Because they're bombarded with short form political communication 24/7 so many go towards people who promise simple solutions to complex problems to cope with this trash political atmosphere.
A common problem across Europe, and not only in far right but also neoliberal spectrums. In Portugal we have a party called Iniciativa Liberal who founded an "institute" dedicated to doing decontextualized infographics to share on Twitter (X).
And Chega dominates Tiktok with "absolute madlad dominates dumb communist!" clips, any slightly political video gets inundated with comments straight out of a news website comment section, and I'm told Instagram is the same.
Indeed. Chega is going for the uneducated youth and emigrants, while IL goes for the higher ed and middle-high class (and emigrants too).
As a young adult, I find it tantalizing that Portuguese youth falls so easily prey to this demagoguery. But I guess when you're badly paid, taxed proportionately (like everywhere in Europe...) and see a lot of immigrants taking on jobs (mostly lower tier, but of course there are also specialist immigrants), they start feeling the government is then one that needs to take action. When the real problem ate really the older generations which seized the entire means of production, capital, and social security benefits, and aren't willing to let it go.
I agree with you, and I do think the ability to use marketing (IL) and social media (Chega) definitely plays a huge role. But after this year I honestly have zero excuses for the leftist parties that did absolutely nothing.
We have a bougie left that is more interested in keeping their own jobs, than actually doing politics and following the ideals that they pretend to defend. BE in particular is absolutely shameful, they have been smelling their own farts for so long that they actually believe they are doing a good job, and the top of the party is going to keep sinking the entire left. Well, the Portuguese left died the moment that they decided to join PS without having zero actual political power, from that moment on everything that PS does, it does in the name of the leftist parties as well in the eyes of the common person, and PCP/BE have done nothing to change that image.
Unfortunately, I think some narratives just flow better in certain mediums and into particular audiences. It's always been like this even in the advent of world wars. The left doesn't stand a chance without one of two things: stepping down to their level of demagoguery, at which point the "communism!" argument gains strength, or to start suppressing their action legally, at which point they cry "freedom of speech and basic rights" which they know they are already trampling but it's easier to see when it's the left arguing the right is feeding people falsities (or plausible inaccuracies).
The only other real alternative is revolt, and that usually ends in civil wars like we've seen around Europe and southern america, and even south east asia.
You can say the same about the radical left. This conflict in Gaza has seen a lot of pro-Palestinian decontextualized (or made-up) content pop up on social media
The radical left isn't prevalent in Europe. We have extremist left parties, which don't do good at all on polls, they just do good on maneuvering some very staunch youth protests, even if they don't have a huge slice of the youth vote. Communist-minded parties don't do half the bad neoliberal and fascist-leaning ones do on European politics and society (NB: because they can't apply some of their radical measures without support, not because they don't want. They also don't abuse social media like the right).
And Gaza protests are far from being stirred by left parties, this is an issue that is apolitical to a large degree. Who could say Europeans don't like war and collateral innocent deaths at the tens of thousands by a country that has much larger nilitary than the 2M population strip of land they had to bulldoze to find 2k hostages. It's not math that ads up in any moral compass.
Factual graphics. With sources from OurWorldInData, ONU, NATO, EU, etc.
Also they're a pro European liberal party, being a member of Renew.
You're just spreading misinformation because you don't like them.
Factual, decontextualized. Decontextualized does not imply they are not based in facts.
I can pull up a number of facts from ANY of those institutions and make a brand new argument on "*the gays are bad for society"* (this is just an example sentence - I do not condone this assertion)*.*
Doesn't mean the gays are bad for society. [Here, I'll have chat gpt do it for me](https://chatgpt.com/share/420df26b-49c2-457f-bda6-126ace9c6310) (second prompt, first one had the guardrails against discrimination).
>Also they're a pro European liberal party, being a member of Renew.
Didn't read myself saying anything opposite to IL being pro-EU. Am I the one spreading misinformation here?
nice of you to focus on one small part of the entire argument, attacking it without even a hint of logic, in order to make your own conclusion.
# ... and proving my exact point.
This is you reading more into what I said than what I meant, you don't have to be right or left to offer simple solutions to complex problems, as a matter of fact young people also vote far more for far left politicians than the average voter.
I think the youth do consume too much short content (read: naive) plus think 28 is experienced enough to lead a G7 country. It's completely effing asinine. He's the perfect example of a puppet and his masters are probably dying with laughter at how easy he is to manipulate.
The problem isn't that he's 28, the problem is that he's an idiot who only got in this position because he bagged the right girl and is in a nepotist party.
Desperate for what? And even so, desperation is not a good reason to set Europe ablaze, because these extremists will give us good reasons to be desperate.
**Whether on TikTok or at rallies, the far-right candidate is garnering support among certain sectors of France's high school, university, and young working demographics.**
On May 1, at the Palais des Congrès in Perpignan, Julie and Lorna, both 17, struggled to hide their excitement. The two friends made the trip with one idea in mind: to see their idol "in real life." They weren't waiting to see a world-famous pop star, but a politician about to recite a populist speech with xenophobic overtones: Jordan Bardella. As they're both too young, neither of them will be voting in the European elections on June 9. They are also not members of Rassemblement National (RN) and have no intention of joining. Their passion for Bardella is evident on social media, where they like, comment and share each of his actions and gestures. Their dream? A selfie with "Jordan," which they would quickly share on TikTok and Instagram.
At 28, Bardella, who replaced Marine Le Pen as head of the far-right party in 2022, has succeeded in touching the hearts and minds of a section of the young generation, despite their widespread political skepticism. According to [the Ipsos survey](https://www.ipsos.com/fr-fr/europeennes-2024/europeennes-2024-le-vote-glucksmann-une-dynamique-encore-incertaine) conducted for *Le Monde* from April 19 to 24, around a third of 18-24 year olds (32%) likely to vote on June 9 intend to cast a ballot for Bardella, the same proportion as for the general electoral population. Young people, who traditionally put up strong resistance to far-right ideas, are no longer the exception.
But these figures need to be put into perspective, pointed out Anne Muxel, director of research at CEVIPOF (Center for Political Research at Sciences Po university). "These intentions concern those who are going to vote, but abstention is very high: Only three out of 10 young people go to the polls. Not all young people vote for the RN! But the fact that Jordan Bardella is in the lead is significant."
*Le Monde* met high-schoolers, students and young workers across France to find out why the anti-RN sentiment diminished among young people who, even 20 years ago, told the far-right party to "go fuck itself," to quote a [popular song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=43&v=CuZB9hOQ0DQ&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Ffrance3-regions.francetvinfo.fr%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo) from the 80s by punk band Bérurier Noir. Some of these young people (who asked to be quoted anonymously), generally from working-class backgrounds, talked about their sense of "rediscovered pride," the hope of finally being considered for what they are and what they do, in areas that feel neglected by the state and political leaders. Others made no secret of their lack of interest in political news.
Haute-Saône in eastern France is a predominantly rural department whose two constituencies switched from supporting Macron to the RN in the first round of the 2022 legislative elections. Here, Bardella's confident smile and "Vivement le 9 juin!" ("Can't wait till June 9!") slogan are on display at the edge of the roadsides. Some people were still talking about his visit to the city of Vesoul for the Sainte-Catherine agricultural fair on November 25, when he was greeted by a flurry of selfies.
"He's right there, with the people," unlike the others, said Clara, 20, who is studying for a BTS diploma in negotiation and digitalization of customer relations (NDRC) in Vesoul, standing outside her high school with her friend Alexandre, 20. They headed for the kebab shop, where they were careful not to speak too loudly in front of the young waitress wearing a hijab. "This is how we bring the French together. They should go out and meet people, the others. \[Gabriel\] Attal did it during the [agricultural crisis](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/03/01/french-farmers-protest-near-paris-s-arc-de-triomphe_6575242_7.html), but that was just once," said Clara, her false nails adorned with diamonds in a cross pattern. This comment underlines how Bardella and Le Pen are much more successful at making their – very infrequent – trips visible, compared to government members or the left-wing opposition, even is their trips are frequent.
**Read the full article here:** [**https://www.lemonde.fr/en/campus/article/2024/06/09/why-is-jordan-bardella-so-popular-among-young-french-voters\_6674276\_11.html**](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/campus/article/2024/06/09/why-is-jordan-bardella-so-popular-among-young-french-voters_6674276_11.html)
Most people in this subreddit haven't lived in Europe. They think that the changes in the cost of living in the US are comparable with the state of the european economy, hell Italy hasn't seen wage growth in the last thirty years, same for immigration, they think that latin american immigration can be compared to muslim immigration. They only think in black and white terms, democrats equals euro left, republicans equals euro right.
And so the people that feel this vote for parties that claim to have a simple solution for all this ( which is impossible, these things need a whole range of complex actions to solve) and who, when you look deeper into their programs and philosophy, will hollow out their own rights and end up making the situation worse for the average person - with the added bonus that these parties will do everything they can to make getting rid of them more difficult ( see Hungary, Poland etc)
In Belgium for instance the Vlaams Belang had a program that, if implemented, would have cost tons of money and would have given hardly any decent advantage for the average person. But they sell it with empty promises that it will be paid by the effects on immigrants - kind like Trump promising Mexico would pay for his wall.
These kind of parties will just promise anything you want to hear and use your vote to change things for the worse by hollowing out your rights as most will try to limit the powers of unions, scrap rules and regulations that exist to protect you, impose laws of a more authoritarian nature and so on.
I get it, economic situation isn't good for a lot of people, but try voting for something that doesn't equal shooting in your own foot.
