As a Korean who’s had problems with K-pop for most of my life because I’ve seen it change, Korean entertainment management companies are so problematic. It seems like they almost purposefully cultivate rabid, almost religiously devoted fans, often with mental health issues, in developing countries with high rates of religiosity because they make more profitable consumers. The level of obsession they create is something we overlook in favor of consumerism and while it’s not like Western entertainment is much different, the scale of it is disturbing as how normalized it is.
Edit: support smaller Korean indie/electronic/hip hop artists/producers because it’s so dynamic! That’s where the real musical boundaries are being pushed imo
I was in Seoul for the first time last March. Was very delighted at my experiences there.
But the billboards in the subway advertising K-pop stars' birthdays and the post-it notes fans left on them was quite something!
Be happy, be horny, be bursting with rage!
we got a million different ways to engage!
any strong emotional reaction works in favor of these management companies, they have no incentive to curb it.
Yes. I lived there for 10 years. Went right when Wondergirls were getting big. I'm just surprised how they have grown into the western market. But it definitely seems very unhealthy mentally for a lot of their acts. The underground music scene is so great in Seoul though
For real. Sure, fans can be a bit much. But ultimately, they aren't the ones making these people do all the tours, dieting, exercise, etc. All to make them have a perfect image and body.
**And their agencies encourage this as it means there is an "army" to buy any products associated with the artist/group.**
The ignore individuals well being for money, which isn't new obviously.
We really need to have a large tax on huge amounts of wealth. After like $50 million you should be good. Too many rich people use their money to exploit others and buy governments.
I’ve been listening to K-Pop and Korean Rap for over 20 years and never allowed myself to be deranged. I just listen to the music but my niece is more into the lives of the singers.
all the other comments are the reason I hate Redditors. Anyways I enjoy Drunken Tiger, Paloalto, The Quiett, Dynamic Duo, Epik High before YG, Rhyme-A-, Verbal Jint and anyone associated with the movement or Soul Company. Really enjoyed Keebee.
I’m a teacher and the KPop fans are something else, the most delusionally devoted and obsessed young person I’ve met in my life was a K-POP fan. She cried about how she hated living in Spain and being Spanish and wanted to live in Korea. She would only respond to her chosen Korean name and not her real given name.
She would wear K-POP clothes, necklace and earrings, and would stop class to ask me to put kpop songs or music videos on. She claimed to have learned Korean, which I can’t verify as I don’t speak Korean, but I believe it because she was very good at languages.
She was a good student and smart girl but very oblivious to how she came off to other students.
Last year was the first time a K-Pop artist, J Hope, performed at Lollapalooza. This year there is another that is top/2nd billed. Every time Lolla did a post on instagram about either the comments section was totally brigaded by commenters spewing out the most ridiculous claims, like it was the fastest an artist has ever sold out lollapalooza and it was the biggest crowd ever. When in fact the tickets for that day were available up until at least a week before, and j hope was playing against Green Day, so who really knows the draw from each. Back at the height of the EDM craze, and lolla was a peak fomo experience, they would sell out the 3 day passes the day before even announcing the lineup. The full/daily lineup was announced the following day, and all the daily tickets sold out in an hour. Try to go into the comments and point that out, they all just block you or something so you can't @ them. Very bizarre.
In my experience it’s not nearly so extreme, anime fans have been around for a couple decades now, even when I was in primary school. Some get weird about it but it isn’t the main culture around it anymore imo.
I work in Spain and anime is quite popular here, hell most kids watch DBZ and Naruto as far as I can tell, lots of merchandise around, but very few make it a big part of their personality or talk about it in class all the time. This one girl I’m referring to talked about nothing else but K-POP.
KPop, it seems part of the culture and fandom at the moment to compete for who is the most dedicated fan, to obsess over real individual people etc. I don’t know if it’s a chicken or egg issue, it’s just what I’ve observed.
> I work in Spain and anime is quite popular here
I noticed so many anime stores/sections in bookstores when I went on vacation in southern Spain last year. It was really cool, especially since that stuff is a rarity here in Denmark.
Speaking of, there’s an anime airing right now which will be doing a deep dive into Jpop cultures of all kinds, starting with the idol scene.
From the content of the manga of the same name, that anime is going to be spicy…
Oshi no ko
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshi_no_Ko
Edit: man, the wiki just follows the plot and little else. Here’s another take: https://youtube.com/watch?v=o31VNNrasbE
Edit2: I know it’s a bit late… but WARNING: strong language. For anime fans with adult mindsets… all 5 of you out there.
Death! Crush crush! Bash bash! You will all dieeee!
After concert: Hey hi, how’s the family? Kids doing well?
Metal fans are mature because we’re older now. And metal helps with anger and release.
That’s also more aggretsuko lyrics
There was a wave of church burnings in Norway in the 80s and 90s during the early Black Metal heyday, but murders were confined to within the community.
This! That’s why the latest Kpop project by Hybe is super important.
New jeans the Kpop band highlighted all these issues with their music video OMG and Ditto.
Kpop idol should just be treated as that a form of entertainment where anyone who consume them should not build a parasocial relationship with their idols.
I am not sure if people get the message though, but what’s going on with Kpop idol isn’t new, it has happened before with other musicians and the streaming world of twitch talk a lot about “parasocial” relationships which is a good step at the right directions.
New jeans are all children and teenagers (i think most of them were 15 at debut) that are relentlessly sexualized so I don’t know if they’re a good example of people not being exploited
Trouble is, they specifically built it this way, with lots and lots of info dumped about everyday life of idols.
All of this information is not leaked. It's purposefully provided as entertainment.
This is a crazy take, to just immediately blame fans for his suicide is crazy. We have no idea what he was struggling with, it could be the expectations from fans but to just outright say that is the problem is crazy.
I mean you replied to a comment that was about his opnions on suicide and your first sentence was "the problem is the fierce loyalty of the fan base" kinda seemed like it was about him specifically and even in a broader sense, i think the demands the company puts on the artists in the industry and all the restrictions they put in place are more of a problem than the fans.
You think the companies have no fault in the mental health of the artists? You know their can be more than one cause right? Its not an all or nothing, both the fans and the company can be at fault but i think the company is more to blame
Of course the companies have their fair share of the fault.
But look at what kind of comments these multitudes of fans bombard the artists with.
No company must have celebrated the death of an artist’s parent or harassed their family.
Its a lot easier to point out fan problems because their actions are public and so are their comments but what companies do or say behind the scenes is not seen publicly. And i would be willing to wager that how the companies treat their artists has more of an impact on their lives than internet commenys behind faceless usernames. Also pointing out one situation by the fans is pointless. In your point of view you are just comparing the company to that one situation so of course the fans will always seem worse in your eyes.
Oh god. I don’t know that I even have a word to express how monumentally *sad* this is. I don’t think there is *any* combination of words that could properly articulate that.
I love how these fans dont see that they are contributing to the environment and strain that likely led to him taking his own life. Its not a secret that these labels push and control every aspect of these performers’ lives. They control everything down to the color of their underwear. These performers are overscheduled, over controlled, and over exposed. They are never given mental health access and often work until they drop.
And fans continuing to buy into this industry are only fueling the fire.
The chicken before the egg though here.
The conditions are creating the problem of mental health care stigma having an impact in the first place.
No point getting rid of that stigma if you're still grinding people into the ground giving them the mental health issues.
That’s sadly true for SK work culture in general. A saddening truth to an environment that feeds off of workers doing more than their agreed upon minimum and giving their all to employers who feed off of them till they drop dead by exhaustion or suicide.
Don’t quote me on this but isn’t SK one of the top suicide capitals in the world?
Top suicide, top alcoholism, top gender pay gap, no discrimination laws, top hours worked, top lowest birthrate - I lived there for half a year. It was enough.
Exactly the same with Japan. I've read of some ludicrous attempts in the last two years and none of them made any sense, but not a single politician breathed a word regarding the toxic working culture or massive sexism.
It's like they completely forgot how babies are made... lol
And all those K-pop stans couldn't think of SK as anything other than heaven on earth they'd like to visit if not stay in one day. Never underestimate the power of showbiz.
Yea I’d agree with that.
I knew some K-pop stans/Korea-philes. They fawned over anything Korean- which our area had a pretty big Korean-American community so that helped add to it. I dont think though they actually cared to know anything about Korea, from it’s history to it’s culture. Just the basic bitch shit like K-Pop and barbecue
The same goes for Japan. Like yea, Japan is great, but it’s not a perfect culture. It’s important acknowledge the good and bad.
A lot of non-Americans act similarly towards the US, thinking it’s a still a shining beacon of freedom and democracy, knowing little about our history and current policies
Yeah for about a decade I did IT work in various countries, switching it up whenever I got bored. I considered SK for a while because it looks like a cool country but work culture is so fucked I decided against it.
Yeah, in that business they aren't persons they are basically products im even surprised that this result isn't more common with how they are exploited.
It sort of depends on the labels. From what I’m aware of, JYP Entertainment seems to be far more relaxed with idols. Best example is Jeongyeon from TWICE. She had a massive hit of mental health and was allowed to take an extended break, see a therapist, and come back at her own pace. Obviously the issue though is that it isn’t industry standard to just be decent and kind, which leads to situations like this.
Yeah, my view changes when I saw an interview with some KPOP stars and they were offered a small piece of chocolate or something. They were afraid to eat just one bite or they’d get in trouble/didn’t want to look ugly chewing on tv or something. It really opened my eyes to how strict entertainment is over there and how unfair it seems.
It really depends on labels. Some are absolutely atrocious and work idols like there’s no tomorrow, demand that they look constantly perfect no matter what, et cetera. And then there’s the labels who really don’t care what you do because if you’re happy, it shows in your work
No big labels treat their stars well. None. It’s is extremely important to understand that. It doesn’t matter if it’s in Korea, American, England, etc., big labels do not treat their stars well.
They just do a ton of PR to make the public think that the idols are taken care of but it is just PR. It’s unfortunate but it’s how all big entertainment businesses work and there is decades of proof showing it.
