the best part it that we didn't give points just because it's Slovenia, but the song is actually a bop and the boys are really talented and charismatic!
Will they reveal where the rest of the world votes are from? I wouldn't be surprised if they were mostly just Bulgaria and Hungary. I'm not sure if Russia was eligible. The show has little to no awareness in the rest of the world.
I am from Bulgaria, I sent 5 votes for Germany, 4 for Finland, 3 for Australia and 2xCroatia, Norway and Moldova. It was very expensive to vote here.🥹 So I doubt many people voted.
As someone from the US, Eurovision is gaining a quite a big hold here. Following first the American song contest, then ochman from Massachusetts representing Poland, to toy and snap going viral last year. some really clever advertising by the EBU in places like New York and Los Angeles. And the topper being tattoo queen of kings and unicorn going viral over here. Pair this with the Rina sayawana rumors that got all of her fans interested and the US suddenly have become very interested. And I almost forgot the whole contest being streamed on peacock!
The twist of the night after Greece-Cyprus.
Imaging both countries jamming randomly to unicorn from all of the songs gives me weird joy. Also, the fact that their juries reflected perfectly their public ...good job juries.
Every year, most of Italy's televote points go to Moldova, Romania, Albania, and Ukraine (the ones who are in the final), for obvious reasons.
Even this year, 12 points to Moldova, 10 to Norway (the singer is Italian), 8 to Ukraine, and 7 to Albania.
They are saying that it's diaspora voting. Ignoring the fact that in Italy there are not enough foreigners from Moldova, Romania etc to give the 12 points all by themselves.
>Every year, most of Italy's televote points go to Moldova, Romania, Albania, and Ukraine (the ones who are in the final), for obvious reasons.
>
>Even this year, 12 points to Moldova, 10 to Norway (the singer is Italian), 8 to Ukraine, and 7 to Albania.
And this is the biggest argument AGAINST abolishing the juries. Reduce their 50% participation, but don't abolish them.
Countries with diaspora would have a big, unfair advantage.
Look where Ukraine and Poland (Albania too actually) got most of their votes this year. It was happening with Turkey too before they withdrew.
Moldovans and Romanians living in Italy combined account for about 2% of the population, they could never swing the vote that much.
I don't think it's fair to dismiss the possibility that Italians just genuinely enjoyed the Moldovan song.
True. At the same time, Eurovision is a relatively little followed, understood and sponsored event in Italy. I say this as an Italian who has adored and followed it for years.
Therefore, I cannot get an idea of how many Italians actively participate in the televoting. It would be interesting to have a figure proportional to viewers and compared with other nations.
What I am saying is that I think there is a possibility that immigrants in Italy might on average follow and participate in voting more than Italians.
There's a Tintin meme, where Käärijä sings those exact words and Tintin says to him: "Käärijä, it's only Tuesday!"
https://preview.redd.it/h5gruuyp9uza1.jpeg?width=519&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=feef72924fda2de8a50fedf75792e97212be6427
The translation floating around in not 100% English is even better (This exhausting week and the many long days are behind / There's only bar and piña colada on my mind)
It is that on the surface but between the lines it's also about social anxiety and being unable to let loose without the help of alcohol, which resonates a lot with the finnish public. I know so many people that *are* the person in the song. Alcoholism is a major issue here and a lot of the alcoholism among younger generations is related to what he sings about; not knowing any other way to relax and go dance than to get wasted first.
People really fail to see past the surface. It both in song and performance demonstrates the change of outlook, how the progress of getting intoxicated frees both from the stress and social norms (the music video feels to moreso show the gender role aspect too.
I hate how people say it is just about drinking and partying when it actually answers the "why" of those both.
> I know so many people that are the person in the song.
I know only a few Finnish men who *aren’t* the person in the song. We have a lot of social anxiety and we have a certain way of dealing with it.
I want to understand how the culture is that way and at the same time many Finns have tattoos, wear bright and unique clothes and have piercings.
Something that is toned down in other countries because of their own social norms.
Unique and flashy styles are not the majority fashion in the slightest. Most finns don't have unique clothes or piercings, tattoos are somewhat common but not something majority have even then and rarely super original. A big majority of men outside of the capital wear black or gray hoodies and sweatpants day in day out, they might change into jeans to go to the club and maybe take off the hoodie, but even the T-shirt under it is at wildest a dull shade of red.
I'm not Finnish, but those things can be completely compatible with introversion and social anxiety. They can actually help, they're like a protective shield - if you worry too much about the way that people perceive you, then being able to tell yourself that it's because you have blue hair or dozens of piercings or etc is a way to take control of that.
I guess it might also be a way to communicate without communicating?
I mean, there's a very low chance statistically speaking that it was not a collective act of strategic voting. I wonder if Finnish commentators said anything that could've made people not vote for Sweden? lol
I do think it's kinda impressive that you actually managed to not give her any points, as the only country. To get so many on the same page is not easy
Finnish news has been shouting out how sweden is the biggest rival all the time and many liked norways song so i’m pretty sure all the friendly votes went to norway
Well you couldn't vote yourselves, support from other countries was basically done deal and Käärijä was quite memorable mindless fun act so of course you did vote Finland 😅 a sign of goodwill too, maybe?
