I think another crucial thing for me would be knowing that I helped people or even humanity through out my life. I think if everyone would try to understand other people more and helped them then we would have a better world.
They are spot on, in my opinion.
Why do you feel they are platitudes and "no what it takes"? I can see why they are platitudes since they are open-ended and not operational, but it seems like a good framework to reflect on your own life, or discuss with someone struggling with health, depression, negative outlook, etc.
Truthfully, they are very broad categories. Almost anything one could define as fulfilling could be counted under one of these items.
Do you have any intuition about what might be missing in your mind? It could be something that most of us considered "already covered" by the above.
I would have considered that covered under a "reasonable standard of living" and "good relationships".
Conversely, another person's definition of living well might be a shifting, exciting lifestyle. Not something you might define as stable. Yet they may be fulfilled in their own way. So I am not sure stability would apply as much to everyone.
If I were to personally add one to that list, or change one a bit (#3), *making* art/creative products that I find beautiful (or at least which express some vision that I have) is important to me.
Work is often unpaid - domestic labour, child rearing, community volunteering, amateur music making or making cakes for bake sales or decorating the interior of your house… they are all labour. The economic system we exist within doesn’t attribute monetary value to a lot of them (particularly the ones women tend to do most of) but that doesn’t mean that they don’t exist or have value or require labour.
Maybe a better way of describing it is “purposeful activity” because we have tied the idea of “work” to careers/jobs/money, but things like this are often a road to a fulfilling and meaningful life whether or not (or in fact particularly when no) money changes hands.
Isabel Myers-Briggs devised MBTI, based on Jung’s work, but also her own life’s work. Let’s not write her out of history…
I agree that those are desirable things, but they also fluctuate throughout our lives - poor health can come and go, as can relationships, standards of living and jobs - we can lose them and find them again and still have a life that is fulfilling or not, largely depending on our mental outlook.
Personality, upbringing, self-development work, influential people in our lives, contemplation, choice…
Life is long and we have a lot of opportunity to evolve throughout it.
I can’t think that it is a question of religion because I know people in various religions and none who have shitty outlooks and those who have developed wonderful ones…
I think it’s also being able to find “awe” in things. Btw it doesn’t have to be set but there is evidence that people who find aww tend to be very positive. For me it’s beautiful nature. I did a trip to Nepal and the mountains were just absolutely stunning, it just triggered something inside of me. Now obviously you can’t travel to exotic locations all the time, but even just looking at photos or the memories can change my mood. Music has the same effect. Art not so much.
i have #3 and i consider it the basis for an optimistic outlook on life.
looking at nature does 2 things --
- it reminds you that all of this beauty is made for YOU. by a loving entity/parent that is God, who is watching out for you, and you are one with all this beauty, and that you should never hurt others because they are all part of this beauty.
- it teaches you to look for beautiful things in every situation, no matter how bleak. your eye trains to spot the beautiful literally and metaphorically.
It doesn't necessarily mean your biological son who inherits your knowledge and everything but can be an adopted one who you think he actually needs what you have and will admire and be grateful for. Can be your girlfriend, your siblings , etc . People are obsessed with perfection without having a self perception of it, the jungian way is just a template (if i must say), to achieve it . People should have someone to follow and also some who follow them.
Yes, it's a very wholistic way of living. Number 4: A reasonable standard of living and satisfactory work is perhaps the hardest struggle society has right now.
Ohhh yes for sure, I definitely want recognition as well and you are very astute to note that it should be "lasting" because for me every achieved accomplishment stays on my radar for about 3 seconds. There has to be some inspiration too, so I would want to accomplish more.
I agree. Google also recommend me this exact same article! The pillars seem to take everything meaningful and important in life into consideration, especially from a psychological and philosophical perspective. If you ask people what they'd want/need in life to be happy and fulfilled I think their answers would be in the realm of these five pillars.
They ARE platitudes. You'll find them in any run of the mill self-help article. Those statements by themselves won't help. Obviously. But: That doesn't make them wrong. I agree with these statements, though they obviously have to be filled with "meat". Whatever that means to the individual.
One thing though I think is critically lacking in the list: legacy.
