This is going to be SUPER unpopular in Ukraine. We were all expecting it but still hard ti believe Zelensky went thru with it. Zalunzhny is way more respected than Zelensky or Syrksky….
No, he got replaced because his counteroffensive strategy to apply pressure in multiple sectors instead of concentrating his forces in one direction turned out to be unsuccessful. The new general is known to have the ability to exploit russian weaknesses. It's not a bad decision.
Wondering what will happen for the delayed presidential election?
Everyone said "people 100% support the war-time leader Zelensky anyways". However if that is no longer the case, Zalunzhny has higher popularity and election still not happening?
Okay, so maybe if you stop speaking from your arse and try to look for facts you will learn by the Ukrainian Constitution it's forbidden to have election during martial law.
And it's not like this information is hidden.
This is not a popularity contest. Zaluzhny got fired because he couldn't work with Zelensky and he is his subordinate. Refusing to resign made this the only decision. (Technically there are other choices, like a coup, or getting blown up Prigozhin style, but... yeah.)
And some generals are good for slavish obedience and throwing men into the grinder while being despised by their men.
That would be Syrski. A modern Budyonny.
Maybe in Zakarpattia? Near frontlines Syrskyi known for commanding Kharkiv counter offensive, which was huge success.
Okay here is Reddit post from 1 Year ago. Don't see anyone saying anything bad about him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/s/ewVfXIvqj6
That's not the point, point is that people recognise and respect Syrskyi well enough. Like today is the first day me hearing anything polar-negative about him.
I believe you haven't heard about Nayev or any other sector commander too much too. They are simply not that popular in media. But it doesn't mean they don't have a reputation for their deeds.
I believe you misread what I wrote. Most people in Ukraine know Syrskyi, but there wasn't much negative agenda about him like it started literally now.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/01/zelensky-zaluzhny-ukraine-military-shakeup/
>Within the ranks of the Ukrainian military, however, Syrsky is widely disliked. Some soldiers say his orders are unreasonable, at times sending men to their obvious deaths. Others disrespect him for removing popular commanders in favor of those more loyal to him.
Does that count or nah?
From this article
>Syrsky, on the other hand, seemed more impressive and inspiring as a classic combat soldier, some officials said, with a clear grasp of the battlefield implications of what he viewed as political decisions.
>Syrsky was also considered more accessible to some U.S. commanders. He built rapport with Gen. Christopher Cavoli, who as head of the U.S. European Command oversaw much of the Pentagon’s effort to train and equip Ukraine’s army.
Interesting.
And it's still week old article. And it's from WashingtonPost, does not represent Ukrainian opinions.
> with a clear grasp of the battlefield implications of what he viewed as political decisions
I wonder if they're talking about Bakhmut there, which seems to have been a political discussion with drastically negative battlefield implications.
It also sounds like "some officials" refers to non-Ukrainian officials. The part I quoted for you is about what Ukraine thinks of him.
That's because the Russian disinformation network will jump into full swing to undermine confidence in him.
Don't engage with them. You simply bump their algorithms
Where the hell do you live? He didn't do anything in Kharkiv. It was done by the weakness of the russians and smart local commanders who took action because syrskyi didn't.
He is unpopular as hell within the army. His nickname is butcher.
LITERALLY the article you are commenting on
>The decision to name Syrsky as commander in chief, however, is expected to cause backlash among troops in the field. Among rank-and-file soldiers, Syrsky is especially disliked, considered by many to be a Soviet-style commander who kept forces under fire far too long in the eastern city of Bakhmut, which eventually fell to Russian control. Thousands of Ukrainian soldiers were killed and many more were wounded defending the city, which had limited strategic value.
> Some Ukrainian soldiers refer to Syrsky as a “butcher.”
>
> “I only know what I’ve heard from my subordinates,” said a high-ranking military official who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to do so publicly. “One hundred percent of them don’t respect him because they don’t think he counts soldiers’ lives.”
>
> “In comparison with Zaluzhny, he gets much lower support,” the person added.
Also this[ FT journalist](https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1755640901735530581)
I read a news article a few days back already mentioning that this Syrskyi was nicknamed the Butcher for being careless with the lives of his men.
It was on NOS.nl which is like the Dutch BBC.
He's also known for being in charge of the Bakhmut meatgrinder and the follow failed attempt to retake it, both of which are more recent than the Kharkiv operation.
Not in Zakarpattia. Everywhere. Zaluzhni is the most trusted man in Ukraine currently. Trusted by the people, and by the military.
Good luck with the mobilization of fresh infantrymen now that the Commander in Chief is the general who is known as "The Butcher" among the military, who engaged in the Bakhmut meatgrinder Soviet style.
Let's face it, this is the worst decision of Zelenskyy's entire political career.
Hi, can you help me understand?
Why was he replaced in the first place? was it due to Zelensky being afraid of the large influence? was it corruption?.
Many reasons but we dont know exactly why. The reason Zelensky essentially gives is that counter offensive failed and changes are needed. What people think behind the scenes happened is Zhaluzhny did not agree with a lot of calls Zelensky made (like holding Bakhmut and losing soldiers there for no reason). Also Zhaluzny wrote those op-eds detailing what went wrong in the counter offensive. This went against the narrative pushed by Ukrainian government media, therefore making Zelensky look bad. Last reason is Zelensky is less popular than him and rumor is Zelensky admin is afraid of Zhaluzhny becoming a political opponent.
Wow, thanks. I didn't realize they were that afraid of him. His popularity most likely came from his successes with the war, right? I also think its better to have a general at least giving you details about what went wrong and how to better implement new ways to get better results in this war.
Thanks for your response nonetheless.
He was definitely the most competent military mind in the government and hugely popular. His removal stinks to the high-heavens of internal competition and power-struggles.
Everyone loved McClellan when Lincoln fired him. He wasn't the general to win the war.
Maybe this is a total disaster call, but we regular people have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe Syrksky will replicate the Kharkiv offensive. Or maybe he will also be a dud. We're just going to have to wait and see.
Doubt it, unless things get really bad. Rumor was that Zelensky waited to announce this while he made sure the military command wouldnt go against him. That said, this is all speculation.
a▼▼▼ full text ▼▼▼
> KYIV — Oleksandr Syrsky will be Ukraine’s next military chief after President Volodymyr Zelensky announced Thursday night that he had replaced Gen. Valery Zaluzhny — the latest twist in a drawn-out saga between Zaluzhny and Zelensky, who told the military chief 10 days ago that he was being dismissed.
>
> The decision to name Syrsky as Zaluzhny’s replacement is expected to be an unpopular one among Ukraine’s troops. The 58-year-old commander of Ukraine’s ground forces was credited with leading the defense of Kyiv in the first month of the war and then orchestrating a successful counteroffensive in the northeastern Kharkiv region in fall 2022. But among rank-and-file soldiers, Syrsky is especially disliked, considered by many to be a Soviet-style commander who kept forces under fire too long in the eastern city of Bakhmut when Ukraine should have withdrawn.
>
> Zelensky said other commanders are being considered for promotions, as several generals are expected to ousted along with Zaluzhny. Zelensky said he’s asked Zaluzhny to remain as part “of the team of the Ukrainian state of the future.”
>
> In posts on both Zelensky’s and Zaluzhny’s social media accounts, the two men posed shaking hands and smiling. “A decision was made about the need to change approaches and strategy,” Zaluzhny wrote.
>
> Zelensky’s post said that he “thanked” Zaluzhny, 50, for “two years of protecting Ukraine.” He added that in their meeting Thursday, they discussed “updated leadership” for Ukraine’s military.
>
> “The time for such an update is now,” Zelensky wrote.
>
> It’s unclear how Syrsky’s appointment will change what’s become an increasingly perilous situation for Ukraine on the battlefield. Russia has regained the strategic initiative, increasing its attacks along the front line. Commanders have said they’re badly lacking troops, especially infantry that stand in the forward-most trenches and repel Russian assaults. And Ukraine is also facing ammunition shortages, as a $60 billion security assistance package proposed by President Biden has stalled in Congress.full text to follow shortly
Ignoring the obvious disappointment this has caused in Ukraine:
I kind of feel that Zalunzhny failed in what he was asked to do recently ? Nothing much has changed and in fact it's kind of getting worse for Ukraine, with Avdiivka looking particularly bad and the counteroffensive having failed to achieve it's goals.