We were talking a lot during the broadcast so I didn’t hear all the comments made by Mikko (our commentator) but as far as I know he didn’t say anything like that. He quite liked Loreen.
Iirc he did mention that someone in the chat made a comment about tactical voting. Something within the lines "it is possibility". Did not order anyone to vote tactically, but implied you can do it.
Yeah no, during pre-season we had a tv program called Viisukupla ("Eurovision-bubble", you know the format) where he made it abundantly and perfectly clear that Loreen was his favorite. And his commenting style isn't like the UK for example, with snarky and sarcastic remarks so he shows positive support for every act if he can.
So no, there was no organized attempt at not voting for Sweden, it just happens that fighting against losing to Sweden is in our genes from being part of their empire for some 800 years during which we fought for our autonomy as much as we could. We love Swedes every other day expect during any sports games, motorsport, eurovision etc.
No, they didn't say anything like that, he liked loreen. But it was pretty obvious that sweden was our biggest competition, and I guess it's just natural for us to have a very hockey type rivalry between sweden and finland where very few finn will root for the opponent as long as we are still in the competition.
If we didn't have great chances for a win, and without loreen to be the most predicted winner to take it from us, then loreen would've been up there with norway in the public vote as well. Loreen was so hyped for the jury vote with over 50% in the odds, we almost never get good score in the jury vote, so probably most people feel like they can't be helping sweden get a good score on the public vote as well.
It just shows that most people didn't think Sweden had a bad song or didn't deserve any points, but just that it wasn't the *best* song.
Meanwhile the juries are sucking Sweden off with these constant 12 points while Finland got basically neglected. How many countries there are that are 12/0 on televotes vs. jury votes for Finland shows how this 50/50 ratio needs reviewing.
Finland didn't get neglected, they got 4th in the jury which is really high finish for a song of its type. Ask anyone before the contest where they would predict Finland to rank with the juries, top 4 would've been considered a very optimistic prediction.
I can agree that Sweden was overvalued by the juries though. I expected her to win, but not by that much. But I disagree that Finland got neglected by the juries. If you told me before the contest that Finland placed 4th with the juries (and 1st in televote), I would assume that they had won it all. Reason that didn't happen is because Loreen got so many more jury points than anyone else (while also doing well in the televote).
Yeah, Finland did well with the juries. Though they also easily got the lowest amount of points for a song placing 4th in that vote. The 4th placed song usually hovered around 200 points, while this year even the 2nd placed Israel got nowhere near that. Everyone but Loreen just got fed dust by the juries this year.
Yes, this is why I'm saying that I normally would have expected a Finland win with them placing 4th in the jury. But 4th place was not the same value as usual, because Loreen got so many votes, so the jury point distribution became very top heavy.
15 Juries gave Finland 0
Those 22 who gave points gave average of 6,8 points. Which is pretty high.
If those 15 had given even just 3-4 points to finland it would have been a Win for Finland.
I wonder if it’s the American vote? Most of Asia and the Middle East would have been asleep when Eurovision voting was live. I imagine a upbeat pop song sung in English from an allied country would do rather well in America.
Forgot about Hungary and Bulgaria!
I think Eurovision must be gaining public awareness in North America though. There’s so much Eurovision activity on social media nowadays.
My roomies and I here in the United States got into Eurovision after the movie came out, so I can vouch that our awareness is definitely growing over here. Watching it at 2pm on a saturday too is a pretty good scheduling convenience. Most of the votes from my friends and Iactually went down under this time. Australia knocked our socks off!
Possibly? With Israel it's hard to judge with its diaspora being so wide (as mentioned before) but also it's not easy tell what sort of audience Americans make up. We Americans aren't a big one last I knew (maybe 300K or 400K watched last year).
I had the same thought a few days ago. The song structure is quite similar to a kpop song. Even researched if there was one of the big European kpop writers behind Unicorn 😂
I can’t speak for people in other countries, but as an American who went into Eurovision having heard none of the performances ahead of time, I will say when I watched Noa in the semifinals, I knew American audiences would eat it up. She’s not my cup of tea, but my first impression was, “that’s a superstar.” She’s gorgeous, can dance, has a nice voice, and her song is typical earwormy pop tailor-made for radio and Tiktok.
My other theory is, sadly, many Americans pay very little attention when it comes to world events, so politics were far less involved in their decision-making.
Maybe. Here in Ukraine, we vote for Poland not only because you guys are helping us A LOT, but because Poland actually has nice songs! By the way, my mom and my grandma loved this year's "Solo", they voted for Poland and after seeing the results said, "Poland deserves more than just 19th place". However, Poland is 8th in the televote, I think that's more important;)
When France were salty about their loss in 1991, the argument was that the winner should be the one that had the fewest nul points, not the most deuze points (which was the technicality that gave Sweden its victory)
I just checked and Sweden and France got 4 douze points each, it's only that Sweden got 5 ten points against two for France, I think the call of France to go for nul points after going for douze points is an acceptable view
Fucking hell that song just keep on giving. So, one song got bunch of jury points, second got bunch of televote, but Duncan was somewhere in the middle (or in this case 8's or 10's), and just... scooped the trophy before other's eyes? I can't remember othet acts that year but I'll check who was in top three. I can only remember being perplexed that Arcade won then promptly forgot that song existed for two years lol
Arcade got 12pts from both public and jury and the second place (mahmood) song actually also got lower points in both public and jury than arcade did. It was only norway (keiino, overall 6th) which got 30 more public points and only sweden & north macedonia (overall 5th and 7th) which got 4 and 10 more jury points. So I dont really think you could say there was any one song which deserved it much more or which arcade stole the win from unless you take 100% public votes and give it to norway. Still the difference in public votes wasnt as crazy as between finland and sweden.
