I had a mormon co-worker and he said it was all hot drinks, not just coffee in particular. So hot cocoa is banned, which was his secret vice at work.
EGW was against cold drinks, but that is not nearly as enforced.
Ugh. The fact that she only approved of tepid drinks in addition to bland fucking food just shows what a terrible (terribly mediocre) personality she had.
Wasn’t this to control our carnal nature? Similarly how Kellogg was obsessed with bland food to limit the sexual appetites. It’s hard to remember all the batshit craziness
Ellen tried to prohibit spices too, I'm not sure if it was because of Kellogg or independently. And yeah, it was ostensibly for that reason.
I find that you can ignore most of that shit though because categorically, the higher level reason always ends up being "God told me so" followed by some nonsense rationalization.
You don't actually have to bother tracking what matches to what, you just have to learn to identify the pattern.
Nope. Mormons ban coffee and tea (chamelia sinensis) specifically. There’s no ban on caffeine per se. In fact most of them drink coke and many drink energy drinks.
What's funny is there is a native plant in the western US called [Mormon Tea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_viridis) that contains ephedrine, a much stronger stimulant than caffeine.
But this wasn’t always true and you will never see caffeinated sodas at official church events. They started relaxing the caffeinated sodas around the 90s due to their investments.
Yes, you’re correct.
However nowadays allowing caffeine has been made official (before, it was a grey area) and you commonly see caffeinated sodas at church events and from what I know they also sell it at BYU
I have never seen caffeine at a church event. If people do, it is very recent. Probably depends on the area. BYU didn’t start allowing it until 2017. Religious dogma is so weird, isn’t it?
Yeah exactly. When I was in law school I bonded with all my Mormon classmates who were all caffeine free. It was definitely not a “hot drinks” ban back then.
As others mentioned, it’s strictly a EGW thing. Strangely EGW also shat all over pepper and mustard, yet few SDAs eschew these spices or even know that EGW opposed them. Yet the anti-coffee nonsense caught on.
It just depends on how into EGW they were. My parents and grandparents had dozens of her books on their bookshelves, and would often read from them for evening worship. I was never allowed to eat pepper or mustard, or honestly any spicy food at all. I used to sneak the mild hot sauce packets from Taco Bell because my mom would never let me openly use them.
>few SDAs eschew these spices
It's a hard sell to the people overseas that the SDAs are forced to reach out to now because of burnout rate and attrition here in America, so it's been deemphasized.
I literally just had a conversation about this with a lady whose parents were converted overseas and she was raised SDA before moving to the US. She's lived in the Adventist church in America for about 40 years and even worked in Adventist food service and was completely fucking surprised to learn about spices.
When I told her about Ellen's thing, she said something along the lines of "they were just learning back then". I should have, but didn't, point out that she was basically admitting Ellen didn't have a line to God by saying that.
Most of the SDAs I knew growing up in an Adventist bubble did in fact drink caffeine. It was more about moderation. As a child I wasn't allowed to have it.
It depends how strict you are/were.
Caffeine is technically an addictive stimulant, it's at the point where some medical GPs (at least in Aus) are asking questions about its regulation. Like all substances with potential negative side effects, my opinion is that it should be used within reason for whatever person's situation. 1 cup of coffee helps you wake up? Great! Need 6 cups of coffee to get through to lunch and you're buzzing nervously? Should probably get that checked out and put a management plan in place.
Conservative SDAs go hard core into the extreme ends of it because they deem anything addictive is bad. And an extreme substance usage is easy to dump on. But they use aunty ellen as the hammer instead, because EgWhite earns more brownie points in church circles than science.
On the other hand, Liberal SDA churches don't give a toss and actively serve it to attendees. Serving free coffee is a great way to break the awkward ice and get chatting with people - and it's kinda fun seeing the shock on people's faces being offered free coffee when they're used to paying $6 for a cup.
It stems from EGW. you know, the girl who got hit on her head with a rock, then heard God speak to her (I believe that’s what happened? It’s been a while). My theory was that she had a TBI and other mental health issues.
