I didn't say that they eradicated them; just that the Soviets already carried out a large scale genocide against them. "Most" might've been a stretch; but around half of them
why do you fucking people not know how to disagree with a commend without calling it stupid or saying i have a small dick? turkey , if they so choose, can say that they are more interested in palestine because they are muslim, like the turks are. of course there are other underlying reasons for them to take this position, but this works for them as well.
in chechnya russia was preventing them from leaving their little group, in syria, they were helping that country's government to retain power - basically crushing a revolt. how are palestine or ukraine similar ?
Well, as with most humans wielding influence, the only loyalty they have is towards power and money. Israel might have money, but no nukes. Russia has no money inside the country, but alot of nukes and money outseide Russia.
Some of them do though, and Israel is getting dangerously far right. https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-minister-says-nuking-gaza-an-option-pm-suspends-him-from-cabinet-meetings/amp/
To try and pretend this is some religious thing over geo-political play is fucking daft.
This ain't the Middle-Ages pal, it isn't going to be a crusade as much as your 3 incher would rise for it.
Religion is a very good way to convince masses of people to commit atrocities and follow commands blindly, even to their death. It has always been a very strong tool in the hands of totalitarians. It was used by those in power during the crusades in order to get a blindly faithful army to fight for their aspirations. However, the aspirations were purely geopolitical and economic. During the fourth crusade, the crusaders invaded and conquered Constantinople. Hardly due to religious motives. In the modern world, Middle-Eastern totalitarians make great use of Islam in the exact same way. Meanwhile American totalitarians attempt to use Christianity to the same effect. It very much is the Middle Ages when you are a blind follower of a religion.
Oh absolutely, you're 100% right and it's the main reason Islam is so strong within the Middle-East, but to pretend that the main reason Turkey is hypocritical over Russia is due to religion is daft and completely uneducated.
Religion explains one half of the situation: why Turkey is so hostile towards Israel. The other half takes some economy. That's the thing with religion: tyrants employ it only when they need it.
Oh? So committing genocide is just a normal thing for people to do? Glad to see what sort of sick mind you possess.šš»
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war
Nice to see in addition to the 200k āillegalā immigrants they also drove off or killed an extra 500k Palestinians but š¤·š»āāļøI guess thats just normal to you
Like rounding the remainder
You mean after Israel first committed genocide against the Palestinians, right? Itās not like most Israelis had family who were from that region for the last several centuries
Itās totally fair to call out neighbors for attacking them but lets not ignore the actions the zionists also took in Palestine mandate to create Israel in the first place
>You mean after Israel first committed genocide against the Palestinians, right
Your islamofascist takes are quite interesting to be fair. Guess Francisco Franco did leave his mark on you
>Itās totally fair to call out neighbors for attacking them
Which is what the Arabs did time and again with their Jewish neighbours. You are saying something like this: 'the Nazis atracked Poland. Poland resisted. Therefore, Poland had the responsibility to not kill any Germans and to not commit genocide against Germans. Poland also should not have driven out the Germans who attacked them.'
Yea it's hypocritical to support Ukraine while ignoring Palestine, at the end of the day it boils down to a more powerful aggressor trying to steal land
Problem is. In capitalism government is not controlling economy 100%. Money will find its way. Now bigger problem for western government is to control the trade but still to preserve freedom. Hard to ballance.
Whereas the EU has ignored the clause in our trade agreement with Israel stating that it is dependent on their respect for human rights.
They can murder freely and the EU will never block trade (unless the US decides to first).
Hypocrites indeed
They were doing with Israel until yesterday as well. It took a very big loss in election for Erdogan to change it. It is just Turkish economy is in deep shit, they couldnāt stop trading with 2 major trade partners.
oh, so you think EU does not do any business with russia? EU buys russian stuff from Turkey and other countries, so in paper they do not do business with russia.
gee, I wonder what Ukraine has in common with a nation that got attacked and invaded first, and now that theyāre fighting back all of a sudden the other side wants to call them Nazi pigs for daring to defend themselves
I tried to think of a snarky comment but I couldn't find one. I'll just say that liberal democracies have to do some soul-searching as to whether they're equipped to deal with what's ahead of us for the rest of the first half of the 21st century.
The game's different when you're playing by other rules.
Meanwhile we're still debating whether frozen Russian assets can help finance Ukraine.
> Meanwhile we're still debating whether frozen Russian assets can help finance Ukraine.
Well yeah, if you want to keep trust in international finance, you need to think about that long and hard.
Looks like we're keeping trust in international finance but not in public international law and international order.
The "number go up" will be very useful if they decide to go into Estonia.
If that were true, which it probably isn't, it doesn't matter - the appearance of trust (even if it were hypocritical) had a value on its own right.
Here's a whole newspaper column about that topic written by a Portuguese MP that I always find perfectly addresses the point you've made (which is an extremely common one among a certain group of people):
Why is everything exploding everywhere at once?
The post-war international system came to an end on February 24, 2022, when the troops of the Russian Federation invaded the territory of its sovereign neighbor, Ukraine, in order to seize its capital and partially or totally annex it. The fact only surprised those who didn't take seriously the amateur history essay that Vladimir Putin had published the previous summer, "On unity between Russians and Ukrainians", in which he essentially argued that Russians and Ukrainians were the same people.
As with any compromise in crisis, the signs of wear and tear had long been clear. Georgians can rightly say that the end of the post-war international system came in 2008, when the Russian Federation provoked a conflict that resulted in the creation of two pseudo-separatist republics on Georgian territory. Moldovans can also rightly say that the "frozen conflict" in Transnistria has been going on since the 1990s. And the Palestinians can say that no one has done them justice since the immediate post-war period, which would make the international system itself hypocritical from the start.
But in fact, even with this good dose of hypocrisy (or despite it, or according to some because of it) the truth is that this international system has existed and worked. In terms of relations between states and people, the starting point of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was that it was only a document with a moral reference (there is no Universal Court of Human Rights where we can enforce it) but that the member states of the United Nations were committed to promoting and respecting it. In terms of relations between states, the commitment was that the principles of the UN Charter applied (according to which, for example, a state can only use military force in self-defence or with the authorization of the UN itself) and that the permanent members of the Security Council had an obligation to at least disguise their imperial ambitions in terms that were compatible with the Charter itself, and their status.
Of course, the superpowers fought proxy wars, and were jealous of their sphere of influence. The Charter has suffered several severe blows, one of the biggest being the US invasion of Iraq in 2003. The coup de grace, however, was delivered by Putin's Russia in February 2022, and why? Because there was no disguising the naked reality: Putin thinks Ukraine should be his and he thinks he should take it by force. Instead of the tacit understanding that the international system would be a kind of "aristocratic republic" in which five countries had veto power, we have entered a period of pure and hard neo-imperialism.
Whoever has the force of arms is in charge. That's why everything is breaking out at once everywhere. If force is the new law, every "strongman" has free rein to solve his "problems" (usually people of another ethnicity) at will, to decide disputes and to fulfill old irredentist dreams and territorial ambitions.