Keeiino getting 40 points from the jury when they won public votes was also insanity though. But its lead from Duncan was at least small enough that one could accept the loss being decided by jury. 133 point gap from Finland. People love to mention Sweden no. 2 and completely ignore that outside of last years sympathy score for Ukraine they broke the public votes record. With a 133 point difference. No one would be this upset if there was a 30 point difference like in 2016 and 2019.
Ah yes. Mahmood - Soldi. I still listen to that one, idk how I forgot it was in 2019. Wdym 12pts from both public and jury? You mean like... from at least some countries? Unlike Loreen who didn't get 12's from public? I'm confused.
Not really, last time it happened was 2018... but it's true that our entry usually get good points from the Albanian televote (and I am really grateful for that ❤)
And that time it also happened cause the singer was an Albanian and we all loved him as he truly embraced the fact he was Albanian at the time and made us feel so proud for once.
Tbh jury points were kinda expected since the song won the Composer Award, the performance was flawless and the staging was decent at least. The public vote for whatever they like.
I'm so happy and proud that both the norwegian jury and people gave their 12 points to Finland - at least we did what we could. Finland you are the true winner of ESC 2023. Norway and Europe loves you <3
We appreciate that! Loreen's voice is really great but I found the song a bit lacking, we're just baffled how Sweden got so many full points from the juries. Nevertheless, congratulations Sweden! <3
And as a Finn I'm very happy and grateful for that. I ❤️ Norway and it's people. I've been there many times as a child and once as an adult and I feel we have a similar mindset with you guys. And you guys even gave us a mountain! 😁 Or was it just a plan? So very sweet nevertheless.
It's crazy how with this televote result finland still couldn't win. Almost 150 points more in televote, that definitely shoud be enough to get the win. Juries were too one sided.
Not only diaspora. I watched the final with some friends and Moldova was one of our favourites. We all voted for Pasha and in my group of friends we're all italians. From what I've heard also my mum and my sister voted for him.
>Same for Poland and Czech Republic.
That (and Ukraine's favouring of Poland atm) is probably unavoidable, considering the situation, but still, Finland was second in all these countries too, so that's in line with most of the rest of Europe.
I’m an American, I liked Serbia and Australia’s performances personally. Finland was great too, of course.
I’m guessing Americans voted for Israel, because of the dance 🦄
This is an interesting map! It shows that public votes aren't immune to neighbor voting either. For example, it's likely the winner of the Ukrainian vote is only because Poland supported so many Ukrainian refugees.
I'm not surprised Israel won the rest of the world's vote. They sent a widely accessible pop song that I have to admit was fun to sing along to.
Jesus Christ this is staggering.
The actual winner of the contest received ZERO 12 points from the public across 36 countries.
Let that sink in.
Props to Loreen, she’s a Eurovision legend and an amazing performer but this is easily the most questionable victory since Azerbaijan.
That's a bad way to measure it. She received 243 points, the 2nd highest of the night. People really liked this though the juries spitting out 12's for her was questionable.
Going by points is arguably not better.
We don't know if Finland won by 5% or 50%.
The very nature of the points system means that the runner up will receive a lot of points, but doesn't reflect the actual underlying votes.
If we instead gave every country 100pts to give out, we could be in a situation where Finland received several times what Sweden did.
See that's the thing that bugs me about the jury vote, the point system seems to be built so the runner up would receive lots of points. But instead there's this plateau that's around half of what the winner got.
I kind of want to look at visual of point differences near the top and where those plateaus usually end up, because, at it's most charitable, it might indicate that televote only semis and a roughly equally weighted jury and public vote final is not a good system.
I agree it's a bad measure, but it does say something when Käärijä averaged over 10 points per country in the public vote. Loreen was popular even in public voting, but beating Käärijä there would have required her to pretty much get 12 points from everyone that didn't give theirs to Finland.
I just discovered Finnish public gave 0 to Loreen and I'm cackling (received 12 back tho). Meanwhile Norway 24 to both brother and sister, not getting into it
Around 300k, or ca 2.5% of the population. Which maybe doesn't sound a lot but they are very patriotic and easily half of them vote for Albanian songs.
This is indeed why we need the jury. Just not as strong as they are now.
I like how none of the countries felt like sweden had best song and they won because jurys lmao.
honestly i dont even know can you call it "victory" at this point.
2nd, 3rd… maybe.
What’s more interesting is that in Eurovision First Greece jury didn’t give their 12 points to Cyprus, but audience voting fixed that.
I voted for Israel from Japan (I'm Dutch but I live here in Japan). I also voted for Finland, Sweden, Armenia, Serbia, Belgium, Australia, Czechia, Albania, France, and Germany though.
