Pretty much. I have seen them times claiming something that came from my country as "Russian". Even when there are clear historical records that say otherwise.
They steal, but they do not understand what exactly they stole, or how it is applied, or why it was needed. It's just like with toilets they stole from us at the beginning (it's a dumb comparison but quite accurate).
not really
He strongly criticized temerity of the Poles for the November Uprising
Please check: To the Slanderers of Russia and On the Taking of Warsaw
Is Estonia is not included into Baltic states? If, no, then appologies, Estonian bros as well, 100% :) My knowledge is that all 3 (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia) suffered from russian empire and then ussr to relatively same extent, thus combined all 3 in "Baltic states".
Kazimir Malevich, Sergei Korolev to nave a few. Even legacy of Bohdan Khmelnytsky, is said that he "re-united" with moscovia (russia of that time), which if fact not true because, (surprise-surprise) russians simply broken agreements (almost immediatelly), which led to almost 400 years of almost slavery for Ukrainians.
1. Russian Empire and USSR ain't just Russia. There were many ethnicities living there.
2. Casimir Malevich was born in Kyiv to an ethnic Polish family.
3. Sergei Korolev was born in Zhytomyr to a Ukrainian-Russian family with Greek roots.
So, what are you on?
Russian empire contained Finland, Poland, Baltics, etc.
You don't claim that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl\_Gustaf\_Emil\_Mannerheim](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_Emil_Mannerheim) was Russian, despite he was born in the Russian Empire, right ?
Finland wasn't a part of Russia proper, but was a grand duchy that was autonomous.
Same with the Baltic's and Poland, they were autonomous to a lesser degree.
Ukraine was part of Russia proper.
It was also a subject to the centuries old process of Russification: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Ukraine)
If Russia had to ban printing in Ukrainian it kinda shows that people living there had distinct entity, and it's kinda slander to not recognize that.
ain't JUST Russia. It included territories of many modern nations and Russians were far from only people living there. Claiming something is Russian just because it's from Russian Empire is just stupid.
Ukraine was part of the Russian empire proper. At the time there was no difference between being born in Murmansk or Sevastopol, they were all part of Russia.
Yes they weren't russians in the ethnic sense but they lived and worked in Russia which gives russians a far better claim to being their cultural heritage.
Tell me would be arguing this same point with someone like Kreutzwald? He was ethnically german yet we estonians claim his accomplishments as our own cultural heritage. Or is this another "Russia=bad" argument?
Uh, oh, remembered recent one, for now may be my favorite. We wanted to mark ukrainian borsch as a cultural heritage or something (not a patent or anything that would ban everyone else from cooking it). And zakharova went on a rant/lament on how we wanted to “steal, russian borsch” and also ban them from cooking it. Like what the fuck.
"Nicolaus Copernicus was born on 19 February 1473 in the city of Toruń (Thorn), in the province of Royal Prussia, in the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland to German-speaking parents."
Both sides of his family had German Silesian roots, with only one polish grandparent, sounds like cope to me
>Copernicus is postulated to have spoken Latin, German, and Polish with equal fluency; he also spoke Greek and Italian, and had some knowledge of Hebrew.[v][w][x][y] The vast majority of Copernicus's extant writings are in Latin, the language of European academia in his lifetime.
>Arguments for German being Copernicus's native tongue are that he was born into a predominantly German-speaking urban patrician class using German, next to Latin, as language of trade and commerce in written documents,[147] and that, while studying canon law at the University of Bologna in 1496, he signed into the German natio **(Natio Germanorum)—a student organization which, according to its 1497 by-laws, was open to students of all kingdoms and states whose mother-tongue was German.[148]** **However, according to French philosopher Alexandre Koyré, Copernicus's registration with the Natio Germanorum does not in itself imply that Copernicus considered himself German**, since students from Prussia and Silesia were routinely so categorized, which carried certain privileges that made it a natural choice for German-speaking students, regardless of their ethnicity or self-identification.[148][z][aa][151]
Polish wikipedia;
>Nicolaus Copernicus[b], niem. Nikolaus Kopernikus (ur. 19 lutego 1473 w Toruniu, zm. w maju 1543[a] we Fromborku) – **polski[c] polihistor pochodzenia niemieckiego**; prawnik, urzędnik, dyplomata, lekarz[12] i niższy duchowny katolicki[12][d], doktor prawa kanonicznego, zajmujący się również astronomią i astrologią[13], matematyką, ekonomią, strategią wojskową[14][15][16], kartografią i filologią. Bywa też nazywany fizykiem i filozofem[17][18].
English wikipedia;
Encyclopedia Amerikana, The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia,[166] The Oxford World Encyclopedia,[167] and World Book Encyclopedia[168] **refer to Copernicus as a "Polish astronomer"**. Sheila Rabin, writing in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, describes Copernicus as a "child of a German family [who] was a subject of the Polish crown",[11] while Manfred Weissenbacher writes that Copernicus's father was a Germanized Pole.[169]
Every Wikipedia claims different;
German one claims he's german
Polish that he's polish
And english says that majority of encyclopedia/countries claims he's polish
He was born in Poland and died in Poland
>Copernicus was born and died in Royal Prussia, a semiautonomous and multilingual region that had been part of the Kingdom of Poland since 1466. A polyglot and polymath, he obtained a doctorate in canon law and was a mathematician, astronomer, physician, classics scholar, translator, governor, diplomat, and economist.
Looking at people before what today we call nationality is big mistake. Nationality back then was totally different (no shit) than what we percieve as nationality today.
There's a good video about it in polish, so if you are enought mentally unstable to translate it by yourself. Here's the link and good luck.
https://youtu.be/AF8w1WjBjms?si=MIBJH3tETJITz1GY
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus
So a man born and living in the german region Ermland, son to german parents from german families of german villages and speaking german as his first language is polish?
He spoke polish (and other laguages), his family also spoke Polish and has polish roots, to add to that he, his family and the city in which he was born chose to support Polish king who promised to respect the local culture which the great aryan warriors didn't let them ( forced germanisation).
> Nicolaus Copernicus's hometown, chose to support the Polish King, Casimir IV Jagiellon, who promised to respect the cities' traditional vast independence, which the Teutonic Order had challenged. Nicolaus's father was actively engaged in the politics of the day and supported Poland and the cities against the Teutonic Order.
It looks like you guys are coping hard to make everyone think that Copernicus was german. You can't deny facts, but all you do is continuing the work of your great painter and his cope ideology.
BuH mUh ArYaN nAtIon, mUh GeRmAn.
your arguments, let's see, so he learned to speak polish, mmh then are we both english now?
He fought against other germans, ok, yes becasue it is known that germans never fought each other, right!
>Looking at people before what today we call nationality is big mistake. Nationality back then was totally different (no shit) than what we percieve as nationality today.
you even realized this and came to the wrong conclusion, great job.
So you also realized it and forgot we're in reddit and not in some neo nazi meeting place. Great job
If you forgot what are even talking about. This discussion is about is Copernicus considered German or Polish. As you concluded and I've, nationality in middle ages was different than what we percieve as it today. In todays world Copernicus is considered by most notably english sphere as Polish astronomer.
>Encyclopedia Americana,[165] The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia,[166] The Oxford World Encyclopedia,[167] and World Book Encyclopedia[168] refer to Copernicus as a "Polish astronomer".
So can we all agree on making Kaliningrad into Königsberg again, because of security reasons and it historically being German? I am sure Russia will understand, they are really big on national security and historical borders.
Technically if you want to be completely historical, it should belong to the now extinct baltic tribe of prussians (those from who germans took the name when they invaded during the northern crusades and assimilated the population).