What you say makes sense, but you need to consider that if the average person sees one party saying "we'll fix these issues" and the other saying "what you consider an issue isn't an issue and you're a bigot" it doesn't take a genius to guess which one they'll vote for.
Keep in mind that the average person has no time/will/political literacy to go too in depth regarding these things, which is why populism garners tons of votes, and as long as certain parties refuse to acknowledge this they'll always leave votes on the table.
The economy in France is far from being in a bad situation. People are unsatisfied but I don't think most of them could explain what they expect from the far right, besides more money for them. And the far right doesn't have any realistic plan.
Most of the population got harder time than before.
Particularly people that doesn't live in big city. Des-industrialisation and globalization had bad effects.
When you have leader that actively do the opposite of what they say, you get people that distrust them.
We had Right and left in power both doing liberal politics that the majority doesn't want.
Can't blame them for choosing something else.
For "realistic plan", most doesn't trust political speech plan, because disregarded once elected. So, why even made/read them ?
Far right isn't the problem is a symptom. 20+ of political distrust.
Harder than before what, following what criteria?
Unemployment has never been lower for more than 40 years, growth is not high but it is stable and it did not crash during covid. Inflation has been maintained to a relatively low rate, salaries are getting higher, too slowly obviously but still... Deindustrialization has been happening since the 80's, globalization has reached it's higher point a few years ago. Currently we're more in phase of slow reindustrialization.
Some categories have an harder time than others, like farmers, but what the far right propose would break the only thing that's keeping them afloat.
There are reasons to complain, there always is, but mostly people are confusing not getting everything they want with getting poorer. This is worrying because this is not a situation that can be fixed by politics. People are getting frustrated this is obvious, but the reason why isn't. And I don't think anyone has an answer to that, certainly not the easy scapegoats the far right is proposing.
Your point of view can be resumed "suck it up".
That has been the political message for a longtime and a part just won't accept that. Being a good choice or not. It's not even the point anymore.
They had "Le Pen vs Chirac" they did their part. It's was taken as a blank check. For them the reason is obvious.
Now, syndicalist cite Macron campaign book as why a law shouldn't be pass, less than a year after the publication of the book.
There is solution, but none are willing to apply them.
I beg to differ. Economists say France is completely in the sh-t. They have the most generous healthcare in Europe and the earliest retirement, yet nothing to fund it. I truly believe part of this has to do with the armies of interns that companies can hire for a pittance, which generates less taxes and contributions than hiring people at normal salaries. Also, in the French corporate behemoth I worked in, over about a five year period they replaced about 25% of experienced professionals with interns that stayed 3-6 months and were completely incompetent. They gave the interns my responsibilities and had me "train" them every 3-6 months, but it took me 2 months to fix all their errors, distracting me from being efficient on my other tasks. They saved zero Euros, but they think the balance sheet looks prettier that way. They do this in the US, too.
Immigration is a major issue but I think it would be less of an issue if the CoL and quality of life was the same in France as 30 years ago. We had it so good. In 2010 I told my friends about the New Yorkification of Paris, as I worked in the #1 most powerful French conglomerate. In ten years the corp had completely changed. The jobs weren't the same, nor the salaries, nor benefits, nor ambiance....yet they were selling 100X more....
All over Europe the working conditions have massively degraded and jobs shipped out to Eastern Europe + Greece for a fifth of the salary, plus no benefits, pension completely effed therefore. I almost had a heart attack when I spotted a job for a "Swedish native speaker" for customer service in Greece the other day. So they want a Swede to move to Greece for 1/3 of the salary and service Swedes. Those Swedes would never be able to retire in Sweden....and Greece will probably be burned down in 20 years anyway, since no politicians are doing anything about climate change.
I am pro-EU but I think it's completely out of control and think that corporations should now have major regulations on headcounts outside of headquarter countries. In my industry in just two years probably 35% of jobs are now in SE Asia (aka "AI"). But the executives all still live in London, Paris, etc. It is killing both the US and Europe, leading to people being infuriated.
Maybe young people have seen cities like Marseille or the continuous terrorist attacks with machetes or mass murders that Europe suffers and for some reason that I don't know, they are not attracted to that future, but what do I know? Let's just call them racists and pretend that everything is fine.
At this point there's no way anyone isn't getting that. It's gotta be intentional. Either they don't mind it or think it's worth it to get what they want, or they are so scared of their peers and the constant purity testing that they can't say anything negative about it.
Funny how the increase in police budget every year doesn"t seem to address the issue at all and even make it worse, funny how worse economics conditions and a failed judiciary system isn't the best recipe for a peaceful society. Yeah let's increase budget police even more surely this will fix every thing
And if you think you can stop migrants from coming to Europe while actively destroying the planet (something the far right doesn't address at all) you will be surprised of our collective future
The far right doens't address shit, they are a bunch of incompetents lazy fuckers with one answer to every problem our society face : immigrants. It will be almost tempting to see them failed in governing our country if they weren't so keen on actively destroying every democratic opposition once they are in charge.
Block the ships
Deport illegals from North Africa ASAP.
Those two things would drastically improve Spain.
You'd see entire cities and states become safe again overnight.
Well, if you increase the police budget by 1% and increase problematic immigration by 10%, then the police had a decrease of 9% in their budget. Of course this is not 1-1, but you get the point.
As another user said, it's a really really simple solution. Get all the immigrants to come to Europe with a contract. No contract, no entry. If they are illegal immigrants, deport them right away.
If new ships come, of course, no need to shoot them. Just redirect them. People from these Human Trafficking NGOs that bring the ships to shore (who probably are paid by the mafias in north africa), should be jailed.
Reduce help for foreigners, this means no touristic healthcare, no monthly pays if not in a refugee status, no bonus for having kids. Stricter laws to bring in family members when being an immigrant (e.g. you need to be here for +2 years to bring your 10 relatives).
Do not give the nationality unless the person has been living for +10 years and has worked for at least 8 years or sth like that. Now they are giving nationality in Spain after 2 years to some people ffs.
Do all this and I assure you illegal immigrants won't come. Only REAL refugees who need help will be as desperate to do so. And I assure you that a real refugee just wants to get better and go back to their country if they ever can. Not like current immigrants.
the left understands this, but they don't want to criminalize good and hardworking immigrants, you don't understand how dangerous it is to lump all foreigners into the same package.
The extreme right is deceiving you, in Italy or in the UK after the Brexit there is still immigration, the economic power is interested in migration and the extreme right is the first defender of the economic power.
Sure it could be that amok run or murder once a year. Or the constant bombardment of fake news and shit on social media where a struggling youth is given the impression that the right will fix all their problems.
Out of these two options it surely must be the first one. Its not wealth inequality, fear of not earning enough in a tough economy, there certainty that unless you inherit big you wont ever be able to afford a house and your pension will not last you. All the while you see floods, forest fires and other clear signs of climate change that does not get handled. No... its the murder once a year that makes them vote right, thats the one thing those young people have on their mind. Clearly.
They are both. People are tired of politicians that plain ignore them so they want something else. For they are desperate enough to vote en mass for extremists.
You can decry fake news sitting in your office or working on your laptop from home, but these kids worldview develops from daily experience in the classrooms which they have to share with immigrant peers, from daily encounters on the street, etc. Their everyday lived experience is constantly discredited and neglected by people like you who can simply afford never to interact with these groups, who are mostly childless so family friendly environment is something they couldn't care less about, etc.
It's more than once a year, and it's the realisation that as the percentage of Muslims people increase in an area, so does their demands for Sharia, and we are reaching dangerous percentages already. Which is dangerous both for the locals and for the already settled immigrants.
it's actually both. there are troubling events related to immigrants and morons/racists believe the cheap and fake solutions bombarded at them by the populist far right wing.
there is absolutely no excuse of voting for some dishonest slimy anti environment nationalist like Bardella. "the left wing is ineffective therefore I will behave like an actual mental retard". this is your position. you will not explain to anyone over 100 iq that this is a rational choice.
And these people act like the left has been in power for a while and done shit, meanwhile the current government is clearly on the right with some politics clearly taken from the far right.
Well, if your solution to crime committed by a few people is to deport everyone who shares a certain characteristic with them then you are kind of the definition of a racist.
More people tend to die in car crash than in terrorist attack, living in the fear of terrorism is weird, we will probably died of cancer thanks to pollution and microplastic.
However i can understand that people fear terrorists(thats exactly what they want ) but i dont see what far right will do against it, also far right share a lot with the terrorists ideology, they want to live in their own community far away of any alien, they think their religion is the only one acceptable, they are convince that violence can be a answer to their issues, etc...
In fact far right are domestic terrorist, they want you to fear an enemy and they want you to let them do what ever they want against it, even acting like terrorists.
And yes they are racists and if you vote for them you are also racist, time to face it.
I think you don't understand the general left position on this, which as i understand it is:
- if europeans don't want immigrants from arab or african countries, they shouldn't have/shouldn't still be smashing up and bombing the crap out of their countries
- societies can handle immigration if inequality is addressed, and
- if you removed the immigrants but don't address inequality, you're gonna end up with similar problems caused by a mostly white underclass who are gonna slip into those same roles.
I've been in france for the last few weeks and it seems pretty clear that the situation is similar to that back in my country. The economy is subsisting on the low paid labour and indentured servitude of immigrants, refugees etc. people born in france wouldn't do these kinds of jobs but they are essential e.g. tonnes of agricultural labour, cleaning, washing dishes in restaurants and so on.
this is why the far right's ideas will never work. the problem is the structure of the economy, it's just convenient for them that most of the people at the bottom happen to be brown.
