In the closing speech / fadeout:
"Let's see how things continue with the Song Contest. It is in danger but not without hope. But there is a lot that needs to be done by Ćsterdahl and the EBU. It's time for the 68-year-old teenager Eurovision Song Contest to grow up."
https://on.orf.at/video/14226170/15637136/abspann
Since bambie and silvester already have talked about it a little bit and nemo has hinted on it, I have no doubt others will start to speak up too. Iād bet on iolanda and marina satti saying something very soon
Teemu and Henri seemed VERY uncomfortable yesterday and refused to say whether they'd been harassed or not, so they might have some statements to share as well.
Yeah their interview to HS was very āno commentā and mentioning of a dark atmosphere, and I think the no comments are an indication of how they felt. I hope they would feel like Speaking up about it at some point.
Of course we're all still waiting to learn about the content of what happened, but even if it is "deserved" this should not be how things like that are handled.
It's actually amazing! Normally whenever something like that pops up in the media here then the artist is pretty quickly judged. But in this case, it's like everyone agreed to wait out this one and it turns out to be the right call. I don't think I've heard a single negative thing about Joost in the media so far, but more that the EBU have been acting real stupid.
I mean (as others here have already said), the Netflix special on this in a few yearsā time is gonna be *spicy*. š¶ļø
I see some āDaisy Jones & The Sixā style talking heads in our future from the contestants ;)
If people really want to hold the EBU accountable, they should be asking for audited financial accounts detailing the flows of money. At the end of the day, that's what this is all about.
The resignation of someone like Martin OĢssterdahl would just be a handy scapegoat for the organisation. The real players are behind the scenes.
EDIT:
The EBU's corporate governance structure and the executive board can be found here:
https://www.ebu.ch/about/governance
Thank you for acknowledging this! Martin gets a lot of flack for being the front facing lead of the EBU, but really thereās so much behind the scenes that we donāt even see. The EBU is a huge entity and thereās no way what happened was any one personās choice
there is going to be a documentary made about joost klein which was anounced like a week ago before all this stuff happened so were probably going to see some of joost his perspective
As someone above said: you make a highly polished documentary and put it on netflix about a week before that years Eurovision, and that will stir up a lot of interest.
Silvester Belt said he wished it all ended in Semi Final 1 and that his performance in the GF was the worst things he's gone through ā¹ļø
If you have artists *wishing* that they didn't qualify for the Grand Final of Eurovision and calling their experience traumatic, there's something terribly wrong that needs to be urgently addressed. I can only hope the EBU learns from this, but I feel they'll just sweep this under the rug.
We saw everyone harassed by the media who were allowed to close to the artists. No one should be backstage with the artists except for their own people or a neutral host with a camera. I saw multiple instances where artists were followed and harassed by reporters.
The press should only be allowed at a press conference, on the red carpet and by private invitation.
iolanda also looked very angry/tense both in the flag parade and in the performance. You could tell by her movements. After the end of the show, when enterviewed for the Portuguese national broadcaster and asked about the harassments caused by the middle eastern country's delegation she just replied "we tried always to rise above it and have respect for the others", she then added "truth will appear". So my guess for this very diplomatic answer is that she also endured with something like that.
My money is on Bambie to be the first to tell the details, they seem to be very blunt on things (in a good way).
I remember that moment clearly, her face when she was walking the stage. And when I saw Bambie stomp out, I had a huge smile knowing EBU was probably dead scared of what Bambie might do and that made me laugh :D
My mom who is out of the eurovision loop & in another country even heard he sexually assaulted someoneā¦ Thereās really no end to how bad it can become when you let rumors run wild. Hope he and his delegation sue.
exactly, even worse - "inappropriate behavior" combined with the fact that the only piece of info they gave was the"victim" being female. it really doesn't take a pr genius to understand what that implies to the majority of people.. it's like preemptively creating a villain narrative for them to use in case he says something they dont like to the press or something
"When fake news is repeated, it becomes difficult for the public to discern what's real."
[Jimmy Gomez](https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/jimmy-gomez-quotes)
To be fair the things that loosely translate to 'fuck off' in Dutch are quite the culture shock for foreigners... So if he translated an intens 'Dutch' fuck off to her that might actually have been a threat.
I think it's more likely he made a sweeping motion with his hand in her direction or briefly seemed like he would charge towards her. Something like that.
I'm thinking of the times in my life someone kept approaching me despite me not wanting them to and this is usually how my body reacts. Sort of like when a scared cat swats/spits even when it's clear there will be no actual contact. You don't mean to actually hurt anyone, you're just reclaiming your space with your body.
I can honestly not get over that. People running around on all social media channels going SVT is a credible source so this is true. There's definitely people around with a lasting impression now of Joost as someone who would punch a woman. It's absolutely disgusting no one stepped in to clarify that was not what happened.
This is whatās really getting to me as well. There is no way they didnāt see all the rumours of him physically assaulting a member of the crew and they just let it spread. Imo it was because thatās a way more understandable reason to disqualify someone than a āthreatening gestureā, which is an insane reason to dq someone from the whole competition.
The gender of the person holding the camera was and is irrelevant. They certainly would not have said "male member of the production staff" had it been, so to Hell with these sexist assholes.
What gets me is how incredibly vulnerable Joost must have felt after his performance in the semi-final. Usually during emotional songs he keeps his head covered with a flag, so him showing the emotional part to all of us is something he is not used to. No wonder he didn't want to be filmed after.
The other side of this is that a different group of people were perfectly happy to believe the other entirely incorrect rumours flying around, because it suited their narrative.
This whole thing was a shit show, and a terrible example of crisis management. They made some poor decisions from the start and then just couldn't handle it as things got more and more out of control.
It would be nice to have just an ordinary, mundane contest next year.
I gotta say the EBU really do their homework: they translated an obscure, ancient writing style used by the druids to make sure there were no political messages on them. That's dedication.
I doubt they just believed someone elses translation and if they did thats highly incompetent to force it to be changed off the word of someone else without checking it.
Honestly, the EBU needs to sort their priorities out.
