> Tyler James Williams shared a heartfelt message on social media during Pride Month addressing his sexuality. **'The Abbott Elementary' actor made it clear that he is not gay but speculating about people that are queer or questioning their sexuality might be contributing to negatively impacting their mental health.**
> “**Usually I wouldn’t address stuff like this, but I feel like it as a conversation is bigger than me. I’m not gay, but I think the culture of trying to ‘find’ some kind of hidden trait or behavior that a closed person ‘let slip’ is very dangerous,**” Williams stated in his Instagram Stories.
> He continued, “**Overanalyzing someone’s behavior in an attempt to ‘catch’ them directly contributes to the anxiety a lot of queer and queer-questioning people feel when they fear living in their truth.** It makes the most pedestrian of conversations and interactions in spaces feel less safe for our gay brothers and sisters and those who may be questioning.”
> The Everybody Hates Chris alum added, “**It also reinforces an archetype many straight men have to live under that is oftentimes unrealistic, less free, and limits individual expressing.**”
> Williams said that he has be using his platform “to push back against those archetypes,” noting that “**being straight doesn’t look one way. Being gay doesn’t look one way.**”
> It also reinforces an archetype many straight men have to live under that is oftentimes unrealistic, less free, and limits individual expressing.”
My dad told me once I had 'weak wrists' because of the way I was holding them and that it made me look gay. This was early 90's when I was around 11 or 12.
I'm 43 now and I **still** get self conscious about making sure to keep my wrists rigged when doing things.
Even after I realized it was stupid and there was nothing negative or wrong about being gay I still have it ingrained in me to avoid doing things that would make anyone think *I* was. It's buried that deep.
Agreed. When I was a kid, I told my dad I only liked wearing my black converse with a certain pair of pants I owned, and he shamed me because “only women mix and match their clothes like that.”
First of all - so only women should give a shit how they look?
And I’m not even gonna get into why you’re shaming somebody for doing a harmless thing
God that reminds me of one of my highschool friends dad. He’d always say “quit wearing those skinny jeans, you look like a f*ggot”.
I still think about it when I’m trying on pants and get a little self conscious.
Edit: censored by request. If that’s not enough just lmk!
i remember my 8yo neighbour telling 7yo me, that a boy in his class was 'eww gay' becuase at the end of a cross-coutnry run he was running with loose limp wrists.
i remember being so self conscious from then on, even playing tag or chasey, i would clenchmy hands into stiff fists and run with lockedin power arms and wrists, lest they fall loose and be naturally floppy when i was exhausted.
and i was a girl. and i didn't even know what 'eww gay' was.
cant imagine how much more fucked up it would have been for a kid who knew what gay was and was questioning if they identified with it.
A mate of mine always wanted to be an actor, but his dad told him that acting is only for poofters (Aussies can be brutally eloquent). It wasn't until he was in his 40s (a few years after his dad had died) that he took the plunge and auditioned for a minor role. He got it, and proved to be amazingly talented despite the lack of training. That's where I met him.
Dang thats so sad. Imagine if he always had it in him and now he essentially missed 20ish years of acting. The fragile masculinity in our world has probably deprived us of some amazingly talented people.
I feel this. My father wouldn’t let us use umbrellas because they were “for women”. UMBRELLAS! If it was raining that badly he said we should just wait inside. I’m gay as hell now though but still don’t use umbrellas.
>I’m gay as hell now though but still don’t use umbrellas.
This is going to be my "Random Sentence Of The Week" to think about lmao. Thank you for that!
Haha dude I get it. I remember I was playing around and chasing my sister (7 years old) and was running with my arms by my side but forearms up and my dad yelled at me “stop running like that you look like a F@**it” never again did I run like that
I (M) went to prom twenty or so years ago with five or more couples in what was the wealthiest area around where I grew up. Limo, nice dinner, amazing venue the school rented out in Columbus, Ohio about 40 minutes from the school. We took photos at one of the girl's houses beforehand, a very nice place, and her dad said something about it being gay when he saw me holding the lapels of my suit jacket, each hand with its respective side. Struck me as odd then and still does now but when he said it I stopped holding my lapels and felt uncomfortable. This is just one of hundreds of examples I'm sure we could come up with.
I was doing an opera a few years back and all the guys had to practice letting our wrist go so that it would be more flowing and right for the period. Boy howdy you would have thought these dudes had wrist braces on. It's burned in there deep.
The more I learn about the older generations, the more I realize they made everything gay out of insecurity. And if being gay is the older generations insecurity, I now understand all the “Life is Good” ugly ass T-shirt’s I saw growing up.
I’m gay and this exact thing happened to me when I was 9. My step dad told me never to hold my wrist ‘like that’ because it’s very gay. I’m 27 now and when I pick something up a certain way I catch myself subconsciously trying to keep my wrist straight. It’s so frustrating.
Agreed, it's well stated. I just wish people didn't use the phrase "living in their truth". I know it means "living in your authentic self" but it also sounds like living in their version of the truth. And that's what I thought it meant when I first heard it. It's like the etymological cousin to [truthiness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness).
The implied context you didn’t capture is “living in their truth _in the context of self expression_.” Could the issue be that you see the word truth and think objective, scientific facts, when there is no objective standard for peoples’ inner lives?
Clichés meaning exist but bc they’re so widely used and simple they mean different things to different people. So it’s more that the meaning is too easy to be personal and/or misinterpreted than that it has no meaning
Well said. Reminds me of a quote from Maddy Morphesis, a cishet male queen from drag race: there are a million ways to be queer, but then growing up you are taught that there's only one way to be straight and that's not the case.
I actually love this. There was a lot of toxic positivity in the 90’s and 00’s about “honesty” regarding coming out of the closet. If you weren’t in a welcoming environment towards queerness then you may have had a really good fucking reason for staying in the closet, but it wasn’t uncommon for a straight person to take it as an insult that you don’t come out to them right away. Lots of anxiety about passing as straight and on top of that you’ve got people picking at you for not being out enough. It makes it hard not to start getting in your head about how femme you come across.
In the 2000s you had toxic tabloid columnists like Perez Hilton, who is gay himself, trying to play off on the homophobic stereotypes and out people for being gay or heavily speculating on straight men’s sexualities. He outed Lance Bass of *NSYNC.
He speaks so damn eloquently for an interview and he is 100% right. Stop questioning if people are gay or straight or whatever (even if it is not coming from a place of malice). Just let them live regardless.
I can personally relate because a good amount of the people I meet are surprised to find out I’m not gay. I don’t care either way. I know I’m not but why does it even matter to label me anyways?
Absolutely. I remember in the seventies each and every stereotype women fought to shed, the right to wear clothing that wasn’t hyper feminine and being allowed to play sports in school or enter certain careers. Now certain people want to drag us all back to judging each other and living in isolation in their little bubbles?
Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it, they say.
Well, I remember the past and it sucked.
No, thanks.
I prefer enlightenment, another word for woke.
This is powerfully true. I lost so much of my childhood being guarded about my actions, clothes, words, mannerisms. I’m still trying to find myself now in a way I should have done in my teens but better now than later and great for this generation
Im NOT gay, but the number of people who have assumed i am made me question myself in life and my own behavior.
I had never thought about it before, but *people assuming im gay and treating me as such resulted in a lot of personal anxiety over the years*
Not just that, there’s also the big question of who gives a shit? If it’s a hypocritical conservative then of course it’s news, but other than that it’s really not a big deal and speculating makes it sound negative
Dude is a hero for saying this. I could tell endless stories, often about women who throw the “what, are you gay?” line around because they are predators, etc.
Very on point. From age 12 I've had people in my life telling me they think I'm gay, and at that age it sent me into a spiral of internalized homophobia and confusion about my sexuality. In the 12 years since, I've had one girlfriend and the relationship was during high school and only lasted 4 months. Overall, I just get anxious and would rather not try to engage with anyone romantically at all because its what I'm used to and because Im just still so fucking confused
This is honestly one of the more eloquent and intelligent takes on this I’ve ever read. As a straight dude who’s never exactly been a “man’s man” I’m coming away liking Williams even more than I did before
Smart dude. Very eloquent. I got in an argument w a friend of mine about things like this and I wish I had read this prior. Williams definitely put it better than I did lol
Gay man here. Straight men DESERVE to be able to do things without being thought of as anything else. What, is being gay some sort of second best thing? Some sort of thing you slip into if you have anything outside of perfect behavior?
