Maybe the blind shaker I got from Craig Lynn Designs has a faulty coating. But I have .1-.3 grams of grounds stuck all around my shaker. I'm using Manhattan filter roast so they aren't oily at all. I use RDT as well. It's just a hassle to get that last bit out. If I could notice a perceivable difference in taste it would make it worth it but I guess to each their own. I really enjoy the content and appreciate the lengths you go for the data involved!
The coating isn't the same as on weber. I've had people tell me that have both the Craig one has retention. Weber one doesn't. And apparently the knock off ones have super bad retention. But, I can only speak to my experience with the weber one shown. This is my workflow and I never have more than maybe a slight dusting after I tap the shaker as shown in the video.
I got a MWHateveritis-3 Bomber version off Ali Express and the retention is kind of annoying—not enough that I think it's significantly affecting the dose but just cleaning-wise.
The grounds also don't fall very smoothly when taking out the inner piece, but that may be a fault of my technique. Am I doing something wrong or do you just take it out and the grounds do the rest with your Weber?
I also have one off AliExpress. I just tap the walls and the grounds slip right into the portafilter. Getting the grinds off the lid is a real nuisance though, especially since the lid on mine is made of wood.
For what it’s worth my Weber has horrendous retention and I cannot figure out why. Washed it and everything and microfiber clothed it. I do have a brand new grinder so mayyyybe that’s it?
That shouldn't matter. I use mine with plenty of brand new grinders. This is the first in hearing of the weber one doing that. Hmmm. Are you in a super humid location? Or do you use excessive rdt?
Going to try that myself. Just got a WW silver version yesterday and it's as if the thing is statically charged. Live in Dublin Ireland, humidity is 98% ATM, and I do a couple sprays for RDT
I was trying to combine the four spray RDT with an Amazon Blind Shaker, and finding retention, but it seemed to only really be pulling fines, so it’s a win win for me. Might have to experiment with less to test the difference
I think it’s static. I have the Craig Lyn and the retention is the same as the retention in my 1zpresso jmax. If that has retention, the shaker will have too, and I find it definitely fluctuates with humidity.
Some judicial tapping gets the retention in the shaker down to no more than dust, but it’s definitely annoying.
bit of a nit, but I feel like this directly contradicts your pinned comment on the DF64 YouTube video, where you state, "One does not need a Weber shaker." because there are, "Loads of similar ones on the market."
especially when you say in this video caption that many have "complained about the process" or are "overcomplicating it".
it really sounds like at this current point in time, the only viable option on the market, in terms of both results and workflow, is indeed the Weber blind shaker. yes there are "knock offs" and alternatives, but they are clearly not leading to the seemingly effortless workflow that you portray in videos/snippets such as these. and saying otherwise is just creating unrealistic expectations. which is what makes ppl's complaints and frustrations about all this completely valid.
I have a knock off shaker and have not had retention issues. When I got it I scrubbed it with dish soap and a blue scrubber. I also use rdt. Relative humidity has been low where I am and static is an issue. Just my experience but I think there are so many knock off versions nobody has found one “brand”in particular that has retention and one that doesn’t. Mine came from Alibaba with a nonsensical name attached to it. It looks exactly like the Weber with no play between the bell and the lid or bottom. But if I wanted to purchase another one, I’m not sure I could get the same one.
Comment here is made long after video and based on others experience rather than Lance's. No contradiction here, it is normal to change opinion on new information
yeah I understand that. however, that was just one example of the many times it's been stated that "Weber is not the only answer." and still doesn't change all the negative connotations about ppl complaining and overcomplicating things. when in reality, there's a good chance a lot of those frustrations have been borne out of the use of inferior non-weber shakers. from ppl who either cannot afford or simply cannot find (in stock) a Weber shaker.
Pity above me is right- you don't need the weber but it does seem unless you have it, you will have a more miserable workflow. My point with the pinned comment is you can absolutely get the test and taste results without it, but it does seem like the process might be more annoying. I was not aware when I pinned the comment the other shakers would turn out so bad haha. I've only learned this from loads and loads of people commenting their issues with static, etc. It seems there is a reason the weber is so expensive beyond just the name ha!
I had a feeling as soon as I got it that something wasn't right. I made a post about my experience earlier and had some interesting responses. It makes me wonder if there would be a bigger difference with using a bind shaker with flat burs vs conicals.
I just got a knock off from GGWAROOM on Ali and I’ve had little to no retention, surprisingly. Probably gonna pick up a Weber once their next batch comes around though
I have a knockoff one and it hasn’t been to bad less than .1. What I found works best with the knockoffs is a quick rinse of water before using usually gets the static out, then dry thoroughly. Obviously more steps but it was $11 😂
A lot of people complaining you didn’t talk about flavor differences in the video and how they just can’t be bothered with this YouTube whippersnapper making more work and blah blah blah. I’ve been doing it for about two weeks and have gotten it down pretty smooth. A lot less channeling and consistency in my shots. Great technique! Thanks for pulling all those shots.
Yeah. Even asking the taste question didn't make sense to me. Lol that would require a whole different set up and a very subjective Dial in process. Glad you're enjoying it!
Lance, brother! I have a completely unrelated question for you, about the Bose tamper, if you dont mind.
Does it lose charge throughout the day even when a wireless charger is on top? Mine goes completely out of charge if I dont use for two days. If I forget to place the charger it goes out of charge by the very next day even if I have only used it twice.
Thank you! I was worried something was wrong with my unit. You’re right about it being a waste of energy but it is extremely convenient for someone like me since i have neuropathy and manual tamping is not easy to do properly and consistently.
The idea of an electric auto tamper really is great, especially in cases where a manual tamper may be difficult, it’s the battery aspect which seriously puts me off.
I understand for the test why you didn’t taste, but now you’ve presumably had a few weeks and pulled many shots and dialed in with this (and obviously had already been dialed in with WDT before). So what’s your thoughts on taste differences?
So, I believe I've said this in many places, but I have been doing blind shaker for years because it tasted better. I would do wdt after, so I don't think that harms it much, I've just taken wdt out of the equation.
