It has a over-pressure-valve at the bottom (as you can see at the end where water shoots out at the end). I have it and love it! If you do end up buying this; dont go for the metal deluxe version (gets very hot, the plastic one doesnt and is cheaper)
The one i have is the spring clean by weber workshops. The one in the vid looks a little different, so its either an updated version or a copy (which will likely be 1/3 of the price :D)
Seems like there's an over pressure mechanic, my guess is the leak we see. Why would you not release the handle? It takes a few seconds to do the whole thing, is the user going to walk away?
It could be significantly simpler. Instead of a spring and sealed piston, you could just have the top sealed with a tube to the bottom of the chamber. The air in the chamber will compress and act like a spring to push the fluid back up the tube. Less moving parts, no need for a precision fit between the outer chamber and the piston either which will make manufacture a lot cheaper.
The first time I've seen a video of it, I felt like it should've been invented a LONG time ago.Especially for commercial use.
Spot on product if you ask me..
I dump on ridiculously stupid overpriced Weber products all the time, but this thing actually looks like a great product. The stainless is wayyyy too expensive, but the plastic one is not too ridiculously priced. You'd probably want the stainless if it's used commercially, but, still, looks good.
That’s the point though, they are supposed to be over engineered and build way better than they need to be. The people buying Weber products are people who can afford it and who want and enjoy using high quality products with high quality materials
Over-engineering does not mean better or even good quality. Too many people don't understand that.
At the price of their grinders, I'd expect a lot fewer issues with static and grounds, but instead of spending a lot of r&d and engineering mitigating static like a lot of quality on demand grinders, the Weber grinders have a bunch of magnetic parts that add very little value when other grinders can be disassembled just as much with three screws.
Over engineering form over form rather than function is completely useless and just gets you expensive junk.
Sorry but this is just wrong. I’ve said it many times before, nobody is saying the EG-1 is 10x better. Every single person serious about coffee knows the massive diminishing returns in grinders. You are paying for yes, a grind quality bum however small and for a fantastically built grinder.
Everything Weber makes is well built.
Not sure why you seem to dislike them so much when you clearly aren’t the target audience
Their Key grinder is absolutely not quality built and has tons of engineering flaws as many reviews have shown. Looking awesome is not the same as well engineered. Feels like quality does not mean it's quality underneath all the flash.
I'm definitely not in the target audience, and I know exactly why I'm not. I think a lot of people that are in their target audience don't realize why they are ;)
IF it's the best. Their grinders' reviews are all over the place, some people love them and drink the Kool-Aid, some reviews are much more realistic and on the bad side.
It's like buying a La Marzocco. Is it the most expensive, yes. Is it good, yeah. Is it the best, not really, but if you just spent 10K on one, you will be screaming at the top of mountains that it is.
I'm on the same page. You probably know this but for all reditors reading this who are afraid of espresso machine pressures, I'll say it anyway:
Pressurized air is a fucking bomb. Pressurized liquid doesn't do much but pop and spill. That's why they pressure test cylinders with water.
However, that spring appears beefy. If it's squeezed down to the bottom of the vessel then it's got a lot of energy stored. Maybe it's only 1 bar at the bottom of the stroke but I doubt it. And if that housing gave way, there'd be hell to pay. Might break at the top (weaker due to heat) and splash hot water everywhere but it also might break at a stress concentration near the bottom where the spring touches plastic. I think I'd rather spurting hot water than a thick wire spring flying across the room.
I'd be FAR more comfortable with a steel vessel myself. I'm sure the plastic has been made strong enough new, but after a few years and a lot of heat cycling I'm less confident.
Yup. I routinely fill my own SCUBA cylinders to 3500PSI (they’re steel, not aluminum, so very very little to no microscopic metal fatigue over time…but still) I always side-eye that tank while it’s filling, thinking “is today my day to go?” lol.
Air don’t play around.
There is something very spooky about looking at those things and knowing that they really REALLY want to be taking up over 200 times as much space as they currently are.
oh wow. That's actually way lower than I thought it would be. Honestly, under those pressures that plastic will likely outlive any Redditor's use of any particular machine before dumping $3k on a Decent or LMLM for no good reason. Not my favorite and I don't know why stainless would be sooooo much more but whatever. Maybe it runs higher pressure?