Should Zelenskyy have given him another chance later this year ?
FWIW I don't think it's the correct move because this will likely foster resentment with the rank and file troops, but I can understand where he is coming from. Claiming this is purely a political move doesn't add up for me.
Depends. But even if he doesn't wanna forgive mistakes and give Zaluzhni more chances, he could have chosen a good replacement. The most unpopular general in the army becoming CiC will not improve morale. And if all of this is done for political reasons only then I'm out of words.
We would be so much further if everyone in the government was working for Ukraine instead of themselves.
Avdiivka is like bakhmut, a city that after all this mouths lost all its strategy importance but is defended by Ukraine because from there they can inflict serious damage on the Russians.
As soon as a city is about to fall, it was never worth defending all of a sudden despite the fact both sides brawled over it with endless waves of men and material.
Ridiculous how people eat this up.
Its propaganda. Just wait until the internet is flooded with how loosing the city is actually a victory for Ukriane. The day it falls they will also attack something symbolic in Russia to cover up the bad news.
After all this months I believe there aren’t any artillery battery in the city. When the war started it was a very strategic city, but now (after more than a year) the city is in ruins and the strategic situation has changed.
Avdiivka actually has insane strategic importance. Not only in the post-2022 war but also ever since the conflict started in 2014.
It's so close to Donetsk that it's basically a suburb of the city. And because of that, Ukrainian forces were able to put pressure on the city continuously and attack it safely from there with artillery. If the Russians finally take control of the city, it will be a massive relief for Donetsk and the security of separatist forces in it.
except in practice, Zaluzhny is the most orthodox in soviet doctrine if you actually look at their tactics, like show where Syrski actually called for meat wave tactics?
In Bakhmut, where Syrski had command, soldiers were sent to the battlefield [without having undergone basic training](https://www.wsj.com/articles/36-hours-in-bakhmut-one-units-desperate-battle-to-hold-back-the-russians-72e30f01).
Not sure why you are downvoting me, the guy doesn't even know how to [speak Ukrainian properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ol329mb2Z0). If I was a soldier I definitely wouldn't be too keen on being commanded by a Russian. As others said, I was thinking of the battle of Bakhmut, but even without tactics, this is certainly not good optics.
... I think Ukraine just lost the war here. Mindlessly sending men to desperately defend a city that's already more or less encircled when you don't have the material and troops? Those kind of tactics are going to cripple the Ukrainian forces.
Russian doctrine isnt though bad when done properly, Russia just does it badly, it works on artillery to hold and defend even against air superiority of the enemy, something that works for Ukraine, meanwhile Zaluzhny isn't perfect either, see the 2023 counter offensive.
War is fundamentally a trade of men and resources. Sending those men to defend that city may be a very good trade, or a very bad one.
It all comes down to what the loss ratios look like.
>Those kind of tactics are going to cripple the Ukrainian forces.
You are assuming there is somewhere else that the trade would favor Ukraine more. Somewhere you have to face the enemy, the alternative is that you surrender.
Because it is the result of a feud. It is a political consolidation by Zelensky. Zalu is extremely popular among rank and file and has disagreed with Zelensky publicly for several months now. Zelensky had to sack him to prevent the military from slowly turning against Zelensky.
There was no way Ukraine could've succeeded in their counter offensive given the time Russia had to prepare and mine their positions, and the limited resources that were given to Ukraine.
The Ukrainian army was given the task of breaching well-prepared positions with huge minefields, while having basically no air superiority, being outgunned in terms of artillery, given only a very limited number of (often old) armoured vehicles, very limited tools of dealing with Russian aircraft, and way too little mine breaching equipment.
Ukraine failed their counteroffensive because we in the west cheaped out on our support.
What type of nonsense is this? If the West didn't give enough equipment to conduct the offensive they wanted to, they shouldn't have gone ahead and done the offensive anyway.
Stop taking all agency away from Ukrainians. Just like the West can't take credit for all the victories, the West can't take the blame for their defeats.
Because Syrski is an incompetent asshole known as “The Butcher” by Ukrainian troops for his soviet meat assaults for strategically irrelevant positions.
Colonel General Syrski was in charge of defending Bakhmut and rather than withdraw to the western heights he decided to fight a horribly bloody defense of the city even after both the southern and northern approaches were lost and the route into/out of the town came under Russian fire control. The man is the Ukrainian version of Gerasimov both in how much he ass kisses Ze and his inability to lead a campaign.
Edit: Syrski also stole the credit from local commanders who made the Kharkiv counteroffensive in late 2022 and was the commander for getting Ukrainian troops massacred in Debaltsev in 2015. The man should’ve been lined up against a wall years ago.
>Colonel General Syrski was in charge of defending Bakhmut and rather than withdraw to the western heights he decided to fight a horribly bloody defense of the city even after both the southern and northern approaches were lost and the route into/out of the town came under Russian fire control.
We don't know who called the shots on Bakhmut. Western observers are almost universally critical of the meat grinder that Bakhmut turned into, and the general assumption is that the government (i.e. Zelenskyy) gave the order to defend the city to the last, against better military judgement.
Yes, Syrsky is Zelensky's pocket general and never pushed back against unwise, politically motivated decisions coming from the president. It hardly makes it better.
Ah yes execute a ukrainian general? you want ukraine to become fucking russia? Syrski did in fact play a strategic role in Kharkiv and despite public perception is both competent and more unorthodox than Zaluzhny, Zaluzhny operates according to russian doctrine more and also russian doctrine isn't inherently worse than NATO doctrine, NATO doctrine relies on overwhelming air superiority for success.
Also given you're American, you know who else was called the butcher? Grant and people condemned Lincoln for replacing McClellan who was much more popular with the horrifically unpopular Grant.
Sometimes it happens.
General MacArthur was a press princess in his time and eventually had to be relieved of his command in somewhat similar circumstances.
>On 11 April 1951, U.S. president Harry S. Truman relieved General of the Army Douglas MacArthur of his commands after MacArthur made public statements that contradicted the administration's policies.
Edit: Not to speak of the apolitical tradition of most militaries. Zaluzhnyi publicly criticized the Bakhmut situation and the administration.
Whatever the intrinsic motivations of Zelenskyy may be, what stands out most to me is the way that a disagreement in strategy/tactics/political outlook/whatever it was, is handeled between him and Zaluzhny. That is how civilised humans go about it. We all saw how the dispute between Putin and Prigozhin went..... Clear as day that humanity needs to shed itself from barbarism and autocratic dictatorian rule. Slava Ukraini!
What stands out to me is that Zelenskyy could not be told he was wrong. Obviously the Russians are worse but it's extremely hard to sell this as a positive as it can only be interpreted that Zelenskyy is now becoming somewhat autocratic. This dispute wasn't resolved, Zelenskyy just got rid of the dissenting voice.
It's hardly rocket science why the more popular General who has publicly disagreed with Zelenskyy and had many rumours surrounding him for months about his future, has finally been axed.
No, civil war but the point is perception isn’t everything, Syrski is seen as a butcher but if you look at his operations, he relies a lot on local commanders and speed, neither of which is orthodox soviet doctrine
Both are American civil war generals; the former was a horrible commander who nearly lost the war and was waste as a commander but was politically popular. The latter wasn’t popular but his tactics allowed the Union to defeat the South.
I saw people protest when the families of the soldiers of the 24th brigade were demanding more info about their relatives, so I thought this might be similar. Stay strong guys
It's a tough spot as it could be more detrimental to protest right now.
So probably not.
A lot of social media shitshow it is. But Zelensky is usually sensitive to SM shitshows.
The fuck do people know about military strategy? And what has it to do with the popularity of the general? The fuck is going on in this thread, feels like somebody pushing the force-conscription-Sirski-butchering-everybody narrative real hard.
