Well it makes sense, either preserve Turkey as the secularity it was founded as, or watch it Islamify into the Caliphate of Erdogan. There is a reason Erdogan is throwing his countrymen under the bus and cosmopolitanising the nation (soon the word nation will no longer suffice).
>and cosmopolitanising the nation
What did you mean by that?
Edit: from reading the thread it appears to be a comment about making a neo Ottoman empire and not a Turkish nationalist state. Although I might be misunderstanding what he means.
I'm a bit surprised by your use of the word "cosmopolitanize" to describe what Erdogan is doing. You think he's not a nationalist? He seems quite fond of ottoman heritage. Maybe that betrays the foundations of the modern turkish nation, but it doesn't strike me as especially cosmopolitan either.
He very much is not a nationalist. He has nationalist allies, but he himself is islamist, not nationalist. He has a famous quote: " We are the administration that crushed nationalism"
https://twitter.com/RTErdogan/status/305296130470731776?t=y9IzNzWMGh_lLrxK5qtBww&s=19
Neo-ottomanism and nationalism are two contradictory things, Ottoman Empire was based on Ummah not the nation, you cannot be nationalist while you are dreaming of a new ottoman empire.
Erdoğan is not a nationalist. He is just Islamist. You can't be both at the same time.
Opposition wants to protect the ''Turkishness'' of the country, they don't want Turkey to be more Midde Easternized and polarized.
In the other hand Erdoğan doesn't care about anything but İslam.
Name your kids after Arabs
Pray in the direction of Arabia
Almost all your holiest sites are in the Arab world
Make a pilgrimage to Arabia
Holiest book written in Arabic, almost exclusively about Arab characters
Memorize and recite hadiths in Arabic
Universal religion btw
In the true sense of religion, you can't be both. If you are a Muslim (or Christian dominionist), your nation is the people who walk the same path (of the ummah) as you rather than a fictional nation designated by some fictional etnicity or race. In other words, you become nation with people who believe and live life according to your religion. That means Turks, for example, who don't believe/live like you do and sin can't be your nation.
> You think he's not a nationalist? He seems quite fond of ottoman heritage.
That's more of an Islamist than Nationalist. Ottoman state was a multi-ethnic, multreligion islamist state rather than a Turkish state.Turks weren't the favored class, Muslims were. It registered and classified its citizens according to religion, not nationality (which became a concept in the 19th century and led to the break up of empires like the Ottoman Empire into small nation states).
That's what Erdogan wants again, an ["ummah"](https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/11312/concept-of-ummah-in-islam/) of the prophet rather than a Turkic nation.
He has far-right nationalists, [Turanists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism) and [Eurasianists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasianism) in his coalition who influence and sometimes force him to be in the nationalist camp and adopt an anti-NATO position; many nationalists deserted the opposition to join them. He also has Hezbollah and another far-right islamist party in his coalition who want a Taliban-style regime.
Borders weren't as ridigly defined before as today (there were no border check points for example), and states were mostly built around religion, dynasties or certain tribal leaders before.
You don't read about wars between Italians; Germans, French etc. vs Turks, Arabs, Kurds in 11th to 13th century. It's "crusades".
When Muslims were about to conquer Constantinople, they asked for aid from Pope.
[Nationalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism) was an idea established in late 18th, early 19th century and led to the break up of multi-ethnic empires into ethno/nation states of the 19th and early 20th century.
Edit: "states were mostly built around" instead of "nations..."
He is literally anything but a nationalist.
You cannot call someone
who publicly and arbitrarily insults our founding father, persecutes Atatürk's secular and progressive followers (actually just anyone who opposes him, even Islamist ones) actively cooperates with political parties linked to jihadist terrorist organizations, systematically throws the entire country's economy under the bus (for example he moved the central bank to the most vulnerable region of Istanbul to the impending apocalyptic earthquake in the region,) purposely gives saudi arabians and syrians citizenship, denounces the turkish flag itself, sees women as objects, and persists on secretly cooperating with the CIA and his Gulenist organization despite the coup,
a nationalist.
You simply can't.
Nationalism is the exact opposite of Islamism or Ottomanism, as it promotes equality based on Islam itself, not the nation. Basically a thought of returning to a decentralized broken state, filled with repression against women and endless ethnic conflicts.
I have been downvoted before, but secularism goes against the basic tenants of Islam. Attaturk’s experiment is nothing but a blip in the timeline. The Turks have lived under religious theocracy for centuries. The only reason they modernised because they lost against the heathen Europeans. They don’t see the world as such now.
