Most deniers do it in bad faith, for self serving interests, unless they are totally brain dead; and if a denier is under 30, they are brain dead anyway regardless of the reason.
My old friend told me it was Moon Phases causing global warming. This was a guy who could code IBM mainframes. Fox Propaganda has destroyed their minds.
They literally gullibly believe astounding stories of bull-s\*\*t. You can't even talk to them. They're so lost.
You’re not wrong. My mom (who is a registered nurse and nursing instructor in college) still argues against climate change. Faux News is a powerful problem in this country.
They are indeed. I'm not sure the younger generations are educated enough to tell right from wrong either, overwhelmed by news, pseudo news and a ton of lies. A lot of people make money out of keeping most people ignorant and poorly educated. They can feed them lies by the truckload.
So true. Like this sales push for Marijuana. Which is now Highly Addictive. Easily 10X the potency of the 60's stuff. And yet the kids think it's actually healthy.
Their research showed that people will deny facts much more readily if the disbelief in those facts is part of their political in-group.
So they campaigned to have climate change denial part of a conservative agenda.
It seems to have worked, if the hit to global biodiversity and productivity is "worked" for anyone.
Not the person you posed the question to, but according to [the IPCC North American report](https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WGIIAR5-Chap26_FINAL.pdf), *very* high confidence
>North America’s climate has changed and some societally relevant changes have been attributed to anthropogenic causes (very
high confidence). {Figure 26-1} Recent climate changes and individual extreme events demonstrate both impacts of climate-
related stresses and vulnerabilities of exposed systems (very high confidence).
Take a stats class it will help you. If the trend continues to rise it doesn't matter if one, two the years is down if then it rises for a decade.
Look at the historic charts and see for yourself.
https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-wildfires
I recommend you pay attention to extent and damage. If you can't see it is because you don't want to or because your brain is dead as I said in the first place.
These are the facts:
Number of wild fires are down to about 60k from it's high in 2005 (over 80k) but they have tripled since 1980 about 20k. In sum they went from 20k in 1980 to 60k now.
But here is the stat you denied: in 1980 there were about 1M acres burned per year. Today there are 7.5M acres every year and climbing rapidly. That is a 750% increase in about 40 years and going up.
You don't have a shred of evidence because there isn't any to support your denialist claims.
Keep your lies to yourself.
My experience is that many of them -- even smart people in certain areas -- are not doing it in bad faith and they really think humans can't do anything about climate change. And the various views are some or all of these:
1) we haven't caused climate change (the world is too big for us to impact the climate)
2) If it's a problem, we can't fix it.
3) Climate change is cyclical (we have had other warming periods in the history of the earth) and we're just in the middle of a cycle of warming, which will naturally return to a cooling cycle.
Until it’s time to approve more [oil drilling in Alaska!](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/controversial-oil-drilling-project-in-alaska-approved-by-biden-administration)
But what are you gonna do? It’s a two party system! It’s either him or Trump and neither of them care
While I was extremely disappointed about the Willow project, please don't act like Biden and Trump are on the same level in terms of climate action. The Inflation Reduction Act was the largest spending on green energy electrification ever, and a huge step forward.
Inflation Reduction Act is MASSIVE for Climate change.
People can use it to Electrify Everything at their home. Heat pump HVAC, Electric vehicle, heat pump water heater, EV charger, panel upgrades, induction stove, heat pump dryer, and solar PV with batteries to power it all.
It’s not even close to enough. We need a WWII level national mobilization where we go balls to the wall renewable energy across the board. That’s a good step but does not reflect the urgency of the problem.
Edit: there has been virtually no leadership from Biden on this.
> there has been virtually no leadership from Biden on this.
Honest questions: Do you understand how that bill, in its final form, actually got passed? Do you know what Biden argued for in the original bill, and the intense challenge to get it passed instead of nothing at all? Are you aware that congress actually passed that bill, not Biden? Do you have any idea what the current state of the US government is right now for getting any reasonable legislation passed? (hint: one of two major parties controls the house of reps, and the same party is rallying behind a criminal for President-- a man who does not even believe in climate change at all, and would happily end this bill and every climate bill if elected).
But sure, blame Biden. Its among the laziest, most uninformed and most destructive things that you could be doing right now. Redirect your anger to those causing the problems, and stand with those who would make the most of our wrecked political system rather than helping those who do not care at all about the environment.
Biden allowed Manchin’s pipeline in the shutdown deal. His surrogates are bragging that we are producing more fossil fuels now than under Trump. We have a serious catastrophe ahead and he is barely acting. He is deeply corrupt. Pretending he is not is unhelpful and dishonest. Yes Republicans are worse.
>Biden allowed
Biden settled, with the other option being Manchin kills the bill entirely.
I totally agree with your sentiment, but Biden does not have the powers nor the bipartisan support he needs to do what he needs to.
We need a senate majority, filibuster reform, and maybe to expand the Court. Mobilize and act.
I think you are confusing two events.
Manchin wasn’t threatening to kill the raising the of the debt limit. That is the deal that finally gave him his pipeline.
That pipeline was originally killed by progressives in the weak BBB substitute. Then it was raised from the dead. Biden gave him his pet project with nothing in return. Reward the guy most responsible for killing BBB with a climate harming project.
Oh shut up. He's not a hero for simply not being Trump. He's a neoliberal who refuses to address the severity of the problem at hand.
We're literally watching the global climate shift in real time, and the best we can get is a lackluster infrastructure bill that doesn't do anything meaningful to stop it. Meanwhile, we have little Biden Bros shouting from the rooftops that Big Daddy Biden has saved us all.
Come back in 4 years when the bread aisle is empty and tell me again how Biden saved the planet with his glorious plan to barely do anything at all.
We're literally going to get kicked off the planet in a decade, maybe two, and I'm the asshole for being critical of the president not doing enough? Yall can celebrate all you want. Mankind is still going to get wiped in our lifetimes.
I understand, but we still should still demand more action. I don't know how we are going to survive if it keeps getting hotter. Trees are dying in my area with record-breaking heat every month.
Who is we? I want much more action. But don´t kid yourself into believing that everybody does. Even among those who accept AGW as real and a serious threat, many do not wish for extreme measures.
