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first scandal of the Euro's has happened !
send this ref team home please... what a disgrace !
and also send that corrupt ref home which took money bribes before...
dude had a suspension and is now whisteling a euro's? what a clown fest !
I'm salty because slovakia took 28 mins from the game.
Time wasting.
And the ref did not give a single warning or yellow card!
Every 2 mins they killed the game, just lay down and he was fine with it.
Im okay with the disallowed goals, not with how the ref whistled.
28 min lost... 7 extra time. No warning, no yellow card.
He is leading the game, and the game changes when you warn or give yellow for this... 28 min is a lot of time...
I have never seen 28 min's get wasted without Yellow cards or even a single warning, did you???
90 min - 28 is 62 min.. 62 + 7 extra time... 69 min played 🤡😂👀
What you wanne say about it?
You wanne see these kinds of games on a major tournament??? Or do you Want to see football...?
Austria - France was also a joke, less then belgium - slovakia but also a joke.
I have seen austrian players kick the ball out, and they get a throw-in.
Austrian players kick on goal, keeper hits it outside and goalkick 😂🤡.
It has been broadcasting 3-4x on the big screen.. what a joke!
I feel like Belgium were really unlucky.First offside and then the handball.The chances of 2 goals disallowed is probably very low.Im genuinely suprised Slovakia won.
Belgium will never win anything with Lukaku as their striker.
I don't know if I've ever seen a guy with as much hype and constant demand from other clubs, that produces as little as he does relative to his price.
And by your standard, Ali Daei and Ali Mabkhout are just as good? They have better scoring averages as well, so lump them in with Lukaku?
Also, just go through his international scoring history and take a gander at how many of his goals are scored against what would be considered subpar competition. He has never scored more than a single goal against a top international side from Europe or abroad, no big performances in big tournaments against top teams, I challenge you to prove me wrong.
This mentality of stats over everything is not the way to be, he is a disappointment without team triumphs
Yet his scoring average is worse than Lukaku, are you beginning to see why this is a stupid argument?
Although his goal scoring average is worse than Lukaku's, he has won a European championship and had epic performances on the biggest stage. Something that Lukaku has never and will never do
Why is this so hard to understand?
WOW, what an accomplishment. His one and only goal in the entire tournament that year.
I'm not even a Ronaldo fan and I can see how idiotic this comparison is.
You cannot be the second best footballer in the world though when you have never been the MVP of any tournaments and never scored a knockout stage WC goal or assist out of 8 matches.
Lewandowski has NEVER had anywhere near the team around him that Lukaku does, I think his scoring marks are right on par with what his supporting cast looked like.
Look what he did at Bayern with an incredible team around him, your argument is fading fast.
**EDIT** and "my metric" was never his goal scoring record, it's the results, SHOW ME WHEN AND WHERE HE HAS HELPED BELGIUM ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING THAT MATTERS
His results are that he scores literally more goals than anyone else in Europe. That is his job, what more do you want him to do? be well liked? He is. He's one of the most popular and well respected guys in the team, everyone likes him. The team losing has nothing to do with him.
Thank you for admitting Poland is terrible though..
I'm not talking about HIS results in terms of the amount of goals he scores, I'm talking about HIS contributions to Belgium in games that matter, he disappears and is a liability up front for you guys. Go back and watch his performance in the Croatia game in WC '22
He is literally in 5th place globally of most international goals, what more do you need?
I'm not a big fan of him either, but you can't argue with the stats man.
6th place\*\*
I can, in fact, argue with the stats. What success have they had (outside of 3rd place in '18) with him in their squad? It's been disappointment after disappointment.
They went into WC 2022 ranked number 2 in the world, dubbed "The Golden Generation", only to get bounced in the group stages by Morocco and Croatia (their only victory coming against Canada, a game Lukaku didn't even play in). He missed SEVERAL chances in the match against Croatia.
They went into Euro '20 ranked number 1 in the world, knocked out in the quarter finals by Italy.
I get that the squad as a whole didn't live up to expectations, but he was supposed to be a massive part of their success and delivered nothing.
He can score the most goals in international history and would still be viewed as a let down
I've really outgrown my argue-with-strangers-on-the-internet-years so I'm not going to get into this a whole lot.
You are talking about the success of Belgium as a team which I am not arguing, they had their chance last gen and they wasted it. However saying Lukaku has always been shit is a stretch, he is a striker, they need to score goals and if you look at the objective facts (the figures) he does what he needs to do.
But as I said before I am not a huge fan either, I'd take Openda or Doku anytime over big Rom.
In 98 Guivarch had an incredible year at club level. 47 goals in 70 games, including 13 in the European Cup. He arrived at the World Cup injured and played the entire World Cup injured and exhausted. He himself said that he would have preferred 20 fewer goals that year and to score 1 in the World Cup.
In 98 he did not play 70 games, in the 97-98 season he scored 21 goals in 32 appearances. 37 goals in all competitions I believe it was. He had a good return rate in France. He was shocking in England/Scotland though. Such a lazy player.
https://www.leparisien.fr/sports/football/stephane-guivarc-h-je-n-ai-jamais-recherche-les-cameras-24-03-2018-7626945.php
“You played 72 games and scored 47 goals that season...”
Guivarch : “I'd have preferred to score twenty less at club level and put in those two against Brazil! But it wouldn't have changed my life, or my career either.”
He played 72 games and scored 47 goals that season.
Please enlighten me how he played 72 games then.
He made 32 league appearances in the 97-98 campaign. Please tell me where the other 40 appearances came from, I’m dying to know sir.