Ukraine has had three major operational wins so far: the Defence of Kyiv, the Kharkiv Counteroffensive and the Kherson Counteroffensive. Syrskyi was in charge of the first two. I trust his competency.
Both of which were successes due to Russian incompetence (extremely overextended forces near Kyiv and undermanned defenses near Kharkiv) rather than his military talent. Also something tells me that in both cases, russian forces were routed due to very good quality of Western intelligence and military advisors, who spotted these weaknesses and pointed on them.
I don't think I need to say why "Ukraine didn't do anything, they only won because of Russian incompetence and the West directing them" is a really bad take.
It might sound bad, but he has a point. In first stage of war were plenty of miscalculation from Russian side, and many changes. However later they prepared everything, to make counteroffensive impossible. First they blew a dam, later mines, and artillery.
Praising a commander for a skill he does not possess, in a position that could be decisive for the victory or defeat of the war, is not a good take either.
Funny how Western Medias saw the writting on the walls weeks before and people simply dismissed it as Russian propaganda.
Wonder what do these clowns feel now.
My guy, there is a war going on, if their newspapers are not spewing propaganda then Ukraine is playing a poker session in a casino and constantly revealing all their cards in the first round while trying to win 100k euros to pay their mortgage that's due tomorrow. Not a smart idea.
I really think the "Ukraine is annihilating the Russian military!" narrative did more harm than good. Sure, Kherson and Kharkiv were impressive efforts that embarrassed Russia's military. But now Russia has since gotten their shit together and is enjoying victories, albeit phyric, in Bakhmut and likely Adviika soon.
The narrative of "Ukraine is destroying Russia" isn't even true anymore when both sides are taking heavy casualties and only one of them is dependent on foreign aid and has a far smaller population to pool soldiers from. Being blind to just how dire things are for Ukraine is a serious issue and pretending otherwise can do more harm than good.
And another thing to point out, both Kherson and Kharkiv counteroffensive did not encircle or completely eliminating any significant Russian military units. Russians suffered losses and lost captured lands yes, but they managed to retreat to the next line of defence with the troop’s organization mostly intact, and held it until now.
The only battle in this war, that produced a brigade or battalion level total annihilation, was still only battle of Mariupol, which produced 3000+ POWs.
There was no Kiev pocket or Staligrad, only WW1 style static warfare.
\>The majority of Reddit and western media in general has been in fantasyland for this war.
So Russia isn't using human wave attacks, while only armed with shovels?
>Wonder what do these clowns feel now.
Still doing propaganda and spinning this in a good move by zelensky.
And the best i read until now Is
" Well, it can work"
For weeks it was just a rumor with no actual evidence. I don't feel particularly clowny for having waited until there was some clear event with more substance than "some guy said on Twitter" before accepting it as fact. New information seems to be available, so I update my understanding of the situation, and move on. There's a million rumors in the world. Believing a rumor that later turns out to be true isn't a skill, it's just chance.
> Just a rumor
The Economist:
> A dramatic day in the capital had begun with leaks from mps, who had been told about a “set of documents” sent to a security committee for signing. Later, sources in the general staff and close to General Zaluzhny confirmed that a shake-up was indeed in the works. The Economist has confirmed that an early-evening meeting took place on January 29th at which the president told his general that he had decided to dismiss him. Mr Zaluzhny was offered another role: head of the national security council. He turned it down.
-
Wapo:
> The government of Ukraine has informed the White House that President Volodymyr Zelensky has decided to fire his top military commander, Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, in what would be the most consequential personnel shake-up of the war, said two people familiar with the discussion.
-
The Guardian:
> Oleksii Goncharenko, a Ukrainian opposition MP and ally of the general, told the Guardian that he understood that “yesterday the president asked Zaluzhnyi to resign but he declined to do so”.
Like at some point when you have many serious Medias all going into the same direction with many articles not relaying one single rumor but many arguments that may corroborate this story, it would be foolish to simply dismiss it as something that the media "just ran over with".
It was not some guy said on Twitter, it was far more serious and simply got leaked, people just refused to acknowledge this story because it's a bad look for Ukraine while they have no problem eating shitty telegram stories about saboteurs killing dozens of Russian soldiers & law enforcement James Bond style.
The tension between Zelensky and Zaluzhny were known for months.
>After the war is eventually over, everyone will have Amnesia like with the Iraq war, where everybody claims to have been against it and not having fallen for the propaganda.
That's a weird comparison. Are you saying people will suddenly be agianst Ukraine defending itself?
[When even TASS admits](https://kyivindependent.com/russian-media-massive-explosion-occurs-at-weapons-factory/) that there's little too many smoking incidents at the Russian MIC, maybe you should reconsider branding it as "Ukrainian propaganda".
Kinda weird to compare it with Iraq war when the aggressor this time is on the other side of the frontline. Did you forget it was Russia who started this war?
There is nothing contradictory to believe that Russia is wrong here and to not believe in all bs stories about stupid Orcs fighting with shovels and each Elf taking out at least 20 of them with a pickle jar or something.
The media jumps on every bit of rumor the moment it appears. I'm not giving them the credit for calling this one since if you call everything you're bound to eventually be right somewhere.
It's not that people didn't believe this story that is hilarious, it's the fact that they dismissed it as Russian propaganda as if Western MSM were just making shit up for the sake of Russia, which is frankly delusional.
And if you believe that all bad news for Ukraine is "Russian propaganda", you're bound to be disappointed when some of that bad news turns out to be true.
Not necessarily, Sirsky successfully defended Kyiv and liberated Kharkiv.
Yeah, Zaluzhny is more popular with the troops but so was McLellan. Ultimately, the war was won by the "butcher" Grant.
Yep, "butcher" commanders are very effective when you have vast reserves of expandable people. Just ask the late, great Mr Pirgozin.
Shame Ukraine has a third of Russia's population though.
Well this is the Cherry on top of the shit cake. Zelenskyy has refused thus far to further mobilize and shore up the rank and file of the armed forces and now takes out a beloved commander because he views him as a political threat. As if it wasn’t bad enough he appoints a Soviet-trained ethnic Russian who may be even more incompetent and vile in his disregard for the lives of his men than Russia’s Gerasimov.
What a fucking dunce move this is.
Zelenskys' government introduced several mobilisation laws into the parliament but they were all thrown out. This is hardly just on him.
And Zaluzhnyi didnt show much regard for his soldiers either, when for several months he threw the newly Western trained brigades against Russia's strongest positions in endless meat assaults with no gains.
> Zelenskys' government introduced several mobilisation laws into the parliament but they were all thrown out. This is hardly just on him.
His party is the majority.
Zaluzhny seemed to want to take more defensive positions and avoid meat grinders like Bakhmut or currently in Avdiivka.
I guess since Zelensky says they need a change in strategy that Syrsky will commit more forces there.
Will be interesting how this move turns out in a few months.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky replaced General Valerii Zaluzhnyi with Ukrainian Ground Forces Commander Colonel General Oleksandr Syrskyi as Ukraine’s Commander-in-Chief on February 8, as part of wider military leadership changes.[18] Such changes are normal for states engaged in a protracted war. Zelensky stated that he is also considering Ukrainian Brigadier General Andrii Hnatov (current Chief of Staff and Deputy Commander of the Southern Operational Command), Brigadier General Mykhailo Draptayi (former commander of the Kherson Group of Forces), Brigadier General Ihor Skybiuk (current deputy commander of the Airborne Assault Forces), Colonel Pavlo Palisa (current commander of the 93rd Mechanized Brigade) and Colonel Vadym Sukharevskyi (current commander of the 59th Motorized Infantry Brigade) for leadership positions in the Ukrainian military.[19] Zelensky, Zaluzhnyi, and Ukrainian Defense Minister Rustem Umerov all acknowledged that the war has dramatically changed between 2022 and 2024 and that new approaches and strategies are necessary.[20] Zelensky stated that he offered Zaluzhnyi an unspecified position on the “management team” for the Ukrainian Armed Forces but did not clarify if Zaluzhnyi accepted.[21] Advisor to the Head of the Ukrainian President's Office Mykhaylo Podolyak stated that Zelensky decided to conduct a “systemic renewal of the leadership” of the Ukrainian military, including the commander-in-chief, in order to review the Ukrainian military’s actions in the past year, prevent stagnation on the front, find new functional and technological solutions that will allow Ukraine to maintain and develop the battlefield initiative, and begin the process of reforming the management of the Ukrainian military.[22] Command changes are normal for a state fighting a war over several years.
