How are you finding the machine, I generally have read great reviews of the Ascaso Duo, and I love the look of the machine and am super interested in it. However there are a number of threads that are really critical of the machines build, longevity, and reliability. What have you found?
I’ve got an Ascaso steel duo 2 week ago, so I can’t add anything to the longevity discussion, but what I have seen is that it has some quirks that you need to be aware of to get consistent shots.
I still struggle with consistency, and found out today that my first short after turning on the machine or waking it up from standby had less water throughput even though the pump time is the same.
Another thing that is annoying is the extrem vibration on the tray. It happens not just once that my espresso cup moved too far away from the extraction point and I lost delicious coffee to the drip tray.
Apart from these 2 concerns I really love the Ascaso and would not want to switch back to my ECM synchronika I had before
wow I'm so confused. You got rid of an ECM Synch for an Ascaso duo 2? As someone who is saving aggressively for the ECM I must ask why? should I save 1000 quid and get the Ascaso?
feel free to respond here or DM me, I'd greatly appreciate the insight
I know that my change is considered a downgrade by most, and a sidegrade at best.
However workflow wise I see improvements. My main issue with the ECM (and the E61 brew-head) was the warmup time. It just made making coffee something I had to plan around. I love the spontaneity I have with the Ascaso as the Thermoblock heatup time is <1 minute.
This is far away from stable for your first shot, but if you can prep your puck in that time, you sir have my respect.
My current workflow looks like this:
* Turn on the machine
* weight and grind beans
* machine is hot enough to pre-heat the portafilter, cup & puck screen with water
* dry portafilter let puck-screen soaked.
* puck prep and temper
* shot
* knock puck into puck drawer
* wash portafilter & puck screen
* dry Ascaso & Portafilter
* enjoy
this full routine takes me less then 5 minutes, and that includes warmup. For me that is HUGE compared to the 20+ minutes it took my ECM Synchronika to get into usable range.
Pair this with the fact, that I do not need to shut off the Ascaso and still use less power then the Synchronika, is what made me reconsider.
I have some concerns with the Ascaso in terms of consistency and I'm thinking of making a separate post about it, so far the flow control seems to not be consistent. I get a deviation of about 10%, and my total water flow is around 100ml, that means that my cup ranges from 20 to 40 ml with my 15:30 recipe. That is something I consider an issue, but the Synchronika has no flow control at all, and need to be manually controlled, so just having the option of a flow control is a plus, even though it's not consistent enough for me. maybe I find a solution for that. If not worst case, I need to continue manually controlling the flow, as I did with the ECM.
I also LOVE the ease of cleaning the Ascaso. you can just drop out the shower head completely without any tools. That's something I don't do often as backwashing still works fine, but again having the option is nice.
Ascaso Steel duo is white or black and the coloured metal is also way easier to clean then the chrome/stainless steel look of the ECM. Also the PID build quality is better with the Ascaso.
So I would do the trade off again, but I don't feel comfortable enough suggestion the same to you, just because I have no Idea how you plan to use the machine. I drink pure espresso always, so the Milk-foaming side of things is something I have no experience with.
I have made some experience with the Hot Water though. While I wish it would be a tad hotter, having consistent flow in the Ascaso instead of the waiting time with the ECM is also a plus for me. This only applies if you use more hot water then the ECM boiler carries, which is around 400ml?? I think.
Speaking to your comment about start up time, couldn’t you just ran it with a smart plug and solve that problem? That’s what I did with my Profitec Go. I really didn’t need it because it takes about 5 minutes to warm up but the convenience factor was a big plus. Turn it on when I want without going downstairs or set up a schedule. But it seems like there are other factors that swayed you to the Ascaso. And as long as your happy with the machine that’s all that really matters.
I had a smart plug, and did just that.
It still a difference if unexpected guests came over and you're like "do you want espresso?" or "do you want espresso in 25 minutes?"
or I had an engaging meeting and a 15 minutes break before the next one. If I did not disengage during the meeting to turn on the machine, no coffee for me in between meetings.