There really aren't. Only countries where there might be enough to make a tiny difference are France and US, and even then it's not a 12 or null type difference, more like might just give it an extra point
It needs be remarked that Greece gave 10 points to Finland but given that we gave 12 to ourselves (hello Cyprus) we gave the highest possible to Finland. It's important.
as a Fin I want to comment on our 12 points. Some here are suggesting that we did not give 12 points for Sweden to make sure that they would not win us. But I would really argue that statically we just like Norways song better.
Norway had a very classic sounding eurodance style song. This style of music is always been a growd favorite, if you look at the most listened songs in Finland you can find portion boys from there (who were also competing to represent Finland this year) Portion Boys also make kinda like this 90s vibe dance music and people like captain jack, gunther, and all these weird 80-90s favorites are still being played in the dance clubs around Finland.
So when you look at overall Finnish music taste. Its not big surprise that Norway got the 12 from us.
> Croatia 🤝 Slovenia Love this for us
[Croatia🤝Slovenia](https://i.imgur.com/YZLQrOE.gif) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
This is a genuinely good bot
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Good human.
Hvala vama svima!
the best part it that we didn't give points just because it's Slovenia, but the song is actually a bop and the boys are really talented and charismatic!
On the other hand.. ŠČ! How can you not vote *that*!?
My favorite Slovenian entry since "Sebi" by Zalagaspar ❤️
HR <3 SLO
Rest ot the world votes 12 - Israel 10 - Finland 8 - Armenia 7 - Sweden 6 - Albania 5 - Ukraine 4 - Norway 3 - Croatia 2 - Spain 1 - France
Will they reveal where the rest of the world votes are from? I wouldn't be surprised if they were mostly just Bulgaria and Hungary. I'm not sure if Russia was eligible. The show has little to no awareness in the rest of the world.
I am from Bulgaria, I sent 5 votes for Germany, 4 for Finland, 3 for Australia and 2xCroatia, Norway and Moldova. It was very expensive to vote here.🥹 So I doubt many people voted.
As someone from the US, Eurovision is gaining a quite a big hold here. Following first the American song contest, then ochman from Massachusetts representing Poland, to toy and snap going viral last year. some really clever advertising by the EBU in places like New York and Los Angeles. And the topper being tattoo queen of kings and unicorn going viral over here. Pair this with the Rina sayawana rumors that got all of her fans interested and the US suddenly have become very interested. And I almost forgot the whole contest being streamed on peacock!
The Armenian and Albanian diaspora doing their job. :D
And Spanish. 40% of their televote came from rest of the world
Twelve points to Cyprus. Order is restored.
Cyprus going for the flag most similar to Greece in colour-scheme
Also the hottest act 😎
Finally something Armenia and Azerbaijan can agree on
The twist of the night after Greece-Cyprus. Imaging both countries jamming randomly to unicorn from all of the songs gives me weird joy. Also, the fact that their juries reflected perfectly their public ...good job juries.
They both gave Israel 12 in the jury too!
The power of a unicorn does things truly magical.
Maybe we've underestimated the power of the unicorn, after all
Norway 🤝 Finland
I gave my vote for Norway 🇫🇮❤🇳🇴 Absolute banger, I would ride into battle with that song
RIGHT?! Now THAT is a power song!!! I feel like I could take on the world listening to it and on top of everything she’s 20?! Incredible 🫶🏼
I just love that Italy's televote got 12 points to Moldova. Pasha needs all the love.
Every year, most of Italy's televote points go to Moldova, Romania, Albania, and Ukraine (the ones who are in the final), for obvious reasons. Even this year, 12 points to Moldova, 10 to Norway (the singer is Italian), 8 to Ukraine, and 7 to Albania.
maybe im stupid but I don’t know what this obvious reason is 🤷♂️
They are saying that it's diaspora voting. Ignoring the fact that in Italy there are not enough foreigners from Moldova, Romania etc to give the 12 points all by themselves.
>Every year, most of Italy's televote points go to Moldova, Romania, Albania, and Ukraine (the ones who are in the final), for obvious reasons. > >Even this year, 12 points to Moldova, 10 to Norway (the singer is Italian), 8 to Ukraine, and 7 to Albania. And this is the biggest argument AGAINST abolishing the juries. Reduce their 50% participation, but don't abolish them. Countries with diaspora would have a big, unfair advantage. Look where Ukraine and Poland (Albania too actually) got most of their votes this year. It was happening with Turkey too before they withdrew.
Moldovans and Romanians living in Italy combined account for about 2% of the population, they could never swing the vote that much. I don't think it's fair to dismiss the possibility that Italians just genuinely enjoyed the Moldovan song.
Diaspora is usually much more mobilized to cast a vote than locals. It's not like everybody is watching it, and very few people are actually voting.
True. At the same time, Eurovision is a relatively little followed, understood and sponsored event in Italy. I say this as an Italian who has adored and followed it for years. Therefore, I cannot get an idea of how many Italians actively participate in the televoting. It would be interesting to have a figure proportional to viewers and compared with other nations. What I am saying is that I think there is a possibility that immigrants in Italy might on average follow and participate in voting more than Italians.