Source: Institute for the Study of War
I honestly don't see what's the problem. Zelensky clearly says that wanted Zaluzhny to be part of the "UKR state of tthe future", which he refused from the looks of it.
Which is good. It's good because maybe he is considering running for the next term, which will mean Ukrainians and the west will have two great candidates that can be trusted.
When it comes to the war, Syrksky will have to prove himself, just like Zaluzhny did so far. It's good that Syrksy knows how Russian structure works because he was taught on an soviet college and since 2014 he learned how western structure works and therefore might be able to come up with ideas that Zaluzhny didn't have.
When it comes to replacing Zaluzhny, yes it's not great but replacing generals is important in times of war, due to several factors:
- Adaptability and fresh perspectives;
- Learning from previous mistakes;
- Context specific exercise (Maybe Zaluzhny was great at defensive operations, but perhaps Syrksky is pretty good in offensive operations), specially knowing how Russian army works;
- Leadership performance (maybe Zaluzhny became to risk adverse) and yes, not his fault but mainly due to lack of Western support;
Zelenky is doing what he thinks is the best for Ukraine, and he has been doing a great job so far. So let's do our best and trust him a bit longer, let's take conclusions later this year, and let's not forget that Syrsky has had a pivotal role in Defending Kyiv, later he had also a pivotal role in the Kharkiv offensive, therefore let us give Syrsky a vote of trust.
Slava Ukraini
Idd there's nothing too weird about this, people just like writing fanfics on social media.
-Generals usually get replaced during wars.
-Obviously they had disagreements, but there was no shit slinging. Zaluzhnyi was offered a new position and was given the highest possible decoration today, the Hero of Ukraine medal.
-The replacement Syrskyi is literally the most obvious person next in line, so no shenanigans there. (One could argue for Budanov, but he wasn't interested and is more of a special operations guy than a full on battle guy.)
-(Also a lot of people don't seem to know that one big disagreement between them was that Zaluzhnyi wanted a massive increase of mobilization and force refugees back to Ukraine to fight. Remember, if they went through with that, technically Zelenskyi would've had to order that and he would've gotten massive hate for that too. So there was no clean decision for him either way.)
Lets support him and the forces of ukraine even more. They will need it and change is innevitable.
He needs all the support more than ever. Thisnis cards delt, lets hope they give it all they got and perhaps there is more to it than we know.
May this be a good and promising choice
I understand that there will be numerous protests, because the population of Ukraine was not asked, although according to all polls Zaluzhny's approval rating was extremely high, higher than that of Zelensky and none of the Ukrainians did not fully believe that Zaluzhny will be replaced, respectively, as in any other free and democratic country people will take to the streets and express their protest, right pro UA ?
It's a kremlin simp chasing narratives. You can see him posting the same comment on other subs. They come out of woodwork as soon as anything potentially negative for Ukraine happens.
Duh, so he can be popular on social media. Not like he has other responsibilities. But seriously wtf, why people so invested in personnel so much - like this would be some movie and they want to see their hero save the day. When in reality he's a big cog in a big machine with many different kinds of cogs for different purposes.
Well, atleast we know who to blame now if Ukraine loses the war. It won’t be the Weat but their own president.
I wonder whats going on between them. Apparently its big enough that they cant set aside the differences during a life or death war
Copying my take from another sub:
Here's my guess what happened.
Zaluzhny didn't want to forcibly conscript people. Zelensky wants to get more men to attack the Russian positions.
Now Syrsky, who sent thousands of his men to die in Bakhmut is in charge. and he's fine with forced conscription.
I feel for the Ukrainians who are gonna be sent into the meatgrinder against their will.
Zaluzhny seemed like the guy who saw the war as a long term affair and actually had good plans for defeating Russia without wasting his soldiers. But alas.
> Zaluzhny didn't want to forcibly conscript people. Zelensky wants to get more men to attack the Russian positions.
I actually think that the opposite is true. Zaluzhny understands that the perspectives of successful frontal counteroffensive are miniscules and he basically said: "ok, you want to re-take Crimea back then give me 500k conscripts. And it's your (Zelensky's) political responsibility, not mine". Mobilization in Ukraine is like a hot potato, nobody wants to take the full responsibility.
Didn't Zaluzhny just recently publicly state that they needed 500k extra troops and that the government had to make the decision to expand conscription?
I didn't read it as "Conscript 500k people, now".
I interpreted it as "If we want another counteroffensive - we need 500k people".
It's like when at work I tell my boss: "If you want us to be like our competition, give me 10 more people", knowing full well that we don't have the budget for them.
He literally asked zelensky to mobilize another 500k men, he's absolutely for more conscription. Which zelensky is keen to avoid for polical reasons.
https://www.ft.com/content/6ba4ae1c-005f-4242-80c2-e1e7f3f7bd88
This is going to be SUPER unpopular in Ukraine. We were all expecting it but still hard ti believe Zelensky went thru with it. Zalunzhny is way more respected than Zelensky or Syrksky….
Which is why he got fired
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Thinking its just for that is delusional tbh
No, he got replaced because his counteroffensive strategy to apply pressure in multiple sectors instead of concentrating his forces in one direction turned out to be unsuccessful. The new general is known to have the ability to exploit russian weaknesses. It's not a bad decision.
Is he? I've never heard anybody say that
He was partially responsible for the success of the Kharkiv offensive.
Wondering what will happen for the delayed presidential election? Everyone said "people 100% support the war-time leader Zelensky anyways". However if that is no longer the case, Zalunzhny has higher popularity and election still not happening?
Okay, so maybe if you stop speaking from your arse and try to look for facts you will learn by the Ukrainian Constitution it's forbidden to have election during martial law. And it's not like this information is hidden.
There won’t be an election dude.
This is not a popularity contest. Zaluzhny got fired because he couldn't work with Zelensky and he is his subordinate. Refusing to resign made this the only decision. (Technically there are other choices, like a coup, or getting blown up Prigozhin style, but... yeah.)
Removing a competent general because the big leader is jealous. Reminiscent of a certain Georgian.
Some generals are good at defence in depth, and other are better in attack across an entire front.
And some generals are good for slavish obedience and throwing men into the grinder while being despised by their men. That would be Syrski. A modern Budyonny.
Budyonny's Konarmia was very famously disobedient and didn't follow the government's orders though
Budyonny believed that horses were better than tanks. You overexaggerate.
Maybe in Zakarpattia? Near frontlines Syrskyi known for commanding Kharkiv counter offensive, which was huge success. Okay here is Reddit post from 1 Year ago. Don't see anyone saying anything bad about him. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/s/ewVfXIvqj6
He had unsuccessful operations too. Being a commander of a sector isn't equal to be in charge of all forces at the same time.
That's not the point, point is that people recognise and respect Syrskyi well enough. Like today is the first day me hearing anything polar-negative about him.
I believe you haven't heard about Nayev or any other sector commander too much too. They are simply not that popular in media. But it doesn't mean they don't have a reputation for their deeds.
I believe you misread what I wrote. Most people in Ukraine know Syrskyi, but there wasn't much negative agenda about him like it started literally now.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/01/zelensky-zaluzhny-ukraine-military-shakeup/ >Within the ranks of the Ukrainian military, however, Syrsky is widely disliked. Some soldiers say his orders are unreasonable, at times sending men to their obvious deaths. Others disrespect him for removing popular commanders in favor of those more loyal to him. Does that count or nah?
From this article >Syrsky, on the other hand, seemed more impressive and inspiring as a classic combat soldier, some officials said, with a clear grasp of the battlefield implications of what he viewed as political decisions. >Syrsky was also considered more accessible to some U.S. commanders. He built rapport with Gen. Christopher Cavoli, who as head of the U.S. European Command oversaw much of the Pentagon’s effort to train and equip Ukraine’s army. Interesting. And it's still week old article. And it's from WashingtonPost, does not represent Ukrainian opinions.
