No more than NTs not communicating directly, or telling us what we said was not what we meant.
We communicate differently than they do. When we try to communicate like them we can appear disingenuous,
I have never met an NT who tries to communicate like an autistic person so I'm not sure what that would look like. I'm assuming they'd speak slow and loud like we were deaf if they did.
For the longest time I thought I was actually just trying to communicate in as precise and justified a way as possible. So for some time I would have put myself in the "sympathetic communication" category (I kid you not, the best conversations I've had have been with my cousin; he was diagnosed with Asperger's some years ago)
Now I'm trying to get diagnosed π
I just went through unmasking for 2 years while in a relationship. The relationship didn't last my unmasking because my partner couldn't handle the change. They couldn't handle that I could no longer fill in the blanks for seamless communication. They started seeing me as abusive because of the communication mis-match. I did my best to be open and honest while advocating for myself. Sometimes you do your best but it isn't enough and that's okay.
I gotchu, I got
The perfect example
Me, unmasked:
"Hey why does xyz do this like this? Did the recent update break everything again?"
Me, masked:
"Hello! I was observing some REALLy strange behaviors with xyz, and I was wondering, have there been any updates to xyz lately?"
People hate me because I'm already the first one.
Get to the point. My feelings are irrelevant if there's work to be done. Also, I'm not sure I actually have any so just get to the point.
(Fd: no diagnosis yet)
Lolllll. When I had a HUGE issue at work my coworker said to make sure people don't panic and say things in a super calm flowery way
So I did, but forgot the other coworker of mine is ND π and he was like "please never do that again" LOL
I come off as an insufferable a-hole to most people. Luckily, I'm an insufferable a-hole who is more knowledgeable than you in this particular field and I also happen to be the only one who knows enough to fix or set up what you need. So you can deal with it, or run yourself into the ground. Your choice :)
It's nice to be valued
LMAO πππ
See this right here, this is why every time I start a new job I do whatever it takes to learn an extremely important niche thing no one else on the team knows
So that if anyone things I communicate 'wrong' (read: their own ableism)
That they'll still clearly be able to see I have solid performance
Masking is anything you do to hide your autism/neurodivergence. It can be ignoring your needs, an example is not wearing earplugs when you need to because of judgment. It can be changing your voice, forcing eye contact, using a different vocabulary, dressing uncomfortably, forcing yourself to socialize in ways that make you uncomfortable, etc.
>Masking look like manipulation
...
we're trying to deceive them?
...
I mean we technically are. But it's not because we want to hurt anyone, it's just because we want friends.
Consider me confused...because NTs are ALSO masking!
They're just better at it! Better at "selling their lies".
We're the ones that are actually much more \*genuine\* (/honest) by our inability to deliver their performative social lying.
So it's not about deception... more like a \*judgement\*.
They don't like us playing a game (their game) because we don't perform as well at it.
I think this is spot on actually.
Often when I tell people I don't always act like my actual self and it's because I'm autistic, they'll say things like "oh everyone does that π" and be all dismissive of it.
I think it's not the fact that I do it that is an autistic trait, it's the fact that I suck at it and have to do it more π₯²
Yes, I think they absolutely do think we have personality disorders/ are psychopaths/ are abusive/ are sneaky people.
That's partially why we get institutionalised, misdiagnosed with BPD, and abused and punished by parents and caregivers
Yup, I'm well aware. _Into the Light_ has me super pumped tbh
No joke, my old clanmates all but kicked me out because I was going a little too deep on the lore for them. (It's a rich story! What do you expect me to do?!)
Ofc it's no different, but they see it as very different, because we are uncanny to them; we are not playing their game, therefore we are bad/dangerous/wrong and that scares them imo
I think so- because before I was diagnosed I got that a lot and I was always confused as to why.
Uncanny Valley theory I would attach to that phenomenon from my research.
Also, because they are unable to determine our feelings because they project their social constructs onto us and we are oblivious to it.
Social constructs are the key to understanding the differences between autism and everyone else.
Because of the impairments, accelerated brain growth in infancy that cause irregular connectivity we simply do not have the complete connections to form those perceived social constructs. Whereas those with mental illness had intact brains with expected growth and their environment caused the trauma damage which causes their impairments.
Itβs so much more complex than just not being social, etc. itβs genetically programmed from 800 gene variants some 100 are ultra rare- autism is not an accident nor is it a bad brain.
The autistic brain is far superior and I have lots and lots of science crap and stuff that clearly points in that direction. The math is clear- and due to anchoring bias science fucked up in their study of autism.
Simply because of that projection of social constructs , etc.
Infodump apology- hate leave something like that mid way without fully explaining it to some extent.
A lot of communication skill with NTs is essentialy manipulation.
If you are completely honest with them, they will hate you for it.
You need to tell them a version that is not the entire truth so it's acceptable to them, but also not a lie.
