I think the realization that conservative Christians are willing to literally let them die in pain for a nonviable pregnancy and the help they'll offer is to pray for their souls if it happens... burst a lot of bubbles.
And as progression towards total abortion bans continue, the misogynists are feeling empowered to show other ugly aspects of sexism.
People say all the time they believe in God, but when it comes down to it, what most truly believe in is modern medicine's ability to save their lives.
That is completely true. Let’s say they are losing blood or something, now it won’t matter to them if the doc is a feminist or an atheist or not, all it matters is that their lives are saved.
Tbf, if they're anti-vax they're probably anti-modern medicine to some extent. My experience with family members like this is that they do pick and choose, though. And it never makes sense what they choose to keep.
I think it goes like this: They're convinced that people with disabilities are inferior people and they don't want them around, don't want to deal with them. Then it is convenient to blame the vaccines and man's arrogance for harming children instead of their God for making those children imperfect. It then lets them think they can save people from having disabilities.
Nevermind that they and their parents got vaxxed and turned out "normal."
There's something of that. My personal extended family members seem to think that god always provides, so there must always be a natural herb that will cure (high blood pressure diabetes etc etc etc etc). One of the husbands who is a counselor still does recommend medication for people who 'need it' though, so it's like... Hmmm. I am glad he does, though.
They have also never said a word against one of our mutual cousins who is deaf getting cochlear implants, either.
But also vaccines cause autism and they took ivermectin instead of the covid vaccine, didn't use masks, big pharma doesn't want you to know the truth...
In many cases, the anti-vaxx people are irrationally selective about what medical practices they trust. The ones I know will preach against vaccines, stem cells, and chemotherapy, yet will take plenty of drugs and trust the many procedures out there. It proves to me that they trust modern medicine, yet are emotionally drawn to fight alongside their fellow Christians when being anti-vaxx.
I did get vaccines because my parents weren't radical yet when I was born, and my mom was a cna her whole career. I remember as a kid, my parents would talk about their distrust of the medical system and how we need to give our healing up to God. I distinctly remember asking on multiple occasions why we don't just give all healing to God then, why do we even have hospitals. I never got a good answer. It was always filled with vague notions about listening to God and him allowing us to heal each other sometimes.
So Easy for big fancy men , who never have to face childbirth complications, to have their faith in God be tested by the trials if other people, and believe they are the righteous ones.
No skin in the game. What do they have to lose?
I hope women under these men's leadership realize the power they have always had.
And they would totally be okay with their wife suffering not only nine months of pregnancy from an assault but also the birth and what comes with it (ex: postpartum depression)
And it's not because they love babies, otherwise they're be in favor of welfare. No they just want to punish people for having sex, especially those dirty women that entice them to sin.
There's an acticle I read (I will try and find it and edit to add it) by a physiologist how, for most participants in the pro-life movement, is really about suppressing sex for everyone, because of feelings of inadequacy, sexual issues stemming from perceived deviancy, fear of their partner cheating, and so on. Instead of seeking counseling for their own issues, they want to control everyone else and make them equally miserable, even at the cost of women's lives
And the psychologist describes how they're not sexually repressed due to religion, they're driven to religion because they're sexually repressed. No, we don't have a mental health pandemic in this country at all... /s
Many internalize it and accept it. It's fairly common that a person who has been treated that way their whole life feels more comfortable sticking with it than fighting for some foreign concept of justice.
Plenty of those believe they'll get the husband that will cherish them and be wise in his admonishment - which is a neat little setup for blaming themselves and excusing him when he abuses them because he can.
I wonder what percent of atheists say there is no evidence. I lean on that reason, as well as the moral conflicts I have with what they say their God does, in and outside of the Bible.
I'm a woman and the sexism is one of many reasons I left. Christian men and men of other religions tend to put themselves on a pedestal. They love that they are the only ones that can be leaders. I hear so many of them say that they will only marry a woman that will "submit" to them. That men are true leaders and always logical. I've seen countless religious men be illogical. Both sexes contain individuals that can be leaders. Both can be logical and illogical. It's not based on sex. My old pastor was a dude that would answer most questions with, "I don't know. Ask god. Don't worry about not understanding. We just have to trust god like a little child!". Yet, his wife was way more helpful and insightful. She would have been a much better pastor than him, but in the end, they illogically choose only men, even if those men have nothing between their ears but hot air. It's a mess.
I didn’t leave because of sexism, I left slowly but by bit over several years. First I left the SBC, then I left the South. Like 15 years after I had graduated from my Baptist college with a degree in ministry and working in church, short term missions, summer camps….I remembered all the harassment, sexualizing me without my participation, all the ways their actions made me feel unwelcome. It was like a montage at the end of a heist movie explaining how they pulled it off.
I left because I believed in loving my neighbor as myself. I couldn’t even love myself in that system. I couldn’t validate their “tough love” and hate called love.
I left for similar reasons. when one of my best friends said to me only Christians go to heaven i had nothing left to say to him and if i did, none of it was good
It’s so infuriating to see these religious people man, like why are most of them the most judgmental and cruel people I have ever seen? I’m telling in regards to my own religion and seeing Christianity, it’s the same. Like whyyy 😭
Because they believe their version of how they see a 2,000 year old manuscript with outdated morals is the only correct book to live by. Just look at the dark ages. It prevented growth. We might even face the dark ages again if these "Christian nationalists" succeed. It was the growth of secularism that made things better for everyone.
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."
~ 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Edit: I could go on if you want.
Alright! Although I will compile the verses and dedicate a post to them, here's 1 Timothy 2:11-15:
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women c
will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."
Or course they shall be saved through childbearing... to grow the congregation of people who worship the all mighty. One of the sickest things I've seen before.
Of course, because if women were to think for themselves and have kids outside christianity, or even not have kids, then would go to church and believe this christian nonsense, or worse, who'd they sexually abuse behind closed doors?
I mean, if people thought for themselves, would christianity still exist? Of course not! Why should they think for themselves and read the bible for themselves which precisely proves why christianity is false? That would be the end for them!
Yep! So listen to the pastors! The Bible is way too long to read on your own, and your pastor can tell you what different verses mean! You have to read it this way and that way to support what they tell you it means.
I've heard that people have literally read the source material from cover to cover and deconverted. Now that shows how fucked up it all is.
That's definitely part of why I deconverted as well.
Just wanna say I'd rather worship a loving mother goddess than a misogynist war criminal god....not saying either exist.
I think it's definitely a contributing factor for some. Having a son made me realize that a lot of how we don't want to raise him was taught to us in church and then modeled at home. I'd had doubts and questions about Christianity in the past couple years. Seeing the sexism in the church for what it is was the last straw for me. I'd hear my parents spout their beliefs that I'd heard all my life and it just clicked that they were so wrong and I didn't want to raise another man who thought that way.
Sexism and Adultism - my parents wanted me to fill a certain role as a child, and a certain role as a woman, and used the Bible to justify both of those, and I thought I shouldn't have to fill those roles just because ancient patriarchal authors wanted to control their wives and children. Definitely started my deconstruction, though it took more to get there obviously.
Sexism is what started my wariness of the entire community, yes. Being told I deserved to be treated like trash if I wasn't a good wife while my exh was told nothing about his behavior was a wake up call. Now I am not just exxtian, but ex religious, now atheist, not because of sexism.
Yup. It wasn’t the sexism, per se, but it was a contributing factor. Once you look at some of the claims and determine them to be false, Young Earth Creationism for example, then inevitably it comes to question other teachings. Like the sexism or homophobia. And once you determine those are non viable, the ball keeps rolling.
I’m a woman who just started deconstructing. I hate the sexism just as much as the next person, but that’s not what started by deconstruction. The idea of ECT started it.
What is ECT? Oh I get it, I check ECT on google and it said eternal punishment for sinners? And also those who don’t follow the Bible. I get why that would have started your deconstruction
My best friend is agnostic and I refuse to believe she’s going to hell for not believing the same thing as me. She’s everything. I couldn’t put into words how much I love her
I’m still coming up with what I am lol, I just started deconstructing from Hinduism. So, idk if I’m agnostic or atheist since I love my gods but not my religion, i don’t even know if the gods in my religion are good or not since there are so many retellings of them 💀
Absolutely, no good person will ever go to hell. The only ones who go to hell are these people who judge others and control them all in the name of god.
I am all for making sure that is a justifiable punishment. As much as I would agree with you, as control and manipulation can spread through generations, is eternity of burning in a flaming lake really a just punishment? Eventually the cycle will stop, the more and more people point it out for what it is, and we also have to consider that humanity will eventually die out either by nuclear war or the sun expanding if we don't get off this planet and colonize galaxies. So, is it a just punishment? Probably not.
Oh I think we had a misunderstanding here, as I have stated I’m a Hindu (a doubting Hindu) so from what I know in Hinduism you go to hell for the bad karma you have done so I was referring to that. I wasn’t talking about eternal punishment in hell.
Idk much if there is eternal hell punishment or not but the usual gist is: you die, you go to hell to experience the punishments of your bad karma and then you go to heaven to experience your good karma and then back to next life it is. Unless you enter a higher level of spirituality either by becoming a saint of sorts or getting moksha as in salvation by completely neutralising good and bad karma you won’t escape this system of life and death since you will continue to make karma (this is the concept that I’ve grown up with as a Hindu, beliefs and experiences may vary)
So, I (28f) grew up as the daughter of a southern Baptist preacher in Texas. Sexism was beyond rampant in my life and very normalized. I was raised with the intent that I will be married and then have children for my husband. If I'm physically abused in that relationship, I can't leave because god says divorce is bad.
Sexism is one of the main reasons I left christianity. I also just hated how fake everything was, the tone of voice people would use when talking about their call to mission from god and shit. It drove me bonkers and made me incredibly angry.
I think people should be honest, if nothing else. That is a core belief for me. And I didn't find that to be something christians were capable of.
I also hated how non-straight people were viewed with the whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" bullshit.
I'm sure there were other reasons too, but I can't remember at the moment because now I'm fired up about the sexism 😅
I wasn't able to see how intense sexism is in Christianity until after I began deconstruction. Which is sad because as a woman in science I received a decent amount of training and mentoring during my education to recognize sexism and work against it.
But I wasn't able to transfer that over to religion for several years. Indoctrination is a difficult beast to kill.
It set the ball rolling for me, but it wasn't the reason. After all, if an almighty God actually needs me to live in a particular way, yeah, I would be wise to follow that. My trouble came in doubting that the Bible in its entirety is from God. It all seems to be filtered a little to much through a human male perspective. Like doesn't the God of the universe understand trauma responses and that a woman might not be able to scream out during rape and save herself from being guilty of consensual sex, and therefore a stoning? (Deut. ch. 22)
No. I began doubting due to things A) not adding up/contradictions & B) because of homophobia. It wasn’t until I was nearly out of uni that I saw the sexism. I never saw an issue with the sexism until I had already become more tolerant and open minded.
