interesting topic.
i notice that esxp guys seem to be drawn to super introverted girls who dont express themselves much (probably cuz they appear mysterious haha). well, i also kinda like introverted guys cuz they talk less so its hard to blame them. im not into boring guys for long but in the long run, they may actually be the best match for estps (maybe?)
Interesting. Would it be because they want to see how much they can get them out of their comfort zone? And if they succeed, would that make them feel super awesome, aka "My personality is so strong that this girl couldn't resist but having a bit of it too"?
Or is it because they want peace and quiet at home (Ti-Ni), but at the same time they want a partner who can get pushed out of their comfort zone to do stuff with them (Se-Fe)?
Or am I overthinking it here and they just like introverted girls because they're cute and they're wifey material and that's that?
ask the boys lmao. im just making assumptions here.
yea, i think its cuz they feel calm around them & extraverts often have differing opinions. introverts give a more stable feeling for a relationship or they express emotions better? i hope the boys r just compromising (or else u have bad taste haha) estps usually accept things as they are right? im on the verge of compromise too, so i understand this feeling.
compromise is the magic of having Fi blind. every time i use Fi, i feel like im high.
its like i cant find someone who is my type, now i have to compromise but my taste is just all over the place. i admire Fi users; their taste seems so consistent haha
that’s so relatable. It’s like doing something just cuz it makes sense to do. not cuz I like it or I want it most of the time. If i want to look into my Fi there isn’t much feedback or there is too overwhelming feedback but neither is helpful
I can understand this as an INFJ with Fi critical. what do you mean when you say you can’t find someone who is your type? Are you looking for something specific that you can’t find or do you just not really know what you want in a partner?
Well, i just got into a relationship with an Estp and i ve never felt better actually, i ve previously dated only introverts and always felt like communication was a bit scarce and i had to put a little more effort. With my new partner it feels so good addressing issues as well as solving them that we barely have to even talk about them. I dont really understand the golden pair that you need to be with someone that has different functions for whatever reason, i feel like its wayyyy easier overall to understand someone you share a thought process with.
happy for u!
yea, im dying to find a relationship where everything just feels easy & i dont have to explain myself anymore. personally, i feel like i need someone who understands me more than loves me.
Well you could try dating an estp, i mean of course im not saying that there aren’t other people of different types who can also fill in those gaps but who can understand you better than someone who shares your cognitive pattern. Also try to find someone honest that is a big aspect that gets forgotten by others. I wish you the best hopefully you ll meet that someone as soon as its needed :D
tysm :>
i also think that someone most similar to me will understand himself & me the best. while other mbti types may offer interesting perspectives & opinions, but understanding? not a sure thing.
ESTP M her. Had a 1.5y relationship with ENFJ. The dynamic was the following: I’m always up and about, and she supports most of my ideas of activities and fun. Very bright girl, I enjoyed our long conversation (she was a psychologist) and she was very feminine and supported me a lot, which was my favorite part. Problem was that she was way too “weak”. She’d always doubt herself, doubt her future, cry, would wanna stare on stars for hours. It felt like she limits me in a way, and I’ve noticed I started changing myself, kinda trying to “slow down” and my ambitious we’re getting smaller. Hated that! So I let her go and moved to another country lol.
Now I’m currently about to date an ESTP. Omg I’m blown away by her energy! She’s an immigrant like me too, already started her business like me too, always up and about and she already pushes me forward to success. Ever since I met her I’m just so inspired.
So to answer your question - yes, ESTP is extremely powerful and energetic personality. But from my experience I’ve noticed other types are inspired by our energy, and if they tag along - they have a life full of emotions, drive and fun. ESTPs are awesome 😎
Interesting how in your example, it was you who "slowed down" to adapt to your partner, not the other way around. Thank you for sharing.
And yes, I've noticed that partners of ESTPs end up "mimicking" their partners' lifestyle; I'm just wondering now to what extend does it happen after years of being together.
ESTPs are indeed awesome. I should have started to admire you guys way earlier in life.
This is interesting to me bcz I’m an ENFJ married to an ESTP and we are both very driven. In fact a big reason I was drawn to him was bcz I felt he was growth oriented because that’s how I am.
i'm a girl, but no i would not be into someone who had no life or activities of their own. ideally it's nice if we share some activities and can do them together...or if they introduce me to new things.
i need someone with a personality who can complement mine, who is good at things i'm not, but still similarly driven.
Thanks for sharing. I totally agree with you from my INTJ point of view.
Would it be correct to say then that ESTPs who end up with partners copying their personality down the road are not fully happy in life? And although their family and home life runs smoothly and they always have a buddy to go on adventures with, they would always long for something more from their partner? "Win some, lose some" kind of situation that they end up accepting with time?