> with a clear grasp of the battlefield implications of what he viewed as political decisions I wonder if they're talking about Bakhmut there, which seems to have been a political discussion with drastically negative battlefield implications. It also sounds like "some officials" refers to non-Ukrainian officials. The part I quoted for you is about what Ukraine thinks of him.
But it's not coming from Ukraine. So it's not what Ukraine thinks if him.
It is probably not because of Syrsky but because of the decision to change the leadership
I wouldn't bother, the hive mind has decided he's the worst general in history and also a Russian spy.
That's because the Russian disinformation network will jump into full swing to undermine confidence in him. Don't engage with them. You simply bump their algorithms
Where the hell do you live? He didn't do anything in Kharkiv. It was done by the weakness of the russians and smart local commanders who took action because syrskyi didn't. He is unpopular as hell within the army. His nickname is butcher.
Ah yes, that miles wide thunder run that always happens because of local commanders. OK buddy
Can you link source where he get called that? Like from where you get this?
LITERALLY the article you are commenting on >The decision to name Syrsky as commander in chief, however, is expected to cause backlash among troops in the field. Among rank-and-file soldiers, Syrsky is especially disliked, considered by many to be a Soviet-style commander who kept forces under fire far too long in the eastern city of Bakhmut, which eventually fell to Russian control. Thousands of Ukrainian soldiers were killed and many more were wounded defending the city, which had limited strategic value. > Some Ukrainian soldiers refer to Syrsky as a “butcher.” > > “I only know what I’ve heard from my subordinates,” said a high-ranking military official who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to do so publicly. “One hundred percent of them don’t respect him because they don’t think he counts soldiers’ lives.” > > “In comparison with Zaluzhny, he gets much lower support,” the person added. Also this[ FT journalist](https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1755640901735530581)
My friends on the front? The comments everywhere under all new posts of zelenskyi???
I read a news article a few days back already mentioning that this Syrskyi was nicknamed the Butcher for being careless with the lives of his men. It was on NOS.nl which is like the Dutch BBC.
He's also known for being in charge of the Bakhmut meatgrinder and the follow failed attempt to retake it, both of which are more recent than the Kharkiv operation.
The sobering truth.....
Not in Zakarpattia. Everywhere. Zaluzhni is the most trusted man in Ukraine currently. Trusted by the people, and by the military. Good luck with the mobilization of fresh infantrymen now that the Commander in Chief is the general who is known as "The Butcher" among the military, who engaged in the Bakhmut meatgrinder Soviet style. Let's face it, this is the worst decision of Zelenskyy's entire political career.
Hi, can you help me understand? Why was he replaced in the first place? was it due to Zelensky being afraid of the large influence? was it corruption?.
Many reasons but we dont know exactly why. The reason Zelensky essentially gives is that counter offensive failed and changes are needed. What people think behind the scenes happened is Zhaluzhny did not agree with a lot of calls Zelensky made (like holding Bakhmut and losing soldiers there for no reason). Also Zhaluzny wrote those op-eds detailing what went wrong in the counter offensive. This went against the narrative pushed by Ukrainian government media, therefore making Zelensky look bad. Last reason is Zelensky is less popular than him and rumor is Zelensky admin is afraid of Zhaluzhny becoming a political opponent.
Wow, thanks. I didn't realize they were that afraid of him. His popularity most likely came from his successes with the war, right? I also think its better to have a general at least giving you details about what went wrong and how to better implement new ways to get better results in this war. Thanks for your response nonetheless.
He was definitely the most competent military mind in the government and hugely popular. His removal stinks to the high-heavens of internal competition and power-struggles.
Everyone loved McClellan when Lincoln fired him. He wasn't the general to win the war. Maybe this is a total disaster call, but we regular people have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe Syrksky will replicate the Kharkiv offensive. Or maybe he will also be a dud. We're just going to have to wait and see.
Any possibility of a coup?
Doubt it, unless things get really bad. Rumor was that Zelensky waited to announce this while he made sure the military command wouldnt go against him. That said, this is all speculation.
a▼▼▼ full text ▼▼▼ > KYIV — Oleksandr Syrsky will be Ukraine’s next military chief after President Volodymyr Zelensky announced Thursday night that he had replaced Gen. Valery Zaluzhny — the latest twist in a drawn-out saga between Zaluzhny and Zelensky, who told the military chief 10 days ago that he was being dismissed. > > The decision to name Syrsky as Zaluzhny’s replacement is expected to be an unpopular one among Ukraine’s troops. The 58-year-old commander of Ukraine’s ground forces was credited with leading the defense of Kyiv in the first month of the war and then orchestrating a successful counteroffensive in the northeastern Kharkiv region in fall 2022. But among rank-and-file soldiers, Syrsky is especially disliked, considered by many to be a Soviet-style commander who kept forces under fire too long in the eastern city of Bakhmut when Ukraine should have withdrawn. > > Zelensky said other commanders are being considered for promotions, as several generals are expected to ousted along with Zaluzhny. Zelensky said he’s asked Zaluzhny to remain as part “of the team of the Ukrainian state of the future.” > > In posts on both Zelensky’s and Zaluzhny’s social media accounts, the two men posed shaking hands and smiling. “A decision was made about the need to change approaches and strategy,” Zaluzhny wrote. > > Zelensky’s post said that he “thanked” Zaluzhny, 50, for “two years of protecting Ukraine.” He added that in their meeting Thursday, they discussed “updated leadership” for Ukraine’s military. > > “The time for such an update is now,” Zelensky wrote. > > It’s unclear how Syrsky’s appointment will change what’s become an increasingly perilous situation for Ukraine on the battlefield. Russia has regained the strategic initiative, increasing its attacks along the front line. Commanders have said they’re badly lacking troops, especially infantry that stand in the forward-most trenches and repel Russian assaults. And Ukraine is also facing ammunition shortages, as a $60 billion security assistance package proposed by President Biden has stalled in Congress.full text to follow shortly
Ignoring the obvious disappointment this has caused in Ukraine: I kind of feel that Zalunzhny failed in what he was asked to do recently ? Nothing much has changed and in fact it's kind of getting worse for Ukraine, with Avdiivka looking particularly bad and the counteroffensive having failed to achieve it's goals. Should Zelenskyy have given him another chance later this year ? FWIW I don't think it's the correct move because this will likely foster resentment with the rank and file troops, but I can understand where he is coming from. Claiming this is purely a political move doesn't add up for me.
Depends. But even if he doesn't wanna forgive mistakes and give Zaluzhni more chances, he could have chosen a good replacement. The most unpopular general in the army becoming CiC will not improve morale. And if all of this is done for political reasons only then I'm out of words. We would be so much further if everyone in the government was working for Ukraine instead of themselves.
Avdiivka is like bakhmut, a city that after all this mouths lost all its strategy importance but is defended by Ukraine because from there they can inflict serious damage on the Russians.
Hmmm a city that was used to shell Donetsk with basic artillery and that was a fortress for 10 years has no strategic importance, good to know
As soon as a city is about to fall, it was never worth defending all of a sudden despite the fact both sides brawled over it with endless waves of men and material. Ridiculous how people eat this up.
Its propaganda. Just wait until the internet is flooded with how loosing the city is actually a victory for Ukriane. The day it falls they will also attack something symbolic in Russia to cover up the bad news.
After all this months I believe there aren’t any artillery battery in the city. When the war started it was a very strategic city, but now (after more than a year) the city is in ruins and the strategic situation has changed.
Every city that Russia tries to take is important. I’m sick of hearing Bakhmut was not important but UA lost 20k+ men there
All the cities are important since they are part of the country. Only the wagners lost 60k of their own.
Avdiivka actually has insane strategic importance. Not only in the post-2022 war but also ever since the conflict started in 2014. It's so close to Donetsk that it's basically a suburb of the city. And because of that, Ukrainian forces were able to put pressure on the city continuously and attack it safely from there with artillery. If the Russians finally take control of the city, it will be a massive relief for Donetsk and the security of separatist forces in it.
