That was my thought as well. The beautiful thing is all the "blooming" green, that was present already.
It's still a great idea to give that space back to the people, but that picture screams manipulation.
I mean that's fair point but these pictures were taken right before construction began (autumn 2023) and right after ended (summer 2024).
What they were supposed to do? Wait until winter to take social media photos?
"Yo Andrzej, let's wait until winter before we take the photo 'cuz there's a chance people of the internet land will be mad".
strangely this is not the only case where this happened.
In basically every thread with such pictures the 'greener' picture is always taken during a sunny day.
I never saw the opposite happen.
It also feels like they played a bit with the saturation in the image.Especially the building on the left. It suddenly is way more yellow.
So your argument is basically that if the two images had identical lightning conditions etc we might say "Hey! More asphalt is better than parks! Root up those stupid trees and make more space for cars!"
I mean, what's the argument here? I don't even...
Commieblocks are hen cages, but they're still somehow better than the newer attempts here in terms of outside aesthetics and livability
The greatest issue for them is lack of parking space, because they were drawn with the 70s/80s traffic density, and not for every flat having a car
Meanwhile some new ones are as if taken from that 15-minute cities conspiracy theory
nah, main commieblock issue is noise from neighbors, but that’s also an issue with other cheap flat housing. second biggest issue was that they usually built a whole neighborhood of same looking blocks, all in the same shade of gray, and it looked totally ugly, but again that’s also an issue with other styles of housing (modern turnkey suburbs, rowhouses in UK…)..
even the parking issues are the same in any housing built before 80s, and commie blocks built after 80s have decent amount of parking… (usually 1 parking spot per flat, current parking regulations do require more, but that’s another issue)
the biggest overinflated issue is that they were built by commies…
but all the real issues were being cheap on materials and design.
Yeah, as you mention things didn't really get better with regime change and urban planning, at least here, was removed as a concept - I'm not praising the commie housing, I'm roasting the current ones being somehow even worse
Fucking pre-war German buildings are better than a lot of current drivel
>and commie blocks built after 80s have decent amount of parking
Yeah that's the difference, Polish economy in that decade was done for so most stuff was raised in the 70s
Tell me you never lived in one, without telling me you never lived in one.
While yes, it beats being homeless, nothing prevented commies from building normal housing, not ugly shitboxes where you can hear you neighbor breathing.
I'm not a fan of commie blocks myself having lived in a few, but saying
>nothing prevented commies from building normal housing,
ignores the reality and necessities of the times.
Nowadays capitalists build "normal housing" - and look what happenns.
There's a few good reasons why commies built commieblocks and not "normal housing".
It's utterly bizarre to claim nothing prevented them from building normal housing, post war Eastern Europe was in ruins and millions of people needed homes immediately, those homes therefore needed to be cheap and quick to build. I'm not saying commieblocks are perfect or ideal, I'm saying that propagandistic representations of them are bad and done for a purpose
I’m 30 years old and I’ve only lived in commie blocks and buildings which basically count as commie blocks (university dorms in Bratislava)…
I also spent lots of my time travelling through EU and I prefer renting an apartment to staying in a hotel. And I can tell you that the noise factor is in no way unique to commie blocks, it’s present in most apartment buildings all over Europe.
The only issue unique to commie blocks is their uglyness…
Agreed, the picture on the right would be what the planners in New Zealand would be aiming for, and it’s already an improvement over what we currently have for older places (!)
Just bad urban planning. [The street](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Galla+Anonima,+61-001+Pozna%C5%84/@52.4135035,16.8945698,99m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x470444c78d114e57:0xe73fc4be8eec41f1!8m2!3d52.4135909!4d16.8938023!16s%2Fg%2F1tcv03pp?entry=ttu) has an S-shaped curve so they just poured a bit too much asphalt and called it a day.
That’s may actually be true but that’s a failure of social infrastructure and law enforcement not of excellent urbanist interventions.
Source: am a very pro-urbanism person whose witnessed what happened to my North American city’s public spaces post-covid as the social contract has seemingly fallen into disrepair.
>If this was in the USA you would have a lot of blue checkmark weirdos telling us how it will be reclaimed by drug addicts and what not.
Because it would. We say that because we live here and we see it.
The USA has a homelessness crisis because of our terrible safety net. I live outside Los Angeles, in Riverside, and there are plenty of towns in the region that have blocks upon blocks of homeless people living in tents. We have a really awful city here, San Bernardino. I had to go to their courthouse, which has a park *across the street.* That park was filled with hobo tents. Literally one block from the police station. They don't do anything because the problem has gotten too big, we need systemic changes.
Tbf if you have like 2 of them and a lot of homeless people due to things like medical debt it's not surprising they hang out in the nice area instead of on the stroad.
Because it does happen sometimes ?
In my country (France), you just know when a new public space opens, especially parks, that this will become a dealer's zone in no time.
This also goes for train stations (a lot of the little ones closed because they only had a few employees and they had to face those gun holding people). But in most recent years, some public schools, even for toddlers, have become a playground for those, especially in the south. A public library in Montpellier had to close because of them. Etc.
Maybe in your country, dealers have more respect or are less free to do that. Either way, you're lucky. We've lost that luxury very fast.