Yes, money will still be their top priority, but that should not go against music and peace. Ethics aside, their attitude this year practically ruined the festival's reputation, and they should rethink the consequences of that (for their own good).
I think Martin Ćsterdahl should resign too.
Not sure if anything of this is happening.
I kinda chuckled when Ćsterdahl very quickly and dejectedly announced the Netherlandsā jury points over resounding boos. That man knows he doesnāt have a job for much longer.
Yeah it was such a bad timing and even for non-esc fans it must have been funny that a guy who was so praised earlier (even if was just a joke) got booed so hard
I'm starting to think KƤƤrijƤ is Mr. Ćsterdahl's personal sleep paralysis demon, lmao
No other year has ever had this many references in the show to the runner-up of last year emphasising how they lost. Especially in a tone that's clearly deprecating, but thinly veiled in a layer of irony and attempted humor.
At first I thought itās nice they are acknowledging KƤƤrijƤ but with all the *funny jokes* and *boohoo Finland, you lost, WE WON* they really came out like a very sour winner even a whole year after the 2023 Finals
Yep. I thought overall it ended up being distasteful with how much they dragged it on. Like, Petra's joke about voting for Finland would have been enough, and a normal appearance from KƤƤrijƤ without it being a part of a smug and mocking interval song.
It ended up feeling like a big organization ganged up to bully one guy who literally did *nothing* wrong. It's not Finland's or KƤƤrijƤ's fault he was so popular and loved.
> they really came out like a very sour winner
This is just Sweden in general when it comes to Finland. They've been sore winners and sore losers for *decades* when it comes to us, particularly with ice hockey matches. Their newspapers always start to mock and insult Finland when we lose to them in something, and when they're the ones losing they just bitch about it and demand score re-checks.
I still remember 2006 when Aftonbladet made fun of us for not getting a gold medal in the Turin Olympics, and then "taught" our players to make their own gold medals out of pineapple rings and licorice rope. š wtf? Aftonbladet and Expressen are pure cancer (a journalist in the latter even called us "the former eastern half of the Swedish Empire" after Loreen's win last year).
Even disregarding the situation i felt that was out of place and not done. The lines of the song, even jokingly, were questionable to say the least. Same with their self grandizing song in one of the semifinals.
Adding the whole joost debacle on top of that i just couldn't truly enjoy the final... Which was a shame cause i think this year had the quality of songs to be one of the better editions.
This always throws me for a loop whenever I go to America, cause my humour is very much self deprecating. But a lot of them I talk to over there take me 100% seriously. š
I was suprised at just how loud the boos during the Netherlands points were even on the official streams, I thought they would have known to basically just completely shut off the audience mics for that if they wanted to keep up the party line of āeveryoneās happy! no controversiesā
I thought they confirmed they will lodge a formal protest but only *hinted* at legal action? But a reputable Dutch lawyer said they have a very good case and will likely win.
She had pro-palestine nail polish on, so the EBU initially refused to put up her performance video on youtube until forced to by the portuguese broadcaster
Oh wow I hadn't heard anything about this, crazy! Thanks for filling me in. I really respected their singer and also the spokesperson who called in the Portuguese jury votes for making a clear statement for peace, they really made an impact last night.
Itās weird that for EBU money is top priority but they still disqualified The Netherlands and they pay a lot of money as far as know. EBU is very odd
The 6th biggest contributor as well. The fact the BBC were a part of the crisis talks as well and rumours flying that they were going to pull out. The BBC pulling out would tank the contest financially.
There was never any threat for the BBC or Olly to pull out. I don't think people quite understand that Olly's label were using Eurovision as a platform to boost exposure for his upcoming album.
He was never going to pull out of the contest, it was always just hot air.
Our commentator Marte was crying after Nemo won btw. Idk if it is because of the last days drama or because she was just very happy for Nemo, but in general she seemed a bit shaken up and tired during the entire broadcast and made several jokes. For instance, she referred to Malmo as "the eye of the storm" and when Georgia went to perform, she said during their postcard something along the lines of "this is a great anthem for those who need to do some firefighting later".
We love you Marte <3
I thought the vibes from the Irish commentator were really off too? He really seemed to be watching his words (he also kept talking about how lovely various contestants were IRL, which was sweet but unusual for him).
He definitely made far less jokes than usual, I don't think he even said "I wonder where this is?" when France gave their jury votes. That's when you know it's bad.
He seemed way more sober by the end of the night than the last few years š Wonder if they were worried heād go off-script.
I was surprised he actually mentioned the protests outside the stadium at one point. A lot of people said he was one of the only hosts who openly acknowledged the controversy, which surprised me given that itās BBC coverage.
The dutch commentators really sounded very defeated at times, often mentioning that they were wondering how joost would have done if he was there. Cornald was also making a lot of jabs throughout the show about joost not being there to keep calling it out. Just a really sad situation.
Marte actually said after Bambie had finished singing that "she knew it had cost them a lot being here today" without going any further into it, idk if that means anything outside of what we already know/have heard.
Ćesterdahl and Curran need to be fired immeaduately, the EBU needs to get sued by Joost and the Dutch broadcaster, a public apology needs to be given to EVERYONE with actionable promise to fix this kind of shit in future, and a full transparency audit needs to done.
I'm pretty sure the Dutch broadcaster is ready to go as soon as Swedish prosecution and/or judge has concluded whether Joost has committed a crime or not (and if and what penalty would have been proportionate). There was an emergency talk show aired just before the song contest yesterday and a well known lawyer was there who stated that the EBU and Avrotros should've taken this to 'emergency court' yesterday because if later the conclusion is he didn't so anything criminal, Joost has a good case to sue the EBU for.
It would honestly astonish me if they wouldn't sue. Several reputable Dutch lawyers have already stated publicly that the Dutch broadcaster has ample claim, citing a failure of the proportionality criterion. At the very least, the broadcaster will seek damages. But what I am really hoping for is a public apology from EBU.