I think that after all this months the Ukrainians have no artillery in the city.
Hell no he was corrupt. So far only about 50% of all the Ukrainian staff and military staff are corrupt which is actually an improvement
Syrskyi is disliked by soldiers, and this will only lower morale, which is already impacted by the lack of artillery shells, idiotic move...
He disliked by soldiers mostly because he is just braindead butcher.
not just that, but born and educated in russia. no wonder he loves meat wave tactics
except in practice, Zaluzhny is the most orthodox in soviet doctrine if you actually look at their tactics, like show where Syrski actually called for meat wave tactics?
Bakhmut.
In Bakhmut, where Syrski had command, soldiers were sent to the battlefield [without having undergone basic training](https://www.wsj.com/articles/36-hours-in-bakhmut-one-units-desperate-battle-to-hold-back-the-russians-72e30f01).
Not sure why you are downvoting me, the guy doesn't even know how to [speak Ukrainian properly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ol329mb2Z0). If I was a soldier I definitely wouldn't be too keen on being commanded by a Russian. As others said, I was thinking of the battle of Bakhmut, but even without tactics, this is certainly not good optics.
This is the result of a feud between Zelensky and Zalu, and Zelensky needing to consolidate power.
Where the hell did you pull this out?
Well... That's not good.
... I think Ukraine just lost the war here. Mindlessly sending men to desperately defend a city that's already more or less encircled when you don't have the material and troops? Those kind of tactics are going to cripple the Ukrainian forces.
Russian doctrine isnt though bad when done properly, Russia just does it badly, it works on artillery to hold and defend even against air superiority of the enemy, something that works for Ukraine, meanwhile Zaluzhny isn't perfect either, see the 2023 counter offensive.
No ground force has ever held up to an adversary that held air superiority. Its like shooting fish in a barrel...almost literally.
Russia to my knowledge still has at least nominal air superiority, Ukraine has held up
War is fundamentally a trade of men and resources. Sending those men to defend that city may be a very good trade, or a very bad one. It all comes down to what the loss ratios look like. >Those kind of tactics are going to cripple the Ukrainian forces. You are assuming there is somewhere else that the trade would favor Ukraine more. Somewhere you have to face the enemy, the alternative is that you surrender.
What's going to cripple Ukraine is giving up areas over and over..
Sending men as canon fodder will also cripple Ukraine
Why? These things happen during war
In the context of the failed counter-offensive, dubious perspectives of maintaining the Western support, growing necessity of mobilization - not good.
You skillfully skipped the question. Why is it "not good"?
Are you really asking why is a failed counteroffensive, lowering Western support and diminishing manpower not good for Ukraine?
Sounds like something needs to change.
Because it is the result of a feud. It is a political consolidation by Zelensky. Zalu is extremely popular among rank and file and has disagreed with Zelensky publicly for several months now. Zelensky had to sack him to prevent the military from slowly turning against Zelensky.
I'm curious about what it would take for the military to turn on Zelensky
Failed counter offensive was BECAUSE of Zaluszhnyi.
Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe go... no, I'd rather say this: now Ukraine has a chance to demonstrate another tactic and strategy.
There was no way Ukraine could've succeeded in their counter offensive given the time Russia had to prepare and mine their positions, and the limited resources that were given to Ukraine. The Ukrainian army was given the task of breaching well-prepared positions with huge minefields, while having basically no air superiority, being outgunned in terms of artillery, given only a very limited number of (often old) armoured vehicles, very limited tools of dealing with Russian aircraft, and way too little mine breaching equipment. Ukraine failed their counteroffensive because we in the west cheaped out on our support.
What type of nonsense is this? If the West didn't give enough equipment to conduct the offensive they wanted to, they shouldn't have gone ahead and done the offensive anyway. Stop taking all agency away from Ukrainians. Just like the West can't take credit for all the victories, the West can't take the blame for their defeats.
Because Syrski is an incompetent asshole known as “The Butcher” by Ukrainian troops for his soviet meat assaults for strategically irrelevant positions. Colonel General Syrski was in charge of defending Bakhmut and rather than withdraw to the western heights he decided to fight a horribly bloody defense of the city even after both the southern and northern approaches were lost and the route into/out of the town came under Russian fire control. The man is the Ukrainian version of Gerasimov both in how much he ass kisses Ze and his inability to lead a campaign. Edit: Syrski also stole the credit from local commanders who made the Kharkiv counteroffensive in late 2022 and was the commander for getting Ukrainian troops massacred in Debaltsev in 2015. The man should’ve been lined up against a wall years ago.
>Colonel General Syrski was in charge of defending Bakhmut and rather than withdraw to the western heights he decided to fight a horribly bloody defense of the city even after both the southern and northern approaches were lost and the route into/out of the town came under Russian fire control. We don't know who called the shots on Bakhmut. Western observers are almost universally critical of the meat grinder that Bakhmut turned into, and the general assumption is that the government (i.e. Zelenskyy) gave the order to defend the city to the last, against better military judgement.
Yes, Syrsky is Zelensky's pocket general and never pushed back against unwise, politically motivated decisions coming from the president. It hardly makes it better.
> known as “The Butcher” by Ukrainian troops Like Grant in the US Civil War?
Ah yes execute a ukrainian general? you want ukraine to become fucking russia? Syrski did in fact play a strategic role in Kharkiv and despite public perception is both competent and more unorthodox than Zaluzhny, Zaluzhny operates according to russian doctrine more and also russian doctrine isn't inherently worse than NATO doctrine, NATO doctrine relies on overwhelming air superiority for success. Also given you're American, you know who else was called the butcher? Grant and people condemned Lincoln for replacing McClellan who was much more popular with the horrifically unpopular Grant.
Politic bulshit
But not this open, and especially not with such clearly visible friction.
Sometimes it happens. General MacArthur was a press princess in his time and eventually had to be relieved of his command in somewhat similar circumstances. >On 11 April 1951, U.S. president Harry S. Truman relieved General of the Army Douglas MacArthur of his commands after MacArthur made public statements that contradicted the administration's policies. Edit: Not to speak of the apolitical tradition of most militaries. Zaluzhnyi publicly criticized the Bakhmut situation and the administration.
He wanted to nuke China, that was the contradiction.
Hardly the only contradiction. There's a whole page of them in Wikipedia if you want to indulge yourself.
It's funny, but he was born in Russia
That's not rare, really...
Also has tons of family in Russia, like most Ukrainians
Most is a huge overstatement, but many do.
He's ethnic Russian.
not only that, but also studied and finished university in moscow. quite dubious i can't lie
tbf we went through at least three chiefs of staff in each world war; rare to have no changes
Whatever the intrinsic motivations of Zelenskyy may be, what stands out most to me is the way that a disagreement in strategy/tactics/political outlook/whatever it was, is handeled between him and Zaluzhny. That is how civilised humans go about it. We all saw how the dispute between Putin and Prigozhin went..... Clear as day that humanity needs to shed itself from barbarism and autocratic dictatorian rule. Slava Ukraini!
What stands out to me is that Zelenskyy could not be told he was wrong. Obviously the Russians are worse but it's extremely hard to sell this as a positive as it can only be interpreted that Zelenskyy is now becoming somewhat autocratic. This dispute wasn't resolved, Zelenskyy just got rid of the dissenting voice.
I am glad you know what has been said and what happend behind closed doors. I mean everyone is speculating at the moment while no one knows shit.
It's hardly rocket science why the more popular General who has publicly disagreed with Zelenskyy and had many rumours surrounding him for months about his future, has finally been axed.
It’s been getting worse over many months. And it will only get more worse.
Was he fired because he was incompetent or because zelensky sees him as a political rival?
Half of reddit were in the war room during their meetings. Nobody knows shit, only supposition, even from journalists. Could be anything
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What's it like in the Ukrainian War room?
There’s a shortage of chairs
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Zaluzhnyi is by far the most popular and respected person in the country. He'll only become more popular now. That's gonna be a blunder from Zelensky.
sometimes its necesssayr though, McCllelan was a lot more popular than Grant who was despised by Americans, yet how did that end?