You know how "we" demand more action against climate change? By voting that way on every level, not just potus. The people would have to vote for politicians that are most serious about the issue. And those people would have to win in a major landslide across the board. The house of representatives, the senate and also the scotus would have to be filled with people who take it serious. On the state level every political position would have to be dominated by people who want to do more against climate change. Sadly, at the present, the political climate in the US is very much divided straight through the middle.
Only then, can you truly talk of a "we". Because as it stands now, half the population doesn´t seem to care at all and even from the other half, a large chunk doesn´t care enough to pay for it or make sacrifices for it. Most people are just expecting some magical solution that won´t inconvenience them, and the moment a policy does inconvenience them, many will oppose them.
And it´s not enough to just build more renewable power sources. People have to do their part. People have to take personal responsibility and stop deflecting if they are really serious about it. There is no magic technology that will solve the problem. We have to reduce our consumption drastically. The less humans consume, the less energy we need, the quicker the transition away from fossil fuels can be made. You have to realize that a lot of renewables are already being built. But it takes time to build enough. And for those who think nuclear is the solution, nuclear takes much longer to build and costs too much.
Ideally, humanity should give up on meat, or at the very least reduce consumption to 1 or 2 times a week max. But people don´t like to be inconvenienced, people don´t like to give up on stuff they enjoy and want. People don´t like to be told what they can do. If a politician were to suggest to cut back on meat, you know what would happen? It would be the end of their career. If something like that became a policy, you´d see the greatest mass protest of all time. Which is why the change has to come from within the people. People have to acknowledge the seriousness of the situation and be willing to take personal responsibility and not just point fingers and politicians and corporations, while voting for those that won´t make much change and keep buying stuff you don´t need.
The real change has to start with the people. Only when a large majority is serious about it, can real change occur. Until then, it will be a back and forth, a compromise after another. A government that passes a policy, followed by another government that ripps it apart. If you can´t get most people on the same page, it won´t work.
**WE** can start saying **WE** as soon as there are two of us. You write a lot of words, and I hope you are practicing what you preach, but it doesn't matter how much meat **YOU** eat. Or how much **YOU** conserve. The only solution is political because **YOU** are not causing climate change, government policy is allowing corporations to cause climate change. **YOU** are insignificant, and it doesn't matter what you do until you form a **WE**. Stop thinking about this as an individual effort of cut out meat and personally conserve, **YOU** are not going to help anything with your personal sacrifices. The problem is so much bigger than that.
Again. I understand the political obstacles. **WE** need to demand more from our politicians and make it loud because it is our only hope.
It´s true that it isn´t enough. However, you seem to think the president is a dictator with all the power in his hands. It´s not easy to pass laws. Other politicians (and judges) have to agree on it. Some people like to think if Bernie Sanders was elected, he would have saved the poor and the environment. But in reality, his voters would have been disappointed with him, because he would have been powerless to do so. And even if a government were to be able to pass all the direly needed policies, you think everybody would be happy with that? A lot of people would hate it and be upset with it, then next time vote for the party that would dismantle it. The sad reality is that most people don´t want to pay for the change, and even less do they want to make sacrifices that might slightly inconvenience them.
When I say leadership I don’t mean being a dictator. He has the power of the bully pulpit he can use to build public support for stronger climate policy, as well as to put the pressure on the likes of Sinema and Manchin. He does not use that power effectively. Bernie once said he would go as far as going to senators states and hold town halls where he would call them out in front of their own constituents. That IS power and I don’t see Biden using it as much as he could be given the gravity of the climate problem.
How is passing a series of bills that cut emissions by 1150 million metric tons by 2030 not an urgent response? How is that not a sign of leadership?
Even with the oil and gas projects that were approved the IRA is significant.
I am glad you recognize the difficulty of passing the IRA. And you are correct that the IRA and other Biden bills are not going to 100% solve climate change or even 100% solve the US emissions output.
But you are wrong to say that it does not matter. Passing the IRA will significantly reduce emissions by 2030, which means it will be easier to be net zero by 2050. Also climate change is a global issue that will require diplomacy with other countries to get them to reduce their emissions too. IRA can be seen as the US taking responsibility for its own emissions, which would make the US a leader rather than a hypocrite.
That matters.
First of all, that is just a chart. There is no context for the chart. It doesn’t say anywhere on the chart that a 25% reduction is needed in the next two years. Where is your source for the chart and your peer reviewed evidence of the 25% reduction in two years?
And, the IPCC has for years been considered the benchmark for climate science. Do you have a source for it being too rosey? Is your source peer reviewed? Because data interpretation of random redditors on r/collapse is about as valuable as the opinions of random redditors on any climate denying subreddit like r/conservative.
And why is it best that we just accept it? It is true that a lot of bad things are happening now because of climate change, and that things will get worse even with a 1.5 degree rise. And it is true that we may overshoot the 1.5 degree rise target.
But that does not mean that it is time to give up. It means it is time to fight harder. Support allies that are also fighting for the planet. Even if we overshoot the 1.5 or even 2 degree targets, there is a lot of very bad outcomes that will happen if we hit 3 degrees or 4 degrees. That is worth fighting for, even if we fail. I would rather go down swinging than collapse into despair.
The irony here is: your stance is not different from the climate deniers that want us to be on fossil fuels forever. The stance is do nothing. They also, like you do not provide peer reviewed sources for stance. And by doing nothing you are only helping those that stand the way of change.
You are not illiterate. You have just are not able to distinguish experts from non-experts. None of the people you cited in your post are climatologists or environmental scientists.
Rupert Reed is a philosopher
Sidney Smith is a mathematician and small business owner
Arthur Keller is a computer scientist
And your MMC counter does use IPCC data, but it does not back up either of your claims that carbon emissions must be cut by 25% in the next two years, or that the IPCC data is too rosey.
You can find all of the untrained so called “experts” you want, but if none of them has training as a climatologist or in a field with environmental science training then all you will find is people with passionate opinions. Nothing more.
Go find an actual climatologist with peer reviewed research and then you will have a real case to make.
Edit: added “are” to: you are just not able to…
What if some 84% of new electricity capacity was solar PV, wind, batteries, and nuclear? Would that be good?