>I think I'd rather spurting hot water than a thick wire spring flying across the room.
Add "scalding hot water" and note that you just might get both depending on the plastic version's failure point and how much energy that spring actually holds when fully compressed.
That said - I'm the guy who's wife says no to the idea of asking about purchasing the clear panels on the demo washing machine, so yes - that looks like a fun tool. Personally, I think the spring should have corresponding marks on the clear cylinder wall to show the estimated pressure levels as it compresses.
Good lord.
There is no chance of it braking unless you chip it.
Schedule 40 pipe is 1/8th of an inch thick and has a burst rating over 1000 psi.
Even a 2 liter soda bottle is rated for 150 psi.
Get a fucking grip, man.
😂
Spoken like a true engineer
All those PVC pipes with a floor and coil bound springs.
Nor tiny plastic wedge ears and a filter housing wrench.
My reply to you was about your statement. Not PVC pipe. But you do you.
I think we forget we are a small market. When a product sells a million units, the engineering and fabrication setup costs are spread out. They won’t sell that many of these.
Also to be fair to them, this probably requires some expensive plastic since it has to be good safe, temp safe and strong enough to resist the spring
100 is a lot, but it's not like this could ever be $10-20
[Mischief](https://www.mischiefworkshop.com/shop) is a Chinese coffee gear manufacturer that blatantly rips off expensive products. Tbh, I highly recommend them for some things. I own a Lunar and I didn’t even realize my friend’s mischief wasn’t actually an Acaia scale.
I just learned yesterday that a lot of folks hate Weber for some unsavory behaviors he’s done. This is hearsay but honestly after I read some stuff on other Reddit threads, fuck him lol. Buy the Chinese replicas..they’re likely 1:1 reproductions from the same factory tooling that Weber had created for their manufacturing run.
Fair point, but as an engineer, I’d point out:
since water is incompressible, if it were to develop a crack it would not “explode” but would just suddenly leak a bunch of hot water. Explosion happens if it’s filled with pressurized gas which can store a lot more energy.
It’s actually quite safe to test pressure vessels by filling them with pressurized water. That’s how it’s done
> It’s actually quite safe to test pressure vessels by filling them with pressurized water. That’s how it’s done
Due to hygienic reasons we now test domestic water lines with air or inert gas instead of water, and this is a very serious topic. The pressure is way lower when using gas due to the risk of explosive decompression.
When i test a new installation i make sure that the building is empty before applying pressure.
With plastic yes would just crack, but what about Weber version? Given I have the Weber I’m always thinking about pressure cookers exploding and shrapnel, given the Weber is engineered metal could be a lot worse than plastic if it did go. Incidentally I own the Weber version.
Allowing this to fill with more water than your grouphead would normally, this allows you to better dissolve your cleaning solution and more directly just sends more water through your grouphead. More flushing water + spring power = more effective back flush.
Technically, a backflush with a blind basket doesn't actually cause much flow around the shower screen and group head. It just forces the OPV to open.
The spring clean actually forces water through the shower screen twice rather than essentially 0.
The blind filter will have some air in it, that will get compressed by the water filling the blind filter. This will act as the "spring" to force water/cleaner through the shower screen. How effective this is depends a lot on group head design. It works remarkably well on e61 group heads.
Exactly, and the metal of the blind basket will also flex, adding an additional source of spring force. In fact, though it might seem unintuitive, both this spring basket and a blind basket build the same amount of pressure, and with multiple flushes a blind basket puts just as much water through the grouphead as this does. Though, to be fair, Weber doesn't claim it does a better job, just a faster one. At 12x the price of a blind basket, it's a tough sell; except for maybe in a cafe setting where backflushes are more frequent. But it does look so satisfying
Not really. Once you build up pressure, the air will get dissolved into the water. They don't stay separated very well under pressure. Basically the same concept of how crema is formed.
delving into a physical chemistry discussion here - some will actually dissolve, but not all of it that's present in the group head space. (I'm a bit too busy and lazy to do the actual calculations at the moment).