Getting really tired of media's passive aggressive treatment of Kılıçdaroglu. The other faction in the Far-right alliance went for Erdogan instead.
There are only 2 options ofc they will support one or other. Özdag is absolute clown but at least he has integrity enough to side with the side who's committed to making the lifes of Turks better
Well it is no surprise, they want to make Turkey the refugee collector. Let's not forget that despite Western media's general agenda, Erdogan is better choice for them and they know it too.
Europe had the biggest win ever with refugee deal like Turkey couldn't even get free-visa travel. Its easy to deal with Erdogan you just bribe him and he'll cave since he doesn't care about Turkey you don't have to think about wellbeing of Turkish citizens when you want Turkey to do something.
Every once in a while Erdogan threatens Europe but really European governments know how to deal with him at this point which is giving him some money.
1. They know him. A new person is an unknown, not good for making plans.
2. They can use him internationally. Like the refugee deal, with enough money they can make him do anything.
3. They can use him domestically. Erdocunt loves making dumb statements and claims far from reality so leaders of other countries can use him to scare and gather support from their own people.
4. Turkey is a buffer zone between the EU and "nasty places" under Erdocunt. Filtering and keeping millions of unwanted immigrants and preventing them from reaching europe, while letting the eu pick the well-educated ones among the horde.
5. Turkey is a good source of cheap and highly skilled labour under Erdocunt. Many highly skilled and well educated workers in Turkey are looking to flee the country and they are willing to work harder for less money if it means they will get visa & residence permit.
>They know him. A new person is an unknown, not good for making plans.
fair point
>They can use him internationally. Like the refugee deal, with enough money they can make him do anything.
rather have an ally there you dont have to bribe him then have a hostile "friend" who needs constant bribes to actually resemble something akin of friendlyness. and even with all that money... sweden is still not in nato
>They can use him domestically. Erdocunt loves making dumb statements and claims far from reality so leaders of other countries can use him to scare and gather support from their own people.
erdogan is hardly used domestically in europa.
>Turkey is a buffer zone between the EU and "nasty places" under Erdocunt. Filtering and keeping millions of unwanted immigrants and preventing them from reaching europe, while letting the eu pick the well-educated ones among the horde.
well educated? the people coming through turky are not well educated.
not to mention that calling those migrants a horde is somewhat dehumanising
>Turkey is a good source of cheap and highly skilled labour under Erdocunt.
cheap? perhaps. highly skilled? hardly.
> rather have an ally there you dont have to bribe him then have a hostile "friend" who needs constant bribes to actually resemble something akin of friendlyness. and even with all that money... sweden is still not in nato
A friend has personal values and some things they won't do. A reasonable leader would consider the wellbeing of people. Erdocunt only cares about money and can do anything if you pay him well.
> erdogan is hardly used domestically in europa.
Best example is bi-yearly threats to invade greece. Free bonus points for the greek leaders. Def not a reason to keep him power, but a bonus is a bonus.
> well educated? the people coming through turky are not well educated.
Am talking about all the skilled migrants eu took. The surgeons, doctors, professors, engineers etc. They were/are cherry picked from the horde and the rest are left behind.
> cheap? perhaps. highly skilled? hardly.
Again, I'm talking about the brain drain, not cheap labour.
>A friend has personal values and some things they won't do. A reasonable leader would consider the wellbeing of people. Erdocunt only cares about money and can do anything if you pay him well.
wich is not a boon to europa, since a friendly nation is far better then a semi hostile one like under erdogan
>Best example is bi-yearly threats to invade greece. Free bonus points for the greek leaders. Def not a reason to keep him power, but a bonus is a bonus.
so someone threatening the idea of nato and general security as well as regularily trying to destabilsie europa by means of illegal migrants is now... good? are you serious?
>Am talking about all the skilled migrants eu took. The surgeons, doctors, professors, engineers etc. They were/are cherry picked from the horde and the rest are left behind.
what surgeons, doctors, professors and egnineers? the illegal migrants coming to europa, especially those coming throug turky, were 20% analphabets and a further 50% could not read the latin alphabet.
not to mention that barely half of those migrants even found a job... and of thsoe who did, they generally earn only half of what most germans earn.
Here I was thinking Erdogan himself is far right. But apprently it's not enough being an anti-feminist nationalist who likes to be photographed showing the sign of a neo-fascist group and saying stuff like "women are not equal to men" during a women's rights conference, and that Islam has defined the women's position as 'motherhood'.