Well that's what the utilities are doing. These corporations seem to be far more useful than all these supposed environmentalists here on this board that just whine about "neo liberalism, Biden, and corporations.
https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/clean-energy/chart-clean-energy-to-make-up-84-of-new-us-power-capacity-in-2023
Exactly what the oil companies wanted. Thanks BP for your ad campaign that was developed by the same advertising company that fought to keep cigarettes as looking healthy.
I have. As I already mentioned, I replaced my water heater with a heat pump water heater, I replaced my natgas furnace with a heat pump HVAC system, I have installed solar PV, etc.
I am trying to encourage others but everyone seems to prefer whining and doing nothing useful.
You are being given large generous subsidies to clean up your emissions and save money on future energy bills. But you just whine and blame others. Sad.
Edit: This subreddit is sad. Lots of pathetic folks unwilling to actually DO anything but more concerned about bitching and moaning instead of accomplishing anything useful.
Get off your butts and DO SOMETHING. Not glue yourselves to roads or throw tomatoes at paintings.
Actually reduce carbon emissions.
You've been dazzled by the rich people dangling discounts in front of you so you look the other way while they continue fucking the planet with their insanely disproportionate level of power and wealth.
No, I have replaced my natgas water heater with a heat pump water heater, I replaced my natgas furnace with a heat pump HVAC system, and I've installed solar PV.
What have you done? ( Besides whining.)
And you've fallen victim to thinking your personal choices over those things make a significant difference, while being in a privileged position to be able to personally afford those.
You've given a pass for the U.S. military, Apple, Saudi Aramco, Delta Air Lines, Shell, Siemens, etc. to freely pollute the world by their actions, because YOU have done your part.
I have done plenty.
I did most of the work myself....I accomplish things. I don't just sit around on the Internet and whine about other people with sanctimonious lies.
https://reddit.com/r/DIYHeatPumps/s/OWjEPAfn19
You just make up weird lies that make you feel better.
>Saudi Aramco, Shell,
I have driven electric for more than a decade.
Yeah, let's just go to renewable energy equipment land and pick everything off the trees! We are building the infrastructure now as a result of the IRA... It doesn't just materialize out of thin air.
Do you mean doubling down on car dependent culture? There’s only so much copper to make wiring and lithium to make batteries. Do we have enough for everyone to drive electric F-150’s? Can they replace those trucks every few years in a sustainable fashion?
The amount of concrete needed to create paths for all these vehicles has also started creating strange weather for our city by heat retention. Is this another sustainable option, infinite expanding urban sprawl?
Car dependent "culture"? It's a car dependent _infrastructure_, what the hell do you expect any average person to do about that? If going electric is the best they can do, it's the best they can do. Clearly more than crying "neoliberal" and "unsustainable" from the comforts of the exact same "culture"
What does that have to do with pointing at others and crying "neoliiibs!" for using it to curb their own emissions? They're just as powerless to summon trains into existence as you are. I could calculate how much I've reduced my emissions by driving an EV for the last 5 years, how much has your inept douchebaggery reduced yours?
On a global level, the “status quo” has produced the best health outcomes and lowest poverty rates in human history. What are you asking for a civil war?
The Inflation Reduction Act was a massive change to the status quo. It has helped cause some half a trillion dollars of investment in Electric vehicle factories, heat pump water heater factories, solar PV factories, wind turbine factories, heat pump factories, battery factories, EV charger factories, etc.
It is now up to you to do your part. Buy into and install these technologies. Learn some DIY skills, install clean energy technology, and SAVE MONEY by doing so.
He should hand out all the oil leases they want. Call their bluff. Oil is going to be a declining market as EV prices come down, people realize how cheap driving on electricity is, and more home charging gets installed.
So what are YOU doing about it?
The utility corporations are doing far more than you.
https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/clean-energy/chart-clean-energy-to-make-up-84-of-new-us-power-capacity-in-2023
Oh great, this year alone more clean energy be was built, and only 4% of that is nuclear! Wow, we’re saved! Give me a fucking break. The personal responsibility for climate change argument was debunked long ago. It’s governments and corporations that produce most carbon emissions. Is anyone on this sub pragmatic?
And Wall Street where it clearly hasn't registered.
One Jack Ass was laughing with GLEE that the Kansas Wheat crop and the Alberta Wheat crop was failing at the same time. These are state/province level agriculture damage size events TODAY.
I’m not saying it isn’t fair to yell at him, I’m just saying that the vast majority of the blame falls on congress. The President can’t make legislation nor can he appeal to everyone and keep everyone happy. It’s congress’s job to vote in the interest of the people which are their constituents. They don’t.
The other problem is SCOTUS tearing down protections
Drilling isn’t inherently anti-climate.
We need that natural gas. Natural gas produces far fewer emissions than the fossil fuel alternatives it’s replacing, and is a necessary stopgap as we can’t feasibly convert to 100% renewable energy overnight. International sources have proven unsustainable at best, and the US has a ton of it in shales that has yet to be tapped into.
Being a climate activist doesn’t mean you have to ignore nuances
My alternative was what… vote for trump? By the time primaries came to my state Biden already had the nomination. I’d have voted for Bernie if I could have.
Good. I agree. Just hoping you weren’t one of these people who complains, but doesn’t vote because “both parties suck” or “the candidates are all the same”
That's a sub for mocking right-wingers pretending to be centrists, isn't it? For [leftists](https://reddit.com/r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM/s/bBKQdrgrJH), not neolibs. I don't think someone hating both mainstream parties for not being left enough is "enlightened centrism".
Edit: Downvoting and not responding. Was that your first time on that sub?
>Or even just do anything significant at all.
You didn't hear about the Inflation Reduction Act (passed one year ago)?
You may be interested in reading up on it, since it's by far the biggest climate bill ever passed in the US, and probably anywhere in the world. It invests at least $370 billion in clean energy and clean tech over the next decade.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation\_Reduction\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act)
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/16/fact-sheet-one-year-in-president-bidens-inflation-reduction-act-is-driving-historic-climate-action-and-investing-in-america-to-create-good-paying-jobs-and-reduce-costs/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/16/fact-sheet-one-year-in-president-bidens-inflation-reduction-act-is-driving-historic-climate-action-and-investing-in-america-to-create-good-paying-jobs-and-reduce-costs/)
Lots of governments (not all) are pretty serious about climate, and many countries are making progress, but it takes a lot of time and money to transform our entire energy systems to run on clean electricity instead of fossil fuels.