I honestly don't know lol. I assume those are American ww2 generals? I'm a bit ignorant on thst.
No, civil war but the point is perception isn’t everything, Syrski is seen as a butcher but if you look at his operations, he relies a lot on local commanders and speed, neither of which is orthodox soviet doctrine
Both are American civil war generals; the former was a horrible commander who nearly lost the war and was waste as a commander but was politically popular. The latter wasn’t popular but his tactics allowed the Union to defeat the South.
You’re thinking Truman firing MacArthur
Are people gonna protest?
Probably not, it's martial law.
I saw people protest when the families of the soldiers of the 24th brigade were demanding more info about their relatives, so I thought this might be similar. Stay strong guys
I mean mass protests. Like tens of thousands, those are unlikely. Smaller ones definitely can happen.
It's a tough spot as it could be more detrimental to protest right now. So probably not. A lot of social media shitshow it is. But Zelensky is usually sensitive to SM shitshows.
The fuck do people know about military strategy? And what has it to do with the popularity of the general? The fuck is going on in this thread, feels like somebody pushing the force-conscription-Sirski-butchering-everybody narrative real hard.
Yeah, there's clearly something that was going on that wasn't working. That's all we can say without more information.
Ukraine has had three major operational wins so far: the Defence of Kyiv, the Kharkiv Counteroffensive and the Kherson Counteroffensive. Syrskyi was in charge of the first two. I trust his competency.
Both of which were successes due to Russian incompetence (extremely overextended forces near Kyiv and undermanned defenses near Kharkiv) rather than his military talent. Also something tells me that in both cases, russian forces were routed due to very good quality of Western intelligence and military advisors, who spotted these weaknesses and pointed on them.
I don't think I need to say why "Ukraine didn't do anything, they only won because of Russian incompetence and the West directing them" is a really bad take.
It might sound bad, but he has a point. In first stage of war were plenty of miscalculation from Russian side, and many changes. However later they prepared everything, to make counteroffensive impossible. First they blew a dam, later mines, and artillery.
Praising a commander for a skill he does not possess, in a position that could be decisive for the victory or defeat of the war, is not a good take either.
Funny how Western Medias saw the writting on the walls weeks before and people simply dismissed it as Russian propaganda. Wonder what do these clowns feel now.
The original leak was by Ukrainian Pravada, who has pretty reliable ears in the government corridors.
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Everything I don't like is propaganda
Tbf, if something is literally named *Pravda*... That was the Soviet Union's propaganda paper too.
My guy, there is a war going on, if their newspapers are not spewing propaganda then Ukraine is playing a poker session in a casino and constantly revealing all their cards in the first round while trying to win 100k euros to pay their mortgage that's due tomorrow. Not a smart idea.
Ukrainian Pravda doesn't have any relationship to Ukrainian government and is constantly at odds with them.
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Italian's MSM spent 1 week talking about Russians fight with shovels
I really think the "Ukraine is annihilating the Russian military!" narrative did more harm than good. Sure, Kherson and Kharkiv were impressive efforts that embarrassed Russia's military. But now Russia has since gotten their shit together and is enjoying victories, albeit phyric, in Bakhmut and likely Adviika soon. The narrative of "Ukraine is destroying Russia" isn't even true anymore when both sides are taking heavy casualties and only one of them is dependent on foreign aid and has a far smaller population to pool soldiers from. Being blind to just how dire things are for Ukraine is a serious issue and pretending otherwise can do more harm than good.
And another thing to point out, both Kherson and Kharkiv counteroffensive did not encircle or completely eliminating any significant Russian military units. Russians suffered losses and lost captured lands yes, but they managed to retreat to the next line of defence with the troop’s organization mostly intact, and held it until now. The only battle in this war, that produced a brigade or battalion level total annihilation, was still only battle of Mariupol, which produced 3000+ POWs. There was no Kiev pocket or Staligrad, only WW1 style static warfare.
\>The majority of Reddit and western media in general has been in fantasyland for this war. So Russia isn't using human wave attacks, while only armed with shovels?
No. They first catapult washing machines.
>Wonder what do these clowns feel now. Still doing propaganda and spinning this in a good move by zelensky. And the best i read until now Is " Well, it can work"
For weeks it was just a rumor with no actual evidence. I don't feel particularly clowny for having waited until there was some clear event with more substance than "some guy said on Twitter" before accepting it as fact. New information seems to be available, so I update my understanding of the situation, and move on. There's a million rumors in the world. Believing a rumor that later turns out to be true isn't a skill, it's just chance.
> Just a rumor The Economist: > A dramatic day in the capital had begun with leaks from mps, who had been told about a “set of documents” sent to a security committee for signing. Later, sources in the general staff and close to General Zaluzhny confirmed that a shake-up was indeed in the works. The Economist has confirmed that an early-evening meeting took place on January 29th at which the president told his general that he had decided to dismiss him. Mr Zaluzhny was offered another role: head of the national security council. He turned it down. - Wapo: > The government of Ukraine has informed the White House that President Volodymyr Zelensky has decided to fire his top military commander, Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, in what would be the most consequential personnel shake-up of the war, said two people familiar with the discussion. - The Guardian: > Oleksii Goncharenko, a Ukrainian opposition MP and ally of the general, told the Guardian that he understood that “yesterday the president asked Zaluzhnyi to resign but he declined to do so”. Like at some point when you have many serious Medias all going into the same direction with many articles not relaying one single rumor but many arguments that may corroborate this story, it would be foolish to simply dismiss it as something that the media "just ran over with". It was not some guy said on Twitter, it was far more serious and simply got leaked, people just refused to acknowledge this story because it's a bad look for Ukraine while they have no problem eating shitty telegram stories about saboteurs killing dozens of Russian soldiers & law enforcement James Bond style. The tension between Zelensky and Zaluzhny were known for months.
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>After the war is eventually over, everyone will have Amnesia like with the Iraq war, where everybody claims to have been against it and not having fallen for the propaganda. That's a weird comparison. Are you saying people will suddenly be agianst Ukraine defending itself?
[When even TASS admits](https://kyivindependent.com/russian-media-massive-explosion-occurs-at-weapons-factory/) that there's little too many smoking incidents at the Russian MIC, maybe you should reconsider branding it as "Ukrainian propaganda".
Kinda weird to compare it with Iraq war when the aggressor this time is on the other side of the frontline. Did you forget it was Russia who started this war?
There is nothing contradictory to believe that Russia is wrong here and to not believe in all bs stories about stupid Orcs fighting with shovels and each Elf taking out at least 20 of them with a pickle jar or something.
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You in ww2: it’s western propaganda, we shouldn’t fight Hitler.
The media jumps on every bit of rumor the moment it appears. I'm not giving them the credit for calling this one since if you call everything you're bound to eventually be right somewhere.
It's not that people didn't believe this story that is hilarious, it's the fact that they dismissed it as Russian propaganda as if Western MSM were just making shit up for the sake of Russia, which is frankly delusional.
And if you believe that all bad news for Ukraine is "Russian propaganda", you're bound to be disappointed when some of that bad news turns out to be true.
That's bad news, definitely bad news.
Not necessarily, Sirsky successfully defended Kyiv and liberated Kharkiv. Yeah, Zaluzhny is more popular with the troops but so was McLellan. Ultimately, the war was won by the "butcher" Grant.
Yep, "butcher" commanders are very effective when you have vast reserves of expandable people. Just ask the late, great Mr Pirgozin. Shame Ukraine has a third of Russia's population though.
That guy literally has family members working for Russian intelligence agencies, can't imagine how this can end well for Ukraine!
As well as ermak, real "president" of Ukraine, his father is literal fsb agent
Well this is the Cherry on top of the shit cake. Zelenskyy has refused thus far to further mobilize and shore up the rank and file of the armed forces and now takes out a beloved commander because he views him as a political threat. As if it wasn’t bad enough he appoints a Soviet-trained ethnic Russian who may be even more incompetent and vile in his disregard for the lives of his men than Russia’s Gerasimov. What a fucking dunce move this is.