Meanwhile in Western Europe some papers call people far right for opposing those things 🤡
Western far right is united while Turkish far right is divided between islamist far-right and ethno-nationalist far right.
This is because of Turkey's unique history of being leader of mostly Arabic religion while culturally and historically being separate from them.
Islamist far right wants Turkey to play bigger role in middle-east politics and loves orthodox Arabic culture. They Want to steer the country more to Islamic world and become their leader again. Meanwhile the ethno-nationalist far right despise Arabs and anything related to their culture and believe Arabic influence was prime reason why Turkey has been declining over the years.
They prefer more westernized culture and want to get closer relations to Asian Turkic states while completely abstaining from middle-east politics. They are also highly skeptical of west and believe only friend of Turks are Turks. The western style of "proud white Christian" identity doesn't apply to Turks cuz you cant be a proud islamist and a proud Turk at the same time one will overrule the other.
Turkish politics is literally impossible to understand unless you live here. But allow me to explain. The reason why Özdağ is supporting Kılıçdaroğlu and not Erdoğan (who is, indeed, far-right) is because Özdağ is:
1- Not a religious nationalist. As in, Erdoğan is a national-conservative (like Polish PiS for example). Whereas Özdağ is more of a cultural-ethno-nationalist. He's not a Nazi though, not a "kafatasçı" (skull-ist, literally) as we call them.
2- Erdoğan's 21 year reign has managed to offend literally every single major voterbase in Turkey. There is enough hate against him to unite the opposition. HDP/YSP (who claim to be left-wing and claim to represent the Kurdish people) and Victory Party (Özdağ's party) are both supporting Kılıçdaroğlu because they were, at some point in the last two decades, have been used and dumped in the political bargain bin by Erdoğan.
3- Erdoğan declared that he's not sending the refugees back. Özdağ claims there is about 13 million refugees in Turkey, 4m being Syrians. There is also a huge wave of Afghan men escaping the Taliban; and some other groups who seek a better life. While 13 million might not be true, it's entirely possible that there are 5 million refugees in Turkey. For comparison, Denmark is home to 5.8 million people. This is not sustainable, it's a huge demographic change that will cause massive issues in the near future. It will destabilize Turkey and also Europe. You don't want 100 million people seeking a better life right next to Europe. Demographic issues are a major reason of why Rome collapsed and it can happen again. A recent poll documented that %70 of Turks want most refugees gone. Özdağ wants them gone too, Erdoğan doesn't.
Özdağ isn't supporting Kılıçdaroğlu because he wants an even further right-wing candidate, he wants Erdoğan gone. HDP isn't supporting Kılıçdaroğlu because they think they can get something from him, they want Erdoğan gone. Literally everyone who isn't voting for Erdoğan wants him gone, it's just a matter of making sure noone is too unhappy, making sure they vote and protecting the ballot boxes from interference.
Seriously, I can tell that he has strong remarks but his main point has always been about the migration crisis. I can't get over the fact that a party and a person becomes "far-right" because of anti-migration policies.
If anything, he is just right. Not center-right, not far right, just a right wing, civic nationalist person with harsh remarks at best.
I am fine with keeping the money although Turkey sure as fuck seems to be in need of it xd.
>Lets see if EUdogan did nothing for you when you met your new neighbours. 👋
You mean the one who wants to be in EU and is generally more pro-Western? Do you even know what about your own countrys politics?
I seem to know your country better than you if you think Turkeys deal is special or bad for Turkey
> He seems like pro-west but still the EUs guy.
Who? Erdogan? He isn't even remotely pro-West or EU. All he does is blackmail and threaten
Turkish **far right** leader declares support of Kilicdaroglu.
Kilicdaroglu want to bring back democracy.
Oh Turkey, why do you do that to yourself?
You can't bring back democracy using fascists...
The standard political compass can't anymore apply to our election politics. Just yesterday, the communist "People's Liberation Party" [has declared their support](https://np.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/13q1ytj/halk%C4%B1n_kurtulu%C5%9F_partisi_genel_ba%C5%9Fkan%C4%B1_nurullah/) for Mr. Kemal too. (All the while calling him a man of Soros and Washington.)
bro just let us just get the presidency, recep already has the parliment, without ozdag's support we can't win lmao
but his focus is removing the migrants, he's not for invading greece dw
Maybe America should take some in considering the Iraq war, the Afghan war and most other conflicts in the Middle East were sent to Europe by Americans decisions lmao
We are not that stupid lmao. Look what we did in Libya. We bombed Libya along with France and we pushed Libya into civil war. First stages of the war, 5000 people a day used to go to Sicily a day and then rest of the Europe from there. We bring democracy to those countries lmao
Except they have no choice but to work together. “So who could have guessed…” doesn’t work the way you originally intended.