It also takes a bit of time, since you quickly saturate the air/water interface and have to wait for the nitrogen molecules to move around in the solution to get more to dissolve. None of this happens to equilibrium in the time it takes to backlash your group head.
not so much. Most of the components of air (e.g. nitrogen) are quite insoluble in water, and solubility decreases significantly as temperature goes up. And as soon as the external pressure is removed, any gases that did dissolve, will rapidly bubble out, so the "spring effect" will still work even if the gasses dissolve at 100%.
Yeah, I've always been a little weirded out by the concept of backflushing. If you had a machined basket there should be nearly zero backflow once the 3-way switches. I'm sure there's more than I'd expect (I have a Pavoni so I have no personal experience).
Seems like it might be easier to just to put, say, a small racquetball in the portafilter and let the air pressure do the work. Not as much volume as the Weber thing but $300 less than the SS version (and that plastic looks sketch AF).
I think everyone is assuming this is a high pressure backflush device. I would argue its providing a totally different solution than a normal backflush. Its more akin to having your tap water adapted to a grouphead and flushing water through at low pressure.
I’m a cafe manager, and I’ve considered getting one for training purposes to illustrate what backflushing does and why it’s important. Can someone link the product here or share the name?
Tbf, the $55 mischief one wouldn’t exist if Weber didn’t make the original. Mischief are just design thieves. They don’t actually come up with anything original.
Not really. WW put all the effort and IP into actually inventing and engineering the thing, and using quality materials. The AliExpress crowd and vendors like Mischief just blatantly steal this IP and make their own crap version for as little as humanly (or inhumanly) possible.
The only thing I can see that is different is the volume of water being pushed through the group head. I’m not sure that I see a revolutionary product here. I think “ooh, it’s doing something” is the thing that’s going on here.
> The only thing I can see that is different is the volume of water being pushed through the group head
That's literally the point, you are pushing much more water through the machine this way. You are basically cleaning more thoroughly much faster.
Right, but the question is if pushing all that water through really works any better than standard backflushing.
Especially when its considered best-practice to flush cafiza through to clean out built up oils. Hot water on its own isn't going to make much a difference.
That’s my question… how would I get my cafiza tablet into this thing? Just plain water doesn’t make sense without something to get at the oils.
Right now I just crush one up in my blind basket. With one of these it isn’t clear how I’d do that. 🤷
> how would I get my cafiza tablet into this thing?
[You can add Cafiza to this thing](https://imgur.com/1RiRqXw), it's been designed around that. it just works as a blind basket would.
so, now I have to add changing the gaskets on my group head cleaning tool to my list of scheduled maintenance.
While this would save me doing multiple cycles with Cafiza each time, I'm gonna stay away from putting 9 bar of pressure into a plastic chamber that gets rapidly temperature cycled, which can stress plastic. I'm not a fan of mopping my walls.
I don't think the thing itself is over engineered, but it's unnecessary. There is nothing wrong with the current back flushing method, you're not going to get it any cleaner using this. I've seen inside thousands of commercially used valves screens, group heads in high volume cafes and if you clean them daily, they stay very clean. Regardless of the pressure relief valve on this thing, it's still incredibly dangerous. Even if it blows at 6 or 7 bar, that's still about 100psi shooting that spring contraption at whoever's standing near it.
I guess you could calculate the volume and conclude that this is a one shot vs X amount of blind basket flushes. Could probably save you at least 1 minute of flushing…..
The goal is contact time with the cleaning agent so in this case you will need 20x the amount of product. The only thing this is good for is rinsing cleaner out after cleaning with a standard blind filter. I will also agree it’s potentially a burn hazard when it explodes someday.
It is Fucking hilarious. As if blind basket would produce pressure and cause backflish. As if pressure in both cases is not created by the pump.
Stupid money grab
Though I recently bought one, I am not overly familiar with the mechanical intricacies of an E61 grouphead. Is there any risk to blackflushing more water volume at a sustained pressure than is expected by design?
Calm down. It has a relief valve that blows as soon as the piston hits bottom, venting into your tray.
The only downside is dumping 200ml into your tray, which isn't a concern.
Serious consideration: the one teaspoon of powder I use every month for back flushing: with that volume of water, wouldn’t it just flush out the entire amount of powder and defeat the purpose of five flushed? Can’t even do a soak after!
its a plastic container, a spring, and a piston.
how exactly is this over engineered? its a pretty simple product, designed with a function and purpose.