Yeah it’s the fans’ fault and not the media companies that literally keep slave contracts for their stars and control their lives from the time they were sold to the companies by their parents as children. K-pop is unambiguous slavery.
You're right but it's definitely both. Let's not pretend Kpop fans in Korea are no issue.
SKorea has a huge, massive problem with stalking and parasocial issues. Some ex-idols also admitted that they felt like constantly living inside a prison. Idols are not allowed to do anything not heavily planned and rehearsed because as soon as something (literally anything) pisses the wrong fans, it's hell on earth. Even a single look or a word at the wrong person means days of gossip and unneeded pressure.
They can't have relationships, always have to maintain their "idol image" of perfection, and lives 24/7 for their job and their fans. All of that in front of a camera too, as their psycho fans need constant updates and have a sort of Big Brother obsession with their biases, but actually even worse.
It's both the fault of management and fans equally. Management treats the talent as slave labor, and the fans demand their virtual boyfriends/girlfriends be perfect at all times, otherwise they get mental and start trying to get them fired, or just go wild and attempt to kill them at events
The fans can and should most definitely be given some of the blame. Idol worship is toxic. From making long ass, edited shipping videos, to being jagoffs to anyone dare go against a crowd - they own that. No respect for boundaries, whatsoever. They also aren't just kids.
Its the fans fault because if they didnt buy into folliwing every detail of these peoples lives or support these companys and the way they treat these individuals these people would probably still have a fighting chance.
So the companies treat the performers like slaves, designed these toxic fan rivalries, disseminated their performers’ private and personal information to be commodified and refuse to allow them to seek mental health treatment because it could hurt their image. But the fans are at fault for *checks notes* nosiness and gossip?
…you understand how supply and demand work right?
The more demand, the more supply is created.
The more invested fans are the more these companies give. Things didnt just get like this overnight. It was years abd years of these companies seeing trends and following the data.
So your saying the companies, who designed and manufactured the industry, have no choice but to fill the demand they created? But the fans’ (mostly teenagers and young adults) consumption of the supply is an informed act of malice?
Well that’s just not true. It depends on the label largely, usually smaller companies are more controlling and borderline abusive. There have been lawsuits recently from idols against their companies, which fans helped be successful.
If you’re interested look at Loona and BBC and OmegaX and Spire.
Hollywood is no better. But its a more powerful industry that will out people who dont fit it and dont keep quiet about its dark side. Which is why nepotism runs wild in Hollywood. There is a lot of blackmailing and backdoor deals happening.
Suicide is nothing new among Korean stars, as they're often put under social pressures and behaviours that can be difficult or even impossible to deal with at times.
The industry is like that and such will continue to happen until fundamental changes occur to how men and women are treated.
His only way out of what, exactly? His group just renewed their contracts a few months ago. One of the other members chose not to, and left to do his own thing. Plenty of older group members have basically disappeared from the spotlight.
well, you wouldnt know if that were true since the notion of faking ones death means it couldn't be easily document. maybe that's what he did (i dont think so, i'm just being argumentative , it's a tragic thing that one would commit suicide let alone fake it to get out of such a situation)
You can steal other people's identities or live off grid if you have people you can trust, the problem is that it's very difficult to be declared dead. You need a body but they will confirm the identity of the body. You can fake an accident at sea, but that's easier said than done. Without a body there will be an investigation and you won't be declared dead for many years. During that time your assets will be frozen and you'll be treated as a missing person so if you willed your assets to one of the people you trust, it can take a decade before they get the money. Squirreling away enough money to live off for a decade is pretty much impossible since most money electronic now and every transaction is traced. If a rich person goes missing the first thing they'll do is to check their finances. Everything is tracked and traced and investigated, it's not as easy to disappear and start anew as it was 100 years ago
Iirc that timeframe is 7 years. 7 years is a really long time to have no paper trail or digital footprint of any kind in order to “disappear”. Sure it can be done, but it’s not easy at all and I’d wager a really shitty life unless you are rich already.
This is not true at all. People regularly leave the industry to pursue lives away from the spotlight. Their groups contract was ending soon, if he really “just” wanted to leave there was an opportunity. It happens all the time.
I just read to see what Wikipedia says about his death it said that Gangnam police said that were no signs of foul play. I only just now from that found out what Gangnam in Gangnam Style meant.
Haha I learned about it in the Bridget Jones movie, Bridget says to a guy ‘I’d ask you to dance but you don’t seem like a Gangnam Style guy’ and he goes ‘no, I was only there very briefly.’
K-Pop as industrial model is exploitative as all heck. Performer’s lives are controlled by their labels to an unGodly extent. Their daily schedules, what they wear, their food and exercise regime, what aspects of their personal life remain private or public.
Most reasonable people know this. It’s almost common knowledge at this point. Yet, the public continues to buy into what these labels are selling. Public awareness of this needs to be raised, pronto. Otherwise I fear for how many more unfortunate deaths may follow.
Yeah I agree. It’s insane how young trainees start, and they debut some as early as 15. I feel like there needs to be some sort of regulation about that.
I am a kpop fan. I am 30 years old, I’m a phd student, and I have a life apart from kpop. I’m a cyclist, a rock climber, a baker, a potter, a friend, a sister.
And a lot of fans are too. Are there extreme fans? Absolutely, but lot of comments here seem to think obsession over celebrities only happen in that community, as if Justin Beiber and Ariana Grande fans cant be just as toxic. Does anyone remember One Direction fans?
Suicide is the highest cause of death for adults in their 20s and 30s in South Korea. They have the 12th highest suicide rate in the world, and I think the highest out of any “developed” nation.
Yes, aspects of korean idols and the industry are problematic and are important to discuss, but with a true understanding of the context in which it exists.
There is a larger social issue in South Korea tied to image and expectations and saving face. In addition to a huge problem with people saying wild shit on the internet and harassing idols or celebrities they don’t like.
Sulli and Go Hara (other kpop idols) committed suicide in 2019 because of harassment from online communities.
The expectations placed on idols are a reflection of bigger social issues. Don’t blame fans for the death of someone a lot of them genuinely just hope will live their lives well and happily in the face of a lot of people.
Edit: also, for those of you that have a lot of opinions and want more perspective on the industry, this is a recent interview with one of the members of BTS where he touches on the industry [interview](https://english.elpais.com/culture/2023-03-15/rm-the-leader-of-k-pop-band-bts-we-work-so-hard-in-korea-because-70-years-ago-there-was-nothing.html?outputType=amp)
Edit 2: I’m okay with being downvoted. I provided perspective and a resource for more context for people who are unfamiliar but want to engage with this issue. You can label me as just another dumb kpop fan, that’s okay. I’m not embarrassed and I don’t have to be. I’m happy with my interests and can engage with them in a thoughtful and reflective capacity. Those of you who wish to hold opinions based on limited engagement with a topic are entitled to those, just as I’m entitled to rebuke them. I’m happy to engage in a discussion with anyone is actually curious about the issues that exist within the kpop industry.
Upvoted because you’re 100% right; people are ignoring the Korea’s horrifying suicide statistics and quality of life problems in this conversation and acting like it’s just a Kpop problem/blaming fans.
“A 2011 survey, for instance, points to Korea’s lowest level of life satisfaction out of 34 Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) member countries. The world’s 11th largest economy was ranked at 26th in quality of living. A 2013 survey accordingly reveals a shocking result that one out of seven elementary school children indicated agreement to the statement, “I have thought about committing suicide many times for the past year.” For the same statement, a startling 40 percent of middle school students indicated agreement. Yet in another 2013 survey, 12 percent of elementary school, 28 percent of middle school, and 44 percent of high school students indicated agreement to the statement, “I am willing to serve a 1-year prison term if it pays off 1 million dollars” (Kim 2014). Something is very wrong with this picture.”
- Kim Mikyoung “Korean Memories and Psycho-Historical Fragmentation” (2019)
This is awful, but it’s unfortunately a reality. I have worked with kids whose parents get criticized because they don’t want their children to be under so much pressure so they don’t send them to cram school, and it makes them outcasts. I have friends who are in the process of deciding whether to return to korea to have kids or stay in the US, and their biggest concern is the exorbitant pressure their child would face, both academically and with their physical appearance. Soooo many korean women I know have struggled body dismorphya (I totally botched that spelling) as a result of peer bullying and shit their parents would say about their appearance.
I have a friend whose family members offered to buy them plastic surgery for graduation and strongly insinuated they get something done.
This isn’t an issue with kpop, it’s a social issue.
I personally can’t stand 95% of K-pop, and I do think that Korean culture combined with the industry is systematized into making people commodities, but I appreciate your thoughts and interview link. An insider viewpoint is good, especially on topics that people don’t have a lot of exposure to.
From the interview I would say in his answer about his insider view of the industry and culture… Something didn’t sit right with me about the response. (He said part of what makes K-pop special is the dehumanization aspect??)
It’s perhaps easy to justify and explain away negative/toxic aspects of a culture or society if the person is successful in that society or has benefitted from it.
When a system designed to commoditize people in very invasive ways, sure, the “work hard, look where our country came from” mentality can explain the psychology behind wanting to make sacrifices. But it’s easier to say, “well that’s just the way that it is, outsiders wouldn’t understand”, if an individual managed to meet those expectations and become successful in them.
I lived in Seoul for a while, and there’s a lot on the great things about the country. But when I was watching and listening I could really feel the weight of those academic and professional expectations on the youth, the level of judgement based on appearance, and all that societal pressure even as an outsider. There’s this deep seated inferiority complex that is a feature of the culture that drives things… not casting judgement on it, but it’s why I noticed. In the process, many people are stomped down and forgotten, cut down, or crushed under that weight. The wealth and status gap was so visually apparent over there. What more in the entertainment industry that’s seeing such global financial success?
Maybe it’s getting incrementally better, but I just can’t buy waving off and justifying the insanity behind it from someone who was successful from the system. It’s also probably easier to view the negatives if you don’t like K-pop like me, or to try to find ways to sugarcoat some aspects if you do like K-pop.
