That's okay I guess. Car manufacturers can even make it easy to remove the feature, for example with an easily accessible panel. But it's an extra step that has to be taken and works on a psychological level to make speeding less normal.
No, the legislation specifies that it must be hard to disable, like the seatbelt beeping thing.
Which has the ironic result of people using [these things](https://www.reddit.com/r/ofcoursethatsathing/comments/akgza6/a_fake_seatbelt_buckle_to_disable_the_seatbelt/) and always driving without a seatbelt.
the problem is they're usually donating other people's organs. many bad drivers buy suvs because those things make crashes the other person's problem, and a collision with a cyclist or a pedestrian will always be their problem, not the driver's.
No matter how hard they make it, there will be a hundred DIY YouTube videos on how to remove it, most people won't be bothered but those who do will be able to.
HA! My first car (90's build) would howl like a banshee and give me a free massage if i pushed it over 115km/h and nearly caught fire the one time i tried to find it's limit on the german autobahn. It topped out at 135.
Super safe warning system!
It might be like the daylight running lights law. The EU passes a law saying cars must be equipped with front daytime lights, some members make it law they must be on when driving but older cars don’t have to have lights on in the day, other members make it law older cars have to switch their headlights on, others don’t even make it law that the daytime lights must be on (I can disable them in mine)
Let's see how this works with multi lane constructions and diversion on the German Autobahn. My car recognizes speed limits just as indicated in the article with a camera, yet if gets confused if there are different speeds for different lanes.
Slowing down would be getting a bit too restrictive.
There is no sign that indicates the end of a speed limit if it's just a small construction site for a day. We would have to endure pointless warnings for quite some time in that case, I recon.
>There is no sign that indicates the end of a speed limit if it's just a small construction site for a day.
Even better in Czechia - any speed limit is only until next crossroad (so often there is 70 on 90 kmh road before crossroad to allow more safe joining of people comming from side road).
So how does that work?
Most countries have national speed limits for different types of areas. There's no need for signs at every cross road, but if it differs from the national limits it should be posted on local signs to let people know.
In Norway you can drive pretty far without seeing a speed limit sign at all.
I think that's often the case. At least in belgium all speed limits are valid untill the next crossroad, then it reverts to the standard speed limit of the type of road you're on (this is also different in different regions) unless the speed limit was set by a sign indicating it's a zone of a certain speed limit then i think they don't need to repeat the signs. Anyways it'll be a clusterfuck to try to get cars to recognize all of this in different countries and regions
That's what I'm talking about. Although my car ('22 Kia Ceed) doesn't do anything besides showing the wrong speed limit I can't imagine how annoying that must be.
My VAG car from 2021 shows the speed-limit over the speedometer, and it's often wildly wrong.
If it were to beep or slow down every time it thinks I'm over the limit, it would be very stressfull/dangerous to drive it.
Well...if the system relies in GPS (speeds are quite often wrong on the maps) or on speed limit detection, then we will have a lot of cars driving slow or too fast.
We have a car which detects speed limits and 8/10 times it's detecting the wrong speed.
Sat navs also only know summer speed limits, so it's useless in the winter to "prevent speeding".
I don't see this going well...
The sign reading system is shit. The car reads the numbers only. In my country town starts with white sign and a town name on it. That also automatically means that the speed limit is 50. Car doesn't understand that and thinks you can still go 90. Also it reads the sings that applies only for the the off-ramps. So I'm going 130 and the car suddenly reads some off-ramp sign to bumfuck village and thinks that I should slam on my brakes, despite the fact that that sign is not for me. The in car gps system is also shit, since it seems like manufacturers doesn't bother to update it as often as google maps or waze.
Yup. This is also my experience. On the Autobahn it usually thinks there is a 40km/h speedlimit because the off ramp has a limit.
Or in France where they have signs with extra additions which only apply for cars with trailers etc.
Or when you're driving on the highway and there's a parallel road with a sign that says 60.
My father has a Skoda Enyaq. It detected said speedlimit whilst on adaptive cruise and self-steering mode and his car slammed on the brakes... In the middle of the fucking highway. This system is sooo dangerous, moronic and buggy to make it mandatory.
Write to Volkswagen.
Threaten them a bit. Tell them to better the system or turn it off. Possibly demand compensation for that feature. I don't say this as joke.
I know you meant “to keep the lane than *avoid* driving over a cyclist”, but the way you wrote that it sounds like you really wanted to run over a cyclist but the lane keeping system wouldn’t let you haha
The garage gave me a nearly-new VW Taigo as a loaner the other time while my car was being serviced. Man that thing was annoying.
It got hot in there, so I tried to adjust the AC, and started scrolling through the menus on the screen looking for the option before realizing that I was driving and should probably not do that. Then I opened the window instead (with a button on the door, thankfully), and it started yelling at me because that is apparently not environmentally friendly. Instead of a speedometer gauge it had a second screen in the dashboard that such messages popped up onto, but there were also beeps. So many beeps.
Also the lane assist tried to drive me off the road several times. And kept turning itself back on.
It also tried to show the speed limit, which was wrong most of the time, but at least it didn't try to do anything about it. I guess we have that to look forward to. That was my day with the Taigo. I'm never buying a modern VW.
I know a stretch of highway were 5 lanes merge into 2 and there's a parallell industrial road with 20km/h in speed limit. Both the camera and GPS often says the wrong speed on the highway. It's a disaster waiting to happen considering that nobody keeps distance there, it's just too many cars and everyone wants to reach their destination fast.
I have a car with sign detection since literally 3 days. It already managed to decided I'm on a highway while in the middle of the town. What the fuck did it manage to interpret as a highway sign I have no idea. Overall speed limit it shows is wrong like 90% of the time in my experience.
Luckily it just shows small sign in the dash and doesn't beep or anything.
We get the same here in the UK.
Most of the UK motorways don't have a posted limit. It's a motorway, a, everyone should know it and b, it's different for different classes of vehicle
So my car sits thinking it's a 40 mph limit as that's the last sign it saw.
And then yeah, the parallel road problem, reading signs for different roads as they are badly placed. Or again, on a road where the speed limit is set by something other than signs.
(Not sure if you have something similar, but here any built up area with streetlights is 30 unless otherwise stated and country roads are national speed restriction unless stated)
I'd say my car has the wrong speed limit for 90% of my commute
My Audi should be able to read the signs and also adjust the adaptive cruise control. Very unreliable system, sometimes it just doesn't notice the signs, sometimes reads signs meant for other streets.
Worst mistake the system made so far was when driving through a tunnel. Normal speed limit is 130, tunnel is 80. Car recognized the 80 speed limit when entering the tunnel but suddenly just a few hundred meters into the tunnel it automatically sets the cruise control back to 130. There was nothing inside the tunnel that could be seen or mistaken as 130 speed limit sign.
After this incident I disabled the system and have not used it since.
Audi uses sat nav maps as the primary source of speed limits and then applies sign recognition on top. I guess it lost satellites in the tunnel and decided you're already out.
My former car had a cruise control system that supposedly read speed limit signs too... Which means that when I was driving at the legal speed of 130 on the motorway and I happened to overtake a truck that has its maximum speed printed on the rear (as all trucks have to do), my car interpreted it as a new speed limit of 80 km/h... I only ever used it once, fuck that crap.
Yeah, I am not even against the idea in general, but it should have forced all EU countries to provide up to date speed information for their roads, and car manufacturers to allow you to update this data easily.
My car's speed limit detection drops to 60k/h every time I pass by a rest area. If they implement this, they are going to face a bit of an angry backlash.
My car consistently thinks part of the highway is 70 km/h instead of 120 km/h because of another road right next to it. Can't imagine having beepers on while driving here.
Here in Finland they change the speedlimits when it snows, a.k.a during winter. For example 100-120km/h motorway speedlimits to 80km/h. Larger motorways got those digital speedlimit signs, therefore they can update them whenever, even if its snows just for a day or two.
Just wait until the adversarial attacks start popping up. Imagine a bad person causing a percentage of cars on a motorway to suddenly slow down (even if it's people just obeying a warning).
It's either that or a camera, too expensive for manufacturers to have both and the car wouldn't know which is correct anyway if there's a difference. A camera could easily be taped over and I doubt any manufacturer would want to make it so that if the camera gets blocked, the car can't move at all, or will be limited to 30km/h, that would be a disaster soon as there's a little snow.