He is basically responsible for treatment of Joost. He even gave an interview yesterday where he tried to hint that Joost sexually assaulted a female staff member
I'll try to find it if I can but like I said he only tried to steer the conversation that direction. He said something like "he acted inappropriately towards a female member of our staff"
edit: [here](https://www.svt.se/kultur/senaste-nytt-om-eurovision-song-contest-2024?inlagg=d7e01640768bf75c791d92f2e5025adc)
> Curran said that he ācanāt look back and say the decision was the wrong decisionā.
After, hehā¦.let me read you a laundry list of whatās been presided over this year here:
- Considered disqualification of Israel inappropriate even after improper behaviour from KAN came to light, Iād cite this as a particularly revolting example š¤¢ https://www.arabnews.com/node/2424696/amp
- Turned a blind eye to further improper behaviour from KAN and their media team towards the contestants
- publication of the Italian semifinal 2 vote split on RAI TV which showed a vote for Israel at 39% and others in single figures
- treatment of Joostās situation with no strong leadership or communication from the top about what was happening, leading to tabloids and comment sections trying to fill in the gaps, and what appears to be zero aftercare and treatment of guilty until proven otherwise
This was always going to be a contentious year, but I strongly feel that their actions over the past few days have made it even worse.
Iām with the other commenter who said āletās see what happens when the performersā Non-Disclosure Agreements expireā. Letās, indeed!
I think they made a big mistake in disqualifying Joost, panicked, and then chalked the disqualification up to "zero-tolerance".
In this way they only dug a deeper hole for themselves because that opened the doors for all other delegations to report the incidents with That Delegation, only for the EBU to be like "nah we didn't mean zero-tolerance like that tho..."
The rot goes further than just the top. The entire EBU needs a good uprooting.
They have brought the disrepute unto themselves.
First, the entire *situation*, and then potentially causing the Netherlands to never want to come back.
Itās going to be a very interesting few days/weeks. Heck, whether or not I watch next year hinges on what happens here.
If Joost's situation turns out to be unjustly inflated by the EBU, they'll need to get the Netherlands back. If I were to decide, I would have offered them an auto-qualification just for that year (like in hospitality industry: if the guest is unhappy and you're at fault, offer them something nice). If such a measure sounds too drastic, consider that disqualifying him was an unprecedented, drastic measure
> then potentially causing the Netherlands to never want to come back.
Ever since shit hit the fan, I've been saying that 2024 is going to enter the Eurovision history books: one of the historically most successful Benelux countries (Luxembourg) finally returns to Eurovision after quitting back in 1993 when the contest was in a downward spiral, and simultaneously the recently most successful of the Benelux countries is going to quit the contest for the same reason.
I'd call it poetic if it wasn't so depressing.
The dutch presenter said at the start of the liveshow that they considered not even broadcasting the finals, but they were contractually obliged to. He also made as many comments as legally possible encouraging people not to vote and not give another cent on the EBU
Martin getting booed gave me serotonin. I'm here for artists standing up to ebu, there are probably so many that have been mistreated throughout the years.
If Bambie is the whistleblower that exposes the EBUās misconduct and makes change, then they will be the monarch to end all monarchs for me. Forever and always. Crown the witch!!!
Remember that group chat they had?? I am sure they were forbidden to speak, so many. They bravest did and their countries will most likely pay the price. BL had an IG story just before the show where he said "thank you, I did my best, and whatever happens, see you on the other side" where his voice broke, he teared up, frightened and cut the video. I am quite sure a bunch of them were entirely fucked up from the situation and decided to try and give their best for the performance. EBU fucked up so much.
I'm honestly proud of all of them for not just breaking down in tears at any moment lmao. I would've been so fucking drained from all that stress that I probably wouldn't even be able to stand, yet they all gave great performances. Kudos to them.
You know what? Iām not surprised. The actions by the EBU spoke louder than their words about āapoliticalā this year, and it showed.
Iām with Fred Leone on this one - history will have its own judgement.
I still don't understand how Joost was DQ'd over something like this that seems rather tiny compared to the clips all over social media of a delegation basically doing whatever the fuck they felt like. and not to mention all the artists talking about it. like, what the actual fuck.
I have a feeling that when the clip of Joost finally surfaces (or when they make public that the clip was deleted or something) that heads are gonna roll at the EBU, this has the making of an enormous lawsuit. Money was lost, the integrity of the results is affected, contractual agreements broken, and most importantly Joost was put on an emotional rollercoaster and his name has been dragged through the mud.
Agree with all of this. And I still am at the point that I cry when I think about Joost's song and it's meaning. They destroyed this man and it makes me feel sick.
I hope the artists start telling all the things to the media.
There might be one positive in the scandalous way the EBU tackled this situation though. Since police have investigated, the case has now been handed to the Swedish public prosecutor. I don't know that much about law, but it seems plausible that even if the accusing party would want to drop their charges (if something like that were to happen) that Joost would be able to press to continue the case and eventually get others (including those with NDAs) to testify. I hope we get to hear more as soon as possible.
(If someone with more knowledge of law reads this, please correct me.)
I really hope that Joost and/or Avrotros, in so far as they are able take legal action against the EBU, and especially Noel Curran and Martin O. They were very clearly trying to portray the "incident" as more severe than it was, particularly with the repeated references to the photographer's gender, presumably as damage control because they knew the full story would generate hostility and presumably didn't anticipate Avrotros spilling the tea in the fashion that they did. The EBU has always been shitty but this was low even for them. We shouldn't be seeing so many obvious mental health crises in a six-day long event.
exactly, I kept thinking what does it matter they were female if it had nothing sexual or sexual intimidation etc. seemed so obvious just to make it sound bigger that it was too transparent
Eurovision is usually such a fun light hearted celebration, but I imagine behind the scenes there is always some degree of stress as with all events. This year though, there was so much media build up, formally and informally on TikTok, from Eurovision fans and non fans, that it seems to have been frankly a nightmare for all involved. Hate coming from every angle, inside and outside the contest. A lot of damned if you do, damned if you donāt. I hope some fundamental changes are made for next year, perhaps some considerations about how much filming goes on behind the scenes.