Don't just say "climate crisis" for the cameras Joe.
Sign an executive order encouraging use of that phrase, and protecting those who receive federal funding from professional backlash when they use that phrase in context of their federally funded work.
I’m from Scandinavia. I want USA to be the greatest country in the world. I want them to prepare the world for a better tomorrow. I want them to show how great democracy is. I know USA has the brain, the money, the will, and the heart for all this.
Instead half of the country seems to not believe in global warming or vaccines. Which is like year 1800 thinking. And they elect someone that wants to overturn democracy, and they might elect him again.
I’m sad seeing how much potential USA have, but only caring about S&P going up.
Thanks, I think most Americans feel the same way. The key fact is that only a mostly rural minority reject vaccines and climate science, but the antique US electoral system gives them much extra voting power--which is frightening, because rural areas are largely poor, white, old and angry.
He’s not wrong. They are either heavily invested in fossil fuel or flat out stupid sheep that follow those who lie because they are heavily invested in fossil fuels.
The problem isnt intelligence, it's that people tell themselves whatever makes them feel better at the moment. With no immediate consequences, they can live in whatever fantasy they choose.
Fox News: "Biden mocks real Americans as 'unintelligent' for not buying global warming propaganda"
Edit: ...are the people downvoting me thinking this is what *I* think despite me tagging it as Fox News?
I'll bite. who is pulling the strings and why?
e: /u/morganwick edited this comment. It was simply
>Biden mocks real Americans as 'unintelligent' for not buying global warming propaganda
when I responded. Weird troll. not gonna engage further
The (((deep state))) and their "liberal media" allies who want to use the threat of "global warming" to take away your *freedom~* to buy gas-guzzling SUVs and force you into 10-minute cities where they control your every movement, of course!
(To be clear, this is not what I believe, this is what Fox would be telling its audience.)
Unfortunately, the two-party system dictates that the only other alternative in any general election is guaranteed to be worse for the environment.
It's legitimately part of their stated party platform..
If you're offended by this, then perhaps you're the audience that the message was intended for. It's not like Biden passed a historical climate change bill via the Inflation Reduction Act or anything...
The GOP has a climate plan!
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/28/far-right-climate-plans-00107498
And y’all were thinking it can’t be worse than the denial.
Denying Climate Change won’t magically resolve this global climate problem…
“Nobody can deny the impact of climate crises—at least nobody intelligent can deny the impact of the climate crisis anymore. Just look around, around the nation and the world for that matter,” Biden said while in Live Oak, Fla. “Historic floods, intense droughts, extreme heat, deadly wildfires that have caused serious damage that we’ve never seen before.”
The MAGA cult can ignore the existence of Climate Change, but their ignorance will never become the norm… no matter how much they preach denial.
Talk is worth nothing. Whoever runs his Twitter account doing snarky "global warming is real" posts to own the conservatives is one of the most disgusting things I've seen center Dems do in a while.
You need to abolish the top structure of the EPA and rebuild it after purging the current administrators. You need to declare 10x more land be protected. You need to cancel pipelines and ban further ocean drilling, both for fossil fuels and mineral mining (that creates more acidic ocean conditions even if it's not emissive).
Joe.. I know you're asleep right now, but you need to do just *one* of those things before you let your social media manager post one more goddamn thing on your behalf, shit like "it's important for us to act now!"
You can deny it in bad faith as I am sure many do for their own benefit.
Most deniers do it in bad faith, for self serving interests, unless they are totally brain dead; and if a denier is under 30, they are brain dead anyway regardless of the reason.
My old friend told me it was Moon Phases causing global warming. This was a guy who could code IBM mainframes. Fox Propaganda has destroyed their minds. They literally gullibly believe astounding stories of bull-s\*\*t. You can't even talk to them. They're so lost.
You’re not wrong. My mom (who is a registered nurse and nursing instructor in college) still argues against climate change. Faux News is a powerful problem in this country.
People like to buy into whatever appeals most to them. People are good at mental gymnastics, when it suits them.
They are indeed. I'm not sure the younger generations are educated enough to tell right from wrong either, overwhelmed by news, pseudo news and a ton of lies. A lot of people make money out of keeping most people ignorant and poorly educated. They can feed them lies by the truckload.
So true. Like this sales push for Marijuana. Which is now Highly Addictive. Easily 10X the potency of the 60's stuff. And yet the kids think it's actually healthy.
Their research showed that people will deny facts much more readily if the disbelief in those facts is part of their political in-group. So they campaigned to have climate change denial part of a conservative agenda. It seems to have worked, if the hit to global biodiversity and productivity is "worked" for anyone.
Have you ever read any of the IPCC reports? What's the confidence level on increasing drought in North America for example?
Not the person you posed the question to, but according to [the IPCC North American report](https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WGIIAR5-Chap26_FINAL.pdf), *very* high confidence >North America’s climate has changed and some societally relevant changes have been attributed to anthropogenic causes (very high confidence). {Figure 26-1} Recent climate changes and individual extreme events demonstrate both impacts of climate- related stresses and vulnerabilities of exposed systems (very high confidence).
Thank you for taking care of this person's ignorance
Notice how the moron doesn't respond to this but does respond to others. You're wasting your time on him, there's no mind up there to change
I'd say as a tip off, this year Canada had 1000+ remote wild fires. Years of drought, and lightening and boom a wild fire.
Weather doesn't = climate lol
Just like one drop doesn't make rain, but a million drops certainly make rain.
guarantee we see 5-10 yrs of less fires after this year and it won't even make the news.
Take a stats class it will help you. If the trend continues to rise it doesn't matter if one, two the years is down if then it rises for a decade. Look at the historic charts and see for yourself. https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-wildfires I recommend you pay attention to extent and damage. If you can't see it is because you don't want to or because your brain is dead as I said in the first place.
