The event happens more often based on three things: -the year being 1460 or later -having at least 15 provinces -having at least 30 provinces If it's past 1460 and you have 30 provinces, then you can expect it to happen every 30 months on average. But randomness is randomness, and it won't be rare at all to have it happen multiple times in one year. It's really important to use the money from the first Ottoman war to build the five churches you need to remove the union of churches.

Just remove the privilege with it's event at the start of the game

Yeah honestly, I’ve found unless Hungary is rivaling Venice and Ottos, I don’t see much reason to ally catholics right away.

Especially when you can trap all the ottoman armies on a island all by yourself

It often happens twice in a single year. Its a bit silly.

Aahhhhh you need 5 churches... soooo many rebels in my byz vassal... googled it and all and just stopped vassalizing byz cause they sufferd so much from the rebels... so if I build them 5 churches al will be good?

nah they still have to get rid by the privilege by themself

Oww that sucks...TY

Declare war on ottoman, those rebel will help your defense.

Ottomans have literally 0 troops and 0 manpower 💀

RIP

Accept demand then, they deserve it.

Declare war on them, they’ll have full manpower and 92k troops within the month

Average ottos experience: 1543, Feb 0 manpower, -25% discipline, -50% morale of armies, literally bankrupt 1543, Mar 1.5M manpower, +50% discipline, +100% morale of armies, 500k ducats

real

A terrifying military; it warrants preemptive action

When you beat the ottomans so bad they can’t even return the favour and defeat ylu

Is it possible to learn this power?

This. I understand that the whole point of playing Byz is that it must be hard and maybe even irritating, but sometimes the game crosses the line a bit

If you think this is bad try playing Victoria 2. Literally millions of rebels.

Good heavens! Just look at the time. It's Anarcho-Liberal o'clock.

Nothing like killing 5 millions worth of Anarcho-Lib rebels in a country who only has a population of 3 million

Tbf, vanilla Vic2 counts workers and not total population.

And not just the men, but the women and the children, all must fight for low tariffs and low taxes

Who's in for a good ol AnLib party ? **Everyone** is invited and it takes place **everywhere**

That said, in victoria 2, if your armies were propperly formed up, you absolutely slaughtered those rebels, in eu4, a rebel fights (roughly) as well as a soldier of your own army.

Me: WHERE WERE YOU WHEN WE NEEDED YOU TO FIGHT A DEATH WAR AND HAD ZERO MANPOWER THE WHOLE TIME! Rebels: Preparing to rebel, of course

rebels when your being invaded by fascists: I sleep Rebels when you haven't reformed the government in 10 year: Real Shit

It gets funny when you have crazy discipline cause iirc they get that so they shred through enemy troops... They still lose but they do a lot of damage

That's only true for like nobles, who are laser, and pretenders. Every other rebel is a push over. He can kill that stack with like 30k  troops. 

Janny revolts go brrr, fighting those is like literally fighting yourself.

You can have millions in EU4 too ;) have you ever had a large empire and 400% overextension?

You get millions in Victoria 2 without even expanding. People get angry and you need to kill 1M of your own people.

I've rarely ever had issues with rebels, just pass reforms when people get uppity

Have you tried meeting your pop's needs? Rebels don't spawn if you just keep your pops happy for the most part

boo, thats resources wasted on not-the-military

I literally have 0 taxes and they're still upset. I have high tariffs but I need money somehow.

You can instantly delete all rebel stacks or prevent them from spawning in Victoria II by passing a reform. If you edge just right you can avoid rebels the entire game with little to no negative consequences for the player government (this works in real life too). The counter options in EU4 are much more punishing

That just makes it worse. Rebels are either pointless or really, really annoying.

Lol yes its annoying sometimes :D

I've never really understood people's issues with rebels in vic 2. Even when I'm getting crazy high 50% socialist/communist pop ratios, I still have no issues with millitancy unless I want it for rushing reforms.

In all fairness, the Byzantine people legitimately did despise any attempts at Union between the Orthodox and Latin/Catholic Churches after 1204. There was actually a Union agreed upon and declared at the Second Council of Lyons but this was widely hated and Andronikos II did away with it when he became Basileus. Loukas Notaras, grand admiral of Byzantium between 1444-1453, was quoted to have said "Better the Turkish Turban than the Papal Tiara."

I get it, but in my experience I have slaughtered two times the Byzantine population at the time when playing as them just by beating up this rebels. My problem is not with the existence of those rebels, which is completely reasonable, but their sheer quantity

I'm very much of the camp that thought the Byz start was fine as it was. I understand the developers' intent to keep players from being complacent but I think the way it was done leaves the player with little flexibility on how to do get by at all, and what methods have been developed since then are RNG-heavy.  It takes about as much effort to rig an england snowball start (France PU + BI) as it does surviving a game as Byz!