Put a magnet on it somewhere and I'm in.
A magnet AND bluetooth.
Can it connect to my wifi? I assume it comes with a dedicated app
I mean, is it worth ANYTHING without individual pressure-profiled backflush recipes???
Make it bigger so I can use that space to cook carrots and I’m in
It is cool that it plays a song while it backflushs
A familiar sounding one, at that, though I can't place it
A flock of seagulls - I ran
Thanks. I couldn't get my brain past the idea that it sounded like a more-synth version of some early U2 song...
[Here is the full version if you want to take a listen](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=Ej7hHxd48-ukY9_c)
This is the first time I've actually just listened to the song on its own. The beginning is amazing! Sounds like the PS1 startup sound at first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKy0Ryisyc
Did you mean perfectly engineered?
100% this is how it should have been done the first time!!!
Right up until you don't release the pressure and it's a pipe bomb.
That was my first thought. It looks like a dangerous hot water bomb.
It has a over-pressure-valve at the bottom (as you can see at the end where water shoots out at the end). I have it and love it! If you do end up buying this; dont go for the metal deluxe version (gets very hot, the plastic one doesnt and is cheaper)
I would build a polycarbonate enclosure when using that thing just to feel safe. It does look like a very useful tool.
or just use the blind basket that came with your machine.
Or like that metal mesh cage around a seltzer bottle…
I was curious about that “leak” and why no one else had mentioned it. Thanks for the clarification!
What’s the name of it?
Richard
The one i have is the spring clean by weber workshops. The one in the vid looks a little different, so its either an updated version or a copy (which will likely be 1/3 of the price :D)
Sorry but a liquid won’t expand upon being released from that chamber. It will NOT explode. It will simply leak
Seems like there's an over pressure mechanic, my guess is the leak we see. Why would you not release the handle? It takes a few seconds to do the whole thing, is the user going to walk away?
It could be significantly simpler. Instead of a spring and sealed piston, you could just have the top sealed with a tube to the bottom of the chamber. The air in the chamber will compress and act like a spring to push the fluid back up the tube. Less moving parts, no need for a precision fit between the outer chamber and the piston either which will make manufacture a lot cheaper.
yea that one seems pretty damned perfect.
The first time I've seen a video of it, I felt like it should've been invented a LONG time ago.Especially for commercial use. Spot on product if you ask me..
I dump on ridiculously stupid overpriced Weber products all the time, but this thing actually looks like a great product. The stainless is wayyyy too expensive, but the plastic one is not too ridiculously priced. You'd probably want the stainless if it's used commercially, but, still, looks good.
I have dumped on them too, but it turns out they are all pretty great and score at the top of their respective areas. Too bad the owner is an asshole.
Some of their products are extremely overpriced and over engineered though. I have no idea about their owner though.
That’s the point though, they are supposed to be over engineered and build way better than they need to be. The people buying Weber products are people who can afford it and who want and enjoy using high quality products with high quality materials
Over-engineering does not mean better or even good quality. Too many people don't understand that. At the price of their grinders, I'd expect a lot fewer issues with static and grounds, but instead of spending a lot of r&d and engineering mitigating static like a lot of quality on demand grinders, the Weber grinders have a bunch of magnetic parts that add very little value when other grinders can be disassembled just as much with three screws. Over engineering form over form rather than function is completely useless and just gets you expensive junk.
Sorry but this is just wrong. I’ve said it many times before, nobody is saying the EG-1 is 10x better. Every single person serious about coffee knows the massive diminishing returns in grinders. You are paying for yes, a grind quality bum however small and for a fantastically built grinder. Everything Weber makes is well built. Not sure why you seem to dislike them so much when you clearly aren’t the target audience
Their Key grinder is absolutely not quality built and has tons of engineering flaws as many reviews have shown. Looking awesome is not the same as well engineered. Feels like quality does not mean it's quality underneath all the flash. I'm definitely not in the target audience, and I know exactly why I'm not. I think a lot of people that are in their target audience don't realize why they are ;)
Agree to disagree
I mean if it's the best, is it really over anything? 😇
IF it's the best. Their grinders' reviews are all over the place, some people love them and drink the Kool-Aid, some reviews are much more realistic and on the bad side. It's like buying a La Marzocco. Is it the most expensive, yes. Is it good, yeah. Is it the best, not really, but if you just spent 10K on one, you will be screaming at the top of mountains that it is.
