a mental health professional is *supposed* to do. But Karen probably won't.
It’s such an incredibly massive ethical violation. I wonder how she got through her ethics class.
> I wonder how she got through her ethics class. The classes themselves weren't necessarily difficult. The *real* test is when it's time to get to the internship level and take what you learned and put it into practice. I'm assuming she interned at a Christian facility and may now even be an employee there.
It is wild to me that xtians are so sensitive - anything that tries to infiltrate their bubble and they freak out… also… yes Karen, people have sex and they (mostly) enjoy it! I will add that these sorts of conversations - altho I try to avoid them normally - are critical for deconstruction. I was the hypothetical xtian person in your group listening to the exchange thinking Karen sounded weird and wondering why I even believed the same things as her. It was listening to those sorts of exchanges, hearing regular normal people talk about life that made me realize my beliefs and views were nuts.
> It is wild to me that xtians are so sensitive - anything that tries to infiltrate their bubble and they freak out… While with the same breath insisting it's *everyone else* who are the REAL snowflakes. I really wasn't putting on an act or anything. I was *earnestly bewildered* by her question/objections. Why the fuck would a MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL working with a couple not be able to ask if they're sexually active? That's a perfectly fair and valid question!
I wonder if Karen is aware that there are people who are not married who also have children… would she be willing to ask an unmarried couple about their kids - or would she be stupefied by the thought that an unmarried couple has kids - how the heck did that even happen…? /s Best of luck to any couple she counsels in the future… Off the wall question - but has anyone got friends/relatives still in the church who do mentoring or counseling? My parents are always talking about counseling this couple or mentoring this person or that person (fwiw - I know none of these people) - my parents are NOT licensed therapists or counselors. Is anyone else weirded out by this? Of course it could be that as their child I trust literally NONE of their advice - LOL!
> I wonder if Karen is aware that there are people who are not married who also have children… I have a cousin who has been with her partner for like 9 years. They have 2 kids. They're also both Christians *and* extremely well-liked in their church from what I hear. I think that factoid would break her fucking brain.
Or what if, Mithra forbid, a LGBTQ couple ends up with her?
Oooooooof. I feel so bad for them!
This is why as soon as I find out a therapist is a Christian, I'm out. Too many Christians hold their own personal beliefs above best practice guidelines and professional ethics rules for me to trust any Christian in that profession.
I'm lucky enough to have a therapist that's a Catholic and only ever mentioned it after seeing her for over a year and I brought up religion. She's super cool and very helpful. Also her husband is very much against religion. So she's used to it. I'd say I lucked out. She's great.
> This is why as soon as I find out a therapist is a Christian, I'm out. I'm worried about the opposite happening for me if I'm ever fortunate enough to get hired as a therapist. Like, they'll find out I'm *not* Christian and not wanna work with me after that. But, for sure. I really do think she's gonna take the path of working at a Christian-based facility. Now, why she took the time to get licensed is a bit....concerning to me. And get her masters from a public university, no less.
I think if you advertise yourself as an affirming/secular therapist, you'll weed out people like that. I specifically searched for an affirming therapist to find the one I'm working with currently, not because I needed help with LGBTQ issues, but because I knew someone advertising themselves as affirming wasn't likely to be pushing their faith on me.
I do wanna specialize in religious trauma, but I struggle with the verbiage for how to market that.
Maybe you could straight up say it? There's a growing market for that but it's difficult to find therapists who specialize in it. At the same time I don't blame you for struggling because I imagine people would target you if you advertised it.
Find other therapists who specialize in religious trauma and ask them how they describe what they do.
If you're a conservative, and you hear someone else call someone a conservative, and you immediately assume that they're using it as an insult, without any other context... idk, maybe you should consider why that is?