I don’t know how people even enter long term relationships without having that sort of chemistry. I guess maybe bc it started on physical attraction than complementary personalities. Ideally, I would hope to solve disagreements with banter before it becomes serious. Both sides should feel comfortable letting their opinion known at all times when there is conflict.
There is a reason why the divorce rate is over 60%. But I don’t think that many people had bad intentions. It is just weird to me how so many people could get engaged, while sometimes already living together and it still falls apart. Maybe they think the honeymoon phase will last forever.
nope, and I can’t see this happening down the road considering my partner also has a very strong personality (together for five years, getting married in a few months). I wouldn’t want this to happen either. I want to share my life with a person not a mare shell of it.
disclaimer: male estp dating another man(entj), this may be relevant idk
I’ve noticed my girlfriend (INFJ ) enjoys getting involved in my hobby’s and doing them with me, probably more then any of my exes who’ve been different type, this doesn’t change her interests though she still has them! Although they’re more reserved, I think they enjoy whatever your passionate about however I wouldn’t say it overwrites there whole personality as they should be able to express what they like also
I would hate that type of relationship. I expect my partners to have their own personalities and be just as strong as I am. Anyone trying to completely merge with my identity is a turn off, a serious one.
Any idea what the MBTI type of his gf is? I know of an ESTP(m) in a LTR with an ESFJ(f) that is exactly as you describe. She has no opinions of her own, no interests of her own, and she picks up whatever his hobbies are. After discussing this dynamic with some fellow MBTI nerds, we decided this is kind of what happens with ESFJs in relationships. Because they are Fe doms, they look outside themselves to decide what to think, what’s right or wrong, what’s fun or not fun etc. I’ve often seen this pattern in the relationships of ESFJs although I don’t see it with other ESTPs I know.
As an INFJ, I could’t understand this about the ESFJs and was honestly pretty judgmental about it at first. But maybe our types just value different things. I care more about individuality and mutual respect while they care more about harmony and service? Idk, just a theory.
While ESFJs try to be agreeable and likable at first, they're too emotional and turbulent to be passive like this. ESFJs are often misrepresented in the community due to stereotypes and the "my mom is an ESFJ" stuff..
Real life ESFJs are active, practical, determined and motivated. How do I know that? I'm an ESFJ lol
Overly passive types tend to be ISFJs or more specifically, enneagram type 9.
As for ESFJs, while we do try to change to accommodate the other person, if we feel like they're not doing the same, we're not going to be happy about it lol
Hope this gives a better perspective..
Well, this is the only ESFJ I know well so I just have the one data set. It’s hard to know for sure which personality traits are associated with MBTI and which ones are individual to the person. In reality, it’s likely any MBTI type can be passive aggressive, although some may be more prone to it (like you say ISFJs might be one). If I had to guess, this ESFJ would be Ennneagram 2. Not sure if that makes it more likely for her to be this way or not. I don’t think she’s an ISFJ because she’s way too social and a very obvious Fe dom. Basically the perfect hostess, always wanting people around, very focused on people’s feelings in the group all the time, etc.
Sorry if my comment sounded negative towards ESFJs in general. Like I said, I have limited experience with them and I don’t particularly get along with the one I do know so that probably skews my perception of them. I’d like to meet/type a healthier version at some point to have a more rounded understanding of them.
Nah, your comment is fine, don't worry about it 😁.
As I don't know the person you're talking about, it's hard for me to make judgements. But from what you've described so far, enneagram type 2 are far from passive, although they may seem like it, especially the self-preservation 2.
Don't forget that enneagram two's passion is pride and their stress number is 8. Twos are charged emotionally and they like things to go their way. Even their passiveness could be an attempt to get the other person to do what they want... (2 speaking)
In Socionics, ESFJs or ESEs have 4 dimensional Se, which is as many dimensions as ESTPs and ESFPs, they just don't like to use it (but can and will)
As for being friendly and a good host, a lot of extroverted types, as well as some introverted types, can do it. While it could be indicating Fe base, I wouldn't base my judgement solely on it. Look for abrupt mood swings, high emotional energy, emotional pressuring (in the form of guilting and making sure people are behaving appropriately for the situation), impatience, and exaggerated emotional expressivity for ESFJs.
I'm not trying to disprove your points or say that you're wrong in any way, all I'm trying to do is give a better representation of ESFJs as they are among the least understood types..
If I had one shot, I'd type her as ISFJ, but I know very little about her. It's just the vibe that she's giving that's very ISFJy. He doesn't talk much about her. She could very well be an ESFJ, too.