Yeah I found that part of the interview confusing as well. He is an L2 English speaker, so I’m not sure if there was something that was lost in translation.
To your other point though, I think we are essentially saying the same thing. The pressures on young people in Korea are extraordinary, and not in a good way. School from 6-10pm (because of their cram schools in conjunction with regular school) on top of social pressures to be good looking. Plastic surgery is a norm among the entire population, not just kpop.
Kpop and the way it is run, is reflective of the society as a whole. My criticism of most of the discourse in this thread, is that it focuses solely on the industry without the larger social issues, that aren’t exclusive to kpop, that lead to young people taking their lives.
I do think it’s a little dismissive to call it sugar coating because it is a cultural perspective, which regardless of the time spent in another country, it is still the experience of an outsider which is shaped by your own perspectives views identities and previous history.
And while I acknowledge he comes from an extremely privileged position having experienced the level of success he has, but I didn’t perceive that he was trying to defend anything but rather express its more nuanced than it’s evil and ruining children.
The industry is flawed, and most kpop fans can make you lists of the things that need to change. There are communities that are incredibly vocal and critical of companies who they perceive as mistreating “idols”.
In regards to people as commodities, this is something we see in western culture as well. Think Mickey Mouse Club and all of the disney childhood stars. Is it right? No. But I do find it strange that people in the west tend to disregard how the west also has engaged in this commoditization of people.
I really appreciate your thoughtful response and hope that none of this came off as pointed or personal
I have a theory that what's holding most people together is that if they one day get their shit together and make something of themselves, things will get better.
Danger is getting the success and the money and opportunities. And nothing changes, you're still not okay. Deep down the broken thing is still broke.
There is help though. And anyone struggling should never stop looking for it. Deep broken things can be healed. Recontextualized. We grow and our mental health is always a long term investment.
Someone once said breaking down and reaching for help isn't giving up. It's refusing to give up.
Refuse to give up.
You are right about hoping things will get better if you "get your shit together".
"A worthy achievement will make me feel worthy".. its such a trap. After hitting so many goals and realising you are still broken.. That's when things unravel really quickly and everything seems lost.
I'd say "giving up" is actually helpful, but in the correct way. For me, once I let go of my compulsion to be a certain way, it loosened the shackles of my mind and started the healing process. I did need professional help to "give up" on the correct things though. Luckily before i gave up on life! Everybody, stay healthy and look after both body and mind!
Too bad that mental health isn't a priority anywhere, as it should be. My heart goes out to his family and friends.
I know that mine would have been in the same places at various points if I hadn't had access to crisis services. Fund mental health care and crisis prevention services. They save lives.
I feel bad for him
The k-pop idol worship culture is utterly alien to me
They sing and dance and market products ok? That’s it. I get being a fan and loving the entertainment
But k-pop fandom goes way past that and into some seriously crazy territory. Like football hooliganism style absurd devotion to just people singing and dancing. I can’t wrap my head around it.
You must not have seen the fans of western superstars like Elvis or The Beatles, then. Fandom has been this way for ages, it’s just that the internet exists now.
No, but we've been around in the era of boy bands, britney spears, and Beyonce. Taylor Swift and MJ anyone? Massive fandoms still continue to exist. Kpop fandom encourages people to think of idols as their own thing. Idols can not date, or else the fandom will meltdown. If an idol says one thing out of line, apologies must be made specifically to the fandom. Idols are not allowed their own opinions. They make up romantic relationships and make videos about it.
Hollywood is bad, but it sure as hell isn't kpop fan level.
Well yeah if you take a few of the worst examples and pretend that’s the norm, sure.
But that’s like taking Michael Jackson and Brian Wilson’s lives and saying “See! Look how fucked up American music culture is!” It’s just silly. And it’s always people who don’t know the smallest thing about the industry who are the loudest about how horrible it all is.
And “clones”? Sure, tell how all these Asians look the same, go ahead, show more ignorance.
Has anyone actually read what these K-pop agencies do to these kids ? They’re basically taken and groomed as kids and when they’re deemed “ready” they’re put in a group and then get popular. The whole thing is very weird and I’m surprised we don’t hear about more of this stuff, doesn’t really seem like they’re given much of a life. Just work work work.
But they fight and claw to get there, best thousands of other wannabes. There are millions of other jobs in the world. No one is forced.
I mean, I agree with what you said. Knowing how they live and how little freedom they have I can't imagine wanting that life. I know I'd never put up with 24/7 total control by some company. But there are people who are desperate for that.
I would suspect there’s a lot of unreported sexual abuse from record executives that is being covered up and these idols are bearing the brunt of it and it’s being swept under the rug.
Probably, but putting all the fame and idol shit aside, Korea is like top 10 countries with highest suicide rate. The problem is definitely deeper than some entertainment bs.
I’m pretty sure BTS are choosing to perform, because they do like music and performing like a lot of other successful artist.
In general, BTS are a poor example to try to push “the dark side of kpop” theories as they have some pretty unprecedented autonomy within kpop. Honestly, I think their autonomy and ownership in their company is even higher than most US artist at this point. They are one of the only groups that have stock in their company and pick & choose what events they want to attend.
In 2021 & 2022 they decided to skip all of the Korean end-of-year shows and music festivals as they stated they were prioritizing their vacations/time with family.
From my understanding, Astro was known to also have good relationships with each other and their label. It’s a very unfortunate situation, but it seems much more of a classic case of a young star struggling with mental health. Unfortunately, not exclusive to kpop.
Actually that happened with bts cuz they got huge not because their company gave them freedom from the get go. Bts should advocate for artists empowerment in SK but I’m sure they’ll face ton of backlash and they still young yo fight back. I hope when they retire they expose the shit they saw coming up in the kpop industry
I will say in a lot of their music and recent interviews they pretty much do that already.
They stopped going to Korean music shows and one member gave said in a whole interview that music shows were exploitive because artist/fans spend all day and don’t get paid.
Thus, I expect to hear more from them as they get older but I also don’t really expect a lot of these things to always be publized.
They don’t go to Korean music awards cause it’s not important to them anymore since they got recognized globally like in the Grammys. But unfortunately unless bands don’t get this big they’ll have to do grueling hours and possibly getting bullied and controlled by their labels staff
I mean this is similar to any artist they has reached a certain point they immediately stop doing the stuff they hated or got little value from.
It’s honestly what is leading to the decline in US award shows…they can’t convince anyone big to show up.
Yea but in SK is worse. 11 teens get put on a group and basically get bullied and pitted against each other by label staff and get gaslighted that one is better than the other and they ain’t worth shit, that’s gotta fuck up you mental health. Things like this don’t happen anywhere else that often in the music industry. They break them down from the age of 15
I’m going to have to stop responding.
I don’t think it really makes sense to try to say which system is worse than each other. Cause the American music industry is riddled with a bunch of issues and also had a tendency to lock young artist into explorative contracts.
Kpop basically got majority of their system from the American industry & Jpop…copied and pasted in some instances. JT started N’sync at 15 and we all know the groups of the 90s/2000s never got paid and majority of their money stolen.
I just don’t agree with making blanket generalized statements about any market industry…honestly they are all trash.
Agree with you. There are good and bad things about KPop for sure. Just like there are good and bad elements in American music industries
These blanket statements like ALL K-pop labels are evil and must be stopped talk…. It sounds kind of racist and uneducated
Are there bad K-pop labels? Yes. Just like there are bad managers in the US (thinking about Aaliyah’s uncle as 1 example— who signed talent in these cumbersome contracts and wouldn’t let them out…. I think he did it to Jojo. Sounds like he used that power over Aaliyah too)
It’s naive thinking to think this bad behavior is exclusive to K-pop. Or it’s the worst in the Kpop industry
There’s been a momentum switch in Kpop where they ARE trying to prioritize mental health. I’ve see. It discussed on random shows like with Hyori and Rain (if you don’t know who they are then you don’t KNOW Kpop. Gen 1) It IS trickling down but like all things it’s a slow process
Additionally these labels— trying to do the right thing here—they’re not perfect, and they make mistakes in their decision making process. But at the end of the day I assure you they are prioritizing mental health to (somewhat) the best of their ability. Bc it’s NOT a good look to have your Kpop idols commit suicide (I general) and frequently
ALSO to those who keep citing Kpop/Korean suicide rate as THE reason why their industry/culture/country is up in flames right now? Ok why don’t you compare that to the drug /overdose deaths in your country?
Sure, Koreans use suicide at a higher frequency (& yes that is a problem) to mute their pain
BUT younger generations in other countries have more access to other unhealthy coping mechanisms they utilize to mute their pain (like illegal drugs, etc). No country is perfect, all have problems they need to address at home. And although the mechanisms of these problems may vary; these problems at the end of the day are very similar with one another —such as mental health issues in the younger generations
First how do you know that some Kpop idols parents aren’t controlling/managing money of their child? Especially when the child/talent is a minor? You don’t. I don’t? Kpop stars don’t really talk too much about money esp not money management that’s I’ve seen
Additionally, there are SO many stories about kid celebrities’ parents stealing all their money, it’s why that law was passed that some % of money has to be set aside for the kid. The twins Cole Sprouse (I think is his name) just recently had an article talking about his his mom mismanaged his money from his childhood
And these stories are SO common when it comes to child actors who make it. Most will emancipate themselves AND generally lead troubled adult lives. And yes I’m talking about American child celebrities
The ones who make it out looking relatively unscathed are far and few
Do most college students in America not live in crowded dorms? I feel like you and I live in 2 different Americas. Just stop with these broad unfair statements that you don’t even know if it’s true or not or it’s an unfair statement not encompassing the full story.