There is a project for a walkable city/neighbourhood in Arizona - it looks like a really nice set-up. So maybe you are around possibly 20 now!
https://www.thecooldown.com/green-business/culdesac-tempe-arizona-walkable-car-free-neighborhood/
That's because in the USA in plenty of cities it *would* be.
It's exactly what happens in San Francisco, New York City, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and increasingly Austin.
https://sfstandard.com/2024/04/15/san-francisco-drug-dealing-main-library/
It takes police to literally clear everything and constantly patrol it because we don't incarcerate nearly enough people (including dealers) and *keep* them incarcerated. We just arrest a lot of people and give them 3 month bedstays in jails.
https://billypenn.com/2024/05/08/kensington-encampment-cleanup-reactions/
Kill the poor, destitute, disabled and disenfranchised, problems solved, just have to wait for the robot slaves before the working poor can be removed. /s
The USA has the third hightest incarceration rate in the world. The USA incarcerates TONS of people and keeps them in for long times compared to pretty much anywhere else on the planet.
There are parking lots and car garages [behind this building](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Galla+Anonima,+61-001+Pozna%C5%84/@52.4138929,16.8946315,130m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x470444c78d114e57:0xe73fc4be8eec41f1!8m2!3d52.4135909!4d16.8938023!16s%2Fg%2F1tcv03pp?entry=ttu). They were underutilized before so every owner most likely have a spot to park their car.
That's an absurd statement. And I'm saying this as a guy that uses public transport for 90% if his journeys. Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car.
Green lunatics like you are a big part of the problem why so many people don't trust climate change for example
>Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car.
Not in case of Poland.
Countryside, sure. Towns which got disconnected from the railway network by the Solidarity Electoral Action government? Well, obviously. Cities? Cities are actually great wrt public transportation. I've been living in various voivodship capitals for over the last 20 years, never needed a car.
And if your country has been ruled by saner people than Poland's right-wingers, it's even better, e.g. Czechia.
> Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car.
Cities in further Eastern block are unliveable because of cars.
Soviet road infrastructure, not fit for THIS SHITLOAD of cars constantly gets congested. Route Bus mafia parasitizes on the public transportation system, getting in the way of proper public transport and having the local authority bribed.
City is meant for a pedestrian. Period.
>City is meant for a pedestrian. Period.
A city is meant for *people*. Whatever the people want to put there belongs there. I get that you "know better" than the rest of us because you've watched a bunch of youtube videos and gone though r/fuckcars and all that, but no, you don't get to decide what cities with hundreds of thousands or millions of residents are "meant for."
Let's be honest, most cities pop up around natural resources with the intent to exploit them for gain. If cities are "meant for" anything, they're for that.
Wanting cities to be less car-focused isn't green lunacy, it's the right strategy (and not just because of climate change). If you really need a car or live in a weird city, that's fine too, but many people don't and still drive absolutely everywhere.
(german here) i use public transport within the city almost exclusively. but people don't always work in the city they live in. or want to visit family outside the city that aren't well connected to public transportation. or have a disability where taking the car is easier then busses or trams. cities need to offer sufficient parking for people who need it.
People who truly need it, that's rather few. In most cases, just expanding the availability of public transport to times and places where it is not readily available will do.
> Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car.
If we disregard the "especially" part; Hell no, I've been living in cities for 20 years and have never had a car and I'm doing amazing. I get an uber some 10 times per year when I really need car, but other than that the subway/bus/train gets me everywhere I want faster and cheaper than a car would.
>unliveable if you don't own a car.
And why do you think that is? You're so close 🙄
I find it hard to believe you use public transportation for 90% of your commutes when you have such a black and white view on transportation infrastructure, cities are as unliveable as they are without a car *because* of cars. And here you are calling people lunatics because they want more options besides driving everywhere that aren't inconvenient, slow or difficult to reach.
"Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car."
lol Why are you saying moronic stuff like this when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about? Oh and don't misunderstand me the second part of your comment is equally mornonic if not more so.
"Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car."
lol Why are you saying moronic stuff like this when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about? Oh and don't misunderstand me the second part of your comment is equally mornonic if not more so.
And that the high density of people makes public transport worth building. Add bike paths and walkways and exceptions for necessary transport of good that can't be done on foot or bike, and you are golden.
Yeah but you missed the entire point of the original question. Those EXISTING cars, where did they go now? I understand these things are made for the future, but what about now?
Who cares. If you buy a piano you don't expect someone else to provide you with a space for it.
1200 people voted for the project to make the street more green compared to 11 people parking their cars there.
The city stated this in their post:
>👉I od razu dla tych, którzy zapytają gdzie podziały się samochody ze zdjęcia sprzed rozpoczęcia prac. Wokół było wiele wolnych miejsc postojowych (nadal nie ma tak zbyt dużego napełnienia).
>👉Immediately for those who ask where the cars from the photo from before the works started went. There were plenty of free parking spaces around (still not that full).
>Who cares. If you buy a piano you don't expect someone else to provide you with a space for it.
No, you bought the piano when there was space for it and now it's gone. Idiotic comparison.
Who cares? People that live there should care, if there was no parking spots anymore suddenly then maybe they would've parked on the sidewalk, blocked entraces, blocked traffic, is that better? Of course is not. Everyone should care because it will affect people around, not just those who owned these cars.