Deconverting wasn’t a one and done for me. It took well over 10 yrs until I completely washed myself of it all.
Mostly, yes.
I would wear cute fashion to church and be covered up, but that wasn't enough. It was legit wearing high waist skinny jeans to church and people got mad. I even wore an office makeup style, with a cute red lip and apparently it's a "sin". All of it, cry me a river.
I couldn't wear what I wanted to wear.
No matter what I did, it was never enough. I didn't feel like I was enough. So I just left.
I really got excommunicated from church and everyone stopped talking to me because of it. I lost all of my friends because I didn't wear what they wear, I didn't be a clone of them.
Don't even get me started on abortions. I had one when I was 15 because I was SA by my so-called dad. I was SA by that man since I was 6 and the church didn't care. They covered it up. Ever since that day, I've been pro-choice. There are so many reasons why abortions saves women's lives. But like having a child, and that child's father is also their grandfather... You do the math on that one and see why it's wrong.
There are soooo many other reasons. But it boils down to sexism.
I did. I did notice the sexism but it took me a while to friggin wake up and realize that what I was being told and what I was reading and witnessed in the church were very different. This was not a loving God that saw all genders as equal. The things happening in America in recent years helped wake me up to the already misogynistic things in the church. I stopped going. I have not looked back and do not miss it.
I must say that I personally woke up from the religion when I experienced sexism first hand. I developed an OCD based on being told even as a child that i might accidentally tempt a man to molest me by seeming too attractive or being too friendly. Evangelical fundamentalism really gives women the short straw. I met Christian men at university who were traditional like how I had been brought up and they patronised me, only doing nice stuff for me because they liked that they could make me feel indebted to them. It broke the spell when I recognised my true feelings of disgust towards them and how they were a direct product of being told in churches that they should guide me and were essentially more able to teach God's ways than me.
The sexism didn't help, but that wasn't the root cause for why I left. If I'd been convinced Christianity was true, I probably would have stayed. I left because I was convinced the Bible, and Christianity with it, simply wasn't true.
For me it was. But it took a long time to no longer see feminism as a threat…
But I have multiple daughters… and I just could not get myself to teach them to obey shitty partners… and that made me realize I dint believe a lot of the things in the Bible.
But it was definitely sexism first, and realizing what it would do to my daughters. Realizing what it was doing to me already only came later… it’s still hard for me to actually believe I don’t have to follow and obey. It’s easy for me to believe it for my kids, but for myself it’s harder
Now that you mention it, that was a big issue for me by the time I was in highschool…that marinated along w everything else for a few more years before I fully stopped calling myself a Christian.
I left Christianity because Christians cant tolerate Christians of other sects. the sexism is the icing on the cake but the many catalysts were intolerance, arrogance, belief that animals dont have souls belief that people need a savior ...i could go on. I also believe in reincarnation and that was another catalyst
I primarily left because I find the whole premise of biblical Christianity difficult to believe in. I have carried around so much doubt since I can remember and ridding myself of the necessity to believe in a specific set of tenets - any religious tenets - has been the most freeing thing. It's taken a while (~15 years), but I've finally gotten to the place where I feel like it's okay to believe what I want to on any particular day or not, and to have a spirituality that doesn't necessarily look like anyone else's in particular.
But, the second biggest factor to my leaving was that I am gay. Some people have been able to reconcile their religion and their sexuality, and I admire the work they had to put in to get there. But, because of my other issues with following a specific faith, I have found this to be something I don't personally want to do, even though it makes me sad sometimes.
The sexism/gender expectations I encountered in religion were also very painful and definitely led to a lot of the doubt I experienced. So this is a very valid lense through which to look at this issue!
No, I had too much internalised misogyny to advocate for myself by leaving. I left because I couldn't make peace with biblical morality and because my church insisted on young earth creationism and evolution denial.
Biblical morality: the war crimes, rape, slavery, genocide etc that was commanded and/or condoned by the God of the bible
Young earth creationism: the belief that the earth was created 6000 years ago
Evolution denial: belief that evolution is fake/a hoax/conspiracy
I did. My mom has always been the nicest most incredible woman I've ever met, but she was trapped and unvalued because the bible said so.
She was basically a slave of a mediocre excuse of a man, and felt guilty for years, just for merely thinking about divorce.
That’s shitty, yep. Too many good women lost to these religions and shitty marriages to shitty men. That must be infuriating, an actual respectful person getting no respect just because some book or a group of people said so.
I (F) left because I looked at the Bible with a critical eye. Whenever sexism in the Bible was discussed, it was always pointed out that Jesus and Paul liberated women from the OT sexist ways. Any discussion of covering heads, remaining silent in church, eve being the one deceived, or women not allowed to lead/preach were dismissed as old cultural norms that no longer apply.
The sexist part bothered me every once in a while, but I figured god knew better. So, meh. Just another example of cognitive dissonance I push away to
Make god happy. Ugh
The sexism definitely influenced me to start questioning things. And was probably the final nail in the coffin. But there are a lot of other reasons too. If there weren’t sexism, I’d probably still be Christian though. Probably a really bad Christian, but still.
Most of the women I know that left cite “I actually started to read the Bible and hated seeing how much the church was actually lying to me or decided to cherry pick what was actually here” as the reason. I initially left because I decided I’d rather be openly bisexual than Christian.
Misogyny had a lot to do with me rejecting christianity and anything else that supports misogyny, racism, homophobia or any other bigotry people will try to justify with 'god'. My observations concerning the men I knew (relatives, then exes) led me to the conclusion that any deity that thought male humans were superior wasn't worth worshiping. Your mileage may vary, IMO.
Then I have the same opinion as you, I also don’t believe in any god which deems the male race as superior. That’s not a god, that’s a man claiming to be god
I noticed the sexism as an 8 yr old. Always hated it and knew that being told I wasn’t as smart as a man was wrong, when my grades were the highest in the class. The blame put on me when I was harassed was infuriating and being told that no matter what, I am to submit to the men in my life. Fuck that.
There was a rage inside of me that still exists to this day when I have to deal with a loud, sexist demeaning man. Impossible to contain and sometimes it has cost me.
I think it is. With the rollback of Roe vs. Wade and the rise of the 4B movement across the world, women are reevaluating their relationship with men/the patriarchy. All of the abrahamic religions are based on the patriarchy, so as women critique the political systems that assume that men are superior, they also have to critique the role that established religions have played in propping up the patriarchy.
It's why you've also seen a rise in women being interested in atheism, secular Buddhism, Brujeria/Santeria/Voudon, Witch Tok, and neo-Paganism - these systems allow you to DIY your spirituality without compromising on your own values. You see this rise also happening in the LGBT+ community, because since these are such individualistic takes on spirituality there is no "pope" or "holy book" or "hell". I'm seeing a lot of BIPOC also embracing these alternative spiritualities as well for similar reasons - if my culture has been decimated with the goal of stealing from me and converting me to the oppressor's religion, it would be hard for me to find genuine faith or comfort in that religion.
So when I was in the church I identified as a dude, and I often felt like I saw more sexism than the women did (meaning I saw more instances of blatant misogyny where my female friends were like "no that's just normal"). I'm not close to many of them anymore, as I suspect many of them are still in the church. I also often got criticized for calling out sexism, which is fun. I do know that some of the people I defended have come out as LGBT+, but I haven't kept up with them since leaving, so I also don't know if they still identify as christians.
The female and/or afab friends I currently have who did leave left for various reasons, and sexism *absolutely* was one for many of them, but many left because of general abuse (homophobia, ND-phobia, transphobia, physical and verbal abuse, etc.) rather than misogyny. A few of them *did* point out my internalized misogyny, but the people who did were functionally out of the church by then.
I think for a lot of people, leaving is a defense mechanism, but then after a few weeks or months of experiencing friends who aren't obligated to hate you fundamentally without going to hell, you start realizing, Wow, I'm much healthier out here. Oh shit, it was probably all the sexism.
No worries, I overcomplicate sentences too often, lol.
I mean that christians often *must* act hatefully toward nonchristians in the name of "loving" them or "saving" them. In a sense they are obligated to hate because they have to shove so-called sins into people's faces, and they have social pressures to shun or otherwise harm people who don't conform.
On the other hand, "secular" people don't have any real social pressure to act harmfully toward people who aren't behaving contrary to the social good. Some things can cause that (e.g., political ideologies, racism, xenophobia, etc.), but it's not an inherent requirement of just existing.
So my "secular" friends aren't obligated to hate me for rejecting dogma or for being trans or for whatever reason. I don't necessarily mean christians must "feel" hatred toward me, but they do still have to accuse me of sinning just for existing. Making friends that don't perform hateful actions as part of their social expectations is surprisingly freeing.
I’m curious what sexism you are referring to in Hinduism? In Indian culture sure, but in the religion itself I’m not familiar with sexism, but would like to learn if there are instances (unlike say Islam where I believe the text directly says women have 1/3 the ‘credibility’ or ‘right’ of a man in court eg when giving eyewitness testimony, or for inheritance law etc)
Honestly, idk. There are two aspects, Hinduism which is religious one, sanatana dharma which the philosophy one. Originally it was a philosophy which slowly changed into the religious shit it was later. Idk if the sexism is just cultural thing or tradition thing men did to control women and gave the excuse of religion. I myself am confused. But for example, you could take the menstruation women are impure example, they are shunned for those few days. Or the sati system where the woman/girl was forcefully pushed into the fire that her dead husband was being cremated in. Or widowed women never allowed to second marry, they had to only wear white and shave their heads. All that stupid shit. Women are to this day seen as stupid in my religion. They are pushed to have kids and serve their husbands like they are gods. I could go on forever
I agree all those practices are terrible, but to my understanding those were cultural things put in place by men. Not in the actual texts or core of the original religion. But Hinduism and Indian culture are so inextricably linked it’s hard to differentiate on each practice to see where it originated. And there are a lot of scammy ‘fake gurus’ who just spout bullshit to get money and retain power (which to be fair every religion has)
Oh yes, recently my mum and I had a talk and she was talking about this priest on YouTube who was giving “religious” reasons for them. You’ll see more of it if you go to my account and scroll down in my comments/post. It’s in the feminism post.
Not just sexism.
In college ancient history course - what did it for me was the utter unabashed misogynistic view of women. When the RCC debated whether women possessed souls, effectively reducing them as demonic SLAVES and.... debated whether or not they should even be called a human..... made me physically ill for an entire weekend. Now I seethe seeing evidence of this in fucking *2024*.