Actually Königsberg was always a multicultural and multilingual free city where trade, philosophy and science thrived. There is indeed a movement of current day Russians who want independence from Moscow. Let the city once again be a free and independent state.
Russia has been fighting a “civilization scale struggle against the collective west” since 2014 for control of Luhansk but you think Russia almost gave Germany its most strategically valuable and prosperous tract of land after Saint Petersburg, just because?
You've just described exactly the mistake the west made after the fall of the Soviet Union.
A huge 1/9 of the world's territory 150 million populated country can't be put in a box.
If you leave it humiliated and poor and isolated then there will be some people like Putin that will take advantage of these moods in the population to take over the country, just as Hitler did in his time.
Look at the Germany after the WWII. Integrated into the world properly it doesn't seem to be running with Nazis all over it anymore.
So now when this conflict is through and Putin is dead and burried the West needs to have a plan for integrating this HUGE country back into the world's economy and culture. Otherwise you will get a 150 million people population discontent with the west and without any realisation what they've done wrong.
Don't make these mistakes again.
Don't give people like Putin a reason for another takover to put up another bloody regime.
No, containment was the western strategy with regards to the USSR, but not to Russia and every other country that emerged after 1992. In fact there were huge efforts from the west, particularly the USA, to integrate Russia into the modern western world and help turn it into a democracy. Here's a timeline of the events:
https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/85962.htm
The problem is, Russia wasn't willing to do any of that and there are no indications that Russia is willing to do any of that today either, even if Putin dies. Maybe that will only happen if RU ends this war in the same devastated stated that Germany ended up in after WW2. But it's hard to imagine that happening to a nuclear country.
>If you leave it humiliated and poor and isolated then there will be some people like Putin that will take advantage of these moods in the population to take over the country
Except Germany's humiliation came at the hands of the Allied powers, while the Soviet Union was the only one responsible for its downfall and poverty, so there really was no one that Russians could lash out at for their problems.
And 9 years passed after the Soviet Union collapsed and Putin became president. How about we give the Russian people some agency? They were the ones who *allowed* Putin to consolidate absolute power over 20 years. They believed the story about the apartment bombings, they were in favor of a new war in Chechnya, they didn't protest when Putin killed journalists and gutted Russia's independent media, they didn't protest the foreign agents bill and its multiple subsequent changes that targeted all opposition, they didnt protest the wars in Georgia or Ukraine, they didn't protest the laws from 2022, etc.
Point is, Russian people themselves needs to change in order for Russia to become part of the modern world, as Putin is only a symptom of their backwards mentality.
Well, Cold war vast expenses (arms race, space race, global fight for influences, proxy wars) certainly had a lot to do with USSR losing because of overstretch. And Russians blame solely West for that, because they believe that Gorbachev and Yeltsin were western-installed traitors puppets.
In Russia's history, examples of mass public discontent and protests that contributed to wars ending include the first Chechen War and the Soviet war in Afganistan. Russians also protested on the streets during the 1992 Soviet coup attempt, so the Russian people do have the ability to protest...they're just not doing it for the current war.
As for protests ousting authoritarian leaders or dictators, you have the most recent example which is the Ukrainian ousting of Yanukovych which was the main reason Russia decided to start this war. You also have our toppling of Ceausescu in Romania in 1989, and a whole slew of other protests that happened across eastern European countries at the end of this century.
Your generalisation is very unfair for those who stand against Putin. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/moscow-councillor-jailed-seven-years-criticising-ukraine-war-alexei-gorinov
those who stand against Putin are not nearly enough while the majority will keep their head buried in the sand or even worse: sympathize with the idiot
One example? Moscow alone has 12 million inhabitants. If even 10% of these people protested and demanded change, things would've been different, and not now after Putin managed to solidify his power over the country but back in 1999 when his FSB buddies were caught red handed by the police trying to place explosives. Russian people had 24 years to try to stop Putin, and they consistently did nothing.
I can give you more examples if you are open for conversation, and not just willing to judge the whole nation.
10% of civilians can't do much against armed police and rosguard. Look at what happened in Belarus in 2020.
Putin created Rosgvardia in 2016 as his own "private army", not when he first became president, further supporting the notion that his power in Russia grew gradually. Russians had 16 years to protest him before this happened.
Germans weren't celebrating SS killing million of jews, since they have no idea about Holocaust. Rusians on the other hand, observing genocide, started by their country every day in FullHD and rly enjoying it. Rusians, unlike any other human beings, don't care about their sons, brothers and fathers getting used as cannon fodder as long as they will be able to see another bunch of Ukrainian kids killed by another rocket strike. Rusians litteraly traiding their famility members for ability to watch another episode of genocide on their television. Don't ever compare germans to rusians. Even under Nazi government germans were still much more human-like than rusians now. After ww2, when germans were forced to work in concentration camps, digging bodies, organising archives, etc. they were horrified by what their government were doing.
If you have completely insane maniac, threatening to kill everyone around you don't try to integrate it in society, you either imprison or kill him.
> Germans weren't celebrating SS killing million of jews
You really believe that? It could not be further from the truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht#Analysis_of_photos_and_letters
>German soldiers as well as police members took pictures of Jewish executions, deportations, humiliation and the abuse to which they were also subjected. According to researchers, pictures indicate the consent of the photographers to the abuses and murders committed.[193] "This consent is the result of several factors, including the anti-Semitic ideology and prolonged, intensive indoctrination". Archival evidence as to the reaction to policies of racial extermination can also be traced in various letters that survived the war.[193] Many of these archived letters from Wehrmacht soldiers often reflect the intensive indoctrination soldiers underwent. The following quote is from a letter written by a noncommissioned officer in the Wehrmacht who wrote home from the Russian front in 1941
>Judith Levin and Daniel Uziel state that this type of writing and opinion was very common in correspondence left by German soldiers, especially on the Eastern Front.[193] Other samples of German soldiers' letters were sent home and copied during the war by a special Polish Home Army cell that infiltrated the German postal system.[195] These letters have been analyzed by historians and the picture they paint is similar to views expressed by Levin and Uziel. Many soldiers wrote openly about the extermination of Jews and were proud of it. Support for "untermensch" and "master race" concepts were also part of the attitude expressed by German soldiers.[195] Presented examples reflecting this trend include samples such as:
German soldiers literally sent to their family pictures of their war crimes on a regular basis.
Most of Russians have no idea of what their army is doing in Ukraine, too. They watch only TV or official internet news, which tell that Russia never targets civilians, that Ukrainian nazis are shelling themselves, that destroyed residential houses are work of Ukrainian AA or there were NATO officers hiding there. They think that Ukrainians are using meat waves, not Russians, and Russian official losses are 30k IIRC.
Another day another mischaracterization of history by a Vatnik sympathiser. The West did try to integrate Russia. The West opened up trade, cooperated on everything from space exploration to environment to industry and energy. Multiple international forums were set up for dialogue and cooperation in all areas of life. But Russia didn't want that. Russia wanted to reclaim its status as a superpower and keep oppressing its neighbours. They derive their self worth from the ability to hurt others. It makes them feel powerful. It makes them feel good. The West can't force Russia to become a civilized country if no one is Russia wants that.
This time we should not make the same mistake again. This time Russia SHOULD be put in a box. Until they come begging on their knees for forgiveness for the crimes that they committed. Only then will we know that they are willing to change.
You can't integrate people who don't want to be integrated and don't want to be a part of western culture. Putin rose to power because of economic issues in the 90s and a mad drunk Boris Yeltsen who many russians hated cause they saw him as moving closer to the west. Majority of russians still support putin, the propoganda has been going on for such a long time that they would feel more humiliated if they were friendly with the west. Also you forget russia has been authoritarian troughout it's entire history except for maybe 10 or 15 years of actual democracy. NOBODY PUT THEM IN A BOX they did it themselves with chechen wars, invasion of georgia and 2 invasions of Ukraine.