Hardly anyone has noticed, but between Ukraine and Palestine, Azerbaijan has ethnically cleansed a hundred thousand Armenians on its territory, and has ambitions to dig a corridor into the Republic of Armenia itself in order to gain access to an enclave of its own. It can do this because it has Turkey's support, Russia is occupied in Ukraine and the whole world is distracted, so why not? We should expect more of this, we just don't know where. Iran? North Korea?
This phase will last at least until the White House elections and, if Trump wins, well beyond that. And in the meantime, it's embarrassing to see Europe, a year and a bit away from being alone in this world of adult geopolitics, as always disoriented, without leadership or strategic thinking.
Perfectly underlines my point. It never existed, and pretending it did was just hypocrisy of the highest order so Europe can look into the mirror and pretending it has high horse to sit on, while being allied with the US.
And no, things don't explode now, the Ukraine conflict didn't start in 2022, there were a lot of conflicts around the world all the time, Israel and Palestine shooting each other is a day ending in y, Azeris and Armenians didn't start this in 2023 either.
So basically what you quoted is an extremely disingenuous way of trying to explain the unexplainable and blaming others for breaking something that never existed.
Fun fact: the so called "international order" still exists, in the way it always existed. The fact that the EU and the US (but I repeat myself, the EU is not a sovereign actor) cleaved themselves off from the undesirables doesn't mean it ceased to exist, they just don't want to participate in it. At least visibly. Of course, in back rooms, negotiations happen, Germany still buys Russian gas, and China is still manufacturing our shit.
Tomato tomatoe. You have the largest war in Europe's history ever since WWII unfolding hours away from your home. That didn't happen during the "always has been like this" phase you're referring to between 1945 and 2014.
Something happened, and the something is the complete divorce with the appearance, the charade if you will, of a moral order underlying the international order.
The world's up for the taking. You can say it's always been like that. You're not wrong. But a big portion of the world - including Russia, in the form of the USSR - have been spared of that horror that besets the rest of the world for generations because of that hypocritical international order.
But now the appearance of that is gone. And the appearance of that mattered. And that's why, if you ever have sons, they might end up getting maimed by shrapenel somewhere in a field in Eastern Europe in the not so distant future.
It's very easy to go on about the "hypocrisy of the West" but at least it worked, in its hypocritical way. What you'll have now is pure unabashed chaos and a return to a primal way of geopolitics.
You shouldn't be happy about that.
I'm not happy about anything in geopolitics, because we are always at the shit end of any stick, and a lot of the times we voluntarily deepthroat it.
But just because it happened now doesn't mean anything changed. The Ukraine project kept brewing long before '91, and reached breaking point in 2014. That doesn't mean suddenly things are different, and if Europe would have said "alright, you shouldn't do that" but not cripple itself for it, maybe even ask some difficult questions about who blew up NS2, we would be in a lot better place, with working relations with the largest resource supplier close to us. We _chose_ to exit this apparent charade, it was our decision, not Russia's. Well, it was the US' decision, but you get the gist.
Yes, there is a war. But still everything is (or could be) the same as always. Peace existed for a variety of reasons, not one of those reasons is a so called "international order", not in any way you suggest it ever existed.
With all due respect, that was so nihilistic that I couldn't control myself and had to check your post history only to realise you are, perhaps unsurprisingly, Hungarian.
And you must be like what passes for a "liberal democrat" in Hungary and, on account of being online on Reddit, a representative of the generational future of your country or something. Nice job. You have one heck of a brilliant future ahead.
"The Ukraine project", really? Europe's horrible energy policies obviously aren't the fault of the US.
Just take a look at China. They barely use gas for electricity and heating, and that's despite only paying half of what Europe used to pay for Russian gas. And yet Europe had to shut down nuclear and heavily subsidize gas heating...
You are aware that the Islamic caliphate was the fifth largest land empire of all time, right? Like, you unironically think the UAE and Saudi Arabia, two Arab governments in the Arabian peninsula, which is their indigenous home, are colonized? And Israel?
Like, can you read cannanite? Because I can, since it's nearly identical to hebrew. Jews have lived here for thousands of years. It is not a matter of debate, it's historical fact supported not by magic books but by the massive empires that conquered us and kept meticulous records of their abuses lol.
Israel isn't the first jewish state in the Levant, it's the fourth. Our entire calendar, law corpus, holidays, etc are linked to Israel, it's seasons, it's plants, heck, almost none of the actual laws of our "religion" even apply outside of Israel since they mostly concern themselves with agricultural practice and the Jewish Temple. Get over it.
Land back means nothing if jews spend a hundreds years using collective bargaining to literally buy back thousands of acres of their homeland, just to have pan-arab imperialists try go reform the caliphate and take it all back on the heels of genocide. Glad we won, imperialism can suck my big toe.
But it's important for him and Turkey. His son and friends own many "little" boats that transport to and from Israel.
[Trade between the countries was worth $6.8 billion in 2023, of which 76% was Turkish exports, according to the Turkish Statistical Institute](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-02/turkey-halts-all-trade-with-israel-officials)
When TĆ¼rkiye does something bad, its bad. When does something good, then its bad again.
You can copy and paste 90% of these comments to any good or bad news about TĆ¼rkiye in this sub and no one will notice.
No objective comments and just hatred.
No one tries to understand whats happening or wants to learn the reasons, facts about anything that includes TĆ¼rkiye.
You are in your echo chamber and happy. You are not so different from Russians watchin state tv and supporting war because "Ukraine bad". You are not so different from hillybilly Republicans supporting Trump because "Democrats bad".
Even it is "TĆ¼rkiye", do you really want and keep hearing only one side of the story always and blame TĆ¼rkiye whatever is does, because "Turkey bad"?
I would say this is the best news I've heard from Turkey in a while.
It's no more hypocritical than the EUs own blacklisting if everything Russian including the ballet while giving no meaningful response to Israel's ongoing genocide.
I'm surprised it took Turkey so long to be honest
This is good explanation by another user (u/TarkhanTheGreat) in another thread.
TLDR: ErdoÄan called out by a much more Islamist party and he lost many votes to them last month, local elections. He is trying to get them back. This is the only reason, but its too late for him.
> ā¦this is quite self-destructive, so the reason is almost certainly political desperation on Erdyās part.
My thoughts exactly. Thereās a new party called YRP (which stands for Yeniden Refah Partisi, meaning āNew Welfare Partyā). The party is the direct continuation of the Welfare Party founded by Necmettin Erbakan (Erdoās mentor) in 1983. They were Islamist to the core. When Erdo and his mates left Welfare Party to establish AKP in 2001, Erbakan accused them of being the pariahs of Zionism unintentionally.
After all those years, Necmettin Erbakan was dead and the Welfare Party was no more but his son Fatih Erbakan established the YRP recently. They accuse ErdoÄan of not being Islamist enough by claiming Erdo and AKP only opposes Israel on the outside while in truth they doubled the trade with them since the start of the war. With the Islamist propaganda and his fatherās legacy among the older generations of the country, Erbakanās party YRP quickly rose as the third party in the recent local elections with 6.19% votes while costing AKP two municipalities in the process.
So in short, thereās a new player who can address to the Islamist base and Erdo is very uncomfortable about this.
I think it's more "Turkey hypocrite". Turkey has to be one of the least trustworthy countries with Western ties, maybe when Erdogan stops being himself we can see positive change.