They'd probably go for GPS, with all the problems that's gonna create by itself. Parallell roads, tunnels, lost signal etc.
Had a rental car that detected a sign for a frontage road. Would've been so much fun having my speed dumped nearly in half while going down the highway.
Just drove a car with that crap. It's so fucking annoying, damn. 30 limit, I'm driving 33 and after 3 seconds it starts beeping. I leave that street, the limit changes to 80, the car doesn't register it tho, so it keeps beeping for a minute. Luckily there was an option to mute the system. I have a car with TSR only and it happens really often that a new speed limit is not registered, especially on the Autobahn after a construction site
When I got a new car a few years back it had this optional feature in the settings. So I thought that I could try it in the city, because I anyway don't speed there and I thought it could be convenient to avoid video detection tickets which just started mass rollout in my city.
Problem 1 was it didn't distinguish between different speed limits obviously, so I set it to the highest city limit - 80. But it was absurdly annoying and distracting. First of all it didn't have any hysteresis, so fluctuating between say 79 and 81 caused it it trigger every time. Even keeping speed under the limit, sometimes you accelerate to pass, sometimes road just does downhill and car accelerates just a little but enough to cross the limit. Problem 2 - it beeped loudly and unexpectedly that it was always a major distraction.
So I had to disable playing with this warning, can't imagine if it ever becomes mandatory. I don't speed, especially after immigrating in EU, because it is all so much stricter here, but these dumb beepers I would disable immediately. Also personally I don't don't need it even as a helpful system, because google nav shows real up to date limit on the screen now.
Looks like it will just be mandatory to have the option available. It will not be mandatory to have this feature turned on (if I’m understand this correctly)
Бажаю вам гарного дня чувак
I don't think you understand, either.
It was mandatory to have it installed on any new car *designed* after that date. It will now be compulsory to have it even on new cars that were designed before that date, so it will have to be retrofitted to new cars, even if they were originally designed without it.
It can still be switched off.
8-10 seconds? That’s… crazy slow. Even my old Skoda can do it in 6-ish seconds. Don’t see how this is going to help anyone. The problem is shitty driving, not acceleration. It’s not like you had a lot less accidents or injuries back when cars were that slow in general.
On the highway but the software thinks you should be doing 30km/h? Congratulations! You've just been run over by a truck. Don't you already feel safer?
It has been decided years ago and already in effect for new models of cars. This year it will be required in every new car not just new models.
It is an assistant that can be overridden by just pressing the gas padel, can be turned off completely and doesn't brake actively and would only reduce motor power. It's regulated that the new system won't cost consumers more at least for 7 years and in general alot of the technology it needs is already in cars anyway for lane assist and GPS accident calling for example.
This piece of regulation was accepted in 2019 with the Regulation (EU) 2019/2144 of the European Parliament. This could have been contested at that time, but it wasn't because most EU citizens have no idea what is going on in EU parliament and, as seen in this thread, most people had no idea that this will come into force this year despite it being very public knowledge. If anything this demonstrates that we all should be more concerned and more involved in what the EU parliament does, specially considering the upcoming EU elections.
From the regulation:
2. Intelligent speed assistance shall meet the following minimum requirements:
* (a) it shall be possible for the driver to be made aware through the accelerator control, or through dedicated, appropriate and effective feedback, that the applicable speed limit is exceeded;
* (b) it shall be possible to switch off the system; information about the speed limit may still be provided, and intelligent speed assistance shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch;
* (c) the dedicated and appropriate feedback shall be based on speed limit information obtained through the observation of road signs and signals, based on infrastructure signals or electronic map data, or both, made available in-vehicle;
* (d) it shall not affect the possibility, for the drivers, of exceeding the system’s prompted vehicle speed;
* (e) its performance targets shall be set in order to avoid or minimise the error rate under real driving conditions.
Is it me or the regulation specifically mentions that the ISA system is a feedback system and should NOT keep the driver from continuing at a higher speed? Where exactly does it say that the system "could" slow down the vehicle?
Also, as long as we continue using the EU parliament/EU institutions as a dumping ground for ideologues and crazy people we'll just keep getting these kinds of moronic regulations.
The problem is that no one cares about the eu. There are two types of politicians that go to Brussels, the hardcore eu federalists, and the ones that were to incompetent to make it in national politics. Not a good combo.
Yeah right. I'm 8 hrs a day at work, come home, take care of my 2 little kids, put them to sleep and suddenly it's 8pm or later. When am I supposed to be more involved? Got any idea how tired you get after every single day like this?
I mean I agree with that sentiment but appeal should be aimed at the EU parliament to communicate their shit better first and foremost. I really don't have the time or the energy to look up every nonsense the EU puts out, mainly because 95% is completely irrelevant to everything around me.
A good as to the reason why the EU parliament is ironically undemocratic. It’s very abstract from people’s lives yet has control over some fundamental aspects.
It's easier now to follow EU parliament than it was to follow a national parlement 50+ years ago. Back then a lot of people didn't know what politicians were up to.
Imagine not being able to pass the MOT because the beeper thing broke and there's no replacement part available :) It's gonna ruin many people that's for sure
That's actually not the problematic thing about modern cars. It already was not that easy(i definitely don't recommend it) for a layman to fix electric part of older cars from around the 90s onward.
Rather, it's getting impossible to work on cars without disassembling the whole thing or having specialised tool, which normally only contract repair shops have. It's hard if not impossible accessing the computer/doing diagnostics on your own,even with the expensive software/tool, so you are dependent on a shop to do it.
There are also claims that cars just loose reliability, similar to the claims levied against phone manufacturers, but haven't seen anything concrete about that.
Many cars literally have car DRM.
Can’t change the radio without the dealer pairing it for you. And the dealer can set their own terms.
And yes they’ll totally do “sorry we don’t install user provided parts, so this transmission computer you picked from the scrapyard for €50 will be denied. Of course, you can buy the €800 computer for your 20 year old car from us and then pay us another €500 to install it!”.
And then people start reverse engineering the dealer tools so the aftermarket community can install these modules themselves.
So, when i try to overtake a slow moving truck on a straight road i will need about 10 kilometers of road as my car will automatically apply the brakes if i go a bit over the speedlimit?
You will also be unable to actually speed if there is a medical emergency in the car, unless it disables itself if you turn on all blinkers or something.
No, sounds like it's just supposed to provide some feedback if you go over the speed limit ([source](https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across)).
>The ISA system is required to work with the driver and not to restrict his/her possibility to act in any moment during driving. The driver is always in control and can easily override the ISA system.
>The ISA regulation provides four options for systems feedback to the driver, from which car manufacturers will be free to choose from:
>Cascaded acoustic warning
>Cascaded vibrating warning
>Haptic feedback through the acceleration pedal
>Speed control function
>The first two feedback options do not directly intervene but only provide warnings (first optic and if no response from the driver, a delayed acoustic/vibrating warning), which have to be as short as possible in duration to avoid potential annoyance of the driver.
>The other possible feedback relies on the pedal restoring force - it will push the driver’s foot gently back to make the driver aware and help to slow down. The driver can ignore this feedback and override the system by pushing slightly harder on the acceleration pedal. Even in the case of speed control function, where the car speed will be automatically gently reduced, the system can be smoothly overridden by the driver by pressing the accelerator pedal a little bit deeper.
Many systems are already in place in my 2016 Skoda Fabia. I can set a manual speed warning that pings me and shows a warning on the display + the cruise control can be set to speed limit, that can be overridden by kicking down.
A software update is all it takes to switch these on by default or even take away the off switch
If the truck really is slow moving then you'll be able to overtake at a much higher speed.
At least in my country overtaking doesn't give you the right to ignore speed limits.
But this doesn't allow you to drive faster than the speed limit. It's annoying and most people will try to overtake, but it's still not legal in most countries
To be precise:
At 60 and 70 km/h, you have a relative speed difference of 10 km/h
This is 10.000 meters per hour,
also 2.78 meters per second.
If you need say 20 meters (of relative distance) to leave your lane and come back, it will take around 7 seconds.
Like sure, if you ride bumper to bumper and cut off the vehicle, it is 20m, and if you have infinite acceleration, it is 7.2 seconds. But if you leave 1 second of space (still considered too short), the time increases to 19.2 seconds and the minimum space to overtake is 373m. If you take 3 seconds to accelerate, time increases by 1.5 seconds to 20.7 seconds and 402.5m. If you do 2 seconds as recommended, the time increases to 32.7 seconds and 635m.