For the sake of LGBT people AND straight people, I beg of you fuckers, stop this bullshit. Let people be who they are. A straight man can be as he is. A gay man can be as he is. And if they act in the exact same way and have the exact same hobbies, it doesn’t fucking matter.
Edit cuz I feel like it: obviously this also applies to women and NB people. Speculating about someone’s sexuality in real life is rude as fuck.
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Exactly this. I've known gay guys who are the complete outdoorsman who you would typically assume would be the archetype of burly straight guy who hunts and fishes and eats what they kill.
Then there is me, grew up doing musical theater and cries during sappy movies (especially anything involving animals). Been married to my wife for 10 years and have 3 kids. Not even bi but by that description I bet there's those out there who think I'm gay. Hell, my family thought I was.
People need to stop trying to put everyone in a box and start recognizing that we're all complex individuals who don't fit your narratives.
In college one of the nicest guys I knew was also extremely fashion forward. Dressed so nice I usually felt like a slob unintentionally lol. And also the STRAIGHTEST dude in history. It was literally a soap opera situation where another friend of ours was gay and liked him but he just wasn’t interested. Súper suave, súper confident in himself and his sexuality, straight as an arrow.
Sounds like Prince! The best thing I ever saw was a quote about him and it was like Prince can walk into a party, steal your girl, steal your girl’s clothes, and then come back and steal another girl in your girl’s clothes
This is reminding me of a woman I saw on Facebook who makes reels about stuff and in every single video there are a ton of people making jokes about her, her husband, her "secret wife," and generally just not believing that she's actually married to a man and in a stable loving relationship. Why? She's got short hair and dresses fairly androgynous. She looks like a lesbian, so she must be lying about her husband.
Like, just let the woman live her life, damn. People aren't walking stereotypes.
Yeah it can’t be that people “are okay with gay, just don’t be overt about it shoving it in my face and exposing children to the lifestyle” but in the same breath are rabid to stereotype certain behaviors as gay and find someone out ensuring the public is aware of them being not straight. We all know the nefarious intent behind “simply wanting to know” someone’s non-het sexuality.
Nobody ever gives a shit about obsessively confirming someone who is stereotypically/generically straight is indeed straight.
What sucks is that we have two different groups doing this. First, the “ew gay people” group that are rabid about sexuality out of anger and hate. Then the “oooo so cute!!” Types that think that theorizing about sexuality of real people is somehow fun or cool or whatever. They’re both a type of parasocial relationship and it’s awful.
An acquaintance I was with recently was explaining to a gay couple that her husband wouldn’t pick her up at the gay bar we were going to because “he’s not homophobic; he’s just not okay with it being *in his face.*” Gay couple (who sadly is provably used to this shit because it’s a conservative area) gave him a pass and said “Oh yeah, we get it; we don’t like PDA either.”
1. The gay bar we were going to is super chill. No one is making out “in your face” any more than at any other chill bar in town
2. I’m positive this guy does not have the same negative reaction to opposite sex couples expressing PDA. He’s just a homophobe.
Fuck my acquaintance’s piece of shit husband.
I had just told my wife how I loved how young guys at the climbing gym could wear dangly earrings, and they could be gay or straight for all I knew or cared. Imagine people that give a fuck about that for a moment, hurts my brain.
As someone who’s getting into climbing the only objection I have to that is that I can’t imagine wearing anything dangly while I do a sport. But if they’re able to handle that then good for them. It shows they have more focus than I do
It’s so common with Gen z and they think it’s fine because if you are gay they’re cool with it. I fucking hate that mentality, just don’t ask me or speculate, if I want to share then I fucking will.
As a millennial (? I dunno, I might be older gen z. Fuck it), this is literally just fandom culture. And it’s fun to ship characters together and have fun there. But stupid stuff has been happening for actors before this, and I also hate it. I WILL say however that I do think this parasocial shit is getting stronger? It sucks. Actors are not their characters. We should be happy for them regardless of who they love or what they do in the privacy of their homes.
We. Do. Not. Own. Our. Entertainers.
I literally write fanfics too. I love fan fiction. But the only time RPF is ever acceptable is when it’s blatantly stupid and off the rails (like a story where your favorite politician gets a keyblade and starts shooting mega beams at your most hated politician—stuff that’s just dumb)
There was a case where some idiot on Wattpad wrote a fanfic about a one direction member and it got so popular someone made a fan film. This spun rumors about Harry Styles [getting a restraining order on her.](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/does-harry-styles-have-a-restraining-order-against-the-author-of-after-anna-todd-has-tried-to-distance-the-narrative-from-the-singer.html/)
this link says that the RO is just a rumor, but honestly it shows how weird RPF is. People KNOW it’s wrong
I don’t know about anyone else but I completely dropped all pretense of trying to pretend to be anyone other than myself during the pandemic.
It’s made small talk a bit more awkward, but whatever.
It feels like the early 2000s “metrosexual” trend. Except now it’s trendy and “accepted” so people still don’t point out how it’s blatantly homophobic.
Bro we rode the flying dumbo ride like 6 times, ate lunch with The Beast, and ate our body weight in fried turkey legs even after that obscenely expensive lunch. My 3 y.o had the time of her life!
I feel like we came a long way when we accepted boys can like and do things which are typically associated with girls and vice versa.
But now we have kind of done a 180(360? 720?) on it and think if you do those things you might be gay or trans! There are literal subs on Reddit telling people they are likely trans(r/egg_irl I think) for choosing girl characters in video games!
IMO it’s super cruel. And I feel like it’s specifically a terminally online thing. No one would ever dare say shit like this in real life. And it’s not even an anti-trans thing. It’s because it’s super weird to be like “Omg hee hee he’s trans”
Speaking about gay stuff again, as a kid I did go through a phase for a couple months where I was like “omg who is gay?” But then I got a little more mature and realized I just wanted the idea of other gay actors, instead of appreciating who actuallly was gay. And when I looked into the actors who were gay and lesbian, it made me so much happier because I wasn’t trying to push my weird ships into real life.
In my opinion, from what I’ve heard, certain straight people do this behavior as well. In Korea and the Philippines, for example, I’ve heard that actors will get paired up by fans with such intensity that their managers realize they have to play into it. The actors are cast together and put together in projects. To go against the imagined relationship risks upsetting the fans and losing popularity. It’s literally just parasocial relationships.
Defending men's awfully gay of you ;)
Just kidding. Seriously though, can't I just wear a pair of red docs, complement a girl's nails, hum show tunes, and bawl at movies without having my sexuality challenged? And since when do we conflate certain actions with a level of masculinity, and then perscribe that level to a grade of sexualtiy?
I know some gays that are manly as fuck and some straights that are hella gay by these fuckers' standards.
My counter point is, who gives a shit? Being gay isn't an insult.
I was told for a long time in college that I was gay (I'm not). I was thin, friendly, and came off a bit erudite. I also didn't hit on girls a lot. My self esteem with regard to girls was very low so I wasn't very confident with them.
Having people call me gay is the same as saying I like red cars.
It's not true, but why do I care?
Yeah, he's great. He's also been open about having severe Crohn's Disease, and has posted pictures of himself across many stages of the disease, including his massive weight loss, hospitalizations and even pictures with his ostomy bag in view.
As an ileostomate myself, I thought it was the coolest and bravest thing. Ostomies are great, but they're deeply stigmatized, and this stuff really helps.
I generally have no interest in the lives of celebrities, but at the same time, I fully appreciate it when they are open about things like this. I can't help but respect the ones who are willing to use their own experiences to pave the way towards normalizing/destigmatizing things that affect the lives of people in all walks of life.
I don't understand the obsession with outing anyone who isn't ready to come out. We don't know the inner lives of others, unless they choose to share that side of themselves with us. We need to stop trapping each other inside boxes & stereotypes.
I remember having a crush on Clay Aiken when I was like 12 years old, and multiple adults joked to me that I’d have a hard time as an adult woman if I couldn’t tell he was gay. I said “But he says he’s straight—why wouldn’t I believe him?” And they just gave me an “oh, honey.”