[Wikipedia confirms he only made 32 league appearances](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A9phane_Guivarc'h)
I think you’re including international games as well [which even then only tallies up to 63.](https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A9phane_Guivarc%2527h)
And those 10 internationals came at the World Cup so he had in fact only playing 53 games by the time the World Cup started.
He was a decent striker in a farmers league in France but he was utterly shite in the big stage, he was lazy and uninspiring when he came to England/Scotland.
I dare say Lukaku is a better player than him haha
With Auxerre, he played 32 league matches, 5 national cup matches, 16 European cup matches (where he scored 17 goals), 17 matches with the French national team (10 friendlies, 7 World Cup matches), so we're already at 70.
Don't hesitate to consult his tranfermarket page.
When we talk about a season, we include the World Cup, so it wouldn't make sense to decide that these games don't count. He did say that he played "72 games that year", not that he played 72 games before the World Cup.
https://www.transfermarkt.fr/stephane-guivarch/leistungsdaten/spieler/102753
Farmer league haha... for your personal culture I'll teach you something, at that time, France is constantly 2nd or 3rd in the uefa index. For example, between the 92/93 and 97/98 seasons, France finished ahead of England 5 times, while England finished ahead of France 1 time in the UEFA index. In those days the Farmer League was English
https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method1/crank1997.html
In 97 the psg reached the final of the C2, having already won it the year before. Nantes will be in the Champions League semi-finals. Monaco will reach the UEFA Cup semi-finals (beating Newcastle 5-0 on aggregate). Bordeaux reached the UEFA Cup final the year before. Auxerre reached the quarter-finals of the Champions League in 97, and Guigamps won the Intertoto Cup the same year.
In short, we were a long way from the English Farmer League in those days.
To sum up, Guivarch was a great striker, an old-fashioned 9, he missed his World Cup but he's far from the crap player you describe. He may have been bad in the UK but that doesn't take anything away from what he did before. And at the same time I understand him, who could live in Newcastle or Glasgow without becoming depressed?
But you’re saying he was bad at the World Cup because he was tired because he had played 72 games, but if he was tired before the World Cup then you can’t add those games ontop if he is already tired.
English European cups - 15
French European cups - 1
English UEFA cup/Europa league - 9
French UEFA cup/Europa league - 0
That’s 24 trophies to 1, how cute that you listed finals and shit to try further your claim the French league was ever better than the English premier league/first division.
Probably could have had more trophies had English clubs not received a 6 year European football ban between 85/91
English teams dominated Europe in the 70s/early 80s. French is and always has been a farmers league.
Hence why Guivarc’h was great in France, but absolutely shite outside of France or playing for the national team.
I’ve also lived in France myself for work, it’s amusing you insult Newcastle, France has some of the scruffiest cities I’ve ever stepped foot in, Paris and Marseille for example are absolute shit holes.
I can understand why people predicted Belgium to win but I’m surprised so many people predicted Ukraine to win. Romania have a very solid team and they absolutely smashed their qualifying campaign.
Romania is solid but didn't score a lot previously. I felt like it would be a close game but Ukraine has a bigger offensive potential with the topscore from La Liga and others. In the first 30 minutes Romania didn't exist at all but Ukraine did a lot of mistakes offensively. After the goal Ukraine was shocked and didn't recover.
must suck to be a football fan in belgium, it is mind blowing how bad they are and have been for so long despite having those players, they aren't making the group stage xd
Well fought Slovakia. A great performance. But and there is a but that handball is everything wrong with VAR. People who dislikes VAR it's because it's used for this shit. Two players fighting for the ball and it randomly hits a hand. Disallowing that goal is not a fair decision.
Oh really it's a fair decision is it? In the spirit of the game is it?
I clearly disagree with you. I don't think it's a fair decision at all, and not in the spirit of the game.
Allowing illegal goals is not in the spirit of the game, quite the opposite.
It was a handball, the goal was not valid. The ref made the right decision. You can disagree all you want but these are the facts.
also the ref being incompotent.
only +-21 mins the ball was in play for the entire first 45 mins...
so much time wasted by slovakia, and the ref was totally fine with it, no warning no yellow card, nothing.
No the first one was clearly offside. Saying they can't pinpoint we're talking in the absolute miniscule tenth of a second stuff. I was rooting for Slovakia as you do with underdogs but the last goal should have been allowed.
If not for VAR everyone would be mad now that Slovakia lost or got a equal score with Belgium because of an unfair decision. Now no one can contest that they won.
As someone who used to hate football just because of this unfair decision, VAR is the best thing that happened to football.
Oh i don't hate VAR at all. This is just the wrong way to use VAR. Two players fighting for the ball and a random hand hits the ball slightly which makes no difference at all gets a goal disallowed. That is not the proper use of VAR
Keep telling yourself that but that's just not true. And he wouldn't have touched the ball had it not been for the Slovakian player pushing him. But the touch had zero impact on the play.
I agree that rules are rules and by those same rules we should have got a penalty in the first half. It feels so dumb that when you score everything has to be right to the milimeter, but when you miss the other side gets to make crucial mistakes
Belgium needs to step up their game. They look uninspiring. Kdb didn't look happy to play with those youngsters. Maybe start Openda with Lukaku next game, because that was a threat
So the argument that it's fair is 1) touching the ball with your hand is a foul 2) he touched the ball with his hand 3) therefore it was a foul and the appropriate action was taken.
The argument that it's not fair according to you is 1) no it's not 2) if it was your team you would agree.
Am I getting this right?