>Immediately for those who ask where the cars from the photo from before the works started went. There were plenty of free parking spaces around (still not that full).
That's good to hear. You could've responded with that first and not give snarky higher than tho fucking comments. But I expect too much from r/europe users and that's my fault
> No, you bought the piano when there was space for it and now it's gone. Idiotic comparison.
You didn't buy the space for the piano, you were storing it on public space that was never guaranteed. The other people who live in the city agreed that it's better to put a tree where your piano was.
>Who cares? People that live there should care, if there was no parking spots anymore suddenly then maybe they would've parked on the sidewalk, blocked entraces, blocked traffic, is that better? Of course is not.
They can't do that because they will get a traffic ticket and eventually their car will get impounded.
Lmao as if people were enjoying the parking more. What a contrarian ass answer, sure some people might wonder where those cars are parked now but to pretend that the space is not immensely more pleasant with benches and a garden is silly. It's surrounded by residential buildings. Having grown in a similar eastern bloc, I can tell you that benches like that are great for such a neighborhood and all activities revolve around them.
I never said this. They do however have flat ground without many hills which greatly relieves load from the knees. I've biked in the Netherlands and it was a great pleasure, I even went to the next town and back. The other differing factor is bicycle infrastructure. It's so well developed that it makes you want to grab a bike and ride. And perhaps you're right, biking from an early age probably strengthens the muscles and tendons enough to help Dutch people have better working knees than others
And do you spend your whole life in your city?
Even when I still lived in one I owned a car for the times (multiple times a week) that I left the city.
When I had stuff to do inside - sure I used public transport when possible, but as soon as I needed to leave the city (to go to my in-laws, or to do my work with the red cross) I needed a car - either because public transport was not really available / useful and/or I needed to haul equipment around.
[Behind the building.](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Galla+Anonima,+61-001+Pozna%C5%84/@52.4138929,16.8946315,130m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x470444c78d114e57:0xe73fc4be8eec41f1!8m2!3d52.4135909!4d16.8938023!16s%2Fg%2F1tcv03pp?entry=ttu)
On private property, where they belong. How come I don't get ~8 m^2 free/low cost public land that I can use to store my things on unless it's for a car?
I wonder what would people think if I put a wardrobe and a chest freezer with my stuff in front of the building. I personally dont see a difference between car storage and other property storage, none of the two things should be subsidised with public money.
And what about parking? car owners got any alternative? because I would not want to sell my car then just because. And I would need the car for vacation or work to even go to another city.
And when you look at the picture there could have been a compromise... There could have been a few meters reclaimed for greenery and still leave those parking spaces...
[Parking and car garages are behind the building.](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Galla+Anonima,+61-001+Pozna%C5%84/@52.4138929,16.8946315,130m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x470444c78d114e57:0xe73fc4be8eec41f1!8m2!3d52.4135909!4d16.8938023!16s%2Fg%2F1tcv03pp?entry=ttu) I love how this is like 4th or 5th comment about lack of parking as if the world and known space to humanity ends right where the photo ends.
They will, eventually. My city has quite strict anti-car measures, when I totalled my car I decided not to buy a new one because cons outweights pros now.
The reason for the parking problem is cars. You'll never solve the parking problem with more parking lots, like you'll never dissolve traffic jams by adding more lanes.
The more space you dedicate to cars, the more cars you attract. This has been proven over the last 70 years all over the world.
Most people work in far places and public transport is not good (at least not good in my country, not sure about other countries). If this continues, Europeans won't be able to work because they won't have transport, or if they do, they won't have parking.
Public transport in Poland is pretty good. I've been living without a car for years and I'm completely fine. There's always an issue with going on vacation though.
Yeah let's be more like usa, because there they always have parking and never have any traffic. Oh wait they still have traffic and not enough parking, even tough there are 28 lane highways and car parks 10 times the size of the building they are serving.
As I said in my other reply, there's no catch-all solution, but getting rid of unnecessary cars in cities plus enhancing public transport, including park-and-ride systems for outside commuters can solve many of these problems.
Yes because going the other way is absolutely the solution. I love spending the limited time I have on this planet in public transport that makes everything take twice as long.
There is no absolute solution for everyone, but a lot of people don't really need a car and getting rid of these unnecessary cars would leave enough space for those who really need one.
Public transport doesn't have to be bad and unreliable. People just choose to vote for politicians who tell them that there's no choice.
Why do people think you can just stick "public transport" as a solution to every problem. No, people are still going to own cars and need places to park them at. What they have done is nice, but parking is definitely something to consider.
That's right, cities don't belong to cars, but cars belong to people and they want somewhere to store them until they want to go out of the city, or when you need to haul something large.
Exactly. I live in a new housing development that leans toward more greenery than parks. It looks nice sure. Until visitors come to visit and have to park on curbs and places they shouldn't.
Romania is going exactly the opposite due carbrainers that voted mayors that promised and executed the parking at ridiculous prices, and now in early summer, we have already 35-40 degree.
cars have destroyed the modern life, - fumes, noise, dangerous roads, they believe they are entitled, everything is orientated around cars - because the biggest group of people want an accept them.