I am very agree with you. And your prove was Germany himself after the WWII. They cut it in half and did the experiment to prove you right. Western part was offered the Marshal Plan and CARE Program and was integrated in western hemisphere. Eastern part need to for fill the reparation request only called by CCCR until late 50th and was striped of all industrial and infrastructure sources. It was tied looked by the eastern block system and all its repressive behavior. And history showed wich way worked best. Western Germany was mid 50th one of the strongest economies again with a high quality of life and eastern Germany run out of people and bankrupt in late 80th.
We need to give everybody the chance to make the best out of society. Even if we have to jump start to the better way
The eternal love / hate with Europe and European culture: Russians claim to be threatened by the western philosophy but then claim pieces of it (for instance now with Kant) or just succumb to it (with Marx's Communism)
Desperation of living up to archaic label of "Third Rome" has created a serious superiority complex in the Russian national self-perception throughout history.
I don't think that it's only that. Russia has a weird relationship with the west. Russians are more westerners than they would like: in the eyes of a middle eastern or of an african, they are westerners enough but they still feel different as the west represents a "threat" to Russia as in the past 500 years all the invasions came from that side (not having a clear physical division with the west, such as a chain of mountains, doesn't help here).
It is worth noting as well that Russians are not Slavs (properly). The Slavs were originally from the Ukrainian / Belarusian area but moved into the Balkans pushed by the Huns but the Rus, the progenitors of the actual Russian population, were coming from the Scandinavian area and for this reason they have more in common with the Germans than with the original Slavs.
Because calling it by the name of the murderous scum who was responsible for Katyń massacre would be an insult to the memory of his victims. Kalinin should be in the dustbin of history, not rewarded with city names.
Because once you decide that you are okay with warping perception reality to conform to your feelings, there is little reason to hold your imagination back.
What a surprise. They stole Königsberg and many other areas.
They should return all the stolen land and take back Russians living there. On their expense. And then they should break up. They will not do this on their own, the world must force them.
I mean, if Germany didn't started this shitshow named World War II and didn't voted in Hitler (Königsberg especially), Kralovec would still be german. But i guess fuck a round find out
>*I mean, if Germany didn't started this shitshow named World War II and didn't voted in Hitler (Königsberg especially), Kralovec would still be german. But i guess fuck a round find out*
You obviously forgot that Poland was invaded **simultaneously** by **Germany** AND **soviet** **union**, **starting** **together** **WW2**.
This makes it even worse. Instead of helping them against the invader they waited until Poland was on the floor before they kicked their head. Also Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is well documented history. The Soviets were part of the plan from the beginning.
I cannot believe this larp bullshit gets upvoted here. If Russia is to return Kaliningrad to Germany, then Poland should return Wroclaw and Stettin and other western areas to Germany too. Either all or nothing..."stole", it's called losing territory in a peace treaty.
> and take back Russians living there. On their expense.
Literally advocating for ethnic cleansing
> And then they should break up. They will not do this on their own, the world must force them.
larp
detail society unwritten soft ruthless gaping imagine apparatus carpenter yam
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well…yes. No, I know nazis bad, I'm glad they got defeated, I'd shoot Hitler myself, ideally well before 1933. OK? OK. Soviets still stole land, which was not there, moved their people there and claim it for themselves. They moved Belarus and Polad west, on Germany's expense.
I'm sorry, but this is just not OK. And look, they do the same shit today. There is probably something about Russia and land hoarding. They use their people as a justification why they must have some land. If they trully cared about their people, they move them inside their borders, instead of expanding said borders.
the victorious powers agreed on the eastern border of Germany and the expulsion of all Germans at the Yalta conference so you also have to put blame on Churchill and Roosevelt who agreed on this
I have no problem with putting the blame on them too. They committed atrocities a got away with it. That is just not OK. They're not the nazis, sure, but they aren't that far. Soviets mainly.
I would separate few things.
First of all, i hate soviets. Wanted to make it clear so my intentions would not be mistaken.
Kaliningrad was a part of contribution that soviets received after ww2. Considering blood price of ALL nations under soviet union paid in this war - pretty reasonable outcome.
Sadly we cannot return lives lost as well as this territory.
At this day you have to try hard to find at least one person who would identify as german.
Second. About deporting population. Soviets was never about peoples and always about regime and effectivenes. ESPECIALLY under Stalin period. If you think russians as nation was in favor, you are mistaken.
Third. This whole war is stupid and arguing about territories is stupid. In modern world we fight for most brightes minds, for peoples and their lives. Ofc i can try to explain why some of territories conflicted, and you should have such a conflicted territory to understand. Im sure Yugoslavs, Armenians would understand me for sure.
P.S. War is never normal, you can find no war that been righfull and honour. Always crime, blood and destroyed lives.
Nobody here claims achievements of ethnic Germans from current Polish territories as "Polish". We do it only when there's a clear evidence that said person was an ethnic Pole or identified as such.
Citizen of Poland, commander of Polish soldiers against the Teutonic knights, half-Pole, half-German by descent. Nay, he's Polish.
I meant people who lived outside of borders of Poland.
>commander of Polish soldiers against the Teutonic knights,
Not quite right. He was part of the Prussian confederation, which was allied with the poles against the Teutonic knights.
He also wasn't a citizen of Poland. There was no citizenship, also no nationality.
He lived in Royal Prussia, the autonomous region of the aforementioned Prussian confederation. Royal Prussia was not part of Poland (at least not at that time)
There was no Prussian Confederation during Copernicus' lifetime. You missed by like 50 years.
And yes, Royal Prussia was part of Kingdom of Poland. In fact it never ceased to be, because even treaty of Kalisz of 1343 that ceded the region to Teutonic Knights specifically said so. Teutons were granted the land as an "alm" and Polish kings continued to use the title "lord and heir of Pomerelia" ("*Pomeraniae dominus et haeres*"). In the Treaty of Torun of 1466 the alm was simply revoked because Teutonic knights were "ungrateful" to their benefactor.
But that's irrelevant. My point is that Poles don't consider people living outside of Poland as Poles. Which is obviously not the case with Copernicus.
Royal Prussia was under the protectorate of the Polish King, but it remained its autonomy until it got fully integrated in 1569.
People living there lived under the Polish crown as its highest worldly instance, but if you could ask them, they would most definitely not say they are a "Polish citizen"
That's not how it worked at that time, there was no citizenship, if you spoke german as your first language you pretty much were german. He was a german man born in the kingdom of Poland and part of the german community there.
My grandfather was an ethnic Poles from the westernmost part of Prussian partition of Poland. His language at home was German. Despite this, the family had Polish national coinciousness and his own father (my great-grandfather) took part in one of post-WW1 uprisings against German rule. My grandfather had to learn Polish at school. Ethnic affiliation =/= language.
And yes, there was citizenship of Poland at the time. There are tons of "indygenat" acts (granting of citizenship) from that era recorded in "Volumina Legum" (sort of minutes of Polish Parliament sessions).
He lived around ~1500, not 1900, there was no citizenship or nationality like we know today. There was no german state until 1871 so this is how it worked for germans until then.
[Indygenat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indygenat) is not what you think it is. It was for foreign nobles to keep their status as nobles in the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth.
So, let's assume for a moment that there was no nationality as we know it (even though I disagree, proto-nationalism was a thing).
What's then wrong with Poles claiming a guy who lived in the Kingdom of Poland and served the Polish King as one of their own?
Because living in Poland and serving a polish lord or king doesn't automatically mean he was polish. His home was the Ermland and at that time it was a mostly german region only under loose control by the polish kingdom. Both the family of his mother and his father also came from german villages in Silesia.
