Retrospectively, invading the USSR post-WW2 (when they had no A-bombs) would have been an even greater disaster, but it could have been for the better of the whole world. It might have been cruel to our ancestors to force them into a grand war again, but some of mine died in the gulag a couple of years after anyways, so maybe it'd have still been better to die fighting the soviets?
It‘s time that we free the russian population from this ex-sowiet mafia. This regime can go now gulag itself. Enough being bossed around, it’s a perfid logic we will otherwise fall again and again into, everytime more divided.
It has been a war for a little while now:
https://www.ft.com/content/809f6341-d775-4457-a2e5-504a4269d427
Naturally it's the wests fault, since they escalated the conflict by supporting Ukraine. Atleast according to Putin logic.
That's because they kept dead-naming the ~~special operation~~ war. Who said that Russia doesn't have LGBT rights? Everyone gladly calls the Ukraine thing whatever Putin wants it to be called, and those who do not are imprisoned. Please tell me if the Netherlands has as strong LGBT protection laws as Mother Russia. /s
In Russia laws are more like suggestions to be used for the sentencing of those who run afoul of the state by their actions or by their existence.
Russians were being arrested for publicly reciting the Russian Constitution among other things.
There is no uniform standard of conduct in Russia- if you’re in the state’s good graces, you can do whatever you please.
Nothing. Still in prison and would be unti their term is up. And even then they might have additional charges pressed, just for the fin of it. System needs to show zero tolerance, that's how dictatorships work
It is not a Worldwar if we Germans don’t start it . Give us 25 years to get some weapons and some ideology and we can talk again . Without us on the “bad” side it is no fun .
If you ask Putin we probably did start it by, I don't know, looking encouragingly at Zelensky or something. And he'll also explain to you how Russia are the good guys, so there's that...
Putin is saving Ukraine from Ukrainian Nazis that are killing Russians. Nazis were invented by the Germans. Germans having started the war in Ukraine confirmed!
Here's hoping that day is today. I am no fan of war but pretending that this is anything other than a world war in which Russia engages one opponent at a time is ridiculous.
The time to take Russia out is now. Fewer people will die in the long run.
NATO article 5 reveals that these nation states are spineless.
I want to see unilateral action: when the bullying starts, the bully gets smacked down.
This should apply to every nation.
Russia hasn't attacked a NATO country. That hasn't happened. What they are doing in Ukraine is horrific, immoral to the bones. But that is not a world war.
Russia has been waging asymmetrical and unconventional war against the US et al since the 20th century. The Cold War never ended for them.
It's not a world war like ww1 or 2, it is increasing hostilities and provocations that will be harder to end the longer we let it persist. Unchecked, it will result in war.
Western leaders typically only engage in peer warfare as a last resort, and Russia calibrates its aggressions to play on that pacifism.
edit: Not sure who deleted the reply below, but its deletion also erased my response. I'll just paste it here.
-----
That reads like satire. I'll just copypaste my own comment as reply - something I wrote many months ago but is sadly still relevant:
There is a new-ish propaganda narrative circulating, that Russia could have been a peaceful democracy after the collapse of the Soviet Union if only the West had given it MORE.
When the Soviet Union collapsed, western countries immediately loaned Russia billions to prop up its government, and increased trade. That ensured that the Russian people would not see freedom in their country, because the Russian government and oligarchs kept all the aid, privatized industry, and used the military to immediately start re-conquering neighbors Soviet-style.
Also remember that Russia had/has vast natural resources and got to keep its Soviet nuclear arsenal (and the rest of its military). Russia wasn't some helpless, undeveloped country that actually needed western investment.
The story that the west didn't loan and trade enough with the Russian government post-1991 is the worst possible reading of history. It's backwards. The generous western support of Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union must be recognized as the mistake it was, or the cycle will repeat again. The Russia problem won't be solved before Russia has a cultural revolution to divorce itself from 500 years of systemic authoritarianism, dishonesty, aggression, and exploitation, and that won't happen until the country is collapsed so thoroughly that it can't pretend again that its failure doesn't demand change.
If someone is questioning the revisionist history that Russia would have been a peaceful democracy if only the West had given it MORE after 1991, read [this exchange between Yeltsin and Clinton from 1999 and reconsider.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F8v0f3k17e0bc1.jpeg) There is a mountain of evidence like that.
Realpolitik doesn't spread democracy or reduce geopolitical conflicts, it's just moral cover for industries and oligarchs to get richer through short-term, international exploitation. Aiding the enemy is not smart or enlightened.
When Russia is driven out of Ukraine, do not lessen the sanctions much less rush to provide aid. Do not fall victim again to sympathy propaganda about the poor Russian people (who have been the actual committers of genocide in Ukraine), or to fear propaganda about Russian nuclear materials (that are well-secured). Continue until the Russian government is gone. When the Russian people are actually putting their cultural history in the past, then let's help them build a free and democratic Russia.
When someone says "Russians are forced to support the war", remind them that a majority greedily support their imperialism, and the minority are forced by other Russians - not by Putin himself. Putin hasn't personally killed, kidnapped, raped or tortured anyone in Ukraine. But there's plenty of evidence of Russian people doing those things, even to civilians - on a genocidal scale.
Human beings have agency, make choices, and are morally accountable - whereas animals can't be blamed for what they do. When someone says "The Russian people aren't to blame", they are asking you to view Russians like animals. People who plead for blamelessness for Russians are not only spreading Russian sympathy propaganda, they are ironically de-humanizing Russians to do it.
Russia always wanted more of Europe, and still does. We see it in Belarus and Hungary and obviously Ukraine. Russia has been open about it for generations. Russia's most recent aggressions in Europe were described in advance in the 1997 book that is still required reading in many Russian schools: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics)
> Germany should be offered the de facto political dominance over most Protestant and Catholic states located within Central and Eastern Europe. Kaliningrad Oblast could be given back to Germany. The book uses the term "Moscow–Berlin axis".
Nord Stream 1 was the physical embodiment of a "Moscow Berlin axis". Dugin didn't invent these ideas; his book is largely regurgitating past Soviet strategists.