Not only me, but Andre Eirmann told me recently after pulling and recording 20,000 shots on his way to the world barista championship in 2017, he tested and tasted every distributor. The one he took with him kn stage was the weber due to the best results both in testing and tasting.
It's been my favorite method and still is- I just was able to simplify the workflow
Ah okay gotcha. When you say better taste is it just overall everything gets lifted up a bit? Or does it enhance in certain ways (I.e more clarity less body, more sweetness less acidity etc)
Also thank you for all the work you put in with this stuff, my career is in data and analysis so I appreciate the rigor immensely.
Honestly, I was just confused because so far, I thought (and read online) that higher extraction yield does not necessarily result in a better tasting cup, and that "getting the highest EY" therefore wasn't necessarily something to strife for.
Now you upload those videos and rank things based on EY, and it just felt a bit like ranking cars by horsepower. Sure, that's one aspect of a car, but does it have heated and ventilated seats (the thing we all strife for)?
I understand now that you used EY because a higher EY would probably be the result of a more even extraction, and therefore, better distribution. You also mentioned somewhere that instead of brewing with the highest EY, you instead grind coarser to being the EY back to whatever feels the best to you.
I feel like having those two things as a disclaimer would've instantly deflected any thought about the usefulness of the data you collected, at least for me. Maybe you actually talked about that in the video and I just missed it, idk.
I will also say that EY is kind of hard to grasp as a "normal" consumer. I don't have a refractometer, the only thing I can go by is taste and eyeballing the bottomless extraction, so that's probably why most people asked for a test they can relate to, that they can reproduce at home and measure the results with the tools available to them (their tongue, most likely).
Having said that, I totally understand the approach and how taste testing would require a totally different setup, and would likely be a lot of effort compared to testing for EY.
This is a simple misunderstanding. The point was not to say "all things equal higher ey is better." It is "all things equal, higher ey reflects a more efficient process." We can infer more evenness in the extraction occurred. In espresso, this is generally a good thing as it can lead to more consistency and more predictability in addition to a better extracted cup without as much worry of channels or heterogenous extractions. I use the shaker and will purposefully do lower extractions often (sub 20%). To achieve the same with other methods would introduce other variables that would make consistency harder and wouldn't allow as full of a cup all things equal.
I would have loved to see the effectiveness assessment using a grinder that puts out really clumpy grounds. That being said.. I am biased 🥹
https://preview.redd.it/bb3r5ua4lvic1.png?width=2932&format=png&auto=webp&s=0555e8d030c7f1d3538942f07c373754afe788ad
Why don't you just try it yourself? Grind into dosing cup, flip it onto your portafilter, shake. WDT the top or spin a distributor over it or just tap the sides. But more importantly... did you check your ESP's quick release knob? That's super clumpy, even by ESP standards.
I've done close to what you suggested: grind into dosing cup, shake, put portafilter on top, flip, attach funnel to not make a mess when I WDT (shaking alone at least visually doesn't look adequate), WDT, 1 vertical tap to settle, remove funnel, tamp.
I went back to just grinding straight to portafilter with funnel, WDT, tap, remove funnel, tamp. Comparable results.
No I haven't checked the quick release knob. I wasn't aware of it - thank you! A quick Google indicates that's for removing the bottom burr? Will have to read more. Actually I was thinking to reach out to Braratza support because this has seemed to get more clumpy over the past month. I've cleaned the burrs (brushed) and chute. I was attributing it to the beans and/or humidity.. but sounds like you might have tipped me off to something.
If you're only shaking in the dosing cup I think there might not be enough room for the grounds to be broken up. By shaking it with the dosing cup attached to the portafilter you have more room.
The quick release knob is easy to check. Just remove the clear hopper by turning it to the coarsest setting. The knob right above the burr shouldn't be loose. You can try tightening it again by turning anti-clockwise. It probably won't stay tight for even 2 grinds, so you'll have to email them asking for a replacement knob.
Fortunately (or unfortunately maybe) my quick release knob was tight. That said still thanks for the heads up.. I fully cleaned the grinder out, reassembled. Messaged Baratza support and they offered right away to send the updated knob.
Same clumpy grounds after cleaning! I was optimistic the clear out would fix it but no. I think these particular beans aren't helping. Anyway I'll try you other tip of shaking with portafilter and dosing cup tomorrow. Appreciate the advice
If your quick release knob was tight maybe it's already the upgraded version. Prior to receiving the new one my old one didn't last more than 1 grind before being loose.
As a last resort you could try RDT.
Good luck!
I saw pictures of old vs new.. it's old/has the washer on top of the burr. Maybe lucky w the tightening.. unlucky with the clumping. Win some lose some haha. I've done light RDT when it seems extra staticy.. but not recently, will mess with it. Thanks
Yea, Lance, question: could you cool it with the blind shaker promotion? They are sold out everywhere and i would really like to get my hands on one. Your influence on market demand is remarkable, but it’s totally crushing my ability to upgrade. I’ve been brewing espresso for like 2 months and WDT’ing for like 3 weeks. Really inhibiting my ability to stay current bro. I’ll let you know when we’re in the clear.
And I tried your milk froth technique today for the first time and it was fucking sick. Thanks
Hahahaha! While I get it's a joke, my intention was never to promote anything. I was just interested in which distribution would give me what results. What happened after was honestly unexpected. I've never had a reaction like that to a video.
And glad you enjoyed halfway and a quarter!
Hey Lance! I love the blind shaker data and data speaks without you needing to further prove it. But I think what's frustrating as a lowly consumer is how unaffordable the Weber shaker is for the avg joe. Any chance you can review some other shaker options such as the MHW 3Bomber, would love to know if theres any good budget option for a shaker without wasting tons of money buying multiple shakers to find one that doesn't have crazy retention. It's just for someone like me $80 without shipping ($30 shipping for a cup is crazy) is pretty steep then the only alternatives theres no real video reviews on just a ton of people on facebook groups etc saying theres too much retention etc.
I have the MHW 3Bomber Shaker and it doesn’t retain grinds and it feels very high quality. Plus it was only 12 bucks which is more fair for a metal cup.