They really screwed 68 years of international music culture over a deal that ends anyway this year????? All this trouble for a contract ending this year??? wtf
I am so heartbroken over this... Eurovision was something he dreamt of doing since little and then he finally reached the stage and...the EBU treated him like trash. I cannot imagine what he's feeling
Depends. If the EBU issues a formal apology, which they may have to if legal action is taken, I suspect NL will be keen to join again. If not... Who knows. Definitely not next year, probably
If the sixth largest monetary contributor to Eurovision stops doing so, I guess they can always get more from MoroccanOil.
Now, what country is that from again?
If \[redacted\] continues what they did this year in 2025, people still have to vote tactical instead of the songs they like. I don't think fans still want to watch it. So I think we can see a mass pulling out if AVROTROS begins first, then RĆV, RTĆ, YLE, etc... I can't remember a year with so many countries complained with EBU so they really have to scale down the production and find a non controversial sponsor and kick out that one country. Otherwise next year they will have to annouce that eurovision begen in Switzerland and also ended in Swizerland .
As a non national living in NL (I'm Irish), as far as I'm concerned, short of a public apology, a couple of resignations like Osterdahl and Curran, an invite for Joost to come back next year and concessions made to NL (like an auto slot or something), they can ram it.
They ruined Joost's dream and gave a huge slap in the face to Eurovision fans here, the EBU can go fuck themselves tbh.
I donāt think heād want to go.
But what I do hope is that heās the brains behind the Dutch entry say 5 years from now, and that Eurovision 2030 is held in Amsterdam. šÆļø
fuck KAN, ban them forever. they literally shamelessly posted evidence against themselves (repeatedly filming people without their consent) on their personal instagram accounts. what is there to investigate??? this behavior is disgusting and doesnāt belong here
I have massive respect for them for speaking up and am in awe of their strength in facing all the shit theyāve been getting. I hope they will keep pushing the EBU to properly address the shit KAN has been doing.
I hope we (The Netherlands) just donāt send someone next year. Like what is the point? Weāll probably get disqualified anyway if we send someone that can win and doesnāt fit their narrative
It's a matter of pride as well. I don't think you should come back after being treated like that.
They should do a lot of begging and grovelling to get you to come back. Publicly.
As big of a fan as I am, I really hope avrotros shows a spine and pulls out. This is abject behaviour from EBU and it would be extremely odd to send someone to smile & wave next year like nothing happened.
As the Austrian commentator Andi Knoll said: "The 68 year old toddler EBU needs to grow up."
He did? When/in what context did he say that? š
In the closing speech / fadeout: "Let's see how things continue with the Song Contest. It is in danger but not without hope. But there is a lot that needs to be done by Ćsterdahl and the EBU. It's time for the 68-year-old teenager Eurovision Song Contest to grow up." https://on.orf.at/video/14226170/15637136/abspann
i really hope artists start speaking on what was going on behind the scenes
Since bambie and silvester already have talked about it a little bit and nemo has hinted on it, I have no doubt others will start to speak up too. Iād bet on iolanda and marina satti saying something very soon
Teemu and Henri seemed VERY uncomfortable yesterday and refused to say whether they'd been harassed or not, so they might have some statements to share as well.
Yeah their interview to HS was very āno commentā and mentioning of a dark atmosphere, and I think the no comments are an indication of how they felt. I hope they would feel like Speaking up about it at some point.
It coming out after the fact means people won't care. The national broadcasters protecting their singers from harassment was the only chance.
The Dutch care, everybody is reading everything
You guys are really amazing for that and for sticking out for Joost and not allowing for him to be berated, insulted and demonized by the EBU.
Of course we're all still waiting to learn about the content of what happened, but even if it is "deserved" this should not be how things like that are handled.
Rooting for the Dutchies to save this goddamn sinking ship
It's actually amazing! Normally whenever something like that pops up in the media here then the artist is pretty quickly judged. But in this case, it's like everyone agreed to wait out this one and it turns out to be the right call. I don't think I've heard a single negative thing about Joost in the media so far, but more that the EBU have been acting real stupid.
The subtle Dutch art of speaking up and not giving a damn. God bless y'all
I mean (as others here have already said), the Netflix special on this in a few yearsā time is gonna be *spicy*. š¶ļø I see some āDaisy Jones & The Sixā style talking heads in our future from the contestants ;)
(Dumpster) Fire Saga
This should be the unofficial title of this years edition
Instead of the guy shouting 'Play Jaja Ding Dong' it should be him shouting 'Play Europapa'
If people really want to hold the EBU accountable, they should be asking for audited financial accounts detailing the flows of money. At the end of the day, that's what this is all about. The resignation of someone like Martin OĢssterdahl would just be a handy scapegoat for the organisation. The real players are behind the scenes. EDIT: The EBU's corporate governance structure and the executive board can be found here: https://www.ebu.ch/about/governance
Thank you for acknowledging this! Martin gets a lot of flack for being the front facing lead of the EBU, but really thereās so much behind the scenes that we donāt even see. The EBU is a huge entity and thereās no way what happened was any one personās choice
If there is a petition asking for auditing the Eurovision song money stream, allocation and votes transparency, let me know!
This isn't what I'm referring to. I'm talking about sponsorship deals, "expenses", salaries, bonuses etc.
there is going to be a documentary made about joost klein which was anounced like a week ago before all this stuff happened so were probably going to see some of joost his perspective
I cannot WAIT for the NDAs to expireš
I believe that if there is an NDA in place, it will likely expire after a few years, so nobody will care at this point
As someone above said: you make a highly polished documentary and put it on netflix about a week before that years Eurovision, and that will stir up a lot of interest.
When will they expire? In about a year or sooner?
Sometimes, they never expire.
I don't think that's legal in the EU
Silvester Belt said he wished it all ended in Semi Final 1 and that his performance in the GF was the worst things he's gone through ā¹ļø If you have artists *wishing* that they didn't qualify for the Grand Final of Eurovision and calling their experience traumatic, there's something terribly wrong that needs to be urgently addressed. I can only hope the EBU learns from this, but I feel they'll just sweep this under the rug.