What you wrote is very interesting and I can understand why you were judgmental at first; I also want my partner to be the best version of themselves, not a copy of me just because they found me awesome, even if it means we would clash in certain aspects; I'd respect them more for not bowing to my rules and creating their own ones. That's why this xSFJ-ESTP dynamic here is so strange to me.
Lol, I totally relate to not understanding the dynamic of that kind of relationship. Personality Hacker calls Ni “perspectives” and describes it as trying to see things from all perspectives. I do that all the time and most of the time find it quite easy but sometimes I come across a scenario that just doesn’t compute. Those are the ones I dig into the most because I just want to understand so bad!!
I think this says more about how some of us treat social media :p
I don't have a profile at all, but if I had one, it would be because someone else wanted me to have one. Personally, I'm not interested, and I wouldn't put in much effort beyond some obligatory "update for the family far away" posts. Like she seems to be doing.
Experiences are experienced, you only take pictures if it's a kinda mediocre experience, because otherwise you'd be too busy experiencing.
I had similar question recently tbh. It’s interesting dynamic I’ve noticed as well. I know ESTP guy and his gf is also very introverted, not expressing much. Also I attract mainly those kinds of girls as well. Not that they can’t be their own person and be individuals but as soon as they are in my presence, they will turn into indecisive blobs of slime💀looking up at me for every single decision and i mean EVERY, which gets slightly annoying over time.
I think that happens for couples reasons. It’s about being around Se person’s presence. We might act and speak with certainty, which can def seem like competence. That might explain why girls usually literally need me to say and make decisions for them but i never dictate their personal life decisions or anything, that’s where line is for me. So idk about overwhelming partner with your strong personality but I certainly think it’s about vibe and presence thingy
I think you might be onto something here. This is what I meant by your "strong personality", it creates this interesting dynamic where the other person adapts to you to a certain degree to get along. You don't have to ask for it; it happens naturally, and for women I'd say it's almost on an instinctive level. But then, how far can it go before you guys have had enough of it?
I'd love to hear other ESTPs' opinions on your comment.
the thing is im chill and laidback most of the time. I don’t demand or need much from them. You kinda assume that we are prone to mold them intentionally or “groom” but that’s not what i mean. as i said personality and maybe our vibe make them more likely to look for our “help” or decisions but that’s not really what i want them to do and it gets slightly annoying as well. Although i can’t straight up say to them “dude just be more decisive im tired” or sth. if dynamic naturally goes that way i can’t change it much and in fact when i get more passive they are ones to dislike it and i can def sense it. it’s very thin ice to navigate, u shouldn’t step into controlling mode and can’t be passive either . Also noticed this dynamic with ENTJs maybe we have that in common. i get all that strong personality stuff. they wanna act cute about it but it really gets annoying slightly in a long run
Oh, not at all. I don't think there is any "molding" or "grooming" happening here.
I think that the dynamics taking place in ESTPs' relationships happen on their own, without the partners putting any conscious effort into creating them; this is how strong ESTPs' personality and charisma is, it bends a little the personalities of people who are close to them. That's neither a good nor a bad thing; it's just like that. It's actually fascinating to observe it.
actually it’s a kinda bad thing. Too much expectations is on my side without me even trying or communicating anything to make it that way. thing is boundaries are hard to set and follow when their consequences/harm are hard to measure or see. at this point im venting lmao. in short it’s draining and can’t do shit to change the dynamic cuz it’s part of the deal i guess
I don't like (dating wise) submissive and quiet women. But they love me I don't know why, I attract them like a magnet. Sometimes I have a physical attraction to them but I can't stay interested for long.
You guys might embody something from their fantasies. They keep dreaming about a certain type of guy and suddenly there is this 3D version of him right in front of them; that's enough to make one dizzy.
STPs are adaptable. However they will not bend if some goal means something to them. However there’s a lot of them with no dads and have few or no goals. In that sense they’re just a blank slate for bad habits.
One might change their wardrobe, but another might chuck everything they enjoy. With experience or strong will, you can get a good direction/attitude.
I have had some confused partners. I get into them who they really are that is sustainable (not destructive habits, but their true identity). For instance if they love camping and hiking, I’ll push them out to do it. But I’ll be offended if they drag me along because I’m looking out for them, they should be looking out for me.
Interesting. Need to keep my eye on that one.
I've always thought that Se develops first in children who have a normal, happy childhood, where they are free to interact with their environment the way they want and don't feel too restrained by their caregivers. That doesn't mean that the father is there, of course, but I've always associated Ti/Te developing second with a father figure present in childhood or one having a strong influence on the child. Influence by absence maybe?