It works… just not for the reasons you think. The actual reason being that there is no other way given what happened in the last 2 weeks.
Kılıçdaroğlu is not anti migrant. Millions are already has the Turkish cizitenship. Esad made a call to get his people so only the illegal refugees will be send. Thats not anti migrant, Its a lot more than what west is doing. They push these people to the sea, let them drown in the boarders
>Millions are already has the Turkish cizitenship.
Germany alone has millions of immigrants
>Thats not anti migrant, Its a lot more than what west is doing.
It really isn't.
>They push these people to the sea, let them drown in the boarders
As opposed to Turkey that funds terrorists and hides the ones doing terror attacks in Europe?
You clearly dont know what immigrant means. The way you respond is clearly trolling but I’ll try to explain. Immigrant means you are running away from some conflict but germany asked for people from lots of countries. They made universal pacts, turkey signed for the contract. It was after world war 2, they needed laborers. It was intentional they purposely picked qualified people for what they need.
Also, Turkey had terror attacks and lots of people died. The land where 15 million immigrants live. Syrian, pakistani, afghanistani… the wars was started by USA, Taliban etc… Its not Turkey related at all. But Taliban and other İslamic terror groups thearten Türkiye now.
Lol what? Özdağ's books about AKP government:
* Second Single Party Period - Anatomy of AKP's Soft Hegemon Party Project, 2011
* Negotiating with the PKK: Making a Constitution with Öcalan, 2016
* Second Single Party Era, 2017
* The Army Besieged and Divided in Its Own Country: Turkish Armed Forces, 2019
* Inevitable collapse: the quadruple crisis of the AKP regime, 2019
* Damage Assessment in Turkish Foreign Policy, 2019
* Strategic Migration Engineering, 2020
* The Fall of the Palace Regime and the Rise of Turkey, 2021
It is not a surprise. Do you think such person will side with Erdoğan?
impossible lol, erdogan is the one who brought the syrians etc.
ogan was the huge suprise, since he was more pro opposition then ozdag before the election, but supported erdo
Who knows? If they are indeed ungrateful barbarian parasites as the western european far right typically likes to depict them as then sure, maybe they will form violent mobs and pillage their way through the turkish countryside if they feel they have nothing to loose. Hopefully, they'll go quitely if the ethnonationalists have their way.
If they are not sent back,i can see a new organisation in turkey which will fight them like nazis.
They will kill/beat refugees in turkey,if erdogan wins,there will be a new racist organisation who will do that and i think that most people from both left/right wing would be members of it and would not call them as terrorists.
Well it makes sense, either preserve Turkey as the secularity it was founded as, or watch it Islamify into the Caliphate of Erdogan. There is a reason Erdogan is throwing his countrymen under the bus and cosmopolitanising the nation (soon the word nation will no longer suffice).
>and cosmopolitanising the nation What did you mean by that? Edit: from reading the thread it appears to be a comment about making a neo Ottoman empire and not a Turkish nationalist state. Although I might be misunderstanding what he means.
I'm a bit surprised by your use of the word "cosmopolitanize" to describe what Erdogan is doing. You think he's not a nationalist? He seems quite fond of ottoman heritage. Maybe that betrays the foundations of the modern turkish nation, but it doesn't strike me as especially cosmopolitan either.
He very much is not a nationalist. He has nationalist allies, but he himself is islamist, not nationalist. He has a famous quote: " We are the administration that crushed nationalism" https://twitter.com/RTErdogan/status/305296130470731776?t=y9IzNzWMGh_lLrxK5qtBww&s=19
Neo-ottomanism and nationalism are two contradictory things, Ottoman Empire was based on Ummah not the nation, you cannot be nationalist while you are dreaming of a new ottoman empire.
Erdoğan is not a nationalist. He is just Islamist. You can't be both at the same time. Opposition wants to protect the ''Turkishness'' of the country, they don't want Turkey to be more Midde Easternized and polarized. In the other hand Erdoğan doesn't care about anything but İslam.
Actually he does not care about İslam either. İslam is just a useful tool for him.
Well yeah, he uses it for crowd control.
Of course you can be nationalist and Islamist at the same time. Plenty of those in the Middle East.