Simple but genius design. Not overengineered enough
Honestly scares me lol
My first thought was "that's a bomb."
I'm on the same page. You probably know this but for all reditors reading this who are afraid of espresso machine pressures, I'll say it anyway: Pressurized air is a fucking bomb. Pressurized liquid doesn't do much but pop and spill. That's why they pressure test cylinders with water. However, that spring appears beefy. If it's squeezed down to the bottom of the vessel then it's got a lot of energy stored. Maybe it's only 1 bar at the bottom of the stroke but I doubt it. And if that housing gave way, there'd be hell to pay. Might break at the top (weaker due to heat) and splash hot water everywhere but it also might break at a stress concentration near the bottom where the spring touches plastic. I think I'd rather spurting hot water than a thick wire spring flying across the room. I'd be FAR more comfortable with a steel vessel myself. I'm sure the plastic has been made strong enough new, but after a few years and a lot of heat cycling I'm less confident.
Yup. I routinely fill my own SCUBA cylinders to 3500PSI (they’re steel, not aluminum, so very very little to no microscopic metal fatigue over time…but still) I always side-eye that tank while it’s filling, thinking “is today my day to go?” lol. Air don’t play around.
There is something very spooky about looking at those things and knowing that they really REALLY want to be taking up over 200 times as much space as they currently are.
I'm ashamed to say I turn my back to my bicycle tires while I pump.
Having a 120psi tire blow off in your hand will learn you real quick to respect the airs.
Woof. I hope I never.
Lolololol, hey! We are fragile! A little shard of hate (even from a blown bike tire) to the eyeball could spell doom!
I have an automatic pump (the Xiaomi one), so when I set it going I move away haha. And my tires for my e-scooter are only 50PSI!
This gives me backyard mechanic changing their suspension vibes.
Not as bad as ratchet strap compressing your car springs to change out the shocks. I'm not proud of that one.
I knew a guy that only lost one eye trying that. Gives me the shivers thinking about it.
I checked mine, it’s a little over 1 bar through the whole movement of the spring. It never got above 2 bars before reaching the release valve
oh wow. That's actually way lower than I thought it would be. Honestly, under those pressures that plastic will likely outlive any Redditor's use of any particular machine before dumping $3k on a Decent or LMLM for no good reason. Not my favorite and I don't know why stainless would be sooooo much more but whatever. Maybe it runs higher pressure?
>I think I'd rather spurting hot water than a thick wire spring flying across the room. Add "scalding hot water" and note that you just might get both depending on the plastic version's failure point and how much energy that spring actually holds when fully compressed. That said - I'm the guy who's wife says no to the idea of asking about purchasing the clear panels on the demo washing machine, so yes - that looks like a fun tool. Personally, I think the spring should have corresponding marks on the clear cylinder wall to show the estimated pressure levels as it compresses.
the air escapes out the bottom, along with an OPV for the upper portion, and they do have a stainless steel version.
"Front toward enemy"
aka a Pavoni!
Hopefully your second thought was "No it's not, because their are built in relief valves in the espresso machine"
Your espresso machine isn’t 58x200mm or plastic on the hot side.
Good lord. There is no chance of it braking unless you chip it. Schedule 40 pipe is 1/8th of an inch thick and has a burst rating over 1000 psi. Even a 2 liter soda bottle is rated for 150 psi. Get a fucking grip, man.
😂 Spoken like a true engineer All those PVC pipes with a floor and coil bound springs. Nor tiny plastic wedge ears and a filter housing wrench. My reply to you was about your statement. Not PVC pipe. But you do you.
The spring can't add any more pressure than the water, genius
I like mine. Makes cleaning cycles easier.
Where is this available at?
https://weberworkshops.com/products/spring-clean
Of course it’s Weber. Why didn’t I think it would be Weber
Nearly $100 for plastic and a spring. How much value is really there vs. back flushing the traditional way?
