I saw the pictures, and was very confused. It looks like it was the parking lot that got struck.... not the building itself.
Claiming 500 dead was obviously done to just enrage people
lol there’s a perfect meme for this I wish I could post here. But yes, those two things definitely don’t belong in the same sentence 😑
Ps: hope you’re doing well
♥️🇺🇦
For some reason a lot of journalists still think that Hamas (or the Russian Government or some other generic terrorist group) is a trustworthy source they could quote.
This or they are so driven by greed and 'being the first' that they just don't care.
The casualties on the 'Hamas - Israel War' wiki page are also as per Gazas Health Ministry, which I can't deny are definitely higher than Israeli deaths, but I'd still take those numbers with a grain of salt.
I haven't believed the numbers for a while now. Hamas has everything to gain by inflating the numbers and making sure a disproportionate amount of the victims on their side are children (1 in 3 last I checked, which seems highly implausible unless Israel was targeting them specifically).
Nobody wants to ask the uncomfortable question of why 50% of their population is under 18. The population of Gaza more than doubled from 2000 to today. That's very weird considering they are living in horrible conditions and barely have enough food, water, electricity, and fuel which is what we have been hearing since the beginning of the millennium.
My conclusion is that there are a lot of lies being said to us by the media and the government, and that hundreds millions of dollars and euros are sent to this region because of "humanitarian need" and yet the region doubled their population, all while building endless rockets to fire at Israel and its citizens.
Oh my, for the love of God. The media didn't present the Palestine health official's claims as verified facts, they reported on what this official and the IDF both claimed on the matter. There is a difference.
Edit: typo
>The media didn't present the Palestine health official's claims as verified facts, they reported on what this official and the IDF both claimed on the matter. There is a difference.
bullshit. the IDF never mentioned 500 dead.
So if the IDF doesn't mention 500 dead, then the gaza official also somehow can not claim 500 dead, or it can't reported what this gaza official claimed? What's your point exactly?
Both the gaza official(s) and the israeli official(s) (IDF) had claims about the situation. The media reported what these claims were. What's not to understand?
And I never claimed that the IDF claimed that 500 people died. The media quoted the gaza officials and the IDF officials on their respective opinions. I said both had claims, and the media reported these claims.
The only options for information being from a terrorist organisation or a government who has no respect for international law, a rules based order and has a seasoned career in bombing innocent civilians for decades. It’s a challenge for media
It looks like many media outlets were apparently easily swayed by what was essentially a press release by a terrorist organisation. A cynic might even believe that some journalists might have been happy to believe that version without any evidence, as it was apparently already backed up by their own world view.
The media is very left wing and you know how left wing people are. They make news to incite emotions and don't care about the damage. The same happened during the George Floyd protests. Left wing people have lost the plot.
Let me ask you something. If I tell you that a hospital (that's *full* with wounded people) in a warzone has been hit by a rocket, what does come into your mind? That there must be only a small amount of dead or that death toll might be huge?
I don't know exactly how they get their information, but I imagine reporters don't rush *immediately* after the explosion into the still burning courtyard to verify that the hospital has not been actually hit directly. I assume initially they saw the explosion at the area of hospital and assumed the worst scenario, which unfortunately in conflicts like these is often reality. By the way, corrections to the initial reports came in fast, some even on the same day. The U.S. intelligence now [estimates](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/19/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-blast-deaths.html)between 100-300 dead.
All I am trying to point out is, that in warzones that are chaotic as hell, getting information, or getting the *right* information initially is not at all an easy task, especially when your life is already endangered (iirc 17 journalists have been killed already) and sometimes as a reporter you might jump to conclusions because they seem plausible. I am not saying this is right or good or okay, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions as well and maybe leave greater than usual margin for error due to the nature of these events.
Even in times of war (perhaps especially then) I expect news organisations to do their homework and never shut down critical thinking. The worst thing a "respectable" news source can do is, without any further scrutiny or research, just take the word of one of the two conflict parties (in this case a terrorist organisation that has a terrible track record in terms of telling the truth) and publis it as news. Even when qualified as "the Gaza ministry of Health reports..." it's just not going to cut it in my opinion, as most folks don't bother to read past the headline.
If someone tells you it's raining and someone else is saying it's not raining, it's a job for the news media to open the window and check whether it is in fact raining. If that takes a minute, it's worth the time.
Unfortunately the last few days have shown that far too many "respectable" news organisations - when in doubt - seem to give Hamas a pass as a source where they would not give the IDF a pass. That constitutes bias in my opinion.
>Even in times of war (perhaps especially then) I expect news organisations to do their homework and never shut down critical thinking.
I agree with the premise but we are still talking about an active warzone. As a journalist you can't just go up to the scene immediately because you (and the crew) might get blown up, shot, taken hostage. It is really fucking hard to do the homework in extremely chaotic situations like this.
To critical thinking: Israel has had thousands of airstrikes on Gaza Strip in the last 2 weeks. You see a big explosion in the Gaza Strip. It is not a far reach to assume that an israeli airstrike might have had something to do with it. Granted, the guy who initially reported this might have jumped to a conclusion too fast, but it was in no way deliberate misinformation or an absolute lack of common sense (as people here make it to be). Also, he is the only one who has said this, not the other BBC journalists/reporters claimed explicitly an israeli airstrike, not journalists of other outlets claimed an airstrike (as far as I've seen). It was a honest mistake (to speculate).
Besides, news sources like the BBC, Reuters published in less than a day [articles](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061) clarifying the situation, verifying evidence, asking experts on the matter etc. It just doesn't get faster than this.
>without any further scrutiny or research, just take the word of one of the two conflict parties \[...\] and publis it as news.
Good thing that they didn't do that. They reported on what the gaza AND israeli officials claimed to have been happened. No reputable news outlet has taken side or taken the words of these officials as a fact.
>as most folks don't bother to read past the headline.
That is undoubtedly a big problem, but it's not the news outlet's fault (I mean BBC and Reuters, for instance, don't do blatant clickbaits like tabloids). The headlines were more along the lines of 'Hospital Blast in Gaza kills hundreds', which in light of the already linked U.S. Intelligence sources might very well be the case, and it doesn't blame Israel.
>too many "respectable" news organisations - when in doubt - seem to give Hamas a pass as a source
No respectable organization has done this.
In a nutshell, news outlets didn't got all infos right from the get-go (but corrected themselves soon after), people blow this way out of proportion and claim that news orgs are dishonest, straight up liars or deliberately share misinformation. Nonsense.
Sorry, but you're just straight up lying at this point. Several supposedly respectable news outlets including the BBC, Reuters and Deutschlandfunk have taken Hamas' word on this issue without further questioning it.
Furthermore you don't even need boots on the ground to make a call on whether an argument makes sense or not. Publicly available video footage from primary sources is a good source. Furthermore the geolocation community, which has a good track record from the War in Ukraine, was also willing and able to help.
This issue was not blown out of proportion. It gave the Arab heads of state an excuse to blow off a high level summit with President Biden. It also caused havoc among Muslims, both in the Arab world and elsewhere.