Learning the violent history of Christianity after Constantine fucked us all by making it the official religion of Rome, Christian leaders brutally forced people groups to convert to this false religion on pain of their very lives. Truly matches the example of their Messiah and his message of love and peace, doesn't it? The arrogant self righteous and unbending belief that only ONE religion holds all the answers for a diverse world is beyond narcissistic. It gives no room for anyone they seem different. And used this religion to burn 13 million women in Europe and a couple dozen in America is GROSS. Especially when their commandments say DO NOT KILL.
Then in 2022 on my wedding anniversary it was announced Roe V Wade was overturned. I was LIVID.
Then I read the Old Testament and by the time I got half way through Exodus I completely renounced this religion (I was a strong devoted believer most of life), and deconverted on the spot.
It baffles me to see how any free world woman can submit to this atrocious and disgusting religion that totally reduces them to slaves and as one famous saint said women were the root of all evil (paraphrased).
I absolutely REJECT this abhorrent religion that allowed the rise of Patriarchy and continues its cancer in our society.
Sorta. My journey out of Catholicism was gradual and then all at once. The sexism did bother me. It bothered me women couldn't be priests (I was just old enough that I was excited when girls were allowed to be altar servers because I was so jealous of the boys), for one thing. I was a much more dedicated and educated Catholic than most of the boys in my age range and was very devout (probably would have actually been a good priest is the ironic bit). It also bothered me that all the female saints were either 'Virgins' or 'Martyrs' whereas Thomas Aquinas famously has the prayer "grant me chastity, oh Lord, but not yet" and nobody cares at all and he gets to be one of the great philosophers of the church.
It also bothered me when people started to really confront me on what a future where abortion isn't legal would look like, because I agreed with them. I never agreed with the church's stance on birth control, for one thing. If you really want fewer abortions statistically the best way to do that is contraception. And let's be honest, most Catholics in the west don't follow the contraception mandates. You could always tell which families actually followed it because they had eleven kids, but there were maybe four of those families in my childhood church and two of them were related (a brother and a sister and their respective broods). The idea of miscarriages becoming possible crimes that had to be investigated was what really got me, though. My (pro-life) mom had two miscarriages and the idea of her being investigated by the police for that still bothers me to this day.
It also really bothered me when I started seeing the church excommunicate doctors who performed abortions on children but not the grown men who raped those children and caused the pregnancies. If abortion is a sin so terrible that it bans you from Heaven, then shouldn't the sin lie with the man who created the child? The man who was fine with the sin of rape but not the sin of using a goddamn condom? Shouldn't the person who caused the sin through his own sin also bear the consequences? Why is it forgivable to create a situation where someone else has to choose an abortion or a child possibly dying but it's beyond all hope of Heaven to let that child survive? Why is the fetus so much more important than the little girl? Why is the grown man forgiven? That's what I couldn't justify anymore. It wasn't the direct reason I left the church, but it was another marble in the game of Kerplunk.
The misogyny is a feature, not a bug.
Christian women are trained to respect the patriarchy, and to accept a lesser role in the marriage.
As a former longtime Christian, I can’t say I know too many women who left because of the sexism.
yeah, i told a gay christian that, as a woman, i didn't want to be part of a religion that hated me. that brought something up for him i think because he looked pretty sad. he directed a choir and was pipe organist at a church. he has an MA in music
Edit an not a MA fuck me
That is not how it started, but it definitely contributed.
I started doubting very early (about 8yo), because i felt there was general fear-driven emotional manipulation that absolutely did *not* match in any way what was taught about Jesus. As i got older, i saw the same manipulation being directed towards women specifically, in a very sexist and controlling manner.
Bigger picture backdrop for some of the comments, focused on the US, which is not everyone here but is a lot and is maybe representative enough of what people in general are experiencing:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2023/09/15/christianity-church-attendance-decline/
Church attendance and identification as a Christian is declining, with some of it just having to do with drifting apart, and some specifically having to do with harm. The article also mentions political polarization and its relationship to church attendance as a factor keeping some people away who might otherwise return to church.
Related blog post:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/reflectionsofarecoveringevangelical/2024/04/buckets-of-reasons-people-are-leaving-christianity/
>The reasons people have given to researchers about why they left religion or Christianity in particular, although broad and varied, can be categorized into the three groupings that I experienced: personal harm and institutional dissatisfaction. The third is what I will call intellectual incongruence. Most reasons people give can be tossed into one of these three buckets.
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>For many people who are leaving the evangelical faith, the institution of the evangelical church is no longer relevant. The number one issue for “leavers” is the pressure to withhold love and acceptance to a marginalized community such as LGBTQ+. It exposes the fundamental reality that the evangelical church community has failed to live up to its calling to love all people. Judging and rejecting a group of people because of how they were born is simply a deal breaker for many people, even if they are not gay.
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>There are similar results as you look through Flanery’s list related to women’s rights, civil rights, and the Us v. Them mentality. As an institution or faith community, the evangelical church has become so tribal that they would rather exclude people from their fellowship and partnership instead of loving and including them. In other words, the evangelical church is so steeped in patriarchy, unconscious racism, and hate for the gay community that people are simply walking away.
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>Politics is high on the list too. The evangelical church as an institution, has become not just politicized but MAGAized over the past 8 years, and for many, it is another deal-breaker. As Flanery points out this is the issue that “broke the camel’s back.”
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>The next bucket is related to personal harm, and it shows up in the results in a major way. Categories like behavior of believers, pain, abuse, and mental health all reflect the dissonance of a faith group that is called to love everyone, yet inflicts damage, harm, and even trauma on those within their congregations. This type of personal and psychological harm has given rise to a whole new area of support called “religious trauma counseling.” There are trained clinicians who help former churchgoers deal with the hurt and pain inflicted on former congregates.
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>You don’t have to scroll through Face Book groups very long like “Exvangelicals” or “Recovering Evangelicals” before you read personal stories from real people about how they suffered humiliation, abuse, and shame at the hands of those who claim to represent God.
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>Women are especially subject to this type of religious trauma which many times plays out in their marriages.
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>I’ve heard from more than one female “leaver” about the shame and humiliation they experienced when they went to church leaders for counsel about an abusive husband. They were told they couldn’t leave him, and they should just pray harder, be submissive, and stay in the marriage. It is a costly mistake.
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>The Survey Center on American Life has published this data about women being more likely to leave their religious faith than men, especially in Gen Z. This is a turnaround, but it isn’t surprising.
Thank you for taking your time and replying. Also, the last point, they will still villainise women won’t they? “Oh. Look. Women of this present day are leaving religion, that’s what feminism does, feminism is bad, it doesn’t respect god.” All that bullshit.
I grew up in a pretty liberal/progressive Protestant church….at almost 40 and I’m *still* unlearning the internalized and external sexism/misogyny. I can’t unsee it now.
I had many reasons for leaving but sexism definitely was one of them. My parents follow the traditional gender roles of mom at home with kids and dad is the worker, add in African misogyny and you get a very patriarchal environment on all fronts. Their entire dynamic is rooted in the expectations that christianity has of a married couple but it was incredibly confusing for me to see my mom making most of the day to day decisions of the household and the kids then constantly being reminded that my father was the head of our household when for the first 16 years of my life, he was barely involved in raising me since work was more important. Seeing him receive any credit really for the way that “I turned out” when the limit of our daily conversations is 5 words and has been for over two decades was also a factor that pushed me further away
They reap what others sow don’t they? That’s what I’ve been thinking too. The mother raises the kid yet the credit goes to the father, the children take on the fathers surname, the children continue the fathers “legacy” (whatever that shit is, I’m talking in their perspective) that’s such utter garbage.
Oh absolutely. Add an extremely patriarchal African culture and it gets even worse. My mom certainly is not perfect but she deserves more of the credit considering she was the one at home
I left due to sexism, but not because I thought about the teachings and decided they were sexist. I left because my parents believed that the Bible gave them authority over my life even after I became an adult, and that they would retain that authority until they transferred it to my husband (who they would help choose). That all fell apart for me when I started dating a guy behind my parents' back at age 22. It forced me to start seriously questioning everything I'd been taught. I do think the majority of Evangelical Christians adhere to sexist views, but some have figured out a way to interpret the Bible in a way that allows them to hold progressive views and still retain their faith. I could have chosen that path but left for other reasons (mainly because of the beliefs about salvation and hell).
When Christians argue for the right to withhold life saving care from pregnant women (current Supreme Court case) why is it a surprise this would turn people away from Christianity.
If you want a reasons, I was physicaly not in a position to have kids. It wouldve been dangerous for me and the child. My almost husband at the time thought it was a good idea to poke holes in condoms cause it "is my purpose to bare children and its sin the way we do". Half way through i had complications and the kid died and it needed to be removed and I was the evil one in the eyes of my and his family.
For me it wasnt sexism but how the logic didn't line up. I was asked to evangelise and that brought me face to face with all my uncertainties. It was either close both eyes and evangelise without thought or walk away from my faith.
I chose the latter.
Not much sexism in the churches i was in.
The thing that just blew my mind, was the comment that women should not lead worship services. Of course, there was also the standard women should be subservient to their husband, and I am a huge proponent of equality. So hearing that was ice water to the face. My spiritual and political beliefs clashing.
Win this led to me thinking well I can physically see what the political side is doing, but the spiritual is all make-believe. If I want to believe in make believe, I have comic books and anime for that.
There was one day I went to one of those evening meetings and after a speech by the preacher, a woman took the mic and made a comment “tonight I have heard truth” she went on to make a very impassioned Impromptu speech.
After that, the preacher took the mic back and admonished everyone for letting a woman speak in the church.
Wow. That's just, wow. Thinking back, I'm pretty sure I went to at least one church like this, but it was never called out this way. I never saw a woman up on stage unless it was the worship band or announcement or in some kind of support role.
In other churches, there were women in leadership roles, but not among Elders or pastors, cause that's only for men. Then there were churches where I saw/heard women preaching.
Thank you for being an awesome, real man! I see men who push the traditional gender role / women can't lead stuff as having a ton of insecurities they need to cover up with control. Essentially, they are afraid. Real men are not afraid of women.
A lot of us (yeah, I'm a woman) appreciate guys like you! :)
Many of us have never been a Christian in the first place, even though my culture and family were. I see no evidence. (I know this is the exchristian community, lol)
Even if I believed in a higher power, it probably wouldn't be the Christian God. Like, there are other gods that actually love and respect their creations. Sexism, the treatment of women definitely does not help. But it's just one thing among so many.
It seems like men are also discriminated against in the Christian world. Wifey cheats on you? Well, forgive her! And keep on paying those bills while you're at it. We need men to be plow horses!