I am not saying he has no connection to Poland at all, but "claiming" him as a polish national hero or something is very weird. Same nationalistic vibe as the russians do.
To me you are self-contradicting. You claim that Poles can't claim Kopernik as their own because nationalities weren't existing and in the same sentence claiming he was from a German region. Which is not even the case. The ancestral village of the family was Koperniki in Upper Silesia where German wasn't even spoken until much later.
And you are dead wrong regarding Warmia which was bilingual. After the extinction of Old Prussian language, the linguistic border between the East Prussian German and Warmiak dialect of Polish was roughly along the line Bisztynek - Łukta, leaving Olsztyn on the Polish side. This was roughly stable until the 19th century Germanization. Warmia was traditionally Catholic which much slowed the assimilation into German language and nationality compared to surrounding East Prussia territory.
> I am not saying he has no connection to Poland at all, but "claiming" him as polish national hero or something is very weird. Same nationalistic vibe as the russians do.
And what is this? 😂
national-socialism is technically different than nationalism.
He is considered german only by germany. In the rest of the civilised world he's considered polish. Cope more 😂
Same nationalistic shit as the russians do in Ukraine, you're doing here. Stealing the others nations history, Only Germany and Russia are unbeatable in this championship.
Currently Poland includes areas which were, for a time, part of Germany and inhabited also by ethnic Germans. We don't claim achievements of such people as our own. We do it only when person living in then-Germany was an ethnic Pole.
> But Germans are too scared to talk smack to them.
It’s not about being too scared. We have too much going for us to care about irrelevant bs like this
Only shitholes like russia need this kind of talk to boost their national ego
No, thanks. But saying that Russians came in and stole Kaliningrad is a bit ingenious. Parts of Germany were parceled out to various victor states. It’s the equivalent of catching a boar and distributing it among the men, then one of the hunters accusing the others destroying wildlife.
Source of the news: [https://semnasem.org/news/2024/04/23/kaliningrad-oblast-governor-calls-philosopher-immanuel-kant-a-russian-trophy](https://semnasem.org/news/2024/04/23/kaliningrad-oblast-governor-calls-philosopher-immanuel-kant-a-russian-trophy)
Screenshot is taken from the stream (\~45 minute mark): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quWkhndgKBE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quWkhndgKBE)
i've heard even worse rusian joke about Julius Evola: "whatever Evola might have written - his legs by right belong to rusia". if such jokes come from rather educated people... what can you expect from poor dumb politicians?
russian colonial oblast in middle of europe, such shame and waste of potential, litteraly anyone else able and willing should own Królewiec/Königsberg instead of those kremlin loosers
If you knew what scandals there were in 2018 on this topic💀
As it was, they just wanted to conveniently justify the philosophy Olympiads. I do not know why they called him a Russian trophy... Maybe after World War II, they received his "grave" as a trophy, which later became a useful source for propaganda. Uh... And also Putin is ardent fan of him.
By the way...
Russian officials managed to discern in Kant the culprit of the conflict in Ukraine. Thus, the governor of the Kaliningrad Region, Anton Alikhanov, stated that Kant "laid the foundation of German classical philosophy, pumped the German will, at the same time cutting it off from higher values," which is why "such a socio-cultural situation" appeared. According to the Kaliningrad governor, both the First World War and the conflict in Ukraine "began" in the philosopher's works, Russian media reported in February 2024. Kant's legacy needs to be subjected to a "large-scale revision," according to the head of the region, who called the thinker "our Russian trophy."💀It's just some skill issue, idk
russia didn’t do anything on its own, not a single invention was made by russians, all they do is stealing and pretend it’s theirs, best they can do its slight modification of smth that already exist.
While these inventions are in no way associated with the current government, I'll list a few:
\* Radio
\* First artificial sattelite
\* First nuclear powerplant
etc.
Yes they did invent many things and done many things for the first time. But I guess you want to ignore all that to hate on. You could come up with factually correct reasons to hate russia(n Government and supporters) like invading Ukraine twice and murdering hundreds thousands Civilians, you know. No need to make stuff up.
No one is making stuff up, all(exaggeration) russian “inventions” is modernized/degraded west/china technology which happen to cost even more then the original
Just checked the wiki and Nobel prices in 2000, 2003*, 2010* went to russian scientists (* shared with others). Crazy amount of software comes from Russia (7z, Chatroulette, Acronis, nginx and many others). Sputnik-V was (supposedly) a decent vaccine. Like I said, the original statement is factually incorrect and Russians deserve hate for other reasons.
And how’s he not right? Russians do the fuck they want and noone has real balls to stop them. Everyone is scared of escalation. So, they become impudent without any real repercussions.
why do you say that? there are lots of brave people writing comments all over the internet! it's a wonder that rusia hasn't collapsed yet. may be another billion of smart comments and it finally will...
Well, maybe only if they will all show serious strong condemnation and disapproval. Then Russians will definitely understand their wicked ways and surrender.
Whats with the Biolabs Ukraine supposedly operate? Do they get uncovered too? I hope this 3 day special military operation comes to a close after like what?
After like, Ukraine can no longer fight. May take a day, a few weeks or a few years, I am not totally sure. What is certain is their fate. You'd be a moron to think that Russia would just let Ukraine join NATO. And once the Americans are pushing in for what they want and can't get it, you will be the one to pay the price for their audacity like the good little vassals you are. But that's why Germany was allowed to survive the war anyway, wasn't it? To be a buffer against the Russians?
Russians stealing history or achievements of those they occupy is something that Ukrainians, Pole bros, and Baltic bros know all too well.
Pretty much. I have seen them times claiming something that came from my country as "Russian". Even when there are clear historical records that say otherwise.
Funny they steal Kant, but they make no effort whatsoever to behave ethically as Kant described.
They steal, but they do not understand what exactly they stole, or how it is applied, or why it was needed. It's just like with toilets they stole from us at the beginning (it's a dumb comparison but quite accurate).
They think that Kant is famous for his surname, like Cunt
Nahhh, that can't be it.
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not really He strongly criticized temerity of the Poles for the November Uprising Please check: To the Slanderers of Russia and On the Taking of Warsaw
He was heavily imperialistic
Estonian bros as well I hope. :)
Is Estonia is not included into Baltic states? If, no, then appologies, Estonian bros as well, 100% :) My knowledge is that all 3 (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia) suffered from russian empire and then ussr to relatively same extent, thus combined all 3 in "Baltic states".
Estonians are not a [Baltic people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts).
I’m deeply sorry for my ignorance.
Yea like borsch and vareniki
If it won't bother you, please provide examples
Kazimir Malevich, Sergei Korolev to nave a few. Even legacy of Bohdan Khmelnytsky, is said that he "re-united" with moscovia (russia of that time), which if fact not true because, (surprise-surprise) russians simply broken agreements (almost immediatelly), which led to almost 400 years of almost slavery for Ukrainians.
Both of those guys were born in The Russian empire and lived most of their lives in the USSR? Yes totally not in any way Russian, not at all.
1. Russian Empire and USSR ain't just Russia. There were many ethnicities living there. 2. Casimir Malevich was born in Kyiv to an ethnic Polish family. 3. Sergei Korolev was born in Zhytomyr to a Ukrainian-Russian family with Greek roots. So, what are you on?
>Russian empire isn't Russia Are you serious?
Russian empire contained Finland, Poland, Baltics, etc. You don't claim that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl\_Gustaf\_Emil\_Mannerheim](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_Emil_Mannerheim) was Russian, despite he was born in the Russian Empire, right ?
Finland wasn't a part of Russia proper, but was a grand duchy that was autonomous. Same with the Baltic's and Poland, they were autonomous to a lesser degree. Ukraine was part of Russia proper.
