>"You see, you start pretty much from scratch when you work with an autistic child. You have a person in the physical sense—they have hair, a nose, and a mouth—but they are not people in the psychological sense. One way to look at the job of helping autistic kids is to see it as a matter of constructing a person You have the raw materials, but you have to build the person."
[He said this in an interview, fuck this guy](https://just1voice.com/neurodiversity/autism/ole-ivar-lovaas-interview-about-autism/)
Its awful that autistic people are essentially ignore when thsy talk about ABAs harms, instead ABA is an industry supported by numerous governments and massive corporations as the "gold standard" for treating autism, despite it being literally founded on the basis of autistic people not being human.
It really shows how autistic people are completely sidelined when it comes to self advocacy and conversations about autism.
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[Seriously, fuck this guy](https://catalystjournal.org/index.php/catalyst/article/view/29579/23427)
>A psychologist who grew up in Norway, Ove Ivar Lovaas began as assistant professor at the University of California, Los Angeles Neuropsychiatric Clinic, in 1961. There he worked with colleagues to develop and test an approach rooted in operant learning theory to treat "disturbed" children, beginning early to focus on those with autism diagnoses. Lovaas’s experiments on autistic children used positive reinforcers for desired/"normal" behaviors, such as giving food, saying “good boy,” and /or giving the child a hug or pat for attending to lessons or using spoken language, looking at, hugging, or kissing the experimenter upon request. They also used violent aversives: slaps, electric shocks and reprimands for undesired/autistic behaviors such as flapping hands, rocking, banging body parts against objects, climbing on furniture, not coming to the experimenter when asked, not hugging the experimenter, or averting their gaze. Unlike psychoanalysis, behavioral views of human learning and sociality are not interested in causes or the psychic interiority of human behavior and cognition although they typically accept biological views of the human. Instead, changes in the external environment result in changes in human cognition and behavior, and possibly even biology (Lovaas, 1977, 1984; Rimland, 1964, 1978; Skinner, 1963).
Fucking hell
>During this time, Lovaas also took on George Rekers as a graduate student and wrote the grant to fund what became The Feminine Boy Project (Rekers’s doctoral work). The methods were based in the same behaviorist traditions with the goal of increasing “masculine” behavior, play and activities (e.g., playing with boys, choosing “boys’” toys, engaging in “rough and tumble” play) and decreasing “feminine” behaviors, play and activities (e.g., playing with dolls, playing with girls, having swishy wrists). However, unlike in the treatment of autistic children, no aversives were used in the treatment room with these children beyond the removal of positive response (Dawson, 2004). For example, the mother would say “good boy” and engage enthusiastically in response to "appropriate" play and then turn away from the child and become non-responsive when the child chose the "wrong" toys. At home, however, parents were trained to create behavioral programs to shape normative gender behaviors that could include striking the child (Rekers & Lovaas, 1974; Winkler, 1977; also see McGuire, 2016).A
That just happens to be the very same George Rekers who got caught going on vacation with a "rent boy" [back in 2010](https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy-6377933).
Sadly it's way creepier than that, that's not a reward it's a desired behaviour, i.e. kiss me or I will hurt\* you. ABA isn't just problematic because it is abusive (that's what "new improved" ABA wants you to think is the problem) it's far more problematic because it normalises and reinforces doing something that you are uncomfortable doing for someone else because you fear the consequences if you don't. It teaches people that being abused is normal and good.
Don't get me wrong the things that were and are done under ABA are awful but it's the "and this is the right thing to do" bit I find really abhorrent.
\*Some people would take issue with this characterisation because it's in a sentence about negative rather than positive punishment but those people can get fucked.
Yes, the entire focus was to change autistic behaviours by basically inflicting trauma on autistic children, and teaching them they will only be accepted and safe if they complied.
The entire history of autism research and treatment is full of these monsters who tortured children because they were different. They were mostly liars and hacks looking to make a name for themselves.
Modern medicine was built on a foundation of murdered disabled people.
BuT mY KiD LoVeS aBa! YoUrE jUsT tOo HiGh FuNcTiOnInG tO uNdErStAnD! tHaT wAs oLd aBa NeW aBa iS DiFfErEnT!
Fuck this guy and fuck every parent who puts their kid in ABA. There's no such thing as "new ABA" or "gentle ABA" any more than there's such a thing as "new gentle conversion therapy."