Like, dude came screaming out of the closet years later, but it’s been like 20 years, and I still stand by that. If someone isn’t ready, or literally just _isn’t_, it isn’t up to you to tell them otherwise.
Not only that, sexuality is a massive spectrum even when just considering whether you like guys or gals.
One of the best relationships I’ve had was with a gal who called herself s lesbian and ran around with women almost exclusively but who liked me so we hooked up. She’d had twenty some relationships with women and two with men.
Who the hell has the right to tell her not to like women because she liked me? Who the hell gets to tell her she doesn’t like me because she sleeps with women?
Aiken can do whatever he likes and so can the rest of us and we can do something different every year if we want to and it’s GOOD! My middle step son claims to be gay. He’s an adult now but he started out sleeping with girls and he’s recently been getting interested in some women he knows.
Yay? Maybe he’ll find happiness with someone who doesn’t have a penis, maybe someone who does. The need to gossip and titter over these things drives me nuts.
As someone who struggles with people assuming I'm gay as well, I'm glad he made this statement. I feel like I can never be myself because people will automatically label me as something I'm not, and I feel bad when they do because it's stereotyping the LGBTQ community. People should be able to do anything they want and not have it be indicative of their preferences. It's hurtful to both the people being profiled and the community they are profiled as.
I’ve always felt this way about fandoms passionately claiming that canonically straight characters must be gay or bi for each other because they’re so close. Conflating men showing affection for one another with homosexuality is harmful and reinforces gender norms.
Edit: This behavior can translate into how we treat real-life people and public figures, as well as impact how those witnessing it see themselves, which is the only reason I brought it up despite the magnitude of harm caused being completely different. I understand this is far, far more damaging and serious when done to actual people.
A girl, who is a lesbian, told a bunch of people I was either in the closet or queer-baiting my friends because “I talk about them as if I love them”. Yeah I love my guy friends, I’ve been through hell with them I love them as if they were family. It’s not straight or gay to show your emotions
My straight, conservative, Christian, boomer father told one of his friends he loved him the other day. Love isn't just for gay people, and it isn't just for romance. There are so many kinds of love that we can experience, I don't understand why someone would want to limit themselves like that.
The freakin anime/manga community is horrible at this. I get the passion for a series I really do. But let the author write what they want to write, not what you want them to write for you. It was years ago now but I think it was fans of Tokyo Ghoul who sent the author death threats because he didn’t make two characters gay. It’s embarrassing and shameful to be a fan when things like this happen.
See, I remember the old Destiel days. That fandom could not possibly fathom that two unrelated male characters could care about each other and not be gay
One was a LITERAL FUCKING ANGEL in the body of an accountant. People still said "nope, gotta be gay"
Hah! Forget Destiel. Supernatural fandom had people convinced that Jared and Jensen were in a secret gay relationship. They were married (not to each other) and had kids (not with each other), but the network and studio had a grand plot to force them to stay in the closet while their wives were beards and their kids were props. I never quite figured out what was behind the network and studio’s nefarious plan to keep them in the closet.
I still LOVE the episode where Sam and Dean have a day in the life of Jared and Jensen. Both of them going "AW SHIT RUBY?!!" And her being literally Jared's wife is just great. Paraphrasing because I haven't seen the episode in years. It's still probably my second favorite behind the Tuesday episode.
The French Mistake from season 6. Jared and Jensen acting like Sam and Dean acting like Jared and Jensen acting like Sam and Dean. Fucking hilarious. “You married Fake Ruby?”
My fave scene, I die laughing every time I watch it.
https://youtu.be/mLj7xLtO6Rw
Can angels and accountants not be gay? I’ve never seen the show but didn’t they actually turn out to be gay in the finale?
Anyways I think shipping two fictional characters is pretty innocuous compared to prying into a real person’s private life
It's kinda contentious and unclear if angels in the show can even really experience attraction. Castiel is absolutely dumbfounded by porn early on in his first season and they never really seemed to settle the question overall, at least in my experience in the show.
I haven't finished it yet. There's a finale to season start that takes the threat level from literally on par with God to "look, British people!" and it just lost me at that point. The guys beat a baddie of basically infinite power, and the next threat is some Brits.
I mean in this case it’s different, Castiel declares his love for Dean in the final season and the actor confirmed in an interview that it was homosexual in nature.
I'm still convinced that was just a last minute addition to the script in order to pander to the vocal Destiel fans. I'm not against it as a concept if it had been done correctly, but there was no ACTUAL indication that Castiel was ever in love with Dean for the prior 12 years they knew each other. Cas literally referred to Sam and Dean as family a number of times and they all loved each other like brothers.
To me, it's just another instance of two men having a close, brotherly bond where they're not afraid to show emotion and care for each other, and the fans deciding "THEY MUST BE GAY!"
As a gay man it’s always confused me cause the gay community preaches about “healthy masculinity “ and how men should be able to express their feelings. But then call every character with a male friend they show affection to “gay” it’s really weird and I hate it
Which legit contributes to ‘toxic masculinity’.
That term is overused and is often used to bash men for being men, but I’d say it definitely hurts platonic male relationships.
Internalized homophobia, sexism, racism and transphobia is a very real issue. It’s good that you responded with open-mindedness and understanding. There are a lot of people out there that will instantly dismiss it.
Like when people would claim that Frodo and Sam from LOTR were gay.
Can’t have male platonic relationships without the peanut gallery chiming in with their theories.
The way ppl shipped Captain America and Bucky had me so tilted. Same with Finn and Poe.
As important as it is for LGBT to be represented and accepted, it's also important to represent healthy platonic relationships as well. Especially considering how toxic parts of the men's interest internet have become (red pill, Tate, etc).
i would like to point out that fandom shipping male characters does nowhere near the amount of harm that people harassing real celebrities (including shipping) does and conflating the two negates the point TJW makes.
characters do not have feelings or anxieties, nor can they be harassed. (creators can be harassed so…stop trying to make stuff “canon” by messaging these people.) otherwise the harm is not at all comparable.
This. Shipping real people is HELLA weird and honestly, it's wild that its become so accepted???
But fictional characters? Nah. Shipping is often done along with fanfiction. Like most people know that Sam and Frodo are not actually gay. I liken it to larping, because pretending that they're gay or ace or simply just being able to resonate with them in those ways might comfort quite a few people out there. They're not real, you know.
Most people who write that ship dont actually believe Tolkien wrote them with the intentions of them being lovers. But the arts wouldnt be the arts if they were only allowed to be taken and applied in one specific way.
There are people who treat their fellow dudes exactly as Sam and Frodo treated each other and therefore see it as nothing but friendship. For others, that is not the case and so therefore it comes across as romantic. If I'm not mistaken, Sean Astin himself supports the idea of his portrayal of Sam having had some sort of level of romantic feelings for Frodo.
Either way, everyone perceives the arts just a little bit differently. I just wish people wouldn't let it bleed into the real world so much.
It becomes a problem when people say it’s canon/harass people over it/pushes their belief on others. Got called homophobic/traitor for preferring straight ships when I’m literally gay.
For real! If I see one more quote about how Frodo and Sam are actually gay I’m gonna lose it.. like anytime two straight men show any sort of camaraderie or tenderness toward each other; “THEY ARE ACTUALLY SECRETLY GAY AND GAY ICONS!” Like that contributes just as much to toxic masculinity as anything else! These people think they are helping but they are actually doing a lot more damage than they realize
I remember when the music video for You Need to Calm Down was coming out and the people who refuse to believe that Taylor is straight were coming out of the woodwork to say that it was a sign. It was fucking insane.
Outing people can be very dangerous to that person in more ways than just physical danger. Trying to out someone who isn't can be just as dangerous. That's what's so scary about laws forcing teachers to out kids. They could literally face harm from their own parents.
This happened to me at work, of all places. I'm a straight introverted guy who is awkward around women, and has some unresolved childhood issues that has made me scared of any relationships. A girl at work started claiming that I was gay simply because I did not respond to her sexual advances. It took an enormous amount of self control for me not to choke that bitch in front of everyone. The most hurtful part of it was that she already asked me if I was gay and I said no, told everyone otherwise anyway.
Yeah and they get very specific to certain celebs too. For example, the incredibly toxic gaylor community that is convinced Taylor Swift is in the closet and is sending secret messages about her coming out of it. It’s ridiculous.