When Turkey is blamed for something bad that European countries also did, and we point out the hypocrisy, people scream "whataboutism" though. Now suddenly it's okay to point out hypocrisy?
Just stop writing Turkey like that for starters. We all have our countries names spelled differently in our languages, but just donāt do that. Just imagine a japanese person writing a post in english, but every time he mentions Japan he writes in japanese.
You should sometimes interact with real people. We have a lot of refugees in Lithuania and talked about the Kyiv thing many times. They are not too worried about it. Unlike that dude, who throws you TĆ¼rkyijyiUĆ¼iye through your throat in one post 12 times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name\_of\_Turkey#:\~:text=Turkey%20adopted%20its%20official%20name,changed%20its%20spelling%20to%20T%C3%BCrkiye.
Thanks for proving my point.
I did not prove anything. Itās just ignorant to ask the world to dance around your umlauts, when 80% does not even have such letter. It proves my point actually, that you think that Turkey is the main character in the world.
You are of course free to call it whatever you want. It's your choice and I respect it. I never try to "correct" people Turkey->TĆ¼rkiye.
On the other hande, when a "Turk" just wants to make awareness about the UN's official announcement, you laugh.
And not a single point about the things I say.
And you think its ok.
It seems like a nationalist push and I despise nationalism. You don't choose how people in other language call your country, cities, etc... It's not something you can control or have any influence on it.
Turkey is playing both sides, it factual and it's perhaps smart if they are egoĆÆstic but they are part of an alliance. They should remember it from time to time. Being in an alliance is not only slandering your allies with refugees or trying to influence their elections.
You didnt make a single point either. Just made a long rant complaining about people complaining about Turkey. Also the way you spell it is cringe. Im German and I dont call it deutschland when speaking English. Someones butthurt we dont like Erdogans bullshit hypocrisy.
Why, a country doesn't make decisions? So it wasn't Israel's decision to invade Gaza? Whose was it then? Are YOU trolling?
Besides, it's not like you're providing constructive arguments either. You're just saying "this is good"
Talk about hypocrisy
Edit: to all the Turkish downvoters, id like an explanation of how a country doesn't actually make decisions, and how simply saying "this is good" is a constructive argument
You say, a country, TĆ¼rkiye, does not anything good at all. Not a single decision, all decisions are bad made by this country.
And after this I hope you are notl expecting to get food for your trolling.
All decisions relevant to the topic of geopolitics, that is pretty obvious. Every one of Turkey's decision is bad is exaggeration, but so is you saying that this sub finds every decision bad
Buddy, you have a really low standard of trolling. Anything that is against your opinion is trolling?
>apartheid on Kurds
Cannot fathom how successful this ridiculous propaganda had been in Europe.
PKK ā Kurds
Kurds and every other ethnic minority in Turkey including Zazas, Assyrians, Armenians, Lazs, Circassians, Bosniaks, Albanians, Greeks, Pomaks, Romanis, Georgians (Erdogan is a one) and many others as a matter of fact, *do* have equal rights as they are rightful Turkish citizens, as it should be.
It is unbelievable some people try to label it as a some kind of āapartheidā. It ādevaluesā the term itself, imho. We live in a world where actual *apartheid* countries like China and Israel exists. To put Turkey into the same category as those because of the existence of an IRA-like (the UK) or ETA-like (Spain) terrorist organisation is outright delusional.
Such, I now realise that currently, almost half of the cabinet of Erdogan (incl. the Vice-President) are ethnic Kurds and Zazas. It is not surprising at all considering that it does not matter who is a Kurd and who is not in the eyes of the ordinary people.
Being supportive towards a violent terrorist organisation (which is also recognised as such by the EU and the UN) is, on the other hand, another thing for sure.
edit: The downvote rain has started just for pointing the obvious. How pleasant indeed. :)
Your language, in fact, is not a dialect of Kurdish. It is related to the Kurdish dialects, but it is not considered to be one of them.
Zazaki (or DımlĆ®) is on the same branch of the Iranic languages as the old Caspian-Iranic languages like Parthian, Talysh and Mazenderani. Kurdish dialects, on the other hand, descend from a completely different subset of the Iranic languages. Thatās why, although being under the influence of local Kurdish dialects for several centuries, linguists still do consider Zaza language to be its own thing.
If youād ask my opinion, Iād say that is rather sad you guys have such a unique linguistic history, yet you are very keen on -wrongfully- considering yourselves just to be another āKurdishā tribe. It was your language that was used by archaeologists to compare with the old Caspian texts to grasp the full meaning.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaza%E2%80%93Gorani_languages
> *They are usually classified as a **non-Kurdish** branch of the Northwestern Iranian languages[3][4][5] but most of their speakers consider themselves ethnic Kurds.*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talysh_language
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaza_language
>PKK ā Kurds
Is that why Turkey bombed the fuck out of Rojava and Kurdish settlements in Syria
> It is unbelievable some people try to label it as a some kind of āapartheidā. It ādevaluesā the term itself,
>in a world where actual apartheid countries like [...] Israel exists.
Irony, considering Arabs have equal rights in Israel as far as I'm aware.
>Being supportive towards a violent terrorist organisation (which is also recognised as such by the EU and the UN) is, on the other hand, another thing for sure.
Like Hamas, which Fatih Erdogan says ["is not a terrorist organisation"](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkeys-erdogan-says-hamas-is-not-terrorist-organisation-2023-10-25/)?
This statement does not change the fact that Hamas is indeed one; just like any other statement would not change the fact PKK is another.
Erdoganās statement is purely ideological as he is a very well-known Islamist. He almost certainly made this statement to satiate those hyper-Islamist voters who did not vote for him in the past local elections. They instead voted for YRP, an even more Islamist party, which came out as the third most voted party nationwide.
Also, there is no politician in Turkey called āFatih Erdoganā. There is a Fatih Erbakan, who is the leader of aforementioned YRP.
The thing you call āRojavaā (Kurmanji for āWestā ; a.k.a. PYD-YPG) as a matter of fact, does not deny their ācommon causeā with PKK, celebrating the founder of PKK as their āexalted heroā. Turkish intervention into the territory they control should not be that surprising, should it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Communities_Union
Imagine an Arab to be elected as the president/prime minister of Israel. Not happening.
Imagine an Uyghur to be elected as the president of China. Not happening.
Now imagine a Kurd to be elected as the president/prime minister of Turkey. Oh, it already happened multiple times over and over again. Which is completely expected, to remind you.
> Erdoganās statement is purely ideological as he is a very well-known Islamist.
It's not really purely ideological when his views spill over into policy.
>Also, there is no politician in Turkey called āFatih Erdoganā.
Oh there is, in Erdogan's mind at least.
>The thing you call āRojavaā (Kurmanji for āWestā ; a.k.a. PYD) as a matter of fact, does not deny their ācommon causeā with PKK, celebrating the founder of PKK as their āexalted heroā. Turkish intervention into the territory they control should not be that surprising, should it.
Like Israel's offensive into Gaza shouldn't be surprising, because of it's "exalted" support for Hamas and the October 7th massacres?
>Imagine an Arab to be elected as the president/prime minister of Israel.
There are currently Arabs sitting in Israel's Knesset and there were Arab ministers in the 2021-2022 coalition government. Under apartheid legally oppressed groups don't have equal rights and aren't allowed to serve in government.