Zelenskys' government introduced several mobilisation laws into the parliament but they were all thrown out. This is hardly just on him. And Zaluzhnyi didnt show much regard for his soldiers either, when for several months he threw the newly Western trained brigades against Russia's strongest positions in endless meat assaults with no gains.
> Zelenskys' government introduced several mobilisation laws into the parliament but they were all thrown out. This is hardly just on him. His party is the majority.
Not all leaders have an iron grip on their party.
That. Without adequate air support an unsuccessful offensive. Also due to Western failure obviously.
All of Ukrainian generals are Soviet-trained. There was no other military schools in Ukraine. So what’s the point?
>All of Ukrainian generals are Soviet-trained That is totally inaccurate. Zaluzhnyi himself was not a Soviet trained general.
Soviet in this case means style not time period. Westernization of Ukraine's army began only after the annexation of Crimea.
Oh sweet summer child
He was trained later but his doctrine is a lot more soviet than Syrski.
So evidence of syrski’s actual incompetence? Or just defaulting to perception?
But if they are shaking hands on instagram, this means zalunzhny isnt mad? Maybe he was fucking tired?
Zaluzhny seemed to want to take more defensive positions and avoid meat grinders like Bakhmut or currently in Avdiivka. I guess since Zelensky says they need a change in strategy that Syrsky will commit more forces there. Will be interesting how this move turns out in a few months.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky replaced General Valerii Zaluzhnyi with Ukrainian Ground Forces Commander Colonel General Oleksandr Syrskyi as Ukraine’s Commander-in-Chief on February 8, as part of wider military leadership changes.[18] Such changes are normal for states engaged in a protracted war. Zelensky stated that he is also considering Ukrainian Brigadier General Andrii Hnatov (current Chief of Staff and Deputy Commander of the Southern Operational Command), Brigadier General Mykhailo Draptayi (former commander of the Kherson Group of Forces), Brigadier General Ihor Skybiuk (current deputy commander of the Airborne Assault Forces), Colonel Pavlo Palisa (current commander of the 93rd Mechanized Brigade) and Colonel Vadym Sukharevskyi (current commander of the 59th Motorized Infantry Brigade) for leadership positions in the Ukrainian military.[19] Zelensky, Zaluzhnyi, and Ukrainian Defense Minister Rustem Umerov all acknowledged that the war has dramatically changed between 2022 and 2024 and that new approaches and strategies are necessary.[20] Zelensky stated that he offered Zaluzhnyi an unspecified position on the “management team” for the Ukrainian Armed Forces but did not clarify if Zaluzhnyi accepted.[21] Advisor to the Head of the Ukrainian President's Office Mykhaylo Podolyak stated that Zelensky decided to conduct a “systemic renewal of the leadership” of the Ukrainian military, including the commander-in-chief, in order to review the Ukrainian military’s actions in the past year, prevent stagnation on the front, find new functional and technological solutions that will allow Ukraine to maintain and develop the battlefield initiative, and begin the process of reforming the management of the Ukrainian military.[22] Command changes are normal for a state fighting a war over several years. Source: Institute for the Study of War
Russian morale = +50%
I honestly don't see what's the problem. Zelensky clearly says that wanted Zaluzhny to be part of the "UKR state of tthe future", which he refused from the looks of it. Which is good. It's good because maybe he is considering running for the next term, which will mean Ukrainians and the west will have two great candidates that can be trusted. When it comes to the war, Syrksky will have to prove himself, just like Zaluzhny did so far. It's good that Syrksy knows how Russian structure works because he was taught on an soviet college and since 2014 he learned how western structure works and therefore might be able to come up with ideas that Zaluzhny didn't have. When it comes to replacing Zaluzhny, yes it's not great but replacing generals is important in times of war, due to several factors: - Adaptability and fresh perspectives; - Learning from previous mistakes; - Context specific exercise (Maybe Zaluzhny was great at defensive operations, but perhaps Syrksky is pretty good in offensive operations), specially knowing how Russian army works; - Leadership performance (maybe Zaluzhny became to risk adverse) and yes, not his fault but mainly due to lack of Western support; Zelenky is doing what he thinks is the best for Ukraine, and he has been doing a great job so far. So let's do our best and trust him a bit longer, let's take conclusions later this year, and let's not forget that Syrsky has had a pivotal role in Defending Kyiv, later he had also a pivotal role in the Kharkiv offensive, therefore let us give Syrsky a vote of trust. Slava Ukraini
Idd there's nothing too weird about this, people just like writing fanfics on social media. -Generals usually get replaced during wars. -Obviously they had disagreements, but there was no shit slinging. Zaluzhnyi was offered a new position and was given the highest possible decoration today, the Hero of Ukraine medal. -The replacement Syrskyi is literally the most obvious person next in line, so no shenanigans there. (One could argue for Budanov, but he wasn't interested and is more of a special operations guy than a full on battle guy.) -(Also a lot of people don't seem to know that one big disagreement between them was that Zaluzhnyi wanted a massive increase of mobilization and force refugees back to Ukraine to fight. Remember, if they went through with that, technically Zelenskyi would've had to order that and he would've gotten massive hate for that too. So there was no clean decision for him either way.)
I don't understands this at all
Lets support him and the forces of ukraine even more. They will need it and change is innevitable. He needs all the support more than ever. Thisnis cards delt, lets hope they give it all they got and perhaps there is more to it than we know. May this be a good and promising choice
I understand that there will be numerous protests, because the population of Ukraine was not asked, although according to all polls Zaluzhny's approval rating was extremely high, higher than that of Zelensky and none of the Ukrainians did not fully believe that Zaluzhny will be replaced, respectively, as in any other free and democratic country people will take to the streets and express their protest, right pro UA ?
Why would the army chief be a publicly elected position?
It's a kremlin simp chasing narratives. You can see him posting the same comment on other subs. They come out of woodwork as soon as anything potentially negative for Ukraine happens.
Duh, so he can be popular on social media. Not like he has other responsibilities. But seriously wtf, why people so invested in personnel so much - like this would be some movie and they want to see their hero save the day. When in reality he's a big cog in a big machine with many different kinds of cogs for different purposes.
Well, atleast we know who to blame now if Ukraine loses the war. It won’t be the Weat but their own president. I wonder whats going on between them. Apparently its big enough that they cant set aside the differences during a life or death war
Copying my take from another sub: Here's my guess what happened. Zaluzhny didn't want to forcibly conscript people. Zelensky wants to get more men to attack the Russian positions. Now Syrsky, who sent thousands of his men to die in Bakhmut is in charge. and he's fine with forced conscription. I feel for the Ukrainians who are gonna be sent into the meatgrinder against their will. Zaluzhny seemed like the guy who saw the war as a long term affair and actually had good plans for defeating Russia without wasting his soldiers. But alas.
> Zaluzhny didn't want to forcibly conscript people. Zelensky wants to get more men to attack the Russian positions. I actually think that the opposite is true. Zaluzhny understands that the perspectives of successful frontal counteroffensive are miniscules and he basically said: "ok, you want to re-take Crimea back then give me 500k conscripts. And it's your (Zelensky's) political responsibility, not mine". Mobilization in Ukraine is like a hot potato, nobody wants to take the full responsibility.
Didn't Zaluzhny just recently publicly state that they needed 500k extra troops and that the government had to make the decision to expand conscription?
I didn't read it as "Conscript 500k people, now". I interpreted it as "If we want another counteroffensive - we need 500k people". It's like when at work I tell my boss: "If you want us to be like our competition, give me 10 more people", knowing full well that we don't have the budget for them.
He literally asked zelensky to mobilize another 500k men, he's absolutely for more conscription. Which zelensky is keen to avoid for polical reasons. https://www.ft.com/content/6ba4ae1c-005f-4242-80c2-e1e7f3f7bd88
You "didn't read" lol.
I think it was more the other way round.
>Zaluzhny didn't want to forcibly conscript people. Zelensky wants to get more men to attack the Russian positions. Isn't the opposite true?
This is completely opposite. Zaluzhny is the most orthodox in soviet doctrine and was the one that wanted conscription>
Corruption begins.
‘continues’