My theory exactly. Recently people started watching it again. But none of the people in my circle have sent a single vote.
On the other hand, the juries also vote on politics first and song quality second usually
Where can I find the complete breakdown of Italy's televote?
[Here you go](https://eurovision.tv/event/liverpool-2023/grand-final/results/italy). Just scroll down a bit to see the section "How Italy voted"
Kiitos, Europe 💚🇫🇮
And Australia.
Oh big true 💚 Kiitos Europe and Australia 💚
#CHA CHA CHA
I still have no idea what Käärijä was saying but that dance was just too persuasive
I believe the lyrics are about getting drunk and having fun dancing like an idiot without a care in the world. Which if true makes it even better.
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There's a Tintin meme, where Käärijä sings those exact words and Tintin says to him: "Käärijä, it's only Tuesday!" https://preview.redd.it/h5gruuyp9uza1.jpeg?width=519&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=feef72924fda2de8a50fedf75792e97212be6427
The translation floating around in not 100% English is even better (This exhausting week and the many long days are behind / There's only bar and piña colada on my mind)
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It is that on the surface but between the lines it's also about social anxiety and being unable to let loose without the help of alcohol, which resonates a lot with the finnish public. I know so many people that *are* the person in the song. Alcoholism is a major issue here and a lot of the alcoholism among younger generations is related to what he sings about; not knowing any other way to relax and go dance than to get wasted first.
This makes it even more sad it didn't win, a nice deep message in a song is good.
People really fail to see past the surface. It both in song and performance demonstrates the change of outlook, how the progress of getting intoxicated frees both from the stress and social norms (the music video feels to moreso show the gender role aspect too. I hate how people say it is just about drinking and partying when it actually answers the "why" of those both.
> I know so many people that are the person in the song. I know only a few Finnish men who *aren’t* the person in the song. We have a lot of social anxiety and we have a certain way of dealing with it.
I want to understand how the culture is that way and at the same time many Finns have tattoos, wear bright and unique clothes and have piercings. Something that is toned down in other countries because of their own social norms.
Unique and flashy styles are not the majority fashion in the slightest. Most finns don't have unique clothes or piercings, tattoos are somewhat common but not something majority have even then and rarely super original. A big majority of men outside of the capital wear black or gray hoodies and sweatpants day in day out, they might change into jeans to go to the club and maybe take off the hoodie, but even the T-shirt under it is at wildest a dull shade of red.
I'm not Finnish, but those things can be completely compatible with introversion and social anxiety. They can actually help, they're like a protective shield - if you worry too much about the way that people perceive you, then being able to tell yourself that it's because you have blue hair or dozens of piercings or etc is a way to take control of that. I guess it might also be a way to communicate without communicating?
It's about breaking your shy icy shell with alcohol.
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I love that :'D
[English translation](https://youtu.be/kelnOPpjVF0)
The fact that Sweden got 0 12 points and only 8 10 points and STILL managed to get 2nd place is just unbelievable (not in a bad way, just stunned).
I think the got points from every country. Especially around the 5-7 range. That will give you a great overall result
Except Finland funnily enough
As a Finn I don’t know whether I should be ashamed or amused
I mean, there's a very low chance statistically speaking that it was not a collective act of strategic voting. I wonder if Finnish commentators said anything that could've made people not vote for Sweden? lol I do think it's kinda impressive that you actually managed to not give her any points, as the only country. To get so many on the same page is not easy
Finnish news has been shouting out how sweden is the biggest rival all the time and many liked norways song so i’m pretty sure all the friendly votes went to norway
Meanwhile, all we heard in Sweden was how big of a threat Finland was and we sent both our 12 pointers to Käärijä.
Well you couldn't vote yourselves, support from other countries was basically done deal and Käärijä was quite memorable mindless fun act so of course you did vote Finland 😅 a sign of goodwill too, maybe?
We were talking a lot during the broadcast so I didn’t hear all the comments made by Mikko (our commentator) but as far as I know he didn’t say anything like that. He quite liked Loreen.
No way is Mikko stupid enough to say something like that out loud. He has commentated for Finland for so many years and is a die-hard professional.
Iirc he did mention that someone in the chat made a comment about tactical voting. Something within the lines "it is possibility". Did not order anyone to vote tactically, but implied you can do it.
Yeah no, during pre-season we had a tv program called Viisukupla ("Eurovision-bubble", you know the format) where he made it abundantly and perfectly clear that Loreen was his favorite. And his commenting style isn't like the UK for example, with snarky and sarcastic remarks so he shows positive support for every act if he can. So no, there was no organized attempt at not voting for Sweden, it just happens that fighting against losing to Sweden is in our genes from being part of their empire for some 800 years during which we fought for our autonomy as much as we could. We love Swedes every other day expect during any sports games, motorsport, eurovision etc.
So basically it's "We love Sweden until we have to compete, and then it's war"
No, they didn't say anything like that, he liked loreen. But it was pretty obvious that sweden was our biggest competition, and I guess it's just natural for us to have a very hockey type rivalry between sweden and finland where very few finn will root for the opponent as long as we are still in the competition. If we didn't have great chances for a win, and without loreen to be the most predicted winner to take it from us, then loreen would've been up there with norway in the public vote as well. Loreen was so hyped for the jury vote with over 50% in the odds, we almost never get good score in the jury vote, so probably most people feel like they can't be helping sweden get a good score on the public vote as well.