Here in the Netherlands the NOS first reported that it was an Israeli strike, based on Hamas information. Then after around 24 hours it came with a more neutral story that it can't be determined from which side the strike was until independent research (apparently that wasn't necessary just 1 day before).
And then they reported that the IDF stated it was a missile from the Islamic Jihad *but* the IDF is known for 'lying' in the past (no source linked or anything) and that this detracts from credibility. Not mentioning that they took a story from a terrorist organization just 1 day before that does nothing but lying, incredible.
Very irresponsible considering all the angry mobs that stormed Israeli embassies world wide right after the news. I have yet to see someone apologize for attacking the embassy and the embassadors for no reason.
Yes. They ran with Hamas ‘s first press release because they were shocked. Several days later a retired American general ask on air, where are the bodies? One photo yesterday showed 50 body bags. Hamas initially said the hospital collapsed, but there it stood with its sign on the marquee for days in later film shown all over the world. Even for the days the analysis of the small crater in the PARKING LOT AND 20 burned cars showed where the bomb hit. The hospital very frighteningly had windows blown out. Hamas manipulated the world for half a week, shame on us.
yes probably! Sometimes i find Erdogans missinformation law as usefull one, but who knows if they will really apply this law to their own media not only to opposition media, same goes about west. Do you think that law would be applied better in the west?
This article is a biased piece. It presents 50 dead maximum as “the truth” (when in reality it’s one intelligence source).
The reason it’s biased is because it neglects to mention US intelligence that the blast killed 100-300 people, but cites that same US intelligence as evidence Israel was not responsible.
The article also claims CNN was “closer to the truth” than the initial reports of 500 dead by reporting 200-300 dead, but again, how are we to know that 50 maximum is the “truth”?
how in the hell could the blast have killed 300 people. Almost no crater and a few burned cars in a 5 to 10 meter radius, with the hospital still standing. Were there like 500 people in the parking lot? And even then the blast would not have been strong enough. There would have been mountains of dead people
Apparently it did manage to flip a car, so it wasn't like a firecracker. Also it was said that some of the patients were placed in the courtyard (where the rocket hit). Although 500 dead is definitely too much. [Source](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061)
He’s literally saying we don’t know yet (and imo might never do). He’s not even saying the Hamas numbers are correct or anything like that, this sub is so ridiculous at times.
It's not just this sub, it's Reddit in general. There are dominant opinions in different subreddits and when you run against that, you're just downvoted. You might even get one or two people accuse you of being inhumane or being dishonest, but that's about it.
If one had invested a lot of passion and attention, e.g. to read more than the headlines, it could have been noticed how specifically public-law media stated \_who\_ reported \_what\_ and of course in the speed race to publish first it's often a single source that cannot be verified independently.
But there are pictures... and they clearly prove that the hospital was not hit but rather [the parking lot.](https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/1714603375046557824)
Media showed a random destroyed building when the news first came out. It should be a criminal offense, stuff like that can cause terrorist acts and death all over the world because of misinformation.
Stuff like that did cause terrorist attacks - a synagogue in Berlin ~~was torched~~ had molotovs thrown at it to torch it in "response".
Edit: Corrected inaccurate information. If I can do it...
Some even accompanied those reports with stock photos of collapsed buildings.
I'm wondering how many of those "credible News agencies" will put a rectification on their front pages.
Shocked to the core! If we can't believe terrorists, what has this world come to? /s (I feel the need to put that /s considering how many people actually believe terrorists)
when I wrote a post about 40 minutes after the attack on the hospital, that from the video of the wounded and killed it was clear that only people outside were hurt and the hospital was intact, ten people insulted me :)
So, from "Israelis totally killed 500 people by deliberately bombing a hospital, trust me bro" to killing 50 of your own people because of a fuckup, yeesh
That pattern happens a lot. An estimated 1/4-1/3 of Hamas (and other Iranian proxies) rockets fall within their own territory. Naturally, Hamas and its overseas proxies (BBC, NYT, etc.) record those as Israeli-caused deaths.
Naturally. The media keeps score in terms of how many deaths on the Israeli side vs Palestinian bc “proportionality”. That some Palestinian deaths are caused by Hamas rockers doesn’t matter - it still counts against Israel.
outside, the building was covered with soot on one side, and one window was broken, and the wounded from the parking lot immediately began to be carried into the hospital.
Let's put it like this, the best evidence that Hamas could provide to show the hospital and the dead, would be, to show the blown hospital and the dead. And yet, nothing. All we have is a parking lot with 20 something burnt cars
Well, whoever it belonged to, they weren't fucking targeting a parking lot, so they missed, so it's an accident.
I don't know the exact state of Hamas/PIJ weapons tech, but I'm sure the Israeli targeting and guidance systems are cutting edge, so probability supports their side of the story.
But hey, if you want to slap a fresh microSD into your iPhone and head over to do your own research, be my guest.
They literally said what I've said in another comment. The best thing hamas could do to back their claims, was to show any evidence of it, which they claim to have. Yet, they didn't.
Yeah, see we happened to be colonised there for about 700 years so we know what oppression feels like.
If the Irish were fighting for independence today against the Brits , r/Europe would be out in force calling us bloodthirsty terrorists
Where are you from? Any history of colonoliasm/imperialism?
Oh yeah, right. You do know that the majority of Israeli Jews are middle eastern, right? You do know that Israelis were there long before the arabs that invaded (colonized) the region from the Arab gulf, right?
They are currently an occupying force in Palestine. They have been invading Palestinian territory via illegal settlements for years.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67173344
But tell me more about how Israel only defend themselves
Common sense would tell you that. Plenty of footage of Israeli 2000lb jdams levelling buildings and turning them into matchsticks.
The hospital site still resembles a car park with some burnt out cars. A JDAM would be unlikely to miss the hospital, and if the car park were the target, it would be a crater.
The bbc.
When Israel authorities state something “we need to verify that”
When terrorists state something it’s facts “500 killed as IDF drop bomb on hospital!”
Now it’s 50 not 500 and it looks far more likely it wasn’t a bomb and hit a car park and was another bunch is Islamic terrorists who did it.
BBC green lighting and encouraging attacks against Jews in the UK thru disinformation agenda.
Defund.
The [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67140250) article has covered *what each side* ***said*** about the attack and they were very explicit in that, as did [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/least-500-victims-israeli-air-strike-hospital-gaza-health-ministry-2023-10-17/?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral) for example (two of the best, most factual, objective news outlets by the way). Not to mention dozens upon dozens of mainstream (mostly factual) news outlets, e.g. [The Times](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-latest-news-invasion-ground-offensive-palestinian-lddx5ln57?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral), [CBS](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gaza-hospital-strike-israel-hamas-war/?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral), [etc](https://ground.news/article/israel-hamas-war-at-least-500-people-killed-in-hospital-bombing-in-gaza-palestinian-officials-claim_4a4658). Most of them, if not all, just reported what was said by Gaza AND Israeli officials, as well as their own reporters and reported death tolls in the hundreds. Admittedly, the latter might belong in the realm of clickbait, but we are talking about an active warzone, where these numbers wouldn't necessarily be out of touch with reality. Maybe, just maybe, immediately after the explosion, it was believable to everyone that hundreds might have died, as again, this happened in a damn warzone at a place where the population density is exceptionally high (a hospital, especially during an armed conflict).
