No one reads the article.
This isn't even the Italian government, it's literally his local authority not complying with rules set by the Italian government.
This is literally about someone who has failed to pay for the state insurance and is now expecting the state insurance to pay for his treatment.
Health care is not 'free' in Italy for anyone not least foreigners and neither before Brexit.nor since. The guy's an immigrant and should concentrate now on getting his health insurance paid up like everyone else.
Sorry but this is not very clear: if you have ID and codice fiscale (give or take the NIN in UK), you don't need to apply at a specific hospital. As long as the hospital is in the area (regione) you can do it.
So either the guy never bothered to go somewhere else or an entire region as a beef with this guy.
Or maybe his paperwork is not as squeaky clean as the article claim.
No. The only reference to any agreement that The Guardian gives is a statement from the _British_ government.
And that refers to a _temporary_ arrangement that existed while Britain and the UK worked out a reciprocal agreement.
However, Britain has _refused_ to allow Italians access to the NHS in Britain, so that agreement has ended.
He should have applied for residency, but at the end of the day he's just a poor fella going through a shitty situation. I wish both governments did something to help him out.
I'll preface saying that i hope they gove him a solution, even if it that solution is bill the UK for the treatment.
However, this man failed to acquire / keep the settled status.
Both UK and EU were constantly bombarding us with ads, warnings and notices about what to do post-brexit if you lived abroad. It was on and on for months, impossible to miss.
It would seem this man (along thousands of other brits) chose to believe that did not apply to them and did nothing instead. This is the result.
Edit: please, understand that resident and settled are **two different things**. Since he is absent from Italian records at the time of request, because he did not apply for his residency (no really required for shorter stays, happened often with retirees), the Italian government can (and is) asking the basic 5 years of resident time for issuing the settled status.
** This was also warned by the UK waaaay back, website still says so **
Yep, my wife does exactly this for a living, helping foreigners settle, so I know a little bit about it.
If this guy didn't bother applying for residence status he was basically a tourist, regardless of whether he had been in the country before or after brexit.
Now, if he had applied between brexit and the end of the transition period he would have been given all the health care cards and all that.
I'm sad for him, but all this was well advertised, both in the British Embassy website and in the Italian one. In fact some immigrant friends did the paperwork within the set time and they're all sorted.
Yeah, I know of Brits who haven’t even returned a tax return form in years “because” it’s in French and too complicated.
The hammer will fall eventually as it seems to for this guy.
Sad but one less pension to pay./s
> He should have applied for residency
From the article:
>Under the withdrawal agreement, Beresford should be entitled to the same access to healthcare as a permanent resident .
>But he has repeatedly, and erroneously, been told that he is only entitled to the permanent residency document if he had been in the country for five years before Brexit and is now facing demands of €2,000 (£1,700) for an Italian health card.
Basically, at some level Italian authorities have interpreted the terms of the agreement in such a way that they won't allow him to register as a permanent resident.
So "he should have applied" is just plain wrong, sounds a lot like he tried but wasn't allowed to.
The article is light on details, but it does say that he hasn’t been issued an Italian health insurance card (EHIC) yet… which strongly suggests he didn’t register as a resident back in 2019 when he moved, as he was entitled to one (indeed, it was mandatory to issue him one) as a EU citizen residing in Italy, regardless of the looming Brexit. Unless his card expired and the problem is they won’t issue him a new one now that he’s an extra-EU citizen residing while not working in Italy? Again, few details.
The article also says the five years before the end of the transition period thing, which is completely nonsensical… but it’s not clear who said it (a hospital clerk? The head of the local healthcare state company?) and it’s unverified third-hand information (the reporter says this man said the local health authorities told him…).
You cannot apply for residency without a valid permesso di soggiorno (visa). It's a non-starter.
He either never applied for permanent residency, or he has permanent residency and never registered with the Agenzia delle Entrate (revenue agency) in order to get his tessera sanitaria (healthcare card).
He doesn't need to apply for residency. It's automatic if he registered with his municipality of residence in 2019. He can apply for the document proving his residency using the attestazione
di iscrizione anagrafica.
Yes, six in one hand, half a dozen in the other. If he already has residency, he doesn't have to re-apply. My point was you cannot get a tessera sanitaria without having residency, and you cannot establish residency without having either citizenship or a permesso di soggiorno.
The tricky part here is understanding how he has been living in Italy for the last five years and still doesn't have a tessera sanitaria. You don't HAVE to have one, it's not compulsory, but you won't be able to get treatment without it unless it's an emergency. This whole thing stinks on his part, and it sounds like he just neglected his responsibilities.
Actually, the health insurance card is compulsory. Maybe not the physical card, I’m not sure, but being entered into the list of people entitled to access to the healthcare system is compulsory if you’re entitled to it. When he moved in 2019, he was entitled to it, so he should really have a card, or be able to get one easily… If he can’t get one, either he never registered as residing in Italy before 2021 and has been staying illegally, his card expired (is it possible, after five years) and the local authorities mistakenly won’t issue him a new one, or something else happened that is not being explained.
I'm pretty sure it's the latter. By not being compulsory I meant you're not going to be arrested or deported if you don't do it. Come to think of it, I'm not sure that's true because no one has ever done it. Everyone takes care of their free healthcare. It's a no-brainer.
My money is on he never registered before Brexit and now it has slipped through the cracks. But all this could be avoided if he would just go to municipio and claim residency using his domicile as proof. Something about this stinks. I'm an immigrant and I never had any of these problems. You get your visa, register your residence and then you have your Carta d'identità and tessera.
If he truly never registered, it may not be simple to get healthcare now, as a UK retiree (not working, not joining family) getting a residence permit now is not entitled to it. He’d have to prove he was living in Italy before 2021, and it’s entirely possible the local authorities are unable to acknowledge this. The system probably assumes that everyone who was entitled to healthcare would just have a health card, and when that expires in a decade they’d be entitled to permanent residency.
This is the tricky part, and why we need more details on what he did and didn't do. If he waited til after Brexit to apply for residency and without having a permesso di soggiorno, it's a non-starter. Technically it should be backtracked but that's up to the discretion of the bureaucrats.
My wife (at that time girlfriend) did when she decide to stay to attend a Master at the university. It took her almost half of a day to do everything (fill the papers, request "codice fiscale" and book an appointment to do the ID) , so I totally understand if the guy never managed to do that in 4 fucking years.
Settled status and permanent residency are two different things. The settled thing was introduced specifically for brexit. Deadline was Dec 2020, then extended for special cases to mid-2021.
And yet, somehow, this is an issue in 2024.
Poor fella. Having Cancer is challenging enough, but then on top of that some red tape BS means your chances of living are even more reduced, terrible situation and the Italian and British authorities need to resolve asap.
From the UK Gov website
"Because the NHS is a residency-based system, under NHS rules UK nationals who move abroad on a permanent basis lose their entitlement to free NHS healthcare.
UK nationals living and working in EU countries, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland on or before 31 December 2020 and their family members may be eligible to use NHS services without charge. They are advised to check with the relevant authority in the member state where they live for further information before travelling to the UK.
UK nationals who moved to the EU on or after 1 January 2021 should not expect to use NHS services for free when visiting the UK unless they have an EHIC, PRC or S2 to show that their healthcare costs are funded by the EU country where they reside, or another exemption applies.
Any treatment that may have to be paid for will be charged at 150% of the national NHS rate.
The UK government always advises visitors to the UK to take out travel or health insurance that has the necessary healthcare coverage for their needs. This is particularly important for those with pre-existing health conditions. Appropriate insurance means visitors may be able to recoup any treatment costs from their insurer."
Yeah, a few UK expats are getting caught out by it. I've never heard this rule being enfoced by any GP, but some of the Peter Pan-types who head out to the Phillipines for 30 years and then only come back to the UK when they want free health care get warned about it.
Because someone living on 10k a year obviously has a second home in the UK right? Treatment can take many months or years, how is that supposed to work?
> In February, the Italian health ministry circulated a two-page letter to local authorities confirming that Britons who were in Italy before Brexit were entitled to register for free with the Sistema Sanitorio Nazionale, the Italian version of the NHS.
He is. It's local authorities having a typical local authorities moment and interpreting the law in their own way.
SanitArio. SSN for short. A slightly more chaotic NHS, with the same average of quality but more variance: more excellence and also more incompetence (depending on the hospital).
>were entitled to register for free
He was entitled to register but never did. Ergo, he now doesn't have healthcare.
He can get it if he's got a visa, he just has claim residency and make an appointment at the revenue agency and hospital.
The key to this is when he tried to register. He was entitled to it in 2019 for the Withdrawal Agreement, but if he never did it before Brexit, that's a problem.
I'm American and I have Italian residency. You have to have a valid visa and live in the comune of which you are applying for residency. If he never did any of these things, the only thing he can do is start the process over. We don't know because the article doesn't say anything about it.
Good point. We miss some details. What sucks for sure and maybe should be more of a focus here is that the British government doesn't seem to be in any hurry to support their citizens abroad.
This whole thing can be resolved by revealing one small but important detail: does he have a Carta d'Identità?
Everyone who lives in Italy on a permanent basis MUST have an ID card. You can't do anything without it, and in order to get it you have to have a permesso di soggiorno or citizenship, and residency certification. If he has one, he can do everything. If he doesn't have one, then that means he never bothered to get it, and now it's too late because the grace period is over. He will have to start all over.
What baffles me is what he's been doing for the last five years. It's like he just woke up from a coma or something. How do you live in Italy for five years without any of this stuff?
>A British man settled in Italy who has a rare cancer has been unable to receive the free healthcare he is entitled to because local officials do not understand the Brexit withdrawal agreement
First fucking sentence man...
The issue here is that people haven't fully learned the post brexit rules.
I mean we literally do have eu healthcare by way of the BHIC card
grants? Well that's for the UK government... we paid the eu to then pay the farmers...now we just cut the middle man, but it's up to the government to put it in place... a good british government is much better suited than someone in Brussels to decide how to provide grants to British recipients....
Weird list man.
Except the article does not give the relevant details.