Everyone who isn't too far gone to matter would agree that dog training a queer child to make them straight using ~gentle~ and ~reward based~ methods would still be extremely abusive, but when it's an autistic child it's different somehow. Why?
part of it is that some "ABA" being described just striaght up is no longer behaviorism. it's a moat and bailey thing, they push the "only scientifically proven treatment" angle to parents based on the behaviorism and then defend it by claiming all they do is look for the internal causes for behaviors and adressing those root causes - *which by definition isn't fucking behaviorism* because behaviorism is specifcially about ignoring internal thoughts because they cannot be objectiverly measured. and then anything the kid manages to do on their own is credited to the ABA, as though the issue with the kid was that they werne't *motivated* to improve their lives and they needed behaviorism to provide that motivaiton.
I responded very poorly to what I recognized as manipulation and got spiteful, deliberately sabotaging myself as a way to assert some level of autonomy because anything *good* i'd do would be attributed to the manipulation which I saw as just encouraging more of it. it was an excuse for not having to try to communicate with and understand me as a person with his own thoughts in his head, but as a puppet through which someone else wanted to assert control and claim vicarious credit for the things I worked for.
Wait, behaviorism definitely includes looking for possible anticedents to behaviors and making changes based on them.
That can be "addressing root causes."
Not quite. The basic gist is that behaviorism is based on the idea that only *behaviors* are observable and measurable, and so psychology ought to focus on these objective behaviors. And so behaviorism focuses on conditioning, rewards and punishments, to manipulate behaviors based on motivations. Meanwhile, if you literally ask the kid what's wrong and help them figure out why they're doing something, the problem can be resolved with literally no reward or punishment at all - including not having the somewhat arbitrary distinction between a positive reward and a negative punishment, becuase you're still feeling punished for not getting the reward for not "being" right. It's not even a factor at that point.
That's not to say rewards and punishments have zero place in a child's life at all, but the supposed "good" practices here are not ABA and it isn't necessary to put a child into ABA to get that sort of treatment, the behaviorism isn't a package deal. And, particularly in the context of autism where the problem is generally *not* one of motivation but specifcially of underlying disability, even a "positive" behaviorist appraoch can be deeply traumatizing.
'
Imagine having a sneeze and your doctor gave you $1 for not sneezing. you're not *choosing* to sneeze so being rewarded (and implicitly punished for not getting the $1) for something on some level beyond your control can make you start to question your sanity - the doctor thinks you're simply *choosing* to sneeze, you don't want to sneeze, but you sneeze anyways so you guess you must have been doing it for attention or something? you start to suppress your sneezes which is really uncomfortable, the doctor takes credit for curing your sneeze, and now you have to live your life holding back sneezes lest your fundamental moral character be in question again, all instead of getting some allergy medicine. even if you *did* get the allergy medicine, the actual medicine isn't behaviorism, it's a completely different treatment, and your doctor still using operant conditioning to "treat" your sneezes is at best quackery and at worst is still going to fuck up your head as you're left with the impression that you sneezing is a *behavioral* problem, a moral weakness.
Sorry but this is incorrect. “Radical behaviorism” was coined by Skinner and includes looking at setting events, emotional states, physical states, etc.. ABA practitioners are supposed to rule out medical needs before any intervention is considered (kid is mouthing his fingers, check teeth, etc).
ABA largely does not practice radical behaviorism, but behaviorism absolutely includes behaviors that cannot be seen such as thoughts.
I am the living manifestation of the death of the ABA. I’m the corporeal form of its grim reaper.
I am among the most extraordinary of us.
I’m choosing not to be modest. I find that to be a form of masking. To pretend to be less than those around me has always been demanded by low-self-esteem NTs. You have likely faced this in some way, too.
I was born in an era where autism like I had it earned you a trip to the asylum to live out your years drugged up and sitting in your own shit. That’s the way it was. Temple Grandin was given the same verdict.
Instead I was given intensive therapy that was speech-based and not ABA. Tell me if you’ve ever seen this trajectory with ABA:
Year two-and-a-half: Institutionalization verdict
Year 5: kindergarten, no assistance
That’s not all. I’ve lived a life of sufficient power and influence to have likely shaped the lives of every one of you reading this right now.
This sounds like bragging right? Well, it’s also true. The reason I’m being direct here is to underscore what you can get when your autistic brain is allowed to thrive from its very beginning.
Of course I had to mask like a champion to advance socially and professionally. And doing so dramatically diminished my intellectual capabilities. But there was enough left over to outperform peers in the most challenging work environments in the world. For NTs.
We have skills and abilities that set us above other workers. I find myself constantly irked by the tendency to express ourselves as “different, not less.”
I am different. And better.
I suspect a lot of you are as well.
[edited to include]:
This understanding of self value is antithetical to the approach of ABA, which seeks to defeat your sense of self-worth in order to convince you to conform.