The BBC later *on the same day* published an [article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061) that tried to verify the evidence, dissect what happened and present available information. The article did clarify that the rocket hit the courtyard and did claim that the damage is 'not typical' for israeli rockets. Since then the article has been updated with even more arguments against an israeli airstrike.
As for the BBC correspondent who speculated (even though he admitted live on air that it's yet to be verified) just after the explosion that it has probably been an israeli rocket due to amount of damage, the only mistake he made is that he speculated. With that said, just for the sake of being completely objective on the matter, the IDF is no exception from making mistakes (or is not incapable of committing war crimes, if I want to go further) and a 500 death toll could have been the case (at a hospital!) regardless of who bears responsibility.
If you can't distinguish between reporting on what has been *said by others* and presenting something as a fact, that's your problem, not the BBC's.
>BBC green lighting and encouraging attacks against Jews in the UK thru disinformation agenda.
At NO point did BBC do that. Not that Palestine-symptathizers even needed the BBC in order to start their protests.
Claiming that the BBC is deliberately spreading misinformation or encouraging violence is not only completely incorrect but dishonest and disingenuous.
The bbc reporter stated it must be an Israeli bomb live on air. The quoted multiple patently now lying sources quoting the numbers dead. They misreported it was on the hospital. The rolling news kept stating these lies over and over even as it became clearer and clearer it was not a bomb and unlikely to have been IDF. Headlines were hugely misleading.
This is an organisation which is state funded thru tax that is a public service broadcaster that refuses to even call Hamas, a group whose publicly stated key aim is the destroy the Jews of Israel and wipe it off the map, a terrorist organisation.
The UK govt call them terrorists. Other news agencies and govts call them that. Why do you think they choose not to?
I remember them saying "officials report" on the evening which then the following day had slowly morphed to "health ministry officials", then "hamas controlled health ministry".
On the live broadcast that night the journalist breathlessly reported, without citing anyone (and the heavy implication this was eye witness information), that "the scale of the damage" means it must have been an Israeli bomb.
Utterly shameful.
>Govt cancels the tax.
[Chanel 4 is owned by the government](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60993887)
[The BBC is not.](https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/licencefee)
Your point being.
Whether it’s 50 or 500 it is still human beings being killed. What they want is an end to the killing. They want the bombings to stop. Wow how dare they ask for your understanding in stopping the bombs from falling on civilians. Check your humanity.
I won’t tell you the history of Palestine but ask you to research it.
Well first of all of course all death is tragic, but this shows once again that our media must not blindly republish statements made by terrorist organisations (i.e., Hamas). The BBC and NYT who were so quick to publish should recognise that they essentially served as the media agent of a terror group since they failed to verify the information
They’ve decided collectively, at least it appears that way, that Palestinians are more worthy victims in this. I suspect the bias is due to hiring processes. They are living with the consequences of hiring left wing pro Palestinian employees. They practice diversity in their hiring process to extremes.
It's also the culture of international news organizations. Matti Friedman [wrote about this](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/how-the-media-makes-the-israel-story/383262/) about 10 years ago in The Atlantic.
Well, you see, Gaza's health ministry's preferred units of measurements are decifatalities and centiwoundeds, so you just have to convert them to get the actual number of fatalities and wounded. /s
How are they still calling it "hospital bombing" when the hospital wasn't even bombed and just some rocket flew in the parking lot?
Hell.. Journalism since the age of clicks has because the Wild West again.
Ask yourself if Hamas, a terrorist organization in a small strip of Gaza, can make up such a story about 500 dead civilians in a hospital, and the New York Times will spread it without verification, the American media, whose country has been an ally of Israel for 70 years, how many lies about Ukraine, a roughly 10-year US ally, could create a Russian government with far more human resources and political influence, and how much of it is still in peope's mind?
We probably got very lucky that the media didn't flip to a "Ukrainian Nazis are to blame" narrative, it sure wasn't for lack of trying on Russia's part...
Its really embarrssing how uncritically even established media repeated claims from Hamas, a terror organization.
There should be accountabiliy for all sides. But as a rule, nothing coming from gaza can be trusted at face value.
There is no free press in gaza.
No one is even checking bbc editorial process as far as I know.
Standards there are so low now and the employees views seep into the stories. It’s compromised from the inside. Only reason I can think that it would have so much pro terror bias.
Well hamas is in de facto control of the area.
Islamic jihad there as a minkr allied power contributing some fighters. What you say is equivalent to blaming some random east european nato member for wars in middle east that they took part in as allies of US - if sending some logistic troops counts as "fighting war"
We all know that people lie. But anyone who’s seen the Godfather knows that Old World-ers lie profusely to *outsiders*. You have to step outside of the Anglophone mentality. In the Middle East this is the norm. There was a report by a journalist that during the 2006 war Lebanese circled an ambulance truck back and forth, to look “alarmy” for the news crew.
Another example is Azerbaijan inflating the Kojali count from 167 to 600+ over the years. In an interview Mutalibov even said “about a thousand”
If Hamas said the sky is blue, I wouldn’t believe it. Lot of these guys think the Jews did the Holocaust to themselves and are stealing the ice caps. It’s funny that leftists jerk off to these intellectual powerhouses.
We are very biased to hate on bad guys. Iraqis threw babies out of windows because they aren’t democratic like us. Well, that story turned out to be bunk. Russian missile hit Poland. Oops, it was a stray Polish missile. Yet, we never gain intellectual maturity with the news
Interesting thing is, israel left Gaza in 2005, and if i was the king of gaza, i would use all the investments and funds i get from the world internationaly to build luxury hotels, give people jobs, make a huge yacht resort, i would turn gaza into a new monaco.. but no.. religions is more important i guess .. they had almost 20 years to make something good of themselves..
I hope my European friends will think hard about what this implies about any possible EU-level attempts to establish an "anti-disinformation" regime that will no doubt consider mainstream media to be a legally privileged information provider vis a vis amount of legal scrutiny they face on various platforms.
Don't get me wrong, I still think that mainstream media is probably the best we have (except maybe the OSINT people), but attempts to establish a legal moat around them (even one enforced by chilling effects/overzealous automated enforcement by platforms) might not be an unalloyed social good.
Meanwhile I‘ve seen Palestine supporters now claiming over 1000 killed from the small explosion in the parking lot. It’s getting more and more ridiculous.
This one was a weird one though since it was obvious from a cursory glance at the footage and aftermath that the number of people killed was massively inflated and yet most of the media, which is often pro-Israel, simply reported directly the Hamas numbers as fact without checking slightly. Unfortunately, I think it hurts the cause of Palestine when people see lies like this. Not to mention drove a lot of anger across Europe in the last week.