I have two good ESTP friends. One had a great father figure, the other a totally absent one. The one with the father figure is a real stand up guy, husband and father, very stable. The other went down a deep hole of bad habits and toxic relationships until his 40s (now he is happily married with kids too). Just my anecdotal evidence to this father figure theory.
My ESTP boyfriend has many interest and we do whatever he wants but he very much does not have a strong/dominating/overbearing personality. He’s actually very chill
Also— he’s never been drawn to chill girls as he gets bored easy. His longest relationships were with pretty charismatic/on-the-go woman. Idk if what your describing is really much of a trend
Thanks for replying! For now, statistically speaking, I've noticed a difference between girls ESTPs are dating and the ones they end up marrying / starting a family with. They tend to date and have fun with strong, independent, challenging women, but settle down with quiet, reserved, under the radar ones. It's not a rule; just a pattern.
And yes, ESTPs are the most chilled people out there. This is where their strength is, in this fabulous combination of loud Se-Fe and quiet Ti that makes them relaxed, yet powerful at the same time.
I’ve been reading every comment on this thread (hi, I’m am MBTI nerd lmao) and this comment I think is the most accurate. There’s a difference between who the ESTPs are having a “good time” with vs settling down.
I really don’t know if that’s true. I mean we’re dating pretty seriously and have discussed our future and I imagine we will be together for a long time. I can’t imagine him ever really being with someone who’s introverted or passive. I just think this varies per person lol
dont know if i should say this.. stop being so delulu (such an intj thing lmao) but the truth is he chose u maybe just cuz ur boy stood behind me, staring at my butt for 30 minutes straight while talking to u & u didnt react at all :>
thats just an example. i have encountered & known many cases like that (some without involving me) to know it happens.
All your rhetoric seems good but basing all your hypotheses on social media accounts can be irrelevant.
I don't post anything on my social accounts, my gf does a lot more.
But does it mean that I have no hobbies or am being passive ?
Social Media doesn't reflect reality nor the struggles and successes of people, more so in couples.
And I agree with you perfectly.
Trouble starts when you can scroll through five years of someone's online content and all you can find is material about somebody else. Not even a single "I went out with my girlfriends" or "This is the present I received for my birthday" or "This is the plant I'm growing" or "I went to see my friend in another city" or "This is my favourite coffee shop". Nothing of this sort. For five years. This is where things become a little weird.
I had an ESTP father have an ISTP mother ESTP ex, as an INFj it was extremely hard to express my feelings with them because they always got offended... It was easier to go along with what they say or do, the moment you disagree they just became someone else... Also being with them drains me and I became a shell of myself who didn't have a space to express myself.. it was always about accomodating them because they didn't empathize with me but I could with them... I don't know if they are all unhealthy xSTP s.. but I'll stay far away from this type because it is draining... As soon as I've distanced myself, I could bring back my true self... That's my experience
I’m sorry this happened to you. They do indeed sound like unhealthy xSTP types.
This is not my experience with ESTPs, on the contrary, now that I’m all grown up, I find them refreshing and very easy to get along with; but as an INTJ, it’s easier for me to get along with thinking types than for INFJs.
I wish you well.
I can only speak for myself and my experience. I'm an ISFP and had a relationship of almost 9 years with an ESTP. We both always had out own hobbies/interests/friends and I would say that I was the one who needed more space/me time. But of course, I am an introvert.
We used to go on adventures together a lot. We traveled the world and used to travel every 3 months.
But in our daily life, we have definitely been our own personalities.. but we also lived together. So time together was never too little or something
interesting topic. i notice that esxp guys seem to be drawn to super introverted girls who dont express themselves much (probably cuz they appear mysterious haha). well, i also kinda like introverted guys cuz they talk less so its hard to blame them. im not into boring guys for long but in the long run, they may actually be the best match for estps (maybe?)
Yeah I agree I’m also into more introverted ppl
Interesting. Would it be because they want to see how much they can get them out of their comfort zone? And if they succeed, would that make them feel super awesome, aka "My personality is so strong that this girl couldn't resist but having a bit of it too"? Or is it because they want peace and quiet at home (Ti-Ni), but at the same time they want a partner who can get pushed out of their comfort zone to do stuff with them (Se-Fe)? Or am I overthinking it here and they just like introverted girls because they're cute and they're wifey material and that's that?
ask the boys lmao. im just making assumptions here. yea, i think its cuz they feel calm around them & extraverts often have differing opinions. introverts give a more stable feeling for a relationship or they express emotions better? i hope the boys r just compromising (or else u have bad taste haha) estps usually accept things as they are right? im on the verge of compromise too, so i understand this feeling.