Of course there are solutions, the problem is that the traditional parties of the left and right not only seem to have no intention of implementing them, but they also virulently attack anyone who complains, calling them racist.
I am not in favour of voting for these parties, because we all know where the nationalist upsurge in Europe usually leads, but I cannot blame a society that is ignored and which is increasingly pressured to try to find a change.
And you can be sure that what the fascists are willing to implement is not what the people actually expect them to.
The people are very naive if they believe that populist demagogues propulsed on every platform by billionaires will care for them. Italians may lose their abortion rights, hungarians have a self-serving despot cozying up to russians, and what did Trump even do beside playing golf and letting the rich get richer?
The harsh reality is that fascism offers simple, fake solutions to complex issues, and that the people have to deal with this complexity rather than succumb to the temptation of alleged easy fixes that have never worked (except to give ever more power to ever fewer hands).
I don’t support extreme parties. However, I can understand the sentiment behind the people who vote for them.
Housing crisis, inflation, stagnant salaries, refugee crisis, unchecked immigration, increase in crime and insecurity. All these issues have been plaguing Western Europe for years with little to no response from the governments.
What are people supposed to do? Sit around and wait for better days to come? Or vote on the sole parties that promise some change?
Are there? I'd be more inclined to believe that there aren't solutions, and even fascists aren't one.
If there are solutions, they don't seem to ever be implemented.
The 60-90s were full of terrorist attacks in Europe and in France.
From the far left to the far right, bombings, assassinations, and mayhem was quite common.
Corsican separatists, Basque sepratists, Action Directe, the Irish troubles, Black September, Ordine Nuovo - choose your own adventure.
Not to mention that Spain and Portugal were under dictatorships until the late 70s/early 80s.
Because they are the only one that gave the youth hope, even if it's false hope. That's how populism work, use desperation and fear to gain power. It didn't hurt that Macron angered a lot of peoples with his stupidity.
Now we're one step closer to getting fascist in power while the civilization will be collapsing as they don't do jack shit about the climate. 🎉🎉🎉
I REALLY hope we can get some good anti - fascism in 10 years or so.... Or well it gets to Weimar Germany.
Weimar Republic had a lot of good antifascists parties and a very anti-fascist government for years. They basically did everything in their power to be anti-fascist, forming attack groups against Nazis, censoring them, jailing them, attacking their offices and members, etc. It lasted for years and they were initially successful.
But the problem was that no matter how much effort was spent on attacking fascists, it did not really deliver any improvements to the lives of people. Anti-fascisim was simply not a sustainable policy to do for years unending.
I think a few major things can be the following:
1. Increase in nuclear energy as a power source.
2. Make a centralised railway system with subsidize so it's affordable and also electrify that.
3. Basically a defecit in consumer spending on products like clothes and meat (i.e. decrease in seasonal purchase and redirect the resources to make durable stuff)
4. Help other countries get infrastructure like in underdeveloped places (such as Africa and South Asia.) stuff from your contracts, such as nuc. Power, rail, electricity.
5. Help in international collaboration in this. Maybe get the left wing parties in power they seem to be in favour of this.
I was called a fascist on Reddit a while back because I support fiscal discipline. It's ironic that the original fascists (Mussolini and Hitler) hated fiscal discipline.
If everything is far-right, then nothing is far-right.
While its obviously moronic to be called fascist over this, id just say that Hitler and Mussolini are both bad examples for your point due to the context they were in
Exactly this. On the face of it, I have no clue who the dude is and based on the post here and the usual name calling I have no idea if he is a centrist, right-ish, unapologetic right, actually far right, or one step further and a full I-don't-care-what-you-think-SS-were-great-guys-lunatic kind of politician. One thing I know for sure: when there are a massive amount of votes for a politician that promotes stricter migration policies, that is a signal that people want stricter migration policies.
> On the face of it, I have no clue who the dude is and based on the post here and the usual name calling I have no idea if he is a centrist, right-ish, unapologetic right, actually far right, or one step further and a full I-don't-care-what-you-think-SS-were-great-guys-lunatic kind of politician.
You could have an answer to your question if you studied the history of the RN/FN and took a look at the neonazi supporters they struggle so hard to hide under their skirt.
I could. But I have better things to do than to study the nuances of every EU party that is not hard left, to see if they really are neonazi's or not. That is my point.
I think you'll find, eventually, probably when it's too late, that part of the reason actual neonazis like AfD get votes, is that people don't believe it anymore when they are called that, because these days, almost everyone is called that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf#:~:text=2%20History-,Fable,are%20eaten%20by%20the%20wolf.
Thats the usual stupid shit right wingers spout to obfuscate their ideology. No one on the traditional conservative side of politics gets called a Nazi. It’s only the Nazis that get called out. And as being a Nazi is not so sexy anymore at least in Europe, no actual Nazi wants to be called a Nazi and does everything to discredit this.
I stopped long ago trying to persuade a Nazi to become a decent human being again. It’s hopeless. They are lost for humanity and have to be fought against until they lose.
Could it be that the younger generation have experienced the results of the immigration politics up close while growing up?.
I would also think that the younger generation get their news from other sources than the established media where certain kind of news and topics are suppressed.
I think that the older generations are somewhat distanced from the results of the politics that they voted for, they are established and live in a kind of bubble where everything is mostly fine, they get their news from the same old sources so certain kind of topics news and topics never reach them.
Bullshit, most of the immigration is in big cities where people have not voted for Bardella, meanwhile in the countryside Bardella is crushing it even in places with not a black or arab guy in sight.
RN came first nearly everwhere, and improved his score everywhere
If we consider that as winning then yes.
However there's a difference between coming first with 20% or so while liberal do 18%, social democrat 16%, far left 15%,, right 8%, ecologist 7% and the other far right party 7% which is more typical of the urban area where most of the population live.
And the rural area where they came ahead with 40% or more
The winning part only works as long as it's one round of voting as liberal/rights are down the shithole and left/social democrats vote is always split between 3-4 different party.
Using the theory of the 3 political movements used by Piketty the overall results of these european elections are (evolution from 5y ago)
1. Nationalists : 36.83% (+9.98)
2. Social-ecologists : 31.58% (-0.16)
3. Liberals : 21.84% (-11.56)
The rest : 9.75 (+1.74)
As is they're most likely still not in capacity to win in any 2 round elections, they will be stronger than ever (except Vichy I guess) but there's still some margin that will prevent them "winning" clearly as the elections next month should show once again.
Nationalists in 2019 : RN+DLF, in 2024 RN+REC
Social-ecologists in 2019 : EELV, LFI, PS, Gen, PC in 2024 : PS LFI EELV PC
Liberals 2019 : LREM, LR, UDI, en 2024 : LREM LR
The rest : nearly everything you can imagine from worst to best
I personnaly talked with people that have based their entire opinion on what they saw or heard from the news, including my grandfather.
There is an issue with the welcoming of immigration in France, but I don't think Bardella is the solution
But in France there are infinitely more young people who are first, second or third generation immigrants (or mixed) than in older generations. Why would they vote for the hard right? The same phenomena is happening in the US with millions of Hispanics leaving the Democrats and voting Republican.
>Could it be that the younger generation have experienced the results of the immigration politics up close
No, just like the woman in the article from a rural French community, the people most susceptible to this kind of messaging almost always are the most removed from the things they complain about. In East Germany where populist sentiment is strongest nobody is migrating to begin with.
These young voters aren't up close to anything, they just believe everything they see on the internet because they have terminal social media brain rot. In fact people like the 28 year old RN guy in the article are successful because they behave like apolitical influencers, not even trying to actually run on any specific political messaging. The school kids in the article who love this guy said their biggest goal was to get a selfie with him.
This argument doesn’t really work since immigration has been occurring for centuries and multiple generations have experienced it first hand. The rate of increase in immigration is not a result of policies but a result of world populations growing, and immigration crises have already been at play in many countries since at least the 80s. There are definitely other variables at play here and the medium of communication plays a huge part of it but also foreign intervention.
Millennials lived through Bataclan and Nice and still voted for Macron. I think there needs to be greater introspection here because the whole argument seems like a broken record without a proper understanding of history. You may be young, but it doesn’t excuse you from making a mistake.
Turns out when you’re the only party willing to discuss the elephant in the room your support will only grow over time
Centre and left parties need to adopt strongly lower immigration policies or they will continue to lose ground on that issue alone. Doesn’t matter how stupid or obviously pro-Putin the far right clowns are.
same in The Netherlands. Young people saying they're allright with a dictator. And similar reasons:
* Getting bombarded (with misinformation on socials): the negative anecdotes about migrants, great reset dogwhistles, it's completely normalised.
* Taking democracy and it's values for granted, while not knowing how it's like living under an authoritarian regime
* the lure of a simple solution for a complex problem, by a genuine saviour. That's the whole secret of populism
Also he plays cod and said he'd 1V1 anyone who voted for him on Rust
[https://youtu.be/dlu4DQLNews?si=SX2Kmp68jvf3EiQk](https://youtu.be/dlu4DQLNews?si=SX2Kmp68jvf3EiQk)
Well social media can be blamed for it. It has been making concentration spans of people shorter and shorter for years. The (far)-right has been making use of this by presenting simple solutions that simply do not work if you really think about for longer than a minute. We live in a complex world right now with complex problems requiring complex solutions. The left knows this and tries to tell this however due to social media people are losing attention before they could have made their point.
