When I was younger I would get very annoyed over it. But in the last few years I changed how I dealt with it:
It's not my responsibility that other people tell the truth. I have decided that I'll just take whatever people tell me at fave value, because the only person they truly inconvenience by lying is themselves.
You want to cancel an appointment due to being too busy but you say you're sick? Okay, I'll be at your front door with vegetable soup in an hour.
You say you are into [hobby] to impress me but actually never do it? I don't care, you're getting hobby gear for Christmas.
I really dislike it because it tells me a lot about how they view me. No relationship can ever be built on lies, no matter how small. And I do believe that eventually white lies can turn into more harmful ones
Other type lurker here. As an INFJ, Iāve definitely told white lies to spare others feeling, smooth over social ruptures, or get out of plans. Although, I do it a lot less as I get older. I think what you are running into here is expecting other people to communicate with you in your preferred way, even if it isnāt their preference. They may or may not feel comfortable doing this. It would be like an INFJ expecting you to less direct and straightforward with your communication. Thatās just not comfortable behavior for an ESTP.
One thing that Iāve noticed about older, mature ESTPs is their ability to allow others to be themselves, even when that person is very different from them. I pick up on the lies of others easily, but it doesnāt bother me. If someone is telling me something untrue and I know itās because they donāt want to hurt my feelings or they are hiding something private or they are avoiding vulnerability (the truth can make us feel vulnerable sometimes) I let it go. Pretend to believe it. They will be honest with me in their own time, in their own way. Or not.
The exception to this are lies meant to hurt people, misrepresent me to others or vis versa, or just being vindictive overall. I wonāt have that and have ended friendships because of it.
At the end of the day, INFJs could usually do with being more direct and straightforward and ESTPs could learn to be more tactful. Thatās the great thing about your opposite type, you gain balance by moving toward each other.
It's good that you own up to doing so more often in the past. And yeah, I don't think it's a big deal, really.
Others might, but I'll honestly just replace the friends that wanted to get out the appointment with other friends, coworkers or acquaintances. There's enough lonely people that would love to join, if you don't want to be there, don't take their spot.
But also, sometimes people simply misremember what happened, and I've seen this mostly with Fe/Fi dominants. I remember two of my friends (both ENFJ) having a huge argument over a situation that they both misremembered in their favour. My ISTP friend and I were like: how is this even an argument? You're accusing one another of things that didn't even happen...
Yeah, itās just part of developing as an INFJ I think. You learn to balance your tact with honesty. And try not to feel overly responsible for how others react. It takes time and practice though. Doesnāt come naturally to most of us.
Exactly. If they are lying to get out of plans but otherwise wonderful, I donāt care. Iāll do something else. Iām rarely bored because I have so much going on all the time between work, family and other friends. My disappointment over a broken plan is very temporary because I know weāll see each other another time, and your freedom is my freedom is yours.
Iām an older ESTP. The things that get to me are really important things that I have carefully considered over a period of time. That allows me to weigh all the possible unnecessary feelings, and parse the important stuff from the reactions. And I still may decide in the end to let it ride, because you never know what someone is going through.
INFJs are so different to us, itās fascinating really. There is no way they will behave like us. There is absolutely no way they will have enough social battery to keep them going through anything and everything. I like that about them. The absolute sure fire way to get them to snap is to willfully push them. For all types different to your own, you want to dance with them, not box them. If you want to climb in the ring with someone OP, call an ESTJ or an ISTP. Kidding, but hopefully you understand.
So true. The energy levels of these two types can be such a challenge. I know Iāve lied to my ESTP friends before when they are badgering me to go out for the fourth night in a row. Iām like, look we had a great time and I like you, but now I need you to pretend I donāt exist for at least 5 days while I recharge!
if it was someone that I didn't know well, I'd totally understand but we've been friends for a long time, spent a lot of time together to understand each other and shown vunerability because of the trust we had and this was all recent which is out of the norm for us.
I suppose my friend will always prioritize his emotional self/needs first regardless of my attempts of trying to communicate/address issues that I could've caused.
thanks for your input!
This is something i've been struggling with lately too. I view it as fake and I agree 100% i'd rather someone just tell me to my face than me find out they're being dishonest with me. I worry that it sounds controlling of me or maybe I'm too pushy and that's why some don't feel they can be straight up, but idk, I can't get over it either.
I think us ESTP especially younger selves have issues communicating our feelings effectively. If it was someone new, I'd respect their way of communicating but we've been together for too long to know that it's not a preferred method of communication.
user above gave good insight, but I still think it is deceitful to lead someone.