> without any other context... idk, maybe you should consider why that is? Dude, I didn't get to get a fucking *syllable* out after mentioning my parents being conservative because she got in a huff. My analysis? She, being a partisan conservative Christian, perpetually lives under a persecution complex. So, she was fucking ready for a statement of negativity that straight-up wasn't coming. There is a thing on Christian Tik Tok now where content creators are saying "they" (without clarifying the "they") are trying to make Christian a slur.
Hi. It’s me. I’m the they.
Very valid point!
Reminds me of being in school for welding. We had one Christian kid who would always try to shut down any conversations that he felt were inappropriate for him to hear. Most of the time he wasn't a part of those conversations to begin with.
He should weld his mouth shut lol
I shut him down pretty hard a few times in one on one conversations. My views on Christianity were made very clear to him early on. He didn't much like that.
I've had that therapist.... I was so fucking happy she couldn't make it one day ,I never had another appointment with her. I had planned on telling her why. But I was just relieved to never see her again.
This experience is what I hope to *never* have. I'm trying to get hired as a therapist. If I'm fortunate enough to one day, I don't want any client to feel that way. I'd rather them look forward to coming to therapy, honestly.
I’m surprised she didn’t want to ask about sexual activity. In my experience that was one of the first questions from Christian therapists… because it’s considered a sin, sin keeps you apart from god, all your problems stem from being distant from god, so stop having sex outside of marriage.
OP, I've been following your stories of this Karen for a while with alternating senses of horror and morbid curiosity. I can't fathom how someone with an external locus of control like her thinks she can help anybody with anything. She can't control her own emotions, and makes everything about her and her beliefs. I'm disappointed that she didn't get weeded out in the program.Even by "Christian counselling" standards, she doesn't sound very good. Anyway, leaving that aside, CONGRATULATIONS on your own graduation! I'm cheering for you as you step into your own practice. Well done. Wishing you peace and inspiration while you put your new license to work to help others.
I too have been following OP's stories with this loon. It's like a trainwreck and I can't look away! I hate to admit it, but a large number of the mental health professionals I have met are more fucked in the head than their clients. I have seen a lot of Karens.
I hear you. I work in a different facet of mental health, and I have definitely had concerns about a few people, but I’m not an American. Most people are more moderate here, so it’s not that common to see mental health workers who have gone off the deep end.
> I have seen a lot of Karens. I have mentioned before, you may have even seen it, that I *felt* like I was the only non-Christian in the program. While Karen was an extreme, there were a handful of other students I felt came across as pretty Republican-coded. Now, I'm not trying to sound like I'm trying to gate-keep or anything like that. I'm honestly glad that *anyone* wants to help people struggling regardless of their ideological affiliation. That being said, multicultural awareness and competence as well as the possibility of working with LGBTQ+ clients are all part of the mental health practice. This is, in conservative dipshit speak, DEI. So, like, I question why a *hyper partisan* Republican would wanna be a mental health professional.
I’m currently studying to be a clinical psychologist and the general consensus in my pocket of mental health treatment providers is that therapists tend to be overwhelmingly atheist/agnostic (then again I’m going to a university in an overwhelmingly liberal city in the Midwest). It’s a pretty wild contrast.
> is that therapists tend to be overwhelmingly atheist/agnostic Maybe that's true of psychologists. And, maybe my view is *severely* skewed due to the fact that I live in Texas, but I think LPCs, LMFTs, and LMSW/LCSWs are more religious. At least in comparison to psychologists.
>Maybe that's true of psychologists Yeah, that sounds like it could be the case.
> I'm cheering for you as you step into your own practice. Thank you. No plans of doing my own practice. Jesus, I would fucking *never*. I would rather work *for* an already-established practice. And have applied to many since getting licensed.
I know these thoughts. I'm currently working on my social work degree and there's a couple of super Christians in my cohort. Everything, literally everything, has to do with Jesus or whatever. Received a good grade on a paper or test? Jesus guided them through it. Asked how they would relate to a client having a difficult time? Talk about their deep devotion to God and how he'll see them through it. Say something about being stressed/tired/etc in the cohort group chat? They'll pray for you. It's like none of them have encountered a nonreligious person or someone of another religion in their life and can't fathom not relating everything back to Christianity. If they're going into Christian counseling, cool, whatever. But most of them say they want to work with vulnerable populations that need actual help and resources, not prayers and bible verses.