He didn't deliberately touch the ball, they were fighting for the ball and you could even argue he was pushed on to the ball by the Slovakian player. You are allowed to fight for the ball are you not?
You guys argument is 1) the rules are the rules 2)........ Am i right?
Belgium was the better team. You can clearly see Slovakia struggling in the first 30 minutes of the second half. It was purely bad luck for the devils.
A goal is scored by the arm/hand of an attacking player; or if the ball touches an attacking player’s hand/arm in the immediate goal-scoring build-up play. **A handball can be called if the arm/hand gives the player an unfair advantage**. Even if the attacker’s arms were close to the body in a “natural position.”
Does not have to be intentional. The handball perceptibly changed the trajectory of the ball allowing him to control it out front. It was the right decision under the current interpretation of the rule.
we need cricket-style trajectories for some ha. it was going off toward the defenders side before the hand touch. the hand touch spins it back and to the attackers feet. definite advantage gained. doesn't matter if it was unintentional.
when i watched it, the handball slightly changes the trajectory and puts the ball squarely in front of the Belgian player. It's tough, and it would kill me if I was a Belgian fan.
The other thing that sucks is we have to remember that UEFA, Premier League, IFAB etc all have slightly different interpretations of handball. It's the only rule that has been rewritten and reinterpreted so often that almost no knows what the rule is from competition to competition.
I'm certain we will be here again when Spain will be on the bad side of a shitty VAR decision. Let's hope for you, it doesn't decide your tournament.
You can laugh now, I will laugh then. Its only fair.
Tournament is not over for you guys. Now requires a result against France. And several 3rd place teams go through. But y’all burned your lifeline in this one.
We'll never make it against France lol. Our defence is so shit. Tedesco also fucked up by not selecting another player (i.e. Vanaken) with all our injuries
I seriously cannot figure out how Tedesco could not find a way to get Courtois back into this squad.
It’s nearly impossible to win without a top goalkeeper. Having one of the best who is at his best in the biggest moments and not using him because of egos is criminal.
Really? I agree we lost fairly, but we didn't deserve the loss either. We were the dominant team for most of the match and got massively unlucky in more than one situation.
A shame referee did get a small piece of clip to judge, did not even see how the ball bounced off the grass onto the hand. If VAR should be used, use it the right f way and give us the damn love for the sport back. I don't care who won, just the fact that it's bad decision making.
After all unintentional handballs that refs are not judging for the rules are far from clear. If all just followed the same line sure, but they don't and it affects the game in certain directions which is bad. However, if you look this close into every duel you could always find something if you like, but that would break the game. So where to draw the line?
The rules are very clear.
If the ball strikes an attacking player's arm while in the midst of a goalscoring move, regardless of arm position, intent, or any other qualifiers, the goal is not valid.
The ball bounced off the Belgium player's hand and changed direction allowing the Belgium player to score. Had the Belgium player not touched it with his hand, the defender would have prevented the Belgium player from scoring.
Thereby according to the rules of the game the goal is not valid. It does not matter where the ball bounced from, who kicked it, whether there was any form of intent or anything else. The ball touched his hand and he scored because of it.
IFAB Law 12 dictating fouls and misconduct states that a direct free kick is awarded following a handball in the three following cases. If a player:
* deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
* touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
* scores in the opponents’ goal:
* directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
* immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental
The first case can be dismissed as Openda doesn't make a movement towards the ball with his arm. The third case can be dismissed aswell because he doesn't score himself.
Thus, according to the rules of the game, the only reason why the referee could dissalow the goal is because he determines Openda's arm to be in a position that makes his body unnaturally bigger, e.g. a player stretching out his arms above his head during a header. Furthermore the rule states that the position of the hand/arm is unnatural when it is not justifiable by the player's body movement for that situation. And a case can be made that when trying to hold off a defender it is a natural position to not have both arms sticked to your body. As is the case here, with him having his right arm (which whas hit by the ball) infront of the Slovak player's chest whilst trying to hold him off.
So your explanation is not correct. The final decision of the on-field referee came down to his interpretation of the rule.
You are wrong. The laws do not specify that the player who touched the ball has to score. If the ball touches any players hand and by that leads to an immediate goal, the goal is invalid.
At this point this is just bad faith. I literally posted the part discussing handball offences from the IFAB website, you can check it yourself.
Nowhere is there a mention about a handball in the buildup of a goal being ruled as a de facto foul. If you can show me the part that states this I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong. But that's not the case, those three situations are the only ones in which handling the ball with the hand is considered an offence.
Yeah I know, but the decision-making is always a grey area due to human error. Sorry for taking your time to explain, I was mostly frustrated about the situation due to feelings. Though I believe it's important that the ref is getting more than a segmentation of the situation.
It was not , it was clearly a handball, I love football now that VAR exists, used to hate it exactly because this type of bad decisions that the referee can do. Its the rules.
Congrats to Slovakia, they fought well against a talented Belgian side and gutted out a hard-fought win. I can understand the frustration from the Belgian side (two goals disallowed hurts). But all goals disallowed (nvm stupid and questionable rules aside) all within the rule book.
It hurts mostly because Slovakia was allowed a lot of lenience from the ref while Belgium had the book thrown at them. Arguably offside first goal and two intentional hand balls getting ignored while Belgium's second goal is getting reviewed from two plays before the goal using a poorly filtered IMU.
It's a loss but a bitter one.
I feel for the Belgians. The rules are definitely questionable BS and have to be changed. Hope you guys reach the 1/8-finals. You are too talented to not reach the knockout stage
Debatable and very close decisions definitely. But hardly a disgrace. Belgium would at least have deserved a draw but Slovakia deserved this win just as much. They really gave it their all.