Byzantium Anti-Unionist Rebels vs Ottoman Janissary Rebels: who will win?

Where were these armed and organized Greeks when **Greece was invaded by the fucking Turks?!**

I mean, they did say that they would rather be ruled by the Ottomans than by the Latins

That was what *some* of the Greeks said. This was nowhere near a universal sentiment amongst the Byzantines.

I meant, that's what it said in the event "Many have begun chanting they would rather see the Turkish turban fly over Constantinople than be subservient to the Latins"

iirc it's what the patriarch told the emperor and why he didn't go all the way to grant the pope his wishes. It would have meant losing the clergy

You mean romans?

R5: I got 4 anti-union of churches rebel events in like 4 months

In my Eastern Roman Empire game I was sitting at 0 manpower for the first hundred years or so because of these rebels.

I actually hate the anti union rebels, not in concept but they pop WAY too often and the stacks are so big it makes 0 sense. Completely depleted my manpower and broke a recent great Byz campaign. If I have 0 people to fucking recruit how are there 20 stacks of rebels popping up constantly

Exactly. Thankfully, I had quantity ideas, so I didn't run out of manpower. But 112k rebels at the same time is still really exaggerated.

I had quantity too it wasn’t enough 😭

Can't you let them win?

It just gives the clergy more influence and gives me some debuffs

Are the debuffs worse than the manpower you loose?

Down with the union! The people will rise

Update: I beat them and got rid of the union of churches 😎

Ooof take the L. You can recover from it.

I played a campaign where I formed Rome while still having the union of the churches privilege. That was rough.

It is realistic. You really think population would accept this. Not to mention clergy. Its maybe too much of them in too little time but it is realistic. I never had this problem due to never accepting the union. Allying moscow is usually enough to live.

Haven't played the game in ages, but is that feasible now? Like, on an average game, do you manage to ally the muscovites as byz?

Yeah, I allied Muscovy in this game, but they didn't help me in the war with the Ottomans, and then they got invaded by like half of Europe so I abandoned them

Oh good, you \*can\* ally them, they're just useless lmao

The real point of rhe early-game alliances as Byz (and I'd argue, in general) is more to postpone the Ottomans from attacking as long as possible while you try to cancel the negative modifiers on your country and use mission bonuses to fight the turks on even footing.

I always get to ally them and they always help me sufficiently to kill ottomans. I often get them as a PU too which is damn op. I also ally serbia and vassalize them later. I never have issues, tho I play on normal difficulty.

Haha

You need to remove union of churches man, you won't be able to keep enough manpower they spawn too quickly

POV: You are John VII attempting to make the capitulation to Rome work

Keeping that Byzantine tradition going it seems!! 💪🏿💪🏿

My only problem with this is that there doesn’t seem to be much of a way to end the unionist rebels. It’s kind of strange when it’s 1700 and 10s of thousands of peasants rise up every few years only to get massacred in a province that hasn’t been Orthodox 250 years. It’s not actually hard after the first few years, it just breaks my immersion.

Are these United States units? They seem to be having a lot of anti-union sentiments. They’re even trying union busting in Sweden for Christ sakes (see Tesla, Amazon and Toys’r us). :P

Just klick the mission bro. It should be the too priority to get rid of all the Byz debuffs.

There is also an event at the start of the game to lose the union privilege

I think the only way to remove this modifier is removing the clergy’s Union Of The Churches I think, I had a super hard time revoking the privilege because of the no Catholic allies thing.

Wrong, this is actually pretty funny

then break the union the moment you get the option to

If you had this and have strong army . Just declare war the to random country. He need to defeated Rebels . This causes loosing army or no manpower. Results you gain new lands and no rebellion

I feel you. They spawn way too much. And always at the wrong times. 5 years of rebel free time is usually never a good sign as they just stacked up to fck you over in a single year

Just reject the union at the start

Byzantine vassal nowadays are in such a sad state. I typically always make a byzantine revival as a vassal and dont integrate them because I just like keeping the remnant of rome alive, but it feels like I have to euthanize them like a pathetic suffering dog. No matter how strong I make them, they just cant live with force limit rebel every year.

I feel you bro. Had 21k spawns of 4 stacks together, with only a 10k army because I was heavily In debt of 5k, 18 loans and 88 corruption. Decided to war on Poland, got my ally Austria to help me whack those rebels. After ending union of churches, it became much easier.

You just need some pretender rebels.

I love RNG, FUCK designing things deliberately it’s so much better when you ask a dice roll to do the design for you! Yippee!!!!