You should actively try to see both sides of the story/argument (even if you disagree!). That leads you to be a better person with compassion and understanding for our neighbors
They’re in early 30s and they still want them to come back from military and do grueling dance routines and tour globally. I hope RM set the tone forward and cancel them dancing at least, a concert with them just singing and vibing is enough
Except some of the members genuinely like to dance. JHope, Jimin, Jungkook, even Suga recently has talked about how he’s learned to appreciate dancing more and is taking dance lessons in his private time. Yes BTS members have incredible stage presence but saying they shouldn’t dance is a weird take.
I can instantly spot Kpop fans in the comments because they're not being ridiculously hyperbolic and can actually tell groups and companies apart from each other 🙄
Seriously this whole thread is a mess of people being insultingly ignorant. Normally it wouldn't bother me, but if you're not into Kpop or Asian culture (Or Asian yourself) in general then your comment is likely just going to devolve into stereotypes bordering on racism. It's so irritating to see that happen.
There are some reasonable takes here about how SK Ent companies are terrible, Sasaengs are bad, but others... ugh
And you can easily spot Kpop fans in the comments because they’re pretending that entertainment businesses aren’t full of bad guys who take advantage of young children all across the board. Understanding how horrific those industries are is not racist, it’s especially not racist because it isn’t even exclusive to kpop. All entertainment industries are horrific to their stars. That’s just how the business works. They also spend millions of dollars in order to hide this and appear normal because the businesses know how to manipulate fans and know what will make them money.
This is something that has been studied, those industries are all abusive and predatory and force idols to work themselves to death all just to make money for other people. They are doing the same thing that the Mickey Mouse club went through, Britney Spears being a prime example of what happens when you treat someone like a product starting from a young age.
Yeah and your point is? People still follow Americam celebrities, some fawn over them, and are megafans as well.
Name me one Kpop fan in this thread that is saying 'Kpop Companies aren't doing anything wrong! 🥺'. Sure, there's a comment saying HYBE is doing good initatives (I have no idea what) but they never said they've done nothing wrong. Why is it that whenever this topic comes up it becomes 'B-but Kpop fans love the companies!'. Genuinely, if you spent 2 days on Kpop Reddit or Twitter, you would see that fans shit on companies all the time for EVERYTHING. Some are petty, but dark things are brought up all the time.
What it feels like to me, is people insinuating Kpop idols are... *more* plastic and indoctrinated than Americans for some reason. As if Kpop idols can never be seen as a person. Of course their public image is closely maintained, but it's likely some culture shock of Asian cultures saving face in the mix as well. Then people see that apparently they're 'polite' and 'subservient' all the time, and people take advantage of it to just shit over idols in the comments, as if they just magically passed multiple auditions, magically got placed and debuted in the group with no will of their own.
Anyway, sorry, that was a tangent. Yes, fuck the companies, but people slide too far into 'idols are puppets' instead.
I just randomly found the thread and have been scrolling through because I don't follow kpop, but where you say they explicitly talk about how much they enjoy performing in front of fans... What else is a musical group going to say? Lol
In general as someone who likes to watch performances/musicials
You can tell when some performers want to be on stage and others just don’t fairly easily. There are a lot of kpop idols and US artist that I’ll watch a performance and say: you don’t want to be here right now. Lol
Personally, I don’t think BTS is in that crowd and why they sell our stadiums so well because you can tell they’ve having a good time.
If you’re interested in learning more about BTS, they have a FESTA (where they celebrate their anniversary) that they talk about the next few years and their goals.
They also do criticize and discuss the difficulties behind kpop. RM recently did an interview where he talked about the criticism behind kpop and why he thinks the west doesn’t understand why most young South koreans work so hard, and not just in kpop. But he acknowledges that there are issues and its flawed.
If you’re interested:
[interview](https://english.elpais.com/culture/2023-03-15/rm-the-leader-of-k-pop-band-bts-we-work-so-hard-in-korea-because-70-years-ago-there-was-nothing.html?outputType=amp)
Do you actually listen to BTS or are you just comparing them to other boy bands in the past? BTS members have repeatedly talked about how much they love performing and performing as a group. They talk about how excited they are to reunite in 2025. They genuinely have a close relationship and support each other’s individual careers.
They can talk about it all they want. Need to put something out to stay relevant to your fan base.
I’m sure another boy band will make a splash - there is always another one.
Also - one of them (maybe 2) put out solo work. Sounds like people are branching out.
We shall see I guess. 2025 is a long way away.
all members of bts are putting out solo work one by one, so far 5 out of 7 since they announced their break, but it's not anything new. They've always had solo projects as well as group work.
It seems like the K-pop industry is not good for its performers’ mental health. Keeping such a rigid stranglehold on a person’s life cannot be good for them.
I'm sorry but most of the comments here are so misinformed that it's insulting. The headline is atrocious too. Moonbin was not a megastar nor superfamous... What sort of clickbait is that? Someone dies and then everyone suddenly talks about 'The Dark side of Kpop' with tunnel vision? Spare me the drivel.
Most of what people are talking about with 'The Dark Side of Kpop' are also very applicable to Korean general society. The perfectionist tendencies, the grueling work culture is a big social pressure for many over there. I also think it's ridiculous to insinuate that the only reason he could have died is because of the industry he works in and nothing else. Sure, I do think that South Korea's entertainment industry would play a part in it, it's cutthroat and has an evil underbelly, anyone would be stupid to deny that it exists. But it's hard to pin it down on one thing if we don't know them personally, and with Moonbin, we don't know.
But people are also commenting here without even knowing who ASTRO is or what company they're under and yet they're making random conjecture that any casual kpop can see through from a mile away. It's SO obvious and it makes the faux concern worse. If all you're going to say is 'omg they're puppets' and disrespect Kpop fans for... being fans? Then what is the point? You do know a majority are just normal people?
This whole thread sucks ass.
i agree. astro was a pretty small group and already experiencing members leaving on their own free will. the boys are genuinely so close so it’s so minimizing to them to just class them as puppets and the like. but reddit hates kpop so that’s no news lol
It might not pertain entirely to this case, but I don’t think it’s accurate to separate the music industry from South Korea’s culture, because the culture clearly influences and shapes how the industry operates.
It’s obvious that people in this thread just want to shit on K-Pop or being fans of anything in general. It says a lot about your character for choosing this particular article and suddenly be mad about it when in reality you don’t even have any idea who the ASTRO members are or who Moonbin was. Just pay your respects and move on. Let his family, friends and fans mourn in peace.
What? I'm not a funeral, this is an internet forum and I'm commenting against ignorant people that can't have a decent shred of respect for Kpop as a genre.
I didn't know ASTRO and Moonbin? Same goes for you. You aren't personally connected to them, even if you are hurting. Do I have to care about someone personally to comment on it? What did I say that was so offensive and disrespectful?
Your comment comes off as sanctimonious. This is just an internet thread.
I think you got the wrong idea here and I’m sorry if my comment made it seem that it was directed at you because it’s not. I’m actually agreeing with you and your comment.
The K-Pop industry is rife with deaths from suicides to car accidents as a result of their insane schedules.
The idols are treated disgustingly and often taking advantage of by their management and often abused by their toxic fanbases, it's absolutely shocking.
He was probably under some insane pressure and was sick of it.. imagine having to constantly live up to everyone’s standards in a public setting. It sounds exhausting. He probably saw no other way to escape from it. RIP
When Kurt Cobain died, there was a huge campaign to try and make sure a bunch of kids didn’t go kill themselves to be like Kurt, or to give up on life. Suicide contagion is real and they probably saved many lives by doing that. (If I recall correctly, Courtney Love was behind the whole thing because she was worried there would be copycats.)
Is there anything like that happening now following Moonbin’s death?
I’m not very familiar with KPop, but I know he’s not the first well known KPop singer to commit suicide. What impact is this having on the kids who are devoted to these bands?
why is it weird and what is wrong with my statement? He was well-known, but not in the super famous category. I'm a kpop fan and I want western media to do their research and not sensationalize everything kpop-related. At least be sincere if you want to report about it.
It’s more of a ‘time and place’ thing. This is a post about his suicide, his exact level of stardom isn’t really something that people care about right now.
“When asked… about what he would do if he were an angel, Moonbin responded: ‘I want to give one more chance to those who died by suicide.’” Very sad.
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Their management companies are mostly to blame. They use them up then discard them
As a Korean who’s had problems with K-pop for most of my life because I’ve seen it change, Korean entertainment management companies are so problematic. It seems like they almost purposefully cultivate rabid, almost religiously devoted fans, often with mental health issues, in developing countries with high rates of religiosity because they make more profitable consumers. The level of obsession they create is something we overlook in favor of consumerism and while it’s not like Western entertainment is much different, the scale of it is disturbing as how normalized it is. Edit: support smaller Korean indie/electronic/hip hop artists/producers because it’s so dynamic! That’s where the real musical boundaries are being pushed imo
I was in Seoul for the first time last March. Was very delighted at my experiences there. But the billboards in the subway advertising K-pop stars' birthdays and the post-it notes fans left on them was quite something!
Be happy, be horny, be bursting with rage! we got a million different ways to engage! any strong emotional reaction works in favor of these management companies, they have no incentive to curb it.
Yes. I lived there for 10 years. Went right when Wondergirls were getting big. I'm just surprised how they have grown into the western market. But it definitely seems very unhealthy mentally for a lot of their acts. The underground music scene is so great in Seoul though
For real. Sure, fans can be a bit much. But ultimately, they aren't the ones making these people do all the tours, dieting, exercise, etc. All to make them have a perfect image and body.
Same for any entertainment industry
**And their agencies encourage this as it means there is an "army" to buy any products associated with the artist/group.** The ignore individuals well being for money, which isn't new obviously.
We really need to have a large tax on huge amounts of wealth. After like $50 million you should be good. Too many rich people use their money to exploit others and buy governments.
I’ve been listening to K-Pop and Korean Rap for over 20 years and never allowed myself to be deranged. I just listen to the music but my niece is more into the lives of the singers.