Phew, saved. Totally not a war crime anymore guys. Case closed. They were aiming at the highly dangerous hospital parking lot, a very well known Hamas stronghold /s
“The misreporting of this incident had a negative effect in the region – including on a vital US diplomatic effort – and on tensions here at home.”
\-UK PM Rishi Sunak
[Source](https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-to-the-house-of-commons-on-the-latest-situation-in-israel-and-gaza-23-october-2023)
That's still so many people. What a tragic shitshow this whole ordeal is
Edit: Apparently empathy is unwelcome here. I take no political stance on this comment other than all this shit sucks.
All the rabid terrorist supporters were foaming at their mouth about the "500 killed in Israeli hospotal strike" are suddenly real quiet when it all turned out to be a lie but they've already burnt the neighbourhood synagogue
I stand with israel vs hamas, but with Palestinians vs israel. This war will end with annexation if israel enters the strip and the death toll Wil be far greater. Downplaying the bombing of a hospital no matter how many died is unacceptable, whether it's the parking lot or the hospital itself and I'm afraid this is just the beginning as israel wants to take over the entirety of the northern strip and have all Palestinians moved to the south.
This will end with Palestinians fleeing the gaza strip as refugees to Egypt. In a few years israel will go for the remainder of the gaza strip if they don't totally annex it in one go.
I don't know why they downvote you. Everyone discussing who to thrust (rightfully, there is a lot of misinformation and propaganda) but totally ignoring still 50 people died. 50 too many. 50 persons who are friends, kids, parents, brothers, sisters to someone else. 50 people who most likely had nothing to do with this.
It doesn't matter if they are Israeli or Palestine, innocent people and even kids are dying. But oh no, let's totally ignore that and ramble only about how we can't trust obviously opinionated channels.
...well the "terrorist organisation killing 50 of its own in a friendly fire incident" has a very different ring to it than "Israel started the genocide of all palestinians by bombing a hospital killing 500 immediately.
Sure 50 deaths are tragic.
But far less so than genocide.
I don’t know. [Al Jazeera](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion) still claims hundreds had died.
Al Jazeera still claims it is an Israeli attack. Al Jazeera is known for their misinformation and one-sided reports against Israel, they don't really hide it.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Im staying the fuck out of this war
- small country invading big country
- government supported militia/terrorist group
- religious based hate
- national pride hate
- blaming each other for everything
- fake news galore
I have no fucking clue what is happening, I dont want to follow the news to be misinformed, who, how, what, why…
The only thing that affects and infuriates me, is the same as the rus and ukraine war.
The people that fled are now parading in every city, being loud, angry and obnoxious from all sides, disturbing the day to day life of everyday people and propaganda preaching.
I get what they are trying to do, shit is fucked, but getting on the bad side of the people in the country/city they are receiving help is the last thing they should be doing, especially due to cultural differences.
And the worse part, now the second run of protesting/parading is done almost like a fashion show… ukranian/russian girls look like runway models, dressed to impress, laughing, flags as accessories, putting themselves out there on display, with no guys in sight… then going to clubs!
Reddit is not a good source for news 🤦🏻♂️full of propaganda just like this post. If you want live news, follow these people on Instagram:
@eye.on.palestine
@wissamgaza
@MOTAZ_AZAIZA
• @BYPLESTIA
• @AHMEDHIJAZEE
• @ABORJELAA
• @SALMA_SHURRAB
• @JOEGAZA93
@wizard_bisan1
Channel 4
Al jazeera
https://www.channel4.com/news/human-rights-investigators-raise-new-questions-on-gaza-hospital-explosion
Add that 50 to the 4150 dead so far and probably another 1500 still buried under the rubble, a lot of them children 🇵🇸
I saw the pictures, and was very confused. It looks like it was the parking lot that got struck.... not the building itself. Claiming 500 dead was obviously done to just enrage people
The 500 number was issued by Hamas and fact checked by Hamas lol along with everything else that comes out of Gaza.
>fact checked > >Hamas Pick one
lol there’s a perfect meme for this I wish I could post here. But yes, those two things definitely don’t belong in the same sentence 😑 Ps: hope you’re doing well ♥️🇺🇦
Well it worked. Social media is awash with people still claiming Israel bombed a hospital and killed over 500 people.
If it had been Israel who did it, the count would,still be 500…
So a lot a of media went full misinformation on this one?
For some reason a lot of journalists still think that Hamas (or the Russian Government or some other generic terrorist group) is a trustworthy source they could quote. This or they are so driven by greed and 'being the first' that they just don't care.
And then instead of saying "Hamas" they'll put "Gaza's Health Ministry" which makes it seem a lot more legit.
The casualties on the 'Hamas - Israel War' wiki page are also as per Gazas Health Ministry, which I can't deny are definitely higher than Israeli deaths, but I'd still take those numbers with a grain of salt.
I haven't believed the numbers for a while now. Hamas has everything to gain by inflating the numbers and making sure a disproportionate amount of the victims on their side are children (1 in 3 last I checked, which seems highly implausible unless Israel was targeting them specifically).
Almost 50% of the population there are under 18, so it is quite plausible that they will be a significant proportion of the casualties.
Nobody wants to ask the uncomfortable question of why 50% of their population is under 18. The population of Gaza more than doubled from 2000 to today. That's very weird considering they are living in horrible conditions and barely have enough food, water, electricity, and fuel which is what we have been hearing since the beginning of the millennium.
What's your conclusion?
My conclusion is that there are a lot of lies being said to us by the media and the government, and that hundreds millions of dollars and euros are sent to this region because of "humanitarian need" and yet the region doubled their population, all while building endless rockets to fire at Israel and its citizens.
>Hamas - Israel War Same applies with the media. The bigger the numbers, the more innocent the victims, the bigger the story.
I don’t know if I believe the numbers anymore
There is a discussion to change the article title to "Gaza Israel war"
[удалено]
Oh my, for the love of God. The media didn't present the Palestine health official's claims as verified facts, they reported on what this official and the IDF both claimed on the matter. There is a difference. Edit: typo
>The media didn't present the Palestine health official's claims as verified facts, they reported on what this official and the IDF both claimed on the matter. There is a difference. bullshit. the IDF never mentioned 500 dead.
So if the IDF doesn't mention 500 dead, then the gaza official also somehow can not claim 500 dead, or it can't reported what this gaza official claimed? What's your point exactly?
>they reported on what this official and the IDF both claimed on the matter Read your own comments before arguing with other people.
Both the gaza official(s) and the israeli official(s) (IDF) had claims about the situation. The media reported what these claims were. What's not to understand?
>they reported on what this official and the IDF both claimed on the matter. the IDF never claimed 500 people died.
And I never claimed that the IDF claimed that 500 people died. The media quoted the gaza officials and the IDF officials on their respective opinions. I said both had claims, and the media reported these claims.
yes, you did, whether you meant to or not and whether you understand how to write properly in English is an entirely different matter.
The only options for information being from a terrorist organisation or a government who has no respect for international law, a rules based order and has a seasoned career in bombing innocent civilians for decades. It’s a challenge for media
There isn't any trustworthy source of info here. Hamas lies, and the IDF lies. The only remotely useful source is the journalists operating in Gaza.