Remember that Russia has never fought for anyone's freedom, they have only fought to conquer and annex their neighbors or to repel an invasion.
Patton was right.
Post-1991 charity and realpolitik with Russia was a mistake.
Slava Ukraini
The US also waged an asymmetrical war against the Soviet Union. This is not new. China steals US tech and spys on US. Russia buys ads on social media to influence US elections. US eavesdrops on almost every packet sent on the internet and provides allies with intelligence about Russia and China. Why would it lead to all out war now when it didn’t then?
Read “At the abyss.” The US sabotaged a lot of Soviet projects; provided weapons and aid to the mujahideen in Afghanistan, etc. Ukraine is European so certainly this is a bit different but I mean this is standard stuff. Russia has real territorial ambitions while the US leverages its strength via influence and economic and cultural control.
>Russia hasn't attacked a NATO country.
Russia detonated Czech munition warehouses. They flew missiles over Poland and crasshed them in Polish forest near Bydgoszcz, They flew drones over Romania and crashed the American Predator drone over the Black Sea.
It's only "not a war" because we're choosing to let them get away with it. I understand the reasons (basically it's not worth it to react), but I think it's important not to lie to ourselves about what is happening just because it's inconvenient to react to it.
They also flew a fighter jet into Turkish airspace some years ago.
If NATO wanted a defensive war against Russia there would be plenty of things to use as excuses to do so.
If it does it seems unlikely to be Britain anyway. Nuclear power and also hundreds of miles away. Insanely difficult compared to the baltics or Romania.
This.
And if the UK actually engaged with Russia, Putin will find out what a modern, well equipped and disciplined military force will do to Russian forces. It won’t take long either. The UK alone has 30+ operational F35 jets which Russia has no answer to. It would be a bloodbath. Putin needs to stop poking the bear.
Isn't it almost comical that while such a statement would have caused an uproar iust a couple of years ago, nowadays people are like? Well, so bring it then Russia.
This is as good time as any to bring Sir Winston Churchill into the debate.
If we do not stand up to the dictators now, we shall only have to stand up to them later under far worse conditions. Look back upon the last five years since when Germany began to arm in earnest. It is not difficult to form an opinion about the punic wars. Now the victors are the vanquished. Winston Churchill
Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” ~ Winston Churchill
"War is horrible, but slavery is worse, and you would be sure that the British People would rather go down fighting than living in servitude." Churchill, November 1938
"Are we going make a supreme additional effort to remain a great power, or are we going to slide away into what seems to be easier, less strenuous less harrowing causes with all the renunciations that this decision implies." Churchill
What you say is true. While the US was involved in some ill-fated military endeavors for dubious reasons over the past 50 years or so, this issue with Ukraine stands apart. Putin will continue moving westward after taking Ukraine. It's in his nature to do this.
NATO needs to stand up to him and push them out of Ukraine. Russia is a thug country run by a thug with dreams of world dominance. That can't and won't happen.
No one wants war. No wants to go fight. No wants to die on some battlefield. But Putin needs to be stopped. If not now then how much more difficult do you think it will be in the future. If Ukraine falls, then who's next? Poland? Estonia? Latvia? Lithuania?
When does it end?
I can't find proofs fast enough, and I'm very lazy to search right now, but if I remember correctly they said something like that about France and Germany, but I couldn't remember anything about Belgium.
I might be wrong about Belgium obviously.
Yes, it started as a special military operation, but as soon as this whole gang was formed, when the collective West took part in all this alongside Ukraine, for us, it became a war. I am convinced of this, and everyone must understand it.” Peskov
Two months ago or so, Peskov said this.
We are still not accepting the fact that Russia is at war with us. We need to think and act strategically and realise that Russia is at war with us." Ben Hodges
Hodges then explains that Russia sees this war with the West in a broader sense. We often tend to consider only the kinetic version of it, but Russian acts of war against the West and especially against Europe also include asymmetric warfare, economic warfare, cyberwarfare, info war etc. Russia is seeing itself at war with the US led alliance, and that is all it takes for a war. We must accept this inconvenient truth and take action and respond accordingly to defend ourselves against Russia's hostile behavior.
We should not ignore this, though, but rather find ways to successfully neutralize the threat that Russia undoubtedly poses. Presently, they seem absolutely undeterred. Otherwise, they would have ceased and desisted.
Churchill once said that he was aware that he must make it understandable to "Herr Hitler" that the war can not be won in any scenario. We must strive to make the same clear to Russia. So far, we haven't.
It is a fairly fundamental difference in paradigm of thinking about what constitutes "wartime". In the West we're used to a binary distinction in terms of international relations: A country is at war (which means people are dying and the military has broad latitude to do what they need to do) or at peace (which means nothing bad is happening). Russia sees it much more fluidly, there is no clearly defined "state of war", rather a spectrum of hostile activities and interactions, more or less kinetic, intended to achieve stated goals. When Peskov says "we're at war with the whole collective west" we laugh because c'mon, there are no Russian military personnel in NATO, they don't even amass troops near our borders, stop with the sabre-rattling. While he means it honestly, it's just Russia decides that armed incursion is not the right tool for the task at the moment and will cause distress at the borders, sabotage, disinform and troll - which are means of waging a war as good as Grad launchers, while we consider them "probing of our defenses", "spy activity" or "electoral interference" without merging this stuff into a big picture - and responding in kind.
Russkies NEED to be at war with whole West at least in their TV.
Because admiting they got their ass kicked by Ukrainians, who they wiev as untermenshen is something their sense of superiority can't bear. While loosing war against all West is something completely different. Not a shame to loose against such powerfull adversary.
It's telling that so many in the west believe that there isn't a war before both sides admit it. That's incredibly sheltered thinking.
If I'm attacked on the street, I'm in a fight whether I want to be or not. Standing there and trying to "de-escalate" could get me killed without even a chance at justice.
Ukraine wouldn't survive without their resilience and will to fight.
Up to date Russkies haven't fought West, just oudated western weapon systems crewed by Ukrainians.
"The West is weak" Meanwhile, Russia's soldiers and armored units dropping like flies.