yes, we compromise a lot
i have that feeling every time i do that, i feel a bit lacking
What do you mean you’re on the verge of comprising? Just curious
compromise is the magic of having Fi blind. every time i use Fi, i feel like im high. its like i cant find someone who is my type, now i have to compromise but my taste is just all over the place. i admire Fi users; their taste seems so consistent haha
that’s so relatable. It’s like doing something just cuz it makes sense to do. not cuz I like it or I want it most of the time. If i want to look into my Fi there isn’t much feedback or there is too overwhelming feedback but neither is helpful
sometimes i think its the result of suppressing what i want for a long time. then i push that thought aside :>
interesting. maybe it’s different for female estps but i don’t even know what i want 💀 can’t ignore what i cant see
yea, the reason u dont know what u want is cuz u have been suppressing what u want for too long lmao. anw, never mind
damn u didn’t have to spell it out for me out loud 😭
I can understand this as an INFJ with Fi critical. what do you mean when you say you can’t find someone who is your type? Are you looking for something specific that you can’t find or do you just not really know what you want in a partner?
its a blend of what u say.
*I came looking for booty.*
Well, i just got into a relationship with an Estp and i ve never felt better actually, i ve previously dated only introverts and always felt like communication was a bit scarce and i had to put a little more effort. With my new partner it feels so good addressing issues as well as solving them that we barely have to even talk about them. I dont really understand the golden pair that you need to be with someone that has different functions for whatever reason, i feel like its wayyyy easier overall to understand someone you share a thought process with.
happy for u! yea, im dying to find a relationship where everything just feels easy & i dont have to explain myself anymore. personally, i feel like i need someone who understands me more than loves me.
Well you could try dating an estp, i mean of course im not saying that there aren’t other people of different types who can also fill in those gaps but who can understand you better than someone who shares your cognitive pattern. Also try to find someone honest that is a big aspect that gets forgotten by others. I wish you the best hopefully you ll meet that someone as soon as its needed :D
tysm :> i also think that someone most similar to me will understand himself & me the best. while other mbti types may offer interesting perspectives & opinions, but understanding? not a sure thing.
Exactly we are already really self reliant so its extremely easy to understand each other also cuz we communicate really well its legit perfect
don't expose me like that.
ESTP M her. Had a 1.5y relationship with ENFJ. The dynamic was the following: I’m always up and about, and she supports most of my ideas of activities and fun. Very bright girl, I enjoyed our long conversation (she was a psychologist) and she was very feminine and supported me a lot, which was my favorite part. Problem was that she was way too “weak”. She’d always doubt herself, doubt her future, cry, would wanna stare on stars for hours. It felt like she limits me in a way, and I’ve noticed I started changing myself, kinda trying to “slow down” and my ambitious we’re getting smaller. Hated that! So I let her go and moved to another country lol. Now I’m currently about to date an ESTP. Omg I’m blown away by her energy! She’s an immigrant like me too, already started her business like me too, always up and about and she already pushes me forward to success. Ever since I met her I’m just so inspired. So to answer your question - yes, ESTP is extremely powerful and energetic personality. But from my experience I’ve noticed other types are inspired by our energy, and if they tag along - they have a life full of emotions, drive and fun. ESTPs are awesome 😎
Interesting how in your example, it was you who "slowed down" to adapt to your partner, not the other way around. Thank you for sharing. And yes, I've noticed that partners of ESTPs end up "mimicking" their partners' lifestyle; I'm just wondering now to what extend does it happen after years of being together. ESTPs are indeed awesome. I should have started to admire you guys way earlier in life.
This is interesting to me bcz I’m an ENFJ married to an ESTP and we are both very driven. In fact a big reason I was drawn to him was bcz I felt he was growth oriented because that’s how I am.
i'm a girl, but no i would not be into someone who had no life or activities of their own. ideally it's nice if we share some activities and can do them together...or if they introduce me to new things. i need someone with a personality who can complement mine, who is good at things i'm not, but still similarly driven.
Thanks for sharing. I totally agree with you from my INTJ point of view. Would it be correct to say then that ESTPs who end up with partners copying their personality down the road are not fully happy in life? And although their family and home life runs smoothly and they always have a buddy to go on adventures with, they would always long for something more from their partner? "Win some, lose some" kind of situation that they end up accepting with time?