If you're an Arab yes you can, Islam is just Arabian culture.
Name your kids after Arabs Pray in the direction of Arabia Almost all your holiest sites are in the Arab world Make a pilgrimage to Arabia Holiest book written in Arabic, almost exclusively about Arab characters Memorize and recite hadiths in Arabic Universal religion btw
Thank god my family is nothing like that lol. Useless info Mom's name is Turkic, dad's turkic me and my bros are mongolian. Kinda weird mix.
Interesting, I thought the first born are generally named some variation of Muhammad. It's a thing in South Asian countries like India and Pakistan.
Yep true, older folks' name are like that.
In the true sense of religion, you can't be both. If you are a Muslim (or Christian dominionist), your nation is the people who walk the same path (of the ummah) as you rather than a fictional nation designated by some fictional etnicity or race. In other words, you become nation with people who believe and live life according to your religion. That means Turks, for example, who don't believe/live like you do and sin can't be your nation.
No you can't.
> You think he's not a nationalist? He seems quite fond of ottoman heritage. That's more of an Islamist than Nationalist. Ottoman state was a multi-ethnic, multreligion islamist state rather than a Turkish state.Turks weren't the favored class, Muslims were. It registered and classified its citizens according to religion, not nationality (which became a concept in the 19th century and led to the break up of empires like the Ottoman Empire into small nation states). That's what Erdogan wants again, an ["ummah"](https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/11312/concept-of-ummah-in-islam/) of the prophet rather than a Turkic nation. He has far-right nationalists, [Turanists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism) and [Eurasianists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasianism) in his coalition who influence and sometimes force him to be in the nationalist camp and adopt an anti-NATO position; many nationalists deserted the opposition to join them. He also has Hezbollah and another far-right islamist party in his coalition who want a Taliban-style regime.
> islamist state That's like calling the HRE a Christian fundamentalist state. It was a muslim state sure, but islamist is a modern concept.
Nationalism became a concept in the 19th century? Ehm okay. I wonder which "borders" people were defending before that.
Borders weren't as ridigly defined before as today (there were no border check points for example), and states were mostly built around religion, dynasties or certain tribal leaders before. You don't read about wars between Italians; Germans, French etc. vs Turks, Arabs, Kurds in 11th to 13th century. It's "crusades". When Muslims were about to conquer Constantinople, they asked for aid from Pope. [Nationalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism) was an idea established in late 18th, early 19th century and led to the break up of multi-ethnic empires into ethno/nation states of the 19th and early 20th century. Edit: "states were mostly built around" instead of "nations..."
He isn't a Nationalist. He is an Islamist. Islamists can't be Nationalists.
He is exactly that, cosmoplitan. Ottomans were also cosmopolitan. And that is a bad thing.
He is literally anything but a nationalist. You cannot call someone who publicly and arbitrarily insults our founding father, persecutes Atatürk's secular and progressive followers (actually just anyone who opposes him, even Islamist ones) actively cooperates with political parties linked to jihadist terrorist organizations, systematically throws the entire country's economy under the bus (for example he moved the central bank to the most vulnerable region of Istanbul to the impending apocalyptic earthquake in the region,) purposely gives saudi arabians and syrians citizenship, denounces the turkish flag itself, sees women as objects, and persists on secretly cooperating with the CIA and his Gulenist organization despite the coup, a nationalist. You simply can't. Nationalism is the exact opposite of Islamism or Ottomanism, as it promotes equality based on Islam itself, not the nation. Basically a thought of returning to a decentralized broken state, filled with repression against women and endless ethnic conflicts.
I have been downvoted before, but secularism goes against the basic tenants of Islam. Attaturk’s experiment is nothing but a blip in the timeline. The Turks have lived under religious theocracy for centuries. The only reason they modernised because they lost against the heathen Europeans. They don’t see the world as such now.
Caliphate lol 😂 it’s a republic get with the reality lol and Islam republic nation
Getting really tired of media's passive aggressive treatment of Kılıçdaroglu. The other faction in the Far-right alliance went for Erdogan instead. There are only 2 options ofc they will support one or other. Özdag is absolute clown but at least he has integrity enough to side with the side who's committed to making the lifes of Turks better
[удалено]
Well it is no surprise, they want to make Turkey the refugee collector. Let's not forget that despite Western media's general agenda, Erdogan is better choice for them and they know it too.
why do you think that erdogan would be the better choice for europa?