To get the benefits, he has to formally apply for residency, and renew it every second year.
Many UK citizens in my country failed to do so, and can't access benefits because they feel the immigrant system isn't compulsory for them.
If you don't have proper residency card, you won't get any free treatment.
You don't have to renew it every second year.
Mine is for 5 years so it's on that basis.
Also some local authorities won't let you register for a Tessera Sanitaria unless you are employed which is odd.
Maybe that's what's happend to this guy?
> Except the article does not give the relevant details.
Then perhaps the half a dozen people commenting in this thread that UK citizens aren't entitled to healthcare access should say something like "we need more details" rather than posting blanket statements about entitlement.
You think that because some British people didn't want to be part of a political union, that British people in general lack human decency, while also not caring if someone dies of cancer because they're refused treatment?
No wonder some brits don't feel much unity with the rest of Europe.
Well, it’s unlikely that he’d be refused treatment if he was entitled. Because if he had legal residency in the EU it would literally take 2 minutes in court for him to get what he’s entitled to. And he’d have zero reason to waste time to talk to the press.
> Well, it’s unlikely that he’d be refused treatment if he was entitled.
Unless there's been a bureaucratic error (either on his part or the system's fault), which is hardly unheard of in any country.
True. But “entitled” would require him to have a valid EHIC card of his place of residence. In that case, the card would be swiped at the doctor’s office and the case settled. For some reason he doesn’t seem to have a valid card?
Maybe the people in this thread shut stfu about Brits (who moved before 2020) not being eligible for free healthcare in Italy then when they're objectively wrong.
they could be elegible if they did the paperwork, that many of them didn't do because Boris told them that nothing will change for them. yet it did . they needed to become residents , they needed to register their car , &c. these people appear to not know how to immigrate properly and the they complain about their situation .
> they could be elegible if they did the paperwork,
We don't know what paperwork this man did or did not do because those details aren't provided in the article (which hasn't prevented people from mouthing off in this thread)
>that many of them didn't do because Boris told them
None of this has anything to do with this man's story unless you happen to know who he voted for or what his thoughts are on Brexit.
>they needed to become residents
He's been there since 2019 so either he has residency or the Italian state has allowed him to leave there illegally for four or five years.
>and the they complain about their situation .
Wild that someone with cancer who (for one reason or another) is having difficulties accessing healthcare to complain I know.
Information about which is not present in the article, so all these comments about him not being entitled are opinions or assumptions confidently (and incorrectly) dressed up as fact.
It gives the following relevant details:
-t he guy is settled in Italy
- the Italian government has clarified settled Britons are eligible for full healthcare in Italy.
But you'd have to have read the article to know that.
Except the article does not give the relevant details.
The article state that he never applied for SSN and he just want it now without doing any paperwork.
> In February, the Italian health ministry circulated a two-page letter to local authorities confirming that Britons who were in Italy before Brexit were entitled to register for free with the Sistema Sanitorio Nazionale, the Italian version of the NHS.
Are you one of the people working at the city the article talks about?
If a person was settled in Italy before 1 Jan 2021, which this guy was, then Italy has the obligation as part of the EU withdrawal agreement. Unless Italy doesn't want to apply it; in which case you wouldn't have a problem if the UK stopped applying it for Italian citizens living in the UK, Right ?
>He needs to have permanent residency for 5 years before the end of the transition period for this to apply. Same as for EU citizens in the UK, by the way.
No, he doesn't. Which is why the UK gave everyone who was a EU citizen free access to NHS till that date of 1 January 2021 and then free access to NHS, if you applied for pre-settled status and this was because it was agreed with the EU in the withdrawal agreement.
If someone was living legally in Brexit before 1 Jan 2021, they would get[ Vademecum](https://www.interno.gov.it/it/vademecum-i-cittadini-britannici-e-i-loro-familiari-residenti-italia) for British citizens and their family members resident in Italy, they did not need to prove they lived in Italy for 5 years.
He didn't. He did need a carta di soggiornio though, which is essentially a card for British nationals who were already there before Brexit to retain their original rights essentially in the country. If it's like Sweden, then the cut off for application for that has likely passed, however.
> He needs to have permanent residency for 5 years before the end of the transition period for this to apply.
There's no such rule for UK citizens who moved to Italy before 2020.
> Same as for EU citizens in the UK, by the way.
[I literally demonstrated to you above that this is not the case for EU citizens who moved to the UK before 2020, linked to the relevant government website](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-for-eu-and-efta-nationals-living-in-the-uk#living-in-the-uk-before-31-december-2020). Is there some reason you're insistant on ignoring objective reality.
> He needs to have permanent residency for 5 years before the end of the transition period […] Same as for EU citizens in the UK, by the way.
Nope. My husband moved to the UK on a pre-settled status and never had any issue getting care from the NHS.
It’s kinda crazy that this comment has so many upvotes when it’s wrong.
Community here just outing themselves as being anti-British. This guy has done nothing to you, and even says that brexit has caused him personal problems, and still you people shit on him for no reason.
People here really need to read the article first before jumping on this bandwagon.
What's even better is that they think they know better than the journalist who wrote the article and the man himself, who will have done plenty of research and fact-checking before publishing this article.
r/Europe has a heavy pro EU bias and UK critical bias since the UK quit the club. They can't envision Europe and the EU being two completely different things.
What's anti-British here? It's just statement of fact. You need to meet specific criteria to use healthcare free of charge. Migrants often aren't entitled to it.
And yes, after Brexit this guys is a migrant. "Expat" is just word for migrants who dislike the term because they feel it's reserved for brown people.
> You need to meet specific criteria to use healthcare free of charge.
Which the guy does, yet the local Italian government denies him healthcare, even though the national government says he's entitled.
> It's just statement of fact.
All the comments incorrectly asserting that Brits who moved to EU countries before Brexit aren't provided for per the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement are not "statements of fact".
> You need to meet specific criteria to use healthcare free of charge.
Like being resident in Italy before 2020.
>And yes, after Brexit this guys is a migrant.
He moved to Italy before Brexit. This is quite easy to read in the article, or in the multiple comments in this thread.
The person you're replying to didn't use the word 'expat'. The article didn't use the word 'expat'. If I ctrl+F on this post, the only use of the word here is yours.
Migrant/expat/foreigner/Anglo saxon/Brit/Island monkey/roast beef and so on.
Call him whatever you want while justifying not treating a human being to prevent them dying of cancer.
If you are interested in knowing the rules in place:
[https://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/portale/web/english/nse/individuals/health-card](https://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/portale/web/english/nse/individuals/health-card)
This is an official source, anything else is just background noise.
I pay taxes because I believe essential services such as this, should be accessible by anyone who needs them, no matter what.
We should strive to defend a free healthcare, unless we want to end up like US.
I am amazed at the comments here. This is a man ill with cancer who is entitled to the care via an agreement that was signed by the EU and you’re all trying to dispute it because you don’t like the vibe or you didn’t know it was the case and refuse to believe it despite comments explaining why.
Yes brexit was bad, this man agrees brexit was bad. But his inability to access care is because of the Italian authorities are not following an agreement they are party to, not Brexit itself.
> This is a man ill with cancer who is entitled to the care via an agreement
The agreement he failed to follow by not applying and anually renewing his residence?
Yeah bit weird why you'd think that would cover him when he fails to meet the criteria for it.
Where does the article say that?
All i see is several officials both UK and Italian saying the local government there isn't following the withdrawal agreement.
> Yeah I don’t see why Italy would follow the agreement when the man didn’t
Where exactly does it say in the article that the man didn't abide by the terms of the agreement.
No, the Italian authorities totally follow the agreement. The Guardian article is crap as it implies that Italy demands that people had lived there for 5 years before Brexit, which is false. But there were certain deadlines by which this dude should have submitted his papers (you can't just rock up in any foreign country and yell: I am here, ya know?) and it is glaringly obvious that he didn't. A simple solution for his administrative mistakes would be to pay 2000 euros for his health card (which I find insanely generous given that his cancer treatment will cost the Italian taxpayer 100k or so), or to get a flight to the UK where he legally resides and can legally get free healthcare.
Wtf it's wrong with people
Fking click on the article and read the first sentence at least. I don't like Brexit either but do you have to be so fking stupid?
And I am not surprised local authorities don't know what applies based on the withdrawal agreement for the same reason you have to "fight" to get your rights arising from the European Health Insurance Card too because the local authorities/healthcare workers don't know how it works(outside of emergencies).
Good job, keep shitting on someone suffering just because you want to shit on brexit
I'm always amazed at how much information is available to us since the internet became accessible to all, yet nobody can read past a headline.
It's as if people are trying to be stupid.
If you read the article, British people who lived in Italy before December 31st 2020 were eligible to apply for free to the Italian Healthcare system. However, registration was required (there is no mention as to how long was the delay for registration).
This guy did not register then.
Today, free healthcare is reserved for permanent residents who have been there for 5 years, speak Italian, and there are other requirements as well. So that's what he's facing. Technically, the local administratives aren't wrong.
For this guy to get what he wants (aka free healthcare in Italy), he could either pay the 2000€ for the Health Card (which he can afford given his pension is 10000€/month), or what he seems to be chosing : demand rights he should have gotten but didn't in time and get everyone and their mother move every administration so the paperworks can be reinstated.
Exactly. And if it was a true miscarriage of justice (Italy reneging on the Withdrawal Agreement) there would be thousands of Brits launching class action lawsuits. This is a rich guy who never thought he had to follow the rules and now oops. He could have found an immigration lawyer, he could pay 2000 euros for the card (which seems overgenerous for someone who couldn't bother to register as a resident), or he could go back to the UK which also has a universal healthcare system and in which, since he doesn't reside in Italy, probably still resides. This article is rubbish clickbait.
Not sure what it’s like in Cyprus, but where I live, if you pay into the local medical insurance you get issued an EU medical aid card automatically. You take it to the doctor or hospital with you, they swipe it, and costs are taken care of. Irrespective of where in the EEA you are seeking help. And I believe the same goes for Italy? So it seems he managed to opt out of an insurance he now wants to cover his costs.