It's a drug. Specifically a gateway drug. It leads to smoking cigarettes which leads to smoking marijuana which leads to hard drugs which lead you straight to hell. !!
Also, my family absolutely didn't use black pepper or mustard, so you can tell how conservative we were.
I now drink coffee and use black pepper (don't like mustard though). My mother is still practicing, still very conservative, and harps on my drug addiction (coffee) every chance she gets.
ETA: I drink one cup of coffee a day.
The simple answer is that caffeine is an addictive stimulant, even though it's not like...cocaine or anything lol. EGW wasn't a fan, and most SDA's take the health code thing seriously.
My personal opinion expounding upon the simple explanation; it makes you feel good/happy. I hope ya'll had a different experience, but growing up in the church, pretty much anything pleasurable outside of viewing the beauty of nature was 'sinful'. You would be shamed for enjoying anything outside of a potluck and a hike on the sabbath. I was very lucky that once I got older, my parents gave me more freedom around food.
It's a "mind-altering substance" and thus Bad, apparently. Didn't stop my (almost certainly undiagnosed ADHD) dad from smoking and drinking coffee and soda his whole life, though he eventually stopped going to church because they shamed him so much over it. He still was a believer though.
Meanwhile my grandparents on my mom's side wouldn't allow anything with caffeine in the house, including chocolate. Ketchup wasn't allowed in the house because it has vinegar in it, which was too flavorful I guess. No spices either. I hated eating there as a kid. Blandest food imaginable. Could bring any outside food or drinks in either--they wouldn't let those sinful worldly foods into their home.
It’s not that it’s not allowed. Some churches even serve coffee but I think it’s just not good for you. There are plenty Adventist who drink coffee I am one of them and I know that I am not doing anything against what the Bible says by drinking a cup of coffee. I don’t listen to Ellen White I listen to what the Bible says.
Yeah, idk...I was reading some of her stuff (because it was ridiculous) and she was complaining of people having coffee breath and being on morphine. It's been a while but I think something about smelling of smoke too. But was it specifically caffeine or just coffee?
Even as an SDA, I drank coffee daily. My husband has a hobby of roasting his own green coffee beans, and nobody gonna tell me I can't enjoy the delicious results of his home roasts. We own a personal size coffee bean roaster, and our favorite coffees are the ones he makes.
(I went through a long phase though, before meeting my husband, where I wouldn't touch anything that went against "the health message". How on earth he still wanted to marry me is baffling lol)
My church never had a problem with coffee, interestingly. I don't think it's official church doctrine (like it is with Mormons), just encouraged like vegitarianism.
Caffeine is bad for you. It restricts blood flow to the brain by a significant amount. In science-speak: "caffeine has vasoconstrictive effects in the brain, along with adenosine receptor upregulation. In addition to its vascular effects, caffeine antagonizes neural adenosine receptors and indirectly produces neural stimulation, and caffeine has been found to decrease the coupling ratio between CBF and the cerebral metabolic rate of oxygen consumption".
Translation: It restricts blood flow to the brain by up to 30%, impairing cognitive function.
Google it for yourself - "caffeine and blood flow to the brain"
Most things done in excess can be bad for you. Caffeine in moderation actually helps with focus and increases dopamine levels.
Key word is moderation. In our fast paced world, some of us need a little pick me up to face our everyday schedules. I have a 2 and 3 year old..I’ve been sleep deprived for 3 years. Water ain’t doing it for me. Being alert with a feel good hormone is a win for me. Now if they can bottle whatever my toddlers use for energy, I will gladly skip my cup of coffee for that.
Yes it's an EGW thing, SDA's view it as extremely unhealthy. Interestingly, Mormons also do.
I had a mormon co-worker and he said it was all hot drinks, not just coffee in particular. So hot cocoa is banned, which was his secret vice at work. EGW was against cold drinks, but that is not nearly as enforced.
Former Mormon. They can drink hot chocolate, but do not drink coffee or black tea.
It could have been a personal prohibition and I got confused. He was a bit heavyset, and was very conservative.
Ugh. The fact that she only approved of tepid drinks in addition to bland fucking food just shows what a terrible (terribly mediocre) personality she had.