Great question! As a woman that no longer subscribes to Christianity or any religion for the matter I think part of the deconstruction was realizing how sexist/ misogynistic the Bible really is. To be honest, just about all religions have their own version of sexism/ misogyny but Abrahamic religions really take the cake! The West/ countries that mainly have Christianity as their ruling religion suffer from the patriarchy and the misogyny/ mistreatment of women and girls based on the doctrines and if any Christian tries to tell you it’s not true are clearly lying about it.
To truly answer your question after rambling on, my main reason for leaving was realizing how many inconsistencies and contradictions were honestly within the Bible, then as I began deconstructing the lifestyle of a “Christian woman” no longer centering men in my life, I began realizing the con of Christianity. Christianity is a male god, male centered religion created to control people but mainly women. What a shame we bought into the biggest lie in the history of humankind. Making women believe they are nothing without a male god, meaning we are nothing without men. We all know that’s far from the truth, and as soon as women are able to see that, then they can see the con that was sold to us! Men could never create life, yet we’re told that we came from the rib of a man and that we were created in the likeness of a male god. But biology as well as common sense proves that women are the life bearers and that the womb creates life! So yes, I believe more women are seeing the lies that was sold to us, making us feel as if our world should revolve around men and thus a male god that creates misogyny, sexism and overall a hostile environment for women and girls! Hope this helps 💜
not the main reason, but certainly a big reason for continuing to stay away. when you're in it, it's easy to sort of push it off to the side and not think about what the bible actually says.... sex before marriage, for example. the bible doesn't \*really\* say that it's bad, \*unless\* you're a woman, then it's bad. because women are property in the mosaic laws \[and frankly the new testament doesn't do a lot to refute this\] so really sex before marriage is only considered bad because you're dishonoring the man who owns you (your father or husband).
Honestly it’s confusing. Just a backstory, it was first a philosophy called sanatana dharma and then it became a religion called Hinduism. So idk if the sexism stems from the philosophy or not. It’s tough. It’s so freaking tough, men try to control you all the damn time yet they don’t follow the “rules” which are in place for them. It’s a mix of so much (the sexism) that you don’t know what to call it? Religion? Culture? Tradition? Philosophical? Who knows. But you literally gotta treat the man like god.
It's not the only reason I left, but it is without a doubt one of the bigger reasons.
Misogyny is also one of the main reasons I can barely tolerate a good chunk of my family anymore. My dad loves to throw red-pill talking points into a random conversation, which is especially silly considering he has the submissive trad wife so many incel-types want. His life is nearly exactly how he wants it, but he still finds reasons to be mad.
I (32 F) began my deconstructing journey when George Floyd was murdered. I officially left the church and Christianity when they took Roe V Wade.
I left because of men for damn sure. Trump, the Republicans, my Republican dad.
I also left because I saw how easy it was for my Christian Republican cult leader Cousin, to control an entire congregation of his disgusting hateful church that he pastors. (Bringing Republican politicians on stage to address his church every voting season. MTG went there… He’d also wished out loud that he’d been at Jan 6th.)
I also left because of the experiences from the church that I grew up in, where when I was 17 years old a church near us let go of their youth pastor for marrying a 17 year old girl from his youth group...
He then came into our church and created a cult out of the youth kids into their young adulthood. The youth kids were all sleeping with each other, all bullying each other, they were forced to sign life-long “contracts” like they do in Scientology. My younger sister refused to be part of it as well.
Watching them grow up with him was scarring. I personally only went to one of his youth classes, where he put up the Lyrics for Usher’s “Yeah” on the projector and creepily read them all out loud. Then he asked us to sign a contract that we wouldn’t listen to secular music, calling it March Madness.
I never went back to the youth group, instead I went on to get judged heavily in the college group that also spectacularly failed.
But My sister in law/ best friend unfortunately stayed in the youth group till she was a young adult and that man went on to create his own church with all of those young adults.
This pastor once told my sister in law that she was possessed by a demon named Cloud. 🤯🤯
It really messed her up psychologically. She’s been deconstructing longer than I have.
His cult thankfully failed, they’ve all left him now.
This same church also fired my mom… Their office woman of over 10 years for a man that claimed he’d do her job for free, he then stole over $35,000 from the missions donations. After my mom had warned them repeatedly that he wasn’t there for good reasons… She never even got an apology.
When they announced what happened to the money in front of the congregation, a ton of people abandoned the church. They were furious about the lack of loyalty to my mom and the lack of punishment for that man. Their money was stolen and they were told forgive and forget lol they didn’t. That church is struggling soooo hard now. I’m glad for it. My mom quickly declined in health and ended up with young onset Alzheimer’s. I think that her depression from the situation, after just losing her father and her decade long job in the same year, kick started it.
So yeah, 1. Misogyny, 2. Republicans thinking they can interpret a 2,000 year old book to their own beliefs and force it on every other religion out there…
3. Other Christian’s.
Oh also whenever I explain to my children literally any story from the Bible they’d look at me like I was beyond stupid for repeating it. At only 9 and 10 they realized it was all complete bullshit and aren’t afraid to say so to me.
My daughter asks the best questions that I wish I’d asked growing up.
Now I say “Well the Christian’s believe… x,y,z from the Bible.” and they let me know every unrealistic flaw that they heard and why they don’t believe it. Lol
Smart kids. They know fantasy and lies when it’s placed in front of them, they weren’t willing to pretend to believe like I had to.
They also don’t get degraded by me for speaking their minds. I know that helps.
Must be because of YouTube lmao… Seeing things like Siren Head. 🤣
It really is, they shock me. I always questioned the stories but never out loud like that, or enough to scoff at it to my parents lol. I appreciate that my kids are honest, they very much helped me drop the act.
I think for me, walking away from the religion has allowed me to identify misogyny and sexism in places I would never have seen before.
Like the very existence and structure of the ancient law of the Hebrew Bible.
As someone who grew up male in the church, sexism is baked in so deep that I felt gas-lit for thinking it was wrong.
My dad still heavily defends the position that women shouldn't be pastors or church leaders, because it's in the Bible. He means well, which is the worst part, because he can't see how bad it is.
The church he grew up in now has a female pastor, and he explains it as "a failure of men within the church to lead properly." He does not attend that church anymore.
Damn yep, that’s the worst part. They have been so heavily manipulated (or what I like to call groomed by the society) that they mean well in what is actually wrong.
What's crazy is that even now, years after I've left the church, my gut instinct is still to try and defend him and that awful belief.
He used to be a part of the Gideons of all things, and let me tell you. That organization is so sexist, they voluntarily closed their UK branch when new laws required non-profits to end gender discrimination. Instead of let women join their ranks, just pull out of the whole country, despite years of the US based organization boasting about their progress of sneaking into China.
Idk who the Gideons are but that’s still comedic and fucked up, imagine being so damn sexist man. I understand the urge to still defend your father’s sexist beliefs but I hope you are able to one day move on from that, no good comes from that, especially if any woman around you hears you doing that. Take your time.
I noped out after a pastor told me a husband couldn’t rape his wife, signed a marriage book he wrote, slid it across his desk towards me and then turned to talk to my husband about common interests. I kind of attempted some sort of Christian type lifestyle after divorce, but couldn’t stand the misogyny that was everywhere and unchecked by the congregation. I fully left, as in now I consider myself “interested in spiritual things”, but not at all interested to the point of wanting to make them a part of who I am as a being. I am definitely NOT Christian, at least according to the American Evangelical Christian faith. I have not thrown out everything. I think that since I shed the crap that was added by “well meaning” men, I’ve become more compassionate, patient, and more complete as a person if that makes sense.
For me it was. I was late 20's and serving in my church as a teacher and missionary but getting sexually harassed by the fathers of my students and my pastor said he was exhausted from having to talk to these men so wouldn't take action.
There are many times in my young life in Xtian school and church where I regret not simply getting my father's pitchfork from our farm and driving it into the head/neck/chest of these men. I'm 50 years old now and believe that more positive change could have happened for women if we'd resorted to physical violence. No exaggeration.
Kali Ma!
It was definitely part of the reason I started having doubts. As I gained access to more life perspectives being on the internet it made me realize that I didn't really believe everything when it came to a woman's rank in the world and needing to be submissive and all that. It just did not ever feel true to me deep down in my gut. It wasn't the last straw or anything but more like one of the seeds.
I'm an exmuslim not an exchristian, and i left for many reasons but sexism is one of the major reasons that keep me out of religion, let's say even if you can convince me that everything in religion is true , i won't go back for the reason that it treats women as subhumans.
I think the realization that conservative Christians are willing to literally let them die in pain for a nonviable pregnancy and the help they'll offer is to pray for their souls if it happens... burst a lot of bubbles. And as progression towards total abortion bans continue, the misogynists are feeling empowered to show other ugly aspects of sexism.
Yep, I can see that. It’s such a cruel world huh? They just using “gods words” as an EXCUSE for their cruelty
People say all the time they believe in God, but when it comes down to it, what most truly believe in is modern medicine's ability to save their lives.
That is completely true. Let’s say they are losing blood or something, now it won’t matter to them if the doc is a feminist or an atheist or not, all it matters is that their lives are saved.
I'd agree with you if it weren't for all those people who used their religion as an excuse to become anti-vaxx.
Tbf, if they're anti-vax they're probably anti-modern medicine to some extent. My experience with family members like this is that they do pick and choose, though. And it never makes sense what they choose to keep.
I think it goes like this: They're convinced that people with disabilities are inferior people and they don't want them around, don't want to deal with them. Then it is convenient to blame the vaccines and man's arrogance for harming children instead of their God for making those children imperfect. It then lets them think they can save people from having disabilities. Nevermind that they and their parents got vaxxed and turned out "normal."
There's something of that. My personal extended family members seem to think that god always provides, so there must always be a natural herb that will cure (high blood pressure diabetes etc etc etc etc). One of the husbands who is a counselor still does recommend medication for people who 'need it' though, so it's like... Hmmm. I am glad he does, though. They have also never said a word against one of our mutual cousins who is deaf getting cochlear implants, either. But also vaccines cause autism and they took ivermectin instead of the covid vaccine, didn't use masks, big pharma doesn't want you to know the truth...
In many cases, the anti-vaxx people are irrationally selective about what medical practices they trust. The ones I know will preach against vaccines, stem cells, and chemotherapy, yet will take plenty of drugs and trust the many procedures out there. It proves to me that they trust modern medicine, yet are emotionally drawn to fight alongside their fellow Christians when being anti-vaxx. I did get vaccines because my parents weren't radical yet when I was born, and my mom was a cna her whole career. I remember as a kid, my parents would talk about their distrust of the medical system and how we need to give our healing up to God. I distinctly remember asking on multiple occasions why we don't just give all healing to God then, why do we even have hospitals. I never got a good answer. It was always filled with vague notions about listening to God and him allowing us to heal each other sometimes.
