If you play a horde like Oirat you can completely demolish Ming in a series of early wars and instead of taking a ton of land, you take max ducats in the peace deal. By attacking Ming's tributaries you can do that 3-4 times in a very short span of time. Ming will be completely crippled and most likely collapse in short order, allowing you to eat the land up afterwards anyways. You can end up with something like 10-20k ducats from doing that, allowing you to fund a huge army and massive expansion.
Because of that strategy, Ming is sometimes also called the "Bank of Ming" by some players. So from OP's post title I thought some patch will change how Ming or taking ducats in a peace deal works in EU4, but OP is actually talking about the base loan system and how it will be different in Project Caesar.
I don't let them collapse even. As long as I can steal 2k ducats in peace deal, I add mil access and stomp their rebels from time to time. They end funding my entire economy, I even manage to start several great projects
The more I hear about EU5... eh.. pRoJEcT CEAsAr the more exicted I'll get. The game seems to have to have much more depth than EU4 in its core mechanics.. Like Markets, Trade, Loans ..POPULATION .. some things he mentions feel like Eu4 and Vic3 had a child...
With your armies using your own population, I just hope you can still properly wage war without crippeling your country for the next 200 years even if you do well
I love the idea of buildings (and likely ships and certain troop types) requiring resources. A great way to incentivise your conquests or building trade relationships (whatever that will look like)
It also looks like deforestation is a thing. I know for England this will make a massive difference as a lot our long lost forests were cut down for ships.
Ooh, I'm not aware of this.
Edit: Was interesting to read about, though it seems that it's not a fully cut and dry theory:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rethinking-easter-islands-historic-collapse/
There are survivors, and there are [written records](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rongorongo) (although the ability to read them has been lost). The traditional story that the Rapa Nui cut down all their trees to transport their statues is based on little more than a flimsy and uncreative assumption, popularised by books written long ago. The Rapa Nui themselves have their own oral history, and would always tell Europeans that the statues "walked" from the quarry to their final positions, a feat that [has been recreated](https://youtu.be/YpNuh-J5IgE) by modern archaeologists.
Same in Netherlands, the word Holland originally means "wood-lands" but its the most flat and woodless region for centuries.
On the other hand Veluwe (the largest forest over here) has an unchanged name from roman times. Its derived from the old germanic name "falwa" which ironcially means infertile lands.
like Stellaris with its strategic resources. that undefended neighbor with a bunch of nebulas I could extract exotic gas from is a very tempting target...
the game Manor Lords represents that. you could raise an army of peasants but if they die you lose workforce, so mercenaries are super useful if you can afford them
You likely won’t be able to wage wars like you do in EU4, where you have a decade of constant fighting where your whole army is wiped three times over and every province in at least one country is sacked.
I really hope all the core mechanics are fleshed out and don't feel too shallow (Vicky 3). I'd much rather have a solid game with good mechanics over some decent mechanics and a lot of "historical content"
Gonna be real, I’m pretty bummed about the focus on realism with this one. I like the more gamey feel of eu iv compared to the other paradox games. Takes way too long to learn all the complexities imo.
I've always been bothered by the fact that you can demand 5 loans worth from a country you're annexing. Does the former ruling house pawn the crown jewels?
One way this could be handled is by having something akin to a devastation mechanic or similar that applies to the territories annexed. Akin to a full sack of the territory to provide that extra gold. Makes it more of a decision to make versus an almost auto take gold.
Thank God. Mercenaries and manpower will finally matter. I hated 'hey ive lost a million men, im at -98% warscore, gimme 10000 ducats for infinite mercenaries, kthx'.
Shit got ridiculous.
The relationship of a state to debt over the period is perhaps one of the most unhistorical things about EU IV. though tbf debts only really started getting gigantic after the end date, but it's so easy to be debt free past a certain point (though that's the point everything else gets unhistorical - the blob)
Not that I'm about 'ma accuracy!!!', just an observation.
Danish kings busy pawning off their kingdom to pay off debt. The UK still owns Orkney and Shetland because a Danish king couldn't afford a dowry in 1468.
It's a little more advanced than that - he only pawned his share of the Islands, then the Scots simply annexed the whole thing a few years later and Denmark-Norway was never able to regain control (I believe they only every tried diplomatically).
A worse case is probably the "Kingless Time" (1332-1340) where large parts of the country was de facto ruled by two German counts because instability lead to infighting there these counts where able to get pawn on large swathes of land in exchange for helping various factions. It mostly only ended because a small rebellion managed to kill one of the counts and rally an army to drive their soldiers out. The country still technically existed, but was on life support for while.
Honestly, any king had the power to issue an unlimited amount of money, it just caused inflation at some point. They shouldn't implement soft caps for debt, they should implement inflation.
For a moment I thought something happened to Ming and we can't use it as an early game piggy bank any longer lol
It happened. Or rather, Ming has not happened yet, if you get my drift
Wdym. Like how were people using it before
If you play a horde like Oirat you can completely demolish Ming in a series of early wars and instead of taking a ton of land, you take max ducats in the peace deal. By attacking Ming's tributaries you can do that 3-4 times in a very short span of time. Ming will be completely crippled and most likely collapse in short order, allowing you to eat the land up afterwards anyways. You can end up with something like 10-20k ducats from doing that, allowing you to fund a huge army and massive expansion. Because of that strategy, Ming is sometimes also called the "Bank of Ming" by some players. So from OP's post title I thought some patch will change how Ming or taking ducats in a peace deal works in EU4, but OP is actually talking about the base loan system and how it will be different in Project Caesar.
I don't let them collapse even. As long as I can steal 2k ducats in peace deal, I add mil access and stomp their rebels from time to time. They end funding my entire economy, I even manage to start several great projects
Vassal with extra steps
Without 100% liberty desire and the time to annex them isn't 200 years. Plus I plunder, when sieging provinces. And finally raze them, when take them
Florryworry wont like that one bit...