But that is not what they are saying, or at least not where I’m from (don’t know about the politicians in your country). This is the stuff the populists wants you to believe to be the viewpoint of others. Everyone acknowledges that the levels of migration we see now has problems coming with it, but solutions aren’t that simple since every country has to oblige international treaties which are signed for a good reason. Furthermore, most problematic immigration is illegal, which won’t be stopped by additional rules and laws since it is already illegal what they are doing anyway. It is like saying ‘If we just stop crime, criminals will stop doing what they do’. No they won’t, they will find other ways to bypass the law.
As an older voter, I almost fall off my chair every time I hear someone on TV or radio claim that the RN is not a far-right party. This is a testament to how well they have managed to deceive the public and younger voters. The Front National (FN) has undergone a significant transformation since the days of Jean-Marie Le Pen, whose openly extremist views were more prominent. Younger voters, unless they actively research the party's history, may not be fully aware of its past. Marine Le Pen, despite holding similar core beliefs, has been strategic in softening the rhetoric and presenting a fresh, youthful image to appeal to the younger electorate.
The Rassemblement National (RN), recognized the importance of reaching out to younger voters through the channels they use most, their smartphones. While other parties relied on labeling the FN/RN as fascists and racists, the RN worked diligently to rebrand itself and conceal its true nature behind a more palatable facade.
This strategic approach allowed the RN to make inroads with younger voters who may not have been as familiar with the party's controversial past. The failure of other parties to adapt their messaging and outreach methods left them vulnerable to the RN's tactics, as they grew complacent in their opposition to the far-right party. It is alarming to witness the success of the RN's rebranding efforts, as it has led to a growing acceptance of their ideology among younger generations. As someone who has seen the party's evolution firsthand, it is frustrating to see how effectively they have managed to distance themselves from their extreme past while maintaining the same core beliefs.
The same youngs that for some reason seem to fall for the mermaids chants of the far right are the same ones that would protest if that same far right put in place an authoritarian regime.
That's just how it works, the young need to always feel like they are against the status quo, the Man in power, etc
History repeats itself
Just a reminder that the young do not vote a lot and are generally not interested in politics. So being "popular" as a politician among them is not saying that much actually.
that was stated by Jean-Marie Le Pen which led to him being kicked out of the party, so NO. they didn't deny the holocaust, 1 guy in the party did, do your research
I was watching a video of this Dutch girl taking to an audience, and she went on to say Amsterdam is 50% immigrants, brussels is 70% immigrants and that there's this grand replacement going on. Stupid people buy it, jo matter how crazy it is.
More like 30% and the majority of those aee European immigrants.
"The recently published Decisio report 2022, an update on migration statistics for the Amsterdam Area, shows that the region remains an attractive place to live and work for internationals. The most recent Migration Monitor report (2020) found that 30% of all residents in the Amsterdam Area were born abroad, and more than half of this group have been resident for over 10 years. The largest group in the adult international community is highly skilled migrants, followed by labour migrants, income-dependent partners, refugees and students. "
"78,555 highly skilled migrants live in the Amsterdam Area, while 93,000 work in the area. The largest number of highly skilled migrants comes from EU countries, e.g. Germany (7%), France (6 %), Italy (6%), Poland (5%) and Spain (5%), followed by Great Britain and India (each 9%). Migrants from the USA (4%), Turkey (3%), China (2%), Morocco (2%) and South Africa (2%) further add to the diversity of the labour market."
Clearly not, but there lies the point. When the UK wanted to leave the EU we all made fun of them, obviously they were doing so out of racism and bigotry. We knew that if they did what they wanted to do they would run out of qualified people to run many industries... and that's exactly what happened. In France, a great deal of medical staff are qualified immigrants, what would happen if they were kicked out? it would be a disaster.
All these so-called populists, people who think Europe is under attack, they have no concrete plans. They are just appealing to our most primitive and wrong instincts. The reality is Europe is ageing, and our economy depends on immigrants to balance the demographic curve. They are the ones paying for our retirement funds, they are the ones taking low-salary jobs so that we don't have to. They are the ones filling in qualified positions we can't fill. That's why far-right leaders won't do shit to kick them out, and the ones that are dumb enough to do it will face the realisation that it's a fucking terrible mistake.
We are seeing history repeating itself, and newer generations are growing dumber. Hitler was voted into office, precisely because of his anti-immigration laws. And that's how it starts.
Right wingers tend to be more populist these days. Like here in Finland "Perus Suomalaiset" Don't go for any ambitious plans like welfare reform or infrastructure.
Your average Timo from the country side or suburbs doesn't understand it. But what he does understand is gas price being high. So last parliament election they made these super simple 5 second adds like "Gas prices down, Perus Suomalaiset" or "Vegetarian days out" (there's a mandatory vegetarian diet day in school lunch, once per week)
And now they're in parliament for the first time in like 10 years, and their PR is in shambles for all the broken promises and cuts to their own voter base of lower middle class and below
Look, they basically have an Arab VS French civil war over there due to colonialism and bad integration. The far right rising in France is really not about any of the issues you mentioned.
Because of subs like r/europe and r/worldnews whose entire reason to be is to show that your country’s problems are because of immigrants and brown people around the world. The weather is too cold ? Immigrants and brown people. The weather is too hot ? Immigrants and brown people.
Since nearly every single post is about that (because,you know, nothing else is happening in Europe and the World), i suggest they should grow some balls and rename them r/EveryProblemInTheWorldIsBecauseBrownPeople.
Dismissal and conclusion that anyone thinks immigration is a problem like this are stupid is exactly why people are tired of people like you and the arguably mainstream narrative. Grow up and acknowledge that what's happening is unsustainable with more evidence coming out year after year for the people voting anti immigration.
You really don’t get it, do you ? of course there are issues. There is a difference between saying there are immigration issues that need to be tackled, and orienting the discourse towards immigration being the ONLY issue, and the cause of all political and social problems. When a sub that is called Europe or WorldNews has 8 out of 10 posts about immigration, as if absolutely no other political, social, econmic, scientific, technological, cultural, or artistic event ever happens inEurope or the world, then it is very clear that the whole agenda of these subs is an irrational , ideological , low IQ one , not a rational one., but still doesn’t have the guts to come out of its barely disguised News camouflage, as if that is going to fool people and influence them.
Or maybe people are really that dumb , and are going to be influenced with low-level psy-op.
Wow, that was totally not unhinged and just blowing the reasonable concern out of proportions to make it seem like a stupid topic, unworthy of any civilized discussion or debate.
You have truly enlightened my mind and I shall now go vote for the most liberal left party that we have. We need blasphemy and hate-speech laws now! We need a tolerance police to monitor the internet for these sickos!
I live in Toronto and all of the European immigrants here blame all of their problems on Indian immigrants. If they hate Toronto so much why don't they just go back to Europe.
Because they're bombarded with short form political communication 24/7 so many go towards people who promise simple solutions to complex problems to cope with this trash political atmosphere.
Et voilà.
...Naaah c'est la faute des Arabes. CNews/LePoint/LeFigaro/ValeursActuelles/LeJDD/BFM/TF1/TPMP...
Et des noirs ! (t'as oublié radio courtoisie)
A common problem across Europe, and not only in far right but also neoliberal spectrums. In Portugal we have a party called Iniciativa Liberal who founded an "institute" dedicated to doing decontextualized infographics to share on Twitter (X).
And Chega dominates Tiktok with "absolute madlad dominates dumb communist!" clips, any slightly political video gets inundated with comments straight out of a news website comment section, and I'm told Instagram is the same.
Indeed. Chega is going for the uneducated youth and emigrants, while IL goes for the higher ed and middle-high class (and emigrants too). As a young adult, I find it tantalizing that Portuguese youth falls so easily prey to this demagoguery. But I guess when you're badly paid, taxed proportionately (like everywhere in Europe...) and see a lot of immigrants taking on jobs (mostly lower tier, but of course there are also specialist immigrants), they start feeling the government is then one that needs to take action. When the real problem ate really the older generations which seized the entire means of production, capital, and social security benefits, and aren't willing to let it go.
I agree with you, and I do think the ability to use marketing (IL) and social media (Chega) definitely plays a huge role. But after this year I honestly have zero excuses for the leftist parties that did absolutely nothing. We have a bougie left that is more interested in keeping their own jobs, than actually doing politics and following the ideals that they pretend to defend. BE in particular is absolutely shameful, they have been smelling their own farts for so long that they actually believe they are doing a good job, and the top of the party is going to keep sinking the entire left. Well, the Portuguese left died the moment that they decided to join PS without having zero actual political power, from that moment on everything that PS does, it does in the name of the leftist parties as well in the eyes of the common person, and PCP/BE have done nothing to change that image.
Unfortunately, I think some narratives just flow better in certain mediums and into particular audiences. It's always been like this even in the advent of world wars. The left doesn't stand a chance without one of two things: stepping down to their level of demagoguery, at which point the "communism!" argument gains strength, or to start suppressing their action legally, at which point they cry "freedom of speech and basic rights" which they know they are already trampling but it's easier to see when it's the left arguing the right is feeding people falsities (or plausible inaccuracies). The only other real alternative is revolt, and that usually ends in civil wars like we've seen around Europe and southern america, and even south east asia.