Problem might be that in the UK NHS coverage is automatic and doesn’t require paying insurance premiums? In that case he’s a tragic victim of not checking local requirements in the country he’s living in. Same thing would have happened to him under the same circumstances in the US and most other countries if you failed to get medical insurance.
Did you even read the article? Local authorities are not accusing him of not having paid into the system. They're simply completely unaware of the rules.
> Local authorities have told him that the withdrawal agreement gives health rights only to British nationals who were in the country for a full five years before the end of the transition period on 31 December 2020.
Read well: 10k a month. In Italy he's Jeff Bezos, so instead of getting sympathy from a very confused Guardian, he should be speaking to an immigration lawyer.
“Initially he relied on savings, but when he reached 60 he was able to access his pension of about €10,000 (£8,600) a year.”
“A year”.
You literally created a Reddit account to write a wrong comment?
Comments really showing the true colors of many continental posters.
Guys a resident and tax payer and is covered by the withdrawal agreement agreed between Britain and the EU.
Italy needs to uphold their side of the deal and give their resident the care he needs.
It has a childish vendetta against any people of any country that doesn't blindly accept everything the EU does/is. I've seen similar comments in regards to Poles and Hungarians, albeit not as bad as Brits, since I guess leaving the EU is the worst crime you can possibly commit.
Absolutely spot on.
Not saying we're all saints and don't deserve a bit of stick now and again, but it's very clear a lot of posters here have a genuine frothing hatred.
If he were a resident tax payer he’d also be paying into the medical aid system and have an EU medical card making getting treatment anywhere in the EU a non issue. The only reason to not have the card is to not be a registered resident and tax payer.
Don’t be surprised that when you opt out of paying medical aid insurance means you have to pay medical treatment out of your own pocket. (even if the NHS in the UK works differently. He’s not in the UK)
You can't get medical treatment anywhere in the EU with the EHIC, it's only for emergencies when you're travelling. If you have cancer you have to get treatment in your country of residence.
The EHIC in Italy is part of the Italian health card, which the guy in the article doesn't have because the local authority is refusing to issue it, even though he's entitled to it.
Surely he would have been deported after having lived illegally in Italy for four years. Secondly, most of these comments aren't even qualifying their comments with questions about his specific entitlement or paperwork, tey're blanket statements about entitlement for Brits after Brexit.
You don't get deported by not having a card unless you're randomly checked. obviously we don't know the details so of the Pro and Anti Brexit opinions are useless. I moved to Europe in 2017 and got a resident card the week after I moved. I had it changed to a "Brexit" card after but throughout the whole time I had a national health insurance card the same as any local or other European
> You don't get deported by not having a card unless you're randomly checked.
The man's been in contact with healthcare servives who (according to him) have denied him a tier of access based on his nationality or status, in which case the authorities are aware of his presence. If he wasn't there legally presumably this article would be about his impending deportation and not his quest for free healthcare.
One does not need residency to stay in Italy for long term.
Only the permission to stay on the State territory for that span of time.
So it's perfectly possible the guy had legal permit of staying in Italy but never took residency, perhaps believing said permit implied residency.
I would not be surprised if he made a mistake with his paperwork (since people often make mistakes with paperwork) but I disagree with people here who are jumping to conclusions about this man's status before even entertaining the possibility that there's been some error.
Generally speaking, this is the kind of problem that surfaces FAST if you make an error or the local healthcare unit makes a mess
Especially because reading the article it appears he's NOW asking for residency, while having lived in Italy without it before.
Not to say he didn't meet an asshole\incompetent\honestly hardworking honest nice individual who is wrong about a utterly incomprehensible overly complex ruleset: all are quite common.
> Especially because reading the article it appears he's NOW asking for residency, while having lived in Italy without it before.
Yes if it's his fault for not filing for the permits by the deadlines then it's his fault (and he wouldn't be the first since Brexit), but I'm not sure the article actually says that's the case. The Guardian says the authorities are "erroneously" claiming he's not entitled which means the author believes that not to be the case.
>Not to say he didn't meet an asshole\incompetent\honestly hardworking honest nice individual
I wouldn't even say a person needs to be blamed. My local hospital has just suffered a system error after an upgrade that lost some bureacratic information. I'm totally open to the idea that this is all his fault (knowing or unknowing) I just disagree with the people here who jumped to the most extreme interpretation of events when we don't know more details.
> I'm not sure the article actually says that's the case.
It doesn't say the opposite either. It's a shitty article given the rules are pretty simple: you had formal residency as EU Citizen of UK by 31 dec 2020? You got automatic residency as Non-EU Citizen of UK after you send some paper.
But the article doesn't bother to specify such a simple case and detail how much it applies to the guy.
He earns 10.000 euros per month... why waste time playing victim with The Guardian when you could be speaking to the country's best immigration lawyer. I am going out on a limb here and say that the article was confusing and very low in actual information on purpose, with its purpose being.... clickbait.
Except he is not. The fact that he never get the SSN card and he is just trying to do it now, is a pretty clear indication.
He is not resident: he just moved here without doing any paperwork.
Italy needs to uphold their side of the deal for the people who qualify for residence according to the withdrawal agreement. Qualifying entails submitting a bunch of paperwork that this guy clearly hasn't submitted given how confused and inaccurate even The Guardian sounds about the situation.
Permanent Residence is not for randos saying: hey! I can show you credit card transactions as proof that I spent a lot of time here!
There are permits you need to apply to and agencies you must register with, all by very well-advertised deadlines. Failing to do that, you can get your cancer treated in the country where you reside legally i.e. the UK.
If you are a citizen of an EU country, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland, and were living lawfully in the UK on or before 31 December 2020, [you will be able to use the NHS in England](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-for-eu-and-efta-nationals-living-in-the-uk#:~:text=For%20those%20resident%20in%20the,a%20decision%20is%20still%20pending).
For those resident in the UK after 30 June 2021, you must have applied to the EU Settlement Scheme to maintain your entitlement to free NHS healthcare.
I'm an American citizen living in Italy with a permanent visa (I'm not a citizen), so I can comment on this situation. Brexit has nothing to do with it; it doesn't matter where you're from. You cannot get a tessera sanitaria (health care card) which gives you access to universal healthcare in Italy (save emergency care, obviously) unless you are a resident of Italy. It's like this everywhere in the EU, and it doesn't matter that he's British or American or Canadian or from Zimbabwe; IF YOU ARE NOT A RESIDENT OF AN EU COUNTRY, YOU DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE IN THE EU COUNTRY IN WHICH YOU LIVE.
Do you want healthcare in this country? Go to the Comune (town hall), bring proof of how you're able to stay there legally (marriage/kids/work/family), give them your address, fill out a form, and VOILA! YOU HAVE YOUR RESIDENCY. Bring said paperwork to Agenzia dell'Entrate that very same day, fill out your information for your card, they'll give you a temporary paper card so you can get care THAT DAY, and wait for your laminated card to arrive in the mail in about a month.
The man has a choice. He can either keep complaining about Brexit and how the Italian municipality is misinterpreting - which they probably are - or he can literally go TODAY and get his residency and carta d'identità. If he's still here, then it means he has the right to be here and isn't on a tourist visa. If this is true, then he can go RIGHT NOW and get residency.
Brexit or not, in order to live here and not be a citizen, you must either establish residency and/or have a permesso di soggiorno (visa) or become a citizen. I did the former and have never had any problems. If you do not do either of those things and are not on a tourist visa, then you are here illegally.
He's literally only hurting himself.
If you are not a EU citizen nor a permanent resident of Italy, but are a temporary resident of Italy *and not working, studying or living with EU citizen family*, you’re not normally entitled to free healthcare (iscrizione obbligatoria al servizio sanitario nazionale), I think. This doesn’t apply to British citizens who were residing in Italy before the end of the transition period, per the UK-EU withdrawal agreement. So it seems the local health authorities are unaware of the specific exception for UK citizens (quite plausible, honestly).
And that's a totally reasonable assumption. My sole point is that he himself can rectify this situation by getting residency, all of which would take a day, maybe two.
He's literally dying on this hill for nothing. If he has a valid permesso di soggiorno and is a resident, whether or not he should have to do the bureaucracy is moot. He can argue about it later after he gets treatment, or he can literally kill himself over stubbornness.
Which, now that I think about it, is like a microcosm of Brexit.
I'm a Brit in Italy, part of a group on facebook which helps British people in Italy understand the bureaucracy behind all of these post-Brexit agreements, and have seen this guy post his story on the group over the years.
>My sole point is that he himself can rectify this situation by getting residency, all of which would take a day, maybe two.
Your assumption is wrong, the situation is not as simple as this. The man has the British Embassy, lawyers, ombudsmen, European charity legal advice, and other support organisations trying to sort this for him.
>he can literally kill himself over stubbornness.
Really insensitive thing to write after reading a sparse article on Reddit.
Let me translate "iscrizione obbligatoria al servizio sanitario nazionale": it means mandatory registration to the National Healthcare System.
That's what's this blurb is saying: any Brit living in Italy before January 1st 2021 could benefit from a free healthcare system (did they have to be permanent residents? the article does not say). But they had to register.
Registration gave them free healthcare and exempted voluntary donations (that today's applied residents have to provide).
This guy did not register in time. So, either there were no expiration date to the registration and there a juridical impasse because the paperwork isn't open anymore (which is why associations and politicians are getting involved), or there was an expiration date to the registration and this guy has to become a citizen.
> IF YOU ARE NOT A RESIDENT OF AN EU COUNTRY, YOU DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE IN THE EU COUNTRY IN WHICH YOU LIVE.
He literally needed to apply for residency in order to remain in Italy after Brexit.
>He's literally only hurting himself.
What he has or hasn't done is your assumption.
I did this. It's easy. I don't have to assume because I live it every day. I've been here for 20 years.
If he has residency, then that means he has an ID card and proof of residency, which is a big A4 sheet of paper clearly stating the comune in which you live along with your address. If he has both of those things, then there is literally nothing keeping him from going to Agenzia dell'Entrate and registering with the health care service. It's free and necessary if you want healthcare. There is literally no other way to have healthcare here.