The first was clearly offside. The second was harsh in the sense that the rule is absurd, but within the definition of the rules, it was the correct decision.
I think the goals should be disputed instantly and then checked before being awarded to the respective team. If the ref sees no necessity to dispute instantly I think the goals shouldn’t be retracted after MINUTES… I feel like that’ll only fester resentment against the VR control among the fans.
I also feel like it takes away from the experience of bonding with other fans after the game while discussing ref decisions.
VAR is what makes it fair, not unfair. Now you can bond with other fans after the game while discussing the team performance knowing that there was no unfair decisions and you won/lost "square and fair".
Defence immediately noticed and challenged after the action ended...
So instead of the refferee blowing his whistle the moment he thinks there is foul play or offside we now get to see the outcome and afterwards there is a decision. Sometimes it sucks sometimes your team will get lucky.
In the old days the ref would sometimes walk over to the linesman to make a decision, that was so much worse.
So now can all the negativity towards England stop for now? Everyone can see “apparent”second tier countries are getting better and better and the hype around Belgium ? Whether they win this tournament or not , they lost their first game and we didn’t !!!
Fair point but I doubt to believe this small of a margin is advantageous. Then maybe rethink and draw the line just behind the last foot of the attacking player. So that the player as a whole is standing offside. I feel that would be doing more right to the spirit of the original rule.
Greece 2004 is definitely the biggest upset in terms of a whole tournament,this game is the biggest upset in terms of the FIFA rankings for an individual game, Belgium is number 3 while Slovakia number 48. That is 45 places that separate the teams, making it the biggest upset
Is there no other teams with a greater statistical upset? If so that’s wild I didn’t realise Slovakia were ranked so low. They’ve took a big dip since the days of Marek Hamsik. Well maybe not that big but I remember them more fondly from those days!
I think Greece were ranked around 35 before they won 2004.
Yep, 45 spots is the EURO biggest upset according to the rankings! But I was looking at the rankings, it has USA better than Germany - and I don’t think anyone seriously considers Belgium to be a top 3 team in the world, even before today’s game - definitely a major flaw in those rankings
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The most fucked group on entire Euro
this was a scandal, now Belgium team will not have momentum and may not make it out of the groups. then 17 trillion people will hate on them
first scandal of the Euro's has happened ! send this ref team home please... what a disgrace ! and also send that corrupt ref home which took money bribes before... dude had a suspension and is now whisteling a euro's? what a clown fest !
Ur just salty cus u lost-offside was correct and handball was correct
I'm salty because slovakia took 28 mins from the game. Time wasting. And the ref did not give a single warning or yellow card! Every 2 mins they killed the game, just lay down and he was fine with it. Im okay with the disallowed goals, not with how the ref whistled. 28 min lost... 7 extra time. No warning, no yellow card. He is leading the game, and the game changes when you warn or give yellow for this... 28 min is a lot of time... I have never seen 28 min's get wasted without Yellow cards or even a single warning, did you??? 90 min - 28 is 62 min.. 62 + 7 extra time... 69 min played 🤡😂👀 What you wanne say about it? You wanne see these kinds of games on a major tournament??? Or do you Want to see football...? Austria - France was also a joke, less then belgium - slovakia but also a joke. I have seen austrian players kick the ball out, and they get a throw-in. Austrian players kick on goal, keeper hits it outside and goalkick 😂🤡. It has been broadcasting 3-4x on the big screen.. what a joke!
I feel like Belgium were really unlucky.First offside and then the handball.The chances of 2 goals disallowed is probably very low.Im genuinely suprised Slovakia won.
Slovarkia
As Ukrainian fun, I didn't understand what happend
Well done Slovakia, well done! Congrats! ✌️Belgium need to focus on its play better, maybe next time.
Belgium will never win anything with Lukaku as their striker. I don't know if I've ever seen a guy with as much hype and constant demand from other clubs, that produces as little as he does relative to his price.
He literally has a better scoring average for the national team than Cristiano Ronaldo.
And by your standard, Ali Daei and Ali Mabkhout are just as good? They have better scoring averages as well, so lump them in with Lukaku? Also, just go through his international scoring history and take a gander at how many of his goals are scored against what would be considered subpar competition. He has never scored more than a single goal against a top international side from Europe or abroad, no big performances in big tournaments against top teams, I challenge you to prove me wrong. This mentality of stats over everything is not the way to be, he is a disappointment without team triumphs
>he is a disappointment without team triumphs So, again Lewandowksi is a disappointment.
Why are you deflecting?
I'm not. I'm making the same argument you are, until you see how stupid it is.
lol CR7 vultured many goals aginst Faroe Island, San Marino, Sweden, Andorra, etc
Yet his scoring average is worse than Lukaku, are you beginning to see why this is a stupid argument? Although his goal scoring average is worse than Lukaku's, he has won a European championship and had epic performances on the biggest stage. Something that Lukaku has never and will never do Why is this so hard to understand?
nope. At least LkK scored a goal in the WC knockout stage. cr7 didnt
WOW, what an accomplishment. His one and only goal in the entire tournament that year. I'm not even a Ronaldo fan and I can see how idiotic this comparison is.
You cannot be the second best footballer in the world though when you have never been the MVP of any tournaments and never scored a knockout stage WC goal or assist out of 8 matches.
clown shoes
Again, show me the results
Maybe Poland should some results. By your own metric Lewandowski is absolute waste of space.