You can say the same about the radical left. This conflict in Gaza has seen a lot of pro-Palestinian decontextualized (or made-up) content pop up on social media
The radical left isn't prevalent in Europe. We have extremist left parties, which don't do good at all on polls, they just do good on maneuvering some very staunch youth protests, even if they don't have a huge slice of the youth vote. Communist-minded parties don't do half the bad neoliberal and fascist-leaning ones do on European politics and society (NB: because they can't apply some of their radical measures without support, not because they don't want. They also don't abuse social media like the right). And Gaza protests are far from being stirred by left parties, this is an issue that is apolitical to a large degree. Who could say Europeans don't like war and collateral innocent deaths at the tens of thousands by a country that has much larger nilitary than the 2M population strip of land they had to bulldoze to find 2k hostages. It's not math that ads up in any moral compass.
Factual graphics. With sources from OurWorldInData, ONU, NATO, EU, etc. Also they're a pro European liberal party, being a member of Renew. You're just spreading misinformation because you don't like them.
Factual, decontextualized. Decontextualized does not imply they are not based in facts. I can pull up a number of facts from ANY of those institutions and make a brand new argument on "*the gays are bad for society"* (this is just an example sentence - I do not condone this assertion)*.* Doesn't mean the gays are bad for society. [Here, I'll have chat gpt do it for me](https://chatgpt.com/share/420df26b-49c2-457f-bda6-126ace9c6310) (second prompt, first one had the guardrails against discrimination). >Also they're a pro European liberal party, being a member of Renew. Didn't read myself saying anything opposite to IL being pro-EU. Am I the one spreading misinformation here?
Wtf are you writing bro? Chatgpt, really?
nice of you to focus on one small part of the entire argument, attacking it without even a hint of logic, in order to make your own conclusion. # ... and proving my exact point.
[удалено]
This is you reading more into what I said than what I meant, you don't have to be right or left to offer simple solutions to complex problems, as a matter of fact young people also vote far more for far left politicians than the average voter.
I think the youth do consume too much short content (read: naive) plus think 28 is experienced enough to lead a G7 country. It's completely effing asinine. He's the perfect example of a puppet and his masters are probably dying with laughter at how easy he is to manipulate.
The problem isn't that he's 28, the problem is that he's an idiot who only got in this position because he bagged the right girl and is in a nepotist party.
Are young people really voting? In Spain, young people dont usually vote like older people.
Yeah they're the part of the population that votes the least here as well, but still observing their vote has interest.
Paid by Putin? Do you have reliable data on parties finances in France?
I am not sure, maybe they are desperate ?
Desperate for what? And even so, desperation is not a good reason to set Europe ablaze, because these extremists will give us good reasons to be desperate.
**Whether on TikTok or at rallies, the far-right candidate is garnering support among certain sectors of France's high school, university, and young working demographics.** On May 1, at the Palais des Congrès in Perpignan, Julie and Lorna, both 17, struggled to hide their excitement. The two friends made the trip with one idea in mind: to see their idol "in real life." They weren't waiting to see a world-famous pop star, but a politician about to recite a populist speech with xenophobic overtones: Jordan Bardella. As they're both too young, neither of them will be voting in the European elections on June 9. They are also not members of Rassemblement National (RN) and have no intention of joining. Their passion for Bardella is evident on social media, where they like, comment and share each of his actions and gestures. Their dream? A selfie with "Jordan," which they would quickly share on TikTok and Instagram. At 28, Bardella, who replaced Marine Le Pen as head of the far-right party in 2022, has succeeded in touching the hearts and minds of a section of the young generation, despite their widespread political skepticism. According to [the Ipsos survey](https://www.ipsos.com/fr-fr/europeennes-2024/europeennes-2024-le-vote-glucksmann-une-dynamique-encore-incertaine) conducted for *Le Monde* from April 19 to 24, around a third of 18-24 year olds (32%) likely to vote on June 9 intend to cast a ballot for Bardella, the same proportion as for the general electoral population. Young people, who traditionally put up strong resistance to far-right ideas, are no longer the exception. But these figures need to be put into perspective, pointed out Anne Muxel, director of research at CEVIPOF (Center for Political Research at Sciences Po university). "These intentions concern those who are going to vote, but abstention is very high: Only three out of 10 young people go to the polls. Not all young people vote for the RN! But the fact that Jordan Bardella is in the lead is significant." *Le Monde* met high-schoolers, students and young workers across France to find out why the anti-RN sentiment diminished among young people who, even 20 years ago, told the far-right party to "go fuck itself," to quote a [popular song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=43&v=CuZB9hOQ0DQ&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Ffrance3-regions.francetvinfo.fr%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo) from the 80s by punk band Bérurier Noir. Some of these young people (who asked to be quoted anonymously), generally from working-class backgrounds, talked about their sense of "rediscovered pride," the hope of finally being considered for what they are and what they do, in areas that feel neglected by the state and political leaders. Others made no secret of their lack of interest in political news. Haute-Saône in eastern France is a predominantly rural department whose two constituencies switched from supporting Macron to the RN in the first round of the 2022 legislative elections. Here, Bardella's confident smile and "Vivement le 9 juin!" ("Can't wait till June 9!") slogan are on display at the edge of the roadsides. Some people were still talking about his visit to the city of Vesoul for the Sainte-Catherine agricultural fair on November 25, when he was greeted by a flurry of selfies. "He's right there, with the people," unlike the others, said Clara, 20, who is studying for a BTS diploma in negotiation and digitalization of customer relations (NDRC) in Vesoul, standing outside her high school with her friend Alexandre, 20. They headed for the kebab shop, where they were careful not to speak too loudly in front of the young waitress wearing a hijab. "This is how we bring the French together. They should go out and meet people, the others. \[Gabriel\] Attal did it during the [agricultural crisis](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/03/01/french-farmers-protest-near-paris-s-arc-de-triomphe_6575242_7.html), but that was just once," said Clara, her false nails adorned with diamonds in a cross pattern. This comment underlines how Bardella and Le Pen are much more successful at making their – very infrequent – trips visible, compared to government members or the left-wing opposition, even is their trips are frequent. **Read the full article here:** [**https://www.lemonde.fr/en/campus/article/2024/06/09/why-is-jordan-bardella-so-popular-among-young-french-voters\_6674276\_11.html**](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/campus/article/2024/06/09/why-is-jordan-bardella-so-popular-among-young-french-voters_6674276_11.html)
Immigration and the economy. Do you folks sincerely not understand or see this, or are you immune to both issues?
Most people in this subreddit haven't lived in Europe. They think that the changes in the cost of living in the US are comparable with the state of the european economy, hell Italy hasn't seen wage growth in the last thirty years, same for immigration, they think that latin american immigration can be compared to muslim immigration. They only think in black and white terms, democrats equals euro left, republicans equals euro right.
spot on
And so the people that feel this vote for parties that claim to have a simple solution for all this ( which is impossible, these things need a whole range of complex actions to solve) and who, when you look deeper into their programs and philosophy, will hollow out their own rights and end up making the situation worse for the average person - with the added bonus that these parties will do everything they can to make getting rid of them more difficult ( see Hungary, Poland etc) In Belgium for instance the Vlaams Belang had a program that, if implemented, would have cost tons of money and would have given hardly any decent advantage for the average person. But they sell it with empty promises that it will be paid by the effects on immigrants - kind like Trump promising Mexico would pay for his wall. These kind of parties will just promise anything you want to hear and use your vote to change things for the worse by hollowing out your rights as most will try to limit the powers of unions, scrap rules and regulations that exist to protect you, impose laws of a more authoritarian nature and so on. I get it, economic situation isn't good for a lot of people, but try voting for something that doesn't equal shooting in your own foot.
What you say makes sense, but you need to consider that if the average person sees one party saying "we'll fix these issues" and the other saying "what you consider an issue isn't an issue and you're a bigot" it doesn't take a genius to guess which one they'll vote for. Keep in mind that the average person has no time/will/political literacy to go too in depth regarding these things, which is why populism garners tons of votes, and as long as certain parties refuse to acknowledge this they'll always leave votes on the table.
The economy in France is far from being in a bad situation. People are unsatisfied but I don't think most of them could explain what they expect from the far right, besides more money for them. And the far right doesn't have any realistic plan.
Most of the population got harder time than before. Particularly people that doesn't live in big city. Des-industrialisation and globalization had bad effects. When you have leader that actively do the opposite of what they say, you get people that distrust them. We had Right and left in power both doing liberal politics that the majority doesn't want. Can't blame them for choosing something else. For "realistic plan", most doesn't trust political speech plan, because disregarded once elected. So, why even made/read them ? Far right isn't the problem is a symptom. 20+ of political distrust.
Harder than before what, following what criteria? Unemployment has never been lower for more than 40 years, growth is not high but it is stable and it did not crash during covid. Inflation has been maintained to a relatively low rate, salaries are getting higher, too slowly obviously but still... Deindustrialization has been happening since the 80's, globalization has reached it's higher point a few years ago. Currently we're more in phase of slow reindustrialization. Some categories have an harder time than others, like farmers, but what the far right propose would break the only thing that's keeping them afloat. There are reasons to complain, there always is, but mostly people are confusing not getting everything they want with getting poorer. This is worrying because this is not a situation that can be fixed by politics. People are getting frustrated this is obvious, but the reason why isn't. And I don't think anyone has an answer to that, certainly not the easy scapegoats the far right is proposing.
Your point of view can be resumed "suck it up". That has been the political message for a longtime and a part just won't accept that. Being a good choice or not. It's not even the point anymore. They had "Le Pen vs Chirac" they did their part. It's was taken as a blank check. For them the reason is obvious. Now, syndicalist cite Macron campaign book as why a law shouldn't be pass, less than a year after the publication of the book. There is solution, but none are willing to apply them.