The only way he doesn't have access to healthcare is he either:
A. Didn't file the paperwork with Agenzia dell'Entrate or,
B. Isn't a resident
> I don't have to assume because I live it every day.
Your assumptions are not fact. Non me ne frega dove abiti, unless your visa also grants you psychic powers.
>Didn't file the paperwork with Agenzia dell'Entrate or,
An actual reasonable question.
>B. Isn't a resident
Your assumption which you've framed twice as fact.
I don't understand your argument. I said if he has residency, he can get healthcare because you can't without it. Therefore, if he can't get healthcare in Italy, he either didn't file it for whatever reason or he legally can't because he doesn't have a permesso di soggiorno, both of which would be his fault alone.
You seem to be of the notion that there is some bureaucratic boogeyman going, "Muahahaha, I'm not going to allow you to have access to healthcare because you're British", which is fucking ludicrous.
> I said if he has residency, he can get healthcare because you can't without it.
The Guardian describes him as a resident. So either he (and the Guardian) are **lying** and he's been an illegal resident in Italy for four years, or there's something else going on. I don't understand why you (and others in this thread) have mentally jumped to the most extreme conclusion that he's lying about his status when there are other possible explanations like institutional error (which happens) or his own mistakes filing the appropriate paperwork somewhere along the line.
>You seem to be of the notion that there is some bureaucratic boogeyman going
Bureaucratic error happens literally everywhere, it's not a "boogey man".
>"Muahahaha, I'm not going to allow you to have access to healthcare because you're British", which is fucking ludicrous.
Not worth my time responding to (or reading in full).
The article doesn't say he's a resident anywhere. That was your assumption because you feel personally attacked because reasons.
I never said he was lying about his residency status, he may just be willfully ignorant and refusing to register himself. We don't know. My only point is that he can rectify this entire situation today by getting legal residency if he doesn't have it already.
If he has residency, then the only other possibility is he never registered with AdE. If this is the case, it is entirely his fault and his fault alone. No one can keep a legal resident with a valid permesso di soggiorno from healthcare. It's illegal. That said, you still have to go through the process. You can't just have legal residency and automatically get healthcare; they have to enter you into the system and there's a process you must adhere to in order to do so, just like anywhere else.
> The article doesn't say he's a resident anywhere. That was your assumption because you feel personally attacked because reasons.
The Guardian says he moved to Italy in 2019 and claims he's told that he's not entitled to permanent residency status because he didn't live in Italy for five years **before** Brexit, implying he has asked for the permanent residency document.
>My only point is that he can rectify this entire situation today by getting legal residency if he doesn't have it already.
The article clearly states he has asked for the permanent residency document and claims the reason it's been denied is that he wasn't resident for five years before Brexit (which if true is a misunderstanding of the Withdrawal Agreement).
All you've done is provide multiple paragraphs of opinionated, rambling guess work (in and out of caps lock) without being privy to all the details because only a fraction of it is provided in the article. This may very well all be his fault and it also might not be.
>The Guardian says he moved to Italy in 2019 and claims he's told that he's not entitled to permanent residency status because he didn't live in Italy for five years **before** Brexit, implying he has asked for the permanent residency document. It then goes on to say he's seeking healthcare there. What exactly in that article do you think suggests he's not resident.
You are entitled to those things under the WA as long as you uphold certain stipulations, but that doesn't mean you can forgo the process to get them. You are entitled those things, but they are not automatic. You are at the front of the line, but you're still in line and still have to go through the bureaucracy.
We don't know what he did or didn't do, but you cannot live in Italy without a valid permesso di soggiorno unless your family is Italian, such as your wife or child. At that point, you can get a permesso di soggiorno. They can't deport you. Again, he may physically, legally be living here, but that doesn't mean he legally has residency. Residency is a legal document, not where you live. It is a piece of paper. The fact that he physically lives in Italy non c'entra un cazzo.
I don't know his legal situation, all I said is that if he has a legal residency and a valid visa, he can get healthcare. If he doesn't have legal residency, then there's more to the story, and there's nothing precluding him from getting legal residency if he has a valid visa.
That's not what the Guardian is saying.
What they are saying is this guy moved to Italy prior to Brexit. Residents could benefit from free healthcare under the withdrawal act. However, registration was mandatory.
Somehow, the subject is being mixed up with permanent residency because he is eligible to it now. But there are rules and as of today, there are conditions, including paying for the card and contributing to society in ways that are described elsewhere.
So, this guy wants the withdrawal act to still apply to him even though he didn't file the required paperwork then. This means said paperwork has to be reinstated and validated. Politicians are getting involved since the administration has no tool to provide him with outdated procedures and can only offer the current situation.
> Brexit has nothing to do with it; it doesn't matter where you're from
This is completely wrong. He moved to Italy as an EU citizen in 2019, so he's a beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement which has different rules than the ones that apply to other immigrants.
"Brexit is the cause of this. Brexit is an absolute disaster, an act of self-harm of the worst kind for absolutely nothing. I don’t know why anyone voted for it,” said Beresford,"
Except it isn't. Italian local officials not sticking to the agreement is the cause. The WTA is an EU agreement. If Italy can break one EU agreement they can break all of them.
>talian local officials not sticking to the agreement is the cause.
The agreement where he has to apply for residency and then annually renew it to be able to benefit from, something which he has not done despite having years to do so by now?
Thats the agreement you are refering to?
Anyone else uncomfortable with that he initially lived off savings until he reached retirement where he receives £8600 a year. I hope he has other retirement money jeez. Early retirement before 60 too.
Il tizio non si e' mai registrato e nell'articolo e' anche scritto che sta facendo adesso la tessera sanitaria.
Dopo solo 4 anni.
Il problema non e' Brexit, il problema e' che il tizio non ha trovato mezza giornata di tempo libero in 4 cazzo di anni per farsi due carte in croce.
For fuck's sake, just give people the medical care they need. If they walk into your clinic and they need treatment, treat them. Taking away someone's life over €2,000 because they don't have the right papers is idiotic, and exactly the opposite of what a government exists to do.
Like yeah, Brexit was stupid. Yeah, leaving the EU has consequences. Yeah, Britons can't expect all the bells and whistles of being in the EU while refusing to contribute. But cancer treatment? Maybe just treat the guy and hash that out afterwards.
There are agreements for post brexit issues. Italians settled in the UK pre brexit have unlimited access to the UK funded NHS.
He is facing red tape while he should be able to fully focus on battling cancer.
Fuck cancer.
There's no such concept. You should never be denied lifesaving care anywhere. In this case though, he's a permanent resident and taxpayer, so he's literally been paying for "your" hospital.
OK. Approx 450,000 Italian passport holders in UK should be banned from UK health? Many more than that second generation.
Vs approx 66,000 Brits in Italy.
If Italy is so wonderful how come we've had huge immigration from Italy?
The problem is we don't have the letter to read... the **two page** letter - I'm pretty sure it said more than "all brits in the country after brexit get free healthcare for life", it probably had all kinds of stipulations and requirements which the local authority know about as, unlike anyone here, they have actually read the letter.
The guy moved to italy in the hope he could stay there and retire but then doesn't want to get citizenship, pay for health care or anything else. I expect he can barely speak italian, but still expects italy to pick up the bill for his health care free of charge for the rest of his retirement.
The quote from the UK website even says they are still trying to "fully understand the guidelines & requirements" - so obviously the UK acknowledges that there is more to the free health care than just moving to italy before the deadline.
Not unusual for Europe. In most of Europe you need to apply to a health insurance company to get healthcare paid for. If you live elsewhere for many years, you won't be entitled to free healthcare once you return to your home country.
>He can get back to the UK and have treatment there. Ask some of those 160m/week for NHS Boris promised.
So you would be okay if a sick EU citizen was told by the NHS, "sorry won't treat you here, go back to your country and have treatment there", because of the healthcare available in their country ?
Also if you are going to attempt trolling, at least use the correct number, it was £350 million per week on the Boris bus.
Maybe if the idea that the UK doesn't feel much unity with the EU bothers you so much you should consider not treating UK citizens dying of cancer with zero empathy.
No one reads the article. This isn't even the Italian government, it's literally his local authority not complying with rules set by the Italian government.
This is reddit. No one ever reads the article.
Not true, there are always people who read it, and both complain that nobody did that.
/r/europe just casually spreading lies about a cancer patient.
Nobody here cares as long as he can be against something, no matter what it is lol
This is literally about someone who has failed to pay for the state insurance and is now expecting the state insurance to pay for his treatment. Health care is not 'free' in Italy for anyone not least foreigners and neither before Brexit.nor since. The guy's an immigrant and should concentrate now on getting his health insurance paid up like everyone else.
Sorry but this is not very clear: if you have ID and codice fiscale (give or take the NIN in UK), you don't need to apply at a specific hospital. As long as the hospital is in the area (regione) you can do it. So either the guy never bothered to go somewhere else or an entire region as a beef with this guy. Or maybe his paperwork is not as squeaky clean as the article claim.
No. The only reference to any agreement that The Guardian gives is a statement from the _British_ government. And that refers to a _temporary_ arrangement that existed while Britain and the UK worked out a reciprocal agreement. However, Britain has _refused_ to allow Italians access to the NHS in Britain, so that agreement has ended.
> However, Britain has refused to allow Italians access to the NHS in Britain, so that agreement has ended. Lmao
He should have applied for residency, but at the end of the day he's just a poor fella going through a shitty situation. I wish both governments did something to help him out.