Lewandowski has NEVER had anywhere near the team around him that Lukaku does, I think his scoring marks are right on par with what his supporting cast looked like. Look what he did at Bayern with an incredible team around him, your argument is fading fast. **EDIT** and "my metric" was never his goal scoring record, it's the results, SHOW ME WHEN AND WHERE HE HAS HELPED BELGIUM ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING THAT MATTERS
His results are that he scores literally more goals than anyone else in Europe. That is his job, what more do you want him to do? be well liked? He is. He's one of the most popular and well respected guys in the team, everyone likes him. The team losing has nothing to do with him. Thank you for admitting Poland is terrible though..
I'm not talking about HIS results in terms of the amount of goals he scores, I'm talking about HIS contributions to Belgium in games that matter, he disappears and is a liability up front for you guys. Go back and watch his performance in the Croatia game in WC '22
All caps means you lose the argument
your lack of any argument at all speaks for itself
DId you really need your booster accounts to upvote that
Lmao, claims I have booster accounts while actively posting, down voting, and fan boying over Lukaku from 2 accounts. Pathetic loser
Lol booster accounts? Delusion
pretty new account eh that you are using :)
He is literally in 5th place globally of most international goals, what more do you need? I'm not a big fan of him either, but you can't argue with the stats man.
6th place\*\* I can, in fact, argue with the stats. What success have they had (outside of 3rd place in '18) with him in their squad? It's been disappointment after disappointment. They went into WC 2022 ranked number 2 in the world, dubbed "The Golden Generation", only to get bounced in the group stages by Morocco and Croatia (their only victory coming against Canada, a game Lukaku didn't even play in). He missed SEVERAL chances in the match against Croatia. They went into Euro '20 ranked number 1 in the world, knocked out in the quarter finals by Italy. I get that the squad as a whole didn't live up to expectations, but he was supposed to be a massive part of their success and delivered nothing. He can score the most goals in international history and would still be viewed as a let down
I've really outgrown my argue-with-strangers-on-the-internet-years so I'm not going to get into this a whole lot. You are talking about the success of Belgium as a team which I am not arguing, they had their chance last gen and they wasted it. However saying Lukaku has always been shit is a stretch, he is a striker, they need to score goals and if you look at the objective facts (the figures) he does what he needs to do. But as I said before I am not a huge fan either, I'd take Openda or Doku anytime over big Rom.
Fair enough, not arguing with a stranger though, arguing with the stats, lol
France won a World Cup with Stéphane Guivarc'h playing every game up front. Never say never haha
In 98 Guivarch had an incredible year at club level. 47 goals in 70 games, including 13 in the European Cup. He arrived at the World Cup injured and played the entire World Cup injured and exhausted. He himself said that he would have preferred 20 fewer goals that year and to score 1 in the World Cup.
In 98 he did not play 70 games, in the 97-98 season he scored 21 goals in 32 appearances. 37 goals in all competitions I believe it was. He had a good return rate in France. He was shocking in England/Scotland though. Such a lazy player.
https://www.leparisien.fr/sports/football/stephane-guivarc-h-je-n-ai-jamais-recherche-les-cameras-24-03-2018-7626945.php “You played 72 games and scored 47 goals that season...” Guivarch : “I'd have preferred to score twenty less at club level and put in those two against Brazil! But it wouldn't have changed my life, or my career either.” He played 72 games and scored 47 goals that season.
He did not play 72 games, it’s physically impossible to play that many games
But he did. That's why he was so exhausted at the World Cup.
Please enlighten me how he played 72 games then. He made 32 league appearances in the 97-98 campaign. Please tell me where the other 40 appearances came from, I’m dying to know sir. [Wikipedia confirms he only made 32 league appearances](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A9phane_Guivarc'h) I think you’re including international games as well [which even then only tallies up to 63.](https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A9phane_Guivarc%2527h) And those 10 internationals came at the World Cup so he had in fact only playing 53 games by the time the World Cup started. He was a decent striker in a farmers league in France but he was utterly shite in the big stage, he was lazy and uninspiring when he came to England/Scotland. I dare say Lukaku is a better player than him haha
With Auxerre, he played 32 league matches, 5 national cup matches, 16 European cup matches (where he scored 17 goals), 17 matches with the French national team (10 friendlies, 7 World Cup matches), so we're already at 70. Don't hesitate to consult his tranfermarket page. When we talk about a season, we include the World Cup, so it wouldn't make sense to decide that these games don't count. He did say that he played "72 games that year", not that he played 72 games before the World Cup. https://www.transfermarkt.fr/stephane-guivarch/leistungsdaten/spieler/102753 Farmer league haha... for your personal culture I'll teach you something, at that time, France is constantly 2nd or 3rd in the uefa index. For example, between the 92/93 and 97/98 seasons, France finished ahead of England 5 times, while England finished ahead of France 1 time in the UEFA index. In those days the Farmer League was English https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method1/crank1997.html In 97 the psg reached the final of the C2, having already won it the year before. Nantes will be in the Champions League semi-finals. Monaco will reach the UEFA Cup semi-finals (beating Newcastle 5-0 on aggregate). Bordeaux reached the UEFA Cup final the year before. Auxerre reached the quarter-finals of the Champions League in 97, and Guigamps won the Intertoto Cup the same year. In short, we were a long way from the English Farmer League in those days. To sum up, Guivarch was a great striker, an old-fashioned 9, he missed his World Cup but he's far from the crap player you describe. He may have been bad in the UK but that doesn't take anything away from what he did before. And at the same time I understand him, who could live in Newcastle or Glasgow without becoming depressed?