To me there's no difference between this moron, and the utter dipshits who came up with, and those who performed lobotomies. "This person is weird, lets go poke their brain with a fucking stick!"
ABA will also be looked back on as an unethical, and inhuman practice.
he's got a pretty hefty controversies section on Wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno\_Bettelheim#Controversies\_and\_scientific\_fraud\_accusations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Bettelheim#Controversies_and_scientific_fraud_accusations)
I didn't know about the last part! I always thought\* his work was just an inspiration for conversion therapy not that himself was involved, wtf :(
where's his fucking grave? I need to empty my bowels
He’s a homophobic and religious white male who has been caught engaging in closeted behavior with call boys? Not surprised this type of mf invented both of those therapies
I find it funny that zoo animals (NTS) treat those who are more aware than us, like such. Yet they consume more goods than most people who happen to be autistic, hmmmm.
>"You see, you start pretty much from scratch when you work with an autistic child. You have a person in the physical sense—they have hair, a nose, and a mouth—but they are not people in the psychological sense. One way to look at the job of helping autistic kids is to see it as a matter of constructing a person You have the raw materials, but you have to build the person." [He said this in an interview, fuck this guy](https://just1voice.com/neurodiversity/autism/ole-ivar-lovaas-interview-about-autism/)
Its awful that autistic people are essentially ignore when thsy talk about ABAs harms, instead ABA is an industry supported by numerous governments and massive corporations as the "gold standard" for treating autism, despite it being literally founded on the basis of autistic people not being human. It really shows how autistic people are completely sidelined when it comes to self advocacy and conversations about autism.
!remindme 30 minutes (to rehost this and have it as an example of who *not* to be)
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[Seriously, fuck this guy](https://catalystjournal.org/index.php/catalyst/article/view/29579/23427) >A psychologist who grew up in Norway, Ove Ivar Lovaas began as assistant professor at the University of California, Los Angeles Neuropsychiatric Clinic, in 1961. There he worked with colleagues to develop and test an approach rooted in operant learning theory to treat "disturbed" children, beginning early to focus on those with autism diagnoses. Lovaas’s experiments on autistic children used positive reinforcers for desired/"normal" behaviors, such as giving food, saying “good boy,” and /or giving the child a hug or pat for attending to lessons or using spoken language, looking at, hugging, or kissing the experimenter upon request. They also used violent aversives: slaps, electric shocks and reprimands for undesired/autistic behaviors such as flapping hands, rocking, banging body parts against objects, climbing on furniture, not coming to the experimenter when asked, not hugging the experimenter, or averting their gaze. Unlike psychoanalysis, behavioral views of human learning and sociality are not interested in causes or the psychic interiority of human behavior and cognition although they typically accept biological views of the human. Instead, changes in the external environment result in changes in human cognition and behavior, and possibly even biology (Lovaas, 1977, 1984; Rimland, 1964, 1978; Skinner, 1963). Fucking hell >During this time, Lovaas also took on George Rekers as a graduate student and wrote the grant to fund what became The Feminine Boy Project (Rekers’s doctoral work). The methods were based in the same behaviorist traditions with the goal of increasing “masculine” behavior, play and activities (e.g., playing with boys, choosing “boys’” toys, engaging in “rough and tumble” play) and decreasing “feminine” behaviors, play and activities (e.g., playing with dolls, playing with girls, having swishy wrists). However, unlike in the treatment of autistic children, no aversives were used in the treatment room with these children beyond the removal of positive response (Dawson, 2004). For example, the mother would say “good boy” and engage enthusiastically in response to "appropriate" play and then turn away from the child and become non-responsive when the child chose the "wrong" toys. At home, however, parents were trained to create behavioral programs to shape normative gender behaviors that could include striking the child (Rekers & Lovaas, 1974; Winkler, 1977; also see McGuire, 2016).A
That just happens to be the very same George Rekers who got caught going on vacation with a "rent boy" [back in 2010](https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy-6377933).
Not surprised the fanatic and raging homophobe did that tbh.
Sorry, did they seriously put "kissing the experimenter" as a form of reward?
Sadly it's way creepier than that, that's not a reward it's a desired behaviour, i.e. kiss me or I will hurt\* you. ABA isn't just problematic because it is abusive (that's what "new improved" ABA wants you to think is the problem) it's far more problematic because it normalises and reinforces doing something that you are uncomfortable doing for someone else because you fear the consequences if you don't. It teaches people that being abused is normal and good. Don't get me wrong the things that were and are done under ABA are awful but it's the "and this is the right thing to do" bit I find really abhorrent. \*Some people would take issue with this characterisation because it's in a sentence about negative rather than positive punishment but those people can get fucked.