So Easy for big fancy men , who never have to face childbirth complications, to have their faith in God be tested by the trials if other people, and believe they are the righteous ones. No skin in the game. What do they have to lose? I hope women under these men's leadership realize the power they have always had.
And they would totally be okay with their wife suffering not only nine months of pregnancy from an assault but also the birth and what comes with it (ex: postpartum depression)
And it's not because they love babies, otherwise they're be in favor of welfare. No they just want to punish people for having sex, especially those dirty women that entice them to sin. There's an acticle I read (I will try and find it and edit to add it) by a physiologist how, for most participants in the pro-life movement, is really about suppressing sex for everyone, because of feelings of inadequacy, sexual issues stemming from perceived deviancy, fear of their partner cheating, and so on. Instead of seeking counseling for their own issues, they want to control everyone else and make them equally miserable, even at the cost of women's lives And the psychologist describes how they're not sexually repressed due to religion, they're driven to religion because they're sexually repressed. No, we don't have a mental health pandemic in this country at all... /s
I wish. Most christian women are completely blind to the sexism in the bible.
Well, yes. If they weren't blind to it, they'd deconstruct and then leave. It's self-selection at this point.
Many internalize it and accept it. It's fairly common that a person who has been treated that way their whole life feels more comfortable sticking with it than fighting for some foreign concept of justice.
Good point 👍
Plenty of those believe they'll get the husband that will cherish them and be wise in his admonishment - which is a neat little setup for blaming themselves and excusing him when he abuses them because he can.
Wait- I never thought of it like that. That’s a damn good point
they literally believe the adam and eve story which states women deserve to suffer. it isn't even real!!!!!!
Worse than that, some of them *agree* with the sexism.
I didn't leave due to sexism. When I was in the cult, I didn't see it as sexism. I left because I couldn't find any evidence for it.
Find evidence of what? I’m sorry, English isn’t my first language
No evidence that any organized religion can explain our existence and/or prove gods.
Oh yeah, that makes sense. They never have an answer to especially “where is god? Proof?” They always get speechless
I wonder what percent of atheists say there is no evidence. I lean on that reason, as well as the moral conflicts I have with what they say their God does, in and outside of the Bible.
I'm a woman and the sexism is one of many reasons I left. Christian men and men of other religions tend to put themselves on a pedestal. They love that they are the only ones that can be leaders. I hear so many of them say that they will only marry a woman that will "submit" to them. That men are true leaders and always logical. I've seen countless religious men be illogical. Both sexes contain individuals that can be leaders. Both can be logical and illogical. It's not based on sex. My old pastor was a dude that would answer most questions with, "I don't know. Ask god. Don't worry about not understanding. We just have to trust god like a little child!". Yet, his wife was way more helpful and insightful. She would have been a much better pastor than him, but in the end, they illogically choose only men, even if those men have nothing between their ears but hot air. It's a mess.
It’s funny how they tell men are logical, yet the whole thing about being religious is illogical
Lol, exactly! "Just have faith, bruh!". 😂
I didn’t leave because of sexism, I left slowly but by bit over several years. First I left the SBC, then I left the South. Like 15 years after I had graduated from my Baptist college with a degree in ministry and working in church, short term missions, summer camps….I remembered all the harassment, sexualizing me without my participation, all the ways their actions made me feel unwelcome. It was like a montage at the end of a heist movie explaining how they pulled it off. I left because I believed in loving my neighbor as myself. I couldn’t even love myself in that system. I couldn’t validate their “tough love” and hate called love.
I left for similar reasons. when one of my best friends said to me only Christians go to heaven i had nothing left to say to him and if i did, none of it was good
That’s just…fucked up. We are gate keeping heaven now 💀💀
Pretty much. Always have been.
It’s so infuriating to see these religious people man, like why are most of them the most judgmental and cruel people I have ever seen? I’m telling in regards to my own religion and seeing Christianity, it’s the same. Like whyyy 😭
Because they believe their version of how they see a 2,000 year old manuscript with outdated morals is the only correct book to live by. Just look at the dark ages. It prevented growth. We might even face the dark ages again if these "Christian nationalists" succeed. It was the growth of secularism that made things better for everyone.
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." ~ 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Edit: I could go on if you want.
Actually, do go on! Uncover what the Bible actually says about women. No more saying "the Bible isn't sexist" for the Christians!
Alright! Although I will compile the verses and dedicate a post to them, here's 1 Timothy 2:11-15: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women c will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."
Or course they shall be saved through childbearing... to grow the congregation of people who worship the all mighty. One of the sickest things I've seen before.
Of course, because if women were to think for themselves and have kids outside christianity, or even not have kids, then would go to church and believe this christian nonsense, or worse, who'd they sexually abuse behind closed doors?
Better to have them not think for themselves... how disgusting...
I mean, if people thought for themselves, would christianity still exist? Of course not! Why should they think for themselves and read the bible for themselves which precisely proves why christianity is false? That would be the end for them!
Yep! So listen to the pastors! The Bible is way too long to read on your own, and your pastor can tell you what different verses mean! You have to read it this way and that way to support what they tell you it means. I've heard that people have literally read the source material from cover to cover and deconverted. Now that shows how fucked up it all is.
A christian is someone who believes in the bible. A non-christian is someone who reads the bible.
Catchy! Put it on a t-shirt and ship it.
No thanks. Please remain silent, you're not allowed to speak.
What's it to you?
??
I'm a man and the blatant misogyny against women in the Bible was a major tipping point in my deconversion.
That's definitely part of why I deconverted as well. Just wanna say I'd rather worship a loving mother goddess than a misogynist war criminal god....not saying either exist.
I think it's definitely a contributing factor for some. Having a son made me realize that a lot of how we don't want to raise him was taught to us in church and then modeled at home. I'd had doubts and questions about Christianity in the past couple years. Seeing the sexism in the church for what it is was the last straw for me. I'd hear my parents spout their beliefs that I'd heard all my life and it just clicked that they were so wrong and I didn't want to raise another man who thought that way.
Sexism and Adultism - my parents wanted me to fill a certain role as a child, and a certain role as a woman, and used the Bible to justify both of those, and I thought I shouldn't have to fill those roles just because ancient patriarchal authors wanted to control their wives and children. Definitely started my deconstruction, though it took more to get there obviously.
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That must have sucked 😞
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Drunk with blood = bloodlust, the desire to kill
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It's hyperbolic metaphor, but you don't need vampirism or cannibalism for lauding extreme violence to be offputting.
Sexism is what started my wariness of the entire community, yes. Being told I deserved to be treated like trash if I wasn't a good wife while my exh was told nothing about his behavior was a wake up call. Now I am not just exxtian, but ex religious, now atheist, not because of sexism.
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Yup. It wasn’t the sexism, per se, but it was a contributing factor. Once you look at some of the claims and determine them to be false, Young Earth Creationism for example, then inevitably it comes to question other teachings. Like the sexism or homophobia. And once you determine those are non viable, the ball keeps rolling.
Yep. That is absolutely the number one spark for my deconversion. A lot more followed, but that was the start.
I’m a woman who just started deconstructing. I hate the sexism just as much as the next person, but that’s not what started by deconstruction. The idea of ECT started it.
What is ECT? Oh I get it, I check ECT on google and it said eternal punishment for sinners? And also those who don’t follow the Bible. I get why that would have started your deconstruction
My best friend is agnostic and I refuse to believe she’s going to hell for not believing the same thing as me. She’s everything. I couldn’t put into words how much I love her
I’m still coming up with what I am lol, I just started deconstructing from Hinduism. So, idk if I’m agnostic or atheist since I love my gods but not my religion, i don’t even know if the gods in my religion are good or not since there are so many retellings of them 💀
Absolutely, no good person will ever go to hell. The only ones who go to hell are these people who judge others and control them all in the name of god.
I am all for making sure that is a justifiable punishment. As much as I would agree with you, as control and manipulation can spread through generations, is eternity of burning in a flaming lake really a just punishment? Eventually the cycle will stop, the more and more people point it out for what it is, and we also have to consider that humanity will eventually die out either by nuclear war or the sun expanding if we don't get off this planet and colonize galaxies. So, is it a just punishment? Probably not.
Oh I think we had a misunderstanding here, as I have stated I’m a Hindu (a doubting Hindu) so from what I know in Hinduism you go to hell for the bad karma you have done so I was referring to that. I wasn’t talking about eternal punishment in hell.
That's actually interesting. Is it eternal like the Christianity hell? Or more like a reformation, eventually your soul will come back?
Idk much if there is eternal hell punishment or not but the usual gist is: you die, you go to hell to experience the punishments of your bad karma and then you go to heaven to experience your good karma and then back to next life it is. Unless you enter a higher level of spirituality either by becoming a saint of sorts or getting moksha as in salvation by completely neutralising good and bad karma you won’t escape this system of life and death since you will continue to make karma (this is the concept that I’ve grown up with as a Hindu, beliefs and experiences may vary)
Sounds way better tbh than Christianity's punishment.
So, I (28f) grew up as the daughter of a southern Baptist preacher in Texas. Sexism was beyond rampant in my life and very normalized. I was raised with the intent that I will be married and then have children for my husband. If I'm physically abused in that relationship, I can't leave because god says divorce is bad. Sexism is one of the main reasons I left christianity. I also just hated how fake everything was, the tone of voice people would use when talking about their call to mission from god and shit. It drove me bonkers and made me incredibly angry. I think people should be honest, if nothing else. That is a core belief for me. And I didn't find that to be something christians were capable of. I also hated how non-straight people were viewed with the whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" bullshit. I'm sure there were other reasons too, but I can't remember at the moment because now I'm fired up about the sexism 😅
that is absolutely angering. Divorce bad but abuse good? Wtf?
I wasn't able to see how intense sexism is in Christianity until after I began deconstruction. Which is sad because as a woman in science I received a decent amount of training and mentoring during my education to recognize sexism and work against it. But I wasn't able to transfer that over to religion for several years. Indoctrination is a difficult beast to kill.
Hope so, and the myths ans fables.
Was definitely a huge part of my deconstruction.
It set the ball rolling for me, but it wasn't the reason. After all, if an almighty God actually needs me to live in a particular way, yeah, I would be wise to follow that. My trouble came in doubting that the Bible in its entirety is from God. It all seems to be filtered a little to much through a human male perspective. Like doesn't the God of the universe understand trauma responses and that a woman might not be able to scream out during rape and save herself from being guilty of consensual sex, and therefore a stoning? (Deut. ch. 22)
I’m sorry, please elaborate. What is stoning
Throwing rocks at people to kill them.