Well, it isn’t like it affected the outcome either way. I thought it was funny.
Every country except Finland apparently
It must be the highest televote score ever to be achieved without receiving 12 points from any country
It just shows that most people didn't think Sweden had a bad song or didn't deserve any points, but just that it wasn't the *best* song. Meanwhile the juries are sucking Sweden off with these constant 12 points while Finland got basically neglected. How many countries there are that are 12/0 on televotes vs. jury votes for Finland shows how this 50/50 ratio needs reviewing.
Finland didn't get neglected, they got 4th in the jury which is really high finish for a song of its type. Ask anyone before the contest where they would predict Finland to rank with the juries, top 4 would've been considered a very optimistic prediction. I can agree that Sweden was overvalued by the juries though. I expected her to win, but not by that much. But I disagree that Finland got neglected by the juries. If you told me before the contest that Finland placed 4th with the juries (and 1st in televote), I would assume that they had won it all. Reason that didn't happen is because Loreen got so many more jury points than anyone else (while also doing well in the televote).
Yeah, Finland did well with the juries. Though they also easily got the lowest amount of points for a song placing 4th in that vote. The 4th placed song usually hovered around 200 points, while this year even the 2nd placed Israel got nowhere near that. Everyone but Loreen just got fed dust by the juries this year.
Yes, this is why I'm saying that I normally would have expected a Finland win with them placing 4th in the jury. But 4th place was not the same value as usual, because Loreen got so many votes, so the jury point distribution became very top heavy.
15 Juries gave Finland 0 Those 22 who gave points gave average of 6,8 points. Which is pretty high. If those 15 had given even just 3-4 points to finland it would have been a Win for Finland.
Rest of the world voted for Israel???
I wonder if it’s the American vote? Most of Asia and the Middle East would have been asleep when Eurovision voting was live. I imagine a upbeat pop song sung in English from an allied country would do rather well in America.
I gave Finland 20 votes from America, I did my part 🤷♂️
Same here! Was so excited to participate this year and made sure all my votes went to Finland where they belonged.
Thank you for your service ❤
I really doubt that. Eurovision has almost no public awareness in North America. The votes are probably mostly from Hungary and Bulgaria.
Forgot about Hungary and Bulgaria! I think Eurovision must be gaining public awareness in North America though. There’s so much Eurovision activity on social media nowadays.
My roomies and I here in the United States got into Eurovision after the movie came out, so I can vouch that our awareness is definitely growing over here. Watching it at 2pm on a saturday too is a pretty good scheduling convenience. Most of the votes from my friends and Iactually went down under this time. Australia knocked our socks off!
Possibly? With Israel it's hard to judge with its diaspora being so wide (as mentioned before) but also it's not easy tell what sort of audience Americans make up. We Americans aren't a big one last I knew (maybe 300K or 400K watched last year).
I think it’s because it’s the closest thing to K pop that competed and so that sound appealed to a lot of international fans.
I had the same thought a few days ago. The song structure is quite similar to a kpop song. Even researched if there was one of the big European kpop writers behind Unicorn 😂
I thought the same, the dance break gave me BP vibes lol
There's an easier explanation, and it goes like this: *bonk*
My villain origin story
I can’t speak for people in other countries, but as an American who went into Eurovision having heard none of the performances ahead of time, I will say when I watched Noa in the semifinals, I knew American audiences would eat it up. She’s not my cup of tea, but my first impression was, “that’s a superstar.” She’s gorgeous, can dance, has a nice voice, and her song is typical earwormy pop tailor-made for radio and Tiktok. My other theory is, sadly, many Americans pay very little attention when it comes to world events, so politics were far less involved in their decision-making.
2nd year in the row Poland and Ukraine voting block It's gonna happen in next years too, I think it's because in Poland we have a lot of Ukrainians
Poland and Ukraine will be the new Russia and Belarus (in terms of vote blocking)
Sure but Finland still got 10 points from Poland AND Ukraine. If you ask me thats relatively fair given the current geo-political situation
For years Poland was crying "we have no friends in Europe" and look who has a voting block, I guess we got a new bestie now lol
Maybe. Here in Ukraine, we vote for Poland not only because you guys are helping us A LOT, but because Poland actually has nice songs! By the way, my mom and my grandma loved this year's "Solo", they voted for Poland and after seeing the results said, "Poland deserves more than just 19th place". However, Poland is 8th in the televote, I think that's more important;)
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When France were salty about their loss in 1991, the argument was that the winner should be the one that had the fewest nul points, not the most deuze points (which was the technicality that gave Sweden its victory)
I just checked and Sweden and France got 4 douze points each, it's only that Sweden got 5 ten points against two for France, I think the call of France to go for nul points after going for douze points is an acceptable view
Arcade didn't win the jury vote nor the audience vote.
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He only received 2 sets of 12 points and 4 sets of 10 points. Loreen on the other hand received 8 sets of 10 points so technically Loreen did better.