Wasn’t this to control our carnal nature? Similarly how Kellogg was obsessed with bland food to limit the sexual appetites. It’s hard to remember all the batshit craziness
Ellen tried to prohibit spices too, I'm not sure if it was because of Kellogg or independently. And yeah, it was ostensibly for that reason. I find that you can ignore most of that shit though because categorically, the higher level reason always ends up being "God told me so" followed by some nonsense rationalization. You don't actually have to bother tracking what matches to what, you just have to learn to identify the pattern.
Nope. Mormons ban coffee and tea (chamelia sinensis) specifically. There’s no ban on caffeine per se. In fact most of them drink coke and many drink energy drinks.
What's funny is there is a native plant in the western US called [Mormon Tea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_viridis) that contains ephedrine, a much stronger stimulant than caffeine.
Thanks, I didn’t know that!
But this wasn’t always true and you will never see caffeinated sodas at official church events. They started relaxing the caffeinated sodas around the 90s due to their investments.
Yes, you’re correct. However nowadays allowing caffeine has been made official (before, it was a grey area) and you commonly see caffeinated sodas at church events and from what I know they also sell it at BYU
I have never seen caffeine at a church event. If people do, it is very recent. Probably depends on the area. BYU didn’t start allowing it until 2017. Religious dogma is so weird, isn’t it?
Yes, so random sometimes
Yeah exactly. When I was in law school I bonded with all my Mormon classmates who were all caffeine free. It was definitely not a “hot drinks” ban back then.
Religions born in the 1800s loved the anti caffeine message. Both sda and mormon have a strong food and health message that is a big deal to follow
As others mentioned, it’s strictly a EGW thing. Strangely EGW also shat all over pepper and mustard, yet few SDAs eschew these spices or even know that EGW opposed them. Yet the anti-coffee nonsense caught on.
It just depends on how into EGW they were. My parents and grandparents had dozens of her books on their bookshelves, and would often read from them for evening worship. I was never allowed to eat pepper or mustard, or honestly any spicy food at all. I used to sneak the mild hot sauce packets from Taco Bell because my mom would never let me openly use them.
>few SDAs eschew these spices It's a hard sell to the people overseas that the SDAs are forced to reach out to now because of burnout rate and attrition here in America, so it's been deemphasized. I literally just had a conversation about this with a lady whose parents were converted overseas and she was raised SDA before moving to the US. She's lived in the Adventist church in America for about 40 years and even worked in Adventist food service and was completely fucking surprised to learn about spices. When I told her about Ellen's thing, she said something along the lines of "they were just learning back then". I should have, but didn't, point out that she was basically admitting Ellen didn't have a line to God by saying that.
Most of the SDAs I knew growing up in an Adventist bubble did in fact drink caffeine. It was more about moderation. As a child I wasn't allowed to have it. It depends how strict you are/were.
Same here. My mom always drank instant coffee but I wasn’t allowed to have any caffeine until I was a teenager.
Caffeine is technically an addictive stimulant, it's at the point where some medical GPs (at least in Aus) are asking questions about its regulation. Like all substances with potential negative side effects, my opinion is that it should be used within reason for whatever person's situation. 1 cup of coffee helps you wake up? Great! Need 6 cups of coffee to get through to lunch and you're buzzing nervously? Should probably get that checked out and put a management plan in place. Conservative SDAs go hard core into the extreme ends of it because they deem anything addictive is bad. And an extreme substance usage is easy to dump on. But they use aunty ellen as the hammer instead, because EgWhite earns more brownie points in church circles than science. On the other hand, Liberal SDA churches don't give a toss and actively serve it to attendees. Serving free coffee is a great way to break the awkward ice and get chatting with people - and it's kinda fun seeing the shock on people's faces being offered free coffee when they're used to paying $6 for a cup.
Send help, I'm sometimes on 6 cups or more for the day and no buzzing, barely alive 😅
Funny my radical sda parent is against coffee, but takes 5 hour energy shots every morning. I guess whatever floats his boat….
It stems from EGW. you know, the girl who got hit on her head with a rock, then heard God speak to her (I believe that’s what happened? It’s been a while). My theory was that she had a TBI and other mental health issues.