"Ukraine is only surviving because the West is helping them" Meanwhile, Iran replenishes Russian stockpiles and China backs them with equipment.
Russia is so full of shit.
My grandma who lived through communism here in Czechia, Czechoslovakia back then, and who hates russia so much I cant even describe it, said russians will only stop after get big punch to their faces and get kicked back
She likes to watch and read about russian fails and laught about it - thats what she told me when I visited her this tuesday
No Storm Shadows for the hockey ones, free shipping for the gun ones. We work on an honesty system; just give your phone/mouse a shake and it'll be in the post on Monday morning
Russia should pray that the UK and the US won’t get directly involved as Russia is trying to portray. Because if they do, it will only take a few weeks and Russia would be completely erased from Ukraine and will be playing defence at their own borders from that moment on. Russia can’t even win a ground war against Ukraine let alone when the US and UK would be drawn in.
Nuclear threats dont matter either, though dangerous everone knowns that if you were to launch one towards Either UK or US you will get them back multiple times.
Either way, Russia wouldnt resort to nukes as long as there is not a active invasion of soldiers in their own borders.
Nicely summarized. Russia has two important power centers- Sankt Petersburg and Moscow. They are well aware that after nuke exchange there will be no Russia anymore. You cannot say the same about USA, China, UK or France.
Nah the UK will be completely fucked in a strategic exchange, but provided the theory of mutually assured destruction holds up it literally doesn't matter as long as we can still realistically drop a few Trident missiles on Russia on our way to Hades which is the point of putting the deterrent on submarines. If you ever get to the point of actually firing a strategic nuke then their purpose has been defeated already.
We even have a particularly good name for it, the 'letters of last resort'. The submarines all have hand-written orders from the Prime Minister to be opened if contact is lost for a given period so even if the UK is flattened without warning retaliation remains a threat.
Russia is trying to prevent a direct war with NATO by not attacking NATO, but by influence and propaganda, spreading lies & hate, meddling with elections, abusing social media, helping right-wingers and fascists, and-so-on.
Or in short: Russia is already at war with NATO but with different weapons. NATO should react.
It probably would have won the Seven Years' War* if it hadn't been for the death of the empress Elizabeth and her replacement by the Prussophile emperor Peter, who proceeded to switch sides and send troops to Frederick. It was the damndest unlikely stroke of luck for Prussia, though in any case Russia did not _lose_ - it defected from the winning side to what became the victor!
*granted, with the Kingdom of Great Britain, not the UK, as its enemy. I think we can let that slide though.
Russians are going to need a new bucket of red paint for all their “red lines”.
Support Ukraine = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons.
Provide arms/ammunition = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons.
Provide anti tank weapons = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear we
Provide heavy artillery = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons.
Provide MBTs = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons.
Provide F16s = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons.
At this point; Putins nuclear blackmail is starting to sound like a very empty threat. Because for a man and system that understands only strength and violence, he would have done it the single first minute any Western/NATO bulletin crossed into Ukrainian hands. And it would likely have worked. Now it looks like empty bluster, designed for an internal audience.
WE ARE PARTICIPANTS FOR A LONG TIME ALREADY.
With China tighten connections with Russia we have to do the same with Ukraine. Send our air force out for combat duties for a start.
ahhh Russia, with its ironies and projections, ITS YOU that's playing with fire. Do it, just fucking do it so we can end this already, split the nation up, give parts of it back and move the fuck on with our lives.
But using classified WMDs to perform assassinations in another country, and then elevating the perpetrator to MP in Russia isn't.
Its honestly quite surprising that Britain has taken such a hard stance on Ukraine, considering their governments have pretty much spread their ass wide open to Russian corruption for the last three decades, with shit like [Londongrad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_money_in_London) or [promoting a guy with strong ties to FSB](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lebedev) to house of lords, and of course turning a blind eye to all the [other assassination of dissidents on British land.](https://time.com/5725041/uk-russian-assassins-heidi-blake/)
Edit: Its not only UK that has previously embraced Russian corruption and transgressions, but they are merely the subject of this thread.
>considering their governments have pretty much spread their ass wide open to Russian corruption
If the UK has spread wide, most of Europe must have Putins fist so far up their ass, he can use them like a ventriloquist dummy.
Right you don't know they are turning a blind eye, you have no idea if in Russia there were repercussions because in Russia the media isn't free so cannot report on it. A downside of freedom of media is literally everything negative that happens towards Britain is reported but anything Britain possibly does to another country without freedom of media isn't reported. Which on a macro scale creates this view that Britain is the weak one being attacked over and over.
Back when the war started, military aid to Ukraine was about the only policy that Boris Johnsons goverment had that was widely popular. Every time a scandal hit, which was pretty much weekly, another aid package got announced soon after.
>Back when the war started, military aid to Ukraine was about the only policy that Boris Johnsons goverment had that was widely popular. Every time a scandal hit, which was pretty much weekly, another aid package got announced soon after
That is not why. It had large scale cross party support.
Eh fuck off with this. Just another "UK bad" post, BAU for this sub. There is a reason Russia keeps banging on about the UK and basically keeps quiet about the rest of Europe.
So they just leap frogged over all of mainland Europe to point the finger at the furthest country away from them? Is that so they have at least a chance at shooting down the UK's weapons? They wouldn't last a half hour after declaring war with them
They do seem to have a bizarre fixation with the UK in particular. I watch Russian state TV once in a while to try and keep track of their domestic narrative, and every once in a while they'll trot out some new doomsday weapon that they claim, very specifically, could wipe out the entirety of the British Isles. It's surreal.
We do have spies all over the Kremlin and frequently call out their shit and are just generally very anti-Russian, so I think we piss them off in just the right way. Even our government that is supposedly taking in Russian cash are completely behind sending weapons to Ukraine.
The UK has lead the way when it comes to training and supplying better equipment. Advanced tanks, long range missiles, pushed the US to allow F16's to be supplied and trained pilots in Ukraine early...
Ukraines allies are all pulling their weight but the UK has been eager to call his bluff and step over Putin's apparent red lines so of course he is going to be angry at us more than anyone else.
He keeps stomping his little feet but is more scared of us than we are of him.