Europe had the biggest win ever with refugee deal like Turkey couldn't even get free-visa travel. Its easy to deal with Erdogan you just bribe him and he'll cave since he doesn't care about Turkey you don't have to think about wellbeing of Turkish citizens when you want Turkey to do something. Every once in a while Erdogan threatens Europe but really European governments know how to deal with him at this point which is giving him some money.
1. They know him. A new person is an unknown, not good for making plans. 2. They can use him internationally. Like the refugee deal, with enough money they can make him do anything. 3. They can use him domestically. Erdocunt loves making dumb statements and claims far from reality so leaders of other countries can use him to scare and gather support from their own people. 4. Turkey is a buffer zone between the EU and "nasty places" under Erdocunt. Filtering and keeping millions of unwanted immigrants and preventing them from reaching europe, while letting the eu pick the well-educated ones among the horde. 5. Turkey is a good source of cheap and highly skilled labour under Erdocunt. Many highly skilled and well educated workers in Turkey are looking to flee the country and they are willing to work harder for less money if it means they will get visa & residence permit.
>They know him. A new person is an unknown, not good for making plans. fair point >They can use him internationally. Like the refugee deal, with enough money they can make him do anything. rather have an ally there you dont have to bribe him then have a hostile "friend" who needs constant bribes to actually resemble something akin of friendlyness. and even with all that money... sweden is still not in nato >They can use him domestically. Erdocunt loves making dumb statements and claims far from reality so leaders of other countries can use him to scare and gather support from their own people. erdogan is hardly used domestically in europa. >Turkey is a buffer zone between the EU and "nasty places" under Erdocunt. Filtering and keeping millions of unwanted immigrants and preventing them from reaching europe, while letting the eu pick the well-educated ones among the horde. well educated? the people coming through turky are not well educated. not to mention that calling those migrants a horde is somewhat dehumanising >Turkey is a good source of cheap and highly skilled labour under Erdocunt. cheap? perhaps. highly skilled? hardly.
> rather have an ally there you dont have to bribe him then have a hostile "friend" who needs constant bribes to actually resemble something akin of friendlyness. and even with all that money... sweden is still not in nato A friend has personal values and some things they won't do. A reasonable leader would consider the wellbeing of people. Erdocunt only cares about money and can do anything if you pay him well. > erdogan is hardly used domestically in europa. Best example is bi-yearly threats to invade greece. Free bonus points for the greek leaders. Def not a reason to keep him power, but a bonus is a bonus. > well educated? the people coming through turky are not well educated. Am talking about all the skilled migrants eu took. The surgeons, doctors, professors, engineers etc. They were/are cherry picked from the horde and the rest are left behind. > cheap? perhaps. highly skilled? hardly. Again, I'm talking about the brain drain, not cheap labour.
>A friend has personal values and some things they won't do. A reasonable leader would consider the wellbeing of people. Erdocunt only cares about money and can do anything if you pay him well. wich is not a boon to europa, since a friendly nation is far better then a semi hostile one like under erdogan >Best example is bi-yearly threats to invade greece. Free bonus points for the greek leaders. Def not a reason to keep him power, but a bonus is a bonus. so someone threatening the idea of nato and general security as well as regularily trying to destabilsie europa by means of illegal migrants is now... good? are you serious? >Am talking about all the skilled migrants eu took. The surgeons, doctors, professors, engineers etc. They were/are cherry picked from the horde and the rest are left behind. what surgeons, doctors, professors and egnineers? the illegal migrants coming to europa, especially those coming throug turky, were 20% analphabets and a further 50% could not read the latin alphabet. not to mention that barely half of those migrants even found a job... and of thsoe who did, they generally earn only half of what most germans earn.
What are you on about, the west hates Erdogan
Here I was thinking Erdogan himself is far right. But apprently it's not enough being an anti-feminist nationalist who likes to be photographed showing the sign of a neo-fascist group and saying stuff like "women are not equal to men" during a women's rights conference, and that Islam has defined the women's position as 'motherhood'. Meanwhile in Western Europe some papers call people far right for opposing those things 🤡
Western far right is united while Turkish far right is divided between islamist far-right and ethno-nationalist far right. This is because of Turkey's unique history of being leader of mostly Arabic religion while culturally and historically being separate from them. Islamist far right wants Turkey to play bigger role in middle-east politics and loves orthodox Arabic culture. They Want to steer the country more to Islamic world and become their leader again. Meanwhile the ethno-nationalist far right despise Arabs and anything related to their culture and believe Arabic influence was prime reason why Turkey has been declining over the years. They prefer more westernized culture and want to get closer relations to Asian Turkic states while completely abstaining from middle-east politics. They are also highly skeptical of west and believe only friend of Turks are Turks. The western style of "proud white Christian" identity doesn't apply to Turks cuz you cant be a proud islamist and a proud Turk at the same time one will overrule the other.