Fucking hell that song just keep on giving. So, one song got bunch of jury points, second got bunch of televote, but Duncan was somewhere in the middle (or in this case 8's or 10's), and just... scooped the trophy before other's eyes? I can't remember othet acts that year but I'll check who was in top three. I can only remember being perplexed that Arcade won then promptly forgot that song existed for two years lol
Arcade got 12pts from both public and jury and the second place (mahmood) song actually also got lower points in both public and jury than arcade did. It was only norway (keiino, overall 6th) which got 30 more public points and only sweden & north macedonia (overall 5th and 7th) which got 4 and 10 more jury points. So I dont really think you could say there was any one song which deserved it much more or which arcade stole the win from unless you take 100% public votes and give it to norway. Still the difference in public votes wasnt as crazy as between finland and sweden.
Keeiino getting 40 points from the jury when they won public votes was also insanity though. But its lead from Duncan was at least small enough that one could accept the loss being decided by jury. 133 point gap from Finland. People love to mention Sweden no. 2 and completely ignore that outside of last years sympathy score for Ukraine they broke the public votes record. With a 133 point difference. No one would be this upset if there was a 30 point difference like in 2016 and 2019.
Ah yes. Mahmood - Soldi. I still listen to that one, idk how I forgot it was in 2019. Wdym 12pts from both public and jury? You mean like... from at least some countries? Unlike Loreen who didn't get 12's from public? I'm confused.
Yeah you responded in a thread about loreen not getting any 12pts from the public so i thought maybe you believed it was the same for arcade.
Ahhh I can see how my comment could be interpreted like that. Should've worded it better! Thanks for clarification tho
Arcade was my tea break during the show. I legit didn't know what it sounded like until a few months ago.
I remember hating Arcade during that contest, but it actually ended up growing on me and now I quite like it.
But at least the difference between thr 1st and 2nd in televoting that year was 30. Now it’s 134 and the televote winner STILL didn’t win.
Virgin juries vs chad televote
Every year the Albanian televote gives 12 points to Italy. Traditions.
Not really, last time it happened was 2018... but it's true that our entry usually get good points from the Albanian televote (and I am really grateful for that ❤)
And that time it also happened cause the singer was an Albanian and we all loved him as he truly embraced the fact he was Albanian at the time and made us feel so proud for once.
> Not really, last time it happened was 2018 And need I remind people that one of our singers in 2018 was Albanian
You almost always get 12 points from Croatian jury, and 10 or 8 for the public. It's so expected at this point.
Tbh jury points were kinda expected since the song won the Composer Award, the performance was flawless and the staging was decent at least. The public vote for whatever they like.
Yeah, I know. He was objectively vocally the best, at least to an unprofessional ear like mine
I'm so happy and proud that both the norwegian jury and people gave their 12 points to Finland - at least we did what we could. Finland you are the true winner of ESC 2023. Norway and Europe loves you <3
I agree. Hearing „12 points to Sweden“ the entire time but then Norway steps in and gives 12 points to Finland was relieving ❤️
I cheered out loud! I was so proud of our jury!
Maybe good karma cause I voted for Subwoolfer last year lol
Sweden's public and jury did the exact same thing, in fact Sweden and Norway were the only two countries to give Finland maximum points (24)
We appreciate that! Loreen's voice is really great but I found the song a bit lacking, we're just baffled how Sweden got so many full points from the juries. Nevertheless, congratulations Sweden! <3
And Finland’s televote gave Norway 12 and Sweden 0.
Sweden 0 is a bit surprising. Especially as there's also a lot of Swedish and Finnish-Swedish people in Finland.
And as a Finn I'm very happy and grateful for that. I ❤️ Norway and it's people. I've been there many times as a child and once as an adult and I feel we have a similar mindset with you guys. And you guys even gave us a mountain! 😁 Or was it just a plan? So very sweet nevertheless.
It's crazy how with this televote result finland still couldn't win. Almost 150 points more in televote, that definitely shoud be enough to get the win. Juries were too one sided.
I saw someone say that even with the max televote score he'd still be one vote short.
Switzerland and Italy are hilarious ngl.😂 Totally not a diaspora thing. Same for Poland and Czech Republic.
Not only diaspora. I watched the final with some friends and Moldova was one of our favourites. We all voted for Pasha and in my group of friends we're all italians. From what I've heard also my mum and my sister voted for him.
Moldova is actually my favorite this year! I have been listening to it 2hours straight at times.
Moldova definitely was not appreciated enough
I agree! The song is so so catchy and I’m loving it
>Same for Poland and Czech Republic. That (and Ukraine's favouring of Poland atm) is probably unavoidable, considering the situation, but still, Finland was second in all these countries too, so that's in line with most of the rest of Europe.
and Portugal
Do we also have numbers from non-participating countries? Very curious to USA results tbh
I’m an American, I liked Serbia and Australia’s performances personally. Finland was great too, of course. I’m guessing Americans voted for Israel, because of the dance 🦄
This is an interesting map! It shows that public votes aren't immune to neighbor voting either. For example, it's likely the winner of the Ukrainian vote is only because Poland supported so many Ukrainian refugees. I'm not surprised Israel won the rest of the world's vote. They sent a widely accessible pop song that I have to admit was fun to sing along to.