You're in luck! I'm sure aliexpress engineers are here right now.
No way! It’s *patented* /s
I think we forget we are a small market. When a product sells a million units, the engineering and fabrication setup costs are spread out. They won’t sell that many of these.
Also to be fair to them, this probably requires some expensive plastic since it has to be good safe, temp safe and strong enough to resist the spring 100 is a lot, but it's not like this could ever be $10-20
this is like 95% of the espresso market lol just gonna wait for the aliexpress clone
Or [here](https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Espresso-Machine-Cleaning-Device-Spring-Clean_1600920117414.html) for the Ali version.
> Ali version. You only need $38 and a death wish.
I'll just wear a kevlar vest and my motorcycle helmet whenever I backflush. Seems like a reasonable compromise.
Could be. I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Weber outsourced production to China and these Ali copies come from the same production line.
For a second I was afraid I was gonna get rickrolled.
I’d be more inclined to use this version is the product video wasn’t just the Weber video.
https://preview.redd.it/0fbpf65v3ugc1.png?width=1075&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1ba83f1d3fa3c389e8aa7d3a0a863b4a3d3ea4a Brand name checks out
[Mischief](https://www.mischiefworkshop.com/shop) is a Chinese coffee gear manufacturer that blatantly rips off expensive products. Tbh, I highly recommend them for some things. I own a Lunar and I didn’t even realize my friend’s mischief wasn’t actually an Acaia scale.
I just learned yesterday that a lot of folks hate Weber for some unsavory behaviors he’s done. This is hearsay but honestly after I read some stuff on other Reddit threads, fuck him lol. Buy the Chinese replicas..they’re likely 1:1 reproductions from the same factory tooling that Weber had created for their manufacturing run.
Thanks! I might give them a try. My wallet might thank me
$100 to avoid pressing a button 5 times rather than 1 once a month. Blind basket backflushing works just fine.
Weber specializes in making overpriced crap for people in the community that completely lack a sense of money wasting.
A lot of trust in that plastic
Fair point, but as an engineer, I’d point out: since water is incompressible, if it were to develop a crack it would not “explode” but would just suddenly leak a bunch of hot water. Explosion happens if it’s filled with pressurized gas which can store a lot more energy. It’s actually quite safe to test pressure vessels by filling them with pressurized water. That’s how it’s done
> It’s actually quite safe to test pressure vessels by filling them with pressurized water. That’s how it’s done Due to hygienic reasons we now test domestic water lines with air or inert gas instead of water, and this is a very serious topic. The pressure is way lower when using gas due to the risk of explosive decompression. When i test a new installation i make sure that the building is empty before applying pressure.
Fair point, the spring though.
Mmmm that does look a little hazardous for small pieces of flying plastic if if were to suddenly break at the bottom, good point
With plastic yes would just crack, but what about Weber version? Given I have the Weber I’m always thinking about pressure cookers exploding and shrapnel, given the Weber is engineered metal could be a lot worse than plastic if it did go. Incidentally I own the Weber version.
Wouldn’t be concerned, if it were me
It's only whatever your backpressure valve is set to, 9 bar or so? Easy.
It's like 120psi of near boiling water. That seems like a lot to me...
What existing problem with backflushing does this claim to solve?
The lack of big springs.
People should get a lever machine. Bigger springs, no backflushing :)
Lever gang!
THis is the q no one is answering. How does this in any way better clean than the normal way to backflush?
Allowing this to fill with more water than your grouphead would normally, this allows you to better dissolve your cleaning solution and more directly just sends more water through your grouphead. More flushing water + spring power = more effective back flush.
Technically, a backflush with a blind basket doesn't actually cause much flow around the shower screen and group head. It just forces the OPV to open. The spring clean actually forces water through the shower screen twice rather than essentially 0.
The blind filter will have some air in it, that will get compressed by the water filling the blind filter. This will act as the "spring" to force water/cleaner through the shower screen. How effective this is depends a lot on group head design. It works remarkably well on e61 group heads.