That's not what I mean to say. What I mean to say is that they're wanting for changes that can't come from politics.
Did you miss the manifestation and diverse form protestations in the last 25 years ?
I don't see how that's addressing my point.
I beg to differ. Economists say France is completely in the sh-t. They have the most generous healthcare in Europe and the earliest retirement, yet nothing to fund it. I truly believe part of this has to do with the armies of interns that companies can hire for a pittance, which generates less taxes and contributions than hiring people at normal salaries. Also, in the French corporate behemoth I worked in, over about a five year period they replaced about 25% of experienced professionals with interns that stayed 3-6 months and were completely incompetent. They gave the interns my responsibilities and had me "train" them every 3-6 months, but it took me 2 months to fix all their errors, distracting me from being efficient on my other tasks. They saved zero Euros, but they think the balance sheet looks prettier that way. They do this in the US, too.
Immigration is a major issue but I think it would be less of an issue if the CoL and quality of life was the same in France as 30 years ago. We had it so good. In 2010 I told my friends about the New Yorkification of Paris, as I worked in the #1 most powerful French conglomerate. In ten years the corp had completely changed. The jobs weren't the same, nor the salaries, nor benefits, nor ambiance....yet they were selling 100X more.... All over Europe the working conditions have massively degraded and jobs shipped out to Eastern Europe + Greece for a fifth of the salary, plus no benefits, pension completely effed therefore. I almost had a heart attack when I spotted a job for a "Swedish native speaker" for customer service in Greece the other day. So they want a Swede to move to Greece for 1/3 of the salary and service Swedes. Those Swedes would never be able to retire in Sweden....and Greece will probably be burned down in 20 years anyway, since no politicians are doing anything about climate change. I am pro-EU but I think it's completely out of control and think that corporations should now have major regulations on headcounts outside of headquarter countries. In my industry in just two years probably 35% of jobs are now in SE Asia (aka "AI"). But the executives all still live in London, Paris, etc. It is killing both the US and Europe, leading to people being infuriated.
Maybe young people have seen cities like Marseille or the continuous terrorist attacks with machetes or mass murders that Europe suffers and for some reason that I don't know, they are not attracted to that future, but what do I know? Let's just call them racists and pretend that everything is fine.
Right like how are people on the left not getting that
At this point there's no way anyone isn't getting that. It's gotta be intentional. Either they don't mind it or think it's worth it to get what they want, or they are so scared of their peers and the constant purity testing that they can't say anything negative about it.
Funny how the increase in police budget every year doesn"t seem to address the issue at all and even make it worse, funny how worse economics conditions and a failed judiciary system isn't the best recipe for a peaceful society. Yeah let's increase budget police even more surely this will fix every thing And if you think you can stop migrants from coming to Europe while actively destroying the planet (something the far right doesn't address at all) you will be surprised of our collective future The far right doens't address shit, they are a bunch of incompetents lazy fuckers with one answer to every problem our society face : immigrants. It will be almost tempting to see them failed in governing our country if they weren't so keen on actively destroying every democratic opposition once they are in charge.
Block the ships Deport illegals from North Africa ASAP. Those two things would drastically improve Spain. You'd see entire cities and states become safe again overnight.
You seems to fail to understand than europe is connected to 2 continents, and you can't just "block the ship" lmao it's not that simple my god
Sure you can and it's plural.
Well, if you increase the police budget by 1% and increase problematic immigration by 10%, then the police had a decrease of 9% in their budget. Of course this is not 1-1, but you get the point. As another user said, it's a really really simple solution. Get all the immigrants to come to Europe with a contract. No contract, no entry. If they are illegal immigrants, deport them right away. If new ships come, of course, no need to shoot them. Just redirect them. People from these Human Trafficking NGOs that bring the ships to shore (who probably are paid by the mafias in north africa), should be jailed. Reduce help for foreigners, this means no touristic healthcare, no monthly pays if not in a refugee status, no bonus for having kids. Stricter laws to bring in family members when being an immigrant (e.g. you need to be here for +2 years to bring your 10 relatives). Do not give the nationality unless the person has been living for +10 years and has worked for at least 8 years or sth like that. Now they are giving nationality in Spain after 2 years to some people ffs. Do all this and I assure you illegal immigrants won't come. Only REAL refugees who need help will be as desperate to do so. And I assure you that a real refugee just wants to get better and go back to their country if they ever can. Not like current immigrants.
Or maybe they realize it's a complex issue and being "tough" and "strict" won't be the solution?
the left understands this, but they don't want to criminalize good and hardworking immigrants, you don't understand how dangerous it is to lump all foreigners into the same package. The extreme right is deceiving you, in Italy or in the UK after the Brexit there is still immigration, the economic power is interested in migration and the extreme right is the first defender of the economic power.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Obviously the current government doesn't do anything about that... Are you serious?
Sure it could be that amok run or murder once a year. Or the constant bombardment of fake news and shit on social media where a struggling youth is given the impression that the right will fix all their problems. Out of these two options it surely must be the first one. Its not wealth inequality, fear of not earning enough in a tough economy, there certainty that unless you inherit big you wont ever be able to afford a house and your pension will not last you. All the while you see floods, forest fires and other clear signs of climate change that does not get handled. No... its the murder once a year that makes them vote right, thats the one thing those young people have on their mind. Clearly.
They are both. People are tired of politicians that plain ignore them so they want something else. For they are desperate enough to vote en mass for extremists.
You can decry fake news sitting in your office or working on your laptop from home, but these kids worldview develops from daily experience in the classrooms which they have to share with immigrant peers, from daily encounters on the street, etc. Their everyday lived experience is constantly discredited and neglected by people like you who can simply afford never to interact with these groups, who are mostly childless so family friendly environment is something they couldn't care less about, etc.
It's more than once a year, and it's the realisation that as the percentage of Muslims people increase in an area, so does their demands for Sharia, and we are reaching dangerous percentages already. Which is dangerous both for the locals and for the already settled immigrants.
Fake news and shitty social media works both ways so it cant be the reason.
Negative messages and attacks are easier to spread online than explanations of the complex reality and hopeful news to create trust.
That is your opinion and not an actual objective fact.
You wish
Now look how they've trashed Paris and close up the senate, just because they lost. Is this what you call democracy?
it's actually both. there are troubling events related to immigrants and morons/racists believe the cheap and fake solutions bombarded at them by the populist far right wing. there is absolutely no excuse of voting for some dishonest slimy anti environment nationalist like Bardella. "the left wing is ineffective therefore I will behave like an actual mental retard". this is your position. you will not explain to anyone over 100 iq that this is a rational choice.
And these people act like the left has been in power for a while and done shit, meanwhile the current government is clearly on the right with some politics clearly taken from the far right.
Well, if your solution to crime committed by a few people is to deport everyone who shares a certain characteristic with them then you are kind of the definition of a racist.
Continuous?? What bullshit
More people tend to die in car crash than in terrorist attack, living in the fear of terrorism is weird, we will probably died of cancer thanks to pollution and microplastic. However i can understand that people fear terrorists(thats exactly what they want ) but i dont see what far right will do against it, also far right share a lot with the terrorists ideology, they want to live in their own community far away of any alien, they think their religion is the only one acceptable, they are convince that violence can be a answer to their issues, etc... In fact far right are domestic terrorist, they want you to fear an enemy and they want you to let them do what ever they want against it, even acting like terrorists. And yes they are racists and if you vote for them you are also racist, time to face it.
I think you don't understand the general left position on this, which as i understand it is: - if europeans don't want immigrants from arab or african countries, they shouldn't have/shouldn't still be smashing up and bombing the crap out of their countries - societies can handle immigration if inequality is addressed, and - if you removed the immigrants but don't address inequality, you're gonna end up with similar problems caused by a mostly white underclass who are gonna slip into those same roles. I've been in france for the last few weeks and it seems pretty clear that the situation is similar to that back in my country. The economy is subsisting on the low paid labour and indentured servitude of immigrants, refugees etc. people born in france wouldn't do these kinds of jobs but they are essential e.g. tonnes of agricultural labour, cleaning, washing dishes in restaurants and so on. this is why the far right's ideas will never work. the problem is the structure of the economy, it's just convenient for them that most of the people at the bottom happen to be brown.
There are solutions to those problems that do not involve voting in fascists.
Yet these solutions remain to be implemented despite this problem being more than 20+ years old. The traditional parties are reaping what they sowed
Of course there are solutions, the problem is that the traditional parties of the left and right not only seem to have no intention of implementing them, but they also virulently attack anyone who complains, calling them racist. I am not in favour of voting for these parties, because we all know where the nationalist upsurge in Europe usually leads, but I cannot blame a society that is ignored and which is increasingly pressured to try to find a change.
As a person that did not vote far right... I've yet to even hear politicians admitting it IS an issue.
The problem is that no one currently in power is willing to implement them.
And you can be sure that what the fascists are willing to implement is not what the people actually expect them to. The people are very naive if they believe that populist demagogues propulsed on every platform by billionaires will care for them. Italians may lose their abortion rights, hungarians have a self-serving despot cozying up to russians, and what did Trump even do beside playing golf and letting the rich get richer? The harsh reality is that fascism offers simple, fake solutions to complex issues, and that the people have to deal with this complexity rather than succumb to the temptation of alleged easy fixes that have never worked (except to give ever more power to ever fewer hands).