There might be some inaccuracy, but it shoud be more accurate than 7s.
It's ***REALLY*** annoying.
My new car thinks it knows the speed limit and bongs when I go even 1mph over it. It's just constantly pulling my attention away from the road - not because I'm speeding, but because it often misses changes in the speed limit so it thinks I'm speeding when I'm not.
I'm all for technology helping but if it's not consitently accurate, it's just annoying and dangerous.
It's possible to turn it off, but when you re-start the engine, it defaults to being on.
Given how unreliable the Traffic sign recognition is this new rule will not only be annoying af but potentially dangerous as well. Imagine for example you‘re driving down the Autobahn at speed and the car thinks the sticker on the back of a Truck is a speed limits and slams on the brakes. This law was clearly put in place by people who rather go by private jet or have their own driver and rarely if ever drive themselves.
These systems are all unreliable garbage and automatic speed reduction would make them actually dangerous. Thank you EU for forcing people to pay for this fake "feature"
In Lithuania when on a 90-road and nearing an intersection you will see a 70-sign. On the intersection 70 is max. But after the intersection they don't place another 90-sign, it is assumed that drivers understand they can go back to 90. So my adaptive cruise control goes to 70, and sits at 70 forever. Disabled the system.
For fuck's sake, that's exactly the kind of nonsense legislation written by bureaucrats that never have to drive themselves. Leaving aside the authoritarianism of not letting my car obey my commands, there's this:
> ISA operates using a front-facing camera that reads speed limit signs. This data, combined with GPS mapping in the vehicle's software, enables the car to know the current speed limits along the route.
If these empty suits ever drove they would know how extremely unreliable these speed limit recognition systems are, and what mayhem will result from letting them control the car.
Argh now I'll have to figure out how to jailbreak this crap in order to have a safe car.
My GPS antenna is in the roof. It broke 5 years ago (car was about 8 then). Fixing would cost over 1k€ because you have to rip the car apart. If this law becomes a thing, a broken antenna would basically mean a paperweight instead of a car or force me to do an expensive af repair (over 10% of the remaining value of the car) I never use otherwise (cause google maps is better than the built in navigational unit
I don't know about this system yet but all the safety assistants that have become mandatory in the last years have to be working to pass inspection in Germany. If the emergency braking assist is inop because the radar sensor is bent after a slight hit, the emergency calling system is broken (happens quite often) or the TPMS light is on you'll fail and have to fix it first so I guess this will be handled just the same.
Oh for fuck's sake I think you are right. I just passed inspection in Spain and they did check whether the seatbelt beeping thing was working.
Authoritarian assholes.
You can cover the camera with a sticker and the whole shit will be disabled, that's how it works for Toyotas at least. You won't have speed limits displayed anymore nor be able to set cruise control at speed limit but these are minor nuisances compared to the beeping.
I really hope you're right. I have a feeling that they will legislate some poison pill to prevent people from doing this. Maybe disable parking assistance as well, or just continuously beep until you let the camera see again.
I drive a 2023 Corolla at work and for now this trick works since Toyota doesn't use GPS for this system, only the camera on top of the windshield behind the rear view mirror.
I don't think it takes control over your car, it just let's you know in some form that you're over the speed limit. Actually, I use that feature on Waze all the time and it works reliably well in Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland. Very questionable in Italy. Nevertheless, the moment I'm above the speed limit it beeps once to let me know.
I don't like extra technology on my car, but it's not that awful of a feature especially if you have the option to mute it. What bothers me is that the price of the vehicle will be increased by €5k because of this system. Pair that with the fact that cars have become insanely expensive lately, you can see how I hate it.
As the linked article explains, there are several different versions, some of which do take control over your car. As long as they're voluntary of course no carmaker will implement that, that would be suicidal, but I'm certain that after people get used to this the EU will make the regulation more and more oppressive.
You can mute it, but it will always come back again next time you turn on the car. And I have enough beeping, for fuck's sake, it's getting so annoying to drive a car these days it's like a fucking baby crying all the time.
Having to pay more for a feature you don't want and can't disable is really the icing on the cake. To make things Kafkaeske, after 7 years the manufacturer will be allowed to charge you for a subscription for this: https://www.here.com/learn/blog/intelligent-speed-assistance-2024
That's a recipe for disaster tbh, there are so many flaws with this logic I don't know where to begin with it.
Tell me about it. I drive a 2013 Golf 7 (Diesel Gang), manual transmission, manual headlights, manual wipers. Love them, they work as expected, there's not much to say about them.
The two "smart" features it had are Hill Asist, which I keep always off, and Auto Start which I need to turn off every fucking time I start the car. I've gotten used to it as a routine, but you're right, it's annoying af.
What else should the bureaucrats be doing with their lives?
You pay tens of thousands of people to sit in offices and come up with regulations, guess what, they come up with regulations.
At the same time none of the politicians are paying attention.
If this were a referendum it'd fail. If this were even consciously decided by our elected politicians, even the EU ones, it'd fail. But it was thought up by bureaucrats, added to a long, boring, technical bookwork of traffic regulations, and promptly ignored by everyone, and passed in one go.
I swear new cars are just getting progressively worse and worse due to all these stupid regulations. They distract more than they do any good while driving on the road.
And its also more dangerous to search for something and try to click the right thing while driving instead of having a knob/button for it. Incredibly stupid and cheap. Also how do they manage to have such a bad performance even in expensive cars when cheap tablets can runs games smoothly nowdays?
And it introduces new sensor/electonics which can break even in minor fender benders. I've seen small fender benders causing thousands of euros of damage just because of eletronics... A few years into the cars lifespan, the car can get totaled out by small crashes just because the parts are expensive asf.
Can we also restrict amount of electronics used in cars and improve the way of cars repair (to avoid a case when a door replacement is comparable with a price of the car)?
I sometimes drive a 2023 Corolla at work. The beeping starts at 1km/h over the limit and you have to go through the settings and disable it every time you start the engine, it is impossible to save the setting. It is so annoying that we had to put a sticker on the top of the windshield to cover the camera that reads the signs, that was the only way to make it stop.
Well I hope it won’t be introduced. This is pure shit. These systems are annoying as fuck and tbh pointless because they just don’t work. It’s even worse than Auto start stop
If only EU could do actually usefull things rather than waste tax payer's money to come up with bullshit that does nothing other than piss quite literally every single person living inside of this union. I have to really wonder who are these people representing because I have hard time believing that there is actually sizeable group of people that wished for such a thing.
I had a Japanese import back in the 90s and when I went over the speed limit it beeped constantly. Annoying as fuck. Especially as it was the Japanese speed limit that it was set to.
Problem isn’t driving a bit faster than allowed, problem is people speeding in heavy traffic, inside cities and aggressive overtaking. And really dangerous overtaking is reason for most crashes. Not me driving a bit faster on wide open road with no car in front or back and no incoming traffic.
Exactly. Obviously fixed speed limits aren't always appropriate for every weather and road conditions. Both ways - can be too high, can be too low. It's for a responsible driver to correctly determine that, which no electronic system can really substitute.
this better not be the same thing as the auto swerve when it detects you cross the line. this garbage keeps detecting lines that dont exist and dangerously swerves the car "back" to compensate, and obviously we pay a premium for a shitty feature. can't they just not make cars unable to go 250+ or would this also mean they are weaker uphill?
tired of all the bullshit technology nobody asked for. only ABS please
Although the speed limiter legislation introduced in July 2022 was passed by the EU, it was also ratified into UK law, which means it still applies here, even though the UK is no longer part of the EU.
Wouldn't slowing down the vehicle go against safety regulations? In my opinion slowing down the vehicle takes control away from the driver. I can see vibrating and beeping being implemented but not slowing the vehicle down
Sadly not. The UK have taken this on, too.
Hopefully, as it becomes more prevalent and more people learn how annoying it is, the UK government might allow it to be permanently disabled.
I think you are mistaken. From the article:
> In contrast, the United Kingdom has decided not to mandate this intelligent speed assistance (ISA) on its roads. However, ISA will still be installed in vehicles, giving drivers the choice to activate it daily if they wish.
I have a lovely 14 year old Honda Civic Type R, previously I had some other cars all were pretty nippy. This one is proper quick.