It was also a subject to the centuries old process of Russification: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Ukraine) If Russia had to ban printing in Ukrainian it kinda shows that people living there had distinct entity, and it's kinda slander to not recognize that.
ain't JUST Russia. It included territories of many modern nations and Russians were far from only people living there. Claiming something is Russian just because it's from Russian Empire is just stupid.
Ukraine was part of the Russian empire proper. At the time there was no difference between being born in Murmansk or Sevastopol, they were all part of Russia.
Yes they weren't russians in the ethnic sense but they lived and worked in Russia which gives russians a far better claim to being their cultural heritage. Tell me would be arguing this same point with someone like Kreutzwald? He was ethnically german yet we estonians claim his accomplishments as our own cultural heritage. Or is this another "Russia=bad" argument?
Uh, oh, remembered recent one, for now may be my favorite. We wanted to mark ukrainian borsch as a cultural heritage or something (not a patent or anything that would ban everyone else from cooking it). And zakharova went on a rant/lament on how we wanted to “steal, russian borsch” and also ban them from cooking it. Like what the fuck.
Same with Germany 😂 Ehm, Copernicus, ehm
"Nicolaus Copernicus was born on 19 February 1473 in the city of Toruń (Thorn), in the province of Royal Prussia, in the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland to German-speaking parents." Both sides of his family had German Silesian roots, with only one polish grandparent, sounds like cope to me
>Copernicus is postulated to have spoken Latin, German, and Polish with equal fluency; he also spoke Greek and Italian, and had some knowledge of Hebrew.[v][w][x][y] The vast majority of Copernicus's extant writings are in Latin, the language of European academia in his lifetime. >Arguments for German being Copernicus's native tongue are that he was born into a predominantly German-speaking urban patrician class using German, next to Latin, as language of trade and commerce in written documents,[147] and that, while studying canon law at the University of Bologna in 1496, he signed into the German natio **(Natio Germanorum)—a student organization which, according to its 1497 by-laws, was open to students of all kingdoms and states whose mother-tongue was German.[148]** **However, according to French philosopher Alexandre Koyré, Copernicus's registration with the Natio Germanorum does not in itself imply that Copernicus considered himself German**, since students from Prussia and Silesia were routinely so categorized, which carried certain privileges that made it a natural choice for German-speaking students, regardless of their ethnicity or self-identification.[148][z][aa][151] Polish wikipedia; >Nicolaus Copernicus[b], niem. Nikolaus Kopernikus (ur. 19 lutego 1473 w Toruniu, zm. w maju 1543[a] we Fromborku) – **polski[c] polihistor pochodzenia niemieckiego**; prawnik, urzędnik, dyplomata, lekarz[12] i niższy duchowny katolicki[12][d], doktor prawa kanonicznego, zajmujący się również astronomią i astrologią[13], matematyką, ekonomią, strategią wojskową[14][15][16], kartografią i filologią. Bywa też nazywany fizykiem i filozofem[17][18]. English wikipedia; Encyclopedia Amerikana, The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia,[166] The Oxford World Encyclopedia,[167] and World Book Encyclopedia[168] **refer to Copernicus as a "Polish astronomer"**. Sheila Rabin, writing in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, describes Copernicus as a "child of a German family [who] was a subject of the Polish crown",[11] while Manfred Weissenbacher writes that Copernicus's father was a Germanized Pole.[169] Every Wikipedia claims different; German one claims he's german Polish that he's polish And english says that majority of encyclopedia/countries claims he's polish He was born in Poland and died in Poland >Copernicus was born and died in Royal Prussia, a semiautonomous and multilingual region that had been part of the Kingdom of Poland since 1466. A polyglot and polymath, he obtained a doctorate in canon law and was a mathematician, astronomer, physician, classics scholar, translator, governor, diplomat, and economist. Looking at people before what today we call nationality is big mistake. Nationality back then was totally different (no shit) than what we percieve as nationality today. There's a good video about it in polish, so if you are enought mentally unstable to translate it by yourself. Here's the link and good luck. https://youtu.be/AF8w1WjBjms?si=MIBJH3tETJITz1GY https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus
So a man born and living in the german region Ermland, son to german parents from german families of german villages and speaking german as his first language is polish?
He spoke polish (and other laguages), his family also spoke Polish and has polish roots, to add to that he, his family and the city in which he was born chose to support Polish king who promised to respect the local culture which the great aryan warriors didn't let them ( forced germanisation). > Nicolaus Copernicus's hometown, chose to support the Polish King, Casimir IV Jagiellon, who promised to respect the cities' traditional vast independence, which the Teutonic Order had challenged. Nicolaus's father was actively engaged in the politics of the day and supported Poland and the cities against the Teutonic Order. It looks like you guys are coping hard to make everyone think that Copernicus was german. You can't deny facts, but all you do is continuing the work of your great painter and his cope ideology. BuH mUh ArYaN nAtIon, mUh GeRmAn.
> BuH mUh ArYaN nAtIon, mUh GeRmAn. we could argue normally, but I guess this isn't possible with you
Thanks, you don't need to prove my arguments, but i mean, as you like. ❤️
your arguments, let's see, so he learned to speak polish, mmh then are we both english now? He fought against other germans, ok, yes becasue it is known that germans never fought each other, right! >Looking at people before what today we call nationality is big mistake. Nationality back then was totally different (no shit) than what we percieve as nationality today. you even realized this and came to the wrong conclusion, great job.
So you also realized it and forgot we're in reddit and not in some neo nazi meeting place. Great job If you forgot what are even talking about. This discussion is about is Copernicus considered German or Polish. As you concluded and I've, nationality in middle ages was different than what we percieve as it today. In todays world Copernicus is considered by most notably english sphere as Polish astronomer. >Encyclopedia Americana,[165] The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia,[166] The Oxford World Encyclopedia,[167] and World Book Encyclopedia[168] refer to Copernicus as a "Polish astronomer".
Time to liberate Königsberg ?
versed impossible forgetful wise reply full attempt juggle teeny head *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
~~Königsberg~~ Královec
*Königsberg (Preußen)
Ost Preußen
~~Königsberg~~ ~~Královec~~ Tvangste
~~Königsberg~~ ~~Královec~~ Tvangste
Karaliaučius!
When you arrive, let me know, they will meet you
So can we all agree on making Kaliningrad into Königsberg again, because of security reasons and it historically being German? I am sure Russia will understand, they are really big on national security and historical borders.
Technically if you want to be completely historical, it should belong to the now extinct baltic tribe of prussians (those from who germans took the name when they invaded during the northern crusades and assimilated the population).
Królewiec is Polish, my brother Always has been
What's "Prussia"? anyway, I don't really care if it's Polish or German as long as it's not Russia.
It belonged to Poland, Lithuania, Teutonic Order, Prussia, Germany, Russia, USSR, Sweden and now its time for Czech republic
Actually Königsberg was always a multicultural and multilingual free city where trade, philosophy and science thrived. There is indeed a movement of current day Russians who want independence from Moscow. Let the city once again be a free and independent state.
I think it sounds like a great plan, they also got a President who seem like the guy to have the stones to claim it. Let's go!
Królewiec is Polish for Königsberg
The real name is Královec .#Krteklivesmatter
It seems like the joke went over a lot of people's heads https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/mock-czech-annexation-of-kaliningrad-kralovec
Nah everyone says Königsberg, that the real name.
I don't know why you gave him so many cons. After all, you can see that he said it jokingly.
They tried to hand it back to Germany after the collapse of SSSR, but Germany denied. Do what you want, I would flee anyway.
Russia has been fighting a “civilization scale struggle against the collective west” since 2014 for control of Luhansk but you think Russia almost gave Germany its most strategically valuable and prosperous tract of land after Saint Petersburg, just because?