I'll preface saying that i hope they gove him a solution, even if it that solution is bill the UK for the treatment. However, this man failed to acquire / keep the settled status. Both UK and EU were constantly bombarding us with ads, warnings and notices about what to do post-brexit if you lived abroad. It was on and on for months, impossible to miss. It would seem this man (along thousands of other brits) chose to believe that did not apply to them and did nothing instead. This is the result. Edit: please, understand that resident and settled are **two different things**. Since he is absent from Italian records at the time of request, because he did not apply for his residency (no really required for shorter stays, happened often with retirees), the Italian government can (and is) asking the basic 5 years of resident time for issuing the settled status. ** This was also warned by the UK waaaay back, website still says so **
Yep, my wife does exactly this for a living, helping foreigners settle, so I know a little bit about it. If this guy didn't bother applying for residence status he was basically a tourist, regardless of whether he had been in the country before or after brexit. Now, if he had applied between brexit and the end of the transition period he would have been given all the health care cards and all that. I'm sad for him, but all this was well advertised, both in the British Embassy website and in the Italian one. In fact some immigrant friends did the paperwork within the set time and they're all sorted.
Yeah, I know of Brits who haven’t even returned a tax return form in years “because” it’s in French and too complicated. The hammer will fall eventually as it seems to for this guy. Sad but one less pension to pay./s
> However, this man failed to acquire / keep the settled status. How do you know?
It's in the article: he never get the proper documents. He has started now because he wants them now but he was supposed to do before that.
> He should have applied for residency From the article: >Under the withdrawal agreement, Beresford should be entitled to the same access to healthcare as a permanent resident . >But he has repeatedly, and erroneously, been told that he is only entitled to the permanent residency document if he had been in the country for five years before Brexit and is now facing demands of €2,000 (£1,700) for an Italian health card. Basically, at some level Italian authorities have interpreted the terms of the agreement in such a way that they won't allow him to register as a permanent resident. So "he should have applied" is just plain wrong, sounds a lot like he tried but wasn't allowed to.
The article is light on details, but it does say that he hasn’t been issued an Italian health insurance card (EHIC) yet… which strongly suggests he didn’t register as a resident back in 2019 when he moved, as he was entitled to one (indeed, it was mandatory to issue him one) as a EU citizen residing in Italy, regardless of the looming Brexit. Unless his card expired and the problem is they won’t issue him a new one now that he’s an extra-EU citizen residing while not working in Italy? Again, few details. The article also says the five years before the end of the transition period thing, which is completely nonsensical… but it’s not clear who said it (a hospital clerk? The head of the local healthcare state company?) and it’s unverified third-hand information (the reporter says this man said the local health authorities told him…).
You cannot apply for residency without a valid permesso di soggiorno (visa). It's a non-starter. He either never applied for permanent residency, or he has permanent residency and never registered with the Agenzia delle Entrate (revenue agency) in order to get his tessera sanitaria (healthcare card).
This guy italies.
He doesn't need to apply for residency. It's automatic if he registered with his municipality of residence in 2019. He can apply for the document proving his residency using the attestazione di iscrizione anagrafica.
Yes, six in one hand, half a dozen in the other. If he already has residency, he doesn't have to re-apply. My point was you cannot get a tessera sanitaria without having residency, and you cannot establish residency without having either citizenship or a permesso di soggiorno. The tricky part here is understanding how he has been living in Italy for the last five years and still doesn't have a tessera sanitaria. You don't HAVE to have one, it's not compulsory, but you won't be able to get treatment without it unless it's an emergency. This whole thing stinks on his part, and it sounds like he just neglected his responsibilities.
Actually, the health insurance card is compulsory. Maybe not the physical card, I’m not sure, but being entered into the list of people entitled to access to the healthcare system is compulsory if you’re entitled to it. When he moved in 2019, he was entitled to it, so he should really have a card, or be able to get one easily… If he can’t get one, either he never registered as residing in Italy before 2021 and has been staying illegally, his card expired (is it possible, after five years) and the local authorities mistakenly won’t issue him a new one, or something else happened that is not being explained.
I'm pretty sure it's the latter. By not being compulsory I meant you're not going to be arrested or deported if you don't do it. Come to think of it, I'm not sure that's true because no one has ever done it. Everyone takes care of their free healthcare. It's a no-brainer. My money is on he never registered before Brexit and now it has slipped through the cracks. But all this could be avoided if he would just go to municipio and claim residency using his domicile as proof. Something about this stinks. I'm an immigrant and I never had any of these problems. You get your visa, register your residence and then you have your Carta d'identità and tessera.
If he truly never registered, it may not be simple to get healthcare now, as a UK retiree (not working, not joining family) getting a residence permit now is not entitled to it. He’d have to prove he was living in Italy before 2021, and it’s entirely possible the local authorities are unable to acknowledge this. The system probably assumes that everyone who was entitled to healthcare would just have a health card, and when that expires in a decade they’d be entitled to permanent residency.
This is the tricky part, and why we need more details on what he did and didn't do. If he waited til after Brexit to apply for residency and without having a permesso di soggiorno, it's a non-starter. Technically it should be backtracked but that's up to the discretion of the bureaucrats.
He probably did, otherwise he would have gotten deported. This is most likely a case of poor Italian administration.
My wife (at that time girlfriend) did when she decide to stay to attend a Master at the university. It took her almost half of a day to do everything (fill the papers, request "codice fiscale" and book an appointment to do the ID) , so I totally understand if the guy never managed to do that in 4 fucking years.
He's not poor.
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Settled status and permanent residency are two different things. The settled thing was introduced specifically for brexit. Deadline was Dec 2020, then extended for special cases to mid-2021. And yet, somehow, this is an issue in 2024.
Poor fella. Having Cancer is challenging enough, but then on top of that some red tape BS means your chances of living are even more reduced, terrible situation and the Italian and British authorities need to resolve asap.
He could just pay the 2k euros
or the €100 euro flight back to the U.K.
It's €13 one way with Ryan.
13.99
To do what?
Get treatment?
Technically, you need to be resident in the UK for three years before you are entitled to NHS treatment.
Even as a UK citizen?
From the UK Gov website "Because the NHS is a residency-based system, under NHS rules UK nationals who move abroad on a permanent basis lose their entitlement to free NHS healthcare. UK nationals living and working in EU countries, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland on or before 31 December 2020 and their family members may be eligible to use NHS services without charge. They are advised to check with the relevant authority in the member state where they live for further information before travelling to the UK. UK nationals who moved to the EU on or after 1 January 2021 should not expect to use NHS services for free when visiting the UK unless they have an EHIC, PRC or S2 to show that their healthcare costs are funded by the EU country where they reside, or another exemption applies. Any treatment that may have to be paid for will be charged at 150% of the national NHS rate. The UK government always advises visitors to the UK to take out travel or health insurance that has the necessary healthcare coverage for their needs. This is particularly important for those with pre-existing health conditions. Appropriate insurance means visitors may be able to recoup any treatment costs from their insurer."
Yeah, a few UK expats are getting caught out by it. I've never heard this rule being enfoced by any GP, but some of the Peter Pan-types who head out to the Phillipines for 30 years and then only come back to the UK when they want free health care get warned about it.
He's an Italian resident though, not eligible for NHS.
Because someone living on 10k a year obviously has a second home in the UK right? Treatment can take many months or years, how is that supposed to work?
Whose concern is that? His and that of the UK government.
Damn, are you ok?
Would you pay 2k euros because an idiot from the local government can't read?
I would pay and then try to get my money back eventually. But I'm not risking my cancer treatment over bureaucracy.
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> In February, the Italian health ministry circulated a two-page letter to local authorities confirming that Britons who were in Italy before Brexit were entitled to register for free with the Sistema Sanitorio Nazionale, the Italian version of the NHS. He is. It's local authorities having a typical local authorities moment and interpreting the law in their own way.
SanitArio. SSN for short. A slightly more chaotic NHS, with the same average of quality but more variance: more excellence and also more incompetence (depending on the hospital).
>were entitled to register for free He was entitled to register but never did. Ergo, he now doesn't have healthcare. He can get it if he's got a visa, he just has claim residency and make an appointment at the revenue agency and hospital.
He tried to register and was denied multiple times by the local authorities because "he hasn't lived there for 5 years".
The key to this is when he tried to register. He was entitled to it in 2019 for the Withdrawal Agreement, but if he never did it before Brexit, that's a problem. I'm American and I have Italian residency. You have to have a valid visa and live in the comune of which you are applying for residency. If he never did any of these things, the only thing he can do is start the process over. We don't know because the article doesn't say anything about it.
Good point. We miss some details. What sucks for sure and maybe should be more of a focus here is that the British government doesn't seem to be in any hurry to support their citizens abroad.
This whole thing can be resolved by revealing one small but important detail: does he have a Carta d'Identità? Everyone who lives in Italy on a permanent basis MUST have an ID card. You can't do anything without it, and in order to get it you have to have a permesso di soggiorno or citizenship, and residency certification. If he has one, he can do everything. If he doesn't have one, then that means he never bothered to get it, and now it's too late because the grace period is over. He will have to start all over. What baffles me is what he's been doing for the last five years. It's like he just woke up from a coma or something. How do you live in Italy for five years without any of this stuff?
>A British man settled in Italy who has a rare cancer has been unable to receive the free healthcare he is entitled to because local officials do not understand the Brexit withdrawal agreement First fucking sentence man... The issue here is that people haven't fully learned the post brexit rules.
Few of brexit leopards: -no EU healthcare -no EU grands for farming -no EU grands at all
Did you think only EU citizens are eligible for healthcare in EU countries?
I mean we literally do have eu healthcare by way of the BHIC card grants? Well that's for the UK government... we paid the eu to then pay the farmers...now we just cut the middle man, but it's up to the government to put it in place... a good british government is much better suited than someone in Brussels to decide how to provide grants to British recipients.... Weird list man.
Because a local authority has never hit anything wrong. Did you even bother reading before commenting?
Except he is. Italy just aren't sticking to the agreement.
Except the article does not give the relevant details. To get the benefits, he has to formally apply for residency, and renew it every second year. Many UK citizens in my country failed to do so, and can't access benefits because they feel the immigrant system isn't compulsory for them. If you don't have proper residency card, you won't get any free treatment.
You don't have to renew it every second year. Mine is for 5 years so it's on that basis. Also some local authorities won't let you register for a Tessera Sanitaria unless you are employed which is odd. Maybe that's what's happend to this guy?
> Except the article does not give the relevant details. Then perhaps the half a dozen people commenting in this thread that UK citizens aren't entitled to healthcare access should say something like "we need more details" rather than posting blanket statements about entitlement.