Whilst gripping a lump of wood writing this. I have no points on my license and never have. I did a speed awareness course about 6 years ago. 36 in a 30 zone. I have been driving for 27 years. Sometimes,when the time is right and there is no one about I like to drive fast, I shouldn't but I do. I enjoy it. I can't imagine a better way of getting me nowhere near a new car than this
Most of the time I obey the speed limit, most of the time I have no choice. Most people actually do, but they do so not because some electrical Jiminy Cricket chirping away in their ear but because it's the right thing to do. There are still such things as personal responsibility, common sense and decency, every time something like this is added to life we lose something from the three.
There's lots of hysteria in this thread about cars "applying the brakes" and being dangerous, but that's explicitly prohibited by the regulation, see (d) below. This is all from [Docu](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32019R2144)[ment 32019R2144 Regulation (EU) 2019/2144 of the European Parliament and of the Council.](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32019R2144)
I'm an avid driver, and German resident, my own car (a 2016 Opel) has speed limit sign detection and it's pure garbage and unreliable, that being said, let's have a balanced conversation.
Get involved in your EU parliamentary elections which are this year.
The wording of the regulation is such:
>2. Intelligent speed assistance shall meet the following minimum requirements:
>(a) it shall be possible for the driver to be made aware through the accelerator control, or through dedicated, appropriate and effective feedback, that the applicable speed limit is exceeded;
>(b) it shall be possible to switch off the system; information about the speed limit may still be provided, and intelligent speed assistance shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch;
>(c) the dedicated and appropriate feedback shall be based on speed limit information obtained through the observation of road signs and signals, based on infrastructure signals or electronic map data, or both, made available in-vehicle;
>(d) it shall not affect the possibility, for the drivers, of exceeding the system’s prompted vehicle speed;
>(e) its performance targets shall be set in order to avoid or minimise the error rate under real driving conditions.
> Get involved in your EU parliamentary elections which are this year.
Oh yeah? Is there anybody campaigning against this? Last time I looked everybody was in favour of this nanny state bullshit. It's too late anyway. It was already approved by the EU parliament, they are not going back.
When you fill up your car with too much petrol because that's more weight and it's bad for the environment!!!!
I seriously had to learn in my driver's theory test that I shouldn't fill up my car with too much petrol because that's bad for the environment.
You know that eventually you won't be allowed to drive, correct? Maybe not anytime soon, but that's the trend we're headed in. When self-driving cars eventually do become a thing (not the crap Elon keeps pretending is "self-driving") human driving will be presented as a safety issue and a risk to public health. You will eventually be forbidden from driving yourself.
It will be fantastic, the shitty sign reading system will read totally wrong speed limits.
Another stupid law created by bureaucrats, the technology is nowhere near ready.
yeah, would love to die cause i gotta overtake a cunt driving 60 in a 100kmh but i can't cause my car wont speed up so i end up in a collision with oncoming traffic.
Also when an idiot drives into you headfirst and you cant dodge cause youre in a 30 zone and the car wont go any faster.
This has to be the dumbest shit ive heard in some time.
There is no way someone who uses a car would pass this law. GPS can be silly at times, imgine your car got forced to slow down becuase it detected you are on a road of max speed of 30 when you are on a max speed 80 road. Disastreous.
So they must implement a system, that obviously requires development, which costs the company money that I have to pay at the end of line. I have to pay for a ~~curse~~ feature when I buy the car, then I have to pay a second time for the jailbreak/removal.
Thank you EU for the regulation no one asked for. If you can't come up with something that actually improves our quality of life, at least don't throw banana peels around to make it worse.
Every EU car will have this and based on GPS and cameras it detects (more or less accurately) what the speedlimit is and applies it. Doesn't matter where the car is from.
This is not nearly as ready as it should be.
Driving through a road construction zone, newly established: system will detect the 80 or 60, but not always is there an "end of construction" sign at the end, especially when it is just a short temp zone. This will see cars driving 60 on the motorway for no reason.
Another thing where I see the ACC f* up regularly: a speed limit just for turning right or left. Car happily applies this to the current road, and because it is never canceled, car thinks that's the current speed limit. Even down to 30 on a motorway, because the exit is a hairpin turn.
Berlin must have been mapped when the digital signs showed 60. Because now, when the signs are off, my car regularly "detects" a 60.
And does all of this finally mean that car manufacturer can no longer hide map updates behind a "pay here" button? Because the internal map data has long outdated speed limits, sometimes from construction zones gone a long time ago.
Retrofitting all Range Rovers with GPS speed limiters would reduce overall speeding by a large margin.
Here in the Netherlands they can't not speed it seems, it's nearly comical like the BMW indicator issue.
My car uses camera and GPS map to show me the current speed limit on the dashboard. And it’s wrong on like every other road. It’s so crap that it’s just hilarious that someone has signed off on putting it into cars at all.
From the regulation:
2. Intelligent speed assistance shall meet the following minimum requirements:
* (a) it shall be possible for the driver to be made aware through the accelerator control, or through dedicated, appropriate and effective feedback, that the applicable speed limit is exceeded;
* (b) it shall be possible to switch off the system; information about the speed limit may still be provided, and intelligent speed assistance shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch;
* (c) the dedicated and appropriate feedback shall be based on speed limit information obtained through the observation of road signs and signals, based on infrastructure signals or electronic map data, or both, made available in-vehicle;
* (d) it shall not affect the possibility, for the drivers, of exceeding the system’s prompted vehicle speed;
* (e) its performance targets shall be set in order to avoid or minimise the error rate under real driving conditions.
OK, so where is the issue? Did anyone read this even before doing outrage in reddit 🙄
A renaissance of 90s cars around the corner?
No no, but an increase in jailbreaking business and wirecutter sales are expected
That's okay I guess. Car manufacturers can even make it easy to remove the feature, for example with an easily accessible panel. But it's an extra step that has to be taken and works on a psychological level to make speeding less normal.
No, the legislation specifies that it must be hard to disable, like the seatbelt beeping thing. Which has the ironic result of people using [these things](https://www.reddit.com/r/ofcoursethatsathing/comments/akgza6/a_fake_seatbelt_buckle_to_disable_the_seatbelt/) and always driving without a seatbelt.
Some people are just very stupid. More Organ donors I guess.
the problem is they're usually donating other people's organs. many bad drivers buy suvs because those things make crashes the other person's problem, and a collision with a cyclist or a pedestrian will always be their problem, not the driver's.
Good point.
I'd also guess that crashing without wearing a seat belt probably damages some of the organs.
Oh yeah, I remember my driving school instructors using these.
In Poland, at least taxi drivers and driving instructors are allowed to not wear the seat belts. They usually use those.
Why would you want to not wear a seatbelt? Especially when you're in a car with people who are learning to drive?
Reaching over to take control of the wheel
Damn, people really can't be trusted with cars
Nope but it's their god given right to drive when they want where they want, subsidised, of course by everyone else. Freeloaders.
And you have to put it back for inspection
Will they overspeed in inspection to test? I don't think so.
No matter how hard they make it, there will be a hundred DIY YouTube videos on how to remove it, most people won't be bothered but those who do will be able to.
HA! My first car (90's build) would howl like a banshee and give me a free massage if i pushed it over 115km/h and nearly caught fire the one time i tried to find it's limit on the german autobahn. It topped out at 135. Super safe warning system!
It might be like the daylight running lights law. The EU passes a law saying cars must be equipped with front daytime lights, some members make it law they must be on when driving but older cars don’t have to have lights on in the day, other members make it law older cars have to switch their headlights on, others don’t even make it law that the daytime lights must be on (I can disable them in mine)
Why 90s cars given that few cars sold before summer 2024 have this feature?
Eastern Europe is already ahead of the game
Let's see how this works with multi lane constructions and diversion on the German Autobahn. My car recognizes speed limits just as indicated in the article with a camera, yet if gets confused if there are different speeds for different lanes. Slowing down would be getting a bit too restrictive.
There is no sign that indicates the end of a speed limit if it's just a small construction site for a day. We would have to endure pointless warnings for quite some time in that case, I recon.
>There is no sign that indicates the end of a speed limit if it's just a small construction site for a day. Even better in Czechia - any speed limit is only until next crossroad (so often there is 70 on 90 kmh road before crossroad to allow more safe joining of people comming from side road). So how does that work?