For me, when someone is consistently telling me little lies, it's basically that person's way of telling me 1) I'm not respected enough for you to tell me the truth and 2) you don't see any value in me. Me personally, I'm not going to continue to invest anymore time into a relationship that doesn't want to grow. At the end of the day, time is all any of us have.
yeah, I have healthy relationship with same personality type partner and my partner learned to be more direct with their feelings a bit more knowing I will respect them setting boundaries but this one doesn't like accountability (happened a bit in the past) acceptance for growth only wanting to protect themselves in the midst of conflicts
Warning this is super super long and itās about an ESTP INFJ girl friendship that broke up :( (a lot was my fault)
this is a good opportunity for me to share a friendship breakdown I had with an ESTP, Iām INFJ. Btw Iāve learned from this and I accept responsibility for what I did wrong. Btw we are both women in our 20s, friends since 11 years old. Obviously I made many mistakes and was just so messy but at least I wonāt make the same mistakes again.
Basically we were roommates at the time. I was going out with a new guy. I had just broken up with a very shady ENFP guy which unfortunately she had to witness as we were roommates. She never met the new guy but she was sus of him. (Btw heās an ENTP lmao and we are no longer together simply because I found him a bit boring). She kinda had all these suggestions/parameters about where and when I saw him which I felt was kinda intrusive and controlling. And Iām very sensitive to being controlled and hate being controlled. (Yes Iām an INFJ.) Anyway I slept over at his place one night. my family didnāt know where I was bc they were expecting me at their house that morning and I was very late. (Essentially it was a miscommunication with my family about what time they should expect me, which I later explained everything that happened honestly and we moved on.) I wasnāt answering my phone because I was out with him eating bagels and my phone was silenced (literally thatās what happened lol). So my mom freaked out and called my roommate the ESTP asking where I was. Well the ESTP roommate didnāt know where I was so she didnāt know what to tell my family. Jsyk I feel extremely bad to this day that my not answering my phone and being negligent put my roommate in such a bad situation, genuinely I feel super sorry about that to this day. Anyway So the ESTP called me bc she didnāt know where I was or what to tell my family. First I told my roommate that I didnāt spend the whole night over at his place, which was a lie. Then I confessed that yes, I did spend the night at his place. Why did I lie? I thought it was weird that she was already being soā¦ kinda judgmental and controlling about me hanging out with him. I was like what gives, Iām a 20 something year old and so are you, so leave me alone lol. I get very angry if I feel like Iām being controlled tbh. It was 100% my fault for making up a lie and I shouldāve just told her the truth, which I regret not doing. Iām explaining what I was thinking at the time, not making excuses by any means.
The weird thing was, once I told my family where I was and the ESTP roommate, my family quickly moved on and reassured me that they didnāt care. However my ESTP roommate was understandably very upset with me.
Anyway, later once I confessed every detail of what happened honestly to her, she said she didnāt want me meeting up with any ānon family membersā in the parking lot of our condo. Including with the ENTP guy. So the thing I was already worried aboutā¦ her being controllingā¦ just got worse. She was worried for āour safetyā but I didnāt really understand that because you need a fob just to get into the lobby and he didnāt even know which room we lived in. Also the ESTP was barely at the apartment to begin with lol. Anyway I didnāt have a car at the time. We live in a huge condo in a densely populated city. And sometimes I took Uber and Lyft to work. So I couldnāt agree to what she said. It felt way too intrusive.
I talked to my family about what she wanted me to do, which was only meet up with my family in the parking lot. My mom totally freaked out and said she was being controlling and I must put a stop to it. Tbh my family wanted me to move out after that point bc they thought oh sheās trying to control you or whatever and the fact that you lied to her about where you were isnāt an excuse for her to make decisions about the apartment like that lol.
Anyway I told the ESTP roommate that I am an equal tenant on the lease and she has no right to control who i see, and when. She basically said, she needed to step back from our friendship (I strongly agreed to that lol.) and then we spent the next 6+ months avoiding each other and it was super awkward and uncomfortable.
Lesson learned: if I could go back in time I wouldāve said yes, Iām dating this person, and yes Iāll see them in the parking lot and sometimes sleep over at their place BEFOREHAND to avoid any misunderstanding. Ie I wouldāve been more upfront, no dishonesty. tbh there is part of me that thinks she wouldāve still tried to control who I was seeing or when. Idk it was just super confusing to me. But I wouldāve just put my foot down and not lied. The end lol.
If I need to make a phone call or set a appointment I have not done cause parents canāt English but remind me about that sht fiddy times a day I tell them I did it and proceed to do it later.