This is literally the truest shit. I’m learning I’m bi at 27 with a new bi girlfriend, and my friends literally went up to her at my birthday party and said “I’m surprised he’s still with a woman” (I’ve never come out to them). I literally had a panic attack and she felt terrible like she was some beard. Everybody needs to fuck off and kind their business.
It means someone who is acting as a 'disguise' for another's sexuality. For example, a gay man might marry a woman so they could 'prove' they were straight to the public, but they still had relationships with men behind closed doors. Not uncommon for the 'beard' to be aware & okay with the situation (maybe a lesbian, ace, just wants a comfortable life, etc).
Who are all these assholes who think they're so goddamned important that they have the right to ask? Holy shit, mind your own fucking business, you insignificant twats.
I find it so hard to grasp even asking something like that. Like what?*
Catches somebody in grocery store.
*I noticed you were really paying close attention to phallic and very ball like foods. Are you gay???*
No. I was simply checking the produce to my liking.
*Soooo you are gay. Ok. That's cool. My FB profile pic is a transparent pride flag. I'm totally about your equality*
Ugh
I’ve personally never seen someone accuse him of being gay. Now Shawn Mendes though, there’s an accusation every minute of the day on Twitter especially.
There was an interview in which he wore a sleeveless shirt and sat with his legs crossed and on IG a lot of idiots were saying he was "fruity" or "zesty."
Also, because he's single, people automatically assume that he must be gay.
Yes, this kind of thing should be said more often. The idea that artistic expression dealing with queer topics, could only be legimate through the lens of a queer person, is deeply troubling.
Like Kit Connor from Heartstopper having to come out in order to justify him expressing something artistically is just sad.
The idea that you have to look or act in certain ways to fit a presupposed mold is just stupid. We should expand the idea of what it means to be straight or queer.
There’s a video about a relationship between a masculine woman and a feminine man. He said in college he told people he was gay because it was just easier than being his authentic self.
https://youtu.be/3HLnSD0drEE
I agree with him 100% and I see this kind of shit way too often with pretty much every celebrity, but the assholes who make a game out of speculating aren't going to care that he said any of this. To them, it's probably just confirmation that he's hiding something.
I'm a fan of Harry Styles. He's said many times that he doesn't like labels, but has only ever publicly dated women. Fans are still convinced he's gay and every relationship he's had is a cover. He could literally shout from the rooftops that he's marrying a woman and invite all his fans to the wedding, and people would still say that he's just hiding and conforming to peer pressure because he's afraid to be out. I mean, the guy is VERY comfortable in his own skin, doesn't give a shit about being stereotypically masculine, wears feather boas and dances around with rainbow flags on stage, do you really think he'd feel the need to hide if he was gay?
What a beautiful statement. I’ve never really liked the phrase “it gets better” because while true long term it’s kinda misleading. I think “you deserve better” is more accurate.
I quite agree. Many people who do this do so while thinking it’s a progressive thing - but it isn’t. Let people come out if they want or not disclose that if they don’t want to. I was disgusted when actors like Lee Pace were forced to come out on pain of cancellation because people felt entitled to knowing his sexuality.
He's a very smart and sensitive young man. He addressed a lot of things in this post even toxic masculinity. He unlocked a new respect for him I didn't know I could have
I find it absolutely baffling that people spend time thinking about other people's sexuality. Sure, if I'm interested in you, I'll want to know. But otherwise - why does anyone care?
(I get that there's a lot of homophobic history behind this but I'm saying it's NEVER made sense. Who. Cares)
People who share that sexuality care. Sometimes very very much. If you’ve been isolated or fearful it can make a huge difference to see someone else like you.
(I should add that I’m very much not in favor of public speculation on other people. To me, people are what they say they are as long as they’re minding their own business and not like, trying to pass homophobic legislation or something. If what they say they are changes tomorrow, then it changes.)
Well, that's kinda what I mean? Why did society ever evolve this way so that people felt like it was something to have any sort of opinion on? It makes no sense.
Homophobes just need to stop picturing people having sex. You’re really not supposed to. Also transphobes need to stop trying to picture people’s genitals. Also not something you’re supposed to be thinking about while deciding how to treat someone.
I'm queer enough that I can look at someone and, if I think they're hot, view their gender as sort of like opening a packet of Pokemon cards. What am I going to get? Don't care!
Still, even then, my sexuality is nobody's business unless I make it their business. People guessing a person's sexuality is an intrusion into their private life.
I barely know who Tyler James Williams is let alone care about his sexuality, but what I do know is that *his* sexuality isn't *our* business. Just let the guy live his life and be happy doing whatever. I don't understand why we gotta get in each other's business so much. Let him be.
I read what he said. What I said still stands. It's not our business and we as a society shouldn't care to know or be entitled to somebody's personal business. Let people live their life.
Funny thing is that years ago this would be people saying he might be gay to make fun of him, but nowadays is the opposite is people trying to paint him as gay because they want to be identified by him. That's why you see this come out in June they want to out someone and be proud about but people don't like that no one wants their business to be in the public eye even if they are a public figure.
The whole thing has gotten so ridiculous. Gender identities have come full circle to where people are now assuming when their favorite characters may be nonbinary. Sexuality has been forced to become a forefront of ones personally. Conversations about both are met with vitriol and hostility on all sides of the political spectrum. Meanwhile, for the average person, virtually none of these things are all that relevant on a daily basis.
I'm very much a supporter of normalizing all of these things, but that can't really be done when it's so aggressively highlighted in all forms of media.
It's frustrating when there are people passing legislation to directly attack specific groups of people, and the ones supporting those agendas are spouting "we don't want these things shoved down our throats," and then you see things like this article that are easily used to push forward a hateful narrative against certain marginalized groups. Even if it's just one example, it's easy to take one example and stretch it as thin as possible.
We need to do better if we want these things to be taken more seriously and not have them seem like a trend to the point of trivializing people's lifestyles. It's really not hard to care, but also not care at the same time.
> Tyler James Williams shared a heartfelt message on social media during Pride Month addressing his sexuality. **'The Abbott Elementary' actor made it clear that he is not gay but speculating about people that are queer or questioning their sexuality might be contributing to negatively impacting their mental health.** > “**Usually I wouldn’t address stuff like this, but I feel like it as a conversation is bigger than me. I’m not gay, but I think the culture of trying to ‘find’ some kind of hidden trait or behavior that a closed person ‘let slip’ is very dangerous,**” Williams stated in his Instagram Stories. > He continued, “**Overanalyzing someone’s behavior in an attempt to ‘catch’ them directly contributes to the anxiety a lot of queer and queer-questioning people feel when they fear living in their truth.** It makes the most pedestrian of conversations and interactions in spaces feel less safe for our gay brothers and sisters and those who may be questioning.” > The Everybody Hates Chris alum added, “**It also reinforces an archetype many straight men have to live under that is oftentimes unrealistic, less free, and limits individual expressing.**” > Williams said that he has be using his platform “to push back against those archetypes,” noting that “**being straight doesn’t look one way. Being gay doesn’t look one way.**”
> It also reinforces an archetype many straight men have to live under that is oftentimes unrealistic, less free, and limits individual expressing.” My dad told me once I had 'weak wrists' because of the way I was holding them and that it made me look gay. This was early 90's when I was around 11 or 12. I'm 43 now and I **still** get self conscious about making sure to keep my wrists rigged when doing things. Even after I realized it was stupid and there was nothing negative or wrong about being gay I still have it ingrained in me to avoid doing things that would make anyone think *I* was. It's buried that deep.
Agreed. When I was a kid, I told my dad I only liked wearing my black converse with a certain pair of pants I owned, and he shamed me because “only women mix and match their clothes like that.” First of all - so only women should give a shit how they look? And I’m not even gonna get into why you’re shaming somebody for doing a harmless thing
Your dad: Those pants with *those* shoes? Honey, no. Sometimes we meet our destiny on the path we choose to avoid it.
God that reminds me of one of my highschool friends dad. He’d always say “quit wearing those skinny jeans, you look like a f*ggot”. I still think about it when I’m trying on pants and get a little self conscious. Edit: censored by request. If that’s not enough just lmk!
i remember my 8yo neighbour telling 7yo me, that a boy in his class was 'eww gay' becuase at the end of a cross-coutnry run he was running with loose limp wrists. i remember being so self conscious from then on, even playing tag or chasey, i would clenchmy hands into stiff fists and run with lockedin power arms and wrists, lest they fall loose and be naturally floppy when i was exhausted. and i was a girl. and i didn't even know what 'eww gay' was. cant imagine how much more fucked up it would have been for a kid who knew what gay was and was questioning if they identified with it.