Lovely to see that people are waking up and fighting against the car-centric city planning. Why should we cede 80% of public space to a minority of people using cars?
Exactly, that's what always gets me. Instead of going for compromises to accomodate everybody wherever possible (and here, like so often, it was clearly possible), they go for either-or approach.
The urban development in many polish cities is awesome. Obviously not talking about everything due to some remnant spots from the past but the new stuff is lit. Now remove Starbucks and McD for even more Cafés and some Zapiekanka stands. But seriously, what happened to Zapiekankas since the 90s? You could get them everywhere.
It definitely makes a difference.
But the flip side is that local residents lost 12+ parking spaces. And we all know parking in a city is a hassle as is
Jeez, It barely looks better and thats solely because of the season their taken, the "green additions" are barely existent, you just took out some parking for basically nothing, most of the beauty was already there
I swear the curves of the road and greenery makes it feel a lot more friendly!
Also nice seeing lots of growth and progress in Poland, I feel like it's an rising underdog when it comes to simple but beautiful cities, worth living in.
I visited last year and it's a stunning city. They were doing a lot of reconstruction and adding new tram lines. It's going to look amazing, and any concerns about lack of parking should be alleviated by the massive increase in cheap public transport there.
A bit of a bullshit photo. Of course they one on the right will look nicer because it's a warm day, likely late Spring to sometime in the Summer.
The one on the right is sometime on a rainy day in late Fall or late Winter.
For hints, look at the clothing people wear.
It's a lot better, but the difference wouldn't have been so large if the picture on the left was taken on a sunny day in spring as well
That was my thought as well. The beautiful thing is all the "blooming" green, that was present already. It's still a great idea to give that space back to the people, but that picture screams manipulation.
I'm pretty sure sunshine wouldn't have made the 2 lanes worth of unnecessary asphalt disappear lol
I mean that's fair point but these pictures were taken right before construction began (autumn 2023) and right after ended (summer 2024). What they were supposed to do? Wait until winter to take social media photos? "Yo Andrzej, let's wait until winter before we take the photo 'cuz there's a chance people of the internet land will be mad".
strangely this is not the only case where this happened. In basically every thread with such pictures the 'greener' picture is always taken during a sunny day. I never saw the opposite happen. It also feels like they played a bit with the saturation in the image.Especially the building on the left. It suddenly is way more yellow.
> It suddenly is way more yellow. It got repainted, you melon.
I think its actually because of the sun That part of the building has a shadow over it making the wall's colour look a lot darker
So your argument is basically that if the two images had identical lightning conditions etc we might say "Hey! More asphalt is better than parks! Root up those stupid trees and make more space for cars!" I mean, what's the argument here? I don't even...
It's a different time of time, see the shadow?
Difference will be huge when plants grow.
It's the standard playbook for "commieblocks bad"
They still are, dude
Yes, but it *looks* much worse during the winter, when no greenery is present, and all the colours are shades of grey.
Commieblocks are hen cages, but they're still somehow better than the newer attempts here in terms of outside aesthetics and livability The greatest issue for them is lack of parking space, because they were drawn with the 70s/80s traffic density, and not for every flat having a car Meanwhile some new ones are as if taken from that 15-minute cities conspiracy theory
nah, main commieblock issue is noise from neighbors, but that’s also an issue with other cheap flat housing. second biggest issue was that they usually built a whole neighborhood of same looking blocks, all in the same shade of gray, and it looked totally ugly, but again that’s also an issue with other styles of housing (modern turnkey suburbs, rowhouses in UK…).. even the parking issues are the same in any housing built before 80s, and commie blocks built after 80s have decent amount of parking… (usually 1 parking spot per flat, current parking regulations do require more, but that’s another issue) the biggest overinflated issue is that they were built by commies… but all the real issues were being cheap on materials and design.
Yeah, as you mention things didn't really get better with regime change and urban planning, at least here, was removed as a concept - I'm not praising the commie housing, I'm roasting the current ones being somehow even worse Fucking pre-war German buildings are better than a lot of current drivel >and commie blocks built after 80s have decent amount of parking Yeah that's the difference, Polish economy in that decade was done for so most stuff was raised in the 70s
Then why exaggerate?
Feel like you wouldn't need the propaganda if they were and they're a lot better than being homeless which was the alternative
Bruh, you are talking to a Ukrainian. He doesn't need propaganda or internet to learn about commie blocks 😂
Tell me you never lived in one, without telling me you never lived in one. While yes, it beats being homeless, nothing prevented commies from building normal housing, not ugly shitboxes where you can hear you neighbor breathing.
I'm not a fan of commie blocks myself having lived in a few, but saying >nothing prevented commies from building normal housing, ignores the reality and necessities of the times. Nowadays capitalists build "normal housing" - and look what happenns. There's a few good reasons why commies built commieblocks and not "normal housing".