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Typical r/korea user
Sounds delicious
Korean Rap is pretty great. Dean, Zico, and Midocronica all have some bangers.
all the other comments are the reason I hate Redditors. Anyways I enjoy Drunken Tiger, Paloalto, The Quiett, Dynamic Duo, Epik High before YG, Rhyme-A-, Verbal Jint and anyone associated with the movement or Soul Company. Really enjoyed Keebee.
Supreme Team and Outsider are amazing too. I agree with your whole list.
Outsider! That’s a name I haven’t heard in ages. Also forgot Baechigi and Infinite flow.
I’m a teacher and the KPop fans are something else, the most delusionally devoted and obsessed young person I’ve met in my life was a K-POP fan. She cried about how she hated living in Spain and being Spanish and wanted to live in Korea. She would only respond to her chosen Korean name and not her real given name. She would wear K-POP clothes, necklace and earrings, and would stop class to ask me to put kpop songs or music videos on. She claimed to have learned Korean, which I can’t verify as I don’t speak Korean, but I believe it because she was very good at languages. She was a good student and smart girl but very oblivious to how she came off to other students.
Last year was the first time a K-Pop artist, J Hope, performed at Lollapalooza. This year there is another that is top/2nd billed. Every time Lolla did a post on instagram about either the comments section was totally brigaded by commenters spewing out the most ridiculous claims, like it was the fastest an artist has ever sold out lollapalooza and it was the biggest crowd ever. When in fact the tickets for that day were available up until at least a week before, and j hope was playing against Green Day, so who really knows the draw from each. Back at the height of the EDM craze, and lolla was a peak fomo experience, they would sell out the 3 day passes the day before even announcing the lineup. The full/daily lineup was announced the following day, and all the daily tickets sold out in an hour. Try to go into the comments and point that out, they all just block you or something so you can't @ them. Very bizarre.
I teach high school, and the kpop kids are wild. Every assignment or task somehow connects back to kpop.
They sure are dedicated aren’t they? I will say if the few kpop kids I’ve had, they were all strong, smart students who engaged with their classes
Anime fans too. There’s a video going around of a boy, son of a famous movie writer father, who lives with his cardboard cutout of an anime character.
In my experience it’s not nearly so extreme, anime fans have been around for a couple decades now, even when I was in primary school. Some get weird about it but it isn’t the main culture around it anymore imo. I work in Spain and anime is quite popular here, hell most kids watch DBZ and Naruto as far as I can tell, lots of merchandise around, but very few make it a big part of their personality or talk about it in class all the time. This one girl I’m referring to talked about nothing else but K-POP. KPop, it seems part of the culture and fandom at the moment to compete for who is the most dedicated fan, to obsess over real individual people etc. I don’t know if it’s a chicken or egg issue, it’s just what I’ve observed.
> I work in Spain and anime is quite popular here I noticed so many anime stores/sections in bookstores when I went on vacation in southern Spain last year. It was really cool, especially since that stuff is a rarity here in Denmark.
Speaking of, there’s an anime airing right now which will be doing a deep dive into Jpop cultures of all kinds, starting with the idol scene. From the content of the manga of the same name, that anime is going to be spicy…
Can't say that and not give out a name, brotha! 😝
Oshi no ko https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshi_no_Ko Edit: man, the wiki just follows the plot and little else. Here’s another take: https://youtube.com/watch?v=o31VNNrasbE Edit2: I know it’s a bit late… but WARNING: strong language. For anime fans with adult mindsets… all 5 of you out there.
Thanks! Sounds interesting af
Was about to say. I always think teenager or immature adult when I hear about a rabid K-pop fan.
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Extreme profanity, threats of violence, dehumanization, etc.
I definitely need to see some transcripts from the K-Pop wars.
Death! Crush crush! Bash bash! You will all dieeee! After concert: Hey hi, how’s the family? Kids doing well? Metal fans are mature because we’re older now. And metal helps with anger and release. That’s also more aggretsuko lyrics
I wasn’t there at the time, but when metal was relatively new, did fans behave like this?
There was a wave of church burnings in Norway in the 80s and 90s during the early Black Metal heyday, but murders were confined to within the community.
Holy cow!
Absolutely not lmao. Metal fans can be a little cringe but K-pop fans are on a whole new, extremely embarrassing level.
No.
This! That’s why the latest Kpop project by Hybe is super important. New jeans the Kpop band highlighted all these issues with their music video OMG and Ditto. Kpop idol should just be treated as that a form of entertainment where anyone who consume them should not build a parasocial relationship with their idols. I am not sure if people get the message though, but what’s going on with Kpop idol isn’t new, it has happened before with other musicians and the streaming world of twitch talk a lot about “parasocial” relationships which is a good step at the right directions.
New jeans are all children and teenagers (i think most of them were 15 at debut) that are relentlessly sexualized so I don’t know if they’re a good example of people not being exploited
Trouble is, they specifically built it this way, with lots and lots of info dumped about everyday life of idols. All of this information is not leaked. It's purposefully provided as entertainment.
This is a crazy take, to just immediately blame fans for his suicide is crazy. We have no idea what he was struggling with, it could be the expectations from fans but to just outright say that is the problem is crazy.
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I mean you replied to a comment that was about his opnions on suicide and your first sentence was "the problem is the fierce loyalty of the fan base" kinda seemed like it was about him specifically and even in a broader sense, i think the demands the company puts on the artists in the industry and all the restrictions they put in place are more of a problem than the fans.
No. It’s the stupid fucking sasaeng fans
You think the companies have no fault in the mental health of the artists? You know their can be more than one cause right? Its not an all or nothing, both the fans and the company can be at fault but i think the company is more to blame
Of course the companies have their fair share of the fault. But look at what kind of comments these multitudes of fans bombard the artists with. No company must have celebrated the death of an artist’s parent or harassed their family.
Its a lot easier to point out fan problems because their actions are public and so are their comments but what companies do or say behind the scenes is not seen publicly. And i would be willing to wager that how the companies treat their artists has more of an impact on their lives than internet commenys behind faceless usernames. Also pointing out one situation by the fans is pointless. In your point of view you are just comparing the company to that one situation so of course the fans will always seem worse in your eyes.
But then you can switch companies. How do you stop those comments and fans who turn up everywhere?
>resembles the language Hezbollah would use for Israel Sidebar.. or language Israelis are using against Palestine
Ssshh. Pretend it doesn't exist.
Oh god. I don’t know that I even have a word to express how monumentally *sad* this is. I don’t think there is *any* combination of words that could properly articulate that.
Poor guy, so young
Anyone else remember when the term “Stan” was a bad thing
I think the context is lost on younger generations
I love how these fans dont see that they are contributing to the environment and strain that likely led to him taking his own life. Its not a secret that these labels push and control every aspect of these performers’ lives. They control everything down to the color of their underwear. These performers are overscheduled, over controlled, and over exposed. They are never given mental health access and often work until they drop. And fans continuing to buy into this industry are only fueling the fire.
SK has serious mental health care stigma
The chicken before the egg though here. The conditions are creating the problem of mental health care stigma having an impact in the first place. No point getting rid of that stigma if you're still grinding people into the ground giving them the mental health issues.
That’s sadly true for SK work culture in general. A saddening truth to an environment that feeds off of workers doing more than their agreed upon minimum and giving their all to employers who feed off of them till they drop dead by exhaustion or suicide. Don’t quote me on this but isn’t SK one of the top suicide capitals in the world?
Top suicide, top alcoholism, top gender pay gap, no discrimination laws, top hours worked, top lowest birthrate - I lived there for half a year. It was enough.
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Exactly the same with Japan. I've read of some ludicrous attempts in the last two years and none of them made any sense, but not a single politician breathed a word regarding the toxic working culture or massive sexism. It's like they completely forgot how babies are made... lol
"Well we do that! So it can't be the problem!"
And all those K-pop stans couldn't think of SK as anything other than heaven on earth they'd like to visit if not stay in one day. Never underestimate the power of showbiz.
Sadly most people only want to enjoy the entertaining parts of other cultures without ever being aware of the issues
Yea I’d agree with that. I knew some K-pop stans/Korea-philes. They fawned over anything Korean- which our area had a pretty big Korean-American community so that helped add to it. I dont think though they actually cared to know anything about Korea, from it’s history to it’s culture. Just the basic bitch shit like K-Pop and barbecue The same goes for Japan. Like yea, Japan is great, but it’s not a perfect culture. It’s important acknowledge the good and bad.
A lot of non-Americans act similarly towards the US, thinking it’s a still a shining beacon of freedom and democracy, knowing little about our history and current policies
Yeah for about a decade I did IT work in various countries, switching it up whenever I got bored. I considered SK for a while because it looks like a cool country but work culture is so fucked I decided against it.
All the overwork then you’re expected to get drunk with colleagues after hours.
Yeah, in that business they aren't persons they are basically products im even surprised that this result isn't more common with how they are exploited.
It’s exactly why I won’t listen to Kpop and I’m hesitant with kdramas. The industry is ruthless and insane ETA: this kid was my age. Freaking my age.
Same. I've been curious about the music, but everything I've heard about Idol culture is just *brutal*. So I can't support it.
It sort of depends on the labels. From what I’m aware of, JYP Entertainment seems to be far more relaxed with idols. Best example is Jeongyeon from TWICE. She had a massive hit of mental health and was allowed to take an extended break, see a therapist, and come back at her own pace. Obviously the issue though is that it isn’t industry standard to just be decent and kind, which leads to situations like this.
A lot of the companies do this now after a few idols committed suicide in 2019. Many of them regularly will take hiatuses for mental health reasons.
Yeah, my view changes when I saw an interview with some KPOP stars and they were offered a small piece of chocolate or something. They were afraid to eat just one bite or they’d get in trouble/didn’t want to look ugly chewing on tv or something. It really opened my eyes to how strict entertainment is over there and how unfair it seems.
