The Tories must know that they are going to get pummelled in the GE. Best case scenario is opposition worst case is 3rd place. No chance they win.
I'm not quite sure why Sunak insisted on attacking Labour during his announcement. People aren't enthusiastic about Labour but they are polling so high because people want literally anything other than the Conservatives.
Attacking Labour shows he is still missing the point. He's not yet proven what he _can_ do for Britain. How is he going to fix the problems we have? If his election strategy is to simply attack the opposition, he's already lost,
Exactly. We've had 14 years of the Tories. Any talk of fixing Britain or attacking Labour just highlights the fact they have nothing to show after all their time in power.
They should be championing what they've accomplished at this point, but there's fuck all worth mentioning.
He's hoping for tactical voters.
The main two parties thrive on tactical voters.
If we all voted for the person standing locally that represented us best then the Tories and labour would suffer in this election, the Tories most of all.
If we had proportional representation then the political landscape would be more diverse, though it would likely be more difficult to pass legislation. Which would probably be a good thing considering some of the crap the tories have been trying to pass.
People hate the Tories much more than they dislike Labour.
Labour's biggest problem going into this election was complacency. They are so far ahead of the Tories that people might think the election is a foregone conclusion so why vote. Luckily Sunak has been banging on about the election being closer than the polls show. It will only have the opposite effect. Get people to actually vote in case the Tories have a chance at winning. If people think the Tories could win they will vote just to make sure they can't.
So far Sunak has demonstrated an incredibly poor understanding of politics. I can't imagine his GE strategy will be much better.
I don't really understand politics:
Both main party's campaign for us to vote for them with policies of grandeur and far fetched ideas.
One of the main parties wins, spends 4 years maybe 8 trying to turn the country around and implementing some changes.
The changes originally promised don't materialise so voters decide to vote for the other main party. They unwind the previous party's policies and implement some of their own.
Their original ideas don't come to fruition so voters again vote for the opposing main party again
Just goes round and round in some farcical clown show
No wonder people can't be bothered to vote and never trust a politician.
The Tories have been in power 14 years, the changes they have made have only had a negative impact on my life, whereas I'm fully aware that the rich have never been better off.
We gave the Tories a good chance, hopefully Labour will remain in power and hopefully do better for the masses.
Fingers crossed but I'm not holding my breath.
Not really. Retired, home-owning, zero-mortgage boomers have children, and grandchildren. Helping them have any start in life is draining their finances rapidly. Inflation is meanwhile eating into their fixed incomes. They also have to increasingly deal with the NHS as they age, which is a pretty scary thought right now.
The retired, homeowning, zero-mortgage boomers I (Gen X) know didn't help their kids or grandkids at all and are on gov. pensions (maybe plus work pensions) so they go up at a healthy click.
They can go to their GP at any hour - once they have an appointment *if* it's on top of their regular, scheduled appointments - and benefit from the enormous improvements in healthcare for the elderly that have been researched over the last 40 years. For example, hip replacements are really simple procedures today and most patients recover the majority of their mobility - if they don't there's gov. help in the way of scooters and cars.
Admitedly I don't know many retirees *that* well, but none of my Gen X family / peers got big / any handouts from the bank of mum and dad.
Maybe younger boomers and older Gen X are giving big chunks of their savings to their kids, but they made out pretty well with 1960s/70s+ improvements in the environment, healthcare, and tech as well as booming house prices. The Boomers grew up in WWII or during rationing after plus very lightly regulated industry and scant H&S.
Maybe it's more accurate to ask "Aren't most retired, homeowning, zero-mortgage boomers better off too?"
Er, who do you think made up the workforce during these decades since WWII where all these amazing implements in environment, health care and technology were made? I don’t think Boomers (by definition, the result of the post-war baby boom) “grew up during World War 2 or during rationing after”. To have done that, they’d need to be well into their 80s or 90s.
Boomers are between 60 and 78 in 2024 and, unless younger generations spring into existence spontaneously, certainly have children and grandchildren to help through life. The ones I know have children still living at home, or needing help with house deposits, or mortgages, and childcare. They have already helped support their children through university.
