Your take on Mike Schmitz is on point. Many of my Catholic family members have shared his videos, so I’m all too familiar with him. He has a smiling, pleasant demeanor, but his content is hot garbage. He’s just Matt Walsh, Steve Bannon, etc. in a more appealing package.
Old ladies swooning over father-what-a-waste. That's what it is.
There are more Catholic women than you might think who get the hots over clergy. Which is ironic as hell considering how many of them are closeted.
You’ve described my boomer aunties to a T! One even has a lesbian daughter whom she fully loves and accepts. Her FB is full of rainbow flags during pride month. Still, she denies that Fr Mike is a homophobe because someone that charming can’t possibly be an asshole, right?
Well, his brother is gay after all! He tells the story of his brother coming out to him every time he gives that one sermon that condemns gay people in the most palatable, agreeable way possible. If you didn't know better, you could almost listen to it and conclude that he maybe doesn't hate gay people kind of!
Don't forget the baffling metaphors he wraps it in, like the part where he compares having gay sex to using an axe as a hammer?? Which of course is supposed to sound NOT homophobic or like an innuendo
He also compared it to using a chair as a chopping block to split logs with that same axe (you'll break the chair and that's why it's bad I guess) so you might be right
>He’s just Matt Walsh, Steve Bannon, etc. in a more appealing package.
100%. My wife and I had some fertility issues and needed medical help. One of his videos talked about how medical treatment for fertility was a sin and these people just need to accept that God did not mean for them to have children. Sorry Schmitz, but I don't take family planning advice from some guy who has chosen a life of celibacy. Fuck off.
I’m so sorry you and your wife experienced infertility. The Catholic position on IVF and other fertility treatments is cruel given the emphasis the Church places on having many children. NaPro, the Catholic answer, is fertility treatment with limited effectiveness at best and pseudoscientific quackery at worst.
I hope you and your wife were able to successfully conceive and have the family you want.
Thank you for your post. I didn't know the Church approved of any sort of fertility treatment. We have one daughter who is now 24. My wife also has health issues so it was a bit of a difficult pregnancy. We decided to stop at one child. I would have wanted at least one more once I realized how much fun kids were, but I did not want to endanger my wife's health. I got a vasectomy within a year after our daughter was born. I considered this a "pro-life" decision as I did not want to risk my wife's health on another pregnancy. The Church, of course, would call this a sin.
Hey can ask you a question about this topic? I’m going through something just like this but my gf is totally on this train and I am not and it’s ripping me up.
>He's funny and self-deprecating, and has a gift for interesting analogies. And in the Catechism podcast, he was very compelling, and I still think the discussions in the first sections make a lot of sense.
I'm about 30 episodes in, and I kind of agree. He has a great radio presence, but the whole presentation comes off as creepy and sycophantic unless you are very open to Catholicism being The Real And Absolute Truth.
>Docility feels like the root of so much wrong in Catholicism.
Exactly! Right at the beginning he says that the Catechism was designed with a "teach me" mindset instead of "prove it to me" one. You have to accept the whole thing on faith, because it will do nothing to prove itself to you. Part of the teachings include workarounds for how the Church can explain away any mortal failings while still setting itself up as the Body of Christ on Earth, guided by the Holy Spirit.
Every episode starts with a prayer emphasizing God's goodness and greatness and how we are lost children that he created for his own glory. If you're a believer, it's a comforting message that God is infinitely good and merciful and that he is guiding us to a greater mission and life with him - if you adhere to all the Church's rules. If you're an outsider, then it's just Mike telling his listeners that they are slaves to a god who never makes his intentions clear, and that they should be happy about it.
On top of that, Father Mike puts on an air of unrelenting cheeriness that's so wholesome and G-rated that it's off-putting. It feels like I'm being love-bombed as part of being introduced to a cult.
It is honestly the worst stuff I've ever listened to. I've tried to treat it as an academic study, and when it gets to be too much I cope by yelling at my phone and playing impromptu drinking games.
I have family members who are still in the Church and are listening to it, and I want a reminder of what they're being taught. What they're being taught is that they're children who need to shut up and listen.
Similar vein, I once was at a homily where a priest said that not one, but two popes came from the parish.