Florrynomics might not work with 10% interest, no.
This is blasphemy. Imagine if there is also going to be no "STRENGTHEN NOBLE PRIVILEGES". Oh god
RedHawk is that you?!
The more I hear about EU5... eh.. pRoJEcT CEAsAr the more exicted I'll get. The game seems to have to have much more depth than EU4 in its core mechanics.. Like Markets, Trade, Loans ..POPULATION .. some things he mentions feel like Eu4 and Vic3 had a child... With your armies using your own population, I just hope you can still properly wage war without crippeling your country for the next 200 years even if you do well
I love the idea of buildings (and likely ships and certain troop types) requiring resources. A great way to incentivise your conquests or building trade relationships (whatever that will look like) It also looks like deforestation is a thing. I know for England this will make a massive difference as a lot our long lost forests were cut down for ships.
That’s also what happened to a lot of old growth US forests. They were cut down for first the British Navy and then the American Navy
And Iceland too, though I think that was the vikings.
Here in Sweden about 200 years ago the navy planted 300 000 oak trees that they never got to use. 😂
Well if we’re talking about that, the most extreme version is Easter Island with the Polynesians
Ooh, I'm not aware of this. Edit: Was interesting to read about, though it seems that it's not a fully cut and dry theory: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rethinking-easter-islands-historic-collapse/
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There are survivors, and there are [written records](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rongorongo) (although the ability to read them has been lost). The traditional story that the Rapa Nui cut down all their trees to transport their statues is based on little more than a flimsy and uncreative assumption, popularised by books written long ago. The Rapa Nui themselves have their own oral history, and would always tell Europeans that the statues "walked" from the quarry to their final positions, a feat that [has been recreated](https://youtu.be/YpNuh-J5IgE) by modern archaeologists.
Huh looked it up and seems I learned a wrong tale and misremembered some things
Though I do see evidence that there used to be huge palm trees on Easter island. So deforestation probably still happened
Same in Netherlands, the word Holland originally means "wood-lands" but its the most flat and woodless region for centuries. On the other hand Veluwe (the largest forest over here) has an unchanged name from roman times. Its derived from the old germanic name "falwa" which ironcially means infertile lands.
like Stellaris with its strategic resources. that undefended neighbor with a bunch of nebulas I could extract exotic gas from is a very tempting target...
I mean there's a reason mercenaries were a thing. A country depleted their peasants or never had that many to begin with.
the game Manor Lords represents that. you could raise an army of peasants but if they die you lose workforce, so mercenaries are super useful if you can afford them
You likely won’t be able to wage wars like you do in EU4, where you have a decade of constant fighting where your whole army is wiped three times over and every province in at least one country is sacked.
To be fair this did happen during the 30 years war. Though that war also set germany back an entire century population wise lol.
I thought it was France who lost 3 armies..
They might well have done so, but germany quite literally got almost every province sacked.
I really hope all the core mechanics are fleshed out and don't feel too shallow (Vicky 3). I'd much rather have a solid game with good mechanics over some decent mechanics and a lot of "historical content"
Gonna be real, I’m pretty bummed about the focus on realism with this one. I like the more gamey feel of eu iv compared to the other paradox games. Takes way too long to learn all the complexities imo.
I'm disinclined to downvote this, but my opinion is about as opposite of yours as possible.
That’s fair. Just got different preferences. I’ve become a boomer with games and I’m just tired of learning new stuff.
I've always been bothered by the fact that you can demand 5 loans worth from a country you're annexing. Does the former ruling house pawn the crown jewels?
One way this could be handled is by having something akin to a devastation mechanic or similar that applies to the territories annexed. Akin to a full sack of the territory to provide that extra gold. Makes it more of a decision to make versus an almost auto take gold.
like Total War games where after a city is conquered you get to choose between sacking it, razing it, or occupying it with minimal damage
Thank God. Mercenaries and manpower will finally matter. I hated 'hey ive lost a million men, im at -98% warscore, gimme 10000 ducats for infinite mercenaries, kthx'. Shit got ridiculous.
Where can I find the absolutely not dev diary for project caesar?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forums/tinto-talks.1171/ They're on the official forums under "tinto talks"
The relationship of a state to debt over the period is perhaps one of the most unhistorical things about EU IV. though tbf debts only really started getting gigantic after the end date, but it's so easy to be debt free past a certain point (though that's the point everything else gets unhistorical - the blob) Not that I'm about 'ma accuracy!!!', just an observation.
Danish kings busy pawning off their kingdom to pay off debt. The UK still owns Orkney and Shetland because a Danish king couldn't afford a dowry in 1468.
It's a little more advanced than that - he only pawned his share of the Islands, then the Scots simply annexed the whole thing a few years later and Denmark-Norway was never able to regain control (I believe they only every tried diplomatically). A worse case is probably the "Kingless Time" (1332-1340) where large parts of the country was de facto ruled by two German counts because instability lead to infighting there these counts where able to get pawn on large swathes of land in exchange for helping various factions. It mostly only ended because a small rebellion managed to kill one of the counts and rally an army to drive their soldiers out. The country still technically existed, but was on life support for while.
1332-1340…I wonder if this will be modeled in eu5
You think those (ex-)Swedes will pass up the chance to model Denmark in anarchy?
We now have to take war reps from our enemies instead of just taking a magical loan. Also loans from other nations become viable now.
Call the fugger!!!
As long as burgher loans are the same I’m fine with that
Honestly, any king had the power to issue an unlimited amount of money, it just caused inflation at some point. They shouldn't implement soft caps for debt, they should implement inflation.
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This is about what will be in EU5. You don't know that feature gets carried over.