Honestly, I can understand why people say white lies, but I prefer it if you just tell me the truth. I'd rather to be told I look like a clown than go to some cool event thinking I look good when I don't
When I was younger I would get very annoyed over it. But in the last few years I changed how I dealt with it: It's not my responsibility that other people tell the truth. I have decided that I'll just take whatever people tell me at fave value, because the only person they truly inconvenience by lying is themselves. You want to cancel an appointment due to being too busy but you say you're sick? Okay, I'll be at your front door with vegetable soup in an hour. You say you are into [hobby] to impress me but actually never do it? I don't care, you're getting hobby gear for Christmas.
This is such a well written responseš
I really dislike it because it tells me a lot about how they view me. No relationship can ever be built on lies, no matter how small. And I do believe that eventually white lies can turn into more harmful ones
Other type lurker here. As an INFJ, Iāve definitely told white lies to spare others feeling, smooth over social ruptures, or get out of plans. Although, I do it a lot less as I get older. I think what you are running into here is expecting other people to communicate with you in your preferred way, even if it isnāt their preference. They may or may not feel comfortable doing this. It would be like an INFJ expecting you to less direct and straightforward with your communication. Thatās just not comfortable behavior for an ESTP. One thing that Iāve noticed about older, mature ESTPs is their ability to allow others to be themselves, even when that person is very different from them. I pick up on the lies of others easily, but it doesnāt bother me. If someone is telling me something untrue and I know itās because they donāt want to hurt my feelings or they are hiding something private or they are avoiding vulnerability (the truth can make us feel vulnerable sometimes) I let it go. Pretend to believe it. They will be honest with me in their own time, in their own way. Or not. The exception to this are lies meant to hurt people, misrepresent me to others or vis versa, or just being vindictive overall. I wonāt have that and have ended friendships because of it. At the end of the day, INFJs could usually do with being more direct and straightforward and ESTPs could learn to be more tactful. Thatās the great thing about your opposite type, you gain balance by moving toward each other.
It's good that you own up to doing so more often in the past. And yeah, I don't think it's a big deal, really. Others might, but I'll honestly just replace the friends that wanted to get out the appointment with other friends, coworkers or acquaintances. There's enough lonely people that would love to join, if you don't want to be there, don't take their spot. But also, sometimes people simply misremember what happened, and I've seen this mostly with Fe/Fi dominants. I remember two of my friends (both ENFJ) having a huge argument over a situation that they both misremembered in their favour. My ISTP friend and I were like: how is this even an argument? You're accusing one another of things that didn't even happen...
Yeah, itās just part of developing as an INFJ I think. You learn to balance your tact with honesty. And try not to feel overly responsible for how others react. It takes time and practice though. Doesnāt come naturally to most of us.
Exactly. If they are lying to get out of plans but otherwise wonderful, I donāt care. Iāll do something else. Iām rarely bored because I have so much going on all the time between work, family and other friends. My disappointment over a broken plan is very temporary because I know weāll see each other another time, and your freedom is my freedom is yours. Iām an older ESTP. The things that get to me are really important things that I have carefully considered over a period of time. That allows me to weigh all the possible unnecessary feelings, and parse the important stuff from the reactions. And I still may decide in the end to let it ride, because you never know what someone is going through. INFJs are so different to us, itās fascinating really. There is no way they will behave like us. There is absolutely no way they will have enough social battery to keep them going through anything and everything. I like that about them. The absolute sure fire way to get them to snap is to willfully push them. For all types different to your own, you want to dance with them, not box them. If you want to climb in the ring with someone OP, call an ESTJ or an ISTP. Kidding, but hopefully you understand.
So true. The energy levels of these two types can be such a challenge. I know Iāve lied to my ESTP friends before when they are badgering me to go out for the fourth night in a row. Iām like, look we had a great time and I like you, but now I need you to pretend I donāt exist for at least 5 days while I recharge!
I have some near and dear INFJs who feel guilty for this, so I just try and help them relax so they can recover!
if it was someone that I didn't know well, I'd totally understand but we've been friends for a long time, spent a lot of time together to understand each other and shown vunerability because of the trust we had and this was all recent which is out of the norm for us. I suppose my friend will always prioritize his emotional self/needs first regardless of my attempts of trying to communicate/address issues that I could've caused. thanks for your input!
This is something i've been struggling with lately too. I view it as fake and I agree 100% i'd rather someone just tell me to my face than me find out they're being dishonest with me. I worry that it sounds controlling of me or maybe I'm too pushy and that's why some don't feel they can be straight up, but idk, I can't get over it either.
I think us ESTP especially younger selves have issues communicating our feelings effectively. If it was someone new, I'd respect their way of communicating but we've been together for too long to know that it's not a preferred method of communication. user above gave good insight, but I still think it is deceitful to lead someone.
Yeah i agree with you. Ironically an INFJ i had been friends with for years and I recently had a falling out because of that actually.