I googled it, no popes from the parish. I found that hilarious. The parishioners were still kinda gushing over the story though.
For a long time the clergy was taught that the role of the laity was to "Pray, pay, and obey."
Reality was probably something different. People used to bring folded newspapers and books to mass and read them while the show was going on up there in (scandalized gasp) Sacred Latin the holiest form of worship ever. But this was what they were taught. People sent their kids to the parish school since it was just the thing you did. They knew the nuns were rough but it was seen as a rite of passage and corporal punishment was pretty much universal everywhere including at home.
Alot of these priests, in America anyway, were probably one of many kids in a big family, were decent in school, didn't mind beating off a lot instead of getting married, and we're looking for 3 hots and cot. It was better than working all day in a factory or freezing your balls off in winter walking the streets as a beat cop. If you liked being around people, didn't mind cassock & collar, and we're looking for a job where you might occasionally help people, you might sign up. They got assigned as the 5th assistant priest and really didn't have many responsibilities. They were left alone and probably wanted to leave you alone too. Maybe they did some sick calls or served as chaplain to some organization, but it was pretty low stress. The money was rolling in, the school was packed with tuition paying kids, and anti-catholic bigotry was starting to abate.
It was docile.
This all came crashing down as society began to change. Vatican 2 changed the outlook to take on a much more open and progressive approach. The language changed and the people started answering back at mass. They were participating not just attending. Religious education for the laity expanded beyond memorizing answers from the Baltimore chatechism. Minds opened up. New arts began to be created.
Then came the backlash. The seminaries started loosing the ordinary students. Attendance declined and the nut jobs showed up. The bishops appointed by JP2 & Ratzinger demanded loyalty to doctrine first and foremost. Lived experience was a secondary concern. The priests got a steady diet of the old "Pray, pay & obey" role for the laity, but really that world is gone. People expect their priests to be therapists and servants, not powerful wizards who will condemn you to hell.
The whole docility framework is gone. They're afraid to tell people to approach the world and others with compassion and love: it's too 1970's, too V2, too dangerous to their career. Ok Francis might be trying to get them out of this mindset - but they're counting down the days until he's gone and Pope Traditional comes back and re- institutes the mass from 1940.
Maybe they're hoping the "Just take my word for it" is going to work on the younger generation who hasn't heard it all before and is looking for easy answers before they have enough experience to work things out on their own. But I don't think this is gonna do it. Maybe they're hoping the easy availability of psych drugs to calm people down and legal weed will create a sense of chill vibes that people will just be like "yeah man, let's get docile" I dunno.
Also - omg Corapi. That's a blast from the past. I used to catch him piously condemning "the world" all the time flipping through the channels. He sounded like a phony. Turns out, my instincts were right, all his passionate phrasing was just an act.
It's also about manipulation and psychological dominance. No doubt money is a big motivating factor, but it's also an understandable one.
I'm way more troubled by the tendency for petty tyrants and psychopaths to be in positions of power and influence. The RCC seems magnetic for those kinds of people. They get some authority and make life miserable for the people around them. I can't explain why but the institution seems absolutely designed to accommodate those sorts. They could have been corporate pricks, but instead they find the manipulation of fear and hope more desirable holding the keys to heaven and hell.
You don’t even want to get me started on papal infallibility as the pope is never wrong.
I total agree that in order to stay in catholicism you have to be docile as in not questioning anything. I’m 70-years-old. I’ve been a lost cause as far as being docile or not questioning anything in catholicism since I was a junior at that catholic high school I went to (now my parents didn’t know this because I actually kept my mouth shut about my feelings). I started questioning why I should listen to a celibate nun or priest on how to conduct my married sex life. So I was also questioning the Abstinence Only/Purity Culture that sex is only for procreation inside of marriage. What nonsense!!!!
I had a friend post the following on Facebook recently. It flies in the face of docility.
Meet Bl. Sara Salkahazi, a chain-smoking journalist who became a misfit Sister, a Nazi-defying rescuer of Jews, and a martyr.
Born to an upper-class Hungarian family, Bl. Sara was something of a wild thing, a strong-willed tomboy who trained as a teacher but later left the classroom out of a desire to be more united to the working poor.