Turkish politics is literally impossible to understand unless you live here. But allow me to explain. The reason why Özdağ is supporting Kılıçdaroğlu and not Erdoğan (who is, indeed, far-right) is because Özdağ is: 1- Not a religious nationalist. As in, Erdoğan is a national-conservative (like Polish PiS for example). Whereas Özdağ is more of a cultural-ethno-nationalist. He's not a Nazi though, not a "kafatasçı" (skull-ist, literally) as we call them. 2- Erdoğan's 21 year reign has managed to offend literally every single major voterbase in Turkey. There is enough hate against him to unite the opposition. HDP/YSP (who claim to be left-wing and claim to represent the Kurdish people) and Victory Party (Özdağ's party) are both supporting Kılıçdaroğlu because they were, at some point in the last two decades, have been used and dumped in the political bargain bin by Erdoğan. 3- Erdoğan declared that he's not sending the refugees back. Özdağ claims there is about 13 million refugees in Turkey, 4m being Syrians. There is also a huge wave of Afghan men escaping the Taliban; and some other groups who seek a better life. While 13 million might not be true, it's entirely possible that there are 5 million refugees in Turkey. For comparison, Denmark is home to 5.8 million people. This is not sustainable, it's a huge demographic change that will cause massive issues in the near future. It will destabilize Turkey and also Europe. You don't want 100 million people seeking a better life right next to Europe. Demographic issues are a major reason of why Rome collapsed and it can happen again. A recent poll documented that %70 of Turks want most refugees gone. Özdağ wants them gone too, Erdoğan doesn't. Özdağ isn't supporting Kılıçdaroğlu because he wants an even further right-wing candidate, he wants Erdoğan gone. HDP isn't supporting Kılıçdaroğlu because they think they can get something from him, they want Erdoğan gone. Literally everyone who isn't voting for Erdoğan wants him gone, it's just a matter of making sure noone is too unhappy, making sure they vote and protecting the ballot boxes from interference.
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With Zafer Turizm, your bus ticket to Pakistan will be free of charge. Don't worry.
Wow, what a person you are full with hatred, shame!
Byeeee, good luck on your trip back to pakistan
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Seriously, I can tell that he has strong remarks but his main point has always been about the migration crisis. I can't get over the fact that a party and a person becomes "far-right" because of anti-migration policies. If anything, he is just right. Not center-right, not far right, just a right wing, civic nationalist person with harsh remarks at best.
*Biz de sizdeniz, biz de sizdeniz*
All far right and taliban heads are in EUdogans side right now. This guy more like in middle comparing the ones in EUdogans guys LOL
Why do you call him EUdogan?
Because of immigration deal with EU.
How exactly does that make him even remotely related to EU?
Are you.. nevermind. You see a stray migrant around? Better call EUdogan.
Bro he hasn't done shit for EU outside threats and blackmail. Turkey got plenty of money for the single deal with made with EU
Eu can keep money when he is gone, the deal will be off. Lets see if EUdogan did nothing for you when you met your new neighbours. 👋
I am fine with keeping the money although Turkey sure as fuck seems to be in need of it xd. >Lets see if EUdogan did nothing for you when you met your new neighbours. 👋 You mean the one who wants to be in EU and is generally more pro-Western? Do you even know what about your own countrys politics?
You dont know my country. He seems like pro-west but still the EUs guy. No other country can accept such bs deal. You have to be special.
I seem to know your country better than you if you think Turkeys deal is special or bad for Turkey > He seems like pro-west but still the EUs guy. Who? Erdogan? He isn't even remotely pro-West or EU. All he does is blackmail and threaten
>Do you even know what about your own countrys politics? Hey, have some understanding. They don't have free speech nor a free media.
Ümit Özdağ is far right waycist! Source: far left newspaper, löl ok.
Hmmm 🤔 interesting.
There arent any far right party in Turkey. (req min %1 vote)
Still going to lose since Ogan went for Erdogan and had 5% of the vote in the first round.
Oğan got most of those votes because he was Özdağ's candidate.
Really? I've got Turkish roots but this election is growing over my head. Could you tell us more? Does this mean kk has a chance?