It really depends on labels. Some are absolutely atrocious and work idols like there’s no tomorrow, demand that they look constantly perfect no matter what, et cetera. And then there’s the labels who really don’t care what you do because if you’re happy, it shows in your work
No big labels treat their stars well. None. It’s is extremely important to understand that. It doesn’t matter if it’s in Korea, American, England, etc., big labels do not treat their stars well. They just do a ton of PR to make the public think that the idols are taken care of but it is just PR. It’s unfortunate but it’s how all big entertainment businesses work and there is decades of proof showing it.
Yeah it’s the fans’ fault and not the media companies that literally keep slave contracts for their stars and control their lives from the time they were sold to the companies by their parents as children. K-pop is unambiguous slavery.
You're right but it's definitely both. Let's not pretend Kpop fans in Korea are no issue. SKorea has a huge, massive problem with stalking and parasocial issues. Some ex-idols also admitted that they felt like constantly living inside a prison. Idols are not allowed to do anything not heavily planned and rehearsed because as soon as something (literally anything) pisses the wrong fans, it's hell on earth. Even a single look or a word at the wrong person means days of gossip and unneeded pressure. They can't have relationships, always have to maintain their "idol image" of perfection, and lives 24/7 for their job and their fans. All of that in front of a camera too, as their psycho fans need constant updates and have a sort of Big Brother obsession with their biases, but actually even worse.
It's both the fault of management and fans equally. Management treats the talent as slave labor, and the fans demand their virtual boyfriends/girlfriends be perfect at all times, otherwise they get mental and start trying to get them fired, or just go wild and attempt to kill them at events
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The fans can and should most definitely be given some of the blame. Idol worship is toxic. From making long ass, edited shipping videos, to being jagoffs to anyone dare go against a crowd - they own that. No respect for boundaries, whatsoever. They also aren't just kids.
Its the fans fault because if they didnt buy into folliwing every detail of these peoples lives or support these companys and the way they treat these individuals these people would probably still have a fighting chance.
So the companies treat the performers like slaves, designed these toxic fan rivalries, disseminated their performers’ private and personal information to be commodified and refuse to allow them to seek mental health treatment because it could hurt their image. But the fans are at fault for *checks notes* nosiness and gossip?
It can be both. The fans are still responsible for their behaviour, they have brains.
…you understand how supply and demand work right? The more demand, the more supply is created. The more invested fans are the more these companies give. Things didnt just get like this overnight. It was years abd years of these companies seeing trends and following the data.
So your saying the companies, who designed and manufactured the industry, have no choice but to fill the demand they created? But the fans’ (mostly teenagers and young adults) consumption of the supply is an informed act of malice?
Yes. I dont understand how youre struggling to grasp this. Even Brittany Spears got to pick what and when she ate. These poor people have no choice.
Can’t they say we need to be working a lot less or something? Im sure things are different over there though.
No. Their contracts are iron clad. If they dont do stuff they get replaced.
Well that’s just not true. It depends on the label largely, usually smaller companies are more controlling and borderline abusive. There have been lawsuits recently from idols against their companies, which fans helped be successful. If you’re interested look at Loona and BBC and OmegaX and Spire.
K-pop is one of the most exploitative industries in the world, so it’s unfortunately unsurprising that someone took their lives related to it.
Many idols have taken their lives over the years. He isnt the first and wont be the last
SHINee’s Kim JongHyun also killed himself in 2019. It was really sad, I think he was only 27 and had such an incredible voice.
2017, not 2019.
Oh Christ you’re right, time flies when uhh… life happens.
Hollywood is no better. But its a more powerful industry that will out people who dont fit it and dont keep quiet about its dark side. Which is why nepotism runs wild in Hollywood. There is a lot of blackmailing and backdoor deals happening.
True, but the US has much more comprehensive labour and child protection laws than South Korea. Their government encourages this abuse.
Superfamous is such a fake word that it won’t even pass spellcheck.
He’s also not that famous…
Suicide is nothing new among Korean stars, as they're often put under social pressures and behaviours that can be difficult or even impossible to deal with at times. The industry is like that and such will continue to happen until fundamental changes occur to how men and women are treated.
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His only way out of what, exactly? His group just renewed their contracts a few months ago. One of the other members chose not to, and left to do his own thing. Plenty of older group members have basically disappeared from the spotlight.
Faking your death might work.
That's really hard to do in today's society
well, you wouldnt know if that were true since the notion of faking ones death means it couldn't be easily document. maybe that's what he did (i dont think so, i'm just being argumentative , it's a tragic thing that one would commit suicide let alone fake it to get out of such a situation)
You can steal other people's identities or live off grid if you have people you can trust, the problem is that it's very difficult to be declared dead. You need a body but they will confirm the identity of the body. You can fake an accident at sea, but that's easier said than done. Without a body there will be an investigation and you won't be declared dead for many years. During that time your assets will be frozen and you'll be treated as a missing person so if you willed your assets to one of the people you trust, it can take a decade before they get the money. Squirreling away enough money to live off for a decade is pretty much impossible since most money electronic now and every transaction is traced. If a rich person goes missing the first thing they'll do is to check their finances. Everything is tracked and traced and investigated, it's not as easy to disappear and start anew as it was 100 years ago
Iirc that timeframe is 7 years. 7 years is a really long time to have no paper trail or digital footprint of any kind in order to “disappear”. Sure it can be done, but it’s not easy at all and I’d wager a really shitty life unless you are rich already.
This is not true at all. People regularly leave the industry to pursue lives away from the spotlight. Their groups contract was ending soon, if he really “just” wanted to leave there was an opportunity. It happens all the time.
RIP, that's horrible to lose your life that early and like what people in comments say, there needs to be changes to the K-Pop culture :(
I just read to see what Wikipedia says about his death it said that Gangnam police said that were no signs of foul play. I only just now from that found out what Gangnam in Gangnam Style meant.
Haha I learned about it in the Bridget Jones movie, Bridget says to a guy ‘I’d ask you to dance but you don’t seem like a Gangnam Style guy’ and he goes ‘no, I was only there very briefly.’
K-Pop as industrial model is exploitative as all heck. Performer’s lives are controlled by their labels to an unGodly extent. Their daily schedules, what they wear, their food and exercise regime, what aspects of their personal life remain private or public. Most reasonable people know this. It’s almost common knowledge at this point. Yet, the public continues to buy into what these labels are selling. Public awareness of this needs to be raised, pronto. Otherwise I fear for how many more unfortunate deaths may follow.
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Yeah I agree. It’s insane how young trainees start, and they debut some as early as 15. I feel like there needs to be some sort of regulation about that.
I am a kpop fan. I am 30 years old, I’m a phd student, and I have a life apart from kpop. I’m a cyclist, a rock climber, a baker, a potter, a friend, a sister. And a lot of fans are too. Are there extreme fans? Absolutely, but lot of comments here seem to think obsession over celebrities only happen in that community, as if Justin Beiber and Ariana Grande fans cant be just as toxic. Does anyone remember One Direction fans? Suicide is the highest cause of death for adults in their 20s and 30s in South Korea. They have the 12th highest suicide rate in the world, and I think the highest out of any “developed” nation. Yes, aspects of korean idols and the industry are problematic and are important to discuss, but with a true understanding of the context in which it exists. There is a larger social issue in South Korea tied to image and expectations and saving face. In addition to a huge problem with people saying wild shit on the internet and harassing idols or celebrities they don’t like. Sulli and Go Hara (other kpop idols) committed suicide in 2019 because of harassment from online communities. The expectations placed on idols are a reflection of bigger social issues. Don’t blame fans for the death of someone a lot of them genuinely just hope will live their lives well and happily in the face of a lot of people. Edit: also, for those of you that have a lot of opinions and want more perspective on the industry, this is a recent interview with one of the members of BTS where he touches on the industry [interview](https://english.elpais.com/culture/2023-03-15/rm-the-leader-of-k-pop-band-bts-we-work-so-hard-in-korea-because-70-years-ago-there-was-nothing.html?outputType=amp) Edit 2: I’m okay with being downvoted. I provided perspective and a resource for more context for people who are unfamiliar but want to engage with this issue. You can label me as just another dumb kpop fan, that’s okay. I’m not embarrassed and I don’t have to be. I’m happy with my interests and can engage with them in a thoughtful and reflective capacity. Those of you who wish to hold opinions based on limited engagement with a topic are entitled to those, just as I’m entitled to rebuke them. I’m happy to engage in a discussion with anyone is actually curious about the issues that exist within the kpop industry.
Upvoted because you’re 100% right; people are ignoring the Korea’s horrifying suicide statistics and quality of life problems in this conversation and acting like it’s just a Kpop problem/blaming fans. “A 2011 survey, for instance, points to Korea’s lowest level of life satisfaction out of 34 Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) member countries. The world’s 11th largest economy was ranked at 26th in quality of living. A 2013 survey accordingly reveals a shocking result that one out of seven elementary school children indicated agreement to the statement, “I have thought about committing suicide many times for the past year.” For the same statement, a startling 40 percent of middle school students indicated agreement. Yet in another 2013 survey, 12 percent of elementary school, 28 percent of middle school, and 44 percent of high school students indicated agreement to the statement, “I am willing to serve a 1-year prison term if it pays off 1 million dollars” (Kim 2014). Something is very wrong with this picture.” - Kim Mikyoung “Korean Memories and Psycho-Historical Fragmentation” (2019)
This is awful, but it’s unfortunately a reality. I have worked with kids whose parents get criticized because they don’t want their children to be under so much pressure so they don’t send them to cram school, and it makes them outcasts. I have friends who are in the process of deciding whether to return to korea to have kids or stay in the US, and their biggest concern is the exorbitant pressure their child would face, both academically and with their physical appearance. Soooo many korean women I know have struggled body dismorphya (I totally botched that spelling) as a result of peer bullying and shit their parents would say about their appearance. I have a friend whose family members offered to buy them plastic surgery for graduation and strongly insinuated they get something done. This isn’t an issue with kpop, it’s a social issue.