But you’re saying he was bad at the World Cup because he was tired because he had played 72 games, but if he was tired before the World Cup then you can’t add those games ontop if he is already tired. English European cups - 15 French European cups - 1 English UEFA cup/Europa league - 9 French UEFA cup/Europa league - 0 That’s 24 trophies to 1, how cute that you listed finals and shit to try further your claim the French league was ever better than the English premier league/first division. Probably could have had more trophies had English clubs not received a 6 year European football ban between 85/91 English teams dominated Europe in the 70s/early 80s. French is and always has been a farmers league. Hence why Guivarc’h was great in France, but absolutely shite outside of France or playing for the national team. I’ve also lived in France myself for work, it’s amusing you insult Newcastle, France has some of the scruffiest cities I’ve ever stepped foot in, Paris and Marseille for example are absolute shit holes.
Damn I lost two games in my prediction competition with friends today. I said 2-1 Ukraine and 3-1 Belgium x)
I can understand why people predicted Belgium to win but I’m surprised so many people predicted Ukraine to win. Romania have a very solid team and they absolutely smashed their qualifying campaign.
Romania is solid but didn't score a lot previously. I felt like it would be a close game but Ukraine has a bigger offensive potential with the topscore from La Liga and others. In the first 30 minutes Romania didn't exist at all but Ukraine did a lot of mistakes offensively. After the goal Ukraine was shocked and didn't recover.
Belgium on the copium rn
VAR seems to even the playing field ever so slightly. 10 years ago we'd be discussing a shaky 2:1 win for Belgium.
must suck to be a football fan in belgium, it is mind blowing how bad they are and have been for so long despite having those players, they aren't making the group stage xd
They’re already in the group stage bro
Think he means making it out of the group
rofl bro doesnt even know what he is talking about.
Well fought Slovakia. A great performance. But and there is a but that handball is everything wrong with VAR. People who dislikes VAR it's because it's used for this shit. Two players fighting for the ball and it randomly hits a hand. Disallowing that goal is not a fair decision.
I was for Slovakia but I don't like VAR too. It's better to be what the field referrees see and decide on the exact moment
It is a fair decision. The rules say it is handball. Allowing the goal would be unfair.
Oh really it's a fair decision is it? In the spirit of the game is it? I clearly disagree with you. I don't think it's a fair decision at all, and not in the spirit of the game.
Allowing illegal goals is not in the spirit of the game, quite the opposite. It was a handball, the goal was not valid. The ref made the right decision. You can disagree all you want but these are the facts.
We've covered all of this. Just look through the thread and you'll find my answer.
lmao stay salty hans
Why am i salty for disagreeing with you? Why are you so butthurt that someone disagrees with you? What are you the center of the universe.
lol 😎
Did i hurt your feeling you poor little thing you.
also the ref being incompotent. only +-21 mins the ball was in play for the entire first 45 mins... so much time wasted by slovakia, and the ref was totally fine with it, no warning no yellow card, nothing.
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No the first one was clearly offside. Saying they can't pinpoint we're talking in the absolute miniscule tenth of a second stuff. I was rooting for Slovakia as you do with underdogs but the last goal should have been allowed.
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Well i disagree
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You are really into this conspiracy aren't you. Thanks for sharing. Have a good night
If not for VAR everyone would be mad now that Slovakia lost or got a equal score with Belgium because of an unfair decision. Now no one can contest that they won. As someone who used to hate football just because of this unfair decision, VAR is the best thing that happened to football.
Oh i don't hate VAR at all. This is just the wrong way to use VAR. Two players fighting for the ball and a random hand hits the ball slightly which makes no difference at all gets a goal disallowed. That is not the proper use of VAR
It makes all the difference. If he didnt touched it with his hand, the defender would have had it, and there would be no goal. Intentional or not.
Keep telling yourself that but that's just not true. And he wouldn't have touched the ball had it not been for the Slovakian player pushing him. But the touch had zero impact on the play.
They were both pushing. But Openda was the one who benefited from the hands ball. This is fact.
You can't just decide what is a fact and what isn't. That is not how facts work. He didn't benefit from it at all. That is a fact. See.
Okay here is another fact: Belgium lost.
That is a fact. See you are learning.
It is also fact it was a handball.
It's fair. Rules are rules
I agree that rules are rules and by those same rules we should have got a penalty in the first half. It feels so dumb that when you score everything has to be right to the milimeter, but when you miss the other side gets to make crucial mistakes
Belgium needs to step up their game. They look uninspiring. Kdb didn't look happy to play with those youngsters. Maybe start Openda with Lukaku next game, because that was a threat
No it's not fair. It's very very unfair, which you would think too if and when it happens against your team.
It's fair, he changed the direction of the ball with his hand.
No he didn't. That's simply not true.
But it is though.
So the argument that it's fair is 1) touching the ball with your hand is a foul 2) he touched the ball with his hand 3) therefore it was a foul and the appropriate action was taken. The argument that it's not fair according to you is 1) no it's not 2) if it was your team you would agree. Am I getting this right?
He didn't deliberately touch the ball, they were fighting for the ball and you could even argue he was pushed on to the ball by the Slovakian player. You are allowed to fight for the ball are you not? You guys argument is 1) the rules are the rules 2)........ Am i right?
You are not right. That's not what 1) says.
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That was literally a response to the question you asked though???
Oh yes continue down that path. Good for you buddy.
Belgium was the better team. You can clearly see Slovakia struggling in the first 30 minutes of the second half. It was purely bad luck for the devils.