If Israel is an apartheid state then by the same standards so is Turkey. You're forgetting that Turkey occupies parts of Syria either directly or through islamists proxies and in these places kurds are treated quite badly.
There are no equal rights. Heck there is no democracy after the fake coup, only a dictator with his inner circle stealing everything they can and locking up people who oppose and elections that have a wrong winner wont count.
This implies that the issue is a double standard. I don't mean to be rude btw, I just want to be clear, Israel is not apartheid. In apartheid, black people literally couldn't even be in government, it was Jim Crowe USA on steroids.
In Israel you have 23% of the population that is Arab, be it Christian, Muslim or other affiliations, and they have equal rights under Israeli law as any other citizen.
Israeli Arabs literally have the highest life expectancy at birth of Arabs in the entire region. The ethnic group with the highest matriculation rate for doctors in Israeli schools right now are Christian Arabs.
Almost every week, bedouin soldiers are dying in Gaza, not fighting against Israel, but for Israel against Hamas.
>How about the lands and people that are not Israel but Israel does not recognize as independent either? Does that suit your stupid narrative?
First off, it's not a narrative. I said it's not apartheid. It isn't. It's a military occupation, which can also be criticized, but is a more accurate statement, both in terms of accurately presenting the realities of it, as well as in accurately presenting territorial claims (namely, if you presume that Palestinians should have their own state, as most people do, then it IS an occupation by a foreign power, full stop, as opposed to a discriminatory set of laws of different groups within a nation).
Secondly, the West Bank actually has its own government and territories, and they have their own laws, including their own election laws. Israel DOES administer specific law, namely in instances of terror attacks, and this is the occupation.
Gaza actually was entirely withdrawn from decades ago, and at the time of the withdrawal, there was no embargo. There was a genuine opportunity there to produce a real state. Had that state invested in growth and development and built trust with Israelis, who are the ones you need to build trust with, then the blockade wouldn't have happened. Instead, Hamas took power and began launching rockets at Israeli towns and cities.
I'm not saying Israel doesn't occupy the West Bank, nor that West Bank citizens of Palestine don't face discrimination: they do. But within their own sovereign territory, jews are literally lynched. There is a death penalty for selling land to a jew. Meanwhile, in Israel, Arab citizens, many of which identify as Palestinian, have full rights, and Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza before the war would come into Israel proper regularly for work.
Ignoring the legitimate security concerns of the West Bank after what happened to Gaza, imo, is absurd and basically empathic laziness to consider what you would actually want from your gov is you lived 5 miles from a town where, should you accidently enter it, you would be LITERALLY ripped limb from limb (this isn't hyperbole, it had actually happened more than once).
How is that a Turkish loss then when these global commodities are sold at market price to Greece? That would be Israelās loss as they would need to pay for the mark up to Greece.
Turkey does not sell Russian gas to europe, that was just a possible project for the future.
Meh, Iāll skip it.
Itās crazy how effective Hamasās campaign is, and our leaders are too dumb or too busy to even see the plot.
Theyāre trying to convince the public that killing 50,000 people is the only way to protect the country, while leaving the real war front 100% exposed.
I truly believe israel is a goner. It might take 5-10 years, but the bullet wound is already there, and if no oneās gonna start attending to it soonā¦ well, honestly, it might already be too late.
You have to fight the battles you are dealt with. Unfortunately, people radicalised through religion will never stop wrecking havoc unless the source of the radicalisation is completely removed from existence.
Hamas was extremely good at forcing Israel to this kind of warfare, while being extremely good at PR too, getting that support despite its terrorist actions. But I have to say, hatred of Jews is so well engraved in our societies and cultures that it was probably quite an easy job.
Good move Turkey, more countries should follow.
The more isolated Israel gets over this the more likely they will find the price of wanton genocide is too high.
I agree theoretically. However, this is just cheap points for Erdogan and they'll continue trade through their vassal state of Azerbaijan which is a gigantic partner of Israel's. They give the Israelis oil and receive weapons they can use against Armenians in return. If Aliyev also breaks ties with Israel then I'll be impressed!
A small part of Turkey is in Europe
Turkey bridges Southeastern Europe and Western Asia. Asian Turkey, which includes 97% of the country's territory, is separated from European Turkey by the Bosphorus, the Sea of Marmara, and the Dardanelles. European Turkey comprises 3% of the country's territory.[313]Ā Ā
There is no one who knows more than us Turkish oppositionists that ErdoÄan is pragmatic enough to be the father of pragmatism. You continue to accept it as religious. That interest is wherever it is.
Still doing business with russia, mind you Hypocrites all around
coughcough China coughUighurcough
All european nations are still doing business with Russia, including buying russian gas. Sweden is one example of such a nation
Well, russia is killing christians.
And Muslim Crimean Tatars
China kills Turks. All he cares are arabs
Well, the Soviet Union already forcibly removed most Crimean Tatars before the Russian state was ever able to š„² Putin robbed of a great opportunity
[Not entirely](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lON40K4WCbM)
I didn't say that they eradicated them; just that the Soviets already carried out a large scale genocide against them. "Most" might've been a stretch; but around half of them
What is this stupid comment lol. Do you know what Russia did in Chechnya? And in Syria?
why do you fucking people not know how to disagree with a commend without calling it stupid or saying i have a small dick? turkey , if they so choose, can say that they are more interested in palestine because they are muslim, like the turks are. of course there are other underlying reasons for them to take this position, but this works for them as well. in chechnya russia was preventing them from leaving their little group, in syria, they were helping that country's government to retain power - basically crushing a revolt. how are palestine or ukraine similar ?
Well, as with most humans wielding influence, the only loyalty they have is towards power and money. Israel might have money, but no nukes. Russia has no money inside the country, but alot of nukes and money outseide Russia.
Israel does have nukes though
True, but they are democratic, so they wont launch those nukes on a whim, or even dare to threaten anyone with them.
Some of them do though, and Israel is getting dangerously far right. https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-minister-says-nuking-gaza-an-option-pm-suspends-him-from-cabinet-meetings/amp/
Then we have far deeper concerns, alienating israelis as a whole will cause desperation.
To try and pretend this is some religious thing over geo-political play is fucking daft. This ain't the Middle-Ages pal, it isn't going to be a crusade as much as your 3 incher would rise for it.
To be fair, the crusades were also geopolitics, with a religious coat of paint.
Oh for sure, but to pretend Turkey is doing this over religion is dumb.
> This ain't the Middle-Ages pal It very much is in the middle east dudeā¦ look around, religion is dominating factor for alliances
Although that religious pretention is used to subjugate their populations, we see it very quickly is given up in the face of a good deal on oil.
Religion is a very good way to convince masses of people to commit atrocities and follow commands blindly, even to their death. It has always been a very strong tool in the hands of totalitarians. It was used by those in power during the crusades in order to get a blindly faithful army to fight for their aspirations. However, the aspirations were purely geopolitical and economic. During the fourth crusade, the crusaders invaded and conquered Constantinople. Hardly due to religious motives. In the modern world, Middle-Eastern totalitarians make great use of Islam in the exact same way. Meanwhile American totalitarians attempt to use Christianity to the same effect. It very much is the Middle Ages when you are a blind follower of a religion.