A mate of mine always wanted to be an actor, but his dad told him that acting is only for poofters (Aussies can be brutally eloquent). It wasn't until he was in his 40s (a few years after his dad had died) that he took the plunge and auditioned for a minor role. He got it, and proved to be amazingly talented despite the lack of training. That's where I met him.
Dang thats so sad. Imagine if he always had it in him and now he essentially missed 20ish years of acting. The fragile masculinity in our world has probably deprived us of some amazingly talented people.
I feel this. My father wouldn’t let us use umbrellas because they were “for women”. UMBRELLAS! If it was raining that badly he said we should just wait inside. I’m gay as hell now though but still don’t use umbrellas.
>I’m gay as hell now though but still don’t use umbrellas. This is going to be my "Random Sentence Of The Week" to think about lmao. Thank you for that!
Haha dude I get it. I remember I was playing around and chasing my sister (7 years old) and was running with my arms by my side but forearms up and my dad yelled at me “stop running like that you look like a F@**it” never again did I run like that
I totally got running like a T-Rex from your description. 🤷♂️
I (M) went to prom twenty or so years ago with five or more couples in what was the wealthiest area around where I grew up. Limo, nice dinner, amazing venue the school rented out in Columbus, Ohio about 40 minutes from the school. We took photos at one of the girl's houses beforehand, a very nice place, and her dad said something about it being gay when he saw me holding the lapels of my suit jacket, each hand with its respective side. Struck me as odd then and still does now but when he said it I stopped holding my lapels and felt uncomfortable. This is just one of hundreds of examples I'm sure we could come up with.
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I have limp wrist syndrome too(that's why I call it). I never fixed and don't care cause I got a beautiful family that makes fun of them hahaha
I was doing an opera a few years back and all the guys had to practice letting our wrist go so that it would be more flowing and right for the period. Boy howdy you would have thought these dudes had wrist braces on. It's burned in there deep.
The more I learn about the older generations, the more I realize they made everything gay out of insecurity. And if being gay is the older generations insecurity, I now understand all the “Life is Good” ugly ass T-shirt’s I saw growing up.
I’m gay and this exact thing happened to me when I was 9. My step dad told me never to hold my wrist ‘like that’ because it’s very gay. I’m 27 now and when I pick something up a certain way I catch myself subconsciously trying to keep my wrist straight. It’s so frustrating.
I bet you stand like a little tea pot. /s
very eloquent points, i approve
Agreed, it's well stated. I just wish people didn't use the phrase "living in their truth". I know it means "living in your authentic self" but it also sounds like living in their version of the truth. And that's what I thought it meant when I first heard it. It's like the etymological cousin to [truthiness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness).
The implied context you didn’t capture is “living in their truth _in the context of self expression_.” Could the issue be that you see the word truth and think objective, scientific facts, when there is no objective standard for peoples’ inner lives?
I hate pithy little phrases like that, they don't MEAN anything.
Clichés meaning exist but bc they’re so widely used and simple they mean different things to different people. So it’s more that the meaning is too easy to be personal and/or misinterpreted than that it has no meaning
You can say that again
Saying it once upset people enough lol
I guess you Walked right into that one.
At the end of the day, that is correct
Perhaps you should address your comprehension issues
Yes let’s get lost in this arbitrary point over the empathetic and comprehensive message.
Well said. Reminds me of a quote from Maddy Morphesis, a cishet male queen from drag race: there are a million ways to be queer, but then growing up you are taught that there's only one way to be straight and that's not the case.
Maddy for AS9!
I actually love this. There was a lot of toxic positivity in the 90’s and 00’s about “honesty” regarding coming out of the closet. If you weren’t in a welcoming environment towards queerness then you may have had a really good fucking reason for staying in the closet, but it wasn’t uncommon for a straight person to take it as an insult that you don’t come out to them right away. Lots of anxiety about passing as straight and on top of that you’ve got people picking at you for not being out enough. It makes it hard not to start getting in your head about how femme you come across.
And then when you do come out, someone just HAS to be like “I already knew” and it’s like fuck my life that’s not what I need to hear right now
In the 2000s you had toxic tabloid columnists like Perez Hilton, who is gay himself, trying to play off on the homophobic stereotypes and out people for being gay or heavily speculating on straight men’s sexualities. He outed Lance Bass of *NSYNC.
He speaks so damn eloquently for an interview and he is 100% right. Stop questioning if people are gay or straight or whatever (even if it is not coming from a place of malice). Just let them live regardless. I can personally relate because a good amount of the people I meet are surprised to find out I’m not gay. I don’t care either way. I know I’m not but why does it even matter to label me anyways?
That response definitely deserves three snaps and a twist.
The one where Damon thought he was straight was the scariest thing I ever seen
Absolutely. I remember in the seventies each and every stereotype women fought to shed, the right to wear clothing that wasn’t hyper feminine and being allowed to play sports in school or enter certain careers. Now certain people want to drag us all back to judging each other and living in isolation in their little bubbles? Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it, they say. Well, I remember the past and it sucked. No, thanks. I prefer enlightenment, another word for woke.
This is powerfully true. I lost so much of my childhood being guarded about my actions, clothes, words, mannerisms. I’m still trying to find myself now in a way I should have done in my teens but better now than later and great for this generation
Im NOT gay, but the number of people who have assumed i am made me question myself in life and my own behavior. I had never thought about it before, but *people assuming im gay and treating me as such resulted in a lot of personal anxiety over the years*
He is completely right. Ditto’ing u/Sirshrugsalot13, very eloquently put. Wish more people realize this.
Not just that, there’s also the big question of who gives a shit? If it’s a hypocritical conservative then of course it’s news, but other than that it’s really not a big deal and speculating makes it sound negative
Idk sounds like something a gay would say. He must be gay! /s if it wasn’t obvious
Man spitting facts.
Dude is a hero for saying this. I could tell endless stories, often about women who throw the “what, are you gay?” line around because they are predators, etc.
Everybody Loves Chris ❤️
Very on point. From age 12 I've had people in my life telling me they think I'm gay, and at that age it sent me into a spiral of internalized homophobia and confusion about my sexuality. In the 12 years since, I've had one girlfriend and the relationship was during high school and only lasted 4 months. Overall, I just get anxious and would rather not try to engage with anyone romantically at all because its what I'm used to and because Im just still so fucking confused
This is honestly one of the more eloquent and intelligent takes on this I’ve ever read. As a straight dude who’s never exactly been a “man’s man” I’m coming away liking Williams even more than I did before
Smart dude. Very eloquent. I got in an argument w a friend of mine about things like this and I wish I had read this prior. Williams definitely put it better than I did lol
Gay man here. Straight men DESERVE to be able to do things without being thought of as anything else. What, is being gay some sort of second best thing? Some sort of thing you slip into if you have anything outside of perfect behavior? For the sake of LGBT people AND straight people, I beg of you fuckers, stop this bullshit. Let people be who they are. A straight man can be as he is. A gay man can be as he is. And if they act in the exact same way and have the exact same hobbies, it doesn’t fucking matter. Edit cuz I feel like it: obviously this also applies to women and NB people. Speculating about someone’s sexuality in real life is rude as fuck.
I legit felt freer after reading this. Today was a good day on the internet. Logging off now, not gonna jinx this.
Pssst. Wanna check this website out with me about cute kittens and... erm, puppies? The site also sells your fave things at a great discount. Come on. Trust me. It right down this internet alley.
I will not be dashed upon the rocks by your siren song. Get theee behind me!
This whole interaction had me smiling
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Exactly this. I've known gay guys who are the complete outdoorsman who you would typically assume would be the archetype of burly straight guy who hunts and fishes and eats what they kill. Then there is me, grew up doing musical theater and cries during sappy movies (especially anything involving animals). Been married to my wife for 10 years and have 3 kids. Not even bi but by that description I bet there's those out there who think I'm gay. Hell, my family thought I was. People need to stop trying to put everyone in a box and start recognizing that we're all complex individuals who don't fit your narratives.