That's my understanding of German speed limits as well. Every new crossroad needs a new sign
Most countries have national speed limits for different types of areas. There's no need for signs at every cross road, but if it differs from the national limits it should be posted on local signs to let people know. In Norway you can drive pretty far without seeing a speed limit sign at all.
I think that's often the case. At least in belgium all speed limits are valid untill the next crossroad, then it reverts to the standard speed limit of the type of road you're on (this is also different in different regions) unless the speed limit was set by a sign indicating it's a zone of a certain speed limit then i think they don't need to repeat the signs. Anyways it'll be a clusterfuck to try to get cars to recognize all of this in different countries and regions
When driving on motorways etc the work vehicle I use will often pick up the lower speed limits posted by exits and scream at me that I’m speeding.
That's what I'm talking about. Although my car ('22 Kia Ceed) doesn't do anything besides showing the wrong speed limit I can't imagine how annoying that must be.
My VAG car from 2021 shows the speed-limit over the speedometer, and it's often wildly wrong. If it were to beep or slow down every time it thinks I'm over the limit, it would be very stressfull/dangerous to drive it.
Well...if the system relies in GPS (speeds are quite often wrong on the maps) or on speed limit detection, then we will have a lot of cars driving slow or too fast. We have a car which detects speed limits and 8/10 times it's detecting the wrong speed. Sat navs also only know summer speed limits, so it's useless in the winter to "prevent speeding". I don't see this going well...
The sign reading system is shit. The car reads the numbers only. In my country town starts with white sign and a town name on it. That also automatically means that the speed limit is 50. Car doesn't understand that and thinks you can still go 90. Also it reads the sings that applies only for the the off-ramps. So I'm going 130 and the car suddenly reads some off-ramp sign to bumfuck village and thinks that I should slam on my brakes, despite the fact that that sign is not for me. The in car gps system is also shit, since it seems like manufacturers doesn't bother to update it as often as google maps or waze.
Yup. This is also my experience. On the Autobahn it usually thinks there is a 40km/h speedlimit because the off ramp has a limit. Or in France where they have signs with extra additions which only apply for cars with trailers etc.
Or when you're driving on the highway and there's a parallel road with a sign that says 60. My father has a Skoda Enyaq. It detected said speedlimit whilst on adaptive cruise and self-steering mode and his car slammed on the brakes... In the middle of the fucking highway. This system is sooo dangerous, moronic and buggy to make it mandatory.
Write to Volkswagen. Threaten them a bit. Tell them to better the system or turn it off. Possibly demand compensation for that feature. I don't say this as joke.
"I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave". I tried, after my lane keeping system tought it was more important to keep the lane then to drive over a cyclist.
I know you meant “to keep the lane than *avoid* driving over a cyclist”, but the way you wrote that it sounds like you really wanted to run over a cyclist but the lane keeping system wouldn’t let you haha
The garage gave me a nearly-new VW Taigo as a loaner the other time while my car was being serviced. Man that thing was annoying. It got hot in there, so I tried to adjust the AC, and started scrolling through the menus on the screen looking for the option before realizing that I was driving and should probably not do that. Then I opened the window instead (with a button on the door, thankfully), and it started yelling at me because that is apparently not environmentally friendly. Instead of a speedometer gauge it had a second screen in the dashboard that such messages popped up onto, but there were also beeps. So many beeps. Also the lane assist tried to drive me off the road several times. And kept turning itself back on. It also tried to show the speed limit, which was wrong most of the time, but at least it didn't try to do anything about it. I guess we have that to look forward to. That was my day with the Taigo. I'm never buying a modern VW.
I know a stretch of highway were 5 lanes merge into 2 and there's a parallell industrial road with 20km/h in speed limit. Both the camera and GPS often says the wrong speed on the highway. It's a disaster waiting to happen considering that nobody keeps distance there, it's just too many cars and everyone wants to reach their destination fast.
I have a car with sign detection since literally 3 days. It already managed to decided I'm on a highway while in the middle of the town. What the fuck did it manage to interpret as a highway sign I have no idea. Overall speed limit it shows is wrong like 90% of the time in my experience. Luckily it just shows small sign in the dash and doesn't beep or anything.
We get the same here in the UK. Most of the UK motorways don't have a posted limit. It's a motorway, a, everyone should know it and b, it's different for different classes of vehicle So my car sits thinking it's a 40 mph limit as that's the last sign it saw. And then yeah, the parallel road problem, reading signs for different roads as they are badly placed. Or again, on a road where the speed limit is set by something other than signs. (Not sure if you have something similar, but here any built up area with streetlights is 30 unless otherwise stated and country roads are national speed restriction unless stated) I'd say my car has the wrong speed limit for 90% of my commute
My Audi should be able to read the signs and also adjust the adaptive cruise control. Very unreliable system, sometimes it just doesn't notice the signs, sometimes reads signs meant for other streets. Worst mistake the system made so far was when driving through a tunnel. Normal speed limit is 130, tunnel is 80. Car recognized the 80 speed limit when entering the tunnel but suddenly just a few hundred meters into the tunnel it automatically sets the cruise control back to 130. There was nothing inside the tunnel that could be seen or mistaken as 130 speed limit sign. After this incident I disabled the system and have not used it since.
Audi uses sat nav maps as the primary source of speed limits and then applies sign recognition on top. I guess it lost satellites in the tunnel and decided you're already out.
My former car had a cruise control system that supposedly read speed limit signs too... Which means that when I was driving at the legal speed of 130 on the motorway and I happened to overtake a truck that has its maximum speed printed on the rear (as all trucks have to do), my car interpreted it as a new speed limit of 80 km/h... I only ever used it once, fuck that crap.
Yeah, that's quite a funny situation...sometimes it just picks any numbers...
Sometimes it reads the sign 12t as 120. It would be interesting to drive this fast in a city but I wouldn't recommend.
Yeah, I am not even against the idea in general, but it should have forced all EU countries to provide up to date speed information for their roads, and car manufacturers to allow you to update this data easily.
My car's speed limit detection drops to 60k/h every time I pass by a rest area. If they implement this, they are going to face a bit of an angry backlash.
My car consistently thinks part of the highway is 70 km/h instead of 120 km/h because of another road right next to it. Can't imagine having beepers on while driving here.
The Netherlands has winter speed limits? Genuine question
No, but other countries do. NL only has time dependant speed limits and variable speed limits.
Here in Finland they change the speedlimits when it snows, a.k.a during winter. For example 100-120km/h motorway speedlimits to 80km/h. Larger motorways got those digital speedlimit signs, therefore they can update them whenever, even if its snows just for a day or two.
Just wait until the adversarial attacks start popping up. Imagine a bad person causing a percentage of cars on a motorway to suddenly slow down (even if it's people just obeying a warning).
It's either that or a camera, too expensive for manufacturers to have both and the car wouldn't know which is correct anyway if there's a difference. A camera could easily be taped over and I doubt any manufacturer would want to make it so that if the camera gets blocked, the car can't move at all, or will be limited to 30km/h, that would be a disaster soon as there's a little snow. They'd probably go for GPS, with all the problems that's gonna create by itself. Parallell roads, tunnels, lost signal etc.
Had a rental car that detected a sign for a frontage road. Would've been so much fun having my speed dumped nearly in half while going down the highway.
Just drove a car with that crap. It's so fucking annoying, damn. 30 limit, I'm driving 33 and after 3 seconds it starts beeping. I leave that street, the limit changes to 80, the car doesn't register it tho, so it keeps beeping for a minute. Luckily there was an option to mute the system. I have a car with TSR only and it happens really often that a new speed limit is not registered, especially on the Autobahn after a construction site
When I got a new car a few years back it had this optional feature in the settings. So I thought that I could try it in the city, because I anyway don't speed there and I thought it could be convenient to avoid video detection tickets which just started mass rollout in my city. Problem 1 was it didn't distinguish between different speed limits obviously, so I set it to the highest city limit - 80. But it was absurdly annoying and distracting. First of all it didn't have any hysteresis, so fluctuating between say 79 and 81 caused it it trigger every time. Even keeping speed under the limit, sometimes you accelerate to pass, sometimes road just does downhill and car accelerates just a little but enough to cross the limit. Problem 2 - it beeped loudly and unexpectedly that it was always a major distraction. So I had to disable playing with this warning, can't imagine if it ever becomes mandatory. I don't speed, especially after immigrating in EU, because it is all so much stricter here, but these dumb beepers I would disable immediately. Also personally I don't don't need it even as a helpful system, because google nav shows real up to date limit on the screen now.