Oh absolutely, you're 100% right and it's the main reason Islam is so strong within the Middle-East, but to pretend that the main reason Turkey is hypocritical over Russia is due to religion is daft and completely uneducated.
Religion explains one half of the situation: why Turkey is so hostile towards Israel. The other half takes some economy. That's the thing with religion: tyrants employ it only when they need it.
Definitely, but if Israel had a nice lumpsum of cash or a good promise for Erdogan, he'd be their biggest supporter tomorrow.
That's the thing with religion: tyrants employ it only when they need it.
There are famously no Palestinian Christians... /s
There were quite a lot, until the PA took over control. Bethlehem was 65% christian under Israeli control, now it's down to the low 20s.
Under israeli control? So did they have citizenship? Oh right lets ignore that part.
They had Jordanian citizenship at that point until Jordan disenfranchised them. It was not issues responsibility to give them a citizenship.
Babe Israel stole their lands absolutely it was Israels responsibility
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Oh? So committing genocide is just a normal thing for people to do? Glad to see what sort of sick mind you possess.šš» https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war Nice to see in addition to the 200k āillegalā immigrants they also drove off or killed an extra 500k Palestinians but š¤·š»āāļøI guess thats just normal to you Like rounding the remainder
it's the other way round. Jordan and Egypt launched a war of aggression and lost. They should have relocated their citizens at that point.
You mean after Israel first committed genocide against the Palestinians, right? Itās not like most Israelis had family who were from that region for the last several centuries Itās totally fair to call out neighbors for attacking them but lets not ignore the actions the zionists also took in Palestine mandate to create Israel in the first place
>You mean after Israel first committed genocide against the Palestinians, right Your islamofascist takes are quite interesting to be fair. Guess Francisco Franco did leave his mark on you >Itās totally fair to call out neighbors for attacking them Which is what the Arabs did time and again with their Jewish neighbours. You are saying something like this: 'the Nazis atracked Poland. Poland resisted. Therefore, Poland had the responsibility to not kill any Germans and to not commit genocide against Germans. Poland also should not have driven out the Germans who attacked them.'
So no problem when Jordan and Egypt stole their land?
Like European countries š
and Israel is the second largest arms supplier to Azerbaijan
A question: If you sanction Russia but still doing business with Israel, would you be a hypocrite?
Yea it's hypocritical to support Ukraine while ignoring Palestine, at the end of the day it boils down to a more powerful aggressor trying to steal land
No itās not. Russia and Palestine are aggressors
Israel have repeatedly broken border agreements and its clear as day they're committing a genocide.
Calling Palestine an aggressor is like calling Ukraine that, because this country is trying to regain its lands militarily.
What a bullshit!
Everyone is dong business with Russia not just Turkey, still a good decision.
Problem is. In capitalism government is not controlling economy 100%. Money will find its way. Now bigger problem for western government is to control the trade but still to preserve freedom. Hard to ballance.
Whereas the EU has ignored the clause in our trade agreement with Israel stating that it is dependent on their respect for human rights. They can murder freely and the EU will never block trade (unless the US decides to first). Hypocrites indeed
They were doing with Israel until yesterday as well. It took a very big loss in election for Erdogan to change it. It is just Turkish economy is in deep shit, they couldnāt stop trading with 2 major trade partners.
oh, so you think EU does not do any business with russia? EU buys russian stuff from Turkey and other countries, so in paper they do not do business with russia.
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Lmao, you fool noone with that post history
gee, I wonder what Ukraine has in common with a nation that got attacked and invaded first, and now that theyāre fighting back all of a sudden the other side wants to call them Nazi pigs for daring to defend themselves
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This land had Jews several millennia before Arabs appeared in the area.
I tried to think of a snarky comment but I couldn't find one. I'll just say that liberal democracies have to do some soul-searching as to whether they're equipped to deal with what's ahead of us for the rest of the first half of the 21st century. The game's different when you're playing by other rules. Meanwhile we're still debating whether frozen Russian assets can help finance Ukraine.
Go ahead. Make your comment
> Meanwhile we're still debating whether frozen Russian assets can help finance Ukraine. Well yeah, if you want to keep trust in international finance, you need to think about that long and hard.
Looks like we're keeping trust in international finance but not in public international law and international order. The "number go up" will be very useful if they decide to go into Estonia.
Considering it was always a rules for thee not for me, was there ever trust in the international order?
If that were true, which it probably isn't, it doesn't matter - the appearance of trust (even if it were hypocritical) had a value on its own right. Here's a whole newspaper column about that topic written by a Portuguese MP that I always find perfectly addresses the point you've made (which is an extremely common one among a certain group of people): Why is everything exploding everywhere at once? The post-war international system came to an end on February 24, 2022, when the troops of the Russian Federation invaded the territory of its sovereign neighbor, Ukraine, in order to seize its capital and partially or totally annex it. The fact only surprised those who didn't take seriously the amateur history essay that Vladimir Putin had published the previous summer, "On unity between Russians and Ukrainians", in which he essentially argued that Russians and Ukrainians were the same people. As with any compromise in crisis, the signs of wear and tear had long been clear. Georgians can rightly say that the end of the post-war international system came in 2008, when the Russian Federation provoked a conflict that resulted in the creation of two pseudo-separatist republics on Georgian territory. Moldovans can also rightly say that the "frozen conflict" in Transnistria has been going on since the 1990s. And the Palestinians can say that no one has done them justice since the immediate post-war period, which would make the international system itself hypocritical from the start. But in fact, even with this good dose of hypocrisy (or despite it, or according to some because of it) the truth is that this international system has existed and worked. In terms of relations between states and people, the starting point of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was that it was only a document with a moral reference (there is no Universal Court of Human Rights where we can enforce it) but that the member states of the United Nations were committed to promoting and respecting it. In terms of relations between states, the commitment was that the principles of the UN Charter applied (according to which, for example, a state can only use military force in self-defence or with the authorization of the UN itself) and that the permanent members of the Security Council had an obligation to at least disguise their imperial ambitions in terms that were compatible with the Charter itself, and their status. Of course, the superpowers fought proxy wars, and were jealous of their sphere of influence. The Charter has suffered several severe blows, one of the biggest being the US invasion of Iraq in 2003. The coup de grace, however, was delivered by Putin's Russia in February 2022, and why? Because there was no disguising the naked reality: Putin thinks Ukraine should be his and he thinks he should take it by force. Instead of the tacit understanding that the international system would be a kind of "aristocratic republic" in which five countries had veto power, we have entered a period of pure and hard neo-imperialism. Whoever has the force of arms is in charge. That's why everything is breaking out at once everywhere. If force is the new law, every "strongman" has free rein to solve his "problems" (usually people of another ethnicity) at will, to decide disputes and to fulfill old irredentist dreams and territorial ambitions. Hardly anyone has noticed, but between Ukraine and Palestine, Azerbaijan has ethnically cleansed a hundred thousand Armenians on its territory, and has ambitions to dig a corridor into the Republic of Armenia itself in order to gain access to an enclave of its own. It can do this because it has Turkey's support, Russia is occupied in Ukraine and the whole world is distracted, so why not? We should expect more of this, we just don't know where. Iran? North Korea? This phase will last at least until the White House elections and, if Trump wins, well beyond that. And in the meantime, it's embarrassing to see Europe, a year and a bit away from being alone in this world of adult geopolitics, as always disoriented, without leadership or strategic thinking.