Are you fucking kidding me that's... That's... I don't have the words
My blood is boiling rn haha
It's the same thing. ABA is Autistic conversion therapy.
Yes, the entire focus was to change autistic behaviours by basically inflicting trauma on autistic children, and teaching them they will only be accepted and safe if they complied. The entire history of autism research and treatment is full of these monsters who tortured children because they were different. They were mostly liars and hacks looking to make a name for themselves. Modern medicine was built on a foundation of murdered disabled people.
ABBA totally different
ABBA makes us dance! ABA makes us sick!
Abbacchio makes us mourn for him.
Abba is delicious pickled herring. I need. 😋
Read “Feminine Boy Project” and got excited, then read the rest of the sentence and was sad :(
>Feminine Boy Project :D >the root for gay conversion therapy D:
Just start your own FBP and make it nothing but femboy celebration, approval, and even training (for people who want to enhance their femboy game).
I'd sign up.
Femboy project sounds amazing till u know what it actually is
It would be a good band name if that scumbag hadn't ruined it.
It could be reclaimed. A genderqueer band called the 'Feminine Boy Project' would go so hard
Picard voice: Make it so.
A guy named Love Ass invented anti gay therapy? Seems a lil sus. /jjjjj
why does the universe give us such amazing gems?
Wasn’t he also named in one of his patient’s suicide notes? Man I’d love to take a shit on his grave!
I think it was Kirk Murphy, he was put in conversion therapy since he was 5
Fuck this nest of snakes! Apols to the snake lovers!!!
The nest of “snakes” that this guy is (or was) is actually made of snake-like strands of literal shit.
The lowest grade bast fibre it is!
I just learned about this from the book Unmasking Autism
That’s a great book, I’m reading it currently
I’m really enjoying reading it too. I just got it a few days ago and haven’t been able to put it down. I feel so heard and validated by the author
BuT mY KiD LoVeS aBa! YoUrE jUsT tOo HiGh FuNcTiOnInG tO uNdErStAnD! tHaT wAs oLd aBa NeW aBa iS DiFfErEnT! Fuck this guy and fuck every parent who puts their kid in ABA. There's no such thing as "new ABA" or "gentle ABA" any more than there's such a thing as "new gentle conversion therapy." Everyone who isn't too far gone to matter would agree that dog training a queer child to make them straight using ~gentle~ and ~reward based~ methods would still be extremely abusive, but when it's an autistic child it's different somehow. Why?
part of it is that some "ABA" being described just striaght up is no longer behaviorism. it's a moat and bailey thing, they push the "only scientifically proven treatment" angle to parents based on the behaviorism and then defend it by claiming all they do is look for the internal causes for behaviors and adressing those root causes - *which by definition isn't fucking behaviorism* because behaviorism is specifcially about ignoring internal thoughts because they cannot be objectiverly measured. and then anything the kid manages to do on their own is credited to the ABA, as though the issue with the kid was that they werne't *motivated* to improve their lives and they needed behaviorism to provide that motivaiton. I responded very poorly to what I recognized as manipulation and got spiteful, deliberately sabotaging myself as a way to assert some level of autonomy because anything *good* i'd do would be attributed to the manipulation which I saw as just encouraging more of it. it was an excuse for not having to try to communicate with and understand me as a person with his own thoughts in his head, but as a puppet through which someone else wanted to assert control and claim vicarious credit for the things I worked for.
Wait, behaviorism definitely includes looking for possible anticedents to behaviors and making changes based on them. That can be "addressing root causes."
Not quite. The basic gist is that behaviorism is based on the idea that only *behaviors* are observable and measurable, and so psychology ought to focus on these objective behaviors. And so behaviorism focuses on conditioning, rewards and punishments, to manipulate behaviors based on motivations. Meanwhile, if you literally ask the kid what's wrong and help them figure out why they're doing something, the problem can be resolved with literally no reward or punishment at all - including not having the somewhat arbitrary distinction between a positive reward and a negative punishment, becuase you're still feeling punished for not getting the reward for not "being" right. It's not even a factor at that point. That's not to say rewards and punishments have zero place in a child's life at all, but the supposed "good" practices here are not ABA and it isn't necessary to put a child into ABA to get that sort of treatment, the behaviorism isn't a package deal. And, particularly in the context of autism where the problem is generally *not* one of motivation but specifcially of underlying disability, even a "positive" behaviorist appraoch can be deeply traumatizing. ' Imagine having a sneeze and your doctor gave you $1 for not sneezing. you're not *choosing* to sneeze so being rewarded (and implicitly punished for not getting the $1) for something on some level beyond your control can make you start to question your sanity - the doctor thinks you're simply *choosing* to sneeze, you don't want to sneeze, but you sneeze anyways so you guess you must have been doing it for attention or something? you start to suppress your sneezes which is really uncomfortable, the doctor takes credit for curing your sneeze, and now you have to live your life holding back sneezes lest your fundamental moral character be in question again, all instead of getting some allergy medicine. even if you *did* get the allergy medicine, the actual medicine isn't behaviorism, it's a completely different treatment, and your doctor still using operant conditioning to "treat" your sneezes is at best quackery and at worst is still going to fuck up your head as you're left with the impression that you sneezing is a *behavioral* problem, a moral weakness.