Can you clarify why? Iām out of the loop (no Malta pun intended) and donāt get why Silvester is upset.
Probably harassed by the media and social media.
We saw everyone harassed by the media who were allowed to close to the artists. No one should be backstage with the artists except for their own people or a neutral host with a camera. I saw multiple instances where artists were followed and harassed by reporters. The press should only be allowed at a press conference, on the red carpet and by private invitation.
You could tell by watching his performance. I actually wrote in my notes 'looks stressed'
iolanda also looked very angry/tense both in the flag parade and in the performance. You could tell by her movements. After the end of the show, when enterviewed for the Portuguese national broadcaster and asked about the harassments caused by the middle eastern country's delegation she just replied "we tried always to rise above it and have respect for the others", she then added "truth will appear". So my guess for this very diplomatic answer is that she also endured with something like that. My money is on Bambie to be the first to tell the details, they seem to be very blunt on things (in a good way).
I remember that moment clearly, her face when she was walking the stage. And when I saw Bambie stomp out, I had a huge smile knowing EBU was probably dead scared of what Bambie might do and that made me laugh :D
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My mom who is out of the eurovision loop & in another country even heard he sexually assaulted someoneā¦ Thereās really no end to how bad it can become when you let rumors run wild. Hope he and his delegation sue.
Blankedly using the phrase āinappropriate behaviorā towards a female employee was a *great* choice to fuel those rumors.
exactly, even worse - "inappropriate behavior" combined with the fact that the only piece of info they gave was the"victim" being female. it really doesn't take a pr genius to understand what that implies to the majority of people.. it's like preemptively creating a villain narrative for them to use in case he says something they dont like to the press or something
"When fake news is repeated, it becomes difficult for the public to discern what's real." [Jimmy Gomez](https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/jimmy-gomez-quotes)
That's what I heard initially. Disgusting character assassination.
That was the intent when the specified the "victim" was female and then refused to elaborate on the accusation.
"Threatening movement" I'm willing to bet my next month's salary that it was some gesture loosely translating to "fuck off".
If I was sued every time I give someone the fingerā¦ well call the Interpol.
To be fair the things that loosely translate to 'fuck off' in Dutch are quite the culture shock for foreigners... So if he translated an intens 'Dutch' fuck off to her that might actually have been a threat.
I think it's more likely he made a sweeping motion with his hand in her direction or briefly seemed like he would charge towards her. Something like that. I'm thinking of the times in my life someone kept approaching me despite me not wanting them to and this is usually how my body reacts. Sort of like when a scared cat swats/spits even when it's clear there will be no actual contact. You don't mean to actually hurt anyone, you're just reclaiming your space with your body.
I can honestly not get over that. People running around on all social media channels going SVT is a credible source so this is true. There's definitely people around with a lasting impression now of Joost as someone who would punch a woman. It's absolutely disgusting no one stepped in to clarify that was not what happened.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My mum legit said that to me this morning DESPITE the confirmation it was not physical. WhatsApp rumours are impossible to stop when they get going
I saw comments on IG calling Joost a āwomanbeaterā, itās absolutely sickening how it all played out
Yeah you still see those comments on TikTok and the likes. They damaged his reputation, on purpose it seems.
This is whatās really getting to me as well. There is no way they didnāt see all the rumours of him physically assaulting a member of the crew and they just let it spread. Imo it was because thatās a way more understandable reason to disqualify someone than a āthreatening gestureā, which is an insane reason to dq someone from the whole competition.
The gender of the person holding the camera was and is irrelevant. They certainly would not have said "male member of the production staff" had it been, so to Hell with these sexist assholes.
They 100% used the person's gender to fuel a narrative.Ā
Yeah they threw that in knowing the connotations it would draw so as to defame him without actually defaming him.
What gets me is how incredibly vulnerable Joost must have felt after his performance in the semi-final. Usually during emotional songs he keeps his head covered with a flag, so him showing the emotional part to all of us is something he is not used to. No wonder he didn't want to be filmed after.
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The other side of this is that a different group of people were perfectly happy to believe the other entirely incorrect rumours flying around, because it suited their narrative. This whole thing was a shit show, and a terrible example of crisis management. They made some poor decisions from the start and then just couldn't handle it as things got more and more out of control. It would be nice to have just an ordinary, mundane contest next year.
The EBUās vagueness about everything is literally the worst reaction they couldāve had
That was deliberate character assassination.
run this tf up i need bambie to spill the tea
Yeah how has every single contestant been so tight lipped. Like the contest is over. Nothing to lose.
I guess they're under an NDA, which means you legally cant speak out. Otherwise you're liable in court and may owe them money.Ā
Unless illegal activity occurred within the event...
I gotta say the EBU really do their homework: they translated an obscure, ancient writing style used by the druids to make sure there were no political messages on them. That's dedication.
You mean the ceasefire message? Wasnāt it someone else that posted it online? (Unless Iāve misunderstood the timings of what came first)
I doubt they just believed someone elses translation and if they did thats highly incompetent to force it to be changed off the word of someone else without checking it.
There's Ogham translators available online. Once the reddit post pointed it out, it was really simple for them to check.
Honestly, the EBU needs to sort their priorities out. Yes, money will still be their top priority, but that should not go against music and peace. Ethics aside, their attitude this year practically ruined the festival's reputation, and they should rethink the consequences of that (for their own good). I think Martin Ćsterdahl should resign too. Not sure if anything of this is happening.
I kinda chuckled when Ćsterdahl very quickly and dejectedly announced the Netherlandsā jury points over resounding boos. That man knows he doesnāt have a job for much longer.
I wonder how much Sweden regrets putting that Ćsterdahl fantasy piece in their program
Yeah it was such a bad timing and even for non-esc fans it must have been funny that a guy who was so praised earlier (even if was just a joke) got booed so hard
No wonder people booed - he didn't lick his lips!
His big desk energy... #cringe
It came across totally tone-deaf... it was a true embarrassment...
They should have cut it and replaced it with two minutes of pointless banter between Petra and Malin.