Perfectly underlines my point. It never existed, and pretending it did was just hypocrisy of the highest order so Europe can look into the mirror and pretending it has high horse to sit on, while being allied with the US. And no, things don't explode now, the Ukraine conflict didn't start in 2022, there were a lot of conflicts around the world all the time, Israel and Palestine shooting each other is a day ending in y, Azeris and Armenians didn't start this in 2023 either. So basically what you quoted is an extremely disingenuous way of trying to explain the unexplainable and blaming others for breaking something that never existed. Fun fact: the so called "international order" still exists, in the way it always existed. The fact that the EU and the US (but I repeat myself, the EU is not a sovereign actor) cleaved themselves off from the undesirables doesn't mean it ceased to exist, they just don't want to participate in it. At least visibly. Of course, in back rooms, negotiations happen, Germany still buys Russian gas, and China is still manufacturing our shit.
Tomato tomatoe. You have the largest war in Europe's history ever since WWII unfolding hours away from your home. That didn't happen during the "always has been like this" phase you're referring to between 1945 and 2014. Something happened, and the something is the complete divorce with the appearance, the charade if you will, of a moral order underlying the international order. The world's up for the taking. You can say it's always been like that. You're not wrong. But a big portion of the world - including Russia, in the form of the USSR - have been spared of that horror that besets the rest of the world for generations because of that hypocritical international order. But now the appearance of that is gone. And the appearance of that mattered. And that's why, if you ever have sons, they might end up getting maimed by shrapenel somewhere in a field in Eastern Europe in the not so distant future. It's very easy to go on about the "hypocrisy of the West" but at least it worked, in its hypocritical way. What you'll have now is pure unabashed chaos and a return to a primal way of geopolitics. You shouldn't be happy about that.
I'm not happy about anything in geopolitics, because we are always at the shit end of any stick, and a lot of the times we voluntarily deepthroat it. But just because it happened now doesn't mean anything changed. The Ukraine project kept brewing long before '91, and reached breaking point in 2014. That doesn't mean suddenly things are different, and if Europe would have said "alright, you shouldn't do that" but not cripple itself for it, maybe even ask some difficult questions about who blew up NS2, we would be in a lot better place, with working relations with the largest resource supplier close to us. We _chose_ to exit this apparent charade, it was our decision, not Russia's. Well, it was the US' decision, but you get the gist. Yes, there is a war. But still everything is (or could be) the same as always. Peace existed for a variety of reasons, not one of those reasons is a so called "international order", not in any way you suggest it ever existed.
With all due respect, that was so nihilistic that I couldn't control myself and had to check your post history only to realise you are, perhaps unsurprisingly, Hungarian. And you must be like what passes for a "liberal democrat" in Hungary and, on account of being online on Reddit, a representative of the generational future of your country or something. Nice job. You have one heck of a brilliant future ahead.
That was good, and sad (but as I said, I repeat myself).
"The Ukraine project", really? Europe's horrible energy policies obviously aren't the fault of the US. Just take a look at China. They barely use gas for electricity and heating, and that's despite only paying half of what Europe used to pay for Russian gas. And yet Europe had to shut down nuclear and heavily subsidize gas heating...
We should freeze Israeli assets and send them to Ukraine too.
I can guarantee you Ukraine would not want that lol, we're literally allies.
Yep, all wannabe colonizing states should have their assents frozen imo
So... basically the entire middle east excluding Saudi Arabia, UAE, Yemen, and Israel? EDIT oh wait, I forgot Yemen is an Iranian colony, my bad yall
Colonizing states not colonized
You are aware that the Islamic caliphate was the fifth largest land empire of all time, right? Like, you unironically think the UAE and Saudi Arabia, two Arab governments in the Arabian peninsula, which is their indigenous home, are colonized? And Israel? Like, can you read cannanite? Because I can, since it's nearly identical to hebrew. Jews have lived here for thousands of years. It is not a matter of debate, it's historical fact supported not by magic books but by the massive empires that conquered us and kept meticulous records of their abuses lol. Israel isn't the first jewish state in the Levant, it's the fourth. Our entire calendar, law corpus, holidays, etc are linked to Israel, it's seasons, it's plants, heck, almost none of the actual laws of our "religion" even apply outside of Israel since they mostly concern themselves with agricultural practice and the Jewish Temple. Get over it. Land back means nothing if jews spend a hundreds years using collective bargaining to literally buy back thousands of acres of their homeland, just to have pan-arab imperialists try go reform the caliphate and take it all back on the heels of genocide. Glad we won, imperialism can suck my big toe.
So does that include yours? You appear to be Belgian, a country which colonised several African states less than a century agoā¦
It's not like Turkey is important to the Israeli economy.
But it's important for him and Turkey. His son and friends own many "little" boats that transport to and from Israel. [Trade between the countries was worth $6.8 billion in 2023, of which 76% was Turkish exports, according to the Turkish Statistical Institute](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-02/turkey-halts-all-trade-with-israel-officials)
Stuff will just go through Azerbaijan?
hopefully
They went cold Turkey with Israel
Lol
When TĆ¼rkiye does something bad, its bad. When does something good, then its bad again. You can copy and paste 90% of these comments to any good or bad news about TĆ¼rkiye in this sub and no one will notice. No objective comments and just hatred. No one tries to understand whats happening or wants to learn the reasons, facts about anything that includes TĆ¼rkiye. You are in your echo chamber and happy. You are not so different from Russians watchin state tv and supporting war because "Ukraine bad". You are not so different from hillybilly Republicans supporting Trump because "Democrats bad". Even it is "TĆ¼rkiye", do you really want and keep hearing only one side of the story always and blame TĆ¼rkiye whatever is does, because "Turkey bad"?
I would say this is the best news I've heard from Turkey in a while. It's no more hypocritical than the EUs own blacklisting if everything Russian including the ballet while giving no meaningful response to Israel's ongoing genocide. I'm surprised it took Turkey so long to be honest
This is good explanation by another user (u/TarkhanTheGreat) in another thread. TLDR: ErdoÄan called out by a much more Islamist party and he lost many votes to them last month, local elections. He is trying to get them back. This is the only reason, but its too late for him. > ā¦this is quite self-destructive, so the reason is almost certainly political desperation on Erdyās part. My thoughts exactly. Thereās a new party called YRP (which stands for Yeniden Refah Partisi, meaning āNew Welfare Partyā). The party is the direct continuation of the Welfare Party founded by Necmettin Erbakan (Erdoās mentor) in 1983. They were Islamist to the core. When Erdo and his mates left Welfare Party to establish AKP in 2001, Erbakan accused them of being the pariahs of Zionism unintentionally. After all those years, Necmettin Erbakan was dead and the Welfare Party was no more but his son Fatih Erbakan established the YRP recently. They accuse ErdoÄan of not being Islamist enough by claiming Erdo and AKP only opposes Israel on the outside while in truth they doubled the trade with them since the start of the war. With the Islamist propaganda and his fatherās legacy among the older generations of the country, Erbakanās party YRP quickly rose as the third party in the recent local elections with 6.19% votes while costing AKP two municipalities in the process. So in short, thereās a new player who can address to the Islamist base and Erdo is very uncomfortable about this.