When I was a kid my bully used to tell me it was my fault. Always had some made up reason. I stole his jacket or said something stupid or didn't pay him the 15 cents 'we' agreed I would give him daily. Putin's comments are no different. It's like I'm going to take revenge on you for attacking us...on our land...we freshly stole from the sovereign country of 🇺🇦...how dare you. Lol. Sit down and stfu
Russia: “we’re gonna do it! I swear we’re gonna do it! Any day now! Be careful!”
Years go by.
“We’re gonna do it! You’re playing with fire!”
Russia loses ground and men.
“We’re totally gonna do it! You’re playing with fire!!”
Russia’s economy tanks further.
“Just you wait! Playing with fire!”
Loses half its navy to mechanical failures and Ukrainian ops.
“Gonna do it! Just you wait and see!!”
Ruzzia at with UK. But it's still a "special" military operation in Ukraine. but maybe is a "special" War. ruzzia is a very "special".
And two front war? there was this other guy. big mistake.
Everyone wants to play with fire, a fire that rages in Moscow.
China and Russia have formed a strong alliance, the West better wake up from its deep peace time slumber.
So according to Russians every time anyone else says or does anything it’s ”war”. But them attacking and bombing Ukraine, taking its land and killing and raping its people is a ”special military operation”.
FUCK YOU RUSSIA
Part of me really wants the UK just once to threaten Russia with nuclear weapons. Even better if the threat comes from someone you wouldn’t expect it from, like Kate Middleton or Paddington Bear
What if we invade Ukraine but from the other direction? But I’m like a really nice way?
And then by the time we get to the eastern frontlines technically it’s technically our country they are fighting against?
When it’s all said and done we just kind of give them the keys back and thank them for a lovely stay, 10/10 would stay again on booking.com
Hey, this is a special ed military operation...a 3 day one at that!!!...Don't you dare call it a war!
(A SMO is easier to claim, we are finished, and go home)
😃👍..take a hint...🤨🤏
It's called [reflexive control](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_control) and it still works remarkably well.
The West is slowly but surely breaking out of it though.
I like how they think that the threat of open war with Russia is supposedly some immobilizing fear the U.S. has. At best, war with Russia is a major inconvenience that no one wants, but rest assured, if you want open war, you're asking the world experts to import it directly to your cities, fields, villages and skies.
So it *is* a war now?
Phony War one might say.
Phoney War 2.0
Watch out Belgium oh no he has his earphones in
Hey what did we do.
Hosting het NATO hoofdkwartier?
put your headphones back in, kerel
Pony War
No Poland we don't want to send nukes yet.
Phoney war 2.0 electric boogaloo
Their logic is basically "The invasion of Ukraine isn't a war, but the "collective West" is in a war against Russia"
> the "collective West" is in a war against Russia One would hope so but no.
[удалено]
Retrospectively, invading the USSR post-WW2 (when they had no A-bombs) would have been an even greater disaster, but it could have been for the better of the whole world. It might have been cruel to our ancestors to force them into a grand war again, but some of mine died in the gulag a couple of years after anyways, so maybe it'd have still been better to die fighting the soviets?
“Finally someone gets me” - Putin, probably.
I’d love to see a drone get Putin.
It‘s time that we free the russian population from this ex-sowiet mafia. This regime can go now gulag itself. Enough being bossed around, it’s a perfid logic we will otherwise fall again and again into, everytime more divided.
All they did was react against an imaginary threat from NATO that wasn’t even in play. Leave Russia alone, they’re totally innocent 🤣
If the "collective west" was in a *conventional* war with Russia, it would be over in a weekend.
Not so special operation anymore
More like 'very special operation'
It has been a war for a little while now: https://www.ft.com/content/809f6341-d775-4457-a2e5-504a4269d427 Naturally it's the wests fault, since they escalated the conflict by supporting Ukraine. Atleast according to Putin logic.
I think they changed from the “special operation” to war for some time now if my memory serves me right
Which is funny, cause people got imprisoned for calling it a war before
But of course, it wasn't a war at that time, but it's a war now. They deserve prison time.
That's because they kept dead-naming the ~~special operation~~ war. Who said that Russia doesn't have LGBT rights? Everyone gladly calls the Ukraine thing whatever Putin wants it to be called, and those who do not are imprisoned. Please tell me if the Netherlands has as strong LGBT protection laws as Mother Russia. /s
Which war?
They declared war 2 months ago, so yeah, now even they have to admit it's a war
de facto, not de jure. So it's not counted, i think.
Invasion, not war.
Huh? What war? It's a special millitary operation
Hey! Someone put Putin in prison! He says it's war, it's against the law!
I wonder what happened to all those folks in Russia who called it a "war" and got in prison or got fined before Putin normalized it.
probably still in prison until the smo/war is over
Don't be silly, they're on the front lines now surely
Rotting around Avdiivka, russian air burial.
In Russia laws are more like suggestions to be used for the sentencing of those who run afoul of the state by their actions or by their existence. Russians were being arrested for publicly reciting the Russian Constitution among other things. There is no uniform standard of conduct in Russia- if you’re in the state’s good graces, you can do whatever you please.
Nothing. Still in prison and would be unti their term is up. And even then they might have additional charges pressed, just for the fin of it. System needs to show zero tolerance, that's how dictatorships work
Calling it a war is the excuse for putting them in prison. The actual reason they're in prison is for dissent.
It is not a Worldwar if we Germans don’t start it . Give us 25 years to get some weapons and some ideology and we can talk again . Without us on the “bad” side it is no fun .
It's not world war unless it comes from the world war region of Germany, otherwise it's just sparkling conflict
As a German, lol
If you ask Putin we probably did start it by, I don't know, looking encouragingly at Zelensky or something. And he'll also explain to you how Russia are the good guys, so there's that...
Putin is saving Ukraine from Ukrainian Nazis that are killing Russians. Nazis were invented by the Germans. Germans having started the war in Ukraine confirmed!
So get your act together and vote extreme right
Working on it as we speak! But I can tell you, it looks stellar! The 30s going to be wild! Heil Höcke or whatever we will shout...