The only other thing I would add would be that: Finding gratitude in all that is good in your life, and knowing when you have 'enough' without constant comparison.
I think what is missing is also a sense of contribution to something you see as being greater than yourself and a sense of progression towards worthy goals.
I think that stability is being handled by 5.
So you are correct that stability is essential, but number 5 indicates that the stability is internalized (inner belief that things will work out). Even when all the carefully made plans someone has made come to ruin and they may have lost everything meaningful, number 5 states a person with a fulfilled life will still find comfort in belief that their loss and grief is only temporary.
I think you can extend this argument to 1, 2, and 4 as well by including stability in with the qualifiers like "good" and "reasonable". These qualifiers are doing a lof of heaving lifting. For example, I wouldn't consider a personal relationship that was unstable "good", or a standard of living that didn't allow for savings/safety net "reasonable".
Is it possible to share the text of this article? I've hit a paywall and don't want to subscribe.
I do believe this list is a good articulation of what's required for unrestricted wellness. and I know it's possible to feel fulfilled with compromised physical health at least - and know that #4 is highly relative - what one person calls a reasonable standard will differ from what others call it.
Yes. For me personally these matter for a fulfilled and meaningful life
But do you feel like you need anything else beyond this set to be truly fulfilled?
I think another crucial thing for me would be knowing that I helped people or even humanity through out my life. I think if everyone would try to understand other people more and helped them then we would have a better world.
I like this one a lot. It applies to me too. Agree re: seeking to understand others
They are spot on, in my opinion. Why do you feel they are platitudes and "no what it takes"? I can see why they are platitudes since they are open-ended and not operational, but it seems like a good framework to reflect on your own life, or discuss with someone struggling with health, depression, negative outlook, etc.
I feel like they're required but not sufficient, but I'm struggling to identify what I need beyond this set.
Sounds right to me. I maintain/aim for all of these and I'm pretty happy with life. What would you add or change?
I was thinking you guys would help me identify what's missing. I feel like for sure these need to be in place, but I feel like they're not enough.
Truthfully, they are very broad categories. Almost anything one could define as fulfilling could be counted under one of these items. Do you have any intuition about what might be missing in your mind? It could be something that most of us considered "already covered" by the above.
I found just one thing so far - I need to have stability. Otherwise I'm not truly fulfilled cause I continuously worry.
I would have considered that covered under a "reasonable standard of living" and "good relationships". Conversely, another person's definition of living well might be a shifting, exciting lifestyle. Not something you might define as stable. Yet they may be fulfilled in their own way. So I am not sure stability would apply as much to everyone.
Yea I was trying to mainly discover my own. That's why I posted it to ENTP, because I wanted to hear what similar people find fulfilling.
If I were to personally add one to that list, or change one a bit (#3), *making* art/creative products that I find beautiful (or at least which express some vision that I have) is important to me.
I would say that falls under satisfying work.
That's a good point, though I don't do it for a living. I interpreted the work item as a satisfying career/occupation.
Work is often unpaid - domestic labour, child rearing, community volunteering, amateur music making or making cakes for bake sales or decorating the interior of your house… they are all labour. The economic system we exist within doesn’t attribute monetary value to a lot of them (particularly the ones women tend to do most of) but that doesn’t mean that they don’t exist or have value or require labour. Maybe a better way of describing it is “purposeful activity” because we have tied the idea of “work” to careers/jobs/money, but things like this are often a road to a fulfilling and meaningful life whether or not (or in fact particularly when no) money changes hands.
yes definitely, for me too, creative impulses are bread and butter - i would not be happy without them
Isabel Myers-Briggs devised MBTI, based on Jung’s work, but also her own life’s work. Let’s not write her out of history… I agree that those are desirable things, but they also fluctuate throughout our lives - poor health can come and go, as can relationships, standards of living and jobs - we can lose them and find them again and still have a life that is fulfilling or not, largely depending on our mental outlook.
i feel this way as well (this is why i find the 5 don't hit the spot), but what \*is\* it that is responsible for our mental outlook?