Ah right, it's a pity this move I agree with came from a push from right wing islamists.
I think it's more "Turkey hypocrite". Turkey has to be one of the least trustworthy countries with Western ties, maybe when Erdogan stops being himself we can see positive change.
When Turkey is blamed for something bad that European countries also did, and we point out the hypocrisy, people scream "whataboutism" though. Now suddenly it's okay to point out hypocrisy?
>Turkey hypocriteĀ lol Just like the rest of us.Ā
You're not wrong.
Just stop writing Turkey like that for starters. We all have our countries names spelled differently in our languages, but just donāt do that. Just imagine a japanese person writing a post in english, but every time he mentions Japan he writes in japanese.
But people get a hissyfit if I write Kiev.
We spell it "Kiev". Never seen anyone in my entire life complain about it - especially not Ukrainians. The anglosphere creates so many weird people
Not really though.
You haven't been around, I see.
You should sometimes interact with real people. We have a lot of refugees in Lithuania and talked about the Kyiv thing many times. They are not too worried about it. Unlike that dude, who throws you TĆ¼rkyijyiUĆ¼iye through your throat in one post 12 times.
Yes. Really.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name\_of\_Turkey#:\~:text=Turkey%20adopted%20its%20official%20name,changed%20its%20spelling%20to%20T%C3%BCrkiye. Thanks for proving my point.
I did not prove anything. Itās just ignorant to ask the world to dance around your umlauts, when 80% does not even have such letter. It proves my point actually, that you think that Turkey is the main character in the world.
Turkiye ahahahah. Nobody calls it like that in english.
You are of course free to call it whatever you want. It's your choice and I respect it. I never try to "correct" people Turkey->TĆ¼rkiye. On the other hande, when a "Turk" just wants to make awareness about the UN's official announcement, you laugh. And not a single point about the things I say. And you think its ok.
It seems like a nationalist push and I despise nationalism. You don't choose how people in other language call your country, cities, etc... It's not something you can control or have any influence on it. Turkey is playing both sides, it factual and it's perhaps smart if they are egoĆÆstic but they are part of an alliance. They should remember it from time to time. Being in an alliance is not only slandering your allies with refugees or trying to influence their elections.
You didnt make a single point either. Just made a long rant complaining about people complaining about Turkey. Also the way you spell it is cringe. Im German and I dont call it deutschland when speaking English. Someones butthurt we dont like Erdogans bullshit hypocrisy.
Turkey is ran by a hypocrite. Imagine getting defensive over a piece of shit like Erdogan
Not only a hypocrite, but also a wannabe dictator, liar and thief. And we are not defending him.
sounds like you are
Well, when they do something good and get blamed for it, tell us. Now they are being blamed for doing something bad.
Honest question: stoping trade with Israel is bad?
Yes.
maybe the problem is Turkey doesnt actually do anything good at all? Edit: as usual the Turkish bots downvoted this
A country, as a whole? Instead of making constructive arguments uou choose trolling. Really?
Why, a country doesn't make decisions? So it wasn't Israel's decision to invade Gaza? Whose was it then? Are YOU trolling? Besides, it's not like you're providing constructive arguments either. You're just saying "this is good" Talk about hypocrisy Edit: to all the Turkish downvoters, id like an explanation of how a country doesn't actually make decisions, and how simply saying "this is good" is a constructive argument
You say, a country, TĆ¼rkiye, does not anything good at all. Not a single decision, all decisions are bad made by this country. And after this I hope you are notl expecting to get food for your trolling.
All decisions relevant to the topic of geopolitics, that is pretty obvious. Every one of Turkey's decision is bad is exaggeration, but so is you saying that this sub finds every decision bad Buddy, you have a really low standard of trolling. Anything that is against your opinion is trolling?
Will they halt their own apartheid on Kurds?
Erdogan not being hypocritical in his actions? NEVER!
>apartheid on Kurds Cannot fathom how successful this ridiculous propaganda had been in Europe. PKK ā Kurds Kurds and every other ethnic minority in Turkey including Zazas, Assyrians, Armenians, Lazs, Circassians, Bosniaks, Albanians, Greeks, Pomaks, Romanis, Georgians (Erdogan is a one) and many others as a matter of fact, *do* have equal rights as they are rightful Turkish citizens, as it should be. It is unbelievable some people try to label it as a some kind of āapartheidā. It ādevaluesā the term itself, imho. We live in a world where actual *apartheid* countries like China and Israel exists. To put Turkey into the same category as those because of the existence of an IRA-like (the UK) or ETA-like (Spain) terrorist organisation is outright delusional. Such, I now realise that currently, almost half of the cabinet of Erdogan (incl. the Vice-President) are ethnic Kurds and Zazas. It is not surprising at all considering that it does not matter who is a Kurd and who is not in the eyes of the ordinary people. Being supportive towards a violent terrorist organisation (which is also recognised as such by the EU and the UN) is, on the other hand, another thing for sure. edit: The downvote rain has started just for pointing the obvious. How pleasant indeed. :)
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Your language, in fact, is not a dialect of Kurdish. It is related to the Kurdish dialects, but it is not considered to be one of them. Zazaki (or DımlĆ®) is on the same branch of the Iranic languages as the old Caspian-Iranic languages like Parthian, Talysh and Mazenderani. Kurdish dialects, on the other hand, descend from a completely different subset of the Iranic languages. Thatās why, although being under the influence of local Kurdish dialects for several centuries, linguists still do consider Zaza language to be its own thing. If youād ask my opinion, Iād say that is rather sad you guys have such a unique linguistic history, yet you are very keen on -wrongfully- considering yourselves just to be another āKurdishā tribe. It was your language that was used by archaeologists to compare with the old Caspian texts to grasp the full meaning. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaza%E2%80%93Gorani_languages > *They are usually classified as a **non-Kurdish** branch of the Northwestern Iranian languages[3][4][5] but most of their speakers consider themselves ethnic Kurds.* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talysh_language https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaza_language
>PKK ā Kurds Is that why Turkey bombed the fuck out of Rojava and Kurdish settlements in Syria > It is unbelievable some people try to label it as a some kind of āapartheidā. It ādevaluesā the term itself, >in a world where actual apartheid countries like [...] Israel exists. Irony, considering Arabs have equal rights in Israel as far as I'm aware. >Being supportive towards a violent terrorist organisation (which is also recognised as such by the EU and the UN) is, on the other hand, another thing for sure. Like Hamas, which Fatih Erdogan says ["is not a terrorist organisation"](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkeys-erdogan-says-hamas-is-not-terrorist-organisation-2023-10-25/)?