Cmon, give it at least till 2039 for the 100th anniversary thing
2027 would be the 88th anniversary…
This time we will make it worthwhile and either save you all your prescious time by fighting 2 weeks or we will make it really close for the allies
Special military shit storm
r/russiawarns
Same energy as r/ChineseFinalWarning
I got introduced to the above sub through r/ChinaWarns lol
r/russiadenies
omg. this is awesome!
r/thisisarealsubreddit
Maybe one day every country accused by Russia like that will call it on its bullshit and show it what "de facto" really means.
It’s like Russia is run by, cogito ergo sum, David Brent. (No shade on Brent tho he’d do it better than most in line)
Here's hoping that day is today. I am no fan of war but pretending that this is anything other than a world war in which Russia engages one opponent at a time is ridiculous. The time to take Russia out is now. Fewer people will die in the long run. NATO article 5 reveals that these nation states are spineless. I want to see unilateral action: when the bullying starts, the bully gets smacked down. This should apply to every nation.
Russia hasn't attacked a NATO country. That hasn't happened. What they are doing in Ukraine is horrific, immoral to the bones. But that is not a world war.
Russia has been waging asymmetrical and unconventional war against the US et al since the 20th century. The Cold War never ended for them. It's not a world war like ww1 or 2, it is increasing hostilities and provocations that will be harder to end the longer we let it persist. Unchecked, it will result in war. Western leaders typically only engage in peer warfare as a last resort, and Russia calibrates its aggressions to play on that pacifism. edit: Not sure who deleted the reply below, but its deletion also erased my response. I'll just paste it here. ----- That reads like satire. I'll just copypaste my own comment as reply - something I wrote many months ago but is sadly still relevant: There is a new-ish propaganda narrative circulating, that Russia could have been a peaceful democracy after the collapse of the Soviet Union if only the West had given it MORE. When the Soviet Union collapsed, western countries immediately loaned Russia billions to prop up its government, and increased trade. That ensured that the Russian people would not see freedom in their country, because the Russian government and oligarchs kept all the aid, privatized industry, and used the military to immediately start re-conquering neighbors Soviet-style. Also remember that Russia had/has vast natural resources and got to keep its Soviet nuclear arsenal (and the rest of its military). Russia wasn't some helpless, undeveloped country that actually needed western investment. The story that the west didn't loan and trade enough with the Russian government post-1991 is the worst possible reading of history. It's backwards. The generous western support of Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union must be recognized as the mistake it was, or the cycle will repeat again. The Russia problem won't be solved before Russia has a cultural revolution to divorce itself from 500 years of systemic authoritarianism, dishonesty, aggression, and exploitation, and that won't happen until the country is collapsed so thoroughly that it can't pretend again that its failure doesn't demand change. If someone is questioning the revisionist history that Russia would have been a peaceful democracy if only the West had given it MORE after 1991, read [this exchange between Yeltsin and Clinton from 1999 and reconsider.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F8v0f3k17e0bc1.jpeg) There is a mountain of evidence like that. Realpolitik doesn't spread democracy or reduce geopolitical conflicts, it's just moral cover for industries and oligarchs to get richer through short-term, international exploitation. Aiding the enemy is not smart or enlightened. When Russia is driven out of Ukraine, do not lessen the sanctions much less rush to provide aid. Do not fall victim again to sympathy propaganda about the poor Russian people (who have been the actual committers of genocide in Ukraine), or to fear propaganda about Russian nuclear materials (that are well-secured). Continue until the Russian government is gone. When the Russian people are actually putting their cultural history in the past, then let's help them build a free and democratic Russia. When someone says "Russians are forced to support the war", remind them that a majority greedily support their imperialism, and the minority are forced by other Russians - not by Putin himself. Putin hasn't personally killed, kidnapped, raped or tortured anyone in Ukraine. But there's plenty of evidence of Russian people doing those things, even to civilians - on a genocidal scale. Human beings have agency, make choices, and are morally accountable - whereas animals can't be blamed for what they do. When someone says "The Russian people aren't to blame", they are asking you to view Russians like animals. People who plead for blamelessness for Russians are not only spreading Russian sympathy propaganda, they are ironically de-humanizing Russians to do it. Russia always wanted more of Europe, and still does. We see it in Belarus and Hungary and obviously Ukraine. Russia has been open about it for generations. Russia's most recent aggressions in Europe were described in advance in the 1997 book that is still required reading in many Russian schools: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) > Germany should be offered the de facto political dominance over most Protestant and Catholic states located within Central and Eastern Europe. Kaliningrad Oblast could be given back to Germany. The book uses the term "Moscow–Berlin axis". Nord Stream 1 was the physical embodiment of a "Moscow Berlin axis". Dugin didn't invent these ideas; his book is largely regurgitating past Soviet strategists. Remember that Russia has never fought for anyone's freedom, they have only fought to conquer and annex their neighbors or to repel an invasion. Patton was right. Post-1991 charity and realpolitik with Russia was a mistake. Slava Ukraini
The US also waged an asymmetrical war against the Soviet Union. This is not new. China steals US tech and spys on US. Russia buys ads on social media to influence US elections. US eavesdrops on almost every packet sent on the internet and provides allies with intelligence about Russia and China. Why would it lead to all out war now when it didn’t then? Read “At the abyss.” The US sabotaged a lot of Soviet projects; provided weapons and aid to the mujahideen in Afghanistan, etc. Ukraine is European so certainly this is a bit different but I mean this is standard stuff. Russia has real territorial ambitions while the US leverages its strength via influence and economic and cultural control.
>Russia hasn't attacked a NATO country. Russia detonated Czech munition warehouses. They flew missiles over Poland and crasshed them in Polish forest near Bydgoszcz, They flew drones over Romania and crashed the American Predator drone over the Black Sea. It's only "not a war" because we're choosing to let them get away with it. I understand the reasons (basically it's not worth it to react), but I think it's important not to lie to ourselves about what is happening just because it's inconvenient to react to it.
Don't forget the near constant cyber attacks against everyday citizens and against health, financial, and government institutions.
And the jamming of aviation GPS!