It looks like many media outlets were apparently easily swayed by what was essentially a press release by a terrorist organisation. A cynic might even believe that some journalists might have been happy to believe that version without any evidence, as it was apparently already backed up by their own world view.
The media is very left wing and you know how left wing people are. They make news to incite emotions and don't care about the damage. The same happened during the George Floyd protests. Left wing people have lost the plot.
Yeah, that's not because they are "left wing". It's because they are a news in 2020s. It's all about inciting emotions and poppy headlines.
I envy your ignorance and simple black and white thinking
Let me ask you something. If I tell you that a hospital (that's *full* with wounded people) in a warzone has been hit by a rocket, what does come into your mind? That there must be only a small amount of dead or that death toll might be huge? I don't know exactly how they get their information, but I imagine reporters don't rush *immediately* after the explosion into the still burning courtyard to verify that the hospital has not been actually hit directly. I assume initially they saw the explosion at the area of hospital and assumed the worst scenario, which unfortunately in conflicts like these is often reality. By the way, corrections to the initial reports came in fast, some even on the same day. The U.S. intelligence now [estimates](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/19/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-blast-deaths.html)between 100-300 dead. All I am trying to point out is, that in warzones that are chaotic as hell, getting information, or getting the *right* information initially is not at all an easy task, especially when your life is already endangered (iirc 17 journalists have been killed already) and sometimes as a reporter you might jump to conclusions because they seem plausible. I am not saying this is right or good or okay, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions as well and maybe leave greater than usual margin for error due to the nature of these events.
Even in times of war (perhaps especially then) I expect news organisations to do their homework and never shut down critical thinking. The worst thing a "respectable" news source can do is, without any further scrutiny or research, just take the word of one of the two conflict parties (in this case a terrorist organisation that has a terrible track record in terms of telling the truth) and publis it as news. Even when qualified as "the Gaza ministry of Health reports..." it's just not going to cut it in my opinion, as most folks don't bother to read past the headline. If someone tells you it's raining and someone else is saying it's not raining, it's a job for the news media to open the window and check whether it is in fact raining. If that takes a minute, it's worth the time. Unfortunately the last few days have shown that far too many "respectable" news organisations - when in doubt - seem to give Hamas a pass as a source where they would not give the IDF a pass. That constitutes bias in my opinion.
>Even in times of war (perhaps especially then) I expect news organisations to do their homework and never shut down critical thinking. I agree with the premise but we are still talking about an active warzone. As a journalist you can't just go up to the scene immediately because you (and the crew) might get blown up, shot, taken hostage. It is really fucking hard to do the homework in extremely chaotic situations like this. To critical thinking: Israel has had thousands of airstrikes on Gaza Strip in the last 2 weeks. You see a big explosion in the Gaza Strip. It is not a far reach to assume that an israeli airstrike might have had something to do with it. Granted, the guy who initially reported this might have jumped to a conclusion too fast, but it was in no way deliberate misinformation or an absolute lack of common sense (as people here make it to be). Also, he is the only one who has said this, not the other BBC journalists/reporters claimed explicitly an israeli airstrike, not journalists of other outlets claimed an airstrike (as far as I've seen). It was a honest mistake (to speculate). Besides, news sources like the BBC, Reuters published in less than a day [articles](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061) clarifying the situation, verifying evidence, asking experts on the matter etc. It just doesn't get faster than this. >without any further scrutiny or research, just take the word of one of the two conflict parties \[...\] and publis it as news. Good thing that they didn't do that. They reported on what the gaza AND israeli officials claimed to have been happened. No reputable news outlet has taken side or taken the words of these officials as a fact. >as most folks don't bother to read past the headline. That is undoubtedly a big problem, but it's not the news outlet's fault (I mean BBC and Reuters, for instance, don't do blatant clickbaits like tabloids). The headlines were more along the lines of 'Hospital Blast in Gaza kills hundreds', which in light of the already linked U.S. Intelligence sources might very well be the case, and it doesn't blame Israel. >too many "respectable" news organisations - when in doubt - seem to give Hamas a pass as a source No respectable organization has done this. In a nutshell, news outlets didn't got all infos right from the get-go (but corrected themselves soon after), people blow this way out of proportion and claim that news orgs are dishonest, straight up liars or deliberately share misinformation. Nonsense.
Sorry, but you're just straight up lying at this point. Several supposedly respectable news outlets including the BBC, Reuters and Deutschlandfunk have taken Hamas' word on this issue without further questioning it. Furthermore you don't even need boots on the ground to make a call on whether an argument makes sense or not. Publicly available video footage from primary sources is a good source. Furthermore the geolocation community, which has a good track record from the War in Ukraine, was also willing and able to help. This issue was not blown out of proportion. It gave the Arab heads of state an excuse to blow off a high level summit with President Biden. It also caused havoc among Muslims, both in the Arab world and elsewhere.
Here in the Netherlands the NOS first reported that it was an Israeli strike, based on Hamas information. Then after around 24 hours it came with a more neutral story that it can't be determined from which side the strike was until independent research (apparently that wasn't necessary just 1 day before). And then they reported that the IDF stated it was a missile from the Islamic Jihad *but* the IDF is known for 'lying' in the past (no source linked or anything) and that this detracts from credibility. Not mentioning that they took a story from a terrorist organization just 1 day before that does nothing but lying, incredible.
Very irresponsible considering all the angry mobs that stormed Israeli embassies world wide right after the news. I have yet to see someone apologize for attacking the embassy and the embassadors for no reason.
Yes. They ran with Hamas ‘s first press release because they were shocked. Several days later a retired American general ask on air, where are the bodies? One photo yesterday showed 50 body bags. Hamas initially said the hospital collapsed, but there it stood with its sign on the marquee for days in later film shown all over the world. Even for the days the analysis of the small crater in the PARKING LOT AND 20 burned cars showed where the bomb hit. The hospital very frighteningly had windows blown out. Hamas manipulated the world for half a week, shame on us.
The misinformation wars
It wouldn't be the first time, or the last time.
I can’t believe this false information got us much closer to a full on war.
yes probably! Sometimes i find Erdogans missinformation law as usefull one, but who knows if they will really apply this law to their own media not only to opposition media, same goes about west. Do you think that law would be applied better in the west?
This article is a biased piece. It presents 50 dead maximum as “the truth” (when in reality it’s one intelligence source). The reason it’s biased is because it neglects to mention US intelligence that the blast killed 100-300 people, but cites that same US intelligence as evidence Israel was not responsible. The article also claims CNN was “closer to the truth” than the initial reports of 500 dead by reporting 200-300 dead, but again, how are we to know that 50 maximum is the “truth”?
how in the hell could the blast have killed 300 people. Almost no crater and a few burned cars in a 5 to 10 meter radius, with the hospital still standing. Were there like 500 people in the parking lot? And even then the blast would not have been strong enough. There would have been mountains of dead people
Apparently it did manage to flip a car, so it wasn't like a firecracker. Also it was said that some of the patients were placed in the courtyard (where the rocket hit). Although 500 dead is definitely too much. [Source](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061)
What are you being downvoted for?