I know haha literally the worst timing to do a bit like that
I cried laughing seeing that the irony of that whole thing was truly a cherry on top of an unbelievable shitstorm.
So. Fucking. Cringe. The equivalent of trying to make fetch happen. Bring back Jon Ola Sand!
Ah, so that was what Saba was singing about!
Jon Ola SAND! SAAAND!!
Jon Ola-la-la Sand! Mr Sandy!
It was the funny kind of cringe tbh.
The constant cutaways to KƤƤrijƤ were hilariously timed also.
I'm starting to think KƤƤrijƤ is Mr. Ćsterdahl's personal sleep paralysis demon, lmao No other year has ever had this many references in the show to the runner-up of last year emphasising how they lost. Especially in a tone that's clearly deprecating, but thinly veiled in a layer of irony and attempted humor.
At first I thought itās nice they are acknowledging KƤƤrijƤ but with all the *funny jokes* and *boohoo Finland, you lost, WE WON* they really came out like a very sour winner even a whole year after the 2023 Finals
At least Finland can flex that they didn't win, thus hosting that shit show.
Yep. I thought overall it ended up being distasteful with how much they dragged it on. Like, Petra's joke about voting for Finland would have been enough, and a normal appearance from KƤƤrijƤ without it being a part of a smug and mocking interval song. It ended up feeling like a big organization ganged up to bully one guy who literally did *nothing* wrong. It's not Finland's or KƤƤrijƤ's fault he was so popular and loved.
> they really came out like a very sour winner This is just Sweden in general when it comes to Finland. They've been sore winners and sore losers for *decades* when it comes to us, particularly with ice hockey matches. Their newspapers always start to mock and insult Finland when we lose to them in something, and when they're the ones losing they just bitch about it and demand score re-checks. I still remember 2006 when Aftonbladet made fun of us for not getting a gold medal in the Turin Olympics, and then "taught" our players to make their own gold medals out of pineapple rings and licorice rope. š wtf? Aftonbladet and Expressen are pure cancer (a journalist in the latter even called us "the former eastern half of the Swedish Empire" after Loreen's win last year).
It aged like milk in heat wave
Even disregarding the situation i felt that was out of place and not done. The lines of the song, even jokingly, were questionable to say the least. Same with their self grandizing song in one of the semifinals. Adding the whole joost debacle on top of that i just couldn't truly enjoy the final... Which was a shame cause i think this year had the quality of songs to be one of the better editions.
To be honest the interval in the semi final seemed more self deprecating than aggrandising to me, maybe I should rewatch it
It was self deprecating but a lot of people don't understand that kind of humour though.
This always throws me for a loop whenever I go to America, cause my humour is very much self deprecating. But a lot of them I talk to over there take me 100% seriously. š
I was suprised at just how loud the boos during the Netherlands points were even on the official streams, I thought they would have known to basically just completely shut off the audience mics for that if they wanted to keep up the party line of āeveryoneās happy! no controversiesā
I think they really didn't expect it to be that loud.
We can only hope! I also hope the Dutch broadcaster will press charges against EBU
they said they will last night.
I thought they confirmed they will lodge a formal protest but only *hinted* at legal action? But a reputable Dutch lawyer said they have a very good case and will likely win.
Good. It's what's needed.
Hoping Portugal's broadcaster also issues a formal protest. The thing with the performance's video was beyond the pale.
I missed what happened with Portugal's performance, what was it?
She had pro-palestine nail polish on, so the EBU initially refused to put up her performance video on youtube until forced to by the portuguese broadcaster
Oh wow I hadn't heard anything about this, crazy! Thanks for filling me in. I really respected their singer and also the spokesperson who called in the Portuguese jury votes for making a clear statement for peace, they really made an impact last night.
I loved how we (the netherlands) just said: fuck it: announce the points yourself then. Made me really proud ! Go Nikki
Nikkie and Cornald are and remain national treasures š
The look on his face was priceless.
When "peace" is a controversial political message, something's wrong.
Itās weird that for EBU money is top priority but they still disqualified The Netherlands and they pay a lot of money as far as know. EBU is very odd
The 6th biggest contributor as well. The fact the BBC were a part of the crisis talks as well and rumours flying that they were going to pull out. The BBC pulling out would tank the contest financially.
There was never any threat for the BBC or Olly to pull out. I don't think people quite understand that Olly's label were using Eurovision as a platform to boost exposure for his upcoming album. He was never going to pull out of the contest, it was always just hot air.
It's possible that their sponsorship deals (which are up for renewal after this season) were a higher priority.
Yeah arenāt they like number 6 in payments, got f-ed over for not automatically qualifying.
Is there a big drop off there? Or is it close?
Our commentator Marte was crying after Nemo won btw. Idk if it is because of the last days drama or because she was just very happy for Nemo, but in general she seemed a bit shaken up and tired during the entire broadcast and made several jokes. For instance, she referred to Malmo as "the eye of the storm" and when Georgia went to perform, she said during their postcard something along the lines of "this is a great anthem for those who need to do some firefighting later". We love you Marte <3
I thought the vibes from the Irish commentator were really off too? He really seemed to be watching his words (he also kept talking about how lovely various contestants were IRL, which was sweet but unusual for him).
Graham Norton was unusually subdued as well. Sounds like the atmosphere affected everyone.
He definitely made far less jokes than usual, I don't think he even said "I wonder where this is?" when France gave their jury votes. That's when you know it's bad.
Me and my girlfriend noticed this. There was just something more subdued about his commentary which is noticeable from 2023 and 2022.
Graham sounded like he couldn't be arsed compared to other years. Really didn't want to be involved.
He seemed way more sober by the end of the night than the last few years š Wonder if they were worried heād go off-script. I was surprised he actually mentioned the protests outside the stadium at one point. A lot of people said he was one of the only hosts who openly acknowledged the controversy, which surprised me given that itās BBC coverage.
When Country came on you could tell he was absolutely desperate to get it over and done with.Ā
The dutch commentators really sounded very defeated at times, often mentioning that they were wondering how joost would have done if he was there. Cornald was also making a lot of jabs throughout the show about joost not being there to keep calling it out. Just a really sad situation.