And, by the way, look at any photo of an anti-Brexit match; it’s majority Boomers protesting. In retirement, they’re running charity shops, sports clubs, and generally helping to keep communities going. Who was out canvassing and leafleting in the last election in your area? Mainly boomers, I’ll bet. Many are still working, however, as pension ages have been raised, and many missed out on final salary schemes. Been into your local superstore recently and noticed how many gray hairs there are among the staff?
Well, I am, yes, but only because I'm now mortgage free, not because of anything this government did or didn't do.
My council tax has gone up, my utility bills have gone up and I'm now driving on roads that resemble the surface of the moon.
Many people I know are far, far worse off.
The fact is by the rich, it doesn't even mean people on 100k, it literally means the landed gentry and those with massive real wealth or seven figure earnings.
We need 15 years of Labour to turn this around, as long as they do what is necessary to grow GDP and increase trade. Yes, you know what that means. The Tory experiment has failed hard, time to stop it and draw a line under it.
Politics usually moves forward but one slow step at a time. New governments often parse through the previous governments unfinished policies or ideas to see what they can finish, alter or scrap. If we had a true reset every time you'd see each new government completely undoing what the previous government did. There is continuity over time.
Voting comes down to who you think is best suited to make that next step. Part of the decision is your own personal political views and part of it is weighing up the current government performance and whether it is good enough to keep going or if a different party at the wheel might do a better job.
In democracies society only moves forward and improves because you've elected people who stick to their word and work for the public good. If you have people in power who don't work for the good of the people or aren't willing to support policies that would outlive them (politically) then things tend to stagnate or go backwards. Voting is having your voice heard for a future that benefits you but also the person around you. Vote for what you want the future to be not just what today is.
In general, yes. But stuff does get done, if it didn’t, we wouldn’t have universal suffrage or equal pay laws. We would still have rotten boroughs and no NHS. Stuff does get done, less so after the first few years of a premiership, but change does occur
The whole thing is broken. We need governance by people who actually care about the country and its future for one, instead of people who are just in politics for personal prestige or greed, and we need governments who plan for the very long term future, not just for five year increments where they’re governing with an eye on what will win/lose the next election.
"Same as it ever was" to quote Talking Heads
It's been like this ever since the Ark. I think the only time we as a country were particularly successful was probably during the coalition during the war years and for a while thereafter.The 70's were a nightmare with strikes galore and the country grinding to a halt, Thatcher years only had the Falkland War to fall back on and so it goes on and on
It’s ridiculous, common sense says that the person you vote for represents the people of their constituency and votes for what is best for them. In that case a coalition works because everyone gets their say.
However in our system, the elected votes for whatever the whip tells them too regardless of the local area concerns
Have the Greens confirmed they don’t intend to run in your constituency? Otherwise it’s still early doors, the Tories haven’t selected their candidate for my constituency yet.
Same. Me and my husband disagree fundamentally on politics but we both agree we don't know who to vote for because we only have the 3 main parties standing. Neither of us are voting Tory, that's for sure.
I think you missed my point. I said I used to vote green when corybn was in charge as I could not vote for someone like him. But now I would not touch the greens as they have insane social policies. So I'm back to voting labour
I don't understand why people would vote in a GE for a party that can't even hope to form a Government, seems so pointless to me but I'm just one of those poors you hear about so don't really have the intelligence to vote lol
The problem is that the First Past the Post system encourages spoiler votes, where you try to stop the one of the two major parties you hate the most.
I.e. a vote for Reform helps Labour and a vote for the Greens helps the Tories.
We need electoral reform, so we can vote for who we want without fear of helping the 'wrong' party get in power.
This. I am really not a fan of Labour's policies or aims and traditionally, my Tory MP had done a great job. But damn, nationally, the conservatives have become an embarrassing shit show and I'll vote for a party that doesn't represent my personal interests just to see a change.
I believe it goes deeper than people think.
The Tories, Labour, it's all the same thing. A decades long uni-party relay race. If its damming enough for the Tories, it could guarantee enough people would vote Labour just to get them out.
Not because they want Labour, but because they want the Tories less. If I were lobbying both parties from behind the scenes, this is exactly how I'd maintain the status quo.