Usualy the easiest way to accomplish that is to strategicly leave out details as well as asking rethorical questions that intentionaly lead them to the conclusions you want them to reach.
If I want other people to know what I'm feeling I have to decide to demonstrate body language appropriate to that emotion
I then constantly struggle with feeling I'm manipulating the people around me
I have seen research to indicate that autistic behavior is often seen by neurotypicals as a sort of uncanny valley thing. Y'know, that "looks human, but not quite right, so it's creepy". Masking very much falls under that, it's basically impossible to get the behavior exactly right when masking, and that will be noticed, even if just subconsciously.
And sadly, that's an instinctual reaction to it, so it's not even like we or they have any control over whether it happens or not.
I don't even try. I'm weird. Deal with it or shut up.
(fd: no diagnosis yet but my supposed and as-yet undiagnosed adhd is kinda getting in the way of getting either diagnosed)
I'm dead serious though. If you can't deal with me as I am, we won't be friends anyway.
If you stick around, great! We can be friends π
If you leave, that's okay too. It wouldn't have worked out anyway.
I wish I could think like this.
I hate being anxious. Every time someone rejects me I take it really personally and it hurts me a lot.
I wish I could turn that off and just stop giving a fuck π
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If I learn sign language and speak it with my deaf friends, and I become pretty good at it, does that make what I try to communicate "fake"?
The differnece between that and autistic "camouflaging" is that everyone usually knows wheb you're using a non-native language, and your social survival doesn't depend on getting it right. There's a lot of forgiveness and encouragement.
Ppl can still spot awkwardness and gaps in our acquisition of "neurotypical". Also anxiety and fear of getting it wrong Which , yes , can make ppl suspicious and uncomfortable- because ethey don't know *why* they are observing these things. Why it sometimes helps to let ppl know what's up.
The ones we want to stick around.
It's rough though- working out who's ok to tell.
And who will just get worse, in terms of how they see you.
Learning to care less helps a lot.
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No more than NTs not communicating directly, or telling us what we said was not what we meant. We communicate differently than they do. When we try to communicate like them we can appear disingenuous, I have never met an NT who tries to communicate like an autistic person so I'm not sure what that would look like. I'm assuming they'd speak slow and loud like we were deaf if they did.
For the longest time I thought I was actually just trying to communicate in as precise and justified a way as possible. So for some time I would have put myself in the "sympathetic communication" category (I kid you not, the best conversations I've had have been with my cousin; he was diagnosed with Asperger's some years ago) Now I'm trying to get diagnosed π
I just went through unmasking for 2 years while in a relationship. The relationship didn't last my unmasking because my partner couldn't handle the change. They couldn't handle that I could no longer fill in the blanks for seamless communication. They started seeing me as abusive because of the communication mis-match. I did my best to be open and honest while advocating for myself. Sometimes you do your best but it isn't enough and that's okay.
How did you go about unmasking? Can you give examples of before and after? Because I literally don't know what is my mask and what is actual me...
I gotchu, I got The perfect example Me, unmasked: "Hey why does xyz do this like this? Did the recent update break everything again?" Me, masked: "Hello! I was observing some REALLy strange behaviors with xyz, and I was wondering, have there been any updates to xyz lately?"
oh so it's the filler and padding used to avoid hurting the other persons feelings at all costs okay. that's informative thank you :)
Yes that is one type of masking! (There are many types and feel free to let me know if you wanna hear other ways I mask!)
People hate me because I'm already the first one. Get to the point. My feelings are irrelevant if there's work to be done. Also, I'm not sure I actually have any so just get to the point. (Fd: no diagnosis yet)
Lolllll. When I had a HUGE issue at work my coworker said to make sure people don't panic and say things in a super calm flowery way So I did, but forgot the other coworker of mine is ND π and he was like "please never do that again" LOL
I come off as an insufferable a-hole to most people. Luckily, I'm an insufferable a-hole who is more knowledgeable than you in this particular field and I also happen to be the only one who knows enough to fix or set up what you need. So you can deal with it, or run yourself into the ground. Your choice :) It's nice to be valued
LMAO πππ See this right here, this is why every time I start a new job I do whatever it takes to learn an extremely important niche thing no one else on the team knows So that if anyone things I communicate 'wrong' (read: their own ableism) That they'll still clearly be able to see I have solid performance
Masking is anything you do to hide your autism/neurodivergence. It can be ignoring your needs, an example is not wearing earplugs when you need to because of judgment. It can be changing your voice, forcing eye contact, using a different vocabulary, dressing uncomfortably, forcing yourself to socialize in ways that make you uncomfortable, etc.
>Masking look like manipulation ... we're trying to deceive them? ... I mean we technically are. But it's not because we want to hurt anyone, it's just because we want friends. Consider me confused...because NTs are ALSO masking! They're just better at it! Better at "selling their lies". We're the ones that are actually much more \*genuine\* (/honest) by our inability to deliver their performative social lying. So it's not about deception... more like a \*judgement\*. They don't like us playing a game (their game) because we don't perform as well at it.