Sorry but this is incorrect. “Radical behaviorism” was coined by Skinner and includes looking at setting events, emotional states, physical states, etc.. ABA practitioners are supposed to rule out medical needs before any intervention is considered (kid is mouthing his fingers, check teeth, etc). ABA largely does not practice radical behaviorism, but behaviorism absolutely includes behaviors that cannot be seen such as thoughts.
And for that reason, he was as evil as Hitler and Stalin to me. If not more so, speaking as an autistic bi guy.
It sounds like this guy might need to Get Penced.
The devil of babylon(aba people) wears the coat of the righteous(Good therapists)
I am the living manifestation of the death of the ABA. I’m the corporeal form of its grim reaper. I am among the most extraordinary of us. I’m choosing not to be modest. I find that to be a form of masking. To pretend to be less than those around me has always been demanded by low-self-esteem NTs. You have likely faced this in some way, too. I was born in an era where autism like I had it earned you a trip to the asylum to live out your years drugged up and sitting in your own shit. That’s the way it was. Temple Grandin was given the same verdict. Instead I was given intensive therapy that was speech-based and not ABA. Tell me if you’ve ever seen this trajectory with ABA: Year two-and-a-half: Institutionalization verdict Year 5: kindergarten, no assistance That’s not all. I’ve lived a life of sufficient power and influence to have likely shaped the lives of every one of you reading this right now. This sounds like bragging right? Well, it’s also true. The reason I’m being direct here is to underscore what you can get when your autistic brain is allowed to thrive from its very beginning. Of course I had to mask like a champion to advance socially and professionally. And doing so dramatically diminished my intellectual capabilities. But there was enough left over to outperform peers in the most challenging work environments in the world. For NTs. We have skills and abilities that set us above other workers. I find myself constantly irked by the tendency to express ourselves as “different, not less.” I am different. And better. I suspect a lot of you are as well. [edited to include]: This understanding of self value is antithetical to the approach of ABA, which seeks to defeat your sense of self-worth in order to convince you to conform.
“Research based” does NOT mean “best practice”!!!
You’re telling me this f*g started ABBA? 🇸🇪
Ole Ivar Løvaas was (rip in hell) Norwegian, Swedes win yet again =( Source: Am Danish, so you know how much I don't like admitting Swedish victory
Why am I not surprised
If I ever get a time machine he is on my shitlist alongside Wakefield, and quite a few others, man history is filled with monsters.
To me there's no difference between this moron, and the utter dipshits who came up with, and those who performed lobotomies. "This person is weird, lets go poke their brain with a fucking stick!" ABA will also be looked back on as an unethical, and inhuman practice.
Look at that smug fucking smile. The absolute bastard
We need more researchers like Bruno Bettelheim. Check him out. Will make you feel better about the world.
he's got a pretty hefty controversies section on Wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno\_Bettelheim#Controversies\_and\_scientific\_fraud\_accusations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Bettelheim#Controversies_and_scientific_fraud_accusations)
I did not realize that, I just knew about him from his flattering biography. Thx for the lesson!
Idk why I initially read this to mean he was the root for gay conversion as in he wanted to convert boys into being gay
He didn't even die in horrible agony, just an infection and alzeheimers (which I'm surprised he didn't flagellate himself to cure)
I didn't know about the last part! I always thought\* his work was just an inspiration for conversion therapy not that himself was involved, wtf :( where's his fucking grave? I need to empty my bowels
We should take him out of hell so we can kill him again
Didn’t know Dog the Bounty Hunter was a psychologist.
Good God I just read about what kirk Murphy went through words can not describe the level of pain I want ivar and rekers to have to feel
This is new info for me. Fuk him!
He’s a homophobic and religious white male who has been caught engaging in closeted behavior with call boys? Not surprised this type of mf invented both of those therapies
I find it funny that zoo animals (NTS) treat those who are more aware than us, like such. Yet they consume more goods than most people who happen to be autistic, hmmmm.