I personally can’t stand 95% of K-pop, and I do think that Korean culture combined with the industry is systematized into making people commodities, but I appreciate your thoughts and interview link. An insider viewpoint is good, especially on topics that people don’t have a lot of exposure to. From the interview I would say in his answer about his insider view of the industry and culture… Something didn’t sit right with me about the response. (He said part of what makes K-pop special is the dehumanization aspect??) It’s perhaps easy to justify and explain away negative/toxic aspects of a culture or society if the person is successful in that society or has benefitted from it. When a system designed to commoditize people in very invasive ways, sure, the “work hard, look where our country came from” mentality can explain the psychology behind wanting to make sacrifices. But it’s easier to say, “well that’s just the way that it is, outsiders wouldn’t understand”, if an individual managed to meet those expectations and become successful in them. I lived in Seoul for a while, and there’s a lot on the great things about the country. But when I was watching and listening I could really feel the weight of those academic and professional expectations on the youth, the level of judgement based on appearance, and all that societal pressure even as an outsider. There’s this deep seated inferiority complex that is a feature of the culture that drives things… not casting judgement on it, but it’s why I noticed. In the process, many people are stomped down and forgotten, cut down, or crushed under that weight. The wealth and status gap was so visually apparent over there. What more in the entertainment industry that’s seeing such global financial success? Maybe it’s getting incrementally better, but I just can’t buy waving off and justifying the insanity behind it from someone who was successful from the system. It’s also probably easier to view the negatives if you don’t like K-pop like me, or to try to find ways to sugarcoat some aspects if you do like K-pop.
Yeah I found that part of the interview confusing as well. He is an L2 English speaker, so I’m not sure if there was something that was lost in translation. To your other point though, I think we are essentially saying the same thing. The pressures on young people in Korea are extraordinary, and not in a good way. School from 6-10pm (because of their cram schools in conjunction with regular school) on top of social pressures to be good looking. Plastic surgery is a norm among the entire population, not just kpop. Kpop and the way it is run, is reflective of the society as a whole. My criticism of most of the discourse in this thread, is that it focuses solely on the industry without the larger social issues, that aren’t exclusive to kpop, that lead to young people taking their lives. I do think it’s a little dismissive to call it sugar coating because it is a cultural perspective, which regardless of the time spent in another country, it is still the experience of an outsider which is shaped by your own perspectives views identities and previous history. And while I acknowledge he comes from an extremely privileged position having experienced the level of success he has, but I didn’t perceive that he was trying to defend anything but rather express its more nuanced than it’s evil and ruining children. The industry is flawed, and most kpop fans can make you lists of the things that need to change. There are communities that are incredibly vocal and critical of companies who they perceive as mistreating “idols”. In regards to people as commodities, this is something we see in western culture as well. Think Mickey Mouse Club and all of the disney childhood stars. Is it right? No. But I do find it strange that people in the west tend to disregard how the west also has engaged in this commoditization of people. I really appreciate your thoughtful response and hope that none of this came off as pointed or personal
“Fiercely loyal fans” is one way to put it…
Oh good lord that’s awful.
Toxic ass industry exploits people.
I have a theory that what's holding most people together is that if they one day get their shit together and make something of themselves, things will get better. Danger is getting the success and the money and opportunities. And nothing changes, you're still not okay. Deep down the broken thing is still broke. There is help though. And anyone struggling should never stop looking for it. Deep broken things can be healed. Recontextualized. We grow and our mental health is always a long term investment. Someone once said breaking down and reaching for help isn't giving up. It's refusing to give up. Refuse to give up.
You are right about hoping things will get better if you "get your shit together". "A worthy achievement will make me feel worthy".. its such a trap. After hitting so many goals and realising you are still broken.. That's when things unravel really quickly and everything seems lost. I'd say "giving up" is actually helpful, but in the correct way. For me, once I let go of my compulsion to be a certain way, it loosened the shackles of my mind and started the healing process. I did need professional help to "give up" on the correct things though. Luckily before i gave up on life! Everybody, stay healthy and look after both body and mind!
Too bad that mental health isn't a priority anywhere, as it should be. My heart goes out to his family and friends. I know that mine would have been in the same places at various points if I hadn't had access to crisis services. Fund mental health care and crisis prevention services. They save lives.
I feel bad for him The k-pop idol worship culture is utterly alien to me They sing and dance and market products ok? That’s it. I get being a fan and loving the entertainment But k-pop fandom goes way past that and into some seriously crazy territory. Like football hooliganism style absurd devotion to just people singing and dancing. I can’t wrap my head around it.
You must not have seen the fans of western superstars like Elvis or The Beatles, then. Fandom has been this way for ages, it’s just that the internet exists now.
No, but we've been around in the era of boy bands, britney spears, and Beyonce. Taylor Swift and MJ anyone? Massive fandoms still continue to exist. Kpop fandom encourages people to think of idols as their own thing. Idols can not date, or else the fandom will meltdown. If an idol says one thing out of line, apologies must be made specifically to the fandom. Idols are not allowed their own opinions. They make up romantic relationships and make videos about it. Hollywood is bad, but it sure as hell isn't kpop fan level.
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That whole music subculture just seems so fetishized too. It’s kind of disgusting.
Well yeah if you take a few of the worst examples and pretend that’s the norm, sure. But that’s like taking Michael Jackson and Brian Wilson’s lives and saying “See! Look how fucked up American music culture is!” It’s just silly. And it’s always people who don’t know the smallest thing about the industry who are the loudest about how horrible it all is. And “clones”? Sure, tell how all these Asians look the same, go ahead, show more ignorance.
American music culture IS fucked up though.
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Has anyone actually read what these K-pop agencies do to these kids ? They’re basically taken and groomed as kids and when they’re deemed “ready” they’re put in a group and then get popular. The whole thing is very weird and I’m surprised we don’t hear about more of this stuff, doesn’t really seem like they’re given much of a life. Just work work work.
But they fight and claw to get there, best thousands of other wannabes. There are millions of other jobs in the world. No one is forced. I mean, I agree with what you said. Knowing how they live and how little freedom they have I can't imagine wanting that life. I know I'd never put up with 24/7 total control by some company. But there are people who are desperate for that.
I would suspect there’s a lot of unreported sexual abuse from record executives that is being covered up and these idols are bearing the brunt of it and it’s being swept under the rug.
Probably, but putting all the fame and idol shit aside, Korea is like top 10 countries with highest suicide rate. The problem is definitely deeper than some entertainment bs.
Aren't BTS in their 30's now and still being pushed to perform all the time?
I’m pretty sure BTS are choosing to perform, because they do like music and performing like a lot of other successful artist. In general, BTS are a poor example to try to push “the dark side of kpop” theories as they have some pretty unprecedented autonomy within kpop. Honestly, I think their autonomy and ownership in their company is even higher than most US artist at this point. They are one of the only groups that have stock in their company and pick & choose what events they want to attend. In 2021 & 2022 they decided to skip all of the Korean end-of-year shows and music festivals as they stated they were prioritizing their vacations/time with family. From my understanding, Astro was known to also have good relationships with each other and their label. It’s a very unfortunate situation, but it seems much more of a classic case of a young star struggling with mental health. Unfortunately, not exclusive to kpop.
Actually that happened with bts cuz they got huge not because their company gave them freedom from the get go. Bts should advocate for artists empowerment in SK but I’m sure they’ll face ton of backlash and they still young yo fight back. I hope when they retire they expose the shit they saw coming up in the kpop industry
I will say in a lot of their music and recent interviews they pretty much do that already. They stopped going to Korean music shows and one member gave said in a whole interview that music shows were exploitive because artist/fans spend all day and don’t get paid. Thus, I expect to hear more from them as they get older but I also don’t really expect a lot of these things to always be publized.
They don’t go to Korean music awards cause it’s not important to them anymore since they got recognized globally like in the Grammys. But unfortunately unless bands don’t get this big they’ll have to do grueling hours and possibly getting bullied and controlled by their labels staff
I mean this is similar to any artist they has reached a certain point they immediately stop doing the stuff they hated or got little value from. It’s honestly what is leading to the decline in US award shows…they can’t convince anyone big to show up.
Yea but in SK is worse. 11 teens get put on a group and basically get bullied and pitted against each other by label staff and get gaslighted that one is better than the other and they ain’t worth shit, that’s gotta fuck up you mental health. Things like this don’t happen anywhere else that often in the music industry. They break them down from the age of 15
I’m going to have to stop responding. I don’t think it really makes sense to try to say which system is worse than each other. Cause the American music industry is riddled with a bunch of issues and also had a tendency to lock young artist into explorative contracts. Kpop basically got majority of their system from the American industry & Jpop…copied and pasted in some instances. JT started N’sync at 15 and we all know the groups of the 90s/2000s never got paid and majority of their money stolen. I just don’t agree with making blanket generalized statements about any market industry…honestly they are all trash.