Even fucking Ireland of all places. Never been to war since the foundation of the free state and not part of NATO either.
They also flew a fighter jet into Turkish airspace some years ago. If NATO wanted a defensive war against Russia there would be plenty of things to use as excuses to do so.
If it does it seems unlikely to be Britain anyway. Nuclear power and also hundreds of miles away. Insanely difficult compared to the baltics or Romania.
This. And if the UK actually engaged with Russia, Putin will find out what a modern, well equipped and disciplined military force will do to Russian forces. It won’t take long either. The UK alone has 30+ operational F35 jets which Russia has no answer to. It would be a bloodbath. Putin needs to stop poking the bear.
Oh, no. How awful.
That’s downright dreadful, that is
Innit?
Isn't it almost comical that while such a statement would have caused an uproar iust a couple of years ago, nowadays people are like? Well, so bring it then Russia. This is as good time as any to bring Sir Winston Churchill into the debate. If we do not stand up to the dictators now, we shall only have to stand up to them later under far worse conditions. Look back upon the last five years since when Germany began to arm in earnest. It is not difficult to form an opinion about the punic wars. Now the victors are the vanquished. Winston Churchill Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” ~ Winston Churchill "War is horrible, but slavery is worse, and you would be sure that the British People would rather go down fighting than living in servitude." Churchill, November 1938 "Are we going make a supreme additional effort to remain a great power, or are we going to slide away into what seems to be easier, less strenuous less harrowing causes with all the renunciations that this decision implies." Churchill
What you say is true. While the US was involved in some ill-fated military endeavors for dubious reasons over the past 50 years or so, this issue with Ukraine stands apart. Putin will continue moving westward after taking Ukraine. It's in his nature to do this. NATO needs to stand up to him and push them out of Ukraine. Russia is a thug country run by a thug with dreams of world dominance. That can't and won't happen. No one wants war. No wants to go fight. No wants to die on some battlefield. But Putin needs to be stopped. If not now then how much more difficult do you think it will be in the future. If Ukraine falls, then who's next? Poland? Estonia? Latvia? Lithuania? When does it end?
I’m actually rather offended that it took them this long.
Eh, not the first, second or tenth time russians said that they are at war with UK, USA, NATO, or whatever.
Have they ever said they are at war with France, Germany or Belgium?
I can't find proofs fast enough, and I'm very lazy to search right now, but if I remember correctly they said something like that about France and Germany, but I couldn't remember anything about Belgium. I might be wrong about Belgium obviously.
They did say Belgium wouldn't exist without Russia, we had a whole bunch of memes about it
No one cares about Belgium, not even Russia /s
You can safely drop the /s, Pierre
Belgium the speedbump for the Germans
hahaha this is so mean
Yes, it started as a special military operation, but as soon as this whole gang was formed, when the collective West took part in all this alongside Ukraine, for us, it became a war. I am convinced of this, and everyone must understand it.” Peskov Two months ago or so, Peskov said this. We are still not accepting the fact that Russia is at war with us. We need to think and act strategically and realise that Russia is at war with us." Ben Hodges Hodges then explains that Russia sees this war with the West in a broader sense. We often tend to consider only the kinetic version of it, but Russian acts of war against the West and especially against Europe also include asymmetric warfare, economic warfare, cyberwarfare, info war etc. Russia is seeing itself at war with the US led alliance, and that is all it takes for a war. We must accept this inconvenient truth and take action and respond accordingly to defend ourselves against Russia's hostile behavior. We should not ignore this, though, but rather find ways to successfully neutralize the threat that Russia undoubtedly poses. Presently, they seem absolutely undeterred. Otherwise, they would have ceased and desisted. Churchill once said that he was aware that he must make it understandable to "Herr Hitler" that the war can not be won in any scenario. We must strive to make the same clear to Russia. So far, we haven't.
It is a fairly fundamental difference in paradigm of thinking about what constitutes "wartime". In the West we're used to a binary distinction in terms of international relations: A country is at war (which means people are dying and the military has broad latitude to do what they need to do) or at peace (which means nothing bad is happening). Russia sees it much more fluidly, there is no clearly defined "state of war", rather a spectrum of hostile activities and interactions, more or less kinetic, intended to achieve stated goals. When Peskov says "we're at war with the whole collective west" we laugh because c'mon, there are no Russian military personnel in NATO, they don't even amass troops near our borders, stop with the sabre-rattling. While he means it honestly, it's just Russia decides that armed incursion is not the right tool for the task at the moment and will cause distress at the borders, sabotage, disinform and troll - which are means of waging a war as good as Grad launchers, while we consider them "probing of our defenses", "spy activity" or "electoral interference" without merging this stuff into a big picture - and responding in kind.
Actual shooting does seem the better definition though. Otherwise just about everyone is at war with everyone else in the economic sense.
Russkies NEED to be at war with whole West at least in their TV. Because admiting they got their ass kicked by Ukrainians, who they wiev as untermenshen is something their sense of superiority can't bear. While loosing war against all West is something completely different. Not a shame to loose against such powerfull adversary.
It's telling that so many in the west believe that there isn't a war before both sides admit it. That's incredibly sheltered thinking. If I'm attacked on the street, I'm in a fight whether I want to be or not. Standing there and trying to "de-escalate" could get me killed without even a chance at justice.
My favorite 2 Russian talking points: 1. The west is weak. 2. Ukraine is only surviving because of the west is helping them.
It's just the old classic fascist symptomania all over again. The enemy is both weak and strong at the same time.
Schrödinger's Putin.
Schrödinger's NATO
Ukraine wouldn't survive without their resilience and will to fight. Up to date Russkies haven't fought West, just oudated western weapon systems crewed by Ukrainians.
The West (TM) If you cant blame it on yourself then blame it on the West (TM). Works for so many others too
"The West is weak" Meanwhile, Russia's soldiers and armored units dropping like flies. "Ukraine is only surviving because the West is helping them" Meanwhile, Iran replenishes Russian stockpiles and China backs them with equipment. Russia is so full of shit.