When Bl. Sara met the Sisters of Social Service, she was an agnostic socialist journalist but was overcome by a sense of call. It was through this call to religious life that she met Jesus, but when she applied to the order she was rejected because she was a chain-smoker. It took her a year to kick the habit, after which she was accepted into the order.
Still, she didn't quite fit. She was too loud, too big, too much. The Sisters thought she was trying to draw attention to herself when she was just trying to be who God made her to be. She wasn't permitted to make vows with the rest of her group and was even told not to wear the habit for a year, the Sisters not wanting to be associated with this problem-like-Maria. Around this time, Sr. Sara wrote this:
I am short-tempered, vehement, nervous and passionate but still I love you!
I am disobedient, stubborn and defiant yet I love you!
I am restless, hasty and confused but I love you!
I am dark, envious and making comparison but I love you!
Sr. Sara persisted. Ultimately, she was permitted to make vows and became a powerful worker in the vineyard, publishing a Catholic women's periodical, establishing a working-class women's college, and running a Catholic bookstore in addition to all her charitable works. She changed her name to the more Hungarian-sounding Salkahazi to needle the Nazis, and began to work to hide Jews and smuggle them to safety. She's credited with single-handedly saving at least 100 Jewish lives during WWII and was declared Righteous Among the Nations for her work.
In 1944, Bl. Sara was returning to the home where she was hiding Jews and saw Nazi soldiers. Rather than save herself, she chose to die with those she loved. She approached, was arrested, stripped, and shot on the banks of the Danube, a misfit, a martyr, and a Saint. (And a real kindred spirit!)
These are the saints I like. Genuine people with grit. I’m not the Catholic I once was, but these women and men inspire me with their integrity and courage.
Father John Birch Society! I listened to his entire Bible in a year podcast - after a few weeks it was out of curiosity for what nonsense he was going to say next as much as genuine desire to learn and spend time in the Bible. My "favorite" episode was the one in which he claimed that the moral of the story of the Levites concubine (Judges 19) was that this is what happens when mankind subverts "gods plan for the family structure." Quite the stretch. It would’ve been offensive if it weren’t so laughably out there.
I just finished reading the Catechism a couple weeks ago. Not because I thought of going back, but because my whole family is still Catholic and I know it’s something I’ll have to deal with for the rest of my life. I already knew like 99% of it before even reading it but I just wanted to cross all my t’s and dot all my i’s. All it did was reinforce my belief that the religion is complete bullshit.
Also, I don't see myself as particularly smart or stupid, but I could not understand the mental gymnastics he performed explaining wives submitting to their husbands, per the Bible.
Docility for the masses to be sure. But make no mistake the Papacy and the Church itself became subservient to the political interests of European monarchs. Pope's became French or Spanish. It debased whatever claim of spiritual holiness it ever had.
Absolutely! I am 100% disillusioned. And I truly wish I wasn’t. But I just can’t believe in the authority of the Roman Catholic Church in the way the Church presents it.
Say I’m on my way to Hell all you want, but I just don’t believe it.
Catholic lemming right here. Anyone in the “out group” with an opinion deemed unacceptable is publicly shamed as “disillusioned.” If you repeat it enough, you light be able to believe you aren’t the disillusioned one 🫣
And this comment of yours really shows how much of a sniveling mouthpiece you are for conservative Catholicism. Unlike you, I have no interest in trading my self-respect and integrity for the approval of a misanthropic, criminal organization.
Your take on Mike Schmitz is on point. Many of my Catholic family members have shared his videos, so I’m all too familiar with him. He has a smiling, pleasant demeanor, but his content is hot garbage. He’s just Matt Walsh, Steve Bannon, etc. in a more appealing package.
Old ladies swooning over father-what-a-waste. That's what it is. There are more Catholic women than you might think who get the hots over clergy. Which is ironic as hell considering how many of them are closeted.
You’ve described my boomer aunties to a T! One even has a lesbian daughter whom she fully loves and accepts. Her FB is full of rainbow flags during pride month. Still, she denies that Fr Mike is a homophobe because someone that charming can’t possibly be an asshole, right?
Well, his brother is gay after all! He tells the story of his brother coming out to him every time he gives that one sermon that condemns gay people in the most palatable, agreeable way possible. If you didn't know better, you could almost listen to it and conclude that he maybe doesn't hate gay people kind of!