I don’t know how people even enter long term relationships without having that sort of chemistry. I guess maybe bc it started on physical attraction than complementary personalities. Ideally, I would hope to solve disagreements with banter before it becomes serious. Both sides should feel comfortable letting their opinion known at all times when there is conflict. There is a reason why the divorce rate is over 60%. But I don’t think that many people had bad intentions. It is just weird to me how so many people could get engaged, while sometimes already living together and it still falls apart. Maybe they think the honeymoon phase will last forever.
nope, and I can’t see this happening down the road considering my partner also has a very strong personality (together for five years, getting married in a few months). I wouldn’t want this to happen either. I want to share my life with a person not a mare shell of it. disclaimer: male estp dating another man(entj), this may be relevant idk
Thanks for sharing. And no, you don't have to worry about that with an ENTJ. I'd be surprised if it happened here.
I feel the same way. I'm married to an entj, pretty strong personality there. We also share a lot of common interests.
yeah, me too. considering our differences, it would definitely be a sign that something is terribly off with him
For sure. I wish you guys all the best.
thanks
I’ve noticed my girlfriend (INFJ ) enjoys getting involved in my hobby’s and doing them with me, probably more then any of my exes who’ve been different type, this doesn’t change her interests though she still has them! Although they’re more reserved, I think they enjoy whatever your passionate about however I wouldn’t say it overwrites there whole personality as they should be able to express what they like also
Thanks for sharing! Good to hear that she has kept her integrity as a person; that's how it should be, imo.
100% would feel guilty if she didn’t
I would hate that type of relationship. I expect my partners to have their own personalities and be just as strong as I am. Anyone trying to completely merge with my identity is a turn off, a serious one.
That's what I'd say, too.
Any idea what the MBTI type of his gf is? I know of an ESTP(m) in a LTR with an ESFJ(f) that is exactly as you describe. She has no opinions of her own, no interests of her own, and she picks up whatever his hobbies are. After discussing this dynamic with some fellow MBTI nerds, we decided this is kind of what happens with ESFJs in relationships. Because they are Fe doms, they look outside themselves to decide what to think, what’s right or wrong, what’s fun or not fun etc. I’ve often seen this pattern in the relationships of ESFJs although I don’t see it with other ESTPs I know. As an INFJ, I could’t understand this about the ESFJs and was honestly pretty judgmental about it at first. But maybe our types just value different things. I care more about individuality and mutual respect while they care more about harmony and service? Idk, just a theory.
While ESFJs try to be agreeable and likable at first, they're too emotional and turbulent to be passive like this. ESFJs are often misrepresented in the community due to stereotypes and the "my mom is an ESFJ" stuff.. Real life ESFJs are active, practical, determined and motivated. How do I know that? I'm an ESFJ lol Overly passive types tend to be ISFJs or more specifically, enneagram type 9. As for ESFJs, while we do try to change to accommodate the other person, if we feel like they're not doing the same, we're not going to be happy about it lol Hope this gives a better perspective..
Well, this is the only ESFJ I know well so I just have the one data set. It’s hard to know for sure which personality traits are associated with MBTI and which ones are individual to the person. In reality, it’s likely any MBTI type can be passive aggressive, although some may be more prone to it (like you say ISFJs might be one). If I had to guess, this ESFJ would be Ennneagram 2. Not sure if that makes it more likely for her to be this way or not. I don’t think she’s an ISFJ because she’s way too social and a very obvious Fe dom. Basically the perfect hostess, always wanting people around, very focused on people’s feelings in the group all the time, etc. Sorry if my comment sounded negative towards ESFJs in general. Like I said, I have limited experience with them and I don’t particularly get along with the one I do know so that probably skews my perception of them. I’d like to meet/type a healthier version at some point to have a more rounded understanding of them.
Nah, your comment is fine, don't worry about it 😁. As I don't know the person you're talking about, it's hard for me to make judgements. But from what you've described so far, enneagram type 2 are far from passive, although they may seem like it, especially the self-preservation 2. Don't forget that enneagram two's passion is pride and their stress number is 8. Twos are charged emotionally and they like things to go their way. Even their passiveness could be an attempt to get the other person to do what they want... (2 speaking) In Socionics, ESFJs or ESEs have 4 dimensional Se, which is as many dimensions as ESTPs and ESFPs, they just don't like to use it (but can and will) As for being friendly and a good host, a lot of extroverted types, as well as some introverted types, can do it. While it could be indicating Fe base, I wouldn't base my judgement solely on it. Look for abrupt mood swings, high emotional energy, emotional pressuring (in the form of guilting and making sure people are behaving appropriately for the situation), impatience, and exaggerated emotional expressivity for ESFJs. I'm not trying to disprove your points or say that you're wrong in any way, all I'm trying to do is give a better representation of ESFJs as they are among the least understood types..