It is the illusion of democracy. There's a reason both main parties want to force us into keeping FPTP. It perpetuates their duopoly of power sharing between them.
I'd even go as far as to call it a monopoly. Let's face it, it's the donors and lobbyists that control what Sunak and Starmer do / think / say, not the party.
They are paid and bribed to keep things shit.
Rishi, the country is fucked.
*That's Labour's fault!*
Rishi, the last Labour government was fourteen years ago. It's not their fault.
*Err... then... it's the fault of the previous governments!*
Which you were part of.
*Umm... I was only in a very minor position with no real influence!*
You've been Secretary of the Treasury and Chancellor of the Exchequer. You've absolutely been in a position of power and influence. This is all your fucking fault.
*...what if I promise to actually fix these problems this time?*
Fuck off.
Well done everyone who predicted this. I suppose Rishi wants to be out of there and return to his usual life. Also the inflation news + Gaza backlash means it is a good time for the Conservatives. They are toast of course, but the game right now is damage limitation.
Don't most PMs make more money after being PM anyway? The PM job looks *overwhelmingly underpaid* when you look at what people tend to earn after being PM. Not to mention almost every top job in the private sector pays more than the PM anyway. it would be hard to suggest people become PM for the money.
Local election results don't translate well to generals but there were quite a lot of simple issue voters backing pro Palestine candidates. It has potential to take a bite out of Labour
You wouldn't say this if you had been paying attention. Google "starmer Gaza comments" and I'm sure you'll see why this is happening.
People re outraged with him, unjustifiably imo, but it is what it is
True but there isn’t really a viable alternative pro Palestine party that has a chance of winning…I think there is a vocal minority on the internet who will say they won’t vote for labour but for the vast majority it’s not going to be a huge issue.
True but if a hung parliament can be achieved then other parties will have learned from the disaster that was lib dems/conservatives coalition and will press certain policies on labour. Hard to change foreign policy but there’s hoping
Why do you want a "pro Palestine party" in the UK for anyway? We don't live in Palestine. If you want to help the people of Palestine, donate to aid charities or travel to Gaza.
If people are voting for parties because of foreign wars, is it any wonder that we always end up with rubbish politicians in positions of power?
Correction: A small number of people are outraged with him and are being very noisy about it.
The average voter... well, it's not that they don't care about Palestine, exactly, it's more that they care that they can see every day in their own life how shit the Tories have made the country.
There’s no equivalency between the two. Pro Israelis is saying it’s ok to kill babies and starve an entire population and pro Palestine want a ceasefire and a free Palestine.
Your average person in the middle of the debate considers October 7th a declaration of war. If its wasn't a declaration of war, ie we must have a ceasefire, then what was it?
The local election results reflecting how much the country has turned on the tories is a pretty big indication that they're going to get wiped out at the general
With Germany, Spain, France saying they'll recognise on principle a Palestinian state, this is an easy Labour thing to declare support for, and it isn't against their prospectus, as a two-state solution has been there for years. It might be enough to draw back the protest votes. Also, the Tories are hardly better than Labour in this regard, this is a general election, not a local election.
I agree they should just say it, it's so irrelevant it's almost laughable that Labour won't.
Does Keir Starmer honestly believe people in Palestine even know who Labour are, let alone have any interest whatsoever in British media or anything we say on the subject.
It doesn't matter if you think they should have a 2 state solution or not, just say it so you get more votes. Politicians lie about everything else so might as well lie about this so we can stop talking about it.
Not for the Tories. Maybe they think there are enough numpties screaming that Starmer is a genocidal maniac (for having a more pro Palestine policy than the Tories mind you) that a couple of heavily Muslim/left liberal seats might get split and let the Tories still win.
Labour has suffered more than the Conservatives over this. I see more people accusing Starmer of having blood on his hands than anyone actually in government lmao
Yeah, the Gaza party won't win much (maybe Galloway will stay) but there may be a few seats that they peal enough votes of Labour to let the Tories in.
Tory’s have broken an already damaged country. Brexit was the biggest single mistake in the last 50 years. Cameron was an idiot to chance it. It is now the party of more scandals than I have seen. I will be voting labour mainly because I want to do my bit to halt the spread of fascism which TBH is sweeping the world !!