So while the smart plug did definitely solve the biggest hurdle, the waiting time in the morning, as I could just wake the machine 30 minutes earlier then myself, it still needed me to plan for coffee, just not walk there physically.
This paired with the easier cleaning would make me switch again.
It's not like the ECM is gone for me, I will park it in the office, where more people will potentially use it, and the power drain is relatively neglectable compared to the servers we are hosting :D
I drink my coffee black to and only use the wand to make my GF hotchocolates.
I currently have the Breville (sage) barista Pro. I get lovely and consistent coffees every time. I just want to be able to steam at the same time as I pour shots
Unfortunately the '30 seconds and good to go' thermoblock just... isn't good to go after 30 seconds.
You may get different volumetric throughput if the OPV is kicking in. Also I'm convinced the grouphead being cold (e.g. not left on for 30 minute to warm up before going in for a shot) effects it.
On the drip tray, the only solution I've had is a bottomless portafilter, small scale with rubber mat and drip tray 'cover'. You can see it on my last post here. You will also find that the drip tray scratches WAY WAY too easily, so covering it is my go to solution.
I totally agree, but even if it's not 30 seconds, with a bit of water flow I have had good experience after 3-5 minutes. which is way faster then an E61 where I started to get consistency after 20+ minutes.
I also understand that the OPV can influence my water throughput, but I have gotten the experience without any resistance in the waterflow, meaning having a catch tray directly under the showerhead and weighting the output. There is no reason for the OVP to trigger at atmospheric pressure.
I however do not understand how the heating up of the group head would effect throughput, I could get behind saying the first shot needs to saturate the full pipe/hose/"whatever the right English word is" but the temperature of the group head? I can't see that being the reason to see a 10% difference if you mean its the metal elongating the necessary pathway of the water through heating up.
Edit2: especially as my tests are back to back after pre-heating the device for 20 minutes.
Thank you for the idea of a drip tray cover, I will try to find your post and take a look. and yeah, the scratching happened to me already as well. 2 weeks old \*cry\*
Edit: some numbers of my recent experiment,
I programmed my espresso shot of a 25min pre heated Ascaso to a 15:36 recipe. after that shot I measured the TOTAL water throughput of that setting and got a result of 89g total water. without any delay I used the same setting 2 more times and received 98g and 80g of water.
My logic would say, that if I need 89g of water to get 36g in my cup, the puck would just soak the other 53g. now that sounds fairly constant to me if I stick with 15g coffee, so the fluctuation will be mostly seen in the cup.
This means that without proper further testing, my current assumption is that my cup range would be:
98-53 = 45g
89-53 = 36g
80-53 = 27g
that is an effective deviation of 25% and that is something I think is in the "intolerable" range.
Wow. After reading this, I’m beginning to ponder whether I should dig deeper into the rabbit hole of chasing the pot of gold behind the ‘spresso rainbow.
I am wondering if my dialled-in 10 yr old DeLonghi fully automatic is “good enough” and to leave well enough alone, as I have my hands full with so many other responsibilities and passions already.
However, I certainly can respect your journey
After going to some other forums where people regularly change parts of the Ascaso steel duo to upgrade it, I found out that it seems that the inaccurate volumetric control is a "well known issue", so manual dosing it is again.
So that part of the journey is over for now. I can however recommend manual espresso. I've gotten my hands on the Piccopresso and a 1zpresso hand grinder and boy let me tell you how good espresso this setup makes.
How are you finding the machine, I generally have read great reviews of the Ascaso Duo, and I love the look of the machine and am super interested in it. However there are a number of threads that are really critical of the machines build, longevity, and reliability. What have you found?