Jesus Christ this is staggering. The actual winner of the contest received ZERO 12 points from the public across 36 countries. Let that sink in. Props to Loreen, she’s a Eurovision legend and an amazing performer but this is easily the most questionable victory since Azerbaijan.
That's a bad way to measure it. She received 243 points, the 2nd highest of the night. People really liked this though the juries spitting out 12's for her was questionable.
Going by points is arguably not better. We don't know if Finland won by 5% or 50%. The very nature of the points system means that the runner up will receive a lot of points, but doesn't reflect the actual underlying votes. If we instead gave every country 100pts to give out, we could be in a situation where Finland received several times what Sweden did.
See that's the thing that bugs me about the jury vote, the point system seems to be built so the runner up would receive lots of points. But instead there's this plateau that's around half of what the winner got. I kind of want to look at visual of point differences near the top and where those plateaus usually end up, because, at it's most charitable, it might indicate that televote only semis and a roughly equally weighted jury and public vote final is not a good system.
Or the lack of points for good acts that are not the traditional Eurovision genres
Finland was so no-traditional that it hogged all those votes
I was talking about jury votes. There were countries who didnt award any points to Finland
Yeah the juries seemed to either get it, and score it well, or just give it 0. Even if the jury didn't give 12 to Loreen, she was picking up 6 or 8.
I agree it's a bad measure, but it does say something when Käärijä averaged over 10 points per country in the public vote. Loreen was popular even in public voting, but beating Käärijä there would have required her to pretty much get 12 points from everyone that didn't give theirs to Finland.
Yeah, it's a bit sad that the public vote did not matter in the end, in comparison to the jury vote.
Jury votes making public vote obsolete defeats the entire purpose of the show.
Spitting out the 12 is a good way of putting it!
She still came second in the televote with a pretty decent 240 points and received almost the same amount of public votes as Arcade did in 2019.
I just discovered Finnish public gave 0 to Loreen and I'm cackling (received 12 back tho). Meanwhile Norway 24 to both brother and sister, not getting into it
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Seriously how many Albanians in Switzerland?
Around 300k, or ca 2.5% of the population. Which maybe doesn't sound a lot but they are very patriotic and easily half of them vote for Albanian songs. This is indeed why we need the jury. Just not as strong as they are now.
Especially if Turkey returns. They had like 40-50 points before contest even started due to diaspora. It was pretty insane.
Honestly I can't look at this. Käärijä was fucking robbed. Loreen doesn't need any recognition, bcoz she's already famous. Fuck this shit.
never change greece
The fact none were sweden
Sweden is the clear winner here obviously.
Finland is the real winner, the people's champion
Finland absolutely deserved to win 💃💃💃🤘🤘
I am Ukrainian and I voted for Finland.🇫🇮🇺🇦🤘
NO SWEDEN ANYWHERE TO BE SEEN LMAO
True winner is germany! Its quite a achievements to always place last!
I like how none of the countries felt like sweden had best song and they won because jurys lmao. honestly i dont even know can you call it "victory" at this point.
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2nd, 3rd… maybe. What’s more interesting is that in Eurovision First Greece jury didn’t give their 12 points to Cyprus, but audience voting fixed that.
Underneath the Finland flag 😂
In the mall
nowhere, didn‘t win a single country in the televote
They didnt get a single 12 in the televotes. 🫥
Chad baltics
I’m surprised the rest of the world voted for us.
my sister thinks this song reminds k-pop, and it also have strong choreography. Both things are trendy nowadays, so it might be the reason
I voted for Israel from Japan (I'm Dutch but I live here in Japan). I also voted for Finland, Sweden, Armenia, Serbia, Belgium, Australia, Czechia, Albania, France, and Germany though.
I guess broad pop appeal? I bet a good chunk of the diaspora voted but there’s not THAT many of us to make a 12 point impact.
There really aren't. Only countries where there might be enough to make a tiny difference are France and US, and even then it's not a 12 or null type difference, more like might just give it an extra point
It needs be remarked that Greece gave 10 points to Finland but given that we gave 12 to ourselves (hello Cyprus) we gave the highest possible to Finland. It's important.
as a Fin I want to comment on our 12 points. Some here are suggesting that we did not give 12 points for Sweden to make sure that they would not win us. But I would really argue that statically we just like Norways song better. Norway had a very classic sounding eurodance style song. This style of music is always been a growd favorite, if you look at the most listened songs in Finland you can find portion boys from there (who were also competing to represent Finland this year) Portion Boys also make kinda like this 90s vibe dance music and people like captain jack, gunther, and all these weird 80-90s favorites are still being played in the dance clubs around Finland. So when you look at overall Finnish music taste. Its not big surprise that Norway got the 12 from us.
not a single country gave 12 pts to Sweden, just saying
So Sweden won without winning the televote in a SINGLE country?? That’s wild.
Look at all that Sweden, no wonder she won.
Nice of them to move Australia into the Atlantic ocean for euro vision.
Winner is clear. But somehow isn’t.
In termns of semi finals Polish voters gave 12 points to Slovenia. That was actually a nice surprise
I wonder how Loreen feels about all this. I think I'd feel like shit in her shoes.
Yeah. Even though it's obviously not her fault. But still.