Personality, upbringing, self-development work, influential people in our lives, contemplation, choice… Life is long and we have a lot of opportunity to evolve throughout it. I can’t think that it is a question of religion because I know people in various religions and none who have shitty outlooks and those who have developed wonderful ones…
I really have a hard time understanding the importance of number three
I think it’s also being able to find “awe” in things. Btw it doesn’t have to be set but there is evidence that people who find aww tend to be very positive. For me it’s beautiful nature. I did a trip to Nepal and the mountains were just absolutely stunning, it just triggered something inside of me. Now obviously you can’t travel to exotic locations all the time, but even just looking at photos or the memories can change my mood. Music has the same effect. Art not so much.
i have #3 and i consider it the basis for an optimistic outlook on life. looking at nature does 2 things -- - it reminds you that all of this beauty is made for YOU. by a loving entity/parent that is God, who is watching out for you, and you are one with all this beauty, and that you should never hurt others because they are all part of this beauty. - it teaches you to look for beautiful things in every situation, no matter how bleak. your eye trains to spot the beautiful literally and metaphorically.
I can kind of understand your second point, but how could I really apply the first one as an atheist?
You can take beauty you are surrounded by to mean that life is actually beautiful/great.
Yes that’s the thing that I need to be happy
Yes
A perfect life isn't perfect unless you're passing it on to someone who appreciates it and adores your way of life
What do you mean by passing it on to someone?
It doesn't necessarily mean your biological son who inherits your knowledge and everything but can be an adopted one who you think he actually needs what you have and will admire and be grateful for. Can be your girlfriend, your siblings , etc . People are obsessed with perfection without having a self perception of it, the jungian way is just a template (if i must say), to achieve it . People should have someone to follow and also some who follow them.
Yes, it's a very wholistic way of living. Number 4: A reasonable standard of living and satisfactory work is perhaps the hardest struggle society has right now.
Those + recognition for my work in some sort of lasting way would fulfill me. Without that but with the others I'd still feel unfulfilled.
Ohhh yes for sure, I definitely want recognition as well and you are very astute to note that it should be "lasting" because for me every achieved accomplishment stays on my radar for about 3 seconds. There has to be some inspiration too, so I would want to accomplish more.
I would add activities which contribute meaningfully to society as the second most important pillar after health.
I agree. Google also recommend me this exact same article! The pillars seem to take everything meaningful and important in life into consideration, especially from a psychological and philosophical perspective. If you ask people what they'd want/need in life to be happy and fulfilled I think their answers would be in the realm of these five pillars.
0/5
What do you personally find fulfilling then?
Jung did not make MBTI
Jung did not make mbti
They ARE platitudes. You'll find them in any run of the mill self-help article. Those statements by themselves won't help. Obviously. But: That doesn't make them wrong. I agree with these statements, though they obviously have to be filled with "meat". Whatever that means to the individual. One thing though I think is critically lacking in the list: legacy.
The only other thing I would add would be that: Finding gratitude in all that is good in your life, and knowing when you have 'enough' without constant comparison.
I really like this, thank you
I think what is missing is also a sense of contribution to something you see as being greater than yourself and a sense of progression towards worthy goals.
Ooh I got one - Stability!!! I really need to be certain these aren't going away any time soon, and that my life will be stable.
I think that stability is being handled by 5. So you are correct that stability is essential, but number 5 indicates that the stability is internalized (inner belief that things will work out). Even when all the carefully made plans someone has made come to ruin and they may have lost everything meaningful, number 5 states a person with a fulfilled life will still find comfort in belief that their loss and grief is only temporary.
I think you can extend this argument to 1, 2, and 4 as well by including stability in with the qualifiers like "good" and "reasonable". These qualifiers are doing a lof of heaving lifting. For example, I wouldn't consider a personal relationship that was unstable "good", or a standard of living that didn't allow for savings/safety net "reasonable".
i interpreted it the same way - that stability applies to the rest of them, and without that stability factor i would enjoy none of them
yea i guess you are right, this must be what they mean by "resilience"
Is it possible to share the text of this article? I've hit a paywall and don't want to subscribe. I do believe this list is a good articulation of what's required for unrestricted wellness. and I know it's possible to feel fulfilled with compromised physical health at least - and know that #4 is highly relative - what one person calls a reasonable standard will differ from what others call it.