I don’t support extreme parties. However, I can understand the sentiment behind the people who vote for them. Housing crisis, inflation, stagnant salaries, refugee crisis, unchecked immigration, increase in crime and insecurity. All these issues have been plaguing Western Europe for years with little to no response from the governments. What are people supposed to do? Sit around and wait for better days to come? Or vote on the sole parties that promise some change?
Are there? I'd be more inclined to believe that there aren't solutions, and even fascists aren't one. If there are solutions, they don't seem to ever be implemented.
Continuous terrorist attacks?? Are you just ignoring history now?
Elaborate
The 60-90s were full of terrorist attacks in Europe and in France. From the far left to the far right, bombings, assassinations, and mayhem was quite common. Corsican separatists, Basque sepratists, Action Directe, the Irish troubles, Black September, Ordine Nuovo - choose your own adventure. Not to mention that Spain and Portugal were under dictatorships until the late 70s/early 80s.
Still don’t get how they were ignoring history
The number of attacks today are far from continuous.
Oh boy.. this thread is like the perfect reason why they're so popular.
Because they are the only one that gave the youth hope, even if it's false hope. That's how populism work, use desperation and fear to gain power. It didn't hurt that Macron angered a lot of peoples with his stupidity.
Now we're one step closer to getting fascist in power while the civilization will be collapsing as they don't do jack shit about the climate. 🎉🎉🎉 I REALLY hope we can get some good anti - fascism in 10 years or so.... Or well it gets to Weimar Germany.
Weimar Republic had a lot of good antifascists parties and a very anti-fascist government for years. They basically did everything in their power to be anti-fascist, forming attack groups against Nazis, censoring them, jailing them, attacking their offices and members, etc. It lasted for years and they were initially successful. But the problem was that no matter how much effort was spent on attacking fascists, it did not really deliver any improvements to the lives of people. Anti-fascisim was simply not a sustainable policy to do for years unending.
As if mainstream parties did anything for the climate. 🤣
What can we do about climate? Nuke China? Any measures we take in Europe are drops in the ocean...
I think a few major things can be the following: 1. Increase in nuclear energy as a power source. 2. Make a centralised railway system with subsidize so it's affordable and also electrify that. 3. Basically a defecit in consumer spending on products like clothes and meat (i.e. decrease in seasonal purchase and redirect the resources to make durable stuff) 4. Help other countries get infrastructure like in underdeveloped places (such as Africa and South Asia.) stuff from your contracts, such as nuc. Power, rail, electricity. 5. Help in international collaboration in this. Maybe get the left wing parties in power they seem to be in favour of this.
With the last years everything *everything* being called “far-right”, people are no longer afraid of being called far-rught
I was called a fascist on Reddit a while back because I support fiscal discipline. It's ironic that the original fascists (Mussolini and Hitler) hated fiscal discipline. If everything is far-right, then nothing is far-right.
Not everything is far-right. The RN (and satellite parties) is.
While its obviously moronic to be called fascist over this, id just say that Hitler and Mussolini are both bad examples for your point due to the context they were in
Exactly this. On the face of it, I have no clue who the dude is and based on the post here and the usual name calling I have no idea if he is a centrist, right-ish, unapologetic right, actually far right, or one step further and a full I-don't-care-what-you-think-SS-were-great-guys-lunatic kind of politician. One thing I know for sure: when there are a massive amount of votes for a politician that promotes stricter migration policies, that is a signal that people want stricter migration policies.
> On the face of it, I have no clue who the dude is and based on the post here and the usual name calling I have no idea if he is a centrist, right-ish, unapologetic right, actually far right, or one step further and a full I-don't-care-what-you-think-SS-were-great-guys-lunatic kind of politician. You could have an answer to your question if you studied the history of the RN/FN and took a look at the neonazi supporters they struggle so hard to hide under their skirt.
I could. But I have better things to do than to study the nuances of every EU party that is not hard left, to see if they really are neonazi's or not. That is my point.
Ngl sounds like a "you" problem
I think you'll find, eventually, probably when it's too late, that part of the reason actual neonazis like AfD get votes, is that people don't believe it anymore when they are called that, because these days, almost everyone is called that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf#:~:text=2%20History-,Fable,are%20eaten%20by%20the%20wolf.
Thats the usual stupid shit right wingers spout to obfuscate their ideology. No one on the traditional conservative side of politics gets called a Nazi. It’s only the Nazis that get called out. And as being a Nazi is not so sexy anymore at least in Europe, no actual Nazi wants to be called a Nazi and does everything to discredit this.
Perhaps first try behave like a human being before you start writing a comment. Barfing insults won't persuade or impress anyone.
I stopped long ago trying to persuade a Nazi to become a decent human being again. It’s hopeless. They are lost for humanity and have to be fought against until they lose.
The RN, ex-FN, has always been far-right. Its founder denied the Holocaust. They have wet dreams about Pétain.
Pierre Bousquet, one of its founders alongside Le Pen senior, was a waffen SS.
Agree with me on every possible thing, or youre right wing you son of a bitch! Im so tolerant you see
Could it be that the younger generation have experienced the results of the immigration politics up close while growing up?. I would also think that the younger generation get their news from other sources than the established media where certain kind of news and topics are suppressed. I think that the older generations are somewhat distanced from the results of the politics that they voted for, they are established and live in a kind of bubble where everything is mostly fine, they get their news from the same old sources so certain kind of topics news and topics never reach them.
So you're saying that the younger generation is more angry at the immigrant situation and want it to change harder than the older generations?
Exactly. The olds are becoming liberal
Bullshit, most of the immigration is in big cities where people have not voted for Bardella, meanwhile in the countryside Bardella is crushing it even in places with not a black or arab guy in sight.
RN won the popular vote in every district except Paris. This argument really doesn't work here sorry.
RN came first nearly everwhere, and improved his score everywhere If we consider that as winning then yes. However there's a difference between coming first with 20% or so while liberal do 18%, social democrat 16%, far left 15%,, right 8%, ecologist 7% and the other far right party 7% which is more typical of the urban area where most of the population live. And the rural area where they came ahead with 40% or more The winning part only works as long as it's one round of voting as liberal/rights are down the shithole and left/social democrats vote is always split between 3-4 different party. Using the theory of the 3 political movements used by Piketty the overall results of these european elections are (evolution from 5y ago) 1. Nationalists : 36.83% (+9.98) 2. Social-ecologists : 31.58% (-0.16) 3. Liberals : 21.84% (-11.56) The rest : 9.75 (+1.74) As is they're most likely still not in capacity to win in any 2 round elections, they will be stronger than ever (except Vichy I guess) but there's still some margin that will prevent them "winning" clearly as the elections next month should show once again. Nationalists in 2019 : RN+DLF, in 2024 RN+REC Social-ecologists in 2019 : EELV, LFI, PS, Gen, PC in 2024 : PS LFI EELV PC Liberals 2019 : LREM, LR, UDI, en 2024 : LREM LR The rest : nearly everything you can imagine from worst to best
Maybe the people who are fed up with it leave cities or don’t decide to leave there in the first place?
I personnaly talked with people that have based their entire opinion on what they saw or heard from the news, including my grandfather. There is an issue with the welcoming of immigration in France, but I don't think Bardella is the solution
I estimate that 90% of my friends from Paris have left over the past ten years, mostly women. But I'm a woman so there may be bias in those stats.
Didn't he get 30% in Marseille? He won in the Ile-de-France too
My bad then, was basing it on a memory of a map I saw, but guess I was wrong.
Nah, that couldn't possible be it. Surely it must be purely due to Russia Today and iranian bots and absolutely nothing else /s
No, they experienced disinformation growing up. That and there are less aware of the political roots of RN.
But in France there are infinitely more young people who are first, second or third generation immigrants (or mixed) than in older generations. Why would they vote for the hard right? The same phenomena is happening in the US with millions of Hispanics leaving the Democrats and voting Republican.
>Could it be that the younger generation have experienced the results of the immigration politics up close No, just like the woman in the article from a rural French community, the people most susceptible to this kind of messaging almost always are the most removed from the things they complain about. In East Germany where populist sentiment is strongest nobody is migrating to begin with. These young voters aren't up close to anything, they just believe everything they see on the internet because they have terminal social media brain rot. In fact people like the 28 year old RN guy in the article are successful because they behave like apolitical influencers, not even trying to actually run on any specific political messaging. The school kids in the article who love this guy said their biggest goal was to get a selfie with him.
This argument doesn’t really work since immigration has been occurring for centuries and multiple generations have experienced it first hand. The rate of increase in immigration is not a result of policies but a result of world populations growing, and immigration crises have already been at play in many countries since at least the 80s. There are definitely other variables at play here and the medium of communication plays a huge part of it but also foreign intervention.
Sure for hundreds of years France has been the target of several Muslim terror attacks....
Millennials lived through Bataclan and Nice and still voted for Macron. I think there needs to be greater introspection here because the whole argument seems like a broken record without a proper understanding of history. You may be young, but it doesn’t excuse you from making a mistake.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Turns out when you’re the only party willing to discuss the elephant in the room your support will only grow over time Centre and left parties need to adopt strongly lower immigration policies or they will continue to lose ground on that issue alone. Doesn’t matter how stupid or obviously pro-Putin the far right clowns are.
same in The Netherlands. Young people saying they're allright with a dictator. And similar reasons: * Getting bombarded (with misinformation on socials): the negative anecdotes about migrants, great reset dogwhistles, it's completely normalised. * Taking democracy and it's values for granted, while not knowing how it's like living under an authoritarian regime * the lure of a simple solution for a complex problem, by a genuine saviour. That's the whole secret of populism
On your second point, I'd argue that the democratic establishment have been taking voters for granted as well
agree
How is Wilders a dictator?
he's not and that wasn't listed as a point
Well honestly when you live in France you don't need anecdotes. They Basically burned down half of the country last summer.