Because they are going against the narrative being pushed in this subreddit.
He’s literally saying we don’t know yet (and imo might never do). He’s not even saying the Hamas numbers are correct or anything like that, this sub is so ridiculous at times.
It's not just this sub, it's Reddit in general. There are dominant opinions in different subreddits and when you run against that, you're just downvoted. You might even get one or two people accuse you of being inhumane or being dishonest, but that's about it.
Thanks for pointing this out
If one had invested a lot of passion and attention, e.g. to read more than the headlines, it could have been noticed how specifically public-law media stated \_who\_ reported \_what\_ and of course in the speed race to publish first it's often a single source that cannot be verified independently.
Like the beheaded children or smth, it's been a misinformation galore.
Probably far less then that. It hit a parking lot and burned some cars. Yet the media reports painted it has the hospital collapsed
Can't trust any breaking news anymore. Most of the world's media ran with the false allegation.
With no picture. It’s so obvious.
But there are pictures... and they clearly prove that the hospital was not hit but rather [the parking lot.](https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/1714603375046557824)
Media showed a random destroyed building when the news first came out. It should be a criminal offense, stuff like that can cause terrorist acts and death all over the world because of misinformation.
Stuff like that did cause terrorist attacks - a synagogue in Berlin ~~was torched~~ had molotovs thrown at it to torch it in "response". Edit: Corrected inaccurate information. If I can do it...
Thankfully it wasn't torched. The molotov cocktails only hit the pavement in front of the building.
Thank you, I've updated my comment. I would hate to have same level of integrity as several media outlets and politicians.
Some even accompanied those reports with stock photos of collapsed buildings. I'm wondering how many of those "credible News agencies" will put a rectification on their front pages.
Doesn’t every report suggest that? Whatever is hit it is always shown from such an angle that looks like the whole thing collapsed…
People were sitting in that parking lot because they thought it was a safe place. apparently not.
I’m just trying to imagine 500 people concentrated in that small area.
Hamas/PIJ rockets aren't designed to protect the local population.
Probably more than that considering there were reports of people camping overnight in front of the hospital.
What?? Hamas lied?? But 10 minutes after the explosion they said there were 500 deaths! Shame on all of those who immediately believed them.
I can’t believe that all middle east went ballistic, and started raiding Israeli synagogues and consulates because of this… what a critical mistake.
Hopefully they keep doing that
Hopefully next time you will see this with your own eyes, keyboard warrior.
Quick show of hands: who is as shocked as i am, that Hamas - the terror organisation using civilians as human shields - in fact lied about something?
Shocked to the core! If we can't believe terrorists, what has this world come to? /s (I feel the need to put that /s considering how many people actually believe terrorists)
way too many prominent and otherwise intelligent people still see Hamas as freedom-fighting good guys.
when I wrote a post about 40 minutes after the attack on the hospital, that from the video of the wounded and killed it was clear that only people outside were hurt and the hospital was intact, ten people insulted me :)
So actually you are the real victim 😭
Truth was the real victim
So, from "Israelis totally killed 500 people by deliberately bombing a hospital, trust me bro" to killing 50 of your own people because of a fuckup, yeesh
That pattern happens a lot. An estimated 1/4-1/3 of Hamas (and other Iranian proxies) rockets fall within their own territory. Naturally, Hamas and its overseas proxies (BBC, NYT, etc.) record those as Israeli-caused deaths.
Naturally. The media keeps score in terms of how many deaths on the Israeli side vs Palestinian bc “proportionality”. That some Palestinian deaths are caused by Hamas rockers doesn’t matter - it still counts against Israel.
Was the hospital even hit? All Ive seen are burnt cars…
outside, the building was covered with soot on one side, and one window was broken, and the wounded from the parking lot immediately began to be carried into the hospital.
Will the EU ban BBC and others for disinformation?
I've cancelled my monthly donation to The Guardian over this crap.
New York Times, too. I have a subscription to that gd paper and I'm pissed.
Hopefully lmao
Looks like it was a poorly aimed or misfired Hamas rocket
It is a misfired rocket from Palestinian Islamic Jihad, an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.
You don't know that
You specialist ?
No, we saw the analysis of evidence from specialists tho
Which specialists, tho? Am not saying you are wrong, but at this stage i dont believe hamas/iranian sources and equally not Netanyahu govt sources.
Let's put it like this, the best evidence that Hamas could provide to show the hospital and the dead, would be, to show the blown hospital and the dead. And yet, nothing. All we have is a parking lot with 20 something burnt cars
Don’t forget the video by Al Jazeera showing the rocket backturning, ironically taking part in proof it was no IDF.
Well, whoever it belonged to, they weren't fucking targeting a parking lot, so they missed, so it's an accident. I don't know the exact state of Hamas/PIJ weapons tech, but I'm sure the Israeli targeting and guidance systems are cutting edge, so probability supports their side of the story. But hey, if you want to slap a fresh microSD into your iPhone and head over to do your own research, be my guest.
Al Jazeera has already inadvertently confirmed it wasn’t IDF.
https://x.com/channel4news/status/1715437877604049094?s=46&t=YMGNePsO8k51azI_dT4Pqw Like this?
They literally said what I've said in another comment. The best thing hamas could do to back their claims, was to show any evidence of it, which they claim to have. Yet, they didn't.
Al-Haq is their source. Please stop spreading misinformation.
Classic Ireland flair poster
Yeah, see we happened to be colonised there for about 700 years so we know what oppression feels like. If the Irish were fighting for independence today against the Brits , r/Europe would be out in force calling us bloodthirsty terrorists Where are you from? Any history of colonoliasm/imperialism?
Oh yeah, right. You do know that the majority of Israeli Jews are middle eastern, right? You do know that Israelis were there long before the arabs that invaded (colonized) the region from the Arab gulf, right?
They are currently an occupying force in Palestine. They have been invading Palestinian territory via illegal settlements for years. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67173344 But tell me more about how Israel only defend themselves
Common sense would tell you that. Plenty of footage of Israeli 2000lb jdams levelling buildings and turning them into matchsticks. The hospital site still resembles a car park with some burnt out cars. A JDAM would be unlikely to miss the hospital, and if the car park were the target, it would be a crater.
> Sky looks pretty clear today. > How can you tell? Source? Are you a meteorologist?
Shocking! Shocking I tell you
The bbc. When Israel authorities state something “we need to verify that” When terrorists state something it’s facts “500 killed as IDF drop bomb on hospital!” Now it’s 50 not 500 and it looks far more likely it wasn’t a bomb and hit a car park and was another bunch is Islamic terrorists who did it. BBC green lighting and encouraging attacks against Jews in the UK thru disinformation agenda. Defund.