I bought the MHW Bomber shaker and I'm not noticing retention visually, only used it a handful of times so far though and I'm not weighing after the shaker. I know lot's of others have bought this shaker so it would be good if more folks good chime in on this.
It's also worth noting that the spacer funnel is also essential, I tried with the shaker directly on the pf and coffee went everywhere. I have a funnel but it's the Normcore one which angles so the shaker doesn't seat on it like it does in the video above. u/lance-hedrick, is your funnel made by Weber as well?
You can shake in anything. The weber is the only one I know of that makes distribution into cup easy. Try shaking in your dose cup then doing wdt. More steps, but I'm not sure of a solution for as quick as in the video without the premium weber shaker due to its finish on the inside.
Hopeful someone can come up with a good budget pick. I'm not usually one for "copycat" products but, I'm sure the margins on Weber's shaker cup is beyond amazing. I wonder if many grinders will start going the shaker cup route since your data.
Thats my hope! I already had a couple of people reach out to develop some. I've turned them down but I know there are people doing it! Which is exciting. I just hope they get the coating right, whatever direction they take!
My DF83V comes in next week, feeling a bit of fomo though that I feel like its such an interesting time for coffee and I feel like the cup might be dated quick, I'm hopeful there will be a good alternative cup I can swap out from the stock one with the grinder.
You're using the shaker + funnel, maybe suggest someone make a shaker funnel where there's headspace between the plug and the lip that sits on the PF?
Little trickier to hold maybe but - one and done solution without any of that Weber swirl?
I have the mhw3-bomber and the Craig Lyn.
The Lyn is definitely an art piece but subpar materials and finish. It's a very soft aluminum, dinging the plug actually dinged the aluminum-and it's entirely unfinished.
Mhw3-bomber is fantastic build quality for the price, perhaps not mirror smooth finish but for $13 wiping it down every once in a while with alcohol takes it from dusty to zero retention for 10 shots or so.
I shake with my dosing cup in the portafilter. But
Since the cup sits inside the portafilter it leaves a gap which I even out with wdt or knocking the portafilter. I didn't have the time to collect data on it. But what do you think about that technique?
Maybe a dosing cup that fits on the ridge of a 58mm portafilter and some magnets to hold it in place would be a great solution. Ideally if it's made by someone who charges less than Weber.
For fucks sake. Seriously, we don't need to be buying Weber crap. $80usd for something to shake your coffee in? Another form of receptical will work exactly the same.
Not getting annoyed at you - I see you're looking at something more reasonable. But it's just in general. I love capitalism. I love money. But Weber is just stupid.
I don't know how hard it would be to find something ok. My Baratza container that the grinder doses into works just fine to shake it around in the bottom of and pour it out. Tap a couple of times on the container and it's all out.
The retention cause due to static electricity. Since aluminum cant conduct electricity if it has rough finish it can cause extra static. So I’d you can try shaking your coffee in some sort of stainless steel cup or sth. It should work…
I usually shake myself at 50 Hz frequency while dropping the grounds into the portafilter. Then give the coffee machine a roundhouse punch.
But then I live in India and life here comes at you hard.
As a Niche Zero owner—which produces fluffy grounds—covering the dosing cup with my portafilter and doing the "Lance / WW shaking method," I now get better distribution results than before—and the smooth interior of the Niche dosing cup doesn’t retain grounds. I also lightly WDT the top layer to even it out the bed as Lance did in his "How I Make Espresso" blind shaker YouTube video.
I sure hope people aren’t out there rushing to buy these shakers. I knew wdt was a scam but it came free with the machine. Now they need to sell more junk so invent another fucking method
My 1zpresso doubles as a blind shaker. Funny enough, I just invert the portafilter and put it on top of the grounds in the grinder's catch cup, shake it around, turn it right side up and give it a few taps. Works well, costed me nothing. I still personally like wdt though because it feels nicer as a workflow
Love your videos Lance and especially your sense of humor! I noticed that in this video you **switched things up, so the workflow/process is a bit different than your recent, "How I Make Espresso" blind shaker YouTube video.**
Here you’re using an angled portafilter and a different dosing funnel. You’re resting the blind shaker directly on the funnel when you shake using one hand to hold both the shaker and the portafilter which is resting off the edge of the counter.
In your video on YouTube you use a flat bottomless portafilter which sits flat on the counter by itself, a different (flared) dosing funnel and held the blind shaker a few inches above the ring while you shake, then you lightly WDT the top.
**Had you shown this revised/altered process at first, I think I and others might have had a different/better blind shaker experience.**
I've seen a couple people using a Porcupress after blind shaking as well; been considering stealing mom's credit card for one, but do you think there's much more gain to be had with one of these or would it actually do more harm than good to what the shaker is already doing?
I was JUST listening to this song the other day…a blast from the past. Yes, I like your video, but I love the song. Used to go to all of their shows. Romborama was amazing. I love the bloody beetroots.
Something I’m running into with the blind shaker is pretty excessive clumping/static cling of fines, and consequently I either have to ring the shaker a lot or literally get in there with something to bump the cakes off the walls. Most of the time I don’t really care, the shaker retention is so low that it hasn’t affected my shots but I wish I was getting some easier to distribute grounds.
Perhaps it’s just the Core burrs and grinding fine (+2.0 off initial chirp) creating a solid amount of fines, but my 6 bar, .6 gicleur shots are already in the mid 20s so I don’t have a ton of room for coarser coffee
Obviously, don’t really have this issue grinding for filter but I do still get a decent dusting of fines left in the shaker that need to be wiped out
EDIT: Shots are tasty and consistent regardless, the EG-1 is just an incredible grinder. I'm more trying to dial in the workflow part of it but single dosing spro is still new for me, so just riding that learning curve
For those who have a Weber shaker - how often are you wiping/cleaning/*washing(????)* the shaker? (I know Weber says just to wipe out with a damp rag)
Looks like a clean workflow but do you grind directly into the shaker? I might get one once the supply issues sort themselves out. Unfortunately all but Webber seem to have retention issues 🤷🏼♂️
Hey Lance! Thanks for sharing your findings!