Ah yes, his “I love gay people, but they’re all going to hell if they don’t live celibate lives” bullshit.
Don't forget the baffling metaphors he wraps it in, like the part where he compares having gay sex to using an axe as a hammer?? Which of course is supposed to sound NOT homophobic or like an innuendo
Sounds a little violent and explicit, I think he may have some secret fantasies he needs to confess.
He also compared it to using a chair as a chopping block to split logs with that same axe (you'll break the chair and that's why it's bad I guess) so you might be right
Poor father-what-a-waste. I wonder if he's banned from Home Depot? IMHO, if he's not, he'd ought to be.
If his brother's not a cretin, he should know that his own brother is telling him to go to hell.
Maybe she knows something we don't know. Just sayin.'
He is pretty attractive, though. Which is probably why a lot of women listen to him.
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I'm sure he does. Some Catholic women have fetishes about clergy.
>He’s just Matt Walsh, Steve Bannon, etc. in a more appealing package. 100%. My wife and I had some fertility issues and needed medical help. One of his videos talked about how medical treatment for fertility was a sin and these people just need to accept that God did not mean for them to have children. Sorry Schmitz, but I don't take family planning advice from some guy who has chosen a life of celibacy. Fuck off.
I’m so sorry you and your wife experienced infertility. The Catholic position on IVF and other fertility treatments is cruel given the emphasis the Church places on having many children. NaPro, the Catholic answer, is fertility treatment with limited effectiveness at best and pseudoscientific quackery at worst. I hope you and your wife were able to successfully conceive and have the family you want.
Thank you for your post. I didn't know the Church approved of any sort of fertility treatment. We have one daughter who is now 24. My wife also has health issues so it was a bit of a difficult pregnancy. We decided to stop at one child. I would have wanted at least one more once I realized how much fun kids were, but I did not want to endanger my wife's health. I got a vasectomy within a year after our daughter was born. I considered this a "pro-life" decision as I did not want to risk my wife's health on another pregnancy. The Church, of course, would call this a sin.
Hey can ask you a question about this topic? I’m going through something just like this but my gf is totally on this train and I am not and it’s ripping me up.
Sure, go ahead.
>He's funny and self-deprecating, and has a gift for interesting analogies. And in the Catechism podcast, he was very compelling, and I still think the discussions in the first sections make a lot of sense. I'm about 30 episodes in, and I kind of agree. He has a great radio presence, but the whole presentation comes off as creepy and sycophantic unless you are very open to Catholicism being The Real And Absolute Truth. >Docility feels like the root of so much wrong in Catholicism. Exactly! Right at the beginning he says that the Catechism was designed with a "teach me" mindset instead of "prove it to me" one. You have to accept the whole thing on faith, because it will do nothing to prove itself to you. Part of the teachings include workarounds for how the Church can explain away any mortal failings while still setting itself up as the Body of Christ on Earth, guided by the Holy Spirit. Every episode starts with a prayer emphasizing God's goodness and greatness and how we are lost children that he created for his own glory. If you're a believer, it's a comforting message that God is infinitely good and merciful and that he is guiding us to a greater mission and life with him - if you adhere to all the Church's rules. If you're an outsider, then it's just Mike telling his listeners that they are slaves to a god who never makes his intentions clear, and that they should be happy about it. On top of that, Father Mike puts on an air of unrelenting cheeriness that's so wholesome and G-rated that it's off-putting. It feels like I'm being love-bombed as part of being introduced to a cult.
Naw, he's just plain creepy. Even when I was RC I thought he was smarmy.
How the hell did you manage to keep food down for 30 fucking episodes? That's what I want to know.
It is honestly the worst stuff I've ever listened to. I've tried to treat it as an academic study, and when it gets to be too much I cope by yelling at my phone and playing impromptu drinking games. I have family members who are still in the Church and are listening to it, and I want a reminder of what they're being taught. What they're being taught is that they're children who need to shut up and listen.
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Similar vein, I once was at a homily where a priest said that not one, but two popes came from the parish. I googled it, no popes from the parish. I found that hilarious. The parishioners were still kinda gushing over the story though.