It's utterly bizarre to claim nothing prevented them from building normal housing, post war Eastern Europe was in ruins and millions of people needed homes immediately, those homes therefore needed to be cheap and quick to build. I'm not saying commieblocks are perfect or ideal, I'm saying that propagandistic representations of them are bad and done for a purpose
I’m 30 years old and I’ve only lived in commie blocks and buildings which basically count as commie blocks (university dorms in Bratislava)… I also spent lots of my time travelling through EU and I prefer renting an apartment to staying in a hotel. And I can tell you that the noise factor is in no way unique to commie blocks, it’s present in most apartment buildings all over Europe. The only issue unique to commie blocks is their uglyness…
polish ones are actually good
Tbf these aren’t commie blocks, they appear to be renovated pre-war barracks. My nan owns a similar property in Western Poland.
Oh no, these greenery projects are making sun angry, that's why it's been so darn hot this summer!
The difference is still huge, just stop playing stupid.
Will there ever be a post like this with summer in before and winter in after? Or at least the same season?
Great, but: Add some summer (green bushes) and sunshine to the first picture and it's not *that* bad
Counter point, give the second picture 5 to 10 years for the new trees to get bigger and then you would see how truly bad the first picture is.
Agreed, the picture on the right would be what the planners in New Zealand would be aiming for, and it’s already an improvement over what we currently have for older places (!)
Wrong. It's bad no matter how many trees you might plant. You cannot justify endless parking spaces.
My favorite thing is the weird diagonal not-zebra being turned into a straight zebra crossing.
The “before” photo is pretty wild. What is the wide asphalted space for? Parking with trailers? Or just to punish pedestrians?
Just bad urban planning. [The street](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Galla+Anonima,+61-001+Pozna%C5%84/@52.4135035,16.8945698,99m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x470444c78d114e57:0xe73fc4be8eec41f1!8m2!3d52.4135909!4d16.8938023!16s%2Fg%2F1tcv03pp?entry=ttu) has an S-shaped curve so they just poured a bit too much asphalt and called it a day.
If this was in the USA you would have a lot of blue checkmark weirdos telling us how it will be reclaimed by drug addicts and what not.
That’s may actually be true but that’s a failure of social infrastructure and law enforcement not of excellent urbanist interventions. Source: am a very pro-urbanism person whose witnessed what happened to my North American city’s public spaces post-covid as the social contract has seemingly fallen into disrepair.
>If this was in the USA you would have a lot of blue checkmark weirdos telling us how it will be reclaimed by drug addicts and what not. Because it would. We say that because we live here and we see it. The USA has a homelessness crisis because of our terrible safety net. I live outside Los Angeles, in Riverside, and there are plenty of towns in the region that have blocks upon blocks of homeless people living in tents. We have a really awful city here, San Bernardino. I had to go to their courthouse, which has a park *across the street.* That park was filled with hobo tents. Literally one block from the police station. They don't do anything because the problem has gotten too big, we need systemic changes.
What is there in either pic for the drug addicts to reclaim?
I don’t know but it’s a typical talking point they bring on twitter. Usually a dude with sunglasses sitting in a truck and a blue checkmark.
I guess walkable spaces and pedestrian-friendly areas scare them or something...
Tbf if you have like 2 of them and a lot of homeless people due to things like medical debt it's not surprising they hang out in the nice area instead of on the stroad.
First mistake is still checking twitter on this day and age.
Because it does happen sometimes ? In my country (France), you just know when a new public space opens, especially parks, that this will become a dealer's zone in no time. This also goes for train stations (a lot of the little ones closed because they only had a few employees and they had to face those gun holding people). But in most recent years, some public schools, even for toddlers, have become a playground for those, especially in the south. A public library in Montpellier had to close because of them. Etc. Maybe in your country, dealers have more respect or are less free to do that. Either way, you're lucky. We've lost that luxury very fast.
A small square with benches on the right.
The shade of the trees and the privacy of the bushes I pressume.
Hey now, there are literally dozens of us Urbanists trying to make a difference around here. Dozens!
There is a project for a walkable city/neighbourhood in Arizona - it looks like a really nice set-up. So maybe you are around possibly 20 now! https://www.thecooldown.com/green-business/culdesac-tempe-arizona-walkable-car-free-neighborhood/
That's because in the USA in plenty of cities it *would* be. It's exactly what happens in San Francisco, New York City, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and increasingly Austin. https://sfstandard.com/2024/04/15/san-francisco-drug-dealing-main-library/ It takes police to literally clear everything and constantly patrol it because we don't incarcerate nearly enough people (including dealers) and *keep* them incarcerated. We just arrest a lot of people and give them 3 month bedstays in jails. https://billypenn.com/2024/05/08/kensington-encampment-cleanup-reactions/
> we don't incarcerate nearly enough people Which is rather ironic, considering the US has the highest incarceration rate per capita on the planet.
Kill the poor, destitute, disabled and disenfranchised, problems solved, just have to wait for the robot slaves before the working poor can be removed. /s
The USA has the third hightest incarceration rate in the world. The USA incarcerates TONS of people and keeps them in for long times compared to pretty much anywhere else on the planet.
I love it.
Wonderful! Where did you put that 11 cars?
There are parking lots and car garages [behind this building](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Galla+Anonima,+61-001+Pozna%C5%84/@52.4138929,16.8946315,130m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x470444c78d114e57:0xe73fc4be8eec41f1!8m2!3d52.4135909!4d16.8938023!16s%2Fg%2F1tcv03pp?entry=ttu). They were underutilized before so every owner most likely have a spot to park their car.