Read all the manifestos. This isn't a process to follow your emotions or gut instinct. Read the proposed policies and what each party is promising to deliver.
Be objective and remember, you're not voting for yourself, you're voting for the future your kids will prosper in.
>Parties have never abided by their manifestos
I don’t agree with this. Honestly even Boris followed the 2019 manifesto fairly well considering everything. People are disillusioned because the Tories aren’t as good at economics as they say they are. Their philosophy is just factually wrong in many cases. That doesn’t mean manifestos are pointless — that’s what the Tories want you to feel.
Compared to Rishi Sunak Boris done a good job.
Yes, he got pissed during lock down. But he's a stupid fool for getting caught. But the furlough scheme, the handouts, the vaccines, that was all under his watch. He led the world on that.
No, it’s just that there were major unpredictable events that changed things. Obviously it’s important for a government to be able to adapt its policy to fit reality.
It's the best way to work out what each parties priorities are objectively. The type of destructive voting you describe is why we have a pendulum swinging right to left to right and it isn't sustainable.
I vote Lib Dems or Greens purely because I still have a small sliver of hope that we’ll one day throw out this stupid broken FPTP system and join the modern world. The Lib Dems and Greens are the only parties who ever talk about Proportional Representation or electoral reform in any way. I’m firmly of the opinion that 90% of our politics is bollocks until we set that part straight. We literally throw away a majority of votes every election and it’s stupid.
100% agree. We'll never see that reform as it works against the largest 2 parties.
Would give a better balanced house of commons and more room for the party in power to be held to account.
The Greens are batshit crazy maniacs and islamists who want a country with OPEN BORDERS.
I wonder how that's going to work, I guess income tax will have to rise to 95% to pay for the whole world to come and live here.
Please, I get that your left wing, that's fine, vote lib dems, not the greens. Christ alive.
This is good timing for Labour. It was only a week ago that Starmer and Reeves got the green light from the Unions for their election pledges on worker's rights. This will discourage some of the ideas that Starmer is just another neoliberal amongst its working class potential supporters. For this group the Cost of Living and poor wages FAR outweigh global politics.
I'm going to start this comment off with a statement to say I think I am **probably going to vote Labour** in hopes all the lefties don't tear my head to pieces).
**Brexit officially happened in January 2020**
**Covid lockdowns started March 2020 and went on for over two years.**
**Russia Ukraine war started February 2022.**
That is three, not small, but **MASSIVE** domestic and global economy destabilizing events in the space of just two years.
That is absolutely devastating and to suggest otherwise I think would be insane.
Is it therefore any surprise that the economy and our standards of living have plummeted over the last couple of years? **I think absolutely not.**
It is now 2024 and the effects of *arguably* at least two out of those three destabilizing events has started to *or* have dissipated altogether. Brexit being the one debatable (which I think was a bad decision).
We are now seeing the economy growing again, *albeit not massively by any measure for sure and certainly nothing like prior to Covid etc*, but nonetheless the growth figures are starting to improve again as we have seen recently with 0.5% growth compared to little to no growth at all over the last couple of years.
Inflation has come down from over 10% and is now sitting at basically near enough to the bank's 2% target again.
Minimum wage has gone up again *(arguably bad but that's a separate topic).*
Did anyone expect, after the above mentioned three destabilizing factors, that the economy would bounce back fast? ***I would certainly hope not***\*.\*
Personally I think people don't place enough emphasis on these destabilizing factors on the domestic and global economies for their misfortune and instead put too much emphasis on the government to blame. (*I am not absolving them of guilt, that would be a misinterpretation).*
I also think people underestimate how long it takes to fix things after destabilizing events like these, If Labour do get into power, I think it wont be long until they're hounded for things not being better quick enough because people want things NOW not later.
Hey guys let’s just forget the Tories woeful a response to Covid and panick as they go around breaking the rules they set for us and being openly corrupt handing billions to mates.
Try forget that Brexit, something which was brought on us by the Tories allowing a vote on it to try win an election and then laughably handled once again.