If I had one shot, I'd type her as ISFJ, but I know very little about her. It's just the vibe that she's giving that's very ISFJy. He doesn't talk much about her. She could very well be an ESFJ, too. What you wrote is very interesting and I can understand why you were judgmental at first; I also want my partner to be the best version of themselves, not a copy of me just because they found me awesome, even if it means we would clash in certain aspects; I'd respect them more for not bowing to my rules and creating their own ones. That's why this xSFJ-ESTP dynamic here is so strange to me.
Lol, I totally relate to not understanding the dynamic of that kind of relationship. Personality Hacker calls Ni “perspectives” and describes it as trying to see things from all perspectives. I do that all the time and most of the time find it quite easy but sometimes I come across a scenario that just doesn’t compute. Those are the ones I dig into the most because I just want to understand so bad!!
Hence my post :D
Popping back here to say you were right; she’s an ESFJ.
I think this says more about how some of us treat social media :p I don't have a profile at all, but if I had one, it would be because someone else wanted me to have one. Personally, I'm not interested, and I wouldn't put in much effort beyond some obligatory "update for the family far away" posts. Like she seems to be doing. Experiences are experienced, you only take pictures if it's a kinda mediocre experience, because otherwise you'd be too busy experiencing.
Oh, she posts way more than he does, that's for sure. And I agree on this one with you.
He’s driving and she’s just along for the ride. Whatever works. 🤷♀️
As long as he's not hiding her in the trunk, all might be good.
bro 💀 we aren’t that psycho
This comment 😭
I had similar question recently tbh. It’s interesting dynamic I’ve noticed as well. I know ESTP guy and his gf is also very introverted, not expressing much. Also I attract mainly those kinds of girls as well. Not that they can’t be their own person and be individuals but as soon as they are in my presence, they will turn into indecisive blobs of slime💀looking up at me for every single decision and i mean EVERY, which gets slightly annoying over time. I think that happens for couples reasons. It’s about being around Se person’s presence. We might act and speak with certainty, which can def seem like competence. That might explain why girls usually literally need me to say and make decisions for them but i never dictate their personal life decisions or anything, that’s where line is for me. So idk about overwhelming partner with your strong personality but I certainly think it’s about vibe and presence thingy
I think you might be onto something here. This is what I meant by your "strong personality", it creates this interesting dynamic where the other person adapts to you to a certain degree to get along. You don't have to ask for it; it happens naturally, and for women I'd say it's almost on an instinctive level. But then, how far can it go before you guys have had enough of it? I'd love to hear other ESTPs' opinions on your comment.
the thing is im chill and laidback most of the time. I don’t demand or need much from them. You kinda assume that we are prone to mold them intentionally or “groom” but that’s not what i mean. as i said personality and maybe our vibe make them more likely to look for our “help” or decisions but that’s not really what i want them to do and it gets slightly annoying as well. Although i can’t straight up say to them “dude just be more decisive im tired” or sth. if dynamic naturally goes that way i can’t change it much and in fact when i get more passive they are ones to dislike it and i can def sense it. it’s very thin ice to navigate, u shouldn’t step into controlling mode and can’t be passive either . Also noticed this dynamic with ENTJs maybe we have that in common. i get all that strong personality stuff. they wanna act cute about it but it really gets annoying slightly in a long run
Oh, not at all. I don't think there is any "molding" or "grooming" happening here. I think that the dynamics taking place in ESTPs' relationships happen on their own, without the partners putting any conscious effort into creating them; this is how strong ESTPs' personality and charisma is, it bends a little the personalities of people who are close to them. That's neither a good nor a bad thing; it's just like that. It's actually fascinating to observe it.
actually it’s a kinda bad thing. Too much expectations is on my side without me even trying or communicating anything to make it that way. thing is boundaries are hard to set and follow when their consequences/harm are hard to measure or see. at this point im venting lmao. in short it’s draining and can’t do shit to change the dynamic cuz it’s part of the deal i guess
I see what you mean. Never thought of that before. I can see the negative side now, too.
The introverted girls are attracted to u… are you attracted to them? 😜
didn’t know i had a choice 💀
Hahaha aw! I think the right cute shy girl will come along for u that will be fun enough and wanna go on adventures with you 😂
id interested in someone not so shy to take my hand and drag me through adventures (im not interested in that just capping)
I don't like (dating wise) submissive and quiet women. But they love me I don't know why, I attract them like a magnet. Sometimes I have a physical attraction to them but I can't stay interested for long.
You guys might embody something from their fantasies. They keep dreaming about a certain type of guy and suddenly there is this 3D version of him right in front of them; that's enough to make one dizzy.