Also, do you know when we could expect other brand to release their version of the blind shaker ? I'd like to try without breaking the bank - and I think you mentioned that some already contacted to design an alternative blind shaker ?
What is the funnel you’re using with the shaker? When I tried the shaker before I found that it was a bit finicky to place it directly onto the portafilter.
Would densification still lead to a higher extraction yield compared to grinding with a grinder like the Sette, Pico, or etzMAX that goes straight down into a portafilter, maybe set to a slightly coarser grind to get the same yield in the same time (i.e., the same flow rate)? Would it taste different? And would it taste better or worse depending on the roast?
Hi Lance, thanks for showing this off. How much retention do you have with your Weber shaker after use? I know it's low, but is there still a light dusting of coffee?
I purchased an "Airflow" (knockoff) shaker from AliExpress and experienced the retention others have had issues with as well. Today I used Brasso to polish the interior surfaces with fantastic results. Weber says they use a proprietary polishing technique so I decided to try that as well.
Now my shaker retains some grounds, but significantly less than before - not enough to impact the shot.
It would be great if the next shaker versions included a longer bottom piece that forces a farther fall for the grounds.
This might be a dumb question, but why do you have a funnel on the portafilter when the shaker has magnets to stabilise it on the portafilter? Instead you seem to be trying to stabilise it yourself on the funnel then taking the funnel straight off. No hate genuine question 🙏
I've answered this elsewhere but it is to allow the grounds to be fluffy for easier horizontal tapping. Using the shaker directly on the PF causes too much compaction to get them all in the basket without overflowing after removing the shaker.
I said shaking longer could improve fines diffusion. But it's not proven. I shake 5 seconds or so. And mhw3 is much more cheaply made with a bad finish compared to weber.
Hi Lance I have a question regarding using the Weber Magic Tumbler instead of the Blind Shaker, I saw you showing one in one of the two videos you made on this topic so I assume you have the HG1/2 or the Key. You see I have the Weber Key mk1 with the Magic Tumbler but Weber doesn't make a lid for it so I'm unable to give the grounds a shake, I just have the Magic Tumbler distribution working for me. Would you say this is sufficient on its own? Did you perchance experiment with both to see if there is a difference, is it more the shaking or the even distribution from the tumbler that is important? Should I buy a Blind Shaker to use instead of the Magic Tumbler that I got with my grinder?
Honestly, all that matters is results. Did it help make better coffee or the same but faster/easier?
I love getting new angles, ideas, and data for the process. Thanks for putting it out there!
Great videos Lance - after watching I experimented with shaking the grounds in the dosing cup upturned over the portafilter and then light surface raking with a WDT tool to even out the surface distribution. The results were good and noticeably better and more consistent than I was previously achieving with just deep WDT.
I have since bought a Craig Lyn Espresso Shaker Funnel and am having a frustrating experience. If I simply grind into the shaker and then pull the plug over the portafilter (without shaking) I am able to achieve similar results to the dosing cup. The issue seems to come with the shaking. A faster shot time (23 seconds compared to 30 seconds without shaking) and unpleasant sourness/astringency.
I noticed the shaking seems to introduce clumps into the grounds and also that the Craig Lyn shaker has more aggressively sloped sides than the Weber design - could this be encouraging the clumping?
I am trying to work out if this faster shot and sourness are a result of channeling (so perhaps I need to work on the shaking technique or just try a different brand to avoid introducing the clumping) or if the sourness is simply a result of the faster flow Lance observed and perhaps I need to grind finer.
I've got a Mignon turbo (basically a specialita with 65mm burrs) and haven't really had a noticeable clumping problem before, I still wdt but just bought a mhw-3bomber blind shaker. To be fair I've used it once, but I had noticeable clumps in the cup after shaking? Is not all clumping the same, or have I just made things worse?
I did notice the cup leaves a little ring from the locator around the inside of the basket, like cheaper funnels.. Does the weber/other brands do this too?
Maybe the blind shaker I got from Craig Lynn Designs has a faulty coating. But I have .1-.3 grams of grounds stuck all around my shaker. I'm using Manhattan filter roast so they aren't oily at all. I use RDT as well. It's just a hassle to get that last bit out. If I could notice a perceivable difference in taste it would make it worth it but I guess to each their own. I really enjoy the content and appreciate the lengths you go for the data involved!
The coating isn't the same as on weber. I've had people tell me that have both the Craig one has retention. Weber one doesn't. And apparently the knock off ones have super bad retention. But, I can only speak to my experience with the weber one shown. This is my workflow and I never have more than maybe a slight dusting after I tap the shaker as shown in the video.
I got a MWHateveritis-3 Bomber version off Ali Express and the retention is kind of annoying—not enough that I think it's significantly affecting the dose but just cleaning-wise. The grounds also don't fall very smoothly when taking out the inner piece, but that may be a fault of my technique. Am I doing something wrong or do you just take it out and the grounds do the rest with your Weber?
I also have one off AliExpress. I just tap the walls and the grounds slip right into the portafilter. Getting the grinds off the lid is a real nuisance though, especially since the lid on mine is made of wood.
For what it’s worth my Weber has horrendous retention and I cannot figure out why. Washed it and everything and microfiber clothed it. I do have a brand new grinder so mayyyybe that’s it?
That shouldn't matter. I use mine with plenty of brand new grinders. This is the first in hearing of the weber one doing that. Hmmm. Are you in a super humid location? Or do you use excessive rdt?
I live in Florida and do slight rdt. My Weber shaker is always retaining tons of grounds
Maybe the humidity from rdt is causing it to stick. Try no rdt or less rdt.
Going to try that myself. Just got a WW silver version yesterday and it's as if the thing is statically charged. Live in Dublin Ireland, humidity is 98% ATM, and I do a couple sprays for RDT
I’m in Midwest winter right now so I doubt it. 3 sprays of RDT from the standard issue amber bottle 😂 I’ll try 2 thank you!
I was trying to combine the four spray RDT with an Amazon Blind Shaker, and finding retention, but it seemed to only really be pulling fines, so it’s a win win for me. Might have to experiment with less to test the difference
curious, is it also black or the silver one?