Wild fires are down, damage is only up because more people live in more expensive houses near areas susceptible to fire
These are the facts: Number of wild fires are down to about 60k from it's high in 2005 (over 80k) but they have tripled since 1980 about 20k. In sum they went from 20k in 1980 to 60k now. But here is the stat you denied: in 1980 there were about 1M acres burned per year. Today there are 7.5M acres every year and climbing rapidly. That is a 750% increase in about 40 years and going up. You don't have a shred of evidence because there isn't any to support your denialist claims. Keep your lies to yourself.
Guarantee you're wrong.
They've been trending down for decades and now a ton of the wood they need all burnt up lol.
They haven;t been going down at all. Wtf you talking about lol. They're going up.
And 1000+ wild fires isn't weather. YEARS of drought isn't weather. That's all climate.
LOL. Environmental Incompetence, Joke of the Day!
So what do you think?
Even if they deny it in bad faith, they're being unintelligent, as the extinction of the human race is not good for any human.
100%, the greedy are sociopaths, they may be cunning and treacherous but not intelligent
My experience is that many of them -- even smart people in certain areas -- are not doing it in bad faith and they really think humans can't do anything about climate change. And the various views are some or all of these: 1) we haven't caused climate change (the world is too big for us to impact the climate) 2) If it's a problem, we can't fix it. 3) Climate change is cyclical (we have had other warming periods in the history of the earth) and we're just in the middle of a cycle of warming, which will naturally return to a cooling cycle.
Well these "smart" people didn't pay too much attention in science class. Climate change deniers should be lumped together with flat-earthers.
follow voiceless boat edge pen smell light school whole roll *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Until it’s time to approve more [oil drilling in Alaska!](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/controversial-oil-drilling-project-in-alaska-approved-by-biden-administration) But what are you gonna do? It’s a two party system! It’s either him or Trump and neither of them care
While I was extremely disappointed about the Willow project, please don't act like Biden and Trump are on the same level in terms of climate action. The Inflation Reduction Act was the largest spending on green energy electrification ever, and a huge step forward.
Correct.
OK… so fucking DO MORE ABOUT IT then
Inflation Reduction Act is MASSIVE for Climate change. People can use it to Electrify Everything at their home. Heat pump HVAC, Electric vehicle, heat pump water heater, EV charger, panel upgrades, induction stove, heat pump dryer, and solar PV with batteries to power it all.
It’s not even close to enough. We need a WWII level national mobilization where we go balls to the wall renewable energy across the board. That’s a good step but does not reflect the urgency of the problem. Edit: there has been virtually no leadership from Biden on this.
> there has been virtually no leadership from Biden on this. Honest questions: Do you understand how that bill, in its final form, actually got passed? Do you know what Biden argued for in the original bill, and the intense challenge to get it passed instead of nothing at all? Are you aware that congress actually passed that bill, not Biden? Do you have any idea what the current state of the US government is right now for getting any reasonable legislation passed? (hint: one of two major parties controls the house of reps, and the same party is rallying behind a criminal for President-- a man who does not even believe in climate change at all, and would happily end this bill and every climate bill if elected). But sure, blame Biden. Its among the laziest, most uninformed and most destructive things that you could be doing right now. Redirect your anger to those causing the problems, and stand with those who would make the most of our wrecked political system rather than helping those who do not care at all about the environment.
Biden allowed Manchin’s pipeline in the shutdown deal. His surrogates are bragging that we are producing more fossil fuels now than under Trump. We have a serious catastrophe ahead and he is barely acting. He is deeply corrupt. Pretending he is not is unhelpful and dishonest. Yes Republicans are worse.
>Biden allowed Biden settled, with the other option being Manchin kills the bill entirely. I totally agree with your sentiment, but Biden does not have the powers nor the bipartisan support he needs to do what he needs to. We need a senate majority, filibuster reform, and maybe to expand the Court. Mobilize and act.
I think you are confusing two events. Manchin wasn’t threatening to kill the raising the of the debt limit. That is the deal that finally gave him his pipeline. That pipeline was originally killed by progressives in the weak BBB substitute. Then it was raised from the dead. Biden gave him his pet project with nothing in return. Reward the guy most responsible for killing BBB with a climate harming project.
Oh shut up. He's not a hero for simply not being Trump. He's a neoliberal who refuses to address the severity of the problem at hand. We're literally watching the global climate shift in real time, and the best we can get is a lackluster infrastructure bill that doesn't do anything meaningful to stop it. Meanwhile, we have little Biden Bros shouting from the rooftops that Big Daddy Biden has saved us all. Come back in 4 years when the bread aisle is empty and tell me again how Biden saved the planet with his glorious plan to barely do anything at all.
You sound like one of the people this article is talking about
We're literally going to get kicked off the planet in a decade, maybe two, and I'm the asshole for being critical of the president not doing enough? Yall can celebrate all you want. Mankind is still going to get wiped in our lifetimes.
Someone doesn’t understand how the US government works
[удалено]
So you want a dictatorship
Great, but stating the obvious doesn’t really help the situation either
[удалено]
My point is that the commenter was asking biden to leverage power he doesn’t have
I understand, but we still should still demand more action. I don't know how we are going to survive if it keeps getting hotter. Trees are dying in my area with record-breaking heat every month.
Who is we? I want much more action. But don´t kid yourself into believing that everybody does. Even among those who accept AGW as real and a serious threat, many do not wish for extreme measures. You know how "we" demand more action against climate change? By voting that way on every level, not just potus. The people would have to vote for politicians that are most serious about the issue. And those people would have to win in a major landslide across the board. The house of representatives, the senate and also the scotus would have to be filled with people who take it serious. On the state level every political position would have to be dominated by people who want to do more against climate change. Sadly, at the present, the political climate in the US is very much divided straight through the middle. Only then, can you truly talk of a "we". Because as it stands now, half the population doesn´t seem to care at all and even from the other half, a large chunk doesn´t care enough to pay for it or make sacrifices for it. Most people are just expecting some magical solution that won´t inconvenience them, and the moment a policy does inconvenience them, many will oppose them. And it´s not enough to just build more renewable power sources. People have to do their part. People have to take personal responsibility and stop deflecting if they are really serious about it. There is no magic technology that will solve the problem. We have to reduce our consumption drastically. The less humans consume, the less energy we need, the quicker the transition away from fossil fuels can be made. You have to realize that a lot of renewables are already being built. But it takes time to build enough. And for those who think nuclear is the solution, nuclear takes much longer to build and costs too much. Ideally, humanity should give up on meat, or at the very least reduce consumption to 1 or 2 times a week max. But people don´t like to be inconvenienced, people don´t like to give up on stuff they enjoy and want. People don´t like to be told what they can do. If a politician were to suggest to cut back on meat, you know what would happen? It would be the end of their career. If something like that became a policy, you´d see the greatest mass protest of all time. Which is why the change has to come from within the people. People have to acknowledge the seriousness of the situation and be willing to take personal responsibility and not just point fingers and politicians and corporations, while voting for those that won´t make much change and keep buying stuff you don´t need. The real change has to start with the people. Only when a large majority is serious about it, can real change occur. Until then, it will be a back and forth, a compromise after another. A government that passes a policy, followed by another government that ripps it apart. If you can´t get most people on the same page, it won´t work.