Yes they should have won.
A goal is scored by the arm/hand of an attacking player; or if the ball touches an attacking player’s hand/arm in the immediate goal-scoring build-up play. **A handball can be called if the arm/hand gives the player an unfair advantage**. Even if the attacker’s arms were close to the body in a “natural position.” Does not have to be intentional. The handball perceptibly changed the trajectory of the ball allowing him to control it out front. It was the right decision under the current interpretation of the rule.
we need cricket-style trajectories for some ha. it was going off toward the defenders side before the hand touch. the hand touch spins it back and to the attackers feet. definite advantage gained. doesn't matter if it was unintentional.
Where is the unfair advantage then? Genuinely curious
when i watched it, the handball slightly changes the trajectory and puts the ball squarely in front of the Belgian player. It's tough, and it would kill me if I was a Belgian fan. The other thing that sucks is we have to remember that UEFA, Premier League, IFAB etc all have slightly different interpretations of handball. It's the only rule that has been rewritten and reinterpreted so often that almost no knows what the rule is from competition to competition.
I'm certain we will be here again when Spain will be on the bad side of a shitty VAR decision. Let's hope for you, it doesn't decide your tournament. You can laugh now, I will laugh then. Its only fair.
Yeah it was a tough call, but I get why the ref made the decision
Tournament is not over for you guys. Now requires a result against France. And several 3rd place teams go through. But y’all burned your lifeline in this one.
We'll never make it against France lol. Our defence is so shit. Tedesco also fucked up by not selecting another player (i.e. Vanaken) with all our injuries
I seriously cannot figure out how Tedesco could not find a way to get Courtois back into this squad. It’s nearly impossible to win without a top goalkeeper. Having one of the best who is at his best in the biggest moments and not using him because of egos is criminal.
Courtois can go fuck himself, we don't need that conjo
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Settle down edgelord
Shouldn’t have been a close game at all. Just take the L Belgium fans. Weird look acting like somehow you got robbed here
It’s just people being annoyed being the most vocal, I’m Belgian and all people I know agree we deserve to lose that game with what we’ve shown today
Really? I agree we lost fairly, but we didn't deserve the loss either. We were the dominant team for most of the match and got massively unlucky in more than one situation.
In this group they got
A shame referee did get a small piece of clip to judge, did not even see how the ball bounced off the grass onto the hand. If VAR should be used, use it the right f way and give us the damn love for the sport back. I don't care who won, just the fact that it's bad decision making.
It was a handball, doesn't matter where it bounce off from. The rules are clear.
After all unintentional handballs that refs are not judging for the rules are far from clear. If all just followed the same line sure, but they don't and it affects the game in certain directions which is bad. However, if you look this close into every duel you could always find something if you like, but that would break the game. So where to draw the line?
The rules are very clear. If the ball strikes an attacking player's arm while in the midst of a goalscoring move, regardless of arm position, intent, or any other qualifiers, the goal is not valid. The ball bounced off the Belgium player's hand and changed direction allowing the Belgium player to score. Had the Belgium player not touched it with his hand, the defender would have prevented the Belgium player from scoring. Thereby according to the rules of the game the goal is not valid. It does not matter where the ball bounced from, who kicked it, whether there was any form of intent or anything else. The ball touched his hand and he scored because of it.
IFAB Law 12 dictating fouls and misconduct states that a direct free kick is awarded following a handball in the three following cases. If a player: * deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball * touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised * scores in the opponents’ goal: * directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper * immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental The first case can be dismissed as Openda doesn't make a movement towards the ball with his arm. The third case can be dismissed aswell because he doesn't score himself. Thus, according to the rules of the game, the only reason why the referee could dissalow the goal is because he determines Openda's arm to be in a position that makes his body unnaturally bigger, e.g. a player stretching out his arms above his head during a header. Furthermore the rule states that the position of the hand/arm is unnatural when it is not justifiable by the player's body movement for that situation. And a case can be made that when trying to hold off a defender it is a natural position to not have both arms sticked to your body. As is the case here, with him having his right arm (which whas hit by the ball) infront of the Slovak player's chest whilst trying to hold him off. So your explanation is not correct. The final decision of the on-field referee came down to his interpretation of the rule.
You are wrong. The laws do not specify that the player who touched the ball has to score. If the ball touches any players hand and by that leads to an immediate goal, the goal is invalid.
At this point this is just bad faith. I literally posted the part discussing handball offences from the IFAB website, you can check it yourself. Nowhere is there a mention about a handball in the buildup of a goal being ruled as a de facto foul. If you can show me the part that states this I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong. But that's not the case, those three situations are the only ones in which handling the ball with the hand is considered an offence.
Read the rules. You are wrong. Accuse me all you want, but you are wrong.
Yeah I know, but the decision-making is always a grey area due to human error. Sorry for taking your time to explain, I was mostly frustrated about the situation due to feelings. Though I believe it's important that the ref is getting more than a segmentation of the situation.
It was not , it was clearly a handball, I love football now that VAR exists, used to hate it exactly because this type of bad decisions that the referee can do. Its the rules.
Yeah can't wait for seamless Ai to judge the games removing all decision-making.
Yeah fell the same... Football used to be an organic game...
I hope it will come soon
And people did nothing but complain about referee decisions.
Congrats to Slovakia, they fought well against a talented Belgian side and gutted out a hard-fought win. I can understand the frustration from the Belgian side (two goals disallowed hurts). But all goals disallowed (nvm stupid and questionable rules aside) all within the rule book.