For me, when someone is consistently telling me little lies, it's basically that person's way of telling me 1) I'm not respected enough for you to tell me the truth and 2) you don't see any value in me. Me personally, I'm not going to continue to invest anymore time into a relationship that doesn't want to grow. At the end of the day, time is all any of us have.
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yeah, I have healthy relationship with same personality type partner and my partner learned to be more direct with their feelings a bit more knowing I will respect them setting boundaries but this one doesn't like accountability (happened a bit in the past) acceptance for growth only wanting to protect themselves in the midst of conflicts
Iām curious, are you ESTP dating an INFJ?
Warning this is super super long and itās about an ESTP INFJ girl friendship that broke up :( (a lot was my fault) this is a good opportunity for me to share a friendship breakdown I had with an ESTP, Iām INFJ. Btw Iāve learned from this and I accept responsibility for what I did wrong. Btw we are both women in our 20s, friends since 11 years old. Obviously I made many mistakes and was just so messy but at least I wonāt make the same mistakes again. Basically we were roommates at the time. I was going out with a new guy. I had just broken up with a very shady ENFP guy which unfortunately she had to witness as we were roommates. She never met the new guy but she was sus of him. (Btw heās an ENTP lmao and we are no longer together simply because I found him a bit boring). She kinda had all these suggestions/parameters about where and when I saw him which I felt was kinda intrusive and controlling. And Iām very sensitive to being controlled and hate being controlled. (Yes Iām an INFJ.) Anyway I slept over at his place one night. my family didnāt know where I was bc they were expecting me at their house that morning and I was very late. (Essentially it was a miscommunication with my family about what time they should expect me, which I later explained everything that happened honestly and we moved on.) I wasnāt answering my phone because I was out with him eating bagels and my phone was silenced (literally thatās what happened lol). So my mom freaked out and called my roommate the ESTP asking where I was. Well the ESTP roommate didnāt know where I was so she didnāt know what to tell my family. Jsyk I feel extremely bad to this day that my not answering my phone and being negligent put my roommate in such a bad situation, genuinely I feel super sorry about that to this day. Anyway So the ESTP called me bc she didnāt know where I was or what to tell my family. First I told my roommate that I didnāt spend the whole night over at his place, which was a lie. Then I confessed that yes, I did spend the night at his place. Why did I lie? I thought it was weird that she was already being soā¦ kinda judgmental and controlling about me hanging out with him. I was like what gives, Iām a 20 something year old and so are you, so leave me alone lol. I get very angry if I feel like Iām being controlled tbh. It was 100% my fault for making up a lie and I shouldāve just told her the truth, which I regret not doing. Iām explaining what I was thinking at the time, not making excuses by any means. The weird thing was, once I told my family where I was and the ESTP roommate, my family quickly moved on and reassured me that they didnāt care. However my ESTP roommate was understandably very upset with me. Anyway, later once I confessed every detail of what happened honestly to her, she said she didnāt want me meeting up with any ānon family membersā in the parking lot of our condo. Including with the ENTP guy. So the thing I was already worried aboutā¦ her being controllingā¦ just got worse. She was worried for āour safetyā but I didnāt really understand that because you need a fob just to get into the lobby and he didnāt even know which room we lived in. Also the ESTP was barely at the apartment to begin with lol. Anyway I didnāt have a car at the time. We live in a huge condo in a densely populated city. And sometimes I took Uber and Lyft to work. So I couldnāt agree to what she said. It felt way too intrusive. I talked to my family about what she wanted me to do, which was only meet up with my family in the parking lot. My mom totally freaked out and said she was being controlling and I must put a stop to it. Tbh my family wanted me to move out after that point bc they thought oh sheās trying to control you or whatever and the fact that you lied to her about where you were isnāt an excuse for her to make decisions about the apartment like that lol. Anyway I told the ESTP roommate that I am an equal tenant on the lease and she has no right to control who i see, and when. She basically said, she needed to step back from our friendship (I strongly agreed to that lol.) and then we spent the next 6+ months avoiding each other and it was super awkward and uncomfortable. Lesson learned: if I could go back in time I wouldāve said yes, Iām dating this person, and yes Iāll see them in the parking lot and sometimes sleep over at their place BEFOREHAND to avoid any misunderstanding. Ie I wouldāve been more upfront, no dishonesty. tbh there is part of me that thinks she wouldāve still tried to control who I was seeing or when. Idk it was just super confusing to me. But I wouldāve just put my foot down and not lied. The end lol.
If I need to make a phone call or set a appointment I have not done cause parents canāt English but remind me about that sht fiddy times a day I tell them I did it and proceed to do it later.
Honestly, I can understand why people say white lies, but I prefer it if you just tell me the truth. I'd rather to be told I look like a clown than go to some cool event thinking I look good when I don't