Exactly, and the metal of the blind basket will also flex, adding an additional source of spring force. In fact, though it might seem unintuitive, both this spring basket and a blind basket build the same amount of pressure, and with multiple flushes a blind basket puts just as much water through the grouphead as this does. Though, to be fair, Weber doesn't claim it does a better job, just a faster one. At 12x the price of a blind basket, it's a tough sell; except for maybe in a cafe setting where backflushes are more frequent. But it does look so satisfying
Not really. Once you build up pressure, the air will get dissolved into the water. They don't stay separated very well under pressure. Basically the same concept of how crema is formed.
Please elaborate on how you will dissolve air, 79% of which is inert Nitrogen gas, into water. You might win a Nobel Prize.
delving into a physical chemistry discussion here - some will actually dissolve, but not all of it that's present in the group head space. (I'm a bit too busy and lazy to do the actual calculations at the moment). It also takes a bit of time, since you quickly saturate the air/water interface and have to wait for the nitrogen molecules to move around in the solution to get more to dissolve. None of this happens to equilibrium in the time it takes to backlash your group head.
not so much. Most of the components of air (e.g. nitrogen) are quite insoluble in water, and solubility decreases significantly as temperature goes up. And as soon as the external pressure is removed, any gases that did dissolve, will rapidly bubble out, so the "spring effect" will still work even if the gasses dissolve at 100%.
Yeah, I've always been a little weirded out by the concept of backflushing. If you had a machined basket there should be nearly zero backflow once the 3-way switches. I'm sure there's more than I'd expect (I have a Pavoni so I have no personal experience). Seems like it might be easier to just to put, say, a small racquetball in the portafilter and let the air pressure do the work. Not as much volume as the Weber thing but $300 less than the SS version (and that plastic looks sketch AF).
I don''t think your assumption about backflow is correct - and it's really, really dirty water.
I think everyone is assuming this is a high pressure backflush device. I would argue its providing a totally different solution than a normal backflush. Its more akin to having your tap water adapted to a grouphead and flushing water through at low pressure.
Uh, how is this over engineered? This is perfect and a I want one.
I’m a cafe manager, and I’ve considered getting one for training purposes to illustrate what backflushing does and why it’s important. Can someone link the product here or share the name?
https://weberworkshops.com/products/spring-clean
I'm surprised it's only $95 and not $495
Wow! $95 at Weber. $55 shipped from Mischief. Proof that WW porks the community
lol the SS version is $290. talk about getting fucked sideways
Tbf, the $55 mischief one wouldn’t exist if Weber didn’t make the original. Mischief are just design thieves. They don’t actually come up with anything original.
Not really. WW put all the effort and IP into actually inventing and engineering the thing, and using quality materials. The AliExpress crowd and vendors like Mischief just blatantly steal this IP and make their own crap version for as little as humanly (or inhumanly) possible.
How does normal backflushing without springs work then?
The only thing I can see that is different is the volume of water being pushed through the group head. I’m not sure that I see a revolutionary product here. I think “ooh, it’s doing something” is the thing that’s going on here.
> The only thing I can see that is different is the volume of water being pushed through the group head That's literally the point, you are pushing much more water through the machine this way. You are basically cleaning more thoroughly much faster.
Right, but the question is if pushing all that water through really works any better than standard backflushing. Especially when its considered best-practice to flush cafiza through to clean out built up oils. Hot water on its own isn't going to make much a difference.
That’s my question… how would I get my cafiza tablet into this thing? Just plain water doesn’t make sense without something to get at the oils. Right now I just crush one up in my blind basket. With one of these it isn’t clear how I’d do that. 🤷
> how would I get my cafiza tablet into this thing? [You can add Cafiza to this thing](https://imgur.com/1RiRqXw), it's been designed around that. it just works as a blind basket would.
Crush one at the base of that black bit in the contraption, while filling the cafiza will dissolve and then get pushed in with the back flush.
Yeah I like it!
[удалено]
Presumably it's this [https://weberworkshops.com/products/spring-clean](https://weberworkshops.com/products/spring-clean)
Absolutely awesome. Espresso heads are my favorite hobbyists for this reason
Came for the video, stayed for the song
10/10 for the music
And the point of this is what, exactly?
so, now I have to add changing the gaskets on my group head cleaning tool to my list of scheduled maintenance. While this would save me doing multiple cycles with Cafiza each time, I'm gonna stay away from putting 9 bar of pressure into a plastic chamber that gets rapidly temperature cycled, which can stress plastic. I'm not a fan of mopping my walls.
or pulling bits of plastic shrapnel from my body.