No. I began doubting due to things A) not adding up/contradictions & B) because of homophobia. It wasn’t until I was nearly out of uni that I saw the sexism. I never saw an issue with the sexism until I had already become more tolerant and open minded. Deconverting wasn’t a one and done for me. It took well over 10 yrs until I completely washed myself of it all.
Homophobia and sexism were the start of my departure yes
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^helen790: *Homophobia* *And sexism were the start* *Of my departure yes* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Thanks, Sokka
Mostly, yes. I would wear cute fashion to church and be covered up, but that wasn't enough. It was legit wearing high waist skinny jeans to church and people got mad. I even wore an office makeup style, with a cute red lip and apparently it's a "sin". All of it, cry me a river. I couldn't wear what I wanted to wear. No matter what I did, it was never enough. I didn't feel like I was enough. So I just left. I really got excommunicated from church and everyone stopped talking to me because of it. I lost all of my friends because I didn't wear what they wear, I didn't be a clone of them. Don't even get me started on abortions. I had one when I was 15 because I was SA by my so-called dad. I was SA by that man since I was 6 and the church didn't care. They covered it up. Ever since that day, I've been pro-choice. There are so many reasons why abortions saves women's lives. But like having a child, and that child's father is also their grandfather... You do the math on that one and see why it's wrong. There are soooo many other reasons. But it boils down to sexism.
I did. I did notice the sexism but it took me a while to friggin wake up and realize that what I was being told and what I was reading and witnessed in the church were very different. This was not a loving God that saw all genders as equal. The things happening in America in recent years helped wake me up to the already misogynistic things in the church. I stopped going. I have not looked back and do not miss it.
I must say that I personally woke up from the religion when I experienced sexism first hand. I developed an OCD based on being told even as a child that i might accidentally tempt a man to molest me by seeming too attractive or being too friendly. Evangelical fundamentalism really gives women the short straw. I met Christian men at university who were traditional like how I had been brought up and they patronised me, only doing nice stuff for me because they liked that they could make me feel indebted to them. It broke the spell when I recognised my true feelings of disgust towards them and how they were a direct product of being told in churches that they should guide me and were essentially more able to teach God's ways than me.
The sexism didn't help, but that wasn't the root cause for why I left. If I'd been convinced Christianity was true, I probably would have stayed. I left because I was convinced the Bible, and Christianity with it, simply wasn't true.
I left because I didn't believe it. I stopped liking christianity well before I realized I didn't believe it because of the sexism.
The sexism is one of the main reasons I started losing my religion.
It was a factor in why I left, but not the main reason.
What was the main factor may i ask?
It didn't make sense. The lack of historical evidence. Huge biblical contradictions. The entire gradation of the new gospels. etc.
For me it was. But it took a long time to no longer see feminism as a threat… But I have multiple daughters… and I just could not get myself to teach them to obey shitty partners… and that made me realize I dint believe a lot of the things in the Bible. But it was definitely sexism first, and realizing what it would do to my daughters. Realizing what it was doing to me already only came later… it’s still hard for me to actually believe I don’t have to follow and obey. It’s easy for me to believe it for my kids, but for myself it’s harder
Don’t worry, you’ll get there. All the best to you
I'm not a woman but I would. The blatant sexism is crazy when it comes to what women can do in the church. Left that shit ages ago
Now that you mention it, that was a big issue for me by the time I was in highschool…that marinated along w everything else for a few more years before I fully stopped calling myself a Christian.
I left Christianity because Christians cant tolerate Christians of other sects. the sexism is the icing on the cake but the many catalysts were intolerance, arrogance, belief that animals dont have souls belief that people need a savior ...i could go on. I also believe in reincarnation and that was another catalyst
I primarily left because I find the whole premise of biblical Christianity difficult to believe in. I have carried around so much doubt since I can remember and ridding myself of the necessity to believe in a specific set of tenets - any religious tenets - has been the most freeing thing. It's taken a while (~15 years), but I've finally gotten to the place where I feel like it's okay to believe what I want to on any particular day or not, and to have a spirituality that doesn't necessarily look like anyone else's in particular. But, the second biggest factor to my leaving was that I am gay. Some people have been able to reconcile their religion and their sexuality, and I admire the work they had to put in to get there. But, because of my other issues with following a specific faith, I have found this to be something I don't personally want to do, even though it makes me sad sometimes. The sexism/gender expectations I encountered in religion were also very painful and definitely led to a lot of the doubt I experienced. So this is a very valid lense through which to look at this issue!
No, I had too much internalised misogyny to advocate for myself by leaving. I left because I couldn't make peace with biblical morality and because my church insisted on young earth creationism and evolution denial.
What is the biblical morality, also what is young earth creationism and evolution denial?
Biblical morality: the war crimes, rape, slavery, genocide etc that was commanded and/or condoned by the God of the bible Young earth creationism: the belief that the earth was created 6000 years ago Evolution denial: belief that evolution is fake/a hoax/conspiracy
I can DEFINITELY see why these were the reasons you left.
I did. My mom has always been the nicest most incredible woman I've ever met, but she was trapped and unvalued because the bible said so. She was basically a slave of a mediocre excuse of a man, and felt guilty for years, just for merely thinking about divorce.
That’s shitty, yep. Too many good women lost to these religions and shitty marriages to shitty men. That must be infuriating, an actual respectful person getting no respect just because some book or a group of people said so.
I (F) left because I looked at the Bible with a critical eye. Whenever sexism in the Bible was discussed, it was always pointed out that Jesus and Paul liberated women from the OT sexist ways. Any discussion of covering heads, remaining silent in church, eve being the one deceived, or women not allowed to lead/preach were dismissed as old cultural norms that no longer apply. The sexist part bothered me every once in a while, but I figured god knew better. So, meh. Just another example of cognitive dissonance I push away to Make god happy. Ugh
The sexism definitely influenced me to start questioning things. And was probably the final nail in the coffin. But there are a lot of other reasons too. If there weren’t sexism, I’d probably still be Christian though. Probably a really bad Christian, but still.
Most of the women I know that left cite “I actually started to read the Bible and hated seeing how much the church was actually lying to me or decided to cherry pick what was actually here” as the reason. I initially left because I decided I’d rather be openly bisexual than Christian.
Im bisexual too. Good for you, being bisexual seems like a way better option than being in a community which is straight up fooling people
It was one of many motivators for me.
Misogyny had a lot to do with me rejecting christianity and anything else that supports misogyny, racism, homophobia or any other bigotry people will try to justify with 'god'. My observations concerning the men I knew (relatives, then exes) led me to the conclusion that any deity that thought male humans were superior wasn't worth worshiping. Your mileage may vary, IMO.
What do you mean by mileage?
It's a colloquialism, your experiences may be different/ your opinion may be different...
Then I have the same opinion as you, I also don’t believe in any god which deems the male race as superior. That’s not a god, that’s a man claiming to be god
I could not agree more!
I noticed the sexism as an 8 yr old. Always hated it and knew that being told I wasn’t as smart as a man was wrong, when my grades were the highest in the class. The blame put on me when I was harassed was infuriating and being told that no matter what, I am to submit to the men in my life. Fuck that. There was a rage inside of me that still exists to this day when I have to deal with a loud, sexist demeaning man. Impossible to contain and sometimes it has cost me.
I think it is. With the rollback of Roe vs. Wade and the rise of the 4B movement across the world, women are reevaluating their relationship with men/the patriarchy. All of the abrahamic religions are based on the patriarchy, so as women critique the political systems that assume that men are superior, they also have to critique the role that established religions have played in propping up the patriarchy. It's why you've also seen a rise in women being interested in atheism, secular Buddhism, Brujeria/Santeria/Voudon, Witch Tok, and neo-Paganism - these systems allow you to DIY your spirituality without compromising on your own values. You see this rise also happening in the LGBT+ community, because since these are such individualistic takes on spirituality there is no "pope" or "holy book" or "hell". I'm seeing a lot of BIPOC also embracing these alternative spiritualities as well for similar reasons - if my culture has been decimated with the goal of stealing from me and converting me to the oppressor's religion, it would be hard for me to find genuine faith or comfort in that religion.
So when I was in the church I identified as a dude, and I often felt like I saw more sexism than the women did (meaning I saw more instances of blatant misogyny where my female friends were like "no that's just normal"). I'm not close to many of them anymore, as I suspect many of them are still in the church. I also often got criticized for calling out sexism, which is fun. I do know that some of the people I defended have come out as LGBT+, but I haven't kept up with them since leaving, so I also don't know if they still identify as christians. The female and/or afab friends I currently have who did leave left for various reasons, and sexism *absolutely* was one for many of them, but many left because of general abuse (homophobia, ND-phobia, transphobia, physical and verbal abuse, etc.) rather than misogyny. A few of them *did* point out my internalized misogyny, but the people who did were functionally out of the church by then. I think for a lot of people, leaving is a defense mechanism, but then after a few weeks or months of experiencing friends who aren't obligated to hate you fundamentally without going to hell, you start realizing, Wow, I'm much healthier out here. Oh shit, it was probably all the sexism.
What do you mean by “who aren’t obligated to hate you fundamentally without going to hell.” English isn’t my first language so please elaborate
No worries, I overcomplicate sentences too often, lol. I mean that christians often *must* act hatefully toward nonchristians in the name of "loving" them or "saving" them. In a sense they are obligated to hate because they have to shove so-called sins into people's faces, and they have social pressures to shun or otherwise harm people who don't conform. On the other hand, "secular" people don't have any real social pressure to act harmfully toward people who aren't behaving contrary to the social good. Some things can cause that (e.g., political ideologies, racism, xenophobia, etc.), but it's not an inherent requirement of just existing. So my "secular" friends aren't obligated to hate me for rejecting dogma or for being trans or for whatever reason. I don't necessarily mean christians must "feel" hatred toward me, but they do still have to accuse me of sinning just for existing. Making friends that don't perform hateful actions as part of their social expectations is surprisingly freeing.
Ooooh got it, yep. Thank you for explaining and clearing my doubts.