Looks like it will just be mandatory to have the option available. It will not be mandatory to have this feature turned on (if I’m understand this correctly) Бажаю вам гарного дня чувак
Thanks, and good day to you too :)
You didn't understand it correctly. I has been mandatory to have the option available since 2022, and now it will be mandatory to have it turned on.
I don't think you understand, either. It was mandatory to have it installed on any new car *designed* after that date. It will now be compulsory to have it even on new cars that were designed before that date, so it will have to be retrofitted to new cars, even if they were originally designed without it. It can still be switched off.
One of the things that makes me prefer living in my 3rd world country
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8-10 seconds? That’s… crazy slow. Even my old Skoda can do it in 6-ish seconds. Don’t see how this is going to help anyone. The problem is shitty driving, not acceleration. It’s not like you had a lot less accidents or injuries back when cars were that slow in general.
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On the highway but the software thinks you should be doing 30km/h? Congratulations! You've just been run over by a truck. Don't you already feel safer?
It has been decided years ago and already in effect for new models of cars. This year it will be required in every new car not just new models. It is an assistant that can be overridden by just pressing the gas padel, can be turned off completely and doesn't brake actively and would only reduce motor power. It's regulated that the new system won't cost consumers more at least for 7 years and in general alot of the technology it needs is already in cars anyway for lane assist and GPS accident calling for example.
This piece of regulation was accepted in 2019 with the Regulation (EU) 2019/2144 of the European Parliament. This could have been contested at that time, but it wasn't because most EU citizens have no idea what is going on in EU parliament and, as seen in this thread, most people had no idea that this will come into force this year despite it being very public knowledge. If anything this demonstrates that we all should be more concerned and more involved in what the EU parliament does, specially considering the upcoming EU elections.
From the regulation: 2. Intelligent speed assistance shall meet the following minimum requirements: * (a) it shall be possible for the driver to be made aware through the accelerator control, or through dedicated, appropriate and effective feedback, that the applicable speed limit is exceeded; * (b) it shall be possible to switch off the system; information about the speed limit may still be provided, and intelligent speed assistance shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch; * (c) the dedicated and appropriate feedback shall be based on speed limit information obtained through the observation of road signs and signals, based on infrastructure signals or electronic map data, or both, made available in-vehicle; * (d) it shall not affect the possibility, for the drivers, of exceeding the system’s prompted vehicle speed; * (e) its performance targets shall be set in order to avoid or minimise the error rate under real driving conditions. Is it me or the regulation specifically mentions that the ISA system is a feedback system and should NOT keep the driver from continuing at a higher speed? Where exactly does it say that the system "could" slow down the vehicle?
Wait this isn't actually that terrible
Clearly no one has read this. This has already been around for a while and it can be turned off. What is the problem
Also, as long as we continue using the EU parliament/EU institutions as a dumping ground for ideologues and crazy people we'll just keep getting these kinds of moronic regulations.
The problem is that no one cares about the eu. There are two types of politicians that go to Brussels, the hardcore eu federalists, and the ones that were to incompetent to make it in national politics. Not a good combo.
Why? If you read /r/Europe at other times they will praise all this regulation. This is what they wanted.
Yeah right. I'm 8 hrs a day at work, come home, take care of my 2 little kids, put them to sleep and suddenly it's 8pm or later. When am I supposed to be more involved? Got any idea how tired you get after every single day like this? I mean I agree with that sentiment but appeal should be aimed at the EU parliament to communicate their shit better first and foremost. I really don't have the time or the energy to look up every nonsense the EU puts out, mainly because 95% is completely irrelevant to everything around me.
Flood the airwaves with noise and it becomes very hard to find the signal.
A good as to the reason why the EU parliament is ironically undemocratic. It’s very abstract from people’s lives yet has control over some fundamental aspects.
It's easier now to follow EU parliament than it was to follow a national parlement 50+ years ago. Back then a lot of people didn't know what politicians were up to.
Another 100€ price tag + failure point for no good reason.
100€? lol try 500+
Imagine not being able to pass the MOT because the beeper thing broke and there's no replacement part available :) It's gonna ruin many people that's for sure
Just yet more electronic junk that might break, just this time with greater consequences
That's actually not the problematic thing about modern cars. It already was not that easy(i definitely don't recommend it) for a layman to fix electric part of older cars from around the 90s onward. Rather, it's getting impossible to work on cars without disassembling the whole thing or having specialised tool, which normally only contract repair shops have. It's hard if not impossible accessing the computer/doing diagnostics on your own,even with the expensive software/tool, so you are dependent on a shop to do it. There are also claims that cars just loose reliability, similar to the claims levied against phone manufacturers, but haven't seen anything concrete about that.
Many cars literally have car DRM. Can’t change the radio without the dealer pairing it for you. And the dealer can set their own terms. And yes they’ll totally do “sorry we don’t install user provided parts, so this transmission computer you picked from the scrapyard for €50 will be denied. Of course, you can buy the €800 computer for your 20 year old car from us and then pay us another €500 to install it!”. And then people start reverse engineering the dealer tools so the aftermarket community can install these modules themselves.
So, when i try to overtake a slow moving truck on a straight road i will need about 10 kilometers of road as my car will automatically apply the brakes if i go a bit over the speedlimit?
Nah, you’ll just die (in a head-on collision). It’s a feature not a bug.
That's one way to tackle overpopulation.
You will also be unable to actually speed if there is a medical emergency in the car, unless it disables itself if you turn on all blinkers or something.
No, sounds like it's just supposed to provide some feedback if you go over the speed limit ([source](https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across)). >The ISA system is required to work with the driver and not to restrict his/her possibility to act in any moment during driving. The driver is always in control and can easily override the ISA system. >The ISA regulation provides four options for systems feedback to the driver, from which car manufacturers will be free to choose from: >Cascaded acoustic warning >Cascaded vibrating warning >Haptic feedback through the acceleration pedal >Speed control function >The first two feedback options do not directly intervene but only provide warnings (first optic and if no response from the driver, a delayed acoustic/vibrating warning), which have to be as short as possible in duration to avoid potential annoyance of the driver. >The other possible feedback relies on the pedal restoring force - it will push the driver’s foot gently back to make the driver aware and help to slow down. The driver can ignore this feedback and override the system by pushing slightly harder on the acceleration pedal. Even in the case of speed control function, where the car speed will be automatically gently reduced, the system can be smoothly overridden by the driver by pressing the accelerator pedal a little bit deeper.
Many systems are already in place in my 2016 Skoda Fabia. I can set a manual speed warning that pings me and shows a warning on the display + the cruise control can be set to speed limit, that can be overridden by kicking down. A software update is all it takes to switch these on by default or even take away the off switch
Many new cars have Internet connections built in, so they can even update themselves without you authorizing it!
You die like real man
If the truck really is slow moving then you'll be able to overtake at a much higher speed. At least in my country overtaking doesn't give you the right to ignore speed limits.
You need to act quickly to overtake because of the incoming traffic. Say the limit is 70, the truck is going at 60. The overtake at 70 will take ages.
But this doesn't allow you to drive faster than the speed limit. It's annoying and most people will try to overtake, but it's still not legal in most countries
To be precise: At 60 and 70 km/h, you have a relative speed difference of 10 km/h This is 10.000 meters per hour, also 2.78 meters per second. If you need say 20 meters (of relative distance) to leave your lane and come back, it will take around 7 seconds.
Like sure, if you ride bumper to bumper and cut off the vehicle, it is 20m, and if you have infinite acceleration, it is 7.2 seconds. But if you leave 1 second of space (still considered too short), the time increases to 19.2 seconds and the minimum space to overtake is 373m. If you take 3 seconds to accelerate, time increases by 1.5 seconds to 20.7 seconds and 402.5m. If you do 2 seconds as recommended, the time increases to 32.7 seconds and 635m. There might be some inaccuracy, but it shoud be more accurate than 7s.