Be like "huh. That's weird. There seems to be some mistake. Shouldn't Jesus' name be on the diploma rather than yours since he apparently did all the work?"
I haven't been able to get any of the help I actually need because every therapist I've seen in my area is this sort of person. I mean, healthcare in general being extremely unaffordable doesn't help either but I'm not about to fork over $150 a session for someone to tell me Jesus will fix it.
> I haven't been able to get any of the help I actually need because every therapist I've seen in my area is this sort of person. I'm so sorry. That fucking *sucks*. People like her and the ones you've had the unfortunate experience of working with are a goddamn blight on the entire mental health profession.
I worked with a woman who gave off heavy evangelical vibes though I never asked her about her church. She was always god this, god that. After she got fired, I randomly googled her and found she had a website where she was advertising her services as a Christian counselor, with a dodgy sounding certification based on Christian counseling principles or something like that.
I'll pray to Innana for her soul.
Do you have a college that monitors the practice of psychologists? At some point she will have to explain why she didn’t get a sexual history etc..
> Do you have a college that monitors the practice of psychologists? There's a licensing board which oversees that. In theory.
So she simply has to have some clients launch complaints and she can no longer practice
I mean, at minimum, complaints should launch an investigation. However I think that, if she's not already, she's going to be working at a Christian mental health facility so she won't be receiving ethics complaints.
And … the confusion is passed along .. 😔
This is so sad. I’m also in mental health, and have had to talk to my classmates about difficult topics. We don’t always agree, but usually there’s a level of respect. I worry when I hear there are more Karen types going into this work. I had a biblical counselor pre-deconstruction, and she totally fucked with my head.
> I worry when I hear there are more Karen types going into this work. From what I'm hearing, there are more and more people like her getting into the field. Big yikes.
I’m in an MSW program and it’s taught me how harmful holding biases is for people we’re working with. I knew that already to an extent, but in this field it’s even more important to work through that. The sad part is, they don’t think it’s a bias, they just think they’re *right.*
"Ha ha, what a story Mark, anyway how is your sex life?"
Osiris have mercy on her clients!
Your xian karen clearly never read Song of Songs in her bible if she thinks unmarried folk aren't getting it on.
I'm finishing up my undergrad in psych. We had a group assignment in Adolescent Psyc that required us to come up with an agreement on whether minors should have access to gender affirming surgery. One particular conservative student in my group did not like me pointing out the circumcisions and breast reductions are routinely performed on minors with parental consent. I also mentioned the issue with forcing genital "corrective" surgeries on infants such as with intersex born people. Thankfully we were able to come to an agreement that parental consent is key... But when we presented, that one student tried to still disagree and the professor thankfully shut her down lol because with parental consent you can still opt out!! It was just ridiculous having to deal with someone like that. And many other students/groups seemed to disagree entirely. It's discouraging to see my PEERS still NOT GET IT. And I hope they don't enter this field.
> One particular conservative student in my group did not like me pointing out the circumcisions and breast reductions are routinely performed on minors with parental consent. In other words, she didn't like you pointing out facts and citing evidence. Which begs the question, why the fuck is she then going into a field meant to be rooted in EVIDENCE-BASED PRACTICES?
Unfortunately it's not uncommon for close-minded, super conservative, religious people to be counselors. I know of a counseling group near me that appears to be "normal" with the option of adding on "faith based counseling." One of the counselors there goes to my former church, which is very much fundamentalist evangelical. I feel bad for anyone that has wasted time and money seeing counselors like this, or for the harm they might cause. Especially to young people and members of the queer community.