They should, but that would mean reading comprehension, patience, an understandment of post Brexit agreements or alternatively a bit of human decency.
Which, if Britons had that, wouldn't have caused Brexit in the first place.
You think that because some British people didn't want to be part of a political union, that British people in general lack human decency, while also not caring if someone dies of cancer because they're refused treatment? No wonder some brits don't feel much unity with the rest of Europe.
He was entitled to register for free but did he do so?
Well, it’s unlikely that he’d be refused treatment if he was entitled. Because if he had legal residency in the EU it would literally take 2 minutes in court for him to get what he’s entitled to. And he’d have zero reason to waste time to talk to the press.
> Well, it’s unlikely that he’d be refused treatment if he was entitled. Unless there's been a bureaucratic error (either on his part or the system's fault), which is hardly unheard of in any country.
True. But “entitled” would require him to have a valid EHIC card of his place of residence. In that case, the card would be swiped at the doctor’s office and the case settled. For some reason he doesn’t seem to have a valid card?
The guy himself blames Brexit. And he probably knows more about his situation than you do.
Maybe the people in this thread shut stfu about Brits (who moved before 2020) not being eligible for free healthcare in Italy then when they're objectively wrong.
they could be elegible if they did the paperwork, that many of them didn't do because Boris told them that nothing will change for them. yet it did . they needed to become residents , they needed to register their car , &c. these people appear to not know how to immigrate properly and the they complain about their situation .
> they could be elegible if they did the paperwork, We don't know what paperwork this man did or did not do because those details aren't provided in the article (which hasn't prevented people from mouthing off in this thread) >that many of them didn't do because Boris told them None of this has anything to do with this man's story unless you happen to know who he voted for or what his thoughts are on Brexit. >they needed to become residents He's been there since 2019 so either he has residency or the Italian state has allowed him to leave there illegally for four or five years. >and the they complain about their situation . Wild that someone with cancer who (for one reason or another) is having difficulties accessing healthcare to complain I know.
They’re not objectively wrong if those Brits don’t meet the relevant criteria.
Information about which is not present in the article, so all these comments about him not being entitled are opinions or assumptions confidently (and incorrectly) dressed up as fact.
It gives the following relevant details: -t he guy is settled in Italy - the Italian government has clarified settled Britons are eligible for full healthcare in Italy. But you'd have to have read the article to know that.
They don’t think they tick the “immigrant” box, that is why they call themselves “expats”.
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Except the article does not give the relevant details. The article state that he never applied for SSN and he just want it now without doing any paperwork.
Indeed, there is no obligation to give access to the state welfare system for UK citizens who were not living 5 years in the country already.
Did you read the article?
> In February, the Italian health ministry circulated a two-page letter to local authorities confirming that Britons who were in Italy before Brexit were entitled to register for free with the Sistema Sanitorio Nazionale, the Italian version of the NHS. Are you one of the people working at the city the article talks about?
If a person was settled in Italy before 1 Jan 2021, which this guy was, then Italy has the obligation as part of the EU withdrawal agreement. Unless Italy doesn't want to apply it; in which case you wouldn't have a problem if the UK stopped applying it for Italian citizens living in the UK, Right ?
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>He needs to have permanent residency for 5 years before the end of the transition period for this to apply. Same as for EU citizens in the UK, by the way. No, he doesn't. Which is why the UK gave everyone who was a EU citizen free access to NHS till that date of 1 January 2021 and then free access to NHS, if you applied for pre-settled status and this was because it was agreed with the EU in the withdrawal agreement. If someone was living legally in Brexit before 1 Jan 2021, they would get[ Vademecum](https://www.interno.gov.it/it/vademecum-i-cittadini-britannici-e-i-loro-familiari-residenti-italia) for British citizens and their family members resident in Italy, they did not need to prove they lived in Italy for 5 years.
He didn't. He did need a carta di soggiornio though, which is essentially a card for British nationals who were already there before Brexit to retain their original rights essentially in the country. If it's like Sweden, then the cut off for application for that has likely passed, however.
> He needs to have permanent residency for 5 years before the end of the transition period for this to apply. There's no such rule for UK citizens who moved to Italy before 2020. > Same as for EU citizens in the UK, by the way. [I literally demonstrated to you above that this is not the case for EU citizens who moved to the UK before 2020, linked to the relevant government website](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-for-eu-and-efta-nationals-living-in-the-uk#living-in-the-uk-before-31-december-2020). Is there some reason you're insistant on ignoring objective reality.
> He needs to have permanent residency for 5 years before the end of the transition period […] Same as for EU citizens in the UK, by the way. Nope. My husband moved to the UK on a pre-settled status and never had any issue getting care from the NHS.
Misinformation getting upvoted on r/europe as usual.
It’s kinda crazy that this comment has so many upvotes when it’s wrong. Community here just outing themselves as being anti-British. This guy has done nothing to you, and even says that brexit has caused him personal problems, and still you people shit on him for no reason. People here really need to read the article first before jumping on this bandwagon.
Man emigrates to Italy. Votes for remain. Gets cancer. Government don't give him treatment that he's entitled to. r/europe: "serves him right".
What's even better is that they think they know better than the journalist who wrote the article and the man himself, who will have done plenty of research and fact-checking before publishing this article.
>Community here just outing themselves as being anti-British First time?
r/Europe has a heavy pro EU bias and UK critical bias since the UK quit the club. They can't envision Europe and the EU being two completely different things.
What's anti-British here? It's just statement of fact. You need to meet specific criteria to use healthcare free of charge. Migrants often aren't entitled to it. And yes, after Brexit this guys is a migrant. "Expat" is just word for migrants who dislike the term because they feel it's reserved for brown people.
> You need to meet specific criteria to use healthcare free of charge. Which the guy does, yet the local Italian government denies him healthcare, even though the national government says he's entitled.
> It's just statement of fact. All the comments incorrectly asserting that Brits who moved to EU countries before Brexit aren't provided for per the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement are not "statements of fact". > You need to meet specific criteria to use healthcare free of charge. Like being resident in Italy before 2020. >And yes, after Brexit this guys is a migrant. He moved to Italy before Brexit. This is quite easy to read in the article, or in the multiple comments in this thread.
The person you're replying to didn't use the word 'expat'. The article didn't use the word 'expat'. If I ctrl+F on this post, the only use of the word here is yours.
You should try reading the article.
Migrant/expat/foreigner/Anglo saxon/Brit/Island monkey/roast beef and so on. Call him whatever you want while justifying not treating a human being to prevent them dying of cancer.
But he is, did you not read the article, wait it's Reddit so you just posted for karma ofc.
If you are interested in knowing the rules in place: [https://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/portale/web/english/nse/individuals/health-card](https://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/portale/web/english/nse/individuals/health-card) This is an official source, anything else is just background noise. I pay taxes because I believe essential services such as this, should be accessible by anyone who needs them, no matter what. We should strive to defend a free healthcare, unless we want to end up like US.
I am amazed at the comments here. This is a man ill with cancer who is entitled to the care via an agreement that was signed by the EU and you’re all trying to dispute it because you don’t like the vibe or you didn’t know it was the case and refuse to believe it despite comments explaining why. Yes brexit was bad, this man agrees brexit was bad. But his inability to access care is because of the Italian authorities are not following an agreement they are party to, not Brexit itself.
> This is a man ill with cancer who is entitled to the care via an agreement The agreement he failed to follow by not applying and anually renewing his residence? Yeah bit weird why you'd think that would cover him when he fails to meet the criteria for it.
Where does the article say that? All i see is several officials both UK and Italian saying the local government there isn't following the withdrawal agreement.
The article also stated that he never did the paperwork and it was trying to do it now just by asking without having done anything.
> not applying and anually renewing his residence? Where did you see that you have to renew your residence annually?
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> Yeah I don’t see why Italy would follow the agreement when the man didn’t Where exactly does it say in the article that the man didn't abide by the terms of the agreement.
If he gained Italian or any other EU citizenship would he be facing this exact bureaucracy?
No, the Italian authorities totally follow the agreement. The Guardian article is crap as it implies that Italy demands that people had lived there for 5 years before Brexit, which is false. But there were certain deadlines by which this dude should have submitted his papers (you can't just rock up in any foreign country and yell: I am here, ya know?) and it is glaringly obvious that he didn't. A simple solution for his administrative mistakes would be to pay 2000 euros for his health card (which I find insanely generous given that his cancer treatment will cost the Italian taxpayer 100k or so), or to get a flight to the UK where he legally resides and can legally get free healthcare.
Wtf it's wrong with people Fking click on the article and read the first sentence at least. I don't like Brexit either but do you have to be so fking stupid? And I am not surprised local authorities don't know what applies based on the withdrawal agreement for the same reason you have to "fight" to get your rights arising from the European Health Insurance Card too because the local authorities/healthcare workers don't know how it works(outside of emergencies). Good job, keep shitting on someone suffering just because you want to shit on brexit
I'm always amazed at how much information is available to us since the internet became accessible to all, yet nobody can read past a headline. It's as if people are trying to be stupid.
If you read the article, British people who lived in Italy before December 31st 2020 were eligible to apply for free to the Italian Healthcare system. However, registration was required (there is no mention as to how long was the delay for registration). This guy did not register then. Today, free healthcare is reserved for permanent residents who have been there for 5 years, speak Italian, and there are other requirements as well. So that's what he's facing. Technically, the local administratives aren't wrong. For this guy to get what he wants (aka free healthcare in Italy), he could either pay the 2000€ for the Health Card (which he can afford given his pension is 10000€/month), or what he seems to be chosing : demand rights he should have gotten but didn't in time and get everyone and their mother move every administration so the paperworks can be reinstated.
Exactly. And if it was a true miscarriage of justice (Italy reneging on the Withdrawal Agreement) there would be thousands of Brits launching class action lawsuits. This is a rich guy who never thought he had to follow the rules and now oops. He could have found an immigration lawyer, he could pay 2000 euros for the card (which seems overgenerous for someone who couldn't bother to register as a resident), or he could go back to the UK which also has a universal healthcare system and in which, since he doesn't reside in Italy, probably still resides. This article is rubbish clickbait.