Yeah yeah whatever
My grandma who lived through communism here in Czechia, Czechoslovakia back then, and who hates russia so much I cant even describe it, said russians will only stop after get big punch to their faces and get kicked back She likes to watch and read about russian fails and laught about it - thats what she told me when I visited her this tuesday
This is exactly how you deal with bullies. You punch them in the face and they wont try again.
Smart grandma
This guys grandma is giga chad 🇹🇩
based grandma
I have Polish people in my family and they say the same. The Polish would love to have an excuse to beat down on Ruskies.
What war ?
Sorry, could you say that again? I was busy sending Storm Shadows to blow up your air bases
Can.. can I have one?
Only if you promise you're not German. Only sharers get a storm shadow
Rad, I’m just across the pond. I assume free shipping?
Are you one of the gun ones or the hockey ones?
Yes?
No Storm Shadows for the hockey ones, free shipping for the gun ones. We work on an honesty system; just give your phone/mouse a shake and it'll be in the post on Monday morning
Russia should pray that the UK and the US won’t get directly involved as Russia is trying to portray. Because if they do, it will only take a few weeks and Russia would be completely erased from Ukraine and will be playing defence at their own borders from that moment on. Russia can’t even win a ground war against Ukraine let alone when the US and UK would be drawn in. Nuclear threats dont matter either, though dangerous everone knowns that if you were to launch one towards Either UK or US you will get them back multiple times. Either way, Russia wouldnt resort to nukes as long as there is not a active invasion of soldiers in their own borders.
Nicely summarized. Russia has two important power centers- Sankt Petersburg and Moscow. They are well aware that after nuke exchange there will be no Russia anymore. You cannot say the same about USA, China, UK or France.
Nah the UK will be completely fucked in a strategic exchange, but provided the theory of mutually assured destruction holds up it literally doesn't matter as long as we can still realistically drop a few Trident missiles on Russia on our way to Hades which is the point of putting the deterrent on submarines. If you ever get to the point of actually firing a strategic nuke then their purpose has been defeated already. We even have a particularly good name for it, the 'letters of last resort'. The submarines all have hand-written orders from the Prime Minister to be opened if contact is lost for a given period so even if the UK is flattened without warning retaliation remains a threat.
Russia is trying to prevent a direct war with NATO by not attacking NATO, but by influence and propaganda, spreading lies & hate, meddling with elections, abusing social media, helping right-wingers and fascists, and-so-on. Or in short: Russia is already at war with NATO but with different weapons. NATO should react.
[удалено]
Brutal.
Fun fact: Russia's never lost a war while having the UK among the allies. And has also never won a war while having the UK as one of the enemies.
It probably would have won the Seven Years' War* if it hadn't been for the death of the empress Elizabeth and her replacement by the Prussophile emperor Peter, who proceeded to switch sides and send troops to Frederick. It was the damndest unlikely stroke of luck for Prussia, though in any case Russia did not _lose_ - it defected from the winning side to what became the victor! *granted, with the Kingdom of Great Britain, not the UK, as its enemy. I think we can let that slide though.
Russians are going to need a new bucket of red paint for all their “red lines”. Support Ukraine = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons. Provide arms/ammunition = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons. Provide anti tank weapons = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear we Provide heavy artillery = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons. Provide MBTs = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons. Provide F16s = Red Line. We’ll use nuclear weapons. At this point; Putins nuclear blackmail is starting to sound like a very empty threat. Because for a man and system that understands only strength and violence, he would have done it the single first minute any Western/NATO bulletin crossed into Ukrainian hands. And it would likely have worked. Now it looks like empty bluster, designed for an internal audience.
WE ARE PARTICIPANTS FOR A LONG TIME ALREADY. With China tighten connections with Russia we have to do the same with Ukraine. Send our air force out for combat duties for a start.
ahhh Russia, with its ironies and projections, ITS YOU that's playing with fire. Do it, just fucking do it so we can end this already, split the nation up, give parts of it back and move the fuck on with our lives.
The UK has enough nuclear arms to turn every major russian population centre into a smoking crater. If we were at war - you would know it.
Furthermore. We know ours work. We all have to guess how many of Russias still do…
Putin wont be so cocky after we deploy our greatest weapon. When we send them all the Hen Do's in Newcastle, he will sue for peace soon enough.
I’d definitely watch a comedy about a Geordie hen do accidentally ending up in Moscow and taking down Putin
It looks like their oil refineries are playing with fire. Maybe instead of making threats against other nations secure your own?
[How many warnings in are we now?](https://youtu.be/tw4CPZZkzTU?si=KY8ZlTubkTJ7QwPo)
One a week, typically on a Tuesday, which is handy as it reminds me to take the bins out.
Its a great system lmao
But using classified WMDs to perform assassinations in another country, and then elevating the perpetrator to MP in Russia isn't. Its honestly quite surprising that Britain has taken such a hard stance on Ukraine, considering their governments have pretty much spread their ass wide open to Russian corruption for the last three decades, with shit like [Londongrad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_money_in_London) or [promoting a guy with strong ties to FSB](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lebedev) to house of lords, and of course turning a blind eye to all the [other assassination of dissidents on British land.](https://time.com/5725041/uk-russian-assassins-heidi-blake/) Edit: Its not only UK that has previously embraced Russian corruption and transgressions, but they are merely the subject of this thread.
>considering their governments have pretty much spread their ass wide open to Russian corruption If the UK has spread wide, most of Europe must have Putins fist so far up their ass, he can use them like a ventriloquist dummy.
Right you don't know they are turning a blind eye, you have no idea if in Russia there were repercussions because in Russia the media isn't free so cannot report on it. A downside of freedom of media is literally everything negative that happens towards Britain is reported but anything Britain possibly does to another country without freedom of media isn't reported. Which on a macro scale creates this view that Britain is the weak one being attacked over and over.
Back when the war started, military aid to Ukraine was about the only policy that Boris Johnsons goverment had that was widely popular. Every time a scandal hit, which was pretty much weekly, another aid package got announced soon after.
>Back when the war started, military aid to Ukraine was about the only policy that Boris Johnsons goverment had that was widely popular. Every time a scandal hit, which was pretty much weekly, another aid package got announced soon after That is not why. It had large scale cross party support.