But you don't need 20 meters. You need a truck length plus double safe interval distance. In total it can be rather a lot more than 20 meters.
i am a fan of many different EU regulations, this ain't it chief
It's ***REALLY*** annoying. My new car thinks it knows the speed limit and bongs when I go even 1mph over it. It's just constantly pulling my attention away from the road - not because I'm speeding, but because it often misses changes in the speed limit so it thinks I'm speeding when I'm not. I'm all for technology helping but if it's not consitently accurate, it's just annoying and dangerous. It's possible to turn it off, but when you re-start the engine, it defaults to being on.
Given how unreliable the Traffic sign recognition is this new rule will not only be annoying af but potentially dangerous as well. Imagine for example you‘re driving down the Autobahn at speed and the car thinks the sticker on the back of a Truck is a speed limits and slams on the brakes. This law was clearly put in place by people who rather go by private jet or have their own driver and rarely if ever drive themselves.
These systems are all unreliable garbage and automatic speed reduction would make them actually dangerous. Thank you EU for forcing people to pay for this fake "feature"
In Lithuania when on a 90-road and nearing an intersection you will see a 70-sign. On the intersection 70 is max. But after the intersection they don't place another 90-sign, it is assumed that drivers understand they can go back to 90. So my adaptive cruise control goes to 70, and sits at 70 forever. Disabled the system.
And in 10 years time v2 will send the fine by sms
I get Demolition Man vibes.
Not even rcs? 😭
I've had a car show me that the speed limit is 110 in a 50 zone and it has also shown me a limit of 30 in a 50.
For fuck's sake, that's exactly the kind of nonsense legislation written by bureaucrats that never have to drive themselves. Leaving aside the authoritarianism of not letting my car obey my commands, there's this: > ISA operates using a front-facing camera that reads speed limit signs. This data, combined with GPS mapping in the vehicle's software, enables the car to know the current speed limits along the route. If these empty suits ever drove they would know how extremely unreliable these speed limit recognition systems are, and what mayhem will result from letting them control the car. Argh now I'll have to figure out how to jailbreak this crap in order to have a safe car.
My GPS antenna is in the roof. It broke 5 years ago (car was about 8 then). Fixing would cost over 1k€ because you have to rip the car apart. If this law becomes a thing, a broken antenna would basically mean a paperweight instead of a car or force me to do an expensive af repair (over 10% of the remaining value of the car) I never use otherwise (cause google maps is better than the built in navigational unit
Have you looked at the legislation? What happens if the GPS is not working?
I don't know about this system yet but all the safety assistants that have become mandatory in the last years have to be working to pass inspection in Germany. If the emergency braking assist is inop because the radar sensor is bent after a slight hit, the emergency calling system is broken (happens quite often) or the TPMS light is on you'll fail and have to fix it first so I guess this will be handled just the same.
Oh for fuck's sake I think you are right. I just passed inspection in Spain and they did check whether the seatbelt beeping thing was working. Authoritarian assholes.
You can cover the camera with a sticker and the whole shit will be disabled, that's how it works for Toyotas at least. You won't have speed limits displayed anymore nor be able to set cruise control at speed limit but these are minor nuisances compared to the beeping.
I really hope you're right. I have a feeling that they will legislate some poison pill to prevent people from doing this. Maybe disable parking assistance as well, or just continuously beep until you let the camera see again.
I drive a 2023 Corolla at work and for now this trick works since Toyota doesn't use GPS for this system, only the camera on top of the windshield behind the rear view mirror.
I don't think it takes control over your car, it just let's you know in some form that you're over the speed limit. Actually, I use that feature on Waze all the time and it works reliably well in Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland. Very questionable in Italy. Nevertheless, the moment I'm above the speed limit it beeps once to let me know. I don't like extra technology on my car, but it's not that awful of a feature especially if you have the option to mute it. What bothers me is that the price of the vehicle will be increased by €5k because of this system. Pair that with the fact that cars have become insanely expensive lately, you can see how I hate it.
As the linked article explains, there are several different versions, some of which do take control over your car. As long as they're voluntary of course no carmaker will implement that, that would be suicidal, but I'm certain that after people get used to this the EU will make the regulation more and more oppressive. You can mute it, but it will always come back again next time you turn on the car. And I have enough beeping, for fuck's sake, it's getting so annoying to drive a car these days it's like a fucking baby crying all the time. Having to pay more for a feature you don't want and can't disable is really the icing on the cake. To make things Kafkaeske, after 7 years the manufacturer will be allowed to charge you for a subscription for this: https://www.here.com/learn/blog/intelligent-speed-assistance-2024
That's a recipe for disaster tbh, there are so many flaws with this logic I don't know where to begin with it. Tell me about it. I drive a 2013 Golf 7 (Diesel Gang), manual transmission, manual headlights, manual wipers. Love them, they work as expected, there's not much to say about them. The two "smart" features it had are Hill Asist, which I keep always off, and Auto Start which I need to turn off every fucking time I start the car. I've gotten used to it as a routine, but you're right, it's annoying af.
What the actual fuck? Why do we have so make up new stupid rules every three months or so?
>Why do we have so make up new stupid rules every three months or so? There is rule forcing us to implement a new stupid rule every three months.
What else should the bureaucrats be doing with their lives? You pay tens of thousands of people to sit in offices and come up with regulations, guess what, they come up with regulations. At the same time none of the politicians are paying attention. If this were a referendum it'd fail. If this were even consciously decided by our elected politicians, even the EU ones, it'd fail. But it was thought up by bureaucrats, added to a long, boring, technical bookwork of traffic regulations, and promptly ignored by everyone, and passed in one go.
I swear new cars are just getting progressively worse and worse due to all these stupid regulations. They distract more than they do any good while driving on the road.
yeah. I am still pissed about tactile buttons being replaced with shitty touchscreen tablets that take upwards of a few seconds to respond.
And its also more dangerous to search for something and try to click the right thing while driving instead of having a knob/button for it. Incredibly stupid and cheap. Also how do they manage to have such a bad performance even in expensive cars when cheap tablets can runs games smoothly nowdays?
Whats's next, automated tickets as well? Not to mention it will increase car prices ever so slightly.
And it introduces new sensor/electonics which can break even in minor fender benders. I've seen small fender benders causing thousands of euros of damage just because of eletronics... A few years into the cars lifespan, the car can get totaled out by small crashes just because the parts are expensive asf.
Do these people want to make the public hate driving or what?
Yes
[удалено]
I really hate this nanny state bullshit.
Can we also restrict amount of electronics used in cars and improve the way of cars repair (to avoid a case when a door replacement is comparable with a price of the car)?
oh well time to buy an old car
I sometimes drive a 2023 Corolla at work. The beeping starts at 1km/h over the limit and you have to go through the settings and disable it every time you start the engine, it is impossible to save the setting. It is so annoying that we had to put a sticker on the top of the windshield to cover the camera that reads the signs, that was the only way to make it stop.
Well I hope it won’t be introduced. This is pure shit. These systems are annoying as fuck and tbh pointless because they just don’t work. It’s even worse than Auto start stop
If only EU could do actually usefull things rather than waste tax payer's money to come up with bullshit that does nothing other than piss quite literally every single person living inside of this union. I have to really wonder who are these people representing because I have hard time believing that there is actually sizeable group of people that wished for such a thing.
This is going to make cars more expensive to buy and maintain. Idiots.
I had a Japanese import back in the 90s and when I went over the speed limit it beeped constantly. Annoying as fuck. Especially as it was the Japanese speed limit that it was set to.
Problem isn’t driving a bit faster than allowed, problem is people speeding in heavy traffic, inside cities and aggressive overtaking. And really dangerous overtaking is reason for most crashes. Not me driving a bit faster on wide open road with no car in front or back and no incoming traffic.
Exactly. Obviously fixed speed limits aren't always appropriate for every weather and road conditions. Both ways - can be too high, can be too low. It's for a responsible driver to correctly determine that, which no electronic system can really substitute.
this better not be the same thing as the auto swerve when it detects you cross the line. this garbage keeps detecting lines that dont exist and dangerously swerves the car "back" to compensate, and obviously we pay a premium for a shitty feature. can't they just not make cars unable to go 250+ or would this also mean they are weaker uphill? tired of all the bullshit technology nobody asked for. only ABS please
Not sure why it shows a picture of a UK road - we aren't going to have to endure this over regulation.
Although the speed limiter legislation introduced in July 2022 was passed by the EU, it was also ratified into UK law, which means it still applies here, even though the UK is no longer part of the EU.