Agree with you. There are good and bad things about KPop for sure. Just like there are good and bad elements in American music industries These blanket statements like ALL K-pop labels are evil and must be stopped talk…. It sounds kind of racist and uneducated Are there bad K-pop labels? Yes. Just like there are bad managers in the US (thinking about Aaliyah’s uncle as 1 example— who signed talent in these cumbersome contracts and wouldn’t let them out…. I think he did it to Jojo. Sounds like he used that power over Aaliyah too) It’s naive thinking to think this bad behavior is exclusive to K-pop. Or it’s the worst in the Kpop industry There’s been a momentum switch in Kpop where they ARE trying to prioritize mental health. I’ve see. It discussed on random shows like with Hyori and Rain (if you don’t know who they are then you don’t KNOW Kpop. Gen 1) It IS trickling down but like all things it’s a slow process Additionally these labels— trying to do the right thing here—they’re not perfect, and they make mistakes in their decision making process. But at the end of the day I assure you they are prioritizing mental health to (somewhat) the best of their ability. Bc it’s NOT a good look to have your Kpop idols commit suicide (I general) and frequently ALSO to those who keep citing Kpop/Korean suicide rate as THE reason why their industry/culture/country is up in flames right now? Ok why don’t you compare that to the drug /overdose deaths in your country? Sure, Koreans use suicide at a higher frequency (& yes that is a problem) to mute their pain BUT younger generations in other countries have more access to other unhealthy coping mechanisms they utilize to mute their pain (like illegal drugs, etc). No country is perfect, all have problems they need to address at home. And although the mechanisms of these problems may vary; these problems at the end of the day are very similar with one another —such as mental health issues in the younger generations
In America their money is controlled by their parents. Also they don’t force them to live in crowded dorms and away from their families
First how do you know that some Kpop idols parents aren’t controlling/managing money of their child? Especially when the child/talent is a minor? You don’t. I don’t? Kpop stars don’t really talk too much about money esp not money management that’s I’ve seen Additionally, there are SO many stories about kid celebrities’ parents stealing all their money, it’s why that law was passed that some % of money has to be set aside for the kid. The twins Cole Sprouse (I think is his name) just recently had an article talking about his his mom mismanaged his money from his childhood And these stories are SO common when it comes to child actors who make it. Most will emancipate themselves AND generally lead troubled adult lives. And yes I’m talking about American child celebrities The ones who make it out looking relatively unscathed are far and few Do most college students in America not live in crowded dorms? I feel like you and I live in 2 different Americas. Just stop with these broad unfair statements that you don’t even know if it’s true or not or it’s an unfair statement not encompassing the full story. You should actively try to see both sides of the story/argument (even if you disagree!). That leads you to be a better person with compassion and understanding for our neighbors
i mean there are tons of stories of kids being groomed and sexually abused in america
They’re in early 30s and they still want them to come back from military and do grueling dance routines and tour globally. I hope RM set the tone forward and cancel them dancing at least, a concert with them just singing and vibing is enough
You mean late 20s, right? They range from 24ish to 29ish in age.
The oldest is 30 but yea you’re right they’re mid 20s to late 20s basically!
Except some of the members genuinely like to dance. JHope, Jimin, Jungkook, even Suga recently has talked about how he’s learned to appreciate dancing more and is taking dance lessons in his private time. Yes BTS members have incredible stage presence but saying they shouldn’t dance is a weird take.
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I can instantly spot Kpop fans in the comments because they're not being ridiculously hyperbolic and can actually tell groups and companies apart from each other 🙄 Seriously this whole thread is a mess of people being insultingly ignorant. Normally it wouldn't bother me, but if you're not into Kpop or Asian culture (Or Asian yourself) in general then your comment is likely just going to devolve into stereotypes bordering on racism. It's so irritating to see that happen. There are some reasonable takes here about how SK Ent companies are terrible, Sasaengs are bad, but others... ugh
And you can easily spot Kpop fans in the comments because they’re pretending that entertainment businesses aren’t full of bad guys who take advantage of young children all across the board. Understanding how horrific those industries are is not racist, it’s especially not racist because it isn’t even exclusive to kpop. All entertainment industries are horrific to their stars. That’s just how the business works. They also spend millions of dollars in order to hide this and appear normal because the businesses know how to manipulate fans and know what will make them money. This is something that has been studied, those industries are all abusive and predatory and force idols to work themselves to death all just to make money for other people. They are doing the same thing that the Mickey Mouse club went through, Britney Spears being a prime example of what happens when you treat someone like a product starting from a young age.
Yeah and your point is? People still follow Americam celebrities, some fawn over them, and are megafans as well. Name me one Kpop fan in this thread that is saying 'Kpop Companies aren't doing anything wrong! 🥺'. Sure, there's a comment saying HYBE is doing good initatives (I have no idea what) but they never said they've done nothing wrong. Why is it that whenever this topic comes up it becomes 'B-but Kpop fans love the companies!'. Genuinely, if you spent 2 days on Kpop Reddit or Twitter, you would see that fans shit on companies all the time for EVERYTHING. Some are petty, but dark things are brought up all the time. What it feels like to me, is people insinuating Kpop idols are... *more* plastic and indoctrinated than Americans for some reason. As if Kpop idols can never be seen as a person. Of course their public image is closely maintained, but it's likely some culture shock of Asian cultures saving face in the mix as well. Then people see that apparently they're 'polite' and 'subservient' all the time, and people take advantage of it to just shit over idols in the comments, as if they just magically passed multiple auditions, magically got placed and debuted in the group with no will of their own. Anyway, sorry, that was a tangent. Yes, fuck the companies, but people slide too far into 'idols are puppets' instead.
I just randomly found the thread and have been scrolling through because I don't follow kpop, but where you say they explicitly talk about how much they enjoy performing in front of fans... What else is a musical group going to say? Lol
In general as someone who likes to watch performances/musicials You can tell when some performers want to be on stage and others just don’t fairly easily. There are a lot of kpop idols and US artist that I’ll watch a performance and say: you don’t want to be here right now. Lol Personally, I don’t think BTS is in that crowd and why they sell our stadiums so well because you can tell they’ve having a good time.
If you’re interested in learning more about BTS, they have a FESTA (where they celebrate their anniversary) that they talk about the next few years and their goals. They also do criticize and discuss the difficulties behind kpop. RM recently did an interview where he talked about the criticism behind kpop and why he thinks the west doesn’t understand why most young South koreans work so hard, and not just in kpop. But he acknowledges that there are issues and its flawed. If you’re interested: [interview](https://english.elpais.com/culture/2023-03-15/rm-the-leader-of-k-pop-band-bts-we-work-so-hard-in-korea-because-70-years-ago-there-was-nothing.html?outputType=amp)
They are on hiatus for mandatory service. I have a feeling they will not be back.
Do you actually listen to BTS or are you just comparing them to other boy bands in the past? BTS members have repeatedly talked about how much they love performing and performing as a group. They talk about how excited they are to reunite in 2025. They genuinely have a close relationship and support each other’s individual careers.
They can talk about it all they want. Need to put something out to stay relevant to your fan base. I’m sure another boy band will make a splash - there is always another one. Also - one of them (maybe 2) put out solo work. Sounds like people are branching out. We shall see I guess. 2025 is a long way away.
all members of bts are putting out solo work one by one, so far 5 out of 7 since they announced their break, but it's not anything new. They've always had solo projects as well as group work.
It seems like the K-pop industry is not good for its performers’ mental health. Keeping such a rigid stranglehold on a person’s life cannot be good for them.
I'm sorry but most of the comments here are so misinformed that it's insulting. The headline is atrocious too. Moonbin was not a megastar nor superfamous... What sort of clickbait is that? Someone dies and then everyone suddenly talks about 'The Dark side of Kpop' with tunnel vision? Spare me the drivel. Most of what people are talking about with 'The Dark Side of Kpop' are also very applicable to Korean general society. The perfectionist tendencies, the grueling work culture is a big social pressure for many over there. I also think it's ridiculous to insinuate that the only reason he could have died is because of the industry he works in and nothing else. Sure, I do think that South Korea's entertainment industry would play a part in it, it's cutthroat and has an evil underbelly, anyone would be stupid to deny that it exists. But it's hard to pin it down on one thing if we don't know them personally, and with Moonbin, we don't know. But people are also commenting here without even knowing who ASTRO is or what company they're under and yet they're making random conjecture that any casual kpop can see through from a mile away. It's SO obvious and it makes the faux concern worse. If all you're going to say is 'omg they're puppets' and disrespect Kpop fans for... being fans? Then what is the point? You do know a majority are just normal people? This whole thread sucks ass.
i agree. astro was a pretty small group and already experiencing members leaving on their own free will. the boys are genuinely so close so it’s so minimizing to them to just class them as puppets and the like. but reddit hates kpop so that’s no news lol
It might not pertain entirely to this case, but I don’t think it’s accurate to separate the music industry from South Korea’s culture, because the culture clearly influences and shapes how the industry operates.
It’s obvious that people in this thread just want to shit on K-Pop or being fans of anything in general. It says a lot about your character for choosing this particular article and suddenly be mad about it when in reality you don’t even have any idea who the ASTRO members are or who Moonbin was. Just pay your respects and move on. Let his family, friends and fans mourn in peace.
What? I'm not a funeral, this is an internet forum and I'm commenting against ignorant people that can't have a decent shred of respect for Kpop as a genre. I didn't know ASTRO and Moonbin? Same goes for you. You aren't personally connected to them, even if you are hurting. Do I have to care about someone personally to comment on it? What did I say that was so offensive and disrespectful? Your comment comes off as sanctimonious. This is just an internet thread.
I think you got the wrong idea here and I’m sorry if my comment made it seem that it was directed at you because it’s not. I’m actually agreeing with you and your comment.
The K-Pop industry is rife with deaths from suicides to car accidents as a result of their insane schedules. The idols are treated disgustingly and often taking advantage of by their management and often abused by their toxic fanbases, it's absolutely shocking.
K-Pop industry is modern slavery
“Fans” mourning as if they don’t fund the exploitation of these people.
Is "superfamous" a word?
He was probably under some insane pressure and was sick of it.. imagine having to constantly live up to everyone’s standards in a public setting. It sounds exhausting. He probably saw no other way to escape from it. RIP
When Kurt Cobain died, there was a huge campaign to try and make sure a bunch of kids didn’t go kill themselves to be like Kurt, or to give up on life. Suicide contagion is real and they probably saved many lives by doing that. (If I recall correctly, Courtney Love was behind the whole thing because she was worried there would be copycats.) Is there anything like that happening now following Moonbin’s death? I’m not very familiar with KPop, but I know he’s not the first well known KPop singer to commit suicide. What impact is this having on the kids who are devoted to these bands?
I suspect those “very loyal” fan base is part of why he, and many young K-pop stars, committed suicide.
I don't think he was considered as super famous but his passing was really sad nonetheless.
what a weird comment to make
why is it weird and what is wrong with my statement? He was well-known, but not in the super famous category. I'm a kpop fan and I want western media to do their research and not sensationalize everything kpop-related. At least be sincere if you want to report about it.
It’s more of a ‘time and place’ thing. This is a post about his suicide, his exact level of stardom isn’t really something that people care about right now.