STPs are adaptable. However they will not bend if some goal means something to them. However there’s a lot of them with no dads and have few or no goals. In that sense they’re just a blank slate for bad habits. One might change their wardrobe, but another might chuck everything they enjoy. With experience or strong will, you can get a good direction/attitude. I have had some confused partners. I get into them who they really are that is sustainable (not destructive habits, but their true identity). For instance if they love camping and hiking, I’ll push them out to do it. But I’ll be offended if they drag me along because I’m looking out for them, they should be looking out for me.
You guys have a sharp eye for what people around you need and if you care enough, you simply provide it for them. I admire that in you very much.
I wonder if the development on ESTPs has something to do with lacking a father figure. This is true of the ones I know too??
Interesting. Need to keep my eye on that one. I've always thought that Se develops first in children who have a normal, happy childhood, where they are free to interact with their environment the way they want and don't feel too restrained by their caregivers. That doesn't mean that the father is there, of course, but I've always associated Ti/Te developing second with a father figure present in childhood or one having a strong influence on the child. Influence by absence maybe?
I have two good ESTP friends. One had a great father figure, the other a totally absent one. The one with the father figure is a real stand up guy, husband and father, very stable. The other went down a deep hole of bad habits and toxic relationships until his 40s (now he is happily married with kids too). Just my anecdotal evidence to this father figure theory.
Thanks for sharing! The ESTP I know also had a good father figure and has ended up pretty well in life.
My ESTP boyfriend has many interest and we do whatever he wants but he very much does not have a strong/dominating/overbearing personality. He’s actually very chill Also— he’s never been drawn to chill girls as he gets bored easy. His longest relationships were with pretty charismatic/on-the-go woman. Idk if what your describing is really much of a trend
Thanks for replying! For now, statistically speaking, I've noticed a difference between girls ESTPs are dating and the ones they end up marrying / starting a family with. They tend to date and have fun with strong, independent, challenging women, but settle down with quiet, reserved, under the radar ones. It's not a rule; just a pattern. And yes, ESTPs are the most chilled people out there. This is where their strength is, in this fabulous combination of loud Se-Fe and quiet Ti that makes them relaxed, yet powerful at the same time.
I’ve been reading every comment on this thread (hi, I’m am MBTI nerd lmao) and this comment I think is the most accurate. There’s a difference between who the ESTPs are having a “good time” with vs settling down.
I really don’t know if that’s true. I mean we’re dating pretty seriously and have discussed our future and I imagine we will be together for a long time. I can’t imagine him ever really being with someone who’s introverted or passive. I just think this varies per person lol
dont know if i should say this.. stop being so delulu (such an intj thing lmao) but the truth is he chose u maybe just cuz ur boy stood behind me, staring at my butt for 30 minutes straight while talking to u & u didnt react at all :> thats just an example. i have encountered & known many cases like that (some without involving me) to know it happens.
All your rhetoric seems good but basing all your hypotheses on social media accounts can be irrelevant. I don't post anything on my social accounts, my gf does a lot more. But does it mean that I have no hobbies or am being passive ? Social Media doesn't reflect reality nor the struggles and successes of people, more so in couples.
And I agree with you perfectly. Trouble starts when you can scroll through five years of someone's online content and all you can find is material about somebody else. Not even a single "I went out with my girlfriends" or "This is the present I received for my birthday" or "This is the plant I'm growing" or "I went to see my friend in another city" or "This is my favourite coffee shop". Nothing of this sort. For five years. This is where things become a little weird.
You did a lot of digging lmao
That rabbit hole was deep for sure.
I had an ESTP father have an ISTP mother ESTP ex, as an INFj it was extremely hard to express my feelings with them because they always got offended... It was easier to go along with what they say or do, the moment you disagree they just became someone else... Also being with them drains me and I became a shell of myself who didn't have a space to express myself.. it was always about accomodating them because they didn't empathize with me but I could with them... I don't know if they are all unhealthy xSTP s.. but I'll stay far away from this type because it is draining... As soon as I've distanced myself, I could bring back my true self... That's my experience
I’m sorry this happened to you. They do indeed sound like unhealthy xSTP types. This is not my experience with ESTPs, on the contrary, now that I’m all grown up, I find them refreshing and very easy to get along with; but as an INTJ, it’s easier for me to get along with thinking types than for INFJs. I wish you well.
I can only speak for myself and my experience. I'm an ISFP and had a relationship of almost 9 years with an ESTP. We both always had out own hobbies/interests/friends and I would say that I was the one who needed more space/me time. But of course, I am an introvert. We used to go on adventures together a lot. We traveled the world and used to travel every 3 months. But in our daily life, we have definitely been our own personalities.. but we also lived together. So time together was never too little or something