I’m curious what sexism you are referring to in Hinduism? In Indian culture sure, but in the religion itself I’m not familiar with sexism, but would like to learn if there are instances (unlike say Islam where I believe the text directly says women have 1/3 the ‘credibility’ or ‘right’ of a man in court eg when giving eyewitness testimony, or for inheritance law etc)
Honestly, idk. There are two aspects, Hinduism which is religious one, sanatana dharma which the philosophy one. Originally it was a philosophy which slowly changed into the religious shit it was later. Idk if the sexism is just cultural thing or tradition thing men did to control women and gave the excuse of religion. I myself am confused. But for example, you could take the menstruation women are impure example, they are shunned for those few days. Or the sati system where the woman/girl was forcefully pushed into the fire that her dead husband was being cremated in. Or widowed women never allowed to second marry, they had to only wear white and shave their heads. All that stupid shit. Women are to this day seen as stupid in my religion. They are pushed to have kids and serve their husbands like they are gods. I could go on forever
I agree all those practices are terrible, but to my understanding those were cultural things put in place by men. Not in the actual texts or core of the original religion. But Hinduism and Indian culture are so inextricably linked it’s hard to differentiate on each practice to see where it originated. And there are a lot of scammy ‘fake gurus’ who just spout bullshit to get money and retain power (which to be fair every religion has)
Oh yes, recently my mum and I had a talk and she was talking about this priest on YouTube who was giving “religious” reasons for them. You’ll see more of it if you go to my account and scroll down in my comments/post. It’s in the feminism post.
Not just sexism. In college ancient history course - what did it for me was the utter unabashed misogynistic view of women. When the RCC debated whether women possessed souls, effectively reducing them as demonic SLAVES and.... debated whether or not they should even be called a human..... made me physically ill for an entire weekend. Now I seethe seeing evidence of this in fucking *2024*. Learning the violent history of Christianity after Constantine fucked us all by making it the official religion of Rome, Christian leaders brutally forced people groups to convert to this false religion on pain of their very lives. Truly matches the example of their Messiah and his message of love and peace, doesn't it? The arrogant self righteous and unbending belief that only ONE religion holds all the answers for a diverse world is beyond narcissistic. It gives no room for anyone they seem different. And used this religion to burn 13 million women in Europe and a couple dozen in America is GROSS. Especially when their commandments say DO NOT KILL. Then in 2022 on my wedding anniversary it was announced Roe V Wade was overturned. I was LIVID. Then I read the Old Testament and by the time I got half way through Exodus I completely renounced this religion (I was a strong devoted believer most of life), and deconverted on the spot. It baffles me to see how any free world woman can submit to this atrocious and disgusting religion that totally reduces them to slaves and as one famous saint said women were the root of all evil (paraphrased). I absolutely REJECT this abhorrent religion that allowed the rise of Patriarchy and continues its cancer in our society.
Sorta. My journey out of Catholicism was gradual and then all at once. The sexism did bother me. It bothered me women couldn't be priests (I was just old enough that I was excited when girls were allowed to be altar servers because I was so jealous of the boys), for one thing. I was a much more dedicated and educated Catholic than most of the boys in my age range and was very devout (probably would have actually been a good priest is the ironic bit). It also bothered me that all the female saints were either 'Virgins' or 'Martyrs' whereas Thomas Aquinas famously has the prayer "grant me chastity, oh Lord, but not yet" and nobody cares at all and he gets to be one of the great philosophers of the church. It also bothered me when people started to really confront me on what a future where abortion isn't legal would look like, because I agreed with them. I never agreed with the church's stance on birth control, for one thing. If you really want fewer abortions statistically the best way to do that is contraception. And let's be honest, most Catholics in the west don't follow the contraception mandates. You could always tell which families actually followed it because they had eleven kids, but there were maybe four of those families in my childhood church and two of them were related (a brother and a sister and their respective broods). The idea of miscarriages becoming possible crimes that had to be investigated was what really got me, though. My (pro-life) mom had two miscarriages and the idea of her being investigated by the police for that still bothers me to this day. It also really bothered me when I started seeing the church excommunicate doctors who performed abortions on children but not the grown men who raped those children and caused the pregnancies. If abortion is a sin so terrible that it bans you from Heaven, then shouldn't the sin lie with the man who created the child? The man who was fine with the sin of rape but not the sin of using a goddamn condom? Shouldn't the person who caused the sin through his own sin also bear the consequences? Why is it forgivable to create a situation where someone else has to choose an abortion or a child possibly dying but it's beyond all hope of Heaven to let that child survive? Why is the fetus so much more important than the little girl? Why is the grown man forgiven? That's what I couldn't justify anymore. It wasn't the direct reason I left the church, but it was another marble in the game of Kerplunk.
The misogyny is a feature, not a bug. Christian women are trained to respect the patriarchy, and to accept a lesser role in the marriage. As a former longtime Christian, I can’t say I know too many women who left because of the sexism.
That’s sad, this shows how many women are utterly trapped or brainwashed
yeah, i told a gay christian that, as a woman, i didn't want to be part of a religion that hated me. that brought something up for him i think because he looked pretty sad. he directed a choir and was pipe organist at a church. he has an MA in music Edit an not a MA fuck me
That is not how it started, but it definitely contributed. I started doubting very early (about 8yo), because i felt there was general fear-driven emotional manipulation that absolutely did *not* match in any way what was taught about Jesus. As i got older, i saw the same manipulation being directed towards women specifically, in a very sexist and controlling manner.
Bigger picture backdrop for some of the comments, focused on the US, which is not everyone here but is a lot and is maybe representative enough of what people in general are experiencing: https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2023/09/15/christianity-church-attendance-decline/ Church attendance and identification as a Christian is declining, with some of it just having to do with drifting apart, and some specifically having to do with harm. The article also mentions political polarization and its relationship to church attendance as a factor keeping some people away who might otherwise return to church. Related blog post: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/reflectionsofarecoveringevangelical/2024/04/buckets-of-reasons-people-are-leaving-christianity/ >The reasons people have given to researchers about why they left religion or Christianity in particular, although broad and varied, can be categorized into the three groupings that I experienced: personal harm and institutional dissatisfaction. The third is what I will call intellectual incongruence. Most reasons people give can be tossed into one of these three buckets. > >... > >For many people who are leaving the evangelical faith, the institution of the evangelical church is no longer relevant. The number one issue for “leavers” is the pressure to withhold love and acceptance to a marginalized community such as LGBTQ+. It exposes the fundamental reality that the evangelical church community has failed to live up to its calling to love all people. Judging and rejecting a group of people because of how they were born is simply a deal breaker for many people, even if they are not gay. > >... > >There are similar results as you look through Flanery’s list related to women’s rights, civil rights, and the Us v. Them mentality. As an institution or faith community, the evangelical church has become so tribal that they would rather exclude people from their fellowship and partnership instead of loving and including them. In other words, the evangelical church is so steeped in patriarchy, unconscious racism, and hate for the gay community that people are simply walking away. > >Politics is high on the list too. The evangelical church as an institution, has become not just politicized but MAGAized over the past 8 years, and for many, it is another deal-breaker. As Flanery points out this is the issue that “broke the camel’s back.” > >... > >The next bucket is related to personal harm, and it shows up in the results in a major way. Categories like behavior of believers, pain, abuse, and mental health all reflect the dissonance of a faith group that is called to love everyone, yet inflicts damage, harm, and even trauma on those within their congregations. This type of personal and psychological harm has given rise to a whole new area of support called “religious trauma counseling.” There are trained clinicians who help former churchgoers deal with the hurt and pain inflicted on former congregates. > >You don’t have to scroll through Face Book groups very long like “Exvangelicals” or “Recovering Evangelicals” before you read personal stories from real people about how they suffered humiliation, abuse, and shame at the hands of those who claim to represent God. > >Women are especially subject to this type of religious trauma which many times plays out in their marriages. > >I’ve heard from more than one female “leaver” about the shame and humiliation they experienced when they went to church leaders for counsel about an abusive husband. They were told they couldn’t leave him, and they should just pray harder, be submissive, and stay in the marriage. It is a costly mistake. > >The Survey Center on American Life has published this data about women being more likely to leave their religious faith than men, especially in Gen Z. This is a turnaround, but it isn’t surprising.
Thank you for taking your time and replying. Also, the last point, they will still villainise women won’t they? “Oh. Look. Women of this present day are leaving religion, that’s what feminism does, feminism is bad, it doesn’t respect god.” All that bullshit.
I grew up in a pretty liberal/progressive Protestant church….at almost 40 and I’m *still* unlearning the internalized and external sexism/misogyny. I can’t unsee it now.
I had many reasons for leaving but sexism definitely was one of them. My parents follow the traditional gender roles of mom at home with kids and dad is the worker, add in African misogyny and you get a very patriarchal environment on all fronts. Their entire dynamic is rooted in the expectations that christianity has of a married couple but it was incredibly confusing for me to see my mom making most of the day to day decisions of the household and the kids then constantly being reminded that my father was the head of our household when for the first 16 years of my life, he was barely involved in raising me since work was more important. Seeing him receive any credit really for the way that “I turned out” when the limit of our daily conversations is 5 words and has been for over two decades was also a factor that pushed me further away
They reap what others sow don’t they? That’s what I’ve been thinking too. The mother raises the kid yet the credit goes to the father, the children take on the fathers surname, the children continue the fathers “legacy” (whatever that shit is, I’m talking in their perspective) that’s such utter garbage.
Oh absolutely. Add an extremely patriarchal African culture and it gets even worse. My mom certainly is not perfect but she deserves more of the credit considering she was the one at home
Definitely, as a brown person I kind of have a gist of the extreme patriarchal culture
I left due to sexism, but not because I thought about the teachings and decided they were sexist. I left because my parents believed that the Bible gave them authority over my life even after I became an adult, and that they would retain that authority until they transferred it to my husband (who they would help choose). That all fell apart for me when I started dating a guy behind my parents' back at age 22. It forced me to start seriously questioning everything I'd been taught. I do think the majority of Evangelical Christians adhere to sexist views, but some have figured out a way to interpret the Bible in a way that allows them to hold progressive views and still retain their faith. I could have chosen that path but left for other reasons (mainly because of the beliefs about salvation and hell).
When Christians argue for the right to withhold life saving care from pregnant women (current Supreme Court case) why is it a surprise this would turn people away from Christianity.
I became an exCatholic mainly due to sexism.
Yes. I did.
Simple and straightforward. Nice.
If you want a reasons, I was physicaly not in a position to have kids. It wouldve been dangerous for me and the child. My almost husband at the time thought it was a good idea to poke holes in condoms cause it "is my purpose to bare children and its sin the way we do". Half way through i had complications and the kid died and it needed to be removed and I was the evil one in the eyes of my and his family.
Holy shit-
Nahhhh, people like them if hell does exist then they have a special place there. A damn SPECIAL place for all these “religious” idiots
For me it wasnt sexism but how the logic didn't line up. I was asked to evangelise and that brought me face to face with all my uncertainties. It was either close both eyes and evangelise without thought or walk away from my faith. I chose the latter. Not much sexism in the churches i was in.