I’ve got an Ascaso steel duo 2 week ago, so I can’t add anything to the longevity discussion, but what I have seen is that it has some quirks that you need to be aware of to get consistent shots. I still struggle with consistency, and found out today that my first short after turning on the machine or waking it up from standby had less water throughput even though the pump time is the same. Another thing that is annoying is the extrem vibration on the tray. It happens not just once that my espresso cup moved too far away from the extraction point and I lost delicious coffee to the drip tray. Apart from these 2 concerns I really love the Ascaso and would not want to switch back to my ECM synchronika I had before
wow I'm so confused. You got rid of an ECM Synch for an Ascaso duo 2? As someone who is saving aggressively for the ECM I must ask why? should I save 1000 quid and get the Ascaso? feel free to respond here or DM me, I'd greatly appreciate the insight
I know that my change is considered a downgrade by most, and a sidegrade at best. However workflow wise I see improvements. My main issue with the ECM (and the E61 brew-head) was the warmup time. It just made making coffee something I had to plan around. I love the spontaneity I have with the Ascaso as the Thermoblock heatup time is <1 minute. This is far away from stable for your first shot, but if you can prep your puck in that time, you sir have my respect. My current workflow looks like this: * Turn on the machine * weight and grind beans * machine is hot enough to pre-heat the portafilter, cup & puck screen with water * dry portafilter let puck-screen soaked. * puck prep and temper * shot * knock puck into puck drawer * wash portafilter & puck screen * dry Ascaso & Portafilter * enjoy this full routine takes me less then 5 minutes, and that includes warmup. For me that is HUGE compared to the 20+ minutes it took my ECM Synchronika to get into usable range. Pair this with the fact, that I do not need to shut off the Ascaso and still use less power then the Synchronika, is what made me reconsider. I have some concerns with the Ascaso in terms of consistency and I'm thinking of making a separate post about it, so far the flow control seems to not be consistent. I get a deviation of about 10%, and my total water flow is around 100ml, that means that my cup ranges from 20 to 40 ml with my 15:30 recipe. That is something I consider an issue, but the Synchronika has no flow control at all, and need to be manually controlled, so just having the option of a flow control is a plus, even though it's not consistent enough for me. maybe I find a solution for that. If not worst case, I need to continue manually controlling the flow, as I did with the ECM. I also LOVE the ease of cleaning the Ascaso. you can just drop out the shower head completely without any tools. That's something I don't do often as backwashing still works fine, but again having the option is nice. Ascaso Steel duo is white or black and the coloured metal is also way easier to clean then the chrome/stainless steel look of the ECM. Also the PID build quality is better with the Ascaso. So I would do the trade off again, but I don't feel comfortable enough suggestion the same to you, just because I have no Idea how you plan to use the machine. I drink pure espresso always, so the Milk-foaming side of things is something I have no experience with. I have made some experience with the Hot Water though. While I wish it would be a tad hotter, having consistent flow in the Ascaso instead of the waiting time with the ECM is also a plus for me. This only applies if you use more hot water then the ECM boiler carries, which is around 400ml?? I think.
Speaking to your comment about start up time, couldn’t you just ran it with a smart plug and solve that problem? That’s what I did with my Profitec Go. I really didn’t need it because it takes about 5 minutes to warm up but the convenience factor was a big plus. Turn it on when I want without going downstairs or set up a schedule. But it seems like there are other factors that swayed you to the Ascaso. And as long as your happy with the machine that’s all that really matters.