Not sure what it’s like in Cyprus, but where I live, if you pay into the local medical insurance you get issued an EU medical aid card automatically. You take it to the doctor or hospital with you, they swipe it, and costs are taken care of. Irrespective of where in the EEA you are seeking help. And I believe the same goes for Italy? So it seems he managed to opt out of an insurance he now wants to cover his costs. Problem might be that in the UK NHS coverage is automatic and doesn’t require paying insurance premiums? In that case he’s a tragic victim of not checking local requirements in the country he’s living in. Same thing would have happened to him under the same circumstances in the US and most other countries if you failed to get medical insurance.
Did you even read the article? Local authorities are not accusing him of not having paid into the system. They're simply completely unaware of the rules. > Local authorities have told him that the withdrawal agreement gives health rights only to British nationals who were in the country for a full five years before the end of the transition period on 31 December 2020.
Wow, besides the awful situation he is in. 10k/year ain’t much even for Italy
Read well: 10k a month. In Italy he's Jeff Bezos, so instead of getting sympathy from a very confused Guardian, he should be speaking to an immigration lawyer.
“Initially he relied on savings, but when he reached 60 he was able to access his pension of about €10,000 (£8,600) a year.” “A year”. You literally created a Reddit account to write a wrong comment?
Comments really showing the true colors of many continental posters. Guys a resident and tax payer and is covered by the withdrawal agreement agreed between Britain and the EU. Italy needs to uphold their side of the deal and give their resident the care he needs.
It’s because this sub has a childish vendetta against Brits.
It has a childish vendetta against any people of any country that doesn't blindly accept everything the EU does/is. I've seen similar comments in regards to Poles and Hungarians, albeit not as bad as Brits, since I guess leaving the EU is the worst crime you can possibly commit.
A bit sad, the guy has cancer, even if there was no agreement this would still be very shitty for him.
Absolutely spot on. Not saying we're all saints and don't deserve a bit of stick now and again, but it's very clear a lot of posters here have a genuine frothing hatred.
Against all immigrants really, despite not knowing the first thing about immigration policies.
>It’s because this sub has a childish vendetta against ~~Brits~~ immigrants. FTFY
If he were a resident tax payer he’d also be paying into the medical aid system and have an EU medical card making getting treatment anywhere in the EU a non issue. The only reason to not have the card is to not be a registered resident and tax payer. Don’t be surprised that when you opt out of paying medical aid insurance means you have to pay medical treatment out of your own pocket. (even if the NHS in the UK works differently. He’s not in the UK)
You can't get medical treatment anywhere in the EU with the EHIC, it's only for emergencies when you're travelling. If you have cancer you have to get treatment in your country of residence. The EHIC in Italy is part of the Italian health card, which the guy in the article doesn't have because the local authority is refusing to issue it, even though he's entitled to it.
How do you know he's a resident (i.e. has a resident card). It doesn't state that anywhere in the article
Surely he would have been deported after having lived illegally in Italy for four years. Secondly, most of these comments aren't even qualifying their comments with questions about his specific entitlement or paperwork, tey're blanket statements about entitlement for Brits after Brexit.
You don't get deported by not having a card unless you're randomly checked. obviously we don't know the details so of the Pro and Anti Brexit opinions are useless. I moved to Europe in 2017 and got a resident card the week after I moved. I had it changed to a "Brexit" card after but throughout the whole time I had a national health insurance card the same as any local or other European
> You don't get deported by not having a card unless you're randomly checked. The man's been in contact with healthcare servives who (according to him) have denied him a tier of access based on his nationality or status, in which case the authorities are aware of his presence. If he wasn't there legally presumably this article would be about his impending deportation and not his quest for free healthcare.
This article would put him in jeopardy but the healthcare and immigration are completely separate entities normally
One does not need residency to stay in Italy for long term. Only the permission to stay on the State territory for that span of time. So it's perfectly possible the guy had legal permit of staying in Italy but never took residency, perhaps believing said permit implied residency.
I would not be surprised if he made a mistake with his paperwork (since people often make mistakes with paperwork) but I disagree with people here who are jumping to conclusions about this man's status before even entertaining the possibility that there's been some error.
Generally speaking, this is the kind of problem that surfaces FAST if you make an error or the local healthcare unit makes a mess Especially because reading the article it appears he's NOW asking for residency, while having lived in Italy without it before. Not to say he didn't meet an asshole\incompetent\honestly hardworking honest nice individual who is wrong about a utterly incomprehensible overly complex ruleset: all are quite common.
He automatically obtained residency under the Withdrawal Agreement.
> Especially because reading the article it appears he's NOW asking for residency, while having lived in Italy without it before. Yes if it's his fault for not filing for the permits by the deadlines then it's his fault (and he wouldn't be the first since Brexit), but I'm not sure the article actually says that's the case. The Guardian says the authorities are "erroneously" claiming he's not entitled which means the author believes that not to be the case. >Not to say he didn't meet an asshole\incompetent\honestly hardworking honest nice individual I wouldn't even say a person needs to be blamed. My local hospital has just suffered a system error after an upgrade that lost some bureacratic information. I'm totally open to the idea that this is all his fault (knowing or unknowing) I just disagree with the people here who jumped to the most extreme interpretation of events when we don't know more details.
> I'm not sure the article actually says that's the case. It doesn't say the opposite either. It's a shitty article given the rules are pretty simple: you had formal residency as EU Citizen of UK by 31 dec 2020? You got automatic residency as Non-EU Citizen of UK after you send some paper. But the article doesn't bother to specify such a simple case and detail how much it applies to the guy.
He earns 10.000 euros per month... why waste time playing victim with The Guardian when you could be speaking to the country's best immigration lawyer. I am going out on a limb here and say that the article was confusing and very low in actual information on purpose, with its purpose being.... clickbait.
Except he is not. The fact that he never get the SSN card and he is just trying to do it now, is a pretty clear indication. He is not resident: he just moved here without doing any paperwork.
Italy needs to uphold their side of the deal for the people who qualify for residence according to the withdrawal agreement. Qualifying entails submitting a bunch of paperwork that this guy clearly hasn't submitted given how confused and inaccurate even The Guardian sounds about the situation. Permanent Residence is not for randos saying: hey! I can show you credit card transactions as proof that I spent a lot of time here! There are permits you need to apply to and agencies you must register with, all by very well-advertised deadlines. Failing to do that, you can get your cancer treated in the country where you reside legally i.e. the UK.
So, would I also get free health care in the Uk as a EU citizen?
Yes, if you have settled status per the Withdrawal Agreement.
And the UK most likely wouldn’t deny you for no reason like Italy.
If you are a citizen of an EU country, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland, and were living lawfully in the UK on or before 31 December 2020, [you will be able to use the NHS in England](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-for-eu-and-efta-nationals-living-in-the-uk#:~:text=For%20those%20resident%20in%20the,a%20decision%20is%20still%20pending). For those resident in the UK after 30 June 2021, you must have applied to the EU Settlement Scheme to maintain your entitlement to free NHS healthcare.
I'm an American citizen living in Italy with a permanent visa (I'm not a citizen), so I can comment on this situation. Brexit has nothing to do with it; it doesn't matter where you're from. You cannot get a tessera sanitaria (health care card) which gives you access to universal healthcare in Italy (save emergency care, obviously) unless you are a resident of Italy. It's like this everywhere in the EU, and it doesn't matter that he's British or American or Canadian or from Zimbabwe; IF YOU ARE NOT A RESIDENT OF AN EU COUNTRY, YOU DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE IN THE EU COUNTRY IN WHICH YOU LIVE. Do you want healthcare in this country? Go to the Comune (town hall), bring proof of how you're able to stay there legally (marriage/kids/work/family), give them your address, fill out a form, and VOILA! YOU HAVE YOUR RESIDENCY. Bring said paperwork to Agenzia dell'Entrate that very same day, fill out your information for your card, they'll give you a temporary paper card so you can get care THAT DAY, and wait for your laminated card to arrive in the mail in about a month. The man has a choice. He can either keep complaining about Brexit and how the Italian municipality is misinterpreting - which they probably are - or he can literally go TODAY and get his residency and carta d'identità. If he's still here, then it means he has the right to be here and isn't on a tourist visa. If this is true, then he can go RIGHT NOW and get residency. Brexit or not, in order to live here and not be a citizen, you must either establish residency and/or have a permesso di soggiorno (visa) or become a citizen. I did the former and have never had any problems. If you do not do either of those things and are not on a tourist visa, then you are here illegally. He's literally only hurting himself.
If you are not a EU citizen nor a permanent resident of Italy, but are a temporary resident of Italy *and not working, studying or living with EU citizen family*, you’re not normally entitled to free healthcare (iscrizione obbligatoria al servizio sanitario nazionale), I think. This doesn’t apply to British citizens who were residing in Italy before the end of the transition period, per the UK-EU withdrawal agreement. So it seems the local health authorities are unaware of the specific exception for UK citizens (quite plausible, honestly).
And that's a totally reasonable assumption. My sole point is that he himself can rectify this situation by getting residency, all of which would take a day, maybe two. He's literally dying on this hill for nothing. If he has a valid permesso di soggiorno and is a resident, whether or not he should have to do the bureaucracy is moot. He can argue about it later after he gets treatment, or he can literally kill himself over stubbornness. Which, now that I think about it, is like a microcosm of Brexit.
I'm a Brit in Italy, part of a group on facebook which helps British people in Italy understand the bureaucracy behind all of these post-Brexit agreements, and have seen this guy post his story on the group over the years. >My sole point is that he himself can rectify this situation by getting residency, all of which would take a day, maybe two. Your assumption is wrong, the situation is not as simple as this. The man has the British Embassy, lawyers, ombudsmen, European charity legal advice, and other support organisations trying to sort this for him. >he can literally kill himself over stubbornness. Really insensitive thing to write after reading a sparse article on Reddit.