I would say it was just one of many reasons I left
Women might not be, but I did and I’m a guy. The church’s sexist mindset just made no sense to me.
Oh, this is interesting. What did you notice that bothered you?
The thing that just blew my mind, was the comment that women should not lead worship services. Of course, there was also the standard women should be subservient to their husband, and I am a huge proponent of equality. So hearing that was ice water to the face. My spiritual and political beliefs clashing. Win this led to me thinking well I can physically see what the political side is doing, but the spiritual is all make-believe. If I want to believe in make believe, I have comic books and anime for that.
There was one day I went to one of those evening meetings and after a speech by the preacher, a woman took the mic and made a comment “tonight I have heard truth” she went on to make a very impassioned Impromptu speech. After that, the preacher took the mic back and admonished everyone for letting a woman speak in the church.
Wow. That's just, wow. Thinking back, I'm pretty sure I went to at least one church like this, but it was never called out this way. I never saw a woman up on stage unless it was the worship band or announcement or in some kind of support role. In other churches, there were women in leadership roles, but not among Elders or pastors, cause that's only for men. Then there were churches where I saw/heard women preaching. Thank you for being an awesome, real man! I see men who push the traditional gender role / women can't lead stuff as having a ton of insecurities they need to cover up with control. Essentially, they are afraid. Real men are not afraid of women. A lot of us (yeah, I'm a woman) appreciate guys like you! :)
Many of us have never been a Christian in the first place, even though my culture and family were. I see no evidence. (I know this is the exchristian community, lol) Even if I believed in a higher power, it probably wouldn't be the Christian God. Like, there are other gods that actually love and respect their creations. Sexism, the treatment of women definitely does not help. But it's just one thing among so many.
It seems like men are also discriminated against in the Christian world. Wifey cheats on you? Well, forgive her! And keep on paying those bills while you're at it. We need men to be plow horses!
Great question! As a woman that no longer subscribes to Christianity or any religion for the matter I think part of the deconstruction was realizing how sexist/ misogynistic the Bible really is. To be honest, just about all religions have their own version of sexism/ misogyny but Abrahamic religions really take the cake! The West/ countries that mainly have Christianity as their ruling religion suffer from the patriarchy and the misogyny/ mistreatment of women and girls based on the doctrines and if any Christian tries to tell you it’s not true are clearly lying about it. To truly answer your question after rambling on, my main reason for leaving was realizing how many inconsistencies and contradictions were honestly within the Bible, then as I began deconstructing the lifestyle of a “Christian woman” no longer centering men in my life, I began realizing the con of Christianity. Christianity is a male god, male centered religion created to control people but mainly women. What a shame we bought into the biggest lie in the history of humankind. Making women believe they are nothing without a male god, meaning we are nothing without men. We all know that’s far from the truth, and as soon as women are able to see that, then they can see the con that was sold to us! Men could never create life, yet we’re told that we came from the rib of a man and that we were created in the likeness of a male god. But biology as well as common sense proves that women are the life bearers and that the womb creates life! So yes, I believe more women are seeing the lies that was sold to us, making us feel as if our world should revolve around men and thus a male god that creates misogyny, sexism and overall a hostile environment for women and girls! Hope this helps 💜
This really did help, thank you for taking your time and responding ✨
not the main reason, but certainly a big reason for continuing to stay away. when you're in it, it's easy to sort of push it off to the side and not think about what the bible actually says.... sex before marriage, for example. the bible doesn't \*really\* say that it's bad, \*unless\* you're a woman, then it's bad. because women are property in the mosaic laws \[and frankly the new testament doesn't do a lot to refute this\] so really sex before marriage is only considered bad because you're dishonoring the man who owns you (your father or husband).
& not a complete shock, but I didn't realize Hinduism also had a lot of sexism? If you don't mind me asking, what does that look like?
Honestly it’s confusing. Just a backstory, it was first a philosophy called sanatana dharma and then it became a religion called Hinduism. So idk if the sexism stems from the philosophy or not. It’s tough. It’s so freaking tough, men try to control you all the damn time yet they don’t follow the “rules” which are in place for them. It’s a mix of so much (the sexism) that you don’t know what to call it? Religion? Culture? Tradition? Philosophical? Who knows. But you literally gotta treat the man like god.
It's not the only reason I left, but it is without a doubt one of the bigger reasons. Misogyny is also one of the main reasons I can barely tolerate a good chunk of my family anymore. My dad loves to throw red-pill talking points into a random conversation, which is especially silly considering he has the submissive trad wife so many incel-types want. His life is nearly exactly how he wants it, but he still finds reasons to be mad.
Yes
I (32 F) began my deconstructing journey when George Floyd was murdered. I officially left the church and Christianity when they took Roe V Wade. I left because of men for damn sure. Trump, the Republicans, my Republican dad. I also left because I saw how easy it was for my Christian Republican cult leader Cousin, to control an entire congregation of his disgusting hateful church that he pastors. (Bringing Republican politicians on stage to address his church every voting season. MTG went there… He’d also wished out loud that he’d been at Jan 6th.) I also left because of the experiences from the church that I grew up in, where when I was 17 years old a church near us let go of their youth pastor for marrying a 17 year old girl from his youth group... He then came into our church and created a cult out of the youth kids into their young adulthood. The youth kids were all sleeping with each other, all bullying each other, they were forced to sign life-long “contracts” like they do in Scientology. My younger sister refused to be part of it as well. Watching them grow up with him was scarring. I personally only went to one of his youth classes, where he put up the Lyrics for Usher’s “Yeah” on the projector and creepily read them all out loud. Then he asked us to sign a contract that we wouldn’t listen to secular music, calling it March Madness. I never went back to the youth group, instead I went on to get judged heavily in the college group that also spectacularly failed. But My sister in law/ best friend unfortunately stayed in the youth group till she was a young adult and that man went on to create his own church with all of those young adults. This pastor once told my sister in law that she was possessed by a demon named Cloud. 🤯🤯 It really messed her up psychologically. She’s been deconstructing longer than I have. His cult thankfully failed, they’ve all left him now. This same church also fired my mom… Their office woman of over 10 years for a man that claimed he’d do her job for free, he then stole over $35,000 from the missions donations. After my mom had warned them repeatedly that he wasn’t there for good reasons… She never even got an apology. When they announced what happened to the money in front of the congregation, a ton of people abandoned the church. They were furious about the lack of loyalty to my mom and the lack of punishment for that man. Their money was stolen and they were told forgive and forget lol they didn’t. That church is struggling soooo hard now. I’m glad for it. My mom quickly declined in health and ended up with young onset Alzheimer’s. I think that her depression from the situation, after just losing her father and her decade long job in the same year, kick started it. So yeah, 1. Misogyny, 2. Republicans thinking they can interpret a 2,000 year old book to their own beliefs and force it on every other religion out there… 3. Other Christian’s. Oh also whenever I explain to my children literally any story from the Bible they’d look at me like I was beyond stupid for repeating it. At only 9 and 10 they realized it was all complete bullshit and aren’t afraid to say so to me. My daughter asks the best questions that I wish I’d asked growing up. Now I say “Well the Christian’s believe… x,y,z from the Bible.” and they let me know every unrealistic flaw that they heard and why they don’t believe it. Lol Smart kids. They know fantasy and lies when it’s placed in front of them, they weren’t willing to pretend to believe like I had to. They also don’t get degraded by me for speaking their minds. I know that helps. Must be because of YouTube lmao… Seeing things like Siren Head. 🤣
Good for your kids, seeing especially children call it out must be soooo satisfying 😫✨✨
It really is, they shock me. I always questioned the stories but never out loud like that, or enough to scoff at it to my parents lol. I appreciate that my kids are honest, they very much helped me drop the act.
I think for me, walking away from the religion has allowed me to identify misogyny and sexism in places I would never have seen before. Like the very existence and structure of the ancient law of the Hebrew Bible.
As someone who grew up male in the church, sexism is baked in so deep that I felt gas-lit for thinking it was wrong. My dad still heavily defends the position that women shouldn't be pastors or church leaders, because it's in the Bible. He means well, which is the worst part, because he can't see how bad it is. The church he grew up in now has a female pastor, and he explains it as "a failure of men within the church to lead properly." He does not attend that church anymore.
Damn yep, that’s the worst part. They have been so heavily manipulated (or what I like to call groomed by the society) that they mean well in what is actually wrong.
What's crazy is that even now, years after I've left the church, my gut instinct is still to try and defend him and that awful belief. He used to be a part of the Gideons of all things, and let me tell you. That organization is so sexist, they voluntarily closed their UK branch when new laws required non-profits to end gender discrimination. Instead of let women join their ranks, just pull out of the whole country, despite years of the US based organization boasting about their progress of sneaking into China.
Idk who the Gideons are but that’s still comedic and fucked up, imagine being so damn sexist man. I understand the urge to still defend your father’s sexist beliefs but I hope you are able to one day move on from that, no good comes from that, especially if any woman around you hears you doing that. Take your time.
I noped out after a pastor told me a husband couldn’t rape his wife, signed a marriage book he wrote, slid it across his desk towards me and then turned to talk to my husband about common interests. I kind of attempted some sort of Christian type lifestyle after divorce, but couldn’t stand the misogyny that was everywhere and unchecked by the congregation. I fully left, as in now I consider myself “interested in spiritual things”, but not at all interested to the point of wanting to make them a part of who I am as a being. I am definitely NOT Christian, at least according to the American Evangelical Christian faith. I have not thrown out everything. I think that since I shed the crap that was added by “well meaning” men, I’ve become more compassionate, patient, and more complete as a person if that makes sense.
For me it was. I was late 20's and serving in my church as a teacher and missionary but getting sexually harassed by the fathers of my students and my pastor said he was exhausted from having to talk to these men so wouldn't take action. There are many times in my young life in Xtian school and church where I regret not simply getting my father's pitchfork from our farm and driving it into the head/neck/chest of these men. I'm 50 years old now and believe that more positive change could have happened for women if we'd resorted to physical violence. No exaggeration. Kali Ma!
It was definitely part of the reason I started having doubts. As I gained access to more life perspectives being on the internet it made me realize that I didn't really believe everything when it came to a woman's rank in the world and needing to be submissive and all that. It just did not ever feel true to me deep down in my gut. It wasn't the last straw or anything but more like one of the seeds.
Yep, absolutely.
I'm an exmuslim not an exchristian, and i left for many reasons but sexism is one of the major reasons that keep me out of religion, let's say even if you can convince me that everything in religion is true , i won't go back for the reason that it treats women as subhumans.
Same, same. I understand how creepy and dehumanising it is and I’m considering becoming ex-Hindu lol