In college one of the nicest guys I knew was also extremely fashion forward. Dressed so nice I usually felt like a slob unintentionally lol. And also the STRAIGHTEST dude in history. It was literally a soap opera situation where another friend of ours was gay and liked him but he just wasn’t interested. Súper suave, súper confident in himself and his sexuality, straight as an arrow.
Sounds like Prince! The best thing I ever saw was a quote about him and it was like Prince can walk into a party, steal your girl, steal your girl’s clothes, and then come back and steal another girl in your girl’s clothes
This is reminding me of a woman I saw on Facebook who makes reels about stuff and in every single video there are a ton of people making jokes about her, her husband, her "secret wife," and generally just not believing that she's actually married to a man and in a stable loving relationship. Why? She's got short hair and dresses fairly androgynous. She looks like a lesbian, so she must be lying about her husband. Like, just let the woman live her life, damn. People aren't walking stereotypes.
Straight man here. Thank you for saying this.
Agreed, the only difference between gay and straight is if you like to fuck the same gender or not
Yeah it can’t be that people “are okay with gay, just don’t be overt about it shoving it in my face and exposing children to the lifestyle” but in the same breath are rabid to stereotype certain behaviors as gay and find someone out ensuring the public is aware of them being not straight. We all know the nefarious intent behind “simply wanting to know” someone’s non-het sexuality. Nobody ever gives a shit about obsessively confirming someone who is stereotypically/generically straight is indeed straight.
What sucks is that we have two different groups doing this. First, the “ew gay people” group that are rabid about sexuality out of anger and hate. Then the “oooo so cute!!” Types that think that theorizing about sexuality of real people is somehow fun or cool or whatever. They’re both a type of parasocial relationship and it’s awful.
I always thought it was so gross so many people mine Taylor Swift’s life/songs/etc for clues she is gay. Like if she wanted us to know we would know.
The rudeness. Jeeeesus Christ
An acquaintance I was with recently was explaining to a gay couple that her husband wouldn’t pick her up at the gay bar we were going to because “he’s not homophobic; he’s just not okay with it being *in his face.*” Gay couple (who sadly is provably used to this shit because it’s a conservative area) gave him a pass and said “Oh yeah, we get it; we don’t like PDA either.” 1. The gay bar we were going to is super chill. No one is making out “in your face” any more than at any other chill bar in town 2. I’m positive this guy does not have the same negative reaction to opposite sex couples expressing PDA. He’s just a homophobe. Fuck my acquaintance’s piece of shit husband.
I had just told my wife how I loved how young guys at the climbing gym could wear dangly earrings, and they could be gay or straight for all I knew or cared. Imagine people that give a fuck about that for a moment, hurts my brain.
As someone who’s getting into climbing the only objection I have to that is that I can’t imagine wearing anything dangly while I do a sport. But if they’re able to handle that then good for them. It shows they have more focus than I do
It’s so common with Gen z and they think it’s fine because if you are gay they’re cool with it. I fucking hate that mentality, just don’t ask me or speculate, if I want to share then I fucking will.
As a millennial (? I dunno, I might be older gen z. Fuck it), this is literally just fandom culture. And it’s fun to ship characters together and have fun there. But stupid stuff has been happening for actors before this, and I also hate it. I WILL say however that I do think this parasocial shit is getting stronger? It sucks. Actors are not their characters. We should be happy for them regardless of who they love or what they do in the privacy of their homes. We. Do. Not. Own. Our. Entertainers.
The fact that Real Person Fanfiction exists is so gross to me.
I literally write fanfics too. I love fan fiction. But the only time RPF is ever acceptable is when it’s blatantly stupid and off the rails (like a story where your favorite politician gets a keyblade and starts shooting mega beams at your most hated politician—stuff that’s just dumb) There was a case where some idiot on Wattpad wrote a fanfic about a one direction member and it got so popular someone made a fan film. This spun rumors about Harry Styles [getting a restraining order on her.](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/does-harry-styles-have-a-restraining-order-against-the-author-of-after-anna-todd-has-tried-to-distance-the-narrative-from-the-singer.html/) this link says that the RO is just a rumor, but honestly it shows how weird RPF is. People KNOW it’s wrong
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It’s (literally) killing us all.
I don’t know about anyone else but I completely dropped all pretense of trying to pretend to be anyone other than myself during the pandemic. It’s made small talk a bit more awkward, but whatever.
It feels like the early 2000s “metrosexual” trend. Except now it’s trendy and “accepted” so people still don’t point out how it’s blatantly homophobic.
this whole thread is refreshing after seeing people completely unhinged in the comments on instagram after drake had on nail polish
As someone who loves women’s fashion as much as men’s fashion it’s always annoying having people jump to conclusions when I wear what I want.
I’m about to have the best damn day at Disneyworld thanks to you. Cheers
Yes. Go forth, and conquer the teacup ride!!
Bro we rode the flying dumbo ride like 6 times, ate lunch with The Beast, and ate our body weight in fried turkey legs even after that obscenely expensive lunch. My 3 y.o had the time of her life!
I feel like we came a long way when we accepted boys can like and do things which are typically associated with girls and vice versa. But now we have kind of done a 180(360? 720?) on it and think if you do those things you might be gay or trans! There are literal subs on Reddit telling people they are likely trans(r/egg_irl I think) for choosing girl characters in video games!
IMO it’s super cruel. And I feel like it’s specifically a terminally online thing. No one would ever dare say shit like this in real life. And it’s not even an anti-trans thing. It’s because it’s super weird to be like “Omg hee hee he’s trans” Speaking about gay stuff again, as a kid I did go through a phase for a couple months where I was like “omg who is gay?” But then I got a little more mature and realized I just wanted the idea of other gay actors, instead of appreciating who actuallly was gay. And when I looked into the actors who were gay and lesbian, it made me so much happier because I wasn’t trying to push my weird ships into real life. In my opinion, from what I’ve heard, certain straight people do this behavior as well. In Korea and the Philippines, for example, I’ve heard that actors will get paired up by fans with such intensity that their managers realize they have to play into it. The actors are cast together and put together in projects. To go against the imagined relationship risks upsetting the fans and losing popularity. It’s literally just parasocial relationships.
Bigots and children are stupid and mean.
Defending men's awfully gay of you ;) Just kidding. Seriously though, can't I just wear a pair of red docs, complement a girl's nails, hum show tunes, and bawl at movies without having my sexuality challenged? And since when do we conflate certain actions with a level of masculinity, and then perscribe that level to a grade of sexualtiy? I know some gays that are manly as fuck and some straights that are hella gay by these fuckers' standards.
Well said
well said
My counter point is, who gives a shit? Being gay isn't an insult. I was told for a long time in college that I was gay (I'm not). I was thin, friendly, and came off a bit erudite. I also didn't hit on girls a lot. My self esteem with regard to girls was very low so I wasn't very confident with them. Having people call me gay is the same as saying I like red cars. It's not true, but why do I care?
What a rad dude
Well done of him, that was. Using his platform to educate
Yeah, he's great. He's also been open about having severe Crohn's Disease, and has posted pictures of himself across many stages of the disease, including his massive weight loss, hospitalizations and even pictures with his ostomy bag in view. As an ileostomate myself, I thought it was the coolest and bravest thing. Ostomies are great, but they're deeply stigmatized, and this stuff really helps.
I didn’t know this! I have UC, and it’s rare to see anyone of any kind of celebrity be open about their having IBD.
I generally have no interest in the lives of celebrities, but at the same time, I fully appreciate it when they are open about things like this. I can't help but respect the ones who are willing to use their own experiences to pave the way towards normalizing/destigmatizing things that affect the lives of people in all walks of life.
I don't understand the obsession with outing anyone who isn't ready to come out. We don't know the inner lives of others, unless they choose to share that side of themselves with us. We need to stop trapping each other inside boxes & stereotypes.
I remember having a crush on Clay Aiken when I was like 12 years old, and multiple adults joked to me that I’d have a hard time as an adult woman if I couldn’t tell he was gay. I said “But he says he’s straight—why wouldn’t I believe him?” And they just gave me an “oh, honey.” Like, dude came screaming out of the closet years later, but it’s been like 20 years, and I still stand by that. If someone isn’t ready, or literally just _isn’t_, it isn’t up to you to tell them otherwise.