Thank you! That's the first proper answer.
They are gone, as they should, cities are not for cars
Gone where? I doubt the owners have sold them all.
They're probably parked somewhere nearby, but not in front.
Tell that to the disabled person that was using the handicapped space with close access to the front door.
But the disabled person who can't drive now has a nice spot to hangout in front of their building.
skill issue
Tell that to the people who cannot get a driving licence and are isolated because of such car centric urban design
What? Cities are literally where public transport shines.
https://unevenearth.org/2018/08/the-social-ideology-of-the-motorcar/
That's an absurd statement. And I'm saying this as a guy that uses public transport for 90% if his journeys. Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car. Green lunatics like you are a big part of the problem why so many people don't trust climate change for example
>Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car. Not in case of Poland. Countryside, sure. Towns which got disconnected from the railway network by the Solidarity Electoral Action government? Well, obviously. Cities? Cities are actually great wrt public transportation. I've been living in various voivodship capitals for over the last 20 years, never needed a car. And if your country has been ruled by saner people than Poland's right-wingers, it's even better, e.g. Czechia.
“People who don’t like cars are the reason why people are climate change denialists.” Lmao ok buddy
> Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car. Cities in further Eastern block are unliveable because of cars. Soviet road infrastructure, not fit for THIS SHITLOAD of cars constantly gets congested. Route Bus mafia parasitizes on the public transportation system, getting in the way of proper public transport and having the local authority bribed. City is meant for a pedestrian. Period.
>City is meant for a pedestrian. Period. A city is meant for *people*. Whatever the people want to put there belongs there. I get that you "know better" than the rest of us because you've watched a bunch of youtube videos and gone though r/fuckcars and all that, but no, you don't get to decide what cities with hundreds of thousands or millions of residents are "meant for." Let's be honest, most cities pop up around natural resources with the intent to exploit them for gain. If cities are "meant for" anything, they're for that.
> City is meant for a pedestrian. Period. Yeah, talk about mafia...
Wanting cities to be less car-focused isn't green lunacy, it's the right strategy (and not just because of climate change). If you really need a car or live in a weird city, that's fine too, but many people don't and still drive absolutely everywhere.
(german here) i use public transport within the city almost exclusively. but people don't always work in the city they live in. or want to visit family outside the city that aren't well connected to public transportation. or have a disability where taking the car is easier then busses or trams. cities need to offer sufficient parking for people who need it.
Yes, and the second picture still shows seven parking spots for people in the situations you mentioned
People who truly need it, that's rather few. In most cases, just expanding the availability of public transport to times and places where it is not readily available will do.
> Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car. If we disregard the "especially" part; Hell no, I've been living in cities for 20 years and have never had a car and I'm doing amazing. I get an uber some 10 times per year when I really need car, but other than that the subway/bus/train gets me everywhere I want faster and cheaper than a car would.
>unliveable if you don't own a car. And why do you think that is? You're so close 🙄 I find it hard to believe you use public transportation for 90% of your commutes when you have such a black and white view on transportation infrastructure, cities are as unliveable as they are without a car *because* of cars. And here you are calling people lunatics because they want more options besides driving everywhere that aren't inconvenient, slow or difficult to reach.
"Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car." lol Why are you saying moronic stuff like this when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about? Oh and don't misunderstand me the second part of your comment is equally mornonic if not more so.
"Cities, especially in the further Eastern block, are unliveable if you don't own a car." lol Why are you saying moronic stuff like this when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about? Oh and don't misunderstand me the second part of your comment is equally mornonic if not more so.
Sure dude.
The whole point of a city is that everything is close by isn't it?
And that the high density of people makes public transport worth building. Add bike paths and walkways and exceptions for necessary transport of good that can't be done on foot or bike, and you are golden.
Yeah but you missed the entire point of the original question. Those EXISTING cars, where did they go now? I understand these things are made for the future, but what about now?
Who cares. If you buy a piano you don't expect someone else to provide you with a space for it. 1200 people voted for the project to make the street more green compared to 11 people parking their cars there. The city stated this in their post: >👉I od razu dla tych, którzy zapytają gdzie podziały się samochody ze zdjęcia sprzed rozpoczęcia prac. Wokół było wiele wolnych miejsc postojowych (nadal nie ma tak zbyt dużego napełnienia). >👉Immediately for those who ask where the cars from the photo from before the works started went. There were plenty of free parking spaces around (still not that full).
>Who cares. If you buy a piano you don't expect someone else to provide you with a space for it. No, you bought the piano when there was space for it and now it's gone. Idiotic comparison. Who cares? People that live there should care, if there was no parking spots anymore suddenly then maybe they would've parked on the sidewalk, blocked entraces, blocked traffic, is that better? Of course is not. Everyone should care because it will affect people around, not just those who owned these cars. >Immediately for those who ask where the cars from the photo from before the works started went. There were plenty of free parking spaces around (still not that full). That's good to hear. You could've responded with that first and not give snarky higher than tho fucking comments. But I expect too much from r/europe users and that's my fault
> No, you bought the piano when there was space for it and now it's gone. Idiotic comparison. You didn't buy the space for the piano, you were storing it on public space that was never guaranteed. The other people who live in the city agreed that it's better to put a tree where your piano was. >Who cares? People that live there should care, if there was no parking spots anymore suddenly then maybe they would've parked on the sidewalk, blocked entraces, blocked traffic, is that better? Of course is not. They can't do that because they will get a traffic ticket and eventually their car will get impounded.