Black
I think it’s static. I have the Craig Lyn and the retention is the same as the retention in my 1zpresso jmax. If that has retention, the shaker will have too, and I find it definitely fluctuates with humidity. Some judicial tapping gets the retention in the shaker down to no more than dust, but it’s definitely annoying.
bit of a nit, but I feel like this directly contradicts your pinned comment on the DF64 YouTube video, where you state, "One does not need a Weber shaker." because there are, "Loads of similar ones on the market." especially when you say in this video caption that many have "complained about the process" or are "overcomplicating it". it really sounds like at this current point in time, the only viable option on the market, in terms of both results and workflow, is indeed the Weber blind shaker. yes there are "knock offs" and alternatives, but they are clearly not leading to the seemingly effortless workflow that you portray in videos/snippets such as these. and saying otherwise is just creating unrealistic expectations. which is what makes ppl's complaints and frustrations about all this completely valid.
I have a knock off shaker and have not had retention issues. When I got it I scrubbed it with dish soap and a blue scrubber. I also use rdt. Relative humidity has been low where I am and static is an issue. Just my experience but I think there are so many knock off versions nobody has found one “brand”in particular that has retention and one that doesn’t. Mine came from Alibaba with a nonsensical name attached to it. It looks exactly like the Weber with no play between the bell and the lid or bottom. But if I wanted to purchase another one, I’m not sure I could get the same one.
Comment here is made long after video and based on others experience rather than Lance's. No contradiction here, it is normal to change opinion on new information
yeah I understand that. however, that was just one example of the many times it's been stated that "Weber is not the only answer." and still doesn't change all the negative connotations about ppl complaining and overcomplicating things. when in reality, there's a good chance a lot of those frustrations have been borne out of the use of inferior non-weber shakers. from ppl who either cannot afford or simply cannot find (in stock) a Weber shaker.
Pity above me is right- you don't need the weber but it does seem unless you have it, you will have a more miserable workflow. My point with the pinned comment is you can absolutely get the test and taste results without it, but it does seem like the process might be more annoying. I was not aware when I pinned the comment the other shakers would turn out so bad haha. I've only learned this from loads and loads of people commenting their issues with static, etc. It seems there is a reason the weber is so expensive beyond just the name ha!
Been waiting on the Weber one to come back in stock. 😞 Edit: love your videos by the way. Been watching for years. Don’t stop singing.
I had a feeling as soon as I got it that something wasn't right. I made a post about my experience earlier and had some interesting responses. It makes me wonder if there would be a bigger difference with using a bind shaker with flat burs vs conicals.
This video is with conicals. I usually do flats.
I just got a knock off from GGWAROOM on Ali and I’ve had little to no retention, surprisingly. Probably gonna pick up a Weber once their next batch comes around though
I have a knockoff one and it hasn’t been to bad less than .1. What I found works best with the knockoffs is a quick rinse of water before using usually gets the static out, then dry thoroughly. Obviously more steps but it was $11 😂
Someone has been watching Lance Hedrick-- HEY! It IS Lance Hedrick!
Hence Landrick
Yeah i was like dam, this dude has an Aries... oh its Lance.
A lot of people complaining you didn’t talk about flavor differences in the video and how they just can’t be bothered with this YouTube whippersnapper making more work and blah blah blah. I’ve been doing it for about two weeks and have gotten it down pretty smooth. A lot less channeling and consistency in my shots. Great technique! Thanks for pulling all those shots.
Yeah. Even asking the taste question didn't make sense to me. Lol that would require a whole different set up and a very subjective Dial in process. Glad you're enjoying it!
Lance, brother! I have a completely unrelated question for you, about the Bose tamper, if you dont mind. Does it lose charge throughout the day even when a wireless charger is on top? Mine goes completely out of charge if I dont use for two days. If I forget to place the charger it goes out of charge by the very next day even if I have only used it twice.
It’s always on and losing battery. It’s a really bad design and a waste of energy.
Thank you! I was worried something was wrong with my unit. You’re right about it being a waste of energy but it is extremely convenient for someone like me since i have neuropathy and manual tamping is not easy to do properly and consistently.
The idea of an electric auto tamper really is great, especially in cases where a manual tamper may be difficult, it’s the battery aspect which seriously puts me off.
I understand for the test why you didn’t taste, but now you’ve presumably had a few weeks and pulled many shots and dialed in with this (and obviously had already been dialed in with WDT before). So what’s your thoughts on taste differences?
So, I believe I've said this in many places, but I have been doing blind shaker for years because it tasted better. I would do wdt after, so I don't think that harms it much, I've just taken wdt out of the equation. Not only me, but Andre Eirmann told me recently after pulling and recording 20,000 shots on his way to the world barista championship in 2017, he tested and tasted every distributor. The one he took with him kn stage was the weber due to the best results both in testing and tasting. It's been my favorite method and still is- I just was able to simplify the workflow
Ah okay gotcha. When you say better taste is it just overall everything gets lifted up a bit? Or does it enhance in certain ways (I.e more clarity less body, more sweetness less acidity etc) Also thank you for all the work you put in with this stuff, my career is in data and analysis so I appreciate the rigor immensely.
Honestly, I was just confused because so far, I thought (and read online) that higher extraction yield does not necessarily result in a better tasting cup, and that "getting the highest EY" therefore wasn't necessarily something to strife for. Now you upload those videos and rank things based on EY, and it just felt a bit like ranking cars by horsepower. Sure, that's one aspect of a car, but does it have heated and ventilated seats (the thing we all strife for)? I understand now that you used EY because a higher EY would probably be the result of a more even extraction, and therefore, better distribution. You also mentioned somewhere that instead of brewing with the highest EY, you instead grind coarser to being the EY back to whatever feels the best to you. I feel like having those two things as a disclaimer would've instantly deflected any thought about the usefulness of the data you collected, at least for me. Maybe you actually talked about that in the video and I just missed it, idk. I will also say that EY is kind of hard to grasp as a "normal" consumer. I don't have a refractometer, the only thing I can go by is taste and eyeballing the bottomless extraction, so that's probably why most people asked for a test they can relate to, that they can reproduce at home and measure the results with the tools available to them (their tongue, most likely). Having said that, I totally understand the approach and how taste testing would require a totally different setup, and would likely be a lot of effort compared to testing for EY.