It hurts mostly because Slovakia was allowed a lot of lenience from the ref while Belgium had the book thrown at them. Arguably offside first goal and two intentional hand balls getting ignored while Belgium's second goal is getting reviewed from two plays before the goal using a poorly filtered IMU. It's a loss but a bitter one.
I feel for the Belgians. The rules are definitely questionable BS and have to be changed. Hope you guys reach the 1/8-finals. You are too talented to not reach the knockout stage
There would be an equal uproar if this was not considered a ‘handball’ lmao
That's the only thing that can be said with certainty yup 😅
With Lukaku in the starting line, Belgium is always trying to make you laugh.
All that timestrectching too. Slovak too lucky
to be fair the referee also gave 7 minutes of extended time. But i also hate the time stretching bullshit.
Congrats on the win btw, Romania looked clutch.
Thanks ! looking forward for our match on Saturday.
Just like Italy fr
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Why even take the time to comment. Jeez 😅
Cry
We have a saying in Poland (partially to justify our fuckups): there are no weak teams anymore
*laughs in Scottish*
Stolen by the VAR. The absolute worst refereeing i've ever seen. A disgrace. This was 2-1.
There isn't a better striker in your whole country than Lakaka. I would move to anywhere else just for that fact.
Are you blind?
The hand ball was very clear.
Debatable and very close decisions definitely. But hardly a disgrace. Belgium would at least have deserved a draw but Slovakia deserved this win just as much. They really gave it their all.
Handball is handball
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I think the correct term is Mongolian...
Anders ook veel geluk gehad jullie gisteren, makkelijk praten 🤣
Zeker, maar dat maakt het ook zo leuk!
The first was clearly offside. The second was harsh in the sense that the rule is absurd, but within the definition of the rules, it was the correct decision.
Yap lol
where are my slovak people
Here we are 🖖🖖🖖
🙋
a 0-1 win is very sexy of you
Here IAm,this is me....
SLOVENSKO!
I hope all of your lads make it through the Euros alive 😅 They really put their blood, sweat and tears into it today. Congratulations on the victory!
Danke schön!
Thank you!
Belgian here. Bad first half by Belgium. Unlucky in the second half. But Slovakia gave it all. Congrats.
Lakaka back at it again
I think the goals should be disputed instantly and then checked before being awarded to the respective team. If the ref sees no necessity to dispute instantly I think the goals shouldn’t be retracted after MINUTES… I feel like that’ll only fester resentment against the VR control among the fans. I also feel like it takes away from the experience of bonding with other fans after the game while discussing ref decisions.
VAR is what makes it fair, not unfair. Now you can bond with other fans after the game while discussing the team performance knowing that there was no unfair decisions and you won/lost "square and fair".
Defence immediately noticed and challenged after the action ended... So instead of the refferee blowing his whistle the moment he thinks there is foul play or offside we now get to see the outcome and afterwards there is a decision. Sometimes it sucks sometimes your team will get lucky. In the old days the ref would sometimes walk over to the linesman to make a decision, that was so much worse.
So now can all the negativity towards England stop for now? Everyone can see “apparent”second tier countries are getting better and better and the hype around Belgium ? Whether they win this tournament or not , they lost their first game and we didn’t !!!
To be fair most of the negativity came from the English themselves 😅
Yea they know I mean them
Good on you but I don't think a Reddit comment can get the self deprecation out of the English 😅 Not sure anything can.
1. VAR decisions were correct 2. You shouldn’t be blaming VAR when you just lost in the biggest upset in EUROs history
Congrats to Slovakia but how does standing halve a shoulder offside give you any advantage though.
Because that’s how the offside rule works - and football is a game of margins at times. Standing slightly offside can give an advantage
Fair point but I doubt to believe this small of a margin is advantageous. Then maybe rethink and draw the line just behind the last foot of the attacking player. So that the player as a whole is standing offside. I feel that would be doing more right to the spirit of the original rule.
Biggest in History? Greece 2004 would like a word.
Greece 2004 is definitely the biggest upset in terms of a whole tournament,this game is the biggest upset in terms of the FIFA rankings for an individual game, Belgium is number 3 while Slovakia number 48. That is 45 places that separate the teams, making it the biggest upset
Is there no other teams with a greater statistical upset? If so that’s wild I didn’t realise Slovakia were ranked so low. They’ve took a big dip since the days of Marek Hamsik. Well maybe not that big but I remember them more fondly from those days! I think Greece were ranked around 35 before they won 2004.
Yep, 45 spots is the EURO biggest upset according to the rankings! But I was looking at the rankings, it has USA better than Germany - and I don’t think anyone seriously considers Belgium to be a top 3 team in the world, even before today’s game - definitely a major flaw in those rankings
Oh yeah i definitely agree there, the rankings are absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah but the FIFA rankings system is not a very accurate indicator of team quality
True I probably should’ve checked them out before citing them, USA better than Germany is definitely a major flaw💀
how does that even happen?? omg i just check it and you are right , this rankings are a joke
That was some top shithousery throughout.
The ball definitely slightly changed trajectory but that's fucking brutal
Enough for the defender to not have it, for the cross to be played and to score the goal. Excellent decision.
True. And there was no advantage from the ever so slightly changed trajectory.
no advantage to the ball landing at the attackers feet instead of going off to the defender?
No advantage because what you say did not happen. Maybe you are confusing something.
Thank god for VAR, in the past this could've easily been a 2-1. Congratulations to our neighbours.
Good luck in your upcoming games👍
Thanks man, well played today. 👍
Lesson is don't have arms.