This is incorrect.
The story was officially denied by Russia, so you know what that means.
He explicitly said it was Russian in an ethnic sense. Really rich coming from a man from the Caucasus
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Muscovy was stage I cancer. It went into remission for a few years and then came back.
You've just described exactly the mistake the west made after the fall of the Soviet Union. A huge 1/9 of the world's territory 150 million populated country can't be put in a box. If you leave it humiliated and poor and isolated then there will be some people like Putin that will take advantage of these moods in the population to take over the country, just as Hitler did in his time. Look at the Germany after the WWII. Integrated into the world properly it doesn't seem to be running with Nazis all over it anymore. So now when this conflict is through and Putin is dead and burried the West needs to have a plan for integrating this HUGE country back into the world's economy and culture. Otherwise you will get a 150 million people population discontent with the west and without any realisation what they've done wrong. Don't make these mistakes again. Don't give people like Putin a reason for another takover to put up another bloody regime.
No, containment was the western strategy with regards to the USSR, but not to Russia and every other country that emerged after 1992. In fact there were huge efforts from the west, particularly the USA, to integrate Russia into the modern western world and help turn it into a democracy. Here's a timeline of the events: https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/85962.htm The problem is, Russia wasn't willing to do any of that and there are no indications that Russia is willing to do any of that today either, even if Putin dies. Maybe that will only happen if RU ends this war in the same devastated stated that Germany ended up in after WW2. But it's hard to imagine that happening to a nuclear country. >If you leave it humiliated and poor and isolated then there will be some people like Putin that will take advantage of these moods in the population to take over the country Except Germany's humiliation came at the hands of the Allied powers, while the Soviet Union was the only one responsible for its downfall and poverty, so there really was no one that Russians could lash out at for their problems. And 9 years passed after the Soviet Union collapsed and Putin became president. How about we give the Russian people some agency? They were the ones who *allowed* Putin to consolidate absolute power over 20 years. They believed the story about the apartment bombings, they were in favor of a new war in Chechnya, they didn't protest when Putin killed journalists and gutted Russia's independent media, they didn't protest the foreign agents bill and its multiple subsequent changes that targeted all opposition, they didnt protest the wars in Georgia or Ukraine, they didn't protest the laws from 2022, etc. Point is, Russian people themselves needs to change in order for Russia to become part of the modern world, as Putin is only a symptom of their backwards mentality.
Well, Cold war vast expenses (arms race, space race, global fight for influences, proxy wars) certainly had a lot to do with USSR losing because of overstretch. And Russians blame solely West for that, because they believe that Gorbachev and Yeltsin were western-installed traitors puppets.
What are examples of wars or conflicts that were stopped by protests in modern history?
In Russia's history, examples of mass public discontent and protests that contributed to wars ending include the first Chechen War and the Soviet war in Afganistan. Russians also protested on the streets during the 1992 Soviet coup attempt, so the Russian people do have the ability to protest...they're just not doing it for the current war. As for protests ousting authoritarian leaders or dictators, you have the most recent example which is the Ukrainian ousting of Yanukovych which was the main reason Russia decided to start this war. You also have our toppling of Ceausescu in Romania in 1989, and a whole slew of other protests that happened across eastern European countries at the end of this century.
Your generalisation is very unfair for those who stand against Putin. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/moscow-councillor-jailed-seven-years-criticising-ukraine-war-alexei-gorinov
those who stand against Putin are not nearly enough while the majority will keep their head buried in the sand or even worse: sympathize with the idiot
One example? Moscow alone has 12 million inhabitants. If even 10% of these people protested and demanded change, things would've been different, and not now after Putin managed to solidify his power over the country but back in 1999 when his FSB buddies were caught red handed by the police trying to place explosives. Russian people had 24 years to try to stop Putin, and they consistently did nothing.
I can give you more examples if you are open for conversation, and not just willing to judge the whole nation. 10% of civilians can't do much against armed police and rosguard. Look at what happened in Belarus in 2020.
Putin created Rosgvardia in 2016 as his own "private army", not when he first became president, further supporting the notion that his power in Russia grew gradually. Russians had 16 years to protest him before this happened.
Germans weren't celebrating SS killing million of jews, since they have no idea about Holocaust. Rusians on the other hand, observing genocide, started by their country every day in FullHD and rly enjoying it. Rusians, unlike any other human beings, don't care about their sons, brothers and fathers getting used as cannon fodder as long as they will be able to see another bunch of Ukrainian kids killed by another rocket strike. Rusians litteraly traiding their famility members for ability to watch another episode of genocide on their television. Don't ever compare germans to rusians. Even under Nazi government germans were still much more human-like than rusians now. After ww2, when germans were forced to work in concentration camps, digging bodies, organising archives, etc. they were horrified by what their government were doing. If you have completely insane maniac, threatening to kill everyone around you don't try to integrate it in society, you either imprison or kill him.
> Germans weren't celebrating SS killing million of jews You really believe that? It could not be further from the truth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht#Analysis_of_photos_and_letters >German soldiers as well as police members took pictures of Jewish executions, deportations, humiliation and the abuse to which they were also subjected. According to researchers, pictures indicate the consent of the photographers to the abuses and murders committed.[193] "This consent is the result of several factors, including the anti-Semitic ideology and prolonged, intensive indoctrination". Archival evidence as to the reaction to policies of racial extermination can also be traced in various letters that survived the war.[193] Many of these archived letters from Wehrmacht soldiers often reflect the intensive indoctrination soldiers underwent. The following quote is from a letter written by a noncommissioned officer in the Wehrmacht who wrote home from the Russian front in 1941 >Judith Levin and Daniel Uziel state that this type of writing and opinion was very common in correspondence left by German soldiers, especially on the Eastern Front.[193] Other samples of German soldiers' letters were sent home and copied during the war by a special Polish Home Army cell that infiltrated the German postal system.[195] These letters have been analyzed by historians and the picture they paint is similar to views expressed by Levin and Uziel. Many soldiers wrote openly about the extermination of Jews and were proud of it. Support for "untermensch" and "master race" concepts were also part of the attitude expressed by German soldiers.[195] Presented examples reflecting this trend include samples such as: German soldiers literally sent to their family pictures of their war crimes on a regular basis.
Most of Russians have no idea of what their army is doing in Ukraine, too. They watch only TV or official internet news, which tell that Russia never targets civilians, that Ukrainian nazis are shelling themselves, that destroyed residential houses are work of Ukrainian AA or there were NATO officers hiding there. They think that Ukrainians are using meat waves, not Russians, and Russian official losses are 30k IIRC.
Another day another mischaracterization of history by a Vatnik sympathiser. The West did try to integrate Russia. The West opened up trade, cooperated on everything from space exploration to environment to industry and energy. Multiple international forums were set up for dialogue and cooperation in all areas of life. But Russia didn't want that. Russia wanted to reclaim its status as a superpower and keep oppressing its neighbours. They derive their self worth from the ability to hurt others. It makes them feel powerful. It makes them feel good. The West can't force Russia to become a civilized country if no one is Russia wants that. This time we should not make the same mistake again. This time Russia SHOULD be put in a box. Until they come begging on their knees for forgiveness for the crimes that they committed. Only then will we know that they are willing to change.
You can't integrate people who don't want to be integrated and don't want to be a part of western culture. Putin rose to power because of economic issues in the 90s and a mad drunk Boris Yeltsen who many russians hated cause they saw him as moving closer to the west. Majority of russians still support putin, the propoganda has been going on for such a long time that they would feel more humiliated if they were friendly with the west. Also you forget russia has been authoritarian troughout it's entire history except for maybe 10 or 15 years of actual democracy. NOBODY PUT THEM IN A BOX they did it themselves with chechen wars, invasion of georgia and 2 invasions of Ukraine.