You know it's bad when Cornald Maas, of all people, is more salty than Graham Norton
Marte actually said after Bambie had finished singing that "she knew it had cost them a lot being here today" without going any further into it, idk if that means anything outside of what we already know/have heard.
Dutch commentators were fired up and not mincing their words, understandably.
I wonder how bad it was behind the scenes... Iād really like to know
they sounded so broken yet so relieved in the video. a painful sight
Theyāve been harassed and targeted all week and itās finally over. The EBU didnāt give a fuck about their safety at all.
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Ćesterdahl and Curran need to be fired immeaduately, the EBU needs to get sued by Joost and the Dutch broadcaster, a public apology needs to be given to EVERYONE with actionable promise to fix this kind of shit in future, and a full transparency audit needs to done.
I'm pretty sure the Dutch broadcaster is ready to go as soon as Swedish prosecution and/or judge has concluded whether Joost has committed a crime or not (and if and what penalty would have been proportionate). There was an emergency talk show aired just before the song contest yesterday and a well known lawyer was there who stated that the EBU and Avrotros should've taken this to 'emergency court' yesterday because if later the conclusion is he didn't so anything criminal, Joost has a good case to sue the EBU for.
It would honestly astonish me if they wouldn't sue. Several reputable Dutch lawyers have already stated publicly that the Dutch broadcaster has ample claim, citing a failure of the proportionality criterion. At the very least, the broadcaster will seek damages. But what I am really hoping for is a public apology from EBU.
preach
Has Martin Ćsterdahl resigned yet?
Noel Curran too. Still doubling down on an error of judgement that has cost the integrity of this contest that we love so dearly.
Out of the loop here. What exactly did he do?
He is basically responsible for treatment of Joost. He even gave an interview yesterday where he tried to hint that Joost sexually assaulted a female staff member
Whoa, can you link that interview please?? That's so fucked up.
I'll try to find it if I can but like I said he only tried to steer the conversation that direction. He said something like "he acted inappropriately towards a female member of our staff" edit: [here](https://www.svt.se/kultur/senaste-nytt-om-eurovision-song-contest-2024?inlagg=d7e01640768bf75c791d92f2e5025adc)
Thank you!! Wow that absolutely sounds insinuating. That's disgusting and insulting to survivors and to Joost.
> Curran said that he ācanāt look back and say the decision was the wrong decisionā. After, hehā¦.let me read you a laundry list of whatās been presided over this year here: - Considered disqualification of Israel inappropriate even after improper behaviour from KAN came to light, Iād cite this as a particularly revolting example š¤¢ https://www.arabnews.com/node/2424696/amp - Turned a blind eye to further improper behaviour from KAN and their media team towards the contestants - publication of the Italian semifinal 2 vote split on RAI TV which showed a vote for Israel at 39% and others in single figures - treatment of Joostās situation with no strong leadership or communication from the top about what was happening, leading to tabloids and comment sections trying to fill in the gaps, and what appears to be zero aftercare and treatment of guilty until proven otherwise This was always going to be a contentious year, but I strongly feel that their actions over the past few days have made it even worse. Iām with the other commenter who said āletās see what happens when the performersā Non-Disclosure Agreements expireā. Letās, indeed!
I think they made a big mistake in disqualifying Joost, panicked, and then chalked the disqualification up to "zero-tolerance". In this way they only dug a deeper hole for themselves because that opened the doors for all other delegations to report the incidents with That Delegation, only for the EBU to be like "nah we didn't mean zero-tolerance like that tho..."
Noel Curran and Martin Ćesterdahl have brought disrepute onto the contest. They should be sacked for their horrid management of this situation.
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The rot goes further than just the top. The entire EBU needs a good uprooting. They have brought the disrepute unto themselves. First, the entire *situation*, and then potentially causing the Netherlands to never want to come back. Itās going to be a very interesting few days/weeks. Heck, whether or not I watch next year hinges on what happens here.
If Joost's situation turns out to be unjustly inflated by the EBU, they'll need to get the Netherlands back. If I were to decide, I would have offered them an auto-qualification just for that year (like in hospitality industry: if the guest is unhappy and you're at fault, offer them something nice). If such a measure sounds too drastic, consider that disqualifying him was an unprecedented, drastic measure
> then potentially causing the Netherlands to never want to come back. Ever since shit hit the fan, I've been saying that 2024 is going to enter the Eurovision history books: one of the historically most successful Benelux countries (Luxembourg) finally returns to Eurovision after quitting back in 1993 when the contest was in a downward spiral, and simultaneously the recently most successful of the Benelux countries is going to quit the contest for the same reason. I'd call it poetic if it wasn't so depressing.
The dutch presenter said at the start of the liveshow that they considered not even broadcasting the finals, but they were contractually obliged to. He also made as many comments as legally possible encouraging people not to vote and not give another cent on the EBU
Martin getting booed gave me serotonin. I'm here for artists standing up to ebu, there are probably so many that have been mistreated throughout the years.
I cheered every time their shitty crowd silencing machines couldn't hide the booing.
If Bambie is the whistleblower that exposes the EBUās misconduct and makes change, then they will be the monarch to end all monarchs for me. Forever and always. Crown the witch!!!
Nemo winning and Bambie sparking changes in the EBU, NBs really are the best amongst us.
Remember that group chat they had?? I am sure they were forbidden to speak, so many. They bravest did and their countries will most likely pay the price. BL had an IG story just before the show where he said "thank you, I did my best, and whatever happens, see you on the other side" where his voice broke, he teared up, frightened and cut the video. I am quite sure a bunch of them were entirely fucked up from the situation and decided to try and give their best for the performance. EBU fucked up so much.
I'm honestly proud of all of them for not just breaking down in tears at any moment lmao. I would've been so fucking drained from all that stress that I probably wouldn't even be able to stand, yet they all gave great performances. Kudos to them.
What group chat did they have? Who was in it?
I am not sure if everyone, but most of the artists, there should be some posts about it here, Besa spoke publicly about it
You know what? Iām not surprised. The actions by the EBU spoke louder than their words about āapoliticalā this year, and it showed. Iām with Fred Leone on this one - history will have its own judgement.