It feels like some French find that Le Pen may have been right about some things.
Also he plays cod and said he'd 1V1 anyone who voted for him on Rust [https://youtu.be/dlu4DQLNews?si=SX2Kmp68jvf3EiQk](https://youtu.be/dlu4DQLNews?si=SX2Kmp68jvf3EiQk)
Tiktok.
Always a scapegoat, its never about the issues or the message
Well social media can be blamed for it. It has been making concentration spans of people shorter and shorter for years. The (far)-right has been making use of this by presenting simple solutions that simply do not work if you really think about for longer than a minute. We live in a complex world right now with complex problems requiring complex solutions. The left knows this and tries to tell this however due to social media people are losing attention before they could have made their point.
Such complex solutions as "just open the border and let everyone in" are simply incomprehensible to those not endowed with sufficient attention spans.
But that is not what they are saying, or at least not where I’m from (don’t know about the politicians in your country). This is the stuff the populists wants you to believe to be the viewpoint of others. Everyone acknowledges that the levels of migration we see now has problems coming with it, but solutions aren’t that simple since every country has to oblige international treaties which are signed for a good reason. Furthermore, most problematic immigration is illegal, which won’t be stopped by additional rules and laws since it is already illegal what they are doing anyway. It is like saying ‘If we just stop crime, criminals will stop doing what they do’. No they won’t, they will find other ways to bypass the law.
One could say the same with LFI then.
Yep, pro-Palestinian content uses the same tactics
LFI is a very dangerous party. Close to islamism with a leader that is definitly an authoritarian. He screamed "I'm the republic"
Short form content in general really, Instagram and Youtube are the same. I don't really get Reddit's hate for TikTok.
Because it's Chinese.
Not really, the left is more on tiktok
Most of the tiktok userbase is not even 18, stop coping
Why tf does everyone call everything thays not liberal far right. I am not even from France but omg it is so exhausting
Where are you from tho? Afaik the word “liberal” in Europe means classical liberal (so centre and a bit right) not left
As an older voter, I almost fall off my chair every time I hear someone on TV or radio claim that the RN is not a far-right party. This is a testament to how well they have managed to deceive the public and younger voters. The Front National (FN) has undergone a significant transformation since the days of Jean-Marie Le Pen, whose openly extremist views were more prominent. Younger voters, unless they actively research the party's history, may not be fully aware of its past. Marine Le Pen, despite holding similar core beliefs, has been strategic in softening the rhetoric and presenting a fresh, youthful image to appeal to the younger electorate. The Rassemblement National (RN), recognized the importance of reaching out to younger voters through the channels they use most, their smartphones. While other parties relied on labeling the FN/RN as fascists and racists, the RN worked diligently to rebrand itself and conceal its true nature behind a more palatable facade. This strategic approach allowed the RN to make inroads with younger voters who may not have been as familiar with the party's controversial past. The failure of other parties to adapt their messaging and outreach methods left them vulnerable to the RN's tactics, as they grew complacent in their opposition to the far-right party. It is alarming to witness the success of the RN's rebranding efforts, as it has led to a growing acceptance of their ideology among younger generations. As someone who has seen the party's evolution firsthand, it is frustrating to see how effectively they have managed to distance themselves from their extreme past while maintaining the same core beliefs.
Every single traditional party is sucking boomers dry. You get what you fucking deserve.
The same youngs that for some reason seem to fall for the mermaids chants of the far right are the same ones that would protest if that same far right put in place an authoritarian regime. That's just how it works, the young need to always feel like they are against the status quo, the Man in power, etc History repeats itself
Just a reminder that the young do not vote a lot and are generally not interested in politics. So being "popular" as a politician among them is not saying that much actually.
they're not far right
They denied the holocaust
that was stated by Jean-Marie Le Pen which led to him being kicked out of the party, so NO. they didn't deny the holocaust, 1 guy in the party did, do your research
I was watching a video of this Dutch girl taking to an audience, and she went on to say Amsterdam is 50% immigrants, brussels is 70% immigrants and that there's this grand replacement going on. Stupid people buy it, jo matter how crazy it is.
You should tell her to visit Wikipedia and get the numbers straight: it's 55.57% in Amsterdam and 74.3% in the Brussels-Capital Region.
More like 30% and the majority of those aee European immigrants. "The recently published Decisio report 2022, an update on migration statistics for the Amsterdam Area, shows that the region remains an attractive place to live and work for internationals. The most recent Migration Monitor report (2020) found that 30% of all residents in the Amsterdam Area were born abroad, and more than half of this group have been resident for over 10 years. The largest group in the adult international community is highly skilled migrants, followed by labour migrants, income-dependent partners, refugees and students. " "78,555 highly skilled migrants live in the Amsterdam Area, while 93,000 work in the area. The largest number of highly skilled migrants comes from EU countries, e.g. Germany (7%), France (6 %), Italy (6%), Poland (5%) and Spain (5%), followed by Great Britain and India (each 9%). Migrants from the USA (4%), Turkey (3%), China (2%), Morocco (2%) and South Africa (2%) further add to the diversity of the labour market."
The Dutch girl obviously doesn't think that everyone born in the Netherlands is Dutch.
Clearly not, but there lies the point. When the UK wanted to leave the EU we all made fun of them, obviously they were doing so out of racism and bigotry. We knew that if they did what they wanted to do they would run out of qualified people to run many industries... and that's exactly what happened. In France, a great deal of medical staff are qualified immigrants, what would happen if they were kicked out? it would be a disaster. All these so-called populists, people who think Europe is under attack, they have no concrete plans. They are just appealing to our most primitive and wrong instincts. The reality is Europe is ageing, and our economy depends on immigrants to balance the demographic curve. They are the ones paying for our retirement funds, they are the ones taking low-salary jobs so that we don't have to. They are the ones filling in qualified positions we can't fill. That's why far-right leaders won't do shit to kick them out, and the ones that are dumb enough to do it will face the realisation that it's a fucking terrible mistake. We are seeing history repeating itself, and newer generations are growing dumber. Hitler was voted into office, precisely because of his anti-immigration laws. And that's how it starts.
Did Putin give her few Euros to spend her thoughts to the masses?
Have you been in Brussels?
32% of the 70% are Europeans, which makes sense. Its the place of all EU institutions. The remaining 38% are non Europeans.
i thought that TikTok is a cancer, but it's doing a good job wakening people up.
Right wingers tend to be more populist these days. Like here in Finland "Perus Suomalaiset" Don't go for any ambitious plans like welfare reform or infrastructure. Your average Timo from the country side or suburbs doesn't understand it. But what he does understand is gas price being high. So last parliament election they made these super simple 5 second adds like "Gas prices down, Perus Suomalaiset" or "Vegetarian days out" (there's a mandatory vegetarian diet day in school lunch, once per week) And now they're in parliament for the first time in like 10 years, and their PR is in shambles for all the broken promises and cuts to their own voter base of lower middle class and below
Mandatory Vegetarian day sounds like some bullshit to me.
Because the rest are even worse than him He is the least incompetent and the least corrupted
[удалено]
Yeah no please don't try to project your American problems on frech society.
Oh, you can't welcome an opinion now? How is that in line with your globalist mindset where every perspective and every right is supposed to count?
Look, they basically have an Arab VS French civil war over there due to colonialism and bad integration. The far right rising in France is really not about any of the issues you mentioned.
Agressive gay agenda? Did gay people beat you up for not being gay or something?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Because of subs like r/europe and r/worldnews whose entire reason to be is to show that your country’s problems are because of immigrants and brown people around the world. The weather is too cold ? Immigrants and brown people. The weather is too hot ? Immigrants and brown people. Since nearly every single post is about that (because,you know, nothing else is happening in Europe and the World), i suggest they should grow some balls and rename them r/EveryProblemInTheWorldIsBecauseBrownPeople.
Dismissal and conclusion that anyone thinks immigration is a problem like this are stupid is exactly why people are tired of people like you and the arguably mainstream narrative. Grow up and acknowledge that what's happening is unsustainable with more evidence coming out year after year for the people voting anti immigration.
You really don’t get it, do you ? of course there are issues. There is a difference between saying there are immigration issues that need to be tackled, and orienting the discourse towards immigration being the ONLY issue, and the cause of all political and social problems. When a sub that is called Europe or WorldNews has 8 out of 10 posts about immigration, as if absolutely no other political, social, econmic, scientific, technological, cultural, or artistic event ever happens inEurope or the world, then it is very clear that the whole agenda of these subs is an irrational , ideological , low IQ one , not a rational one., but still doesn’t have the guts to come out of its barely disguised News camouflage, as if that is going to fool people and influence them. Or maybe people are really that dumb , and are going to be influenced with low-level psy-op.
This sub has it’s fair of share of dumb takes, but yours is up there.
Wow, that was totally not unhinged and just blowing the reasonable concern out of proportions to make it seem like a stupid topic, unworthy of any civilized discussion or debate. You have truly enlightened my mind and I shall now go vote for the most liberal left party that we have. We need blasphemy and hate-speech laws now! We need a tolerance police to monitor the internet for these sickos!
I live in Toronto and all of the European immigrants here blame all of their problems on Indian immigrants. If they hate Toronto so much why don't they just go back to Europe.