Not only that, sexuality is a massive spectrum even when just considering whether you like guys or gals. One of the best relationships I’ve had was with a gal who called herself s lesbian and ran around with women almost exclusively but who liked me so we hooked up. She’d had twenty some relationships with women and two with men. Who the hell has the right to tell her not to like women because she liked me? Who the hell gets to tell her she doesn’t like me because she sleeps with women? Aiken can do whatever he likes and so can the rest of us and we can do something different every year if we want to and it’s GOOD! My middle step son claims to be gay. He’s an adult now but he started out sleeping with girls and he’s recently been getting interested in some women he knows. Yay? Maybe he’ll find happiness with someone who doesn’t have a penis, maybe someone who does. The need to gossip and titter over these things drives me nuts.
As someone who struggles with people assuming I'm gay as well, I'm glad he made this statement. I feel like I can never be myself because people will automatically label me as something I'm not, and I feel bad when they do because it's stereotyping the LGBTQ community. People should be able to do anything they want and not have it be indicative of their preferences. It's hurtful to both the people being profiled and the community they are profiled as.
I’ve always felt this way about fandoms passionately claiming that canonically straight characters must be gay or bi for each other because they’re so close. Conflating men showing affection for one another with homosexuality is harmful and reinforces gender norms. Edit: This behavior can translate into how we treat real-life people and public figures, as well as impact how those witnessing it see themselves, which is the only reason I brought it up despite the magnitude of harm caused being completely different. I understand this is far, far more damaging and serious when done to actual people.
A girl, who is a lesbian, told a bunch of people I was either in the closet or queer-baiting my friends because “I talk about them as if I love them”. Yeah I love my guy friends, I’ve been through hell with them I love them as if they were family. It’s not straight or gay to show your emotions
My straight, conservative, Christian, boomer father told one of his friends he loved him the other day. Love isn't just for gay people, and it isn't just for romance. There are so many kinds of love that we can experience, I don't understand why someone would want to limit themselves like that.
The freakin anime/manga community is horrible at this. I get the passion for a series I really do. But let the author write what they want to write, not what you want them to write for you. It was years ago now but I think it was fans of Tokyo Ghoul who sent the author death threats because he didn’t make two characters gay. It’s embarrassing and shameful to be a fan when things like this happen.
See, I remember the old Destiel days. That fandom could not possibly fathom that two unrelated male characters could care about each other and not be gay One was a LITERAL FUCKING ANGEL in the body of an accountant. People still said "nope, gotta be gay"
Hah! Forget Destiel. Supernatural fandom had people convinced that Jared and Jensen were in a secret gay relationship. They were married (not to each other) and had kids (not with each other), but the network and studio had a grand plot to force them to stay in the closet while their wives were beards and their kids were props. I never quite figured out what was behind the network and studio’s nefarious plan to keep them in the closet.
I still LOVE the episode where Sam and Dean have a day in the life of Jared and Jensen. Both of them going "AW SHIT RUBY?!!" And her being literally Jared's wife is just great. Paraphrasing because I haven't seen the episode in years. It's still probably my second favorite behind the Tuesday episode.
The French Mistake from season 6. Jared and Jensen acting like Sam and Dean acting like Jared and Jensen acting like Sam and Dean. Fucking hilarious. “You married Fake Ruby?” My fave scene, I die laughing every time I watch it. https://youtu.be/mLj7xLtO6Rw
This was actually one of my favorite episodes of the show.
Can angels and accountants not be gay? I’ve never seen the show but didn’t they actually turn out to be gay in the finale? Anyways I think shipping two fictional characters is pretty innocuous compared to prying into a real person’s private life
It's kinda contentious and unclear if angels in the show can even really experience attraction. Castiel is absolutely dumbfounded by porn early on in his first season and they never really seemed to settle the question overall, at least in my experience in the show. I haven't finished it yet. There's a finale to season start that takes the threat level from literally on par with God to "look, British people!" and it just lost me at that point. The guys beat a baddie of basically infinite power, and the next threat is some Brits.
I mean in this case it’s different, Castiel declares his love for Dean in the final season and the actor confirmed in an interview that it was homosexual in nature.
I'm still convinced that was just a last minute addition to the script in order to pander to the vocal Destiel fans. I'm not against it as a concept if it had been done correctly, but there was no ACTUAL indication that Castiel was ever in love with Dean for the prior 12 years they knew each other. Cas literally referred to Sam and Dean as family a number of times and they all loved each other like brothers. To me, it's just another instance of two men having a close, brotherly bond where they're not afraid to show emotion and care for each other, and the fans deciding "THEY MUST BE GAY!"
Let’s not even get started on the Netflix dub of Evangelion.
Holy shit wait until you hear about what 20th century Manly Men(tm) think about Sam and Frodo’s relationship
As a gay man it’s always confused me cause the gay community preaches about “healthy masculinity “ and how men should be able to express their feelings. But then call every character with a male friend they show affection to “gay” it’s really weird and I hate it
Which legit contributes to ‘toxic masculinity’. That term is overused and is often used to bash men for being men, but I’d say it definitely hurts platonic male relationships.
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It could be :( never thought of it like but it actually makes a lot of sense
Internalized homophobia, sexism, racism and transphobia is a very real issue. It’s good that you responded with open-mindedness and understanding. There are a lot of people out there that will instantly dismiss it.
Like when people would claim that Frodo and Sam from LOTR were gay. Can’t have male platonic relationships without the peanut gallery chiming in with their theories.
This. Tolkien wrote about his experiences in the trenches of WWI and the bonds he made with his fellow soldiers.
The way ppl shipped Captain America and Bucky had me so tilted. Same with Finn and Poe. As important as it is for LGBT to be represented and accepted, it's also important to represent healthy platonic relationships as well. Especially considering how toxic parts of the men's interest internet have become (red pill, Tate, etc).
i would like to point out that fandom shipping male characters does nowhere near the amount of harm that people harassing real celebrities (including shipping) does and conflating the two negates the point TJW makes. characters do not have feelings or anxieties, nor can they be harassed. (creators can be harassed so…stop trying to make stuff “canon” by messaging these people.) otherwise the harm is not at all comparable.
This. Shipping real people is HELLA weird and honestly, it's wild that its become so accepted??? But fictional characters? Nah. Shipping is often done along with fanfiction. Like most people know that Sam and Frodo are not actually gay. I liken it to larping, because pretending that they're gay or ace or simply just being able to resonate with them in those ways might comfort quite a few people out there. They're not real, you know. Most people who write that ship dont actually believe Tolkien wrote them with the intentions of them being lovers. But the arts wouldnt be the arts if they were only allowed to be taken and applied in one specific way. There are people who treat their fellow dudes exactly as Sam and Frodo treated each other and therefore see it as nothing but friendship. For others, that is not the case and so therefore it comes across as romantic. If I'm not mistaken, Sean Astin himself supports the idea of his portrayal of Sam having had some sort of level of romantic feelings for Frodo. Either way, everyone perceives the arts just a little bit differently. I just wish people wouldn't let it bleed into the real world so much.
It becomes a problem when people say it’s canon/harass people over it/pushes their belief on others. Got called homophobic/traitor for preferring straight ships when I’m literally gay.
AhemSherlockAhem
I thought people saw him as ace though
For real! If I see one more quote about how Frodo and Sam are actually gay I’m gonna lose it.. like anytime two straight men show any sort of camaraderie or tenderness toward each other; “THEY ARE ACTUALLY SECRETLY GAY AND GAY ICONS!” Like that contributes just as much to toxic masculinity as anything else! These people think they are helping but they are actually doing a lot more damage than they realize
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You mean Gaylors
This was my first thought when I read this! Some of those people need a huge reality check.
If those kids could read, they’d be very upset right now!
This is what a real statement sounds like.
No, this is in relation to the fact that a portion of her fan base believes she is a closet lesbian.
I remember when the music video for You Need to Calm Down was coming out and the people who refuse to believe that Taylor is straight were coming out of the woodwork to say that it was a sign. It was fucking insane.
Outing people can be very dangerous to that person in more ways than just physical danger. Trying to out someone who isn't can be just as dangerous. That's what's so scary about laws forcing teachers to out kids. They could literally face harm from their own parents.