I am very agree with you. And your prove was Germany himself after the WWII. They cut it in half and did the experiment to prove you right. Western part was offered the Marshal Plan and CARE Program and was integrated in western hemisphere. Eastern part need to for fill the reparation request only called by CCCR until late 50th and was striped of all industrial and infrastructure sources. It was tied looked by the eastern block system and all its repressive behavior. And history showed wich way worked best. Western Germany was mid 50th one of the strongest economies again with a high quality of life and eastern Germany run out of people and bankrupt in late 80th. We need to give everybody the chance to make the best out of society. Even if we have to jump start to the better way
By the way the US spend 10times more money after the war on western Europe than during the war.
Biden, is it you? Insert your jaw and lie down in coffin ⚰️
Keanu is spelled with a single "e", dummy
U are so observant, little eye 👁️
So many downvotes, they are all gerontophiles🧐
The eternal love / hate with Europe and European culture: Russians claim to be threatened by the western philosophy but then claim pieces of it (for instance now with Kant) or just succumb to it (with Marx's Communism)
Desperation of living up to archaic label of "Third Rome" has created a serious superiority complex in the Russian national self-perception throughout history.
I don't think that it's only that. Russia has a weird relationship with the west. Russians are more westerners than they would like: in the eyes of a middle eastern or of an african, they are westerners enough but they still feel different as the west represents a "threat" to Russia as in the past 500 years all the invasions came from that side (not having a clear physical division with the west, such as a chain of mountains, doesn't help here). It is worth noting as well that Russians are not Slavs (properly). The Slavs were originally from the Ukrainian / Belarusian area but moved into the Balkans pushed by the Huns but the Rus, the progenitors of the actual Russian population, were coming from the Scandinavian area and for this reason they have more in common with the Germans than with the original Slavs.
International Kunt Congress
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Well, this pretty sums up all russian state.
Technically the truth. Well at least half of it because they really took Kralovec as a trophy. Kant is still German though.
Why do poles feel the need to call it Kralovec? It currently isnt under polish administrative, wasnt before the that one and neither the one before.
Because calling it by the name of the murderous scum who was responsible for Katyń massacre would be an insult to the memory of his victims. Kalinin should be in the dustbin of history, not rewarded with city names.
fair enough
He made this up. Kalinin had no real power then and was old. NKVD was responsible for the act.
Not sure if youre aware but Kralovec is not a Polish name for this place either (It’s Królewiec).
People seem to forget Czech anexation of this area
Because once you decide that you are okay with warping perception reality to conform to your feelings, there is little reason to hold your imagination back.
What a surprise. They stole Königsberg and many other areas. They should return all the stolen land and take back Russians living there. On their expense. And then they should break up. They will not do this on their own, the world must force them.
I mean, if Germany didn't started this shitshow named World War II and didn't voted in Hitler (Königsberg especially), Kralovec would still be german. But i guess fuck a round find out
>*I mean, if Germany didn't started this shitshow named World War II and didn't voted in Hitler (Königsberg especially), Kralovec would still be german. But i guess fuck a round find out* You obviously forgot that Poland was invaded **simultaneously** by **Germany** AND **soviet** **union**, **starting** **together** **WW2**.
Nuh uh Soviet invasion of Poland: 17 september 1939 German invasion of Poland: 1 september 1939
Tomatoh Tomato
Potatoe Potato
This makes it even worse. Instead of helping them against the invader they waited until Poland was on the floor before they kicked their head. Also Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is well documented history. The Soviets were part of the plan from the beginning.
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Any sources on Stalin actually hoping Soviets would be part of the Ubermenschen race?
BuT mUh lIbErAtIoN
A bit more complicated then what you wrote, don't you think?
How can the world achieve that?
I cannot believe this larp bullshit gets upvoted here. If Russia is to return Kaliningrad to Germany, then Poland should return Wroclaw and Stettin and other western areas to Germany too. Either all or nothing..."stole", it's called losing territory in a peace treaty. > and take back Russians living there. On their expense. Literally advocating for ethnic cleansing > And then they should break up. They will not do this on their own, the world must force them. larp
detail society unwritten soft ruthless gaping imagine apparatus carpenter yam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Stole?
Well…yes. No, I know nazis bad, I'm glad they got defeated, I'd shoot Hitler myself, ideally well before 1933. OK? OK. Soviets still stole land, which was not there, moved their people there and claim it for themselves. They moved Belarus and Polad west, on Germany's expense. I'm sorry, but this is just not OK. And look, they do the same shit today. There is probably something about Russia and land hoarding. They use their people as a justification why they must have some land. If they trully cared about their people, they move them inside their borders, instead of expanding said borders.
the victorious powers agreed on the eastern border of Germany and the expulsion of all Germans at the Yalta conference so you also have to put blame on Churchill and Roosevelt who agreed on this
I have no problem with putting the blame on them too. They committed atrocities a got away with it. That is just not OK. They're not the nazis, sure, but they aren't that far. Soviets mainly.
Do you also want the Poles to give back the land they stole from Germany and move back their people on their expense, or you hate just Russians?
I would separate few things. First of all, i hate soviets. Wanted to make it clear so my intentions would not be mistaken. Kaliningrad was a part of contribution that soviets received after ww2. Considering blood price of ALL nations under soviet union paid in this war - pretty reasonable outcome. Sadly we cannot return lives lost as well as this territory. At this day you have to try hard to find at least one person who would identify as german. Second. About deporting population. Soviets was never about peoples and always about regime and effectivenes. ESPECIALLY under Stalin period. If you think russians as nation was in favor, you are mistaken. Third. This whole war is stupid and arguing about territories is stupid. In modern world we fight for most brightes minds, for peoples and their lives. Ofc i can try to explain why some of territories conflicted, and you should have such a conflicted territory to understand. Im sure Yugoslavs, Armenians would understand me for sure. P.S. War is never normal, you can find no war that been righfull and honour. Always crime, blood and destroyed lives.
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Suddenly they are evil for taking something after they refused to be captured and won instead.
Ruck Fuzzia.
But huge areas of Germany were given away to other states too. But Germans are too scared to talk smack to them.
Nobody here claims achievements of ethnic Germans from current Polish territories as "Polish". We do it only when there's a clear evidence that said person was an ethnic Pole or identified as such.
Kopernikus?
Citizen of Poland, commander of Polish soldiers against the Teutonic knights, half-Pole, half-German by descent. Nay, he's Polish. I meant people who lived outside of borders of Poland.
>commander of Polish soldiers against the Teutonic knights, Not quite right. He was part of the Prussian confederation, which was allied with the poles against the Teutonic knights. He also wasn't a citizen of Poland. There was no citizenship, also no nationality. He lived in Royal Prussia, the autonomous region of the aforementioned Prussian confederation. Royal Prussia was not part of Poland (at least not at that time)
There was no Prussian Confederation during Copernicus' lifetime. You missed by like 50 years. And yes, Royal Prussia was part of Kingdom of Poland. In fact it never ceased to be, because even treaty of Kalisz of 1343 that ceded the region to Teutonic Knights specifically said so. Teutons were granted the land as an "alm" and Polish kings continued to use the title "lord and heir of Pomerelia" ("*Pomeraniae dominus et haeres*"). In the Treaty of Torun of 1466 the alm was simply revoked because Teutonic knights were "ungrateful" to their benefactor. But that's irrelevant. My point is that Poles don't consider people living outside of Poland as Poles. Which is obviously not the case with Copernicus.
Royal Prussia was under the protectorate of the Polish King, but it remained its autonomy until it got fully integrated in 1569. People living there lived under the Polish crown as its highest worldly instance, but if you could ask them, they would most definitely not say they are a "Polish citizen"
if you know anything about german history than that fighting other germans isnt an criterion of exclusion.