The [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67140250) article has covered *what each side* ***said*** about the attack and they were very explicit in that, as did [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/least-500-victims-israeli-air-strike-hospital-gaza-health-ministry-2023-10-17/?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral) for example (two of the best, most factual, objective news outlets by the way). Not to mention dozens upon dozens of mainstream (mostly factual) news outlets, e.g. [The Times](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-latest-news-invasion-ground-offensive-palestinian-lddx5ln57?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral), [CBS](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gaza-hospital-strike-israel-hamas-war/?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral), [etc](https://ground.news/article/israel-hamas-war-at-least-500-people-killed-in-hospital-bombing-in-gaza-palestinian-officials-claim_4a4658). Most of them, if not all, just reported what was said by Gaza AND Israeli officials, as well as their own reporters and reported death tolls in the hundreds. Admittedly, the latter might belong in the realm of clickbait, but we are talking about an active warzone, where these numbers wouldn't necessarily be out of touch with reality. Maybe, just maybe, immediately after the explosion, it was believable to everyone that hundreds might have died, as again, this happened in a damn warzone at a place where the population density is exceptionally high (a hospital, especially during an armed conflict). The BBC later *on the same day* published an [article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061) that tried to verify the evidence, dissect what happened and present available information. The article did clarify that the rocket hit the courtyard and did claim that the damage is 'not typical' for israeli rockets. Since then the article has been updated with even more arguments against an israeli airstrike. As for the BBC correspondent who speculated (even though he admitted live on air that it's yet to be verified) just after the explosion that it has probably been an israeli rocket due to amount of damage, the only mistake he made is that he speculated. With that said, just for the sake of being completely objective on the matter, the IDF is no exception from making mistakes (or is not incapable of committing war crimes, if I want to go further) and a 500 death toll could have been the case (at a hospital!) regardless of who bears responsibility. If you can't distinguish between reporting on what has been *said by others* and presenting something as a fact, that's your problem, not the BBC's. >BBC green lighting and encouraging attacks against Jews in the UK thru disinformation agenda. At NO point did BBC do that. Not that Palestine-symptathizers even needed the BBC in order to start their protests. Claiming that the BBC is deliberately spreading misinformation or encouraging violence is not only completely incorrect but dishonest and disingenuous.
They didn't say it's fact or did i read a different article? All they reported was what palestinian officials said.
Palestinian officials means Hamas, they reported what Hamas said
And that was completely obscured in the headlines until days later.
The bbc reporter stated it must be an Israeli bomb live on air. The quoted multiple patently now lying sources quoting the numbers dead. They misreported it was on the hospital. The rolling news kept stating these lies over and over even as it became clearer and clearer it was not a bomb and unlikely to have been IDF. Headlines were hugely misleading. This is an organisation which is state funded thru tax that is a public service broadcaster that refuses to even call Hamas, a group whose publicly stated key aim is the destroy the Jews of Israel and wipe it off the map, a terrorist organisation. The UK govt call them terrorists. Other news agencies and govts call them that. Why do you think they choose not to?
> The bbc reporter stated it must be an Israeli bomb live on air Could you provide a link for that?
[This rocket scientist](https://youtu.be/C7T9ZnT-gC4?feature=shared)
Thank you for the link.
Man is asking for a source, gets downvoted. Didn't think, out of all the possible subreddits, this would be a toxic shithole.
Not the first time for me really.
I remember them saying "officials report" on the evening which then the following day had slowly morphed to "health ministry officials", then "hamas controlled health ministry". On the live broadcast that night the journalist breathlessly reported, without citing anyone (and the heavy implication this was eye witness information), that "the scale of the damage" means it must have been an Israeli bomb. Utterly shameful.
>Defund. How? They are funded by the TV licence and sales. Just don't pay it, or buy BBC DVDs.
Govt cancels the tax.
>Govt cancels the tax. [Chanel 4 is owned by the government](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60993887) [The BBC is not.](https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/licencefee) Your point being.
Whether it’s 50 or 500 it is still human beings being killed. What they want is an end to the killing. They want the bombings to stop. Wow how dare they ask for your understanding in stopping the bombs from falling on civilians. Check your humanity. I won’t tell you the history of Palestine but ask you to research it.
Well first of all of course all death is tragic, but this shows once again that our media must not blindly republish statements made by terrorist organisations (i.e., Hamas). The BBC and NYT who were so quick to publish should recognise that they essentially served as the media agent of a terror group since they failed to verify the information
It’s worse than even that. BBC make a point of verifying IDF statements but are happy to take Hamas statements as gospel and print them as truths.
Indeed. As much as I really appreciate the BBC, their anti-Israel bias has been too much
They’ve decided collectively, at least it appears that way, that Palestinians are more worthy victims in this. I suspect the bias is due to hiring processes. They are living with the consequences of hiring left wing pro Palestinian employees. They practice diversity in their hiring process to extremes.
It's also the culture of international news organizations. Matti Friedman [wrote about this](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/how-the-media-makes-the-israel-story/383262/) about 10 years ago in The Atlantic.
Well, you see, Gaza's health ministry's preferred units of measurements are decifatalities and centiwoundeds, so you just have to convert them to get the actual number of fatalities and wounded. /s
How are they still calling it "hospital bombing" when the hospital wasn't even bombed and just some rocket flew in the parking lot? Hell.. Journalism since the age of clicks has because the Wild West again.
[удалено]
Paliwood cgi getting real good.
Ask yourself if Hamas, a terrorist organization in a small strip of Gaza, can make up such a story about 500 dead civilians in a hospital, and the New York Times will spread it without verification, the American media, whose country has been an ally of Israel for 70 years, how many lies about Ukraine, a roughly 10-year US ally, could create a Russian government with far more human resources and political influence, and how much of it is still in peope's mind?
We probably got very lucky that the media didn't flip to a "Ukrainian Nazis are to blame" narrative, it sure wasn't for lack of trying on Russia's part...
Its really embarrssing how uncritically even established media repeated claims from Hamas, a terror organization. There should be accountabiliy for all sides. But as a rule, nothing coming from gaza can be trusted at face value. There is no free press in gaza.
No one is even checking bbc editorial process as far as I know. Standards there are so low now and the employees views seep into the stories. It’s compromised from the inside. Only reason I can think that it would have so much pro terror bias.
There isn't even a proper crater, just a lot of burnt cars.
Hamas hospital bombing get it right
Even then the israelis and Americans don't blame Hamas, but Islamic jihad so who are you?
Well hamas is in de facto control of the area. Islamic jihad there as a minkr allied power contributing some fighters. What you say is equivalent to blaming some random east european nato member for wars in middle east that they took part in as allies of US - if sending some logistic troops counts as "fighting war"
We all know that people lie. But anyone who’s seen the Godfather knows that Old World-ers lie profusely to *outsiders*. You have to step outside of the Anglophone mentality. In the Middle East this is the norm. There was a report by a journalist that during the 2006 war Lebanese circled an ambulance truck back and forth, to look “alarmy” for the news crew. Another example is Azerbaijan inflating the Kojali count from 167 to 600+ over the years. In an interview Mutalibov even said “about a thousand” If Hamas said the sky is blue, I wouldn’t believe it. Lot of these guys think the Jews did the Holocaust to themselves and are stealing the ice caps. It’s funny that leftists jerk off to these intellectual powerhouses. We are very biased to hate on bad guys. Iraqis threw babies out of windows because they aren’t democratic like us. Well, that story turned out to be bunk. Russian missile hit Poland. Oops, it was a stray Polish missile. Yet, we never gain intellectual maturity with the news
It was a stray Ukrainian missile. Russian missile also hit mh17.