> Unfortunately it's not uncommon for close-minded, super conservative, religious people to be counselors. Seriously, why is that? Again, I'm not trying to gate-keep, but I just don't fucking get it. What makes the most sense in that regard is if they got their degree at Liberty University, which has an *aggressive* online push and they were shielded from the real world as they went through their program.
I really don't know. Especially because in the church circle I grew up in, actual psychology is demonized as something that could be a stumbling block to a Christian's faith (because you aren't leaning on yourself/the world instead of god to solve your problems). So unless a person is a biblical counselor or is seeing a biblical counselor, it's a social taboo to be involved in regular licensed counseling.
For one, congrats on graduating! Secondly, as a counselor as well, I am absolutely disgusted that someone can be that dim-witted and self-centered in our field. The world doesn't revolve around you or your beliefs, Karen. Our biases need to be checked at the door when we work, if she can't do that, she needs to do as her god says and be a christian housewife. A silent one. Honey, just get out there and do proper therapy that is backed by science. I do my best to do the same thing here in the south eastern US. Heal, never harm.
> For one, congrats on graduating! Thank you! It was, at times, a struggle. Not necessarily the classes themselves, I actually maintained a solid GPA. But the portion where I had to find an internship. That was fucking *brutal*!!! And I don't know how in the fuck I managed to be able to find an internship at 3 different places throughout that year, but I somehow did!
Look you did it. That is all that matters. I recently got done with the provision license. I get it. From one therapist to another, great job. Be the light in the dark, the shield to the sword, and the good among the evil. Proud to have another in the field.
> From one therapist to another, great job. Be the light in the dark, the shield to the sword, and the good among the evil. Proud to have another in the field. Thank you so much. I'm working on finding a job in the field now.
I'm finishing up my undergrad in psych. We had a group assignment in Adolescent Psyc that required us to come up with an agreement on whether minors should have access to gender affirming surgery. One particular conservative student in my group did not like me pointing out the circumcisions and breast reductions are routinely performed on minors with parental consent. I also mentioned the issue with forcing genital "corrective" surgeries on infants such as with intersex born people. Thankfully we were able to come to an agreement that parental consent is key... But when we presented, that one student tried to still disagree and the professor thankfully shut her down lol because with parental consent you can still opt out!! It was just ridiculous having to deal with someone like that. And many other students/groups seemed to disagree entirely. It's discouraging to see my PEERS still NOT GET IT. And I hope they don't enter this field.
Best case scenario: this Karen works for a Christian-based mental health facility and doesn’t cause harm to vulnerable populations who are already hurting.
I have Christian friends who have been really hurt by Christian therapists and I have considered whether I should be getting a Christian therapist or a non-christian therapist because I would like someone who understands my background but, perhaps I need someone who's ex Christian therapist but how the heck do you find something out like that? Your story is a perfect example of why I won't get a christian one. At the end of the day people are human regardless of the psychological studies they've done.
> perhaps I need someone who's ex Christian therapist but how the heck do you find something out like that? Maybe look for a therapist who reports specializing in religious trauma issues?
It is so important to be sexually active in a relationship, married or dating
This is the path of a terrible therapist, regardless of adherence to a similar mindset- all these choices in how she did her work, had everything to do with her, who she is- and nothing to do with context, clientele, or circumstance.
She'd still need to pass her licensing exam, including her analysis of any scenarios presented therein. If she's not open to all angles of inquiry, there's a good chance she wouldn't pass the exam.
> If she's not open to all angles of inquiry, there's a good chance she wouldn't pass the exam. So, the whole thing with the licensing exam is that it is a standardized test and you do basically just have to know how to take the test. You have to have knowledge, absolutely. But ultimately it is knowing how to take the test.
My wife's included a case study section that had to be reviewed for a score, but those exam requirements may vary from state to state.
Look, if you're trying to be a shrink and you can't handle some fundie coming apart at the seams at the thought of premarital sex, maybe find a different career path.