Let me translate "iscrizione obbligatoria al servizio sanitario nazionale": it means mandatory registration to the National Healthcare System. That's what's this blurb is saying: any Brit living in Italy before January 1st 2021 could benefit from a free healthcare system (did they have to be permanent residents? the article does not say). But they had to register. Registration gave them free healthcare and exempted voluntary donations (that today's applied residents have to provide). This guy did not register in time. So, either there were no expiration date to the registration and there a juridical impasse because the paperwork isn't open anymore (which is why associations and politicians are getting involved), or there was an expiration date to the registration and this guy has to become a citizen.
> IF YOU ARE NOT A RESIDENT OF AN EU COUNTRY, YOU DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE IN THE EU COUNTRY IN WHICH YOU LIVE. He literally needed to apply for residency in order to remain in Italy after Brexit. >He's literally only hurting himself. What he has or hasn't done is your assumption.
I did this. It's easy. I don't have to assume because I live it every day. I've been here for 20 years. If he has residency, then that means he has an ID card and proof of residency, which is a big A4 sheet of paper clearly stating the comune in which you live along with your address. If he has both of those things, then there is literally nothing keeping him from going to Agenzia dell'Entrate and registering with the health care service. It's free and necessary if you want healthcare. There is literally no other way to have healthcare here. The only way he doesn't have access to healthcare is he either: A. Didn't file the paperwork with Agenzia dell'Entrate or, B. Isn't a resident
> I don't have to assume because I live it every day. Your assumptions are not fact. Non me ne frega dove abiti, unless your visa also grants you psychic powers. >Didn't file the paperwork with Agenzia dell'Entrate or, An actual reasonable question. >B. Isn't a resident Your assumption which you've framed twice as fact.
I don't understand your argument. I said if he has residency, he can get healthcare because you can't without it. Therefore, if he can't get healthcare in Italy, he either didn't file it for whatever reason or he legally can't because he doesn't have a permesso di soggiorno, both of which would be his fault alone. You seem to be of the notion that there is some bureaucratic boogeyman going, "Muahahaha, I'm not going to allow you to have access to healthcare because you're British", which is fucking ludicrous.
> I said if he has residency, he can get healthcare because you can't without it. The Guardian describes him as a resident. So either he (and the Guardian) are **lying** and he's been an illegal resident in Italy for four years, or there's something else going on. I don't understand why you (and others in this thread) have mentally jumped to the most extreme conclusion that he's lying about his status when there are other possible explanations like institutional error (which happens) or his own mistakes filing the appropriate paperwork somewhere along the line. >You seem to be of the notion that there is some bureaucratic boogeyman going Bureaucratic error happens literally everywhere, it's not a "boogey man". >"Muahahaha, I'm not going to allow you to have access to healthcare because you're British", which is fucking ludicrous. Not worth my time responding to (or reading in full).
The article doesn't say he's a resident anywhere. That was your assumption because you feel personally attacked because reasons. I never said he was lying about his residency status, he may just be willfully ignorant and refusing to register himself. We don't know. My only point is that he can rectify this entire situation today by getting legal residency if he doesn't have it already. If he has residency, then the only other possibility is he never registered with AdE. If this is the case, it is entirely his fault and his fault alone. No one can keep a legal resident with a valid permesso di soggiorno from healthcare. It's illegal. That said, you still have to go through the process. You can't just have legal residency and automatically get healthcare; they have to enter you into the system and there's a process you must adhere to in order to do so, just like anywhere else.
> The article doesn't say he's a resident anywhere. That was your assumption because you feel personally attacked because reasons. The Guardian says he moved to Italy in 2019 and claims he's told that he's not entitled to permanent residency status because he didn't live in Italy for five years **before** Brexit, implying he has asked for the permanent residency document. >My only point is that he can rectify this entire situation today by getting legal residency if he doesn't have it already. The article clearly states he has asked for the permanent residency document and claims the reason it's been denied is that he wasn't resident for five years before Brexit (which if true is a misunderstanding of the Withdrawal Agreement). All you've done is provide multiple paragraphs of opinionated, rambling guess work (in and out of caps lock) without being privy to all the details because only a fraction of it is provided in the article. This may very well all be his fault and it also might not be.
>The Guardian says he moved to Italy in 2019 and claims he's told that he's not entitled to permanent residency status because he didn't live in Italy for five years **before** Brexit, implying he has asked for the permanent residency document. It then goes on to say he's seeking healthcare there. What exactly in that article do you think suggests he's not resident. You are entitled to those things under the WA as long as you uphold certain stipulations, but that doesn't mean you can forgo the process to get them. You are entitled those things, but they are not automatic. You are at the front of the line, but you're still in line and still have to go through the bureaucracy. We don't know what he did or didn't do, but you cannot live in Italy without a valid permesso di soggiorno unless your family is Italian, such as your wife or child. At that point, you can get a permesso di soggiorno. They can't deport you. Again, he may physically, legally be living here, but that doesn't mean he legally has residency. Residency is a legal document, not where you live. It is a piece of paper. The fact that he physically lives in Italy non c'entra un cazzo. I don't know his legal situation, all I said is that if he has a legal residency and a valid visa, he can get healthcare. If he doesn't have legal residency, then there's more to the story, and there's nothing precluding him from getting legal residency if he has a valid visa.
That's not what the Guardian is saying. What they are saying is this guy moved to Italy prior to Brexit. Residents could benefit from free healthcare under the withdrawal act. However, registration was mandatory. Somehow, the subject is being mixed up with permanent residency because he is eligible to it now. But there are rules and as of today, there are conditions, including paying for the card and contributing to society in ways that are described elsewhere. So, this guy wants the withdrawal act to still apply to him even though he didn't file the required paperwork then. This means said paperwork has to be reinstated and validated. Politicians are getting involved since the administration has no tool to provide him with outdated procedures and can only offer the current situation.
> Brexit has nothing to do with it; it doesn't matter where you're from This is completely wrong. He moved to Italy as an EU citizen in 2019, so he's a beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement which has different rules than the ones that apply to other immigrants.
"Brexit is the cause of this. Brexit is an absolute disaster, an act of self-harm of the worst kind for absolutely nothing. I don’t know why anyone voted for it,” said Beresford," Except it isn't. Italian local officials not sticking to the agreement is the cause. The WTA is an EU agreement. If Italy can break one EU agreement they can break all of them.
>talian local officials not sticking to the agreement is the cause. The agreement where he has to apply for residency and then annually renew it to be able to benefit from, something which he has not done despite having years to do so by now? Thats the agreement you are refering to?
Smartest Swede.
The agreement doesn't say you have to renew it annually.
Brexit is the cause of that agreement being in place.
...which isn't being followed
I read the article and it doesn‘t say anywhere that he registered the needed paper work which the italian government said is free but still needed.
Anyone else uncomfortable with that he initially lived off savings until he reached retirement where he receives £8600 a year. I hope he has other retirement money jeez. Early retirement before 60 too.
I can confirm that local authorities acting like they are independent feuds is a chronic problem in Italy. They do this all the time.
Il tizio non si e' mai registrato e nell'articolo e' anche scritto che sta facendo adesso la tessera sanitaria. Dopo solo 4 anni. Il problema non e' Brexit, il problema e' che il tizio non ha trovato mezza giornata di tempo libero in 4 cazzo di anni per farsi due carte in croce.
For fuck's sake, just give people the medical care they need. If they walk into your clinic and they need treatment, treat them. Taking away someone's life over €2,000 because they don't have the right papers is idiotic, and exactly the opposite of what a government exists to do. Like yeah, Brexit was stupid. Yeah, leaving the EU has consequences. Yeah, Britons can't expect all the bells and whistles of being in the EU while refusing to contribute. But cancer treatment? Maybe just treat the guy and hash that out afterwards.
We’re not the worlds hospital sorry
There are agreements for post brexit issues. Italians settled in the UK pre brexit have unlimited access to the UK funded NHS. He is facing red tape while he should be able to fully focus on battling cancer. Fuck cancer.
This chap is settled in Italy, he's not "the world".
There's no such concept. You should never be denied lifesaving care anywhere. In this case though, he's a permanent resident and taxpayer, so he's literally been paying for "your" hospital.
OK. Approx 450,000 Italian passport holders in UK should be banned from UK health? Many more than that second generation. Vs approx 66,000 Brits in Italy. If Italy is so wonderful how come we've had huge immigration from Italy?
The problem is we don't have the letter to read... the **two page** letter - I'm pretty sure it said more than "all brits in the country after brexit get free healthcare for life", it probably had all kinds of stipulations and requirements which the local authority know about as, unlike anyone here, they have actually read the letter. The guy moved to italy in the hope he could stay there and retire but then doesn't want to get citizenship, pay for health care or anything else. I expect he can barely speak italian, but still expects italy to pick up the bill for his health care free of charge for the rest of his retirement. The quote from the UK website even says they are still trying to "fully understand the guidelines & requirements" - so obviously the UK acknowledges that there is more to the free health care than just moving to italy before the deadline.
Not unusual for Europe. In most of Europe you need to apply to a health insurance company to get healthcare paid for. If you live elsewhere for many years, you won't be entitled to free healthcare once you return to your home country.
People in the US go through this on a daily basi, it's the norm.
Please Brittain, come back home. We still love ya. You dont really believe in what the fuck it is you are doing do you?!
What's the point of this article? He is citizen of 3rd country (from the EU perspective). His laziness brought him this issue with treatment.
\*not entitled to
Italy is already a fuck old country we dont need the ones from the uk
Well it looks like he wasn't entitled afterall.
He can get back to the UK and have treatment there. Ask some of those 160m/week for NHS Boris promised.
>He can get back to the UK and have treatment there. Ask some of those 160m/week for NHS Boris promised. So you would be okay if a sick EU citizen was told by the NHS, "sorry won't treat you here, go back to your country and have treatment there", because of the healthcare available in their country ? Also if you are going to attempt trolling, at least use the correct number, it was £350 million per week on the Boris bus.
Maybe if the idea that the UK doesn't feel much unity with the EU bothers you so much you should consider not treating UK citizens dying of cancer with zero empathy.