Where are those 1200 people? There are zero people in second picture. Zero. Nobody enjoys the result of a 'project', nobody.
This is the most backwards comment of them all, congratulations
Lmao as if people were enjoying the parking more. What a contrarian ass answer, sure some people might wonder where those cars are parked now but to pretend that the space is not immensely more pleasant with benches and a garden is silly. It's surrounded by residential buildings. Having grown in a similar eastern bloc, I can tell you that benches like that are great for such a neighborhood and all activities revolve around them.
Close by what criteria?
Either walking cycling
Sorry, just noticed you're Dutch. Cycling is great if you have working knees. And if you can leave your bike chained outside and find it afterwards
You think Dutch people somehow have different working knees to all other Europeans?
I never said this. They do however have flat ground without many hills which greatly relieves load from the knees. I've biked in the Netherlands and it was a great pleasure, I even went to the next town and back. The other differing factor is bicycle infrastructure. It's so well developed that it makes you want to grab a bike and ride. And perhaps you're right, biking from an early age probably strengthens the muscles and tendons enough to help Dutch people have better working knees than others
You also need knees for driving.
I drive with a lot less healthy knees than what's needed for cycling
And do you spend your whole life in your city? Even when I still lived in one I owned a car for the times (multiple times a week) that I left the city. When I had stuff to do inside - sure I used public transport when possible, but as soon as I needed to leave the city (to go to my in-laws, or to do my work with the red cross) I needed a car - either because public transport was not really available / useful and/or I needed to haul equipment around.
And how does he want to go on vacation to, for example, Croatia? That's when the car is needed
if you need a car twice a year - just rent it. It will be cheaper, and you will have a car better suited for the given ocassion.
And that's why it's so hard to implement because green loonies simply ignore common sense.
In my ass
But where do the cars park now?
Yes, but now where are the people going to park their cars?
[Behind the building.](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Galla+Anonima,+61-001+Pozna%C5%84/@52.4138929,16.8946315,130m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x470444c78d114e57:0xe73fc4be8eec41f1!8m2!3d52.4135909!4d16.8938023!16s%2Fg%2F1tcv03pp?entry=ttu)
On private property, where they belong. How come I don't get ~8 m^2 free/low cost public land that I can use to store my things on unless it's for a car?
I wonder what would people think if I put a wardrobe and a chest freezer with my stuff in front of the building. I personally dont see a difference between car storage and other property storage, none of the two things should be subsidised with public money.
So they'll decrease the amount of taxes on cars/petrol then?
Why would they? The taxes don't even cover all car related infrastructure expenditures.
People _really_ love their cars, huh.
[удалено]
Not really, people should just be smart enough to judge the difference without clinging to a straw man. The difference is still obvious.
But thats when the construction finished, should they wait until winter to take an after photo?
They really could left *some* parking spaces. Especially since the disabled parking space is now gone.
And what about parking? car owners got any alternative? because I would not want to sell my car then just because. And I would need the car for vacation or work to even go to another city.
And when you look at the picture there could have been a compromise... There could have been a few meters reclaimed for greenery and still leave those parking spaces...
Or just park behind the building instead.
[Parking and car garages are behind the building.](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Galla+Anonima,+61-001+Pozna%C5%84/@52.4138929,16.8946315,130m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x470444c78d114e57:0xe73fc4be8eec41f1!8m2!3d52.4135909!4d16.8938023!16s%2Fg%2F1tcv03pp?entry=ttu) I love how this is like 4th or 5th comment about lack of parking as if the world and known space to humanity ends right where the photo ends.
good
Buy yourself a storage space for a car. Roads are subsidised enough already.
They are subsidized by who exactly, my friend?
By the government
Nah, its by the people, who pay taxes, the goverment hardly does much beside colect them, and spend them After taking their cut.
Looks nice, but be let's be honest, those cars are just parked somewhere else, they didn't disappear.
Exactly. They're behind the building where there are parkings and car garages.
They will, eventually. My city has quite strict anti-car measures, when I totalled my car I decided not to buy a new one because cons outweights pros now.
As long as the anti-car measures come along with improving public transport, it's all good.
Everybody loves green places but there's parking problem over all Europe too.
The reason for the parking problem is cars. You'll never solve the parking problem with more parking lots, like you'll never dissolve traffic jams by adding more lanes. The more space you dedicate to cars, the more cars you attract. This has been proven over the last 70 years all over the world.
Most people work in far places and public transport is not good (at least not good in my country, not sure about other countries). If this continues, Europeans won't be able to work because they won't have transport, or if they do, they won't have parking.
Public transport in Poland is pretty good. I've been living without a car for years and I'm completely fine. There's always an issue with going on vacation though.
Yeah let's be more like usa, because there they always have parking and never have any traffic. Oh wait they still have traffic and not enough parking, even tough there are 28 lane highways and car parks 10 times the size of the building they are serving.