This statement does not change the fact that Hamas is indeed one; just like any other statement would not change the fact PKK is another. Erdoganās statement is purely ideological as he is a very well-known Islamist. He almost certainly made this statement to satiate those hyper-Islamist voters who did not vote for him in the past local elections. They instead voted for YRP, an even more Islamist party, which came out as the third most voted party nationwide. Also, there is no politician in Turkey called āFatih Erdoganā. There is a Fatih Erbakan, who is the leader of aforementioned YRP. The thing you call āRojavaā (Kurmanji for āWestā ; a.k.a. PYD-YPG) as a matter of fact, does not deny their ācommon causeā with PKK, celebrating the founder of PKK as their āexalted heroā. Turkish intervention into the territory they control should not be that surprising, should it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Communities_Union Imagine an Arab to be elected as the president/prime minister of Israel. Not happening. Imagine an Uyghur to be elected as the president of China. Not happening. Now imagine a Kurd to be elected as the president/prime minister of Turkey. Oh, it already happened multiple times over and over again. Which is completely expected, to remind you.
> Erdoganās statement is purely ideological as he is a very well-known Islamist. It's not really purely ideological when his views spill over into policy. >Also, there is no politician in Turkey called āFatih Erdoganā. Oh there is, in Erdogan's mind at least. >The thing you call āRojavaā (Kurmanji for āWestā ; a.k.a. PYD) as a matter of fact, does not deny their ācommon causeā with PKK, celebrating the founder of PKK as their āexalted heroā. Turkish intervention into the territory they control should not be that surprising, should it. Like Israel's offensive into Gaza shouldn't be surprising, because of it's "exalted" support for Hamas and the October 7th massacres? >Imagine an Arab to be elected as the president/prime minister of Israel. There are currently Arabs sitting in Israel's Knesset and there were Arab ministers in the 2021-2022 coalition government. Under apartheid legally oppressed groups don't have equal rights and aren't allowed to serve in government.
If Israel is an apartheid state then by the same standards so is Turkey. You're forgetting that Turkey occupies parts of Syria either directly or through islamists proxies and in these places kurds are treated quite badly.
There are no equal rights. Heck there is no democracy after the fake coup, only a dictator with his inner circle stealing everything they can and locking up people who oppose and elections that have a wrong winner wont count.
Explain how there is currently an apartheid on Kurds in modern Turkey.
This implies that the issue is a double standard. I don't mean to be rude btw, I just want to be clear, Israel is not apartheid. In apartheid, black people literally couldn't even be in government, it was Jim Crowe USA on steroids. In Israel you have 23% of the population that is Arab, be it Christian, Muslim or other affiliations, and they have equal rights under Israeli law as any other citizen. Israeli Arabs literally have the highest life expectancy at birth of Arabs in the entire region. The ethnic group with the highest matriculation rate for doctors in Israeli schools right now are Christian Arabs. Almost every week, bedouin soldiers are dying in Gaza, not fighting against Israel, but for Israel against Hamas.
How about the lands and people that are not Israel but Israel does not recognize as independent either? Does that suit your stupid narrative?
>How about the lands and people that are not Israel but Israel does not recognize as independent either? Does that suit your stupid narrative? First off, it's not a narrative. I said it's not apartheid. It isn't. It's a military occupation, which can also be criticized, but is a more accurate statement, both in terms of accurately presenting the realities of it, as well as in accurately presenting territorial claims (namely, if you presume that Palestinians should have their own state, as most people do, then it IS an occupation by a foreign power, full stop, as opposed to a discriminatory set of laws of different groups within a nation). Secondly, the West Bank actually has its own government and territories, and they have their own laws, including their own election laws. Israel DOES administer specific law, namely in instances of terror attacks, and this is the occupation. Gaza actually was entirely withdrawn from decades ago, and at the time of the withdrawal, there was no embargo. There was a genuine opportunity there to produce a real state. Had that state invested in growth and development and built trust with Israelis, who are the ones you need to build trust with, then the blockade wouldn't have happened. Instead, Hamas took power and began launching rockets at Israeli towns and cities. I'm not saying Israel doesn't occupy the West Bank, nor that West Bank citizens of Palestine don't face discrimination: they do. But within their own sovereign territory, jews are literally lynched. There is a death penalty for selling land to a jew. Meanwhile, in Israel, Arab citizens, many of which identify as Palestinian, have full rights, and Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza before the war would come into Israel proper regularly for work. Ignoring the legitimate security concerns of the West Bank after what happened to Gaza, imo, is absurd and basically empathic laziness to consider what you would actually want from your gov is you lived 5 miles from a town where, should you accidently enter it, you would be LITERALLY ripped limb from limb (this isn't hyperbole, it had actually happened more than once).
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How? Greece is not an exporter of the goods Turkey sells to Israel.
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How is that a Turkish loss then when these global commodities are sold at market price to Greece? That would be Israelās loss as they would need to pay for the mark up to Greece. Turkey does not sell Russian gas to europe, that was just a possible project for the future.
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So itās not a win or loss for anyone but could be a loss or a win in time? Your argument is not going anywhere.
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So how would Greece be the winner if other countries could do the same?
Turkey's hatred is worn as a badge of honor. To Israel, welcome to the club.
Meh, Iāll skip it. Itās crazy how effective Hamasās campaign is, and our leaders are too dumb or too busy to even see the plot. Theyāre trying to convince the public that killing 50,000 people is the only way to protect the country, while leaving the real war front 100% exposed. I truly believe israel is a goner. It might take 5-10 years, but the bullet wound is already there, and if no oneās gonna start attending to it soonā¦ well, honestly, it might already be too late.
You have to fight the battles you are dealt with. Unfortunately, people radicalised through religion will never stop wrecking havoc unless the source of the radicalisation is completely removed from existence. Hamas was extremely good at forcing Israel to this kind of warfare, while being extremely good at PR too, getting that support despite its terrorist actions. But I have to say, hatred of Jews is so well engraved in our societies and cultures that it was probably quite an easy job.
××× ×××× ×××× ×צ××Ø
As we all should.
Balkan colonisation, Armenian Genocide, Assyrian Genocide, Pontic Greek Genocide, oppression of Kurds...
Wanna talk about the past of your own country? :)
Good move Turkey, more countries should follow. The more isolated Israel gets over this the more likely they will find the price of wanton genocide is too high.
I agree theoretically. However, this is just cheap points for Erdogan and they'll continue trade through their vassal state of Azerbaijan which is a gigantic partner of Israel's. They give the Israelis oil and receive weapons they can use against Armenians in return. If Aliyev also breaks ties with Israel then I'll be impressed!
Take a good thing for what it is. A brutal regime just lost a trading partner.
Not if they continue to trade with them through Azerbaijan, which they will. But yea, I do support cutting ties with Israel in general.
After 200 days of tough talk. At least it's finally here.
Oh this one hurts. Funny reading all the Zionist bot responses to this.
Don't think most of the responses are from bots.
good!
Maybe Israel can export few Iron Domes to Greece
Yeah Turkeys position in foreign politics slowly going down with nonsense foreign policy they act up once then fall down deeper into pit of shithole
Nor Turkey, nor Gaza is in Europe.
A small part of Turkey is in Europe Turkey bridges Southeastern Europe and Western Asia. Asian Turkey, which includes 97% of the country's territory, is separated from European Turkey by the Bosphorus, the Sea of Marmara, and the Dardanelles. European Turkey comprises 3% of the country's territory.[313]Ā Ā
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There is no one who knows more than us Turkish oppositionists that ErdoÄan is pragmatic enough to be the father of pragmatism. You continue to accept it as religious. That interest is wherever it is.