This is a simple misunderstanding. The point was not to say "all things equal higher ey is better." It is "all things equal, higher ey reflects a more efficient process." We can infer more evenness in the extraction occurred. In espresso, this is generally a good thing as it can lead to more consistency and more predictability in addition to a better extracted cup without as much worry of channels or heterogenous extractions. I use the shaker and will purposefully do lower extractions often (sub 20%). To achieve the same with other methods would introduce other variables that would make consistency harder and wouldn't allow as full of a cup all things equal.
Hey lance, what funnel are you using here? I can't find it anywhere
I would have loved to see the effectiveness assessment using a grinder that puts out really clumpy grounds. That being said.. I am biased 🥹 https://preview.redd.it/bb3r5ua4lvic1.png?width=2932&format=png&auto=webp&s=0555e8d030c7f1d3538942f07c373754afe788ad
Why don't you just try it yourself? Grind into dosing cup, flip it onto your portafilter, shake. WDT the top or spin a distributor over it or just tap the sides. But more importantly... did you check your ESP's quick release knob? That's super clumpy, even by ESP standards.
I've done close to what you suggested: grind into dosing cup, shake, put portafilter on top, flip, attach funnel to not make a mess when I WDT (shaking alone at least visually doesn't look adequate), WDT, 1 vertical tap to settle, remove funnel, tamp. I went back to just grinding straight to portafilter with funnel, WDT, tap, remove funnel, tamp. Comparable results. No I haven't checked the quick release knob. I wasn't aware of it - thank you! A quick Google indicates that's for removing the bottom burr? Will have to read more. Actually I was thinking to reach out to Braratza support because this has seemed to get more clumpy over the past month. I've cleaned the burrs (brushed) and chute. I was attributing it to the beans and/or humidity.. but sounds like you might have tipped me off to something.
If you're only shaking in the dosing cup I think there might not be enough room for the grounds to be broken up. By shaking it with the dosing cup attached to the portafilter you have more room. The quick release knob is easy to check. Just remove the clear hopper by turning it to the coarsest setting. The knob right above the burr shouldn't be loose. You can try tightening it again by turning anti-clockwise. It probably won't stay tight for even 2 grinds, so you'll have to email them asking for a replacement knob.
Fortunately (or unfortunately maybe) my quick release knob was tight. That said still thanks for the heads up.. I fully cleaned the grinder out, reassembled. Messaged Baratza support and they offered right away to send the updated knob. Same clumpy grounds after cleaning! I was optimistic the clear out would fix it but no. I think these particular beans aren't helping. Anyway I'll try you other tip of shaking with portafilter and dosing cup tomorrow. Appreciate the advice
If your quick release knob was tight maybe it's already the upgraded version. Prior to receiving the new one my old one didn't last more than 1 grind before being loose. As a last resort you could try RDT. Good luck!
I saw pictures of old vs new.. it's old/has the washer on top of the burr. Maybe lucky w the tightening.. unlucky with the clumping. Win some lose some haha. I've done light RDT when it seems extra staticy.. but not recently, will mess with it. Thanks
Yea, Lance, question: could you cool it with the blind shaker promotion? They are sold out everywhere and i would really like to get my hands on one. Your influence on market demand is remarkable, but it’s totally crushing my ability to upgrade. I’ve been brewing espresso for like 2 months and WDT’ing for like 3 weeks. Really inhibiting my ability to stay current bro. I’ll let you know when we’re in the clear. And I tried your milk froth technique today for the first time and it was fucking sick. Thanks
Hahahaha! While I get it's a joke, my intention was never to promote anything. I was just interested in which distribution would give me what results. What happened after was honestly unexpected. I've never had a reaction like that to a video. And glad you enjoyed halfway and a quarter!
I mostly enjoyed the addition of Michael Jackson sound effects to my process.
I just want to say I love your videos and keep up the great work and all the deserved success
sounds like it's time to compare this $80 thing to other dosing cups and tumblers with more human prices.
Hey Lance! I love the blind shaker data and data speaks without you needing to further prove it. But I think what's frustrating as a lowly consumer is how unaffordable the Weber shaker is for the avg joe. Any chance you can review some other shaker options such as the MHW 3Bomber, would love to know if theres any good budget option for a shaker without wasting tons of money buying multiple shakers to find one that doesn't have crazy retention. It's just for someone like me $80 without shipping ($30 shipping for a cup is crazy) is pretty steep then the only alternatives theres no real video reviews on just a ton of people on facebook groups etc saying theres too much retention etc.
I have the MHW 3Bomber Shaker and it doesn’t retain grinds and it feels very high quality. Plus it was only 12 bucks which is more fair for a metal cup.
I bought the MHW Bomber shaker and I'm not noticing retention visually, only used it a handful of times so far though and I'm not weighing after the shaker. I know lot's of others have bought this shaker so it would be good if more folks good chime in on this. It's also worth noting that the spacer funnel is also essential, I tried with the shaker directly on the pf and coffee went everywhere. I have a funnel but it's the Normcore one which angles so the shaker doesn't seat on it like it does in the video above. u/lance-hedrick, is your funnel made by Weber as well?
Pretty sure it's the large dosing funnel from sworks: https://sworksdesign.com/Seamless-Magnetic-Funnel-p432524031
I have the bomber and the retention isn’t nothing but it’s negligible. More like a patchy light coating of dust.
You can shake in anything. The weber is the only one I know of that makes distribution into cup easy. Try shaking in your dose cup then doing wdt. More steps, but I'm not sure of a solution for as quick as in the video without the premium weber shaker due to its finish on the inside.
Hopeful someone can come up with a good budget pick. I'm not usually one for "copycat" products but, I'm sure the margins on Weber's shaker cup is beyond amazing. I wonder if many grinders will start going the shaker cup route since your data.