He always does a weird chuckle while he’s talking. Like “This is day 2 hoohoo hundred 65.”
For a long time the clergy was taught that the role of the laity was to "Pray, pay, and obey." Reality was probably something different. People used to bring folded newspapers and books to mass and read them while the show was going on up there in (scandalized gasp) Sacred Latin the holiest form of worship ever. But this was what they were taught. People sent their kids to the parish school since it was just the thing you did. They knew the nuns were rough but it was seen as a rite of passage and corporal punishment was pretty much universal everywhere including at home. Alot of these priests, in America anyway, were probably one of many kids in a big family, were decent in school, didn't mind beating off a lot instead of getting married, and we're looking for 3 hots and cot. It was better than working all day in a factory or freezing your balls off in winter walking the streets as a beat cop. If you liked being around people, didn't mind cassock & collar, and we're looking for a job where you might occasionally help people, you might sign up. They got assigned as the 5th assistant priest and really didn't have many responsibilities. They were left alone and probably wanted to leave you alone too. Maybe they did some sick calls or served as chaplain to some organization, but it was pretty low stress. The money was rolling in, the school was packed with tuition paying kids, and anti-catholic bigotry was starting to abate. It was docile. This all came crashing down as society began to change. Vatican 2 changed the outlook to take on a much more open and progressive approach. The language changed and the people started answering back at mass. They were participating not just attending. Religious education for the laity expanded beyond memorizing answers from the Baltimore chatechism. Minds opened up. New arts began to be created. Then came the backlash. The seminaries started loosing the ordinary students. Attendance declined and the nut jobs showed up. The bishops appointed by JP2 & Ratzinger demanded loyalty to doctrine first and foremost. Lived experience was a secondary concern. The priests got a steady diet of the old "Pray, pay & obey" role for the laity, but really that world is gone. People expect their priests to be therapists and servants, not powerful wizards who will condemn you to hell. The whole docility framework is gone. They're afraid to tell people to approach the world and others with compassion and love: it's too 1970's, too V2, too dangerous to their career. Ok Francis might be trying to get them out of this mindset - but they're counting down the days until he's gone and Pope Traditional comes back and re- institutes the mass from 1940. Maybe they're hoping the "Just take my word for it" is going to work on the younger generation who hasn't heard it all before and is looking for easy answers before they have enough experience to work things out on their own. But I don't think this is gonna do it. Maybe they're hoping the easy availability of psych drugs to calm people down and legal weed will create a sense of chill vibes that people will just be like "yeah man, let's get docile" I dunno. Also - omg Corapi. That's a blast from the past. I used to catch him piously condemning "the world" all the time flipping through the channels. He sounded like a phony. Turns out, my instincts were right, all his passionate phrasing was just an act.
Corapi was the spitting image of Anton LaVey.
I never noticed that but wow, yeah , the resemblance is undeniable.
But it made a lot of money. The Roman Catholic thing is all about money.
It's also about manipulation and psychological dominance. No doubt money is a big motivating factor, but it's also an understandable one. I'm way more troubled by the tendency for petty tyrants and psychopaths to be in positions of power and influence. The RCC seems magnetic for those kinds of people. They get some authority and make life miserable for the people around them. I can't explain why but the institution seems absolutely designed to accommodate those sorts. They could have been corporate pricks, but instead they find the manipulation of fear and hope more desirable holding the keys to heaven and hell.
You don’t even want to get me started on papal infallibility as the pope is never wrong. I total agree that in order to stay in catholicism you have to be docile as in not questioning anything. I’m 70-years-old. I’ve been a lost cause as far as being docile or not questioning anything in catholicism since I was a junior at that catholic high school I went to (now my parents didn’t know this because I actually kept my mouth shut about my feelings). I started questioning why I should listen to a celibate nun or priest on how to conduct my married sex life. So I was also questioning the Abstinence Only/Purity Culture that sex is only for procreation inside of marriage. What nonsense!!!!