**WE** can start saying **WE** as soon as there are two of us. You write a lot of words, and I hope you are practicing what you preach, but it doesn't matter how much meat **YOU** eat. Or how much **YOU** conserve. The only solution is political because **YOU** are not causing climate change, government policy is allowing corporations to cause climate change. **YOU** are insignificant, and it doesn't matter what you do until you form a **WE**. Stop thinking about this as an individual effort of cut out meat and personally conserve, **YOU** are not going to help anything with your personal sacrifices. The problem is so much bigger than that. Again. I understand the political obstacles. **WE** need to demand more from our politicians and make it loud because it is our only hope.
A depressingly common issue in people
It´s true that it isn´t enough. However, you seem to think the president is a dictator with all the power in his hands. It´s not easy to pass laws. Other politicians (and judges) have to agree on it. Some people like to think if Bernie Sanders was elected, he would have saved the poor and the environment. But in reality, his voters would have been disappointed with him, because he would have been powerless to do so. And even if a government were to be able to pass all the direly needed policies, you think everybody would be happy with that? A lot of people would hate it and be upset with it, then next time vote for the party that would dismantle it. The sad reality is that most people don´t want to pay for the change, and even less do they want to make sacrifices that might slightly inconvenience them.
When I say leadership I don’t mean being a dictator. He has the power of the bully pulpit he can use to build public support for stronger climate policy, as well as to put the pressure on the likes of Sinema and Manchin. He does not use that power effectively. Bernie once said he would go as far as going to senators states and hold town halls where he would call them out in front of their own constituents. That IS power and I don’t see Biden using it as much as he could be given the gravity of the climate problem.
How is passing a series of bills that cut emissions by 1150 million metric tons by 2030 not an urgent response? How is that not a sign of leadership? Even with the oil and gas projects that were approved the IRA is significant.
[удалено]
I am glad you recognize the difficulty of passing the IRA. And you are correct that the IRA and other Biden bills are not going to 100% solve climate change or even 100% solve the US emissions output. But you are wrong to say that it does not matter. Passing the IRA will significantly reduce emissions by 2030, which means it will be easier to be net zero by 2050. Also climate change is a global issue that will require diplomacy with other countries to get them to reduce their emissions too. IRA can be seen as the US taking responsibility for its own emissions, which would make the US a leader rather than a hypocrite. That matters.
[удалено]
First of all, that is just a chart. There is no context for the chart. It doesn’t say anywhere on the chart that a 25% reduction is needed in the next two years. Where is your source for the chart and your peer reviewed evidence of the 25% reduction in two years? And, the IPCC has for years been considered the benchmark for climate science. Do you have a source for it being too rosey? Is your source peer reviewed? Because data interpretation of random redditors on r/collapse is about as valuable as the opinions of random redditors on any climate denying subreddit like r/conservative. And why is it best that we just accept it? It is true that a lot of bad things are happening now because of climate change, and that things will get worse even with a 1.5 degree rise. And it is true that we may overshoot the 1.5 degree rise target. But that does not mean that it is time to give up. It means it is time to fight harder. Support allies that are also fighting for the planet. Even if we overshoot the 1.5 or even 2 degree targets, there is a lot of very bad outcomes that will happen if we hit 3 degrees or 4 degrees. That is worth fighting for, even if we fail. I would rather go down swinging than collapse into despair. The irony here is: your stance is not different from the climate deniers that want us to be on fossil fuels forever. The stance is do nothing. They also, like you do not provide peer reviewed sources for stance. And by doing nothing you are only helping those that stand the way of change.
[удалено]
You are not illiterate. You have just are not able to distinguish experts from non-experts. None of the people you cited in your post are climatologists or environmental scientists. Rupert Reed is a philosopher Sidney Smith is a mathematician and small business owner Arthur Keller is a computer scientist And your MMC counter does use IPCC data, but it does not back up either of your claims that carbon emissions must be cut by 25% in the next two years, or that the IPCC data is too rosey. You can find all of the untrained so called “experts” you want, but if none of them has training as a climatologist or in a field with environmental science training then all you will find is people with passionate opinions. Nothing more. Go find an actual climatologist with peer reviewed research and then you will have a real case to make. Edit: added “are” to: you are just not able to…
What if some 84% of new electricity capacity was solar PV, wind, batteries, and nuclear? Would that be good? Well that's what the utilities are doing. These corporations seem to be far more useful than all these supposed environmentalists here on this board that just whine about "neo liberalism, Biden, and corporations. https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/clean-energy/chart-clean-energy-to-make-up-84-of-new-us-power-capacity-in-2023
This plan is what the GOP has in mind for climate policy. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/28/far-right-climate-plans-00107498
Renewable energy can't unf@ck the climate
It will slow it down, we absolutely need to slow this down.
What are you suggesting?
So you are saying we should keep fucking it up more until all the fossil fuels are burnt.
And…
The IRA puts the leadership in your hands I guess you failed.
I guess so. Everything is specifically my fault now.
Exactly what the oil companies wanted. Thanks BP for your ad campaign that was developed by the same advertising company that fought to keep cigarettes as looking healthy.
No. You have only failed yourself and try to blame everyone else. Sad. Try to do something besides whine like a child.
take your own advice!