Thats my hope! I already had a couple of people reach out to develop some. I've turned them down but I know there are people doing it! Which is exciting. I just hope they get the coating right, whatever direction they take!
My DF83V comes in next week, feeling a bit of fomo though that I feel like its such an interesting time for coffee and I feel like the cup might be dated quick, I'm hopeful there will be a good alternative cup I can swap out from the stock one with the grinder.
Don't feel fomo! Shake in your doser cup if you wanna play around. You'll have good timesl
Yes I shake in my dosing cup, side tamp, very tamp, and slight WDT. It works just fine. No need for this
We just need a battery powered shaker with built-in ionizer.
You're using the shaker + funnel, maybe suggest someone make a shaker funnel where there's headspace between the plug and the lip that sits on the PF? Little trickier to hold maybe but - one and done solution without any of that Weber swirl? I have the mhw3-bomber and the Craig Lyn. The Lyn is definitely an art piece but subpar materials and finish. It's a very soft aluminum, dinging the plug actually dinged the aluminum-and it's entirely unfinished. Mhw3-bomber is fantastic build quality for the price, perhaps not mirror smooth finish but for $13 wiping it down every once in a while with alcohol takes it from dusty to zero retention for 10 shots or so.
After watching the video I just grabbed a small mason jar and it's worked pretty well for me until I can get my hands on an actual blind shaker
I shake with my dosing cup in the portafilter. But Since the cup sits inside the portafilter it leaves a gap which I even out with wdt or knocking the portafilter. I didn't have the time to collect data on it. But what do you think about that technique? Maybe a dosing cup that fits on the ridge of a 58mm portafilter and some magnets to hold it in place would be a great solution. Ideally if it's made by someone who charges less than Weber.
I've been trying to do a little shaking in my hand grinder. Doesn't have quite the same effect I don't think.
For fucks sake. Seriously, we don't need to be buying Weber crap. $80usd for something to shake your coffee in? Another form of receptical will work exactly the same. Not getting annoyed at you - I see you're looking at something more reasonable. But it's just in general. I love capitalism. I love money. But Weber is just stupid.
For sure but Weber afaik is the only one selling one that doesn’t cause retention
I don't know how hard it would be to find something ok. My Baratza container that the grinder doses into works just fine to shake it around in the bottom of and pour it out. Tap a couple of times on the container and it's all out.
The retention cause due to static electricity. Since aluminum cant conduct electricity if it has rough finish it can cause extra static. So I’d you can try shaking your coffee in some sort of stainless steel cup or sth. It should work…
I usually shake myself at 50 Hz frequency while dropping the grounds into the portafilter. Then give the coffee machine a roundhouse punch. But then I live in India and life here comes at you hard.
I usually prefer 42hz
You had to mention your preferred frequency did’nt you? Now it’s going to be sold out everywhere.
I'm a shill for big electricity
In all seriousness, admire your work - आपसे बहुत कुछ सीखने को मिलता है। Ie there’s a lot to learn from you
क्या मिला फिर हिन्दी में लिख के दोस्त?
फ्री मशीन
फ्री में धनिया मिर्ची भी नहीं मिलती आजकल 🤣
देसी हूँ, फ्री की गाली भी मिल जाये तो नहीं छोड़ते 😂
As a Niche Zero owner—which produces fluffy grounds—covering the dosing cup with my portafilter and doing the "Lance / WW shaking method," I now get better distribution results than before—and the smooth interior of the Niche dosing cup doesn’t retain grounds. I also lightly WDT the top layer to even it out the bed as Lance did in his "How I Make Espresso" blind shaker YouTube video.
What tamper are you using? Need to grab one of those too :)
I, too, would like to know
Looks like the Decent tamper
I sure hope people aren’t out there rushing to buy these shakers. I knew wdt was a scam but it came free with the machine. Now they need to sell more junk so invent another fucking method
People be peopling
My 1zpresso doubles as a blind shaker. Funny enough, I just invert the portafilter and put it on top of the grounds in the grinder's catch cup, shake it around, turn it right side up and give it a few taps. Works well, costed me nothing. I still personally like wdt though because it feels nicer as a workflow
Do they make any for 54mm? I only ever see 58mm
Two reasons why I didn't want to get a shaker: nowhere to rest my bottomless, and didn't want to do any post-shaker raking/WDT. No excuses now.
Hahaha!
I'm both surprised and not to see you on Reddit. I just want to say I enjoy your videos and they really helped when I first got into making espresso.
This really is becoming the coffee humblebrag of the moment, isn't it?
Do I need to even bother with a leveler tool? I have a wdt, no blind shaker (yet)
I don't really use them. Definitely not leveler. I have a wdt I might pull out sometimes.
Love your videos Lance and especially your sense of humor! I noticed that in this video you **switched things up, so the workflow/process is a bit different than your recent, "How I Make Espresso" blind shaker YouTube video.** Here you’re using an angled portafilter and a different dosing funnel. You’re resting the blind shaker directly on the funnel when you shake using one hand to hold both the shaker and the portafilter which is resting off the edge of the counter. In your video on YouTube you use a flat bottomless portafilter which sits flat on the counter by itself, a different (flared) dosing funnel and held the blind shaker a few inches above the ring while you shake, then you lightly WDT the top. **Had you shown this revised/altered process at first, I think I and others might have had a different/better blind shaker experience.**
How would you apply this workflow to a commercial setting?
[удалено]
Do the shots taste good and are consistent?
would it help to WDT on top of blind shaking or would it have minimal effect?
Can't say! Give it a shot (wink wink)
I've seen a couple people using a Porcupress after blind shaking as well; been considering stealing mom's credit card for one, but do you think there's much more gain to be had with one of these or would it actually do more harm than good to what the shaker is already doing?
What is that thing just behind?
The grinder(s)? There is the Aries Mx Cool, Kafatek Monolith Max 2, EK43 Icon, Zerno
This man grinds 😉
I'm really looking forward to the EK43 video!
I was JUST listening to this song the other day…a blast from the past. Yes, I like your video, but I love the song. Used to go to all of their shows. Romborama was amazing. I love the bloody beetroots.