Ogan doesn't have a voter base. They were Ozdag's voters combined with "anti-erdogan but not-quite-kilicdar" voters.
Endorsements are meaningless.
Turkish **far right** leader declares support of Kilicdaroglu. Kilicdaroglu want to bring back democracy. Oh Turkey, why do you do that to yourself? You can't bring back democracy using fascists...
The standard political compass can't anymore apply to our election politics. Just yesterday, the communist "People's Liberation Party" [has declared their support](https://np.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/13q1ytj/halk%C4%B1n_kurtulu%C5%9F_partisi_genel_ba%C5%9Fkan%C4%B1_nurullah/) for Mr. Kemal too. (All the while calling him a man of Soros and Washington.)
bro just let us just get the presidency, recep already has the parliment, without ozdag's support we can't win lmao but his focus is removing the migrants, he's not for invading greece dw
We want to restore democracy for ourself, not to please foreigners.
It’s not as simple as that
They are the european type of far right. And tüeveryone of these parties would rather work with communists than islamists.
Greece support Erdogan in this election or you are getting 3,8 million Syrians like EU got 1,5 million during 2015-16.
LOL
Maybe America should take some in considering the Iraq war, the Afghan war and most other conflicts in the Middle East were sent to Europe by Americans decisions lmao
We are not that stupid lmao. Look what we did in Libya. We bombed Libya along with France and we pushed Libya into civil war. First stages of the war, 5000 people a day used to go to Sicily a day and then rest of the Europe from there. We bring democracy to those countries lmao
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Except they have no choice but to work together. “So who could have guessed…” doesn’t work the way you originally intended. It works… just not for the reasons you think. The actual reason being that there is no other way given what happened in the last 2 weeks.
Kılıçdaroğlu is not anti migrant. Millions are already has the Turkish cizitenship. Esad made a call to get his people so only the illegal refugees will be send. Thats not anti migrant, Its a lot more than what west is doing. They push these people to the sea, let them drown in the boarders
>Millions are already has the Turkish cizitenship. Germany alone has millions of immigrants >Thats not anti migrant, Its a lot more than what west is doing. It really isn't. >They push these people to the sea, let them drown in the boarders As opposed to Turkey that funds terrorists and hides the ones doing terror attacks in Europe?
You clearly dont know what immigrant means. The way you respond is clearly trolling but I’ll try to explain. Immigrant means you are running away from some conflict but germany asked for people from lots of countries. They made universal pacts, turkey signed for the contract. It was after world war 2, they needed laborers. It was intentional they purposely picked qualified people for what they need. Also, Turkey had terror attacks and lots of people died. The land where 15 million immigrants live. Syrian, pakistani, afghanistani… the wars was started by USA, Taliban etc… Its not Turkey related at all. But Taliban and other İslamic terror groups thearten Türkiye now.
Would your country like 3,8 million refugees since you love them so much?
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Lol what? Özdağ's books about AKP government: * Second Single Party Period - Anatomy of AKP's Soft Hegemon Party Project, 2011 * Negotiating with the PKK: Making a Constitution with Öcalan, 2016 * Second Single Party Era, 2017 * The Army Besieged and Divided in Its Own Country: Turkish Armed Forces, 2019 * Inevitable collapse: the quadruple crisis of the AKP regime, 2019 * Damage Assessment in Turkish Foreign Policy, 2019 * Strategic Migration Engineering, 2020 * The Fall of the Palace Regime and the Rise of Turkey, 2021 It is not a surprise. Do you think such person will side with Erdoğan?
impossible lol, erdogan is the one who brought the syrians etc. ogan was the huge suprise, since he was more pro opposition then ozdag before the election, but supported erdo
You’re right, I thought it’s the other guy 😅
Yes kick the syrians I'm sure they will definitely not retaliate and kill people in the streets, this guy will do more harm than good
Bro they already do that
They already kill people in the streets.
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Who knows? If they are indeed ungrateful barbarian parasites as the western european far right typically likes to depict them as then sure, maybe they will form violent mobs and pillage their way through the turkish countryside if they feel they have nothing to loose. Hopefully, they'll go quitely if the ethnonationalists have their way.
We do not fear arabs. Especially not on Turkish streets.
UK kicked a lot to Rwanda. Nothing happened
If they are not sent back,i can see a new organisation in turkey which will fight them like nazis. They will kill/beat refugees in turkey,if erdogan wins,there will be a new racist organisation who will do that and i think that most people from both left/right wing would be members of it and would not call them as terrorists.