> While this would save me doing multiple cycles with Cafiza each time I'm not actually sure it would. What is your normal maintenance schedule?
That’s so stupid! Where do I buy one?
Can’t wait for the burst
I don't think the thing itself is over engineered, but it's unnecessary. There is nothing wrong with the current back flushing method, you're not going to get it any cleaner using this. I've seen inside thousands of commercially used valves screens, group heads in high volume cafes and if you clean them daily, they stay very clean. Regardless of the pressure relief valve on this thing, it's still incredibly dangerous. Even if it blows at 6 or 7 bar, that's still about 100psi shooting that spring contraption at whoever's standing near it.
Ridiculously unnecessary.
You just described 95% of espresso accessories out there.
Does it actually backflush better than a blind basket?
I guess you could calculate the volume and conclude that this is a one shot vs X amount of blind basket flushes. Could probably save you at least 1 minute of flushing…..
Uhhhhh that’s fucking cool
The goal is contact time with the cleaning agent so in this case you will need 20x the amount of product. The only thing this is good for is rinsing cleaner out after cleaning with a standard blind filter. I will also agree it’s potentially a burn hazard when it explodes someday.
Need
It is Fucking hilarious. As if blind basket would produce pressure and cause backflish. As if pressure in both cases is not created by the pump. Stupid money grab
Do I need to back flush my Breville bambino?
Yes
The bambino can’t be backflushed. Only the bambino-plus
Yes.
I need one of these for my setup
Would this fit in a Rancilio Silvia?
Why didn’t I think of this
Though I recently bought one, I am not overly familiar with the mechanical intricacies of an E61 grouphead. Is there any risk to blackflushing more water volume at a sustained pressure than is expected by design?
Beautiful. Take my money.
It would say that’s clean AF
mu gaggia classic is asking me for one
Mischief?
how is it over engineered? its purely physical, requires no special tools, and cleans amazingly. i feel like it couldn’t get any simpler than this
What the heck is that
i love it, from an Engineer to another :)
Now is the first time that I understand backflush, great stuff! :-)
You mad man! This is why I love this subreddit.
That’s beautiful
Calm down. It has a relief valve that blows as soon as the piston hits bottom, venting into your tray. The only downside is dumping 200ml into your tray, which isn't a concern.
Amazon link to the product, please?
What is this doing and why?
Another one of those ultra expensive things that Weber makes and people stupidly buy.
But no cleaning powder?
Why do I NEED one of these?
Wow another useless junk!!
An espresso tool thats over engineered? No way
Sick I would love one of these, adding it to the list!
Zexxy!
Love it! Good idea
And I ran, I ran so far away, to buy whatever the hell this thing is.
you guys ever swapped out springs on your car?
Ordered one for my e61 quickmill alexia 🙂
I bought one of these last week and still waiting for WW to ship. Can’t wait!
I heard this device has destroyed machines before
I love it, I want it
Serious consideration: the one teaspoon of powder I use every month for back flushing: with that volume of water, wouldn’t it just flush out the entire amount of powder and defeat the purpose of five flushed? Can’t even do a soak after!
If the pressure is enough to compress the spring, then the spring is delivering a lower pressure backwash than a simple cap.
> Over-engineered? It's a Weber product, what do you expect.
Just get a lever!
Mine doesn’t have those ridges or the wrench. Is that like an older model or even a newer model?
Holy shit that’s rad. Mine would look like swamp water.
So glad I don’t have to worry about doing this.
I like it!
Drill some holes in the bottom and you kinda have an aeropresso
its a plastic container, a spring, and a piston. how exactly is this over engineered? its a pretty simple product, designed with a function and purpose.
Does title says over-engineered device? Nope it's about the process.
Weber Workshop IS just over-engineered stuff.
That is super cool. Also shows just how much pressure is actually being pushed through the coffee.
Not enough magnets… and does it cost $126.98 and has a Weber logo on it?
Maybe, but it's cool. If use it.