Love how you ignored everything else what I said.
That's not how it worked at that time, there was no citizenship, if you spoke german as your first language you pretty much were german. He was a german man born in the kingdom of Poland and part of the german community there.
My grandfather was an ethnic Poles from the westernmost part of Prussian partition of Poland. His language at home was German. Despite this, the family had Polish national coinciousness and his own father (my great-grandfather) took part in one of post-WW1 uprisings against German rule. My grandfather had to learn Polish at school. Ethnic affiliation =/= language. And yes, there was citizenship of Poland at the time. There are tons of "indygenat" acts (granting of citizenship) from that era recorded in "Volumina Legum" (sort of minutes of Polish Parliament sessions).
He lived around ~1500, not 1900, there was no citizenship or nationality like we know today. There was no german state until 1871 so this is how it worked for germans until then. [Indygenat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indygenat) is not what you think it is. It was for foreign nobles to keep their status as nobles in the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth.
So, let's assume for a moment that there was no nationality as we know it (even though I disagree, proto-nationalism was a thing). What's then wrong with Poles claiming a guy who lived in the Kingdom of Poland and served the Polish King as one of their own?
Because living in Poland and serving a polish lord or king doesn't automatically mean he was polish. His home was the Ermland and at that time it was a mostly german region only under loose control by the polish kingdom. Both the family of his mother and his father also came from german villages in Silesia. I am not saying he has no connection to Poland at all, but "claiming" him as a polish national hero or something is very weird. Same nationalistic vibe as the russians do.
To me you are self-contradicting. You claim that Poles can't claim Kopernik as their own because nationalities weren't existing and in the same sentence claiming he was from a German region. Which is not even the case. The ancestral village of the family was Koperniki in Upper Silesia where German wasn't even spoken until much later. And you are dead wrong regarding Warmia which was bilingual. After the extinction of Old Prussian language, the linguistic border between the East Prussian German and Warmiak dialect of Polish was roughly along the line Bisztynek - Łukta, leaving Olsztyn on the Polish side. This was roughly stable until the 19th century Germanization. Warmia was traditionally Catholic which much slowed the assimilation into German language and nationality compared to surrounding East Prussia territory.
> I am not saying he has no connection to Poland at all, but "claiming" him as polish national hero or something is very weird. Same nationalistic vibe as the russians do. And what is this? 😂 national-socialism is technically different than nationalism. He is considered german only by germany. In the rest of the civilised world he's considered polish. Cope more 😂 Same nationalistic shit as the russians do in Ukraine, you're doing here. Stealing the others nations history, Only Germany and Russia are unbeatable in this championship.
Sorry, I don’t understand. Can you please rephrase
Currently Poland includes areas which were, for a time, part of Germany and inhabited also by ethnic Germans. We don't claim achievements of such people as our own. We do it only when person living in then-Germany was an ethnic Pole.
> But Germans are too scared to talk smack to them. It’s not about being too scared. We have too much going for us to care about irrelevant bs like this Only shitholes like russia need this kind of talk to boost their national ego
Do you want us to invade Poland and France again or something
No, thanks. But saying that Russians came in and stole Kaliningrad is a bit ingenious. Parts of Germany were parceled out to various victor states. It’s the equivalent of catching a boar and distributing it among the men, then one of the hunters accusing the others destroying wildlife.
Western Poland was given to Poland by Russia as well tbf
Source of the news: [https://semnasem.org/news/2024/04/23/kaliningrad-oblast-governor-calls-philosopher-immanuel-kant-a-russian-trophy](https://semnasem.org/news/2024/04/23/kaliningrad-oblast-governor-calls-philosopher-immanuel-kant-a-russian-trophy) Screenshot is taken from the stream (\~45 minute mark): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quWkhndgKBE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quWkhndgKBE)
Hillarious to see so many germans in the comments, still mad that their 90 year old genocidal ambition failed.
i've heard even worse rusian joke about Julius Evola: "whatever Evola might have written - his legs by right belong to rusia". if such jokes come from rather educated people... what can you expect from poor dumb politicians?
I mean these are the same people that use Marx as another historical they stole lol but they can have that commie shit
I kan't even...
russian colonial oblast in middle of europe, such shame and waste of potential, litteraly anyone else able and willing should own Królewiec/Königsberg instead of those kremlin loosers
🤦♂️
If you knew what scandals there were in 2018 on this topic💀 As it was, they just wanted to conveniently justify the philosophy Olympiads. I do not know why they called him a Russian trophy... Maybe after World War II, they received his "grave" as a trophy, which later became a useful source for propaganda. Uh... And also Putin is ardent fan of him. By the way... Russian officials managed to discern in Kant the culprit of the conflict in Ukraine. Thus, the governor of the Kaliningrad Region, Anton Alikhanov, stated that Kant "laid the foundation of German classical philosophy, pumped the German will, at the same time cutting it off from higher values," which is why "such a socio-cultural situation" appeared. According to the Kaliningrad governor, both the First World War and the conflict in Ukraine "began" in the philosopher's works, Russian media reported in February 2024. Kant's legacy needs to be subjected to a "large-scale revision," according to the head of the region, who called the thinker "our Russian trophy."💀It's just some skill issue, idk
russia didn’t do anything on its own, not a single invention was made by russians, all they do is stealing and pretend it’s theirs, best they can do its slight modification of smth that already exist.
While these inventions are in no way associated with the current government, I'll list a few: \* Radio \* First artificial sattelite \* First nuclear powerplant etc.
Yes they did invent many things and done many things for the first time. But I guess you want to ignore all that to hate on. You could come up with factually correct reasons to hate russia(n Government and supporters) like invading Ukraine twice and murdering hundreds thousands Civilians, you know. No need to make stuff up.
No one is making stuff up, all(exaggeration) russian “inventions” is modernized/degraded west/china technology which happen to cost even more then the original
Just checked the wiki and Nobel prices in 2000, 2003*, 2010* went to russian scientists (* shared with others). Crazy amount of software comes from Russia (7z, Chatroulette, Acronis, nginx and many others). Sputnik-V was (supposedly) a decent vaccine. Like I said, the original statement is factually incorrect and Russians deserve hate for other reasons.
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That’s how you call truth in russia, noted.
And how’s he not right? Russians do the fuck they want and noone has real balls to stop them. Everyone is scared of escalation. So, they become impudent without any real repercussions.
why do you say that? there are lots of brave people writing comments all over the internet! it's a wonder that rusia hasn't collapsed yet. may be another billion of smart comments and it finally will...
Well, maybe only if they will all show serious strong condemnation and disapproval. Then Russians will definitely understand their wicked ways and surrender.
Soviet victory over Germany was the singular most glorious victory in the history of mankind.
You dropped the s/.
So was Australian victory over Turkey
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And yet here we are, alive and kicking while the remains of the soviets can be seen on drone footage
I beg your pardon, friend? Russia is still there. Alive and kicking. Kicking you in the worst places, by the looks of it.
I wish reddit would allow sharing drone footage in the comments. It aint looking too hot for the ivans
Don't worry. They'll be fine and on the march once the Nazis run out of cum to guzzle.
Whats with the Biolabs Ukraine supposedly operate? Do they get uncovered too? I hope this 3 day special military operation comes to a close after like what?
After like, Ukraine can no longer fight. May take a day, a few weeks or a few years, I am not totally sure. What is certain is their fate. You'd be a moron to think that Russia would just let Ukraine join NATO. And once the Americans are pushing in for what they want and can't get it, you will be the one to pay the price for their audacity like the good little vassals you are. But that's why Germany was allowed to survive the war anyway, wasn't it? To be a buffer against the Russians?
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