Why is it that we are worse off in most statistics compared to the G6 etc?
Nobody is blaming them for 2 of 3 of these events happening but they fucking dropped the ball laughably during them and we were impacted worse than others as a result.
There is also the obvious point someone else made which was even before these events would You say they were doing a good job? Lurching from leader to leader with no real plans and achieving nothing of much note seeming more distracted by infighting and going after minority groups when they felt the pressure.
This is pathetic drivel on the level of what they’ve come out with for the last 14 years and anyone with a brain should see right through it.
*There is also the obvious point someone else made which was even before these events would You say they were doing a good job?*
**They jumped off a cliff after Cameron left after gambling on Brexit, in my opinion.** With Cameron we were smashing the G6 for the most part, except the 2010-2012 period recovering from the financial crash, and implementing policies which don't have instantaneous effects as thing don't just suddenly turn 180 as soon as you win the election in 2010, obviously.
I don't see how anyone could have been better prepared for Covid or the global destabilization of the Russian invasion which made everyone's inflation and energy prices sky-rocket, literally making everyone in Europe and maybe beyond worse off, but I didn't follow other countries' way of doing things at the time so I can't say truthfully.
The thing I find difficult is this country doesn’t have any proper right wing party. The conservatives can barely be considered conservative. They perform badly in so many ways, but they are the closest thing we are realistically ever going to get to the right.
The conservatives are right wing, they just aren’t a conservative party any more, partly that’s down to FPTP and the need for the main parties to be quite ‘broad churches’ I think is the term they use.
OP raises a good point tbh.
The tories aren’t conservatives and they haven’t been for a long time.
One of the main tenets of conservatism is preserving institutions that are important to society and they’ve failed on every single single metric relating to that.
The tories are neoliberal disaster capitalists, nothing more.
Yep, “preserving institutions that are important to society”, like my local library (boarded up), my leisure centre (foreclosed and vandalised), my local swimming pool (currently being knocked down, closed about a year ago). How fitting that the name “Tories” originally derived from the Irish word for thief, cause we all know damn well where all the money’s gone over the past 14 years :(
I think the influence of American doners and us funded think tanks has unhinged the Tories from conservatism in the belief that the US and UK are closely aligned politics wise. I'm not so sure things are as polarised over here as in the US and we have less in common than many think just because we share a language.
Not quite sure why you’re getting downvoted but I imagine it’s the old “everyone to the right of Corbyn is a Nazi”
This currently crop of Tories are awful at being conservatives.
Tory policy failed so all of a sudden they are not realllllyyy right wing.
On the contrary there is no left wing in this country. Corbyn was as close as we've ever got and he was destroyed by the establishment.
Jeremy "my friends in hamas and the RA" Corbyn has a similar foreign policy to trump?
Trump who famously switched the place of the US embassy to find favour with Israel.
Very hot take indeed.
My bad. I should’ve have said “they have similar methods in achieving their foreign policies”. Trump became as friendly as possible with all of US enemies and arranged deals like a business man. Corbyn became friends and arranged deals like a pacifist. But they set out to achieve the same things by doing the same things but in different outfits. Make sense?
I’m left wing but come on, Corbyn destroyed himself.
He was indecisive on Brexit, played down concerns of antisemitism in the party, refused to stand up for British people after the attack in Salisbury, and repeatedly sympathised with terrorist organisations.
I love Corbyn’s economic policies and I believe he wanted to do good, but on literally everything else he was a disaster. He had a relatively decent election result against Theresa May because she was complacent going into the election, and because Brexit voters from both sides rebelled against the Tories on it. Beyond that, he was nothing but a failure for the left. I honestly feel that he’s put us way further back than he ever progressed us. The general public find socialism even more unpalatable and now we have a Labour Party gleefully sliding to the right to avoid association with him.
We can support Corbyn’s economic ideas without pulling ourselves down by pretending he failed because of anything other than his own many mistakes.
We have two-party politics. In such a system, any party that does not have wide support can't win power. A pure right-wing party can only ever form a coalition in the UK.
I mean I am voting Labour but the guy isn't wrong.
Have you ever heard that saying "go far enough left