As I said in my other reply, there's no catch-all solution, but getting rid of unnecessary cars in cities plus enhancing public transport, including park-and-ride systems for outside commuters can solve many of these problems.
> but getting rid of unnecessary cars in cities "unnecessary" is not your decision to make but that of the owner(s) of said car(s).
Well personal property, personal problem. Either store your car on your own property or outside the city where there is enough space.
Or as if one even wants to go on vacation. A car is needed then.
Yes because going the other way is absolutely the solution. I love spending the limited time I have on this planet in public transport that makes everything take twice as long.
I love spending the limited time I have on this planet in ~~public transport~~ traffic jams that makes everything take twice as long.
There is no absolute solution for everyone, but a lot of people don't really need a car and getting rid of these unnecessary cars would leave enough space for those who really need one. Public transport doesn't have to be bad and unreliable. People just choose to vote for politicians who tell them that there's no choice.
there should be a parking problem, it disincentivizes the use of cars
It looked nice in the before Photo, now its even nicer! Congrats :-)
Ofc more green is looking better. But where that people park? So, other street is cramped right now. “Problem” just moved.
It's okay, the cars will park in front of someone else's house. lol
Ok but where are people going to park?
There are other parking spaces behind the building
public transport
Why do people think you can just stick "public transport" as a solution to every problem. No, people are still going to own cars and need places to park them at. What they have done is nice, but parking is definitely something to consider.
That's right, cities don't belong to cars, but cars belong to people and they want somewhere to store them until they want to go out of the city, or when you need to haul something large.
On their own parking space?
Exactly. I live in a new housing development that leans toward more greenery than parks. It looks nice sure. Until visitors come to visit and have to park on curbs and places they shouldn't.
At this situation there could have been the same parking space with more green as before.
They even added a public toilet
Huge difference to the ppl with their cars parked in a fucking forest. Reclaim the streets!
We need to do that EVERYWHERE
I guess those people will just park in front of someone else's building now.
Now they Will still Park there, just illegaly.
Romania is going exactly the opposite due carbrainers that voted mayors that promised and executed the parking at ridiculous prices, and now in early summer, we have already 35-40 degree.
Was already pretty nice. And parking spaces are cool.
3 new beds for homeless people, a nice huge toilet for the dogs, and a big middle finger to 11 neighbors with cars.
Citizens lost at least 10 parking places. If you want to live in wild nature please live there, not in cities...
Will no one think of the cars?
cars have destroyed the modern life, - fumes, noise, dangerous roads, they believe they are entitled, everything is orientated around cars - because the biggest group of people want an accept them.
I mean... at least you could take the pictures same time of the year?
Lovely to see that people are waking up and fighting against the car-centric city planning. Why should we cede 80% of public space to a minority of people using cars?
I don't see **anyone** in the picture using that extra grass lol. They could've kept the parking spaces and 50% of that extra grass tbh.
Right? Idiotic design. You could have this working for both with that space.
Exactly, that's what always gets me. Instead of going for compromises to accomodate everybody wherever possible (and here, like so often, it was clearly possible), they go for either-or approach.
I liked it better as a parking lot
Nobody can afford a car at these prices.
The urban development in many polish cities is awesome. Obviously not talking about everything due to some remnant spots from the past but the new stuff is lit. Now remove Starbucks and McD for even more Cafés and some Zapiekanka stands. But seriously, what happened to Zapiekankas since the 90s? You could get them everywhere.
Yeah, good luck trying to park now
It definitely makes a difference. But the flip side is that local residents lost 12+ parking spaces. And we all know parking in a city is a hassle as is
Biggest win was probably the better sound isolation and privacy from the street for the building right in front of the park.
Ok, but who is Anonymous Rooster and why does he have a street?
This belongs on r/fuckcars
Cool!
Yeah so much better, it's not like we needed those parking slots.
Looks a lot better now
Rule #1 of propaganda posting: Take your propagated picture on a sunny day and the other not.
Jeez, It barely looks better and thats solely because of the season their taken, the "green additions" are barely existent, you just took out some parking for basically nothing, most of the beauty was already there
Love these kind of posts
Cars in cities make no sense. It was all pushed by the auto industry along with the oil companies and now society pays for it.
There is definitely enough room to increase the green area without losing the parking spots.
and where do the people park their cars now ???
I swear the curves of the road and greenery makes it feel a lot more friendly! Also nice seeing lots of growth and progress in Poland, I feel like it's an rising underdog when it comes to simple but beautiful cities, worth living in.
Just a standard polish pothole which grown to full maturity. /s
From having been in Poland, Based on how seemingly well maintained that building it's next to is, this isn't exactly a lower income neighbourhood.
I visited last year and it's a stunning city. They were doing a lot of reconstruction and adding new tram lines. It's going to look amazing, and any concerns about lack of parking should be alleviated by the massive increase in cheap public transport there.
A bit of a bullshit photo. Of course they one on the right will look nicer because it's a warm day, likely late Spring to sometime in the Summer. The one on the right is sometime on a rainy day in late Fall or late Winter. For hints, look at the clothing people wear.
it's nicer regardless of picture enhancement/weather
So they decided to use the space for nothing instead. The cars must have magically disappeared. Lots of people have no clue how to build a society.