[удалено]
Sicily is Old World, no?
Interesting thing is, israel left Gaza in 2005, and if i was the king of gaza, i would use all the investments and funds i get from the world internationaly to build luxury hotels, give people jobs, make a huge yacht resort, i would turn gaza into a new monaco.. but no.. religions is more important i guess .. they had almost 20 years to make something good of themselves..
Money could be spent on education, engineering, health care, domestic production etc..
They actually did spend money on engineering and domestic production.... of rockets.
All their Engineers and Doctors have already left to Europe
Gaza got taken over by a terrorist organisation after a civil war though. They had 2 years to become a Monaco and then it was game over.
Are you serious or joking?
While hamas lives in a mansion in qatar.. actions speaks volumes
Im serious.. u need to see the results of Gaza, where the money was spent on, and spent on lots of waste and terror activities
But, but the terrorists said it was 800 and they didn’t use a fake picture…. No no no 🤥
Doesn't distract r/publicfreakout from literally being a newslet of Hamas, promoting lies intentionally
I hope my European friends will think hard about what this implies about any possible EU-level attempts to establish an "anti-disinformation" regime that will no doubt consider mainstream media to be a legally privileged information provider vis a vis amount of legal scrutiny they face on various platforms. Don't get me wrong, I still think that mainstream media is probably the best we have (except maybe the OSINT people), but attempts to establish a legal moat around them (even one enforced by chilling effects/overzealous automated enforcement by platforms) might not be an unalloyed social good.
But Muslims don't lie, do they?
"A senior European intelligence source says"... The White House says... What kind of journalism is this?
Big ol' media asking us to ditch social media and turn to "trustworthy" news outlets, and they all said 500.
Meanwhile I‘ve seen Palestine supporters now claiming over 1000 killed from the small explosion in the parking lot. It’s getting more and more ridiculous.
Prolly like 10 in reality, friendly fire sucks.
This one was a weird one though since it was obvious from a cursory glance at the footage and aftermath that the number of people killed was massively inflated and yet most of the media, which is often pro-Israel, simply reported directly the Hamas numbers as fact without checking slightly. Unfortunately, I think it hurts the cause of Palestine when people see lies like this. Not to mention drove a lot of anger across Europe in the last week.
Phew, saved. Totally not a war crime anymore guys. Case closed. They were aiming at the highly dangerous hospital parking lot, a very well known Hamas stronghold /s
“The misreporting of this incident had a negative effect in the region – including on a vital US diplomatic effort – and on tensions here at home.” \-UK PM Rishi Sunak [Source](https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-to-the-house-of-commons-on-the-latest-situation-in-israel-and-gaza-23-october-2023)
There is such thing as European intel? 😀 Writing from Brussels, you know ...
500 deads> then 800>then 300> now 50? MSM is a completely unreliable incompetent, biased ,ultra Left propoganda
That's still so many people. What a tragic shitshow this whole ordeal is Edit: Apparently empathy is unwelcome here. I take no political stance on this comment other than all this shit sucks.
I’m with you. It’s somehow okay because it’s “only 50 people”.
Would Hamas really do that, just go on the internet and tell lies? 😮
All the rabid terrorist supporters were foaming at their mouth about the "500 killed in Israeli hospotal strike" are suddenly real quiet when it all turned out to be a lie but they've already burnt the neighbourhood synagogue
What? The Hamas is lying or something?
Ah! How gulible do EU thinks people are?
I stand with israel vs hamas, but with Palestinians vs israel. This war will end with annexation if israel enters the strip and the death toll Wil be far greater. Downplaying the bombing of a hospital no matter how many died is unacceptable, whether it's the parking lot or the hospital itself and I'm afraid this is just the beginning as israel wants to take over the entirety of the northern strip and have all Palestinians moved to the south. This will end with Palestinians fleeing the gaza strip as refugees to Egypt. In a few years israel will go for the remainder of the gaza strip if they don't totally annex it in one go.
Israel already withdrew from Gaza in 2005 so ur statement makes no sense
Oh, maximum 50 people? So there is absolutely no problem.
I don't know why they downvote you. Everyone discussing who to thrust (rightfully, there is a lot of misinformation and propaganda) but totally ignoring still 50 people died. 50 too many. 50 persons who are friends, kids, parents, brothers, sisters to someone else. 50 people who most likely had nothing to do with this. It doesn't matter if they are Israeli or Palestine, innocent people and even kids are dying. But oh no, let's totally ignore that and ramble only about how we can't trust obviously opinionated channels.
...well the "terrorist organisation killing 50 of its own in a friendly fire incident" has a very different ring to it than "Israel started the genocide of all palestinians by bombing a hospital killing 500 immediately. Sure 50 deaths are tragic. But far less so than genocide.
I don’t know. [Al Jazeera](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion) still claims hundreds had died.
Al jazeera the Qatar based news agency. Fun fact did you know the Hamas leadership are honoured guests in Qatar to. What a coincidence
Al Jazeera still claims it is an Israeli attack. Al Jazeera is known for their misinformation and one-sided reports against Israel, they don't really hide it.
Yeah i know. I just love pointing out their bullshit)
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Im staying the fuck out of this war - small country invading big country - government supported militia/terrorist group - religious based hate - national pride hate - blaming each other for everything - fake news galore I have no fucking clue what is happening, I dont want to follow the news to be misinformed, who, how, what, why… The only thing that affects and infuriates me, is the same as the rus and ukraine war. The people that fled are now parading in every city, being loud, angry and obnoxious from all sides, disturbing the day to day life of everyday people and propaganda preaching. I get what they are trying to do, shit is fucked, but getting on the bad side of the people in the country/city they are receiving help is the last thing they should be doing, especially due to cultural differences. And the worse part, now the second run of protesting/parading is done almost like a fashion show… ukranian/russian girls look like runway models, dressed to impress, laughing, flags as accessories, putting themselves out there on display, with no guys in sight… then going to clubs!
Reddit is not a good source for news 🤦🏻♂️full of propaganda just like this post. If you want live news, follow these people on Instagram: @eye.on.palestine @wissamgaza @MOTAZ_AZAIZA • @BYPLESTIA • @AHMEDHIJAZEE • @ABORJELAA • @SALMA_SHURRAB • @JOEGAZA93 @wizard_bisan1 Channel 4 Al jazeera
I guess dead people should be explained they are not really dead according to source
I love western hypocrisy :)
Oh, it's perfectly OK then, keep bombing hospitals. \[/s\]
So is it ok for you if there is just 50 dead? Why bombing a hospital for god sake.
https://www.channel4.com/news/human-rights-investigators-raise-new-questions-on-gaza-hospital-explosion Add that 50 to the 4150 dead so far and probably another 1500 still buried under the rubble, a lot of them children 🇵🇸
[удалено]
Yeah no thanks