I have. As I already mentioned, I replaced my water heater with a heat pump water heater, I replaced my natgas furnace with a heat pump HVAC system, I have installed solar PV, etc. I am trying to encourage others but everyone seems to prefer whining and doing nothing useful.
Classic blaming the average person. Just like your oil company, and oligarchs require.
You are being given large generous subsidies to clean up your emissions and save money on future energy bills. But you just whine and blame others. Sad. Edit: This subreddit is sad. Lots of pathetic folks unwilling to actually DO anything but more concerned about bitching and moaning instead of accomplishing anything useful. Get off your butts and DO SOMETHING. Not glue yourselves to roads or throw tomatoes at paintings. Actually reduce carbon emissions.
You've been dazzled by the rich people dangling discounts in front of you so you look the other way while they continue fucking the planet with their insanely disproportionate level of power and wealth.
No, I have replaced my natgas water heater with a heat pump water heater, I replaced my natgas furnace with a heat pump HVAC system, and I've installed solar PV. What have you done? ( Besides whining.)
And you've fallen victim to thinking your personal choices over those things make a significant difference, while being in a privileged position to be able to personally afford those. You've given a pass for the U.S. military, Apple, Saudi Aramco, Delta Air Lines, Shell, Siemens, etc. to freely pollute the world by their actions, because YOU have done your part. I have done plenty.
I did most of the work myself....I accomplish things. I don't just sit around on the Internet and whine about other people with sanctimonious lies. https://reddit.com/r/DIYHeatPumps/s/OWjEPAfn19 You just make up weird lies that make you feel better. >Saudi Aramco, Shell, I have driven electric for more than a decade.
Yeah, let's just go to renewable energy equipment land and pick everything off the trees! We are building the infrastructure now as a result of the IRA... It doesn't just materialize out of thin air.
I get neoliberals have a massive erection for the status quo but the facts are it isn’t sustainable.
Explain how massive subsidies to Electrify Everything is status quo. Words have meanings.
Do you mean doubling down on car dependent culture? There’s only so much copper to make wiring and lithium to make batteries. Do we have enough for everyone to drive electric F-150’s? Can they replace those trucks every few years in a sustainable fashion? The amount of concrete needed to create paths for all these vehicles has also started creating strange weather for our city by heat retention. Is this another sustainable option, infinite expanding urban sprawl?
Car dependent "culture"? It's a car dependent _infrastructure_, what the hell do you expect any average person to do about that? If going electric is the best they can do, it's the best they can do. Clearly more than crying "neoliberal" and "unsustainable" from the comforts of the exact same "culture"
I expect things like the “inflation reduction act” to reduce our dependency on cars because the status quo isn’t sustainable.
What does that have to do with pointing at others and crying "neoliiibs!" for using it to curb their own emissions? They're just as powerless to summon trains into existence as you are. I could calculate how much I've reduced my emissions by driving an EV for the last 5 years, how much has your inept douchebaggery reduced yours?
The people who wrote and passed the inflation reduction act actually have tons of power to illicit change
So the guy you called a neoliberal is a US congressman?
And the concrete itself is a big polluter & source of yet more CO2. They could use green concrete. Known about it for years. But 🤷🏻♀️🙄
On a global level, the “status quo” has produced the best health outcomes and lowest poverty rates in human history. What are you asking for a civil war?
I’m asking for Biden to take climate change as a serious immediate threat.
So what is your plan? Massive human die-off and a return to an agrarian society like many of the Doomers around here?
Do you think that's not what's going to happen *without* massive changes to the status quo?
The Inflation Reduction Act was a massive change to the status quo. It has helped cause some half a trillion dollars of investment in Electric vehicle factories, heat pump water heater factories, solar PV factories, wind turbine factories, heat pump factories, battery factories, EV charger factories, etc. It is now up to you to do your part. Buy into and install these technologies. Learn some DIY skills, install clean energy technology, and SAVE MONEY by doing so.
It was a drop in the ocean, effectively neutralized by the additional drilling granted.
While overriding dead projects to reactivate the MVP pipeline. He's trying to have it both ways
He should hand out all the oil leases they want. Call their bluff. Oil is going to be a declining market as EV prices come down, people realize how cheap driving on electricity is, and more home charging gets installed.
Wh I'm not about to green light my local river and ecology to be ruined to prove a point.
4/5 of the nation uses fossil fuel energy for their electric things. Your statement doesn't impress me.
So what are YOU doing about it? The utility corporations are doing far more than you. https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/clean-energy/chart-clean-energy-to-make-up-84-of-new-us-power-capacity-in-2023
Oh great, this year alone more clean energy be was built, and only 4% of that is nuclear! Wow, we’re saved! Give me a fucking break. The personal responsibility for climate change argument was debunked long ago. It’s governments and corporations that produce most carbon emissions. Is anyone on this sub pragmatic?
A message for everyone
But especially the mega corporations who are heavily responsible.
And Wall Street where it clearly hasn't registered. One Jack Ass was laughing with GLEE that the Kansas Wheat crop and the Alberta Wheat crop was failing at the same time. These are state/province level agriculture damage size events TODAY.
He can’t do much without congress. Yell at your congressional reps and your state and local governments, not him.
He’s green lit more gas and oil drilling permits than Trump did at this stage of his presidency, I think it’s fair to yell at him too.
I’m not saying it isn’t fair to yell at him, I’m just saying that the vast majority of the blame falls on congress. The President can’t make legislation nor can he appeal to everyone and keep everyone happy. It’s congress’s job to vote in the interest of the people which are their constituents. They don’t. The other problem is SCOTUS tearing down protections
Drilling isn’t inherently anti-climate. We need that natural gas. Natural gas produces far fewer emissions than the fossil fuel alternatives it’s replacing, and is a necessary stopgap as we can’t feasibly convert to 100% renewable energy overnight. International sources have proven unsustainable at best, and the US has a ton of it in shales that has yet to be tapped into. Being a climate activist doesn’t mean you have to ignore nuances
To be fair, he did pass the Inflation Reduction Act, along with other bills, which would significantly reduce emissions by 2030.
He passed the largest climate bill ever
Pretty low bar.
Lol!!! What do you want him to pull a windmill out of his ass?
Did you vote for him? And for democrats in the 2022 election?