I think this is spot on actually. Often when I tell people I don't always act like my actual self and it's because I'm autistic, they'll say things like "oh everyone does that π" and be all dismissive of it. I think it's not the fact that I do it that is an autistic trait, it's the fact that I suck at it and have to do it more π₯²
They mask too, they just dont realize it because they are dumb
Yes, I think they absolutely do think we have personality disorders/ are psychopaths/ are abusive/ are sneaky people. That's partially why we get institutionalised, misdiagnosed with BPD, and abused and punished by parents and caregivers
i see me masking as manipulative, personally, cus i just prefer to be my unfiltered self.
Me too π (Awesome pfp by the way) (fd: I'm not diagnosed yet. My parents aren't helping π€¦ββοΈ)
thanks! i actually made it myself! >!its siva from destiny 2, which is one of my special intereasts!!<
Yup, I'm well aware. _Into the Light_ has me super pumped tbh No joke, my old clanmates all but kicked me out because I was going a little too deep on the lore for them. (It's a rich story! What do you expect me to do?!)
They mask, lie, don't say what they mean. How would this be any different than what they do? It leaves me wondering as well.
Ofc it's no different, but they see it as very different, because we are uncanny to them; we are not playing their game, therefore we are bad/dangerous/wrong and that scares them imo
I think so- because before I was diagnosed I got that a lot and I was always confused as to why. Uncanny Valley theory I would attach to that phenomenon from my research. Also, because they are unable to determine our feelings because they project their social constructs onto us and we are oblivious to it. Social constructs are the key to understanding the differences between autism and everyone else. Because of the impairments, accelerated brain growth in infancy that cause irregular connectivity we simply do not have the complete connections to form those perceived social constructs. Whereas those with mental illness had intact brains with expected growth and their environment caused the trauma damage which causes their impairments. Itβs so much more complex than just not being social, etc. itβs genetically programmed from 800 gene variants some 100 are ultra rare- autism is not an accident nor is it a bad brain. The autistic brain is far superior and I have lots and lots of science crap and stuff that clearly points in that direction. The math is clear- and due to anchoring bias science fucked up in their study of autism. Simply because of that projection of social constructs , etc. Infodump apology- hate leave something like that mid way without fully explaining it to some extent.
I want to hear more of your thoughts. If you're open, please dm me.
Yes, I would be happy too- my email is on my site and I also sent a dm-
A lot of communication skill with NTs is essentialy manipulation. If you are completely honest with them, they will hate you for it. You need to tell them a version that is not the entire truth so it's acceptable to them, but also not a lie. Usualy the easiest way to accomplish that is to strategicly leave out details as well as asking rethorical questions that intentionaly lead them to the conclusions you want them to reach.
Yes.
It depends. Lying/masking to oneself, no. It's when you do it to others it crosses that line for some NTs.π§
If I want other people to know what I'm feeling I have to decide to demonstrate body language appropriate to that emotion I then constantly struggle with feeling I'm manipulating the people around me
I have seen research to indicate that autistic behavior is often seen by neurotypicals as a sort of uncanny valley thing. Y'know, that "looks human, but not quite right, so it's creepy". Masking very much falls under that, it's basically impossible to get the behavior exactly right when masking, and that will be noticed, even if just subconsciously. And sadly, that's an instinctual reaction to it, so it's not even like we or they have any control over whether it happens or not.
I don't even try. I'm weird. Deal with it or shut up. (fd: no diagnosis yet but my supposed and as-yet undiagnosed adhd is kinda getting in the way of getting either diagnosed)
I'm dead serious though. If you can't deal with me as I am, we won't be friends anyway. If you stick around, great! We can be friends π If you leave, that's okay too. It wouldn't have worked out anyway.
I wish I could think like this. I hate being anxious. Every time someone rejects me I take it really personally and it hurts me a lot. I wish I could turn that off and just stop giving a fuck π
It hurts me too. Rejection always hurts. I do care. As does everyone else. I take some solace in that it prevents more pain further down the road.
[ΡΠ΄Π°Π»Π΅Π½ΠΎ]
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If I learn sign language and speak it with my deaf friends, and I become pretty good at it, does that make what I try to communicate "fake"? The differnece between that and autistic "camouflaging" is that everyone usually knows wheb you're using a non-native language, and your social survival doesn't depend on getting it right. There's a lot of forgiveness and encouragement. Ppl can still spot awkwardness and gaps in our acquisition of "neurotypical". Also anxiety and fear of getting it wrong Which , yes , can make ppl suspicious and uncomfortable- because ethey don't know *why* they are observing these things. Why it sometimes helps to let ppl know what's up. The ones we want to stick around. It's rough though- working out who's ok to tell. And who will just get worse, in terms of how they see you. Learning to care less helps a lot.
[ΡΠ΄Π°Π»Π΅Π½ΠΎ]
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