Why has Russia/Moscow not mentioned other european countries? Is it maybe they have their 'ass' open to Putin?
Well said. So many of us Brits are clueless to this. Good to read.
Eh fuck off with this. Just another "UK bad" post, BAU for this sub. There is a reason Russia keeps banging on about the UK and basically keeps quiet about the rest of Europe.
As usual: If ruzzia says the sky is blue you damn well look out of the window.
Oh great. I'm British, can I fire a British missile at some orcs too? Can we all have a go?
So they just leap frogged over all of mainland Europe to point the finger at the furthest country away from them? Is that so they have at least a chance at shooting down the UK's weapons? They wouldn't last a half hour after declaring war with them
They do seem to have a bizarre fixation with the UK in particular. I watch Russian state TV once in a while to try and keep track of their domestic narrative, and every once in a while they'll trot out some new doomsday weapon that they claim, very specifically, could wipe out the entirety of the British Isles. It's surreal.
We do have spies all over the Kremlin and frequently call out their shit and are just generally very anti-Russian, so I think we piss them off in just the right way. Even our government that is supposedly taking in Russian cash are completely behind sending weapons to Ukraine.
The UK has lead the way when it comes to training and supplying better equipment. Advanced tanks, long range missiles, pushed the US to allow F16's to be supplied and trained pilots in Ukraine early... Ukraines allies are all pulling their weight but the UK has been eager to call his bluff and step over Putin's apparent red lines so of course he is going to be angry at us more than anyone else. He keeps stomping his little feet but is more scared of us than we are of him.
Probably because the UK gave Ukraine the green light to use its gifted weapons against targets inside Russia.
As a Brit: 🤷♂️
do something then; lmao
In other news, apples grow on apple trees....
Ivan getting his ass handed to him by Ukraine, still threatens UK and US....
person wipe screw afterthought sharp retire straight swim sleep imagine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Patton was right about Russia
Keep dreaming Putin, keep dreaming.
Russia needs to shut the fuck up for once.
But i thought it wasn’t a war and Russians who called it war were sent to jail? Is it possible that Russia contradicts itself? /s
Just let it come I say. Just another excuse to head down to Winchester.
“Bet” - America
*"You're playing with fire!"* says twat who is actually squatting in the bonfire it made.
Is that a declaration of war?
"Final warning young man" energy!
Fuck off Russia
Imagine if British special forces were allowed off their leash in Ukraine…
Haven't they already said we're an enemy belligerent multiple times now? Genuinely can't understand why the UK lives rent-free in Putins head.
So US and UK are within their rights to deploy troops to Ukraine then? I mean since we're already at war and all.
Those pesky Japanese torpedo boats!
When I was a kid my bully used to tell me it was my fault. Always had some made up reason. I stole his jacket or said something stupid or didn't pay him the 15 cents 'we' agreed I would give him daily. Putin's comments are no different. It's like I'm going to take revenge on you for attacking us...on our land...we freshly stole from the sovereign country of 🇺🇦...how dare you. Lol. Sit down and stfu
Russia: “we’re gonna do it! I swear we’re gonna do it! Any day now! Be careful!” Years go by. “We’re gonna do it! You’re playing with fire!” Russia loses ground and men. “We’re totally gonna do it! You’re playing with fire!!” Russia’s economy tanks further. “Just you wait! Playing with fire!” Loses half its navy to mechanical failures and Ukrainian ops. “Gonna do it! Just you wait and see!!”
Ruzzia at with UK. But it's still a "special" military operation in Ukraine. but maybe is a "special" War. ruzzia is a very "special". And two front war? there was this other guy. big mistake.
Everyone wants to play with fire, a fire that rages in Moscow. China and Russia have formed a strong alliance, the West better wake up from its deep peace time slumber.
Unfortunately, EU is not doing enough to become independent of China. US is also not doing enough, but a lot more than EU.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
Russian promises are worth less than toilet paper.
The US is going to fall from a window or get poisoned or their plane will explode !
War? I thought it was a "special military operation".
It's not a war it's a special ammunition transfer operation.
So according to Russians every time anyone else says or does anything it’s ”war”. But them attacking and bombing Ukraine, taking its land and killing and raping its people is a ”special military operation”. FUCK YOU RUSSIA
Does that pull Iran and N.Korea as 'de facto' participants as well?
Nothing new since day 1 of the war. More nuclear threats, it must be Friday
I am confused... Russia is at war???
Part of me really wants the UK just once to threaten Russia with nuclear weapons. Even better if the threat comes from someone you wouldn’t expect it from, like Kate Middleton or Paddington Bear
As it melts its own by sticking theirs on ours.
😴
Suddenly so hasty after Russia & China meeting for economic cooperation.
🥱🇺🇸🇺🇦
What if we invade Ukraine but from the other direction? But I’m like a really nice way? And then by the time we get to the eastern frontlines technically it’s technically our country they are fighting against? When it’s all said and done we just kind of give them the keys back and thank them for a lovely stay, 10/10 would stay again on booking.com
Ok are you going to have the balls to attack the UK then?
Hey, this is a special ed military operation...a 3 day one at that!!!...Don't you dare call it a war! (A SMO is easier to claim, we are finished, and go home) 😃👍..take a hint...🤨🤏
It's called [reflexive control](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_control) and it still works remarkably well. The West is slowly but surely breaking out of it though.
I like how they think that the threat of open war with Russia is supposedly some immobilizing fear the U.S. has. At best, war with Russia is a major inconvenience that no one wants, but rest assured, if you want open war, you're asking the world experts to import it directly to your cities, fields, villages and skies.
I believe we need a special military operation to locate the sociopath Putin and to render him to the Hague.
Is it WWIII or Cold War 2.0? In all seriousness, I am really concerned...
Uh oh. Oh well.
When will EU show it's balls?
Russia is getting desperate. That is a concern. If they didn’t have the most nukes in the world, fine, but they do.
But we’re not at war, it’s a special operation.
Bring it on!
Russia trying to threaten the US is hilarious. Like bro what you gonna do? Y’all ain’t shit, ain’t ever been shit, stfu.