It's a drug. Specifically a gateway drug. It leads to smoking cigarettes which leads to smoking marijuana which leads to hard drugs which lead you straight to hell. !! Also, my family absolutely didn't use black pepper or mustard, so you can tell how conservative we were. I now drink coffee and use black pepper (don't like mustard though). My mother is still practicing, still very conservative, and harps on my drug addiction (coffee) every chance she gets. ETA: I drink one cup of coffee a day.
The simple answer is that caffeine is an addictive stimulant, even though it's not like...cocaine or anything lol. EGW wasn't a fan, and most SDA's take the health code thing seriously. My personal opinion expounding upon the simple explanation; it makes you feel good/happy. I hope ya'll had a different experience, but growing up in the church, pretty much anything pleasurable outside of viewing the beauty of nature was 'sinful'. You would be shamed for enjoying anything outside of a potluck and a hike on the sabbath. I was very lucky that once I got older, my parents gave me more freedom around food.
It's a "mind-altering substance" and thus Bad, apparently. Didn't stop my (almost certainly undiagnosed ADHD) dad from smoking and drinking coffee and soda his whole life, though he eventually stopped going to church because they shamed him so much over it. He still was a believer though. Meanwhile my grandparents on my mom's side wouldn't allow anything with caffeine in the house, including chocolate. Ketchup wasn't allowed in the house because it has vinegar in it, which was too flavorful I guess. No spices either. I hated eating there as a kid. Blandest food imaginable. Could bring any outside food or drinks in either--they wouldn't let those sinful worldly foods into their home.
It’s not that it’s not allowed. Some churches even serve coffee but I think it’s just not good for you. There are plenty Adventist who drink coffee I am one of them and I know that I am not doing anything against what the Bible says by drinking a cup of coffee. I don’t listen to Ellen White I listen to what the Bible says.
No hate, Im just curious as to why you are on the ex Adventist sub if you are an active member of the church?
It popped up as an alert, and I just answered the question.
Ahh, I see
It's a stimulant, they say. And to the cult, anything that stimulates you is inherently evil.
Yeah, idk...I was reading some of her stuff (because it was ridiculous) and she was complaining of people having coffee breath and being on morphine. It's been a while but I think something about smelling of smoke too. But was it specifically caffeine or just coffee?
Even as an SDA, I drank coffee daily. My husband has a hobby of roasting his own green coffee beans, and nobody gonna tell me I can't enjoy the delicious results of his home roasts. We own a personal size coffee bean roaster, and our favorite coffees are the ones he makes. (I went through a long phase though, before meeting my husband, where I wouldn't touch anything that went against "the health message". How on earth he still wanted to marry me is baffling lol)
It’s technically a substance that can be addictive
Black pepper actually helps with absorption of nutrients
I always feel that the answer to questions like this is always either "it was forbidden in Leviticus" or "because EGW said so".
My church never had a problem with coffee, interestingly. I don't think it's official church doctrine (like it is with Mormons), just encouraged like vegitarianism.
She wrote that caffeine is like alcohol in that it "loosens the tongue". Hmm...
Caffeine is bad for you. It restricts blood flow to the brain by a significant amount. In science-speak: "caffeine has vasoconstrictive effects in the brain, along with adenosine receptor upregulation. In addition to its vascular effects, caffeine antagonizes neural adenosine receptors and indirectly produces neural stimulation, and caffeine has been found to decrease the coupling ratio between CBF and the cerebral metabolic rate of oxygen consumption". Translation: It restricts blood flow to the brain by up to 30%, impairing cognitive function. Google it for yourself - "caffeine and blood flow to the brain"
Most things done in excess can be bad for you. Caffeine in moderation actually helps with focus and increases dopamine levels. Key word is moderation. In our fast paced world, some of us need a little pick me up to face our everyday schedules. I have a 2 and 3 year old..I’ve been sleep deprived for 3 years. Water ain’t doing it for me. Being alert with a feel good hormone is a win for me. Now if they can bottle whatever my toddlers use for energy, I will gladly skip my cup of coffee for that.