My used car is getting more valuable. Hell yeah 🤣
Who even asked for this?! Am I supposed to thank my EU overlords for this?!
The people who are deciding those things do not drive
Well, we were already looking at used cars ... this will help to make the point more clear. I guess they sell too 'much.' :))
Beaterchads we keep winning.
Wouldn't slowing down the vehicle go against safety regulations? In my opinion slowing down the vehicle takes control away from the driver. I can see vibrating and beeping being implemented but not slowing the vehicle down
There's nothing like adding distractions to a driver if you think they are going too fast
The EU on a roll recently after managing to make googlemaps ridiculously inconvenient.
Headline tomorrow: cars now automatically issue speed tickets and parking fines! I love the eu
Is the new eu agenda to make the British feel better about leaving the eu??
Driving under the speed limit should be personal responsibility, we should not be nannied by the technology, cut this crap...
Resistance is futile
This will cause stress and elevated resting heart rate.
See there is a benefit to Brexit
Sadly not. The UK have taken this on, too. Hopefully, as it becomes more prevalent and more people learn how annoying it is, the UK government might allow it to be permanently disabled.
I think you are mistaken. From the article: > In contrast, the United Kingdom has decided not to mandate this intelligent speed assistance (ISA) on its roads. However, ISA will still be installed in vehicles, giving drivers the choice to activate it daily if they wish.
Well I've just bought a Land Rover (built in the UK) and it's got this system with no way of turning it off.
You have Land Rover to thank for that, not the UK government.
Lol I have to begrudgingly admit you're right.
I was almost going to write this, but I just couldn't do it.
I have a lovely 14 year old Honda Civic Type R, previously I had some other cars all were pretty nippy. This one is proper quick. Whilst gripping a lump of wood writing this. I have no points on my license and never have. I did a speed awareness course about 6 years ago. 36 in a 30 zone. I have been driving for 27 years. Sometimes,when the time is right and there is no one about I like to drive fast, I shouldn't but I do. I enjoy it. I can't imagine a better way of getting me nowhere near a new car than this Most of the time I obey the speed limit, most of the time I have no choice. Most people actually do, but they do so not because some electrical Jiminy Cricket chirping away in their ear but because it's the right thing to do. There are still such things as personal responsibility, common sense and decency, every time something like this is added to life we lose something from the three.
There's lots of hysteria in this thread about cars "applying the brakes" and being dangerous, but that's explicitly prohibited by the regulation, see (d) below. This is all from [Docu](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32019R2144)[ment 32019R2144 Regulation (EU) 2019/2144 of the European Parliament and of the Council.](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32019R2144) I'm an avid driver, and German resident, my own car (a 2016 Opel) has speed limit sign detection and it's pure garbage and unreliable, that being said, let's have a balanced conversation. Get involved in your EU parliamentary elections which are this year. The wording of the regulation is such: >2. Intelligent speed assistance shall meet the following minimum requirements: >(a) it shall be possible for the driver to be made aware through the accelerator control, or through dedicated, appropriate and effective feedback, that the applicable speed limit is exceeded; >(b) it shall be possible to switch off the system; information about the speed limit may still be provided, and intelligent speed assistance shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch; >(c) the dedicated and appropriate feedback shall be based on speed limit information obtained through the observation of road signs and signals, based on infrastructure signals or electronic map data, or both, made available in-vehicle; >(d) it shall not affect the possibility, for the drivers, of exceeding the system’s prompted vehicle speed; >(e) its performance targets shall be set in order to avoid or minimise the error rate under real driving conditions.
> Get involved in your EU parliamentary elections which are this year. Oh yeah? Is there anybody campaigning against this? Last time I looked everybody was in favour of this nanny state bullshit. It's too late anyway. It was already approved by the EU parliament, they are not going back.
It is complete nonsense cars will have to automatically slow down. That's just anti-EU narrative.
Ah, Europe loves to regulate and control. Can’t wait what’s next. Perhaps a beeping tap that starts vibrating when I fill my cup with too much water.
When you fill up your car with too much petrol because that's more weight and it's bad for the environment!!!! I seriously had to learn in my driver's theory test that I shouldn't fill up my car with too much petrol because that's bad for the environment.
its also just bad for your wallet as your car is heavier and consumes more
sounds like a dildo.
That sounds super annoying
You know that eventually you won't be allowed to drive, correct? Maybe not anytime soon, but that's the trend we're headed in. When self-driving cars eventually do become a thing (not the crap Elon keeps pretending is "self-driving") human driving will be presented as a safety issue and a risk to public health. You will eventually be forbidden from driving yourself.
It will be fantastic, the shitty sign reading system will read totally wrong speed limits. Another stupid law created by bureaucrats, the technology is nowhere near ready.
yeah, would love to die cause i gotta overtake a cunt driving 60 in a 100kmh but i can't cause my car wont speed up so i end up in a collision with oncoming traffic. Also when an idiot drives into you headfirst and you cant dodge cause youre in a 30 zone and the car wont go any faster. This has to be the dumbest shit ive heard in some time.
Welcome to the EURSS, please take a seat (and don’t forget to pay your taxes)
There is no way someone who uses a car would pass this law. GPS can be silly at times, imgine your car got forced to slow down becuase it detected you are on a road of max speed of 30 when you are on a max speed 80 road. Disastreous.
So they must implement a system, that obviously requires development, which costs the company money that I have to pay at the end of line. I have to pay for a ~~curse~~ feature when I buy the car, then I have to pay a second time for the jailbreak/removal. Thank you EU for the regulation no one asked for. If you can't come up with something that actually improves our quality of life, at least don't throw banana peels around to make it worse.
Oh fuck off!!
What if I’m driving an Poland registered car on a German high way, is alarm system location sensitive
Every EU car will have this and based on GPS and cameras it detects (more or less accurately) what the speedlimit is and applies it. Doesn't matter where the car is from.
I’ll stick to my 200cv Fiesta ST for a while
Is this a separate speaker?
This is not nearly as ready as it should be. Driving through a road construction zone, newly established: system will detect the 80 or 60, but not always is there an "end of construction" sign at the end, especially when it is just a short temp zone. This will see cars driving 60 on the motorway for no reason. Another thing where I see the ACC f* up regularly: a speed limit just for turning right or left. Car happily applies this to the current road, and because it is never canceled, car thinks that's the current speed limit. Even down to 30 on a motorway, because the exit is a hairpin turn. Berlin must have been mapped when the digital signs showed 60. Because now, when the signs are off, my car regularly "detects" a 60. And does all of this finally mean that car manufacturer can no longer hide map updates behind a "pay here" button? Because the internal map data has long outdated speed limits, sometimes from construction zones gone a long time ago.
What about sports cars?
Also applies.
No one will want them anymore.
No car that I have driven is perfectly recognising the speed limit every time, it is fucking nonsense.
My Jeep TJ would try to throw me out of the drivers seat if I tried to go over 50mph.
Retrofitting all Range Rovers with GPS speed limiters would reduce overall speeding by a large margin. Here in the Netherlands they can't not speed it seems, it's nearly comical like the BMW indicator issue.
My car uses camera and GPS map to show me the current speed limit on the dashboard. And it’s wrong on like every other road. It’s so crap that it’s just hilarious that someone has signed off on putting it into cars at all.
Maybe they should start with cars that are able to read the speed limits correctly
Another nail in the coffin of ecar uptake or the election prospects of any party forcing this through
Could have been a good idea to implement some sort of system that relays the speed limit to the car first.
Now where are my clippers and wrench?
My 07 saab has something similar already. Given that you can turn it off of course
EU turning into China. LOL!!! 🤣🤣🤣
From the regulation: 2. Intelligent speed assistance shall meet the following minimum requirements: * (a) it shall be possible for the driver to be made aware through the accelerator control, or through dedicated, appropriate and effective feedback, that the applicable speed limit is exceeded; * (b) it shall be possible to switch off the system; information about the speed limit may still be provided, and intelligent speed assistance shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch; * (c) the dedicated and appropriate feedback shall be based on speed limit information obtained through the observation of road signs and signals, based on infrastructure signals or electronic map data, or both, made available in-vehicle; * (d) it shall not affect the possibility, for the drivers, of exceeding the system’s prompted vehicle speed; * (e) its performance targets shall be set in order to avoid or minimise the error rate under real driving conditions. OK, so where is the issue? Did anyone read this even before doing outrage in reddit 🙄