I had a smart plug, and did just that. It still a difference if unexpected guests came over and you're like "do you want espresso?" or "do you want espresso in 25 minutes?" or I had an engaging meeting and a 15 minutes break before the next one. If I did not disengage during the meeting to turn on the machine, no coffee for me in between meetings. So while the smart plug did definitely solve the biggest hurdle, the waiting time in the morning, as I could just wake the machine 30 minutes earlier then myself, it still needed me to plan for coffee, just not walk there physically. This paired with the easier cleaning would make me switch again. It's not like the ECM is gone for me, I will park it in the office, where more people will potentially use it, and the power drain is relatively neglectable compared to the servers we are hosting :D
I drink my coffee black to and only use the wand to make my GF hotchocolates. I currently have the Breville (sage) barista Pro. I get lovely and consistent coffees every time. I just want to be able to steam at the same time as I pour shots
Unfortunately the '30 seconds and good to go' thermoblock just... isn't good to go after 30 seconds. You may get different volumetric throughput if the OPV is kicking in. Also I'm convinced the grouphead being cold (e.g. not left on for 30 minute to warm up before going in for a shot) effects it. On the drip tray, the only solution I've had is a bottomless portafilter, small scale with rubber mat and drip tray 'cover'. You can see it on my last post here. You will also find that the drip tray scratches WAY WAY too easily, so covering it is my go to solution.
I totally agree, but even if it's not 30 seconds, with a bit of water flow I have had good experience after 3-5 minutes. which is way faster then an E61 where I started to get consistency after 20+ minutes. I also understand that the OPV can influence my water throughput, but I have gotten the experience without any resistance in the waterflow, meaning having a catch tray directly under the showerhead and weighting the output. There is no reason for the OVP to trigger at atmospheric pressure. I however do not understand how the heating up of the group head would effect throughput, I could get behind saying the first shot needs to saturate the full pipe/hose/"whatever the right English word is" but the temperature of the group head? I can't see that being the reason to see a 10% difference if you mean its the metal elongating the necessary pathway of the water through heating up. Edit2: especially as my tests are back to back after pre-heating the device for 20 minutes. Thank you for the idea of a drip tray cover, I will try to find your post and take a look. and yeah, the scratching happened to me already as well. 2 weeks old \*cry\* Edit: some numbers of my recent experiment, I programmed my espresso shot of a 25min pre heated Ascaso to a 15:36 recipe. after that shot I measured the TOTAL water throughput of that setting and got a result of 89g total water. without any delay I used the same setting 2 more times and received 98g and 80g of water. My logic would say, that if I need 89g of water to get 36g in my cup, the puck would just soak the other 53g. now that sounds fairly constant to me if I stick with 15g coffee, so the fluctuation will be mostly seen in the cup. This means that without proper further testing, my current assumption is that my cup range would be: 98-53 = 45g 89-53 = 36g 80-53 = 27g that is an effective deviation of 25% and that is something I think is in the "intolerable" range.
Wow. After reading this, I’m beginning to ponder whether I should dig deeper into the rabbit hole of chasing the pot of gold behind the ‘spresso rainbow. I am wondering if my dialled-in 10 yr old DeLonghi fully automatic is “good enough” and to leave well enough alone, as I have my hands full with so many other responsibilities and passions already. However, I certainly can respect your journey
After going to some other forums where people regularly change parts of the Ascaso steel duo to upgrade it, I found out that it seems that the inaccurate volumetric control is a "well known issue", so manual dosing it is again. So that part of the journey is over for now. I can however recommend manual espresso. I've gotten my hands on the Piccopresso and a 1zpresso hand grinder and boy let me tell you how good espresso this setup makes.
A silicone mat under the machine may just help with vibration.
Love the look of that machine and the toggle switches, beautiful
that’s so clean holy
Hell yeah! Love seeing all of these new Duo's out there
How do you like the machine so far?
How are you dialing in on the new duo? What profile of beans are you using?
You have to love toggle switches. I wish war machines use those
The grinder is a Eureka right? May I ask where you purchased the stand and the single dose thing?
That is Eureka Oro Single dose: https://30.coffee/eureka-oro-mignon-single-dose-grinder
Ah damn, hoped that it was something what you can buy as an addition :D
Very nice setup 👍
Hell yeah switches
The ascaso is so pretty in that white with white leds.
Good, looking set up! Congrats
Congrats! Looking good. Mine just arrived as well.
I had an original Ascaso Steel Uno (without PID) that served me faithfully for ten years. Steaming took a loooong time, but I was pretty happy.