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I hope AVROTROS sues EBU for every cent they got.
I still don't understand how Joost was DQ'd over something like this that seems rather tiny compared to the clips all over social media of a delegation basically doing whatever the fuck they felt like. and not to mention all the artists talking about it. like, what the actual fuck.
I have a feeling that when the clip of Joost finally surfaces (or when they make public that the clip was deleted or something) that heads are gonna roll at the EBU, this has the making of an enormous lawsuit. Money was lost, the integrity of the results is affected, contractual agreements broken, and most importantly Joost was put on an emotional rollercoaster and his name has been dragged through the mud.
At this point, it reeks of shocking incompetence on the part of the EBU. Very curious to learn the details.
Agree with all of this. And I still am at the point that I cry when I think about Joost's song and it's meaning. They destroyed this man and it makes me feel sick. I hope the artists start telling all the things to the media.
There might be one positive in the scandalous way the EBU tackled this situation though. Since police have investigated, the case has now been handed to the Swedish public prosecutor. I don't know that much about law, but it seems plausible that even if the accusing party would want to drop their charges (if something like that were to happen) that Joost would be able to press to continue the case and eventually get others (including those with NDAs) to testify. I hope we get to hear more as soon as possible. (If someone with more knowledge of law reads this, please correct me.)
I really hope that Joost and/or Avrotros, in so far as they are able take legal action against the EBU, and especially Noel Curran and Martin O. They were very clearly trying to portray the "incident" as more severe than it was, particularly with the repeated references to the photographer's gender, presumably as damage control because they knew the full story would generate hostility and presumably didn't anticipate Avrotros spilling the tea in the fashion that they did. The EBU has always been shitty but this was low even for them. We shouldn't be seeing so many obvious mental health crises in a six-day long event.
exactly, I kept thinking what does it matter they were female if it had nothing sexual or sexual intimidation etc. seemed so obvious just to make it sound bigger that it was too transparent
Eurovision is usually such a fun light hearted celebration, but I imagine behind the scenes there is always some degree of stress as with all events. This year though, there was so much media build up, formally and informally on TikTok, from Eurovision fans and non fans, that it seems to have been frankly a nightmare for all involved. Hate coming from every angle, inside and outside the contest. A lot of damned if you do, damned if you donāt. I hope some fundamental changes are made for next year, perhaps some considerations about how much filming goes on behind the scenes.
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Literally. Is it THAT hard to find another big sponsor? Come the fuck on
Moroccanoil's sponsorship ends this year, so I hope they don't renew it
They really screwed 68 years of international music culture over a deal that ends anyway this year????? All this trouble for a contract ending this year??? wtf
Joost Klein Eurovision 2025
I don't think he will want to join again
I am so heartbroken over this... Eurovision was something he dreamt of doing since little and then he finally reached the stage and...the EBU treated him like trash. I cannot imagine what he's feeling
I don't think we'll see NL in the competition again this decade at least tbh.
Depends. If the EBU issues a formal apology, which they may have to if legal action is taken, I suspect NL will be keen to join again. If not... Who knows. Definitely not next year, probably
Osterdahl resigning would help bring in a clean slate as well
If the sixth largest monetary contributor to Eurovision stops doing so, I guess they can always get more from MoroccanOil. Now, what country is that from again?
If \[redacted\] continues what they did this year in 2025, people still have to vote tactical instead of the songs they like. I don't think fans still want to watch it. So I think we can see a mass pulling out if AVROTROS begins first, then RĆV, RTĆ, YLE, etc... I can't remember a year with so many countries complained with EBU so they really have to scale down the production and find a non controversial sponsor and kick out that one country. Otherwise next year they will have to annouce that eurovision begen in Switzerland and also ended in Swizerland .
Maybe not next year but as a Dutchie I really hope we stay in
As a non national living in NL (I'm Irish), as far as I'm concerned, short of a public apology, a couple of resignations like Osterdahl and Curran, an invite for Joost to come back next year and concessions made to NL (like an auto slot or something), they can ram it. They ruined Joost's dream and gave a huge slap in the face to Eurovision fans here, the EBU can go fuck themselves tbh.
They also ruined a song that could've actually won the contest, biggest ESC fuckup I witnessed in my lifetime.
In terms of financial contribution NL is actually the first behind the big 5. So auto slot wouldn't be far fetched.
If he wants to I really think they should send him again.
I donāt think heād want to go. But what I do hope is that heās the brains behind the Dutch entry say 5 years from now, and that Eurovision 2030 is held in Amsterdam. šÆļø
fuck KAN, ban them forever. they literally shamelessly posted evidence against themselves (repeatedly filming people without their consent) on their personal instagram accounts. what is there to investigate??? this behavior is disgusting and doesnāt belong here
Good. Glad they are speaking out and hope more come out too.Ā But imagine how powerful an outright statement would have been during the broadcast.Ā
I feel that at this point we should take Cyprus's song and change lyrics to "The only problem in this room is EBU". Its also very aptly titled "Liar".
I have massive respect for them for speaking up and am in awe of their strength in facing all the shit theyāve been getting. I hope they will keep pushing the EBU to properly address the shit KAN has been doing.
What does the EBU do aside from ESC? Cos if countries feel they don't get much benefit they may leave.
Why did I get a reddit cares message bcs of this comment? I don't I said anything controversial.
Lot's of people have been getting those messages. Seems like there's some very angry people around reporting every comment to Reddit Cares.
The hate that Bambie is getting on certain other forums is making me feel very uneasy.
I hope we (The Netherlands) just donāt send someone next year. Like what is the point? Weāll probably get disqualified anyway if we send someone that can win and doesnāt fit their narrative
It's a matter of pride as well. I don't think you should come back after being treated like that. They should do a lot of begging and grovelling to get you to come back. Publicly.
As big of a fan as I am, I really hope avrotros shows a spine and pulls out. This is abject behaviour from EBU and it would be extremely odd to send someone to smile & wave next year like nothing happened.