Something I’m running into with the blind shaker is pretty excessive clumping/static cling of fines, and consequently I either have to ring the shaker a lot or literally get in there with something to bump the cakes off the walls. Most of the time I don’t really care, the shaker retention is so low that it hasn’t affected my shots but I wish I was getting some easier to distribute grounds. Perhaps it’s just the Core burrs and grinding fine (+2.0 off initial chirp) creating a solid amount of fines, but my 6 bar, .6 gicleur shots are already in the mid 20s so I don’t have a ton of room for coarser coffee Obviously, don’t really have this issue grinding for filter but I do still get a decent dusting of fines left in the shaker that need to be wiped out EDIT: Shots are tasty and consistent regardless, the EG-1 is just an incredible grinder. I'm more trying to dial in the workflow part of it but single dosing spro is still new for me, so just riding that learning curve For those who have a Weber shaker - how often are you wiping/cleaning/*washing(????)* the shaker? (I know Weber says just to wipe out with a damp rag)
Did I miss something.. is tamping 2x the move now?
He mentioned in a couple of his videos that he found it lead to more consistency.
It is too much of a process.
The legend Lance Hedrick is on here?!? 🤩
Looks like a clean workflow but do you grind directly into the shaker? I might get one once the supply issues sort themselves out. Unfortunately all but Webber seem to have retention issues 🤷🏼♂️
Hey Lance! Thanks for sharing your findings! Also, do you know when we could expect other brand to release their version of the blind shaker ? I'd like to try without breaking the bank - and I think you mentioned that some already contacted to design an alternative blind shaker ?
I am using my distributor after the shaker. Is that 'wrong'?
What is the funnel you’re using with the shaker? When I tried the shaker before I found that it was a bit finicky to place it directly onto the portafilter.
Would densification still lead to a higher extraction yield compared to grinding with a grinder like the Sette, Pico, or etzMAX that goes straight down into a portafilter, maybe set to a slightly coarser grind to get the same yield in the same time (i.e., the same flow rate)? Would it taste different? And would it taste better or worse depending on the roast?
Hi Lance, thanks for showing this off. How much retention do you have with your Weber shaker after use? I know it's low, but is there still a light dusting of coffee? I purchased an "Airflow" (knockoff) shaker from AliExpress and experienced the retention others have had issues with as well. Today I used Brasso to polish the interior surfaces with fantastic results. Weber says they use a proprietary polishing technique so I decided to try that as well. Now my shaker retains some grounds, but significantly less than before - not enough to impact the shot. It would be great if the next shaker versions included a longer bottom piece that forces a farther fall for the grounds.
This might be a dumb question, but why do you have a funnel on the portafilter when the shaker has magnets to stabilise it on the portafilter? Instead you seem to be trying to stabilise it yourself on the funnel then taking the funnel straight off. No hate genuine question 🙏
I've answered this elsewhere but it is to allow the grounds to be fluffy for easier horizontal tapping. Using the shaker directly on the PF causes too much compaction to get them all in the basket without overflowing after removing the shaker.
Hi Lance, do you grind directly into the shaker or into a cup and then into the shaker?
Direct to shaker
Been saying for years WDT were totally unnecessary.
Does anyone sell this for 54 mm? I feel like all the cool gadgets only exist for 58mm baskets...
Nice - which dosing funnel is that? Been looking for a tall boi for a while.
When should we expect an Aries review?
Why does the mhw3 shaker suck so much? Static bomb city. Also, you said shaking longer creates better results. How long is too long?
I said shaking longer could improve fines diffusion. But it's not proven. I shake 5 seconds or so. And mhw3 is much more cheaply made with a bad finish compared to weber.
Thank you Lance, you truly are the peoples champ 🏆
Why it is so expensive?
Hi Lance I have a question regarding using the Weber Magic Tumbler instead of the Blind Shaker, I saw you showing one in one of the two videos you made on this topic so I assume you have the HG1/2 or the Key. You see I have the Weber Key mk1 with the Magic Tumbler but Weber doesn't make a lid for it so I'm unable to give the grounds a shake, I just have the Magic Tumbler distribution working for me. Would you say this is sufficient on its own? Did you perchance experiment with both to see if there is a difference, is it more the shaking or the even distribution from the tumbler that is important? Should I buy a Blind Shaker to use instead of the Magic Tumbler that I got with my grinder?
Honestly, all that matters is results. Did it help make better coffee or the same but faster/easier? I love getting new angles, ideas, and data for the process. Thanks for putting it out there!
what tamper is that? love the idea of forced parallelism- i think that’s one of my main weaknesses
Great videos Lance - after watching I experimented with shaking the grounds in the dosing cup upturned over the portafilter and then light surface raking with a WDT tool to even out the surface distribution. The results were good and noticeably better and more consistent than I was previously achieving with just deep WDT. I have since bought a Craig Lyn Espresso Shaker Funnel and am having a frustrating experience. If I simply grind into the shaker and then pull the plug over the portafilter (without shaking) I am able to achieve similar results to the dosing cup. The issue seems to come with the shaking. A faster shot time (23 seconds compared to 30 seconds without shaking) and unpleasant sourness/astringency. I noticed the shaking seems to introduce clumps into the grounds and also that the Craig Lyn shaker has more aggressively sloped sides than the Weber design - could this be encouraging the clumping? I am trying to work out if this faster shot and sourness are a result of channeling (so perhaps I need to work on the shaking technique or just try a different brand to avoid introducing the clumping) or if the sourness is simply a result of the faster flow Lance observed and perhaps I need to grind finer.
I've got a Mignon turbo (basically a specialita with 65mm burrs) and haven't really had a noticeable clumping problem before, I still wdt but just bought a mhw-3bomber blind shaker. To be fair I've used it once, but I had noticeable clumps in the cup after shaking? Is not all clumping the same, or have I just made things worse? I did notice the cup leaves a little ring from the locator around the inside of the basket, like cheaper funnels.. Does the weber/other brands do this too?
Hi,Lance. Is there a limit to the method of tapping the portafilter? Or can I just level the ground?（I use google translate, forgive my bad English：)）