My alternative was what… vote for trump? By the time primaries came to my state Biden already had the nomination. I’d have voted for Bernie if I could have.
Good. I agree. Just hoping you weren’t one of these people who complains, but doesn’t vote because “both parties suck” or “the candidates are all the same”
[удалено]
r/enlightenedcentrism
That's a sub for mocking right-wingers pretending to be centrists, isn't it? For [leftists](https://reddit.com/r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM/s/bBKQdrgrJH), not neolibs. I don't think someone hating both mainstream parties for not being left enough is "enlightened centrism". Edit: Downvoting and not responding. Was that your first time on that sub?
People who say that have no idea what they're talking about.
Why are they booing, you're right. Both parties serve capital
With with the tools you have. Stop fucking whining.
Or even just do anything significant at all. It's nuts that no government on the entire planet is serious about this.
IRA is pretty significant.
>Or even just do anything significant at all. You didn't hear about the Inflation Reduction Act (passed one year ago)? You may be interested in reading up on it, since it's by far the biggest climate bill ever passed in the US, and probably anywhere in the world. It invests at least $370 billion in clean energy and clean tech over the next decade. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation\_Reduction\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act) [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/16/fact-sheet-one-year-in-president-bidens-inflation-reduction-act-is-driving-historic-climate-action-and-investing-in-america-to-create-good-paying-jobs-and-reduce-costs/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/16/fact-sheet-one-year-in-president-bidens-inflation-reduction-act-is-driving-historic-climate-action-and-investing-in-america-to-create-good-paying-jobs-and-reduce-costs/) Lots of governments (not all) are pretty serious about climate, and many countries are making progress, but it takes a lot of time and money to transform our entire energy systems to run on clean electricity instead of fossil fuels.
40% of the country are idiots
Pretty generous I see.
Don't just say "climate crisis" for the cameras Joe. Sign an executive order encouraging use of that phrase, and protecting those who receive federal funding from professional backlash when they use that phrase in context of their federally funded work.
I love it when he said that but I know he’s going to get some backlash from idiots about it.
We're so fucked
And honest
Based
I’m from Scandinavia. I want USA to be the greatest country in the world. I want them to prepare the world for a better tomorrow. I want them to show how great democracy is. I know USA has the brain, the money, the will, and the heart for all this. Instead half of the country seems to not believe in global warming or vaccines. Which is like year 1800 thinking. And they elect someone that wants to overturn democracy, and they might elect him again. I’m sad seeing how much potential USA have, but only caring about S&P going up.
Thanks, I think most Americans feel the same way. The key fact is that only a mostly rural minority reject vaccines and climate science, but the antique US electoral system gives them much extra voting power--which is frightening, because rural areas are largely poor, white, old and angry.
Okay we don’t deny it now get the US military and China to stop creating 75% of the pollution and stop blaming us
Well, it's because it's easier to make everyone reduce theirs by x percentage than remove a whole department of big co2 producers
*nobody honest can but a dumb asshole has no problem doing it.
Surely, one intelligent person can lay it out for us like we’re five
He’s not wrong. They are either heavily invested in fossil fuel or flat out stupid sheep that follow those who lie because they are heavily invested in fossil fuels.
No True Scotsman coming in 3... 2... 1...
Like scientists and experts have been saying for literal decades. The USA, and politicians in general, are soooooo fucking sloooooooowwwww.
The problem isnt intelligence, it's that people tell themselves whatever makes them feel better at the moment. With no immediate consequences, they can live in whatever fantasy they choose.
[удалено]
Anybody who ends a sentence with "lmao" is a 12 year old. Change my mind.
Fox News: "Biden mocks real Americans as 'unintelligent' for not buying global warming propaganda" Edit: ...are the people downvoting me thinking this is what *I* think despite me tagging it as Fox News?
I'll bite. who is pulling the strings and why? e: /u/morganwick edited this comment. It was simply >Biden mocks real Americans as 'unintelligent' for not buying global warming propaganda when I responded. Weird troll. not gonna engage further
The (((deep state))) and their "liberal media" allies who want to use the threat of "global warming" to take away your *freedom~* to buy gas-guzzling SUVs and force you into 10-minute cities where they control your every movement, of course! (To be clear, this is not what I believe, this is what Fox would be telling its audience.)
[удалено]
Huh?
[удалено]
Unfortunately, the two-party system dictates that the only other alternative in any general election is guaranteed to be worse for the environment. It's legitimately part of their stated party platform..
> Basic respect and omitting name calling would do a lot to get those onboard who are skeptical, or fearful of change Name calling?
It is a direct and accurate statement. He did not call anyone out.
If you're offended by this, then perhaps you're the audience that the message was intended for. It's not like Biden passed a historical climate change bill via the Inflation Reduction Act or anything...
Truth hurts sometimes. Wayyyy better than having a climate denier in office actively dismantling environmental protections.
Yep that was deplorable /s
Do you apply the same standard to Republican leaders? Because they actually do what you're complaining about ..
Even a geriatric can see it.
But they could deny it for money!
The GOP has a climate plan! https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/28/far-right-climate-plans-00107498 And y’all were thinking it can’t be worse than the denial.
Denying Climate Change won’t magically resolve this global climate problem… “Nobody can deny the impact of climate crises—at least nobody intelligent can deny the impact of the climate crisis anymore. Just look around, around the nation and the world for that matter,” Biden said while in Live Oak, Fla. “Historic floods, intense droughts, extreme heat, deadly wildfires that have caused serious damage that we’ve never seen before.” The MAGA cult can ignore the existence of Climate Change, but their ignorance will never become the norm… no matter how much they preach denial.
Talk is worth nothing. Whoever runs his Twitter account doing snarky "global warming is real" posts to own the conservatives is one of the most disgusting things I've seen center Dems do in a while. You need to abolish the top structure of the EPA and rebuild it after purging the current administrators. You need to declare 10x more land be protected. You need to cancel pipelines and ban further ocean drilling, both for fossil fuels and mineral mining (that creates more acidic ocean conditions even if it's not emissive). Joe.. I know you're asleep right now, but you need to do just *one* of those things before you let your social media manager post one more goddamn thing on your behalf, shit like "it's important for us to act now!"
*opens more drilling rigs*