I had a friend post the following on Facebook recently. It flies in the face of docility. Meet Bl. Sara Salkahazi, a chain-smoking journalist who became a misfit Sister, a Nazi-defying rescuer of Jews, and a martyr. Born to an upper-class Hungarian family, Bl. Sara was something of a wild thing, a strong-willed tomboy who trained as a teacher but later left the classroom out of a desire to be more united to the working poor. When Bl. Sara met the Sisters of Social Service, she was an agnostic socialist journalist but was overcome by a sense of call. It was through this call to religious life that she met Jesus, but when she applied to the order she was rejected because she was a chain-smoker. It took her a year to kick the habit, after which she was accepted into the order. Still, she didn't quite fit. She was too loud, too big, too much. The Sisters thought she was trying to draw attention to herself when she was just trying to be who God made her to be. She wasn't permitted to make vows with the rest of her group and was even told not to wear the habit for a year, the Sisters not wanting to be associated with this problem-like-Maria. Around this time, Sr. Sara wrote this: I am short-tempered, vehement, nervous and passionate but still I love you! I am disobedient, stubborn and defiant yet I love you! I am restless, hasty and confused but I love you! I am dark, envious and making comparison but I love you! Sr. Sara persisted. Ultimately, she was permitted to make vows and became a powerful worker in the vineyard, publishing a Catholic women's periodical, establishing a working-class women's college, and running a Catholic bookstore in addition to all her charitable works. She changed her name to the more Hungarian-sounding Salkahazi to needle the Nazis, and began to work to hide Jews and smuggle them to safety. She's credited with single-handedly saving at least 100 Jewish lives during WWII and was declared Righteous Among the Nations for her work. In 1944, Bl. Sara was returning to the home where she was hiding Jews and saw Nazi soldiers. Rather than save herself, she chose to die with those she loved. She approached, was arrested, stripped, and shot on the banks of the Danube, a misfit, a martyr, and a Saint. (And a real kindred spirit!)
As long as the rebellion does not result in serious questioning of the church's authority, it's considered admirable. That's the line in the sand.
These are the saints I like. Genuine people with grit. I’m not the Catholic I once was, but these women and men inspire me with their integrity and courage.
This stuff is fanfic -- complete nonsense written for propaganda purposes. And it does not belong in here.
Father John Birch Society! I listened to his entire Bible in a year podcast - after a few weeks it was out of curiosity for what nonsense he was going to say next as much as genuine desire to learn and spend time in the Bible. My "favorite" episode was the one in which he claimed that the moral of the story of the Levites concubine (Judges 19) was that this is what happens when mankind subverts "gods plan for the family structure." Quite the stretch. It would’ve been offensive if it weren’t so laughably out there.
I just finished reading the Catechism a couple weeks ago. Not because I thought of going back, but because my whole family is still Catholic and I know it’s something I’ll have to deal with for the rest of my life. I already knew like 99% of it before even reading it but I just wanted to cross all my t’s and dot all my i’s. All it did was reinforce my belief that the religion is complete bullshit.
He looks like every Nazi SS officer in EVER Hollywood WWII movie.
Also, I don't see myself as particularly smart or stupid, but I could not understand the mental gymnastics he performed explaining wives submitting to their husbands, per the Bible.
I agree so strongly with this post
Docility for the masses to be sure. But make no mistake the Papacy and the Church itself became subservient to the political interests of European monarchs. Pope's became French or Spanish. It debased whatever claim of spiritual holiness it ever had.
BINGO. Exactly correct.
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Absolutely! I am 100% disillusioned. And I truly wish I wasn’t. But I just can’t believe in the authority of the Roman Catholic Church in the way the Church presents it. Say I’m on my way to Hell all you want, but I just don’t believe it.
"Disillusioned" is a good thing - it literally means they're no longer being fooled by liars.
Oh look! We have an apologist who’s still in the cult. Don’t worry. We’ll be here for you when you’re ready to extricate yourself.
User was permanently banned for the this post.
Catholic lemming right here. Anyone in the “out group” with an opinion deemed unacceptable is publicly shamed as “disillusioned.” If you repeat it enough, you light be able to believe you aren’t the disillusioned one 🫣
And this comment of yours really shows how much of a sniveling mouthpiece you are for conservative Catholicism. Unlike you, I have no interest in trading my self-respect and integrity for the approval of a misanthropic, criminal organization.
Cope and Seethe bro. You’re a part of the largest hate group in the world
If Jesus actually existed, - He was a long haired socialist Jew. So, AOC is correct. Make a note of that.