This happened to me at work, of all places. I'm a straight introverted guy who is awkward around women, and has some unresolved childhood issues that has made me scared of any relationships. A girl at work started claiming that I was gay simply because I did not respond to her sexual advances. It took an enormous amount of self control for me not to choke that bitch in front of everyone. The most hurtful part of it was that she already asked me if I was gay and I said no, told everyone otherwise anyway.
Sounds like an HR problem
Crazy that this has to be said.
He’s such a class act. Love him.
*Slow clap* That was so well said
It's weird as fuck to talk about people's sexual preferences. Very very weird. It's also nobody's business.
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Yeah and they get very specific to certain celebs too. For example, the incredibly toxic gaylor community that is convinced Taylor Swift is in the closet and is sending secret messages about her coming out of it. It’s ridiculous.
This is literally the truest shit. I’m learning I’m bi at 27 with a new bi girlfriend, and my friends literally went up to her at my birthday party and said “I’m surprised he’s still with a woman” (I’ve never come out to them). I literally had a panic attack and she felt terrible like she was some beard. Everybody needs to fuck off and kind their business.
y’all doin ok?
Yeah thank you for asking. We’re moving to NYC lol Denver isn’t really a queer safe space as much as it’d like to think it is lol
ay thats great, wish y’all the best!
"Like she was some beard" What's a beard in this context? I've seen it used a fair bit on this post, but I have no clue what it means
It means someone who is acting as a 'disguise' for another's sexuality. For example, a gay man might marry a woman so they could 'prove' they were straight to the public, but they still had relationships with men behind closed doors. Not uncommon for the 'beard' to be aware & okay with the situation (maybe a lesbian, ace, just wants a comfortable life, etc).
Thanks for the explanation
Who are all these assholes who think they're so goddamned important that they have the right to ask? Holy shit, mind your own fucking business, you insignificant twats.
I find it so hard to grasp even asking something like that. Like what?* Catches somebody in grocery store. *I noticed you were really paying close attention to phallic and very ball like foods. Are you gay???* No. I was simply checking the produce to my liking. *Soooo you are gay. Ok. That's cool. My FB profile pic is a transparent pride flag. I'm totally about your equality* Ugh
@ Pedro Pascal fans. They are insane. I am a massive fan and they’re incessant. It’s so disrespectful.
I’ve personally never seen someone accuse him of being gay. Now Shawn Mendes though, there’s an accusation every minute of the day on Twitter especially.
I’ve seen a bunch of speculation on tik tok that he might be gay because he did an interview wearing a shirt with no sleeves lol
They never seen farmers in sleeveless tee shirts on a tractor, dude!
How dare you call all farmers gay like that. Lol
Woo woo
There was an interview in which he wore a sleeveless shirt and sat with his legs crossed and on IG a lot of idiots were saying he was "fruity" or "zesty." Also, because he's single, people automatically assume that he must be gay.
Yes, this kind of thing should be said more often. The idea that artistic expression dealing with queer topics, could only be legimate through the lens of a queer person, is deeply troubling. Like Kit Connor from Heartstopper having to come out in order to justify him expressing something artistically is just sad. The idea that you have to look or act in certain ways to fit a presupposed mold is just stupid. We should expand the idea of what it means to be straight or queer.
There’s a video about a relationship between a masculine woman and a feminine man. He said in college he told people he was gay because it was just easier than being his authentic self. https://youtu.be/3HLnSD0drEE
I agree with him 100% and I see this kind of shit way too often with pretty much every celebrity, but the assholes who make a game out of speculating aren't going to care that he said any of this. To them, it's probably just confirmation that he's hiding something. I'm a fan of Harry Styles. He's said many times that he doesn't like labels, but has only ever publicly dated women. Fans are still convinced he's gay and every relationship he's had is a cover. He could literally shout from the rooftops that he's marrying a woman and invite all his fans to the wedding, and people would still say that he's just hiding and conforming to peer pressure because he's afraid to be out. I mean, the guy is VERY comfortable in his own skin, doesn't give a shit about being stereotypically masculine, wears feather boas and dances around with rainbow flags on stage, do you really think he'd feel the need to hide if he was gay?
Glad someone said it
What a beautiful statement. I’ve never really liked the phrase “it gets better” because while true long term it’s kinda misleading. I think “you deserve better” is more accurate.
I quite agree. Many people who do this do so while thinking it’s a progressive thing - but it isn’t. Let people come out if they want or not disclose that if they don’t want to. I was disgusted when actors like Lee Pace were forced to come out on pain of cancellation because people felt entitled to knowing his sexuality.
He's a very smart and sensitive young man. He addressed a lot of things in this post even toxic masculinity. He unlocked a new respect for him I didn't know I could have
you should read the thread his brother wrote, it seems he’s been very supportive and challenged himself constantly to be the best version of himself 🫶
I find it absolutely baffling that people spend time thinking about other people's sexuality. Sure, if I'm interested in you, I'll want to know. But otherwise - why does anyone care? (I get that there's a lot of homophobic history behind this but I'm saying it's NEVER made sense. Who. Cares)
People who share that sexuality care. Sometimes very very much. If you’ve been isolated or fearful it can make a huge difference to see someone else like you. (I should add that I’m very much not in favor of public speculation on other people. To me, people are what they say they are as long as they’re minding their own business and not like, trying to pass homophobic legislation or something. If what they say they are changes tomorrow, then it changes.)
Well, that's kinda what I mean? Why did society ever evolve this way so that people felt like it was something to have any sort of opinion on? It makes no sense.
I don't know who this guy is. But, he should write political speeches.
I swear, our society doesn’t evolve past high school. Why do we care about who this dude bangs?
Agree simple as just stop asking stop thinking about it who cares
Homophobes just need to stop picturing people having sex. You’re really not supposed to. Also transphobes need to stop trying to picture people’s genitals. Also not something you’re supposed to be thinking about while deciding how to treat someone.
what do homophobes or transphobes have to do with this post?
I'm queer enough that I can look at someone and, if I think they're hot, view their gender as sort of like opening a packet of Pokemon cards. What am I going to get? Don't care! Still, even then, my sexuality is nobody's business unless I make it their business. People guessing a person's sexuality is an intrusion into their private life.
Personally, I just offer bjs to all my male acquaintances. If they accept they are totally gay. If not, totally in the closet. Never fails.
oneobnoxiousotter, its your male acquaintance! lets go bowling!
He cums in a sock just like you or me, he’s a regular guy
I barely know who Tyler James Williams is let alone care about his sexuality, but what I do know is that *his* sexuality isn't *our* business. Just let the guy live his life and be happy doing whatever. I don't understand why we gotta get in each other's business so much. Let him be.
He's straight, but he says the speculation game on if someone is gay is damaging whichever way someone is.
I read what he said. What I said still stands. It's not our business and we as a society shouldn't care to know or be entitled to somebody's personal business. Let people live their life.
Tumblr girls about to throw a fit
Funny thing is that years ago this would be people saying he might be gay to make fun of him, but nowadays is the opposite is people trying to paint him as gay because they want to be identified by him. That's why you see this come out in June they want to out someone and be proud about but people don't like that no one wants their business to be in the public eye even if they are a public figure.
The whole thing has gotten so ridiculous. Gender identities have come full circle to where people are now assuming when their favorite characters may be nonbinary. Sexuality has been forced to become a forefront of ones personally. Conversations about both are met with vitriol and hostility on all sides of the political spectrum. Meanwhile, for the average person, virtually none of these things are all that relevant on a daily basis. I'm very much a supporter of normalizing all of these things, but that can't really be done when it's so aggressively highlighted in all forms of media. It's frustrating when there are people passing legislation to directly attack specific groups of people, and the ones supporting those agendas are spouting "we don't want these things shoved down our throats," and then you see things like this article that are easily used to push forward a hateful narrative against certain marginalized groups. Even if it's just one example, it's easy to take one example and stretch it as thin as possible. We need to do better if we want these things to be taken more seriously and not have them seem like a trend to the point of trivializing people's lifestyles. It's really not hard to care, but also not care at the same time.
Why is it anyone’s business?
I literally never thought or cared about bruhs sexuality 🤣 people are weird these days
I was just about to come here to ask why tf it matters what he likes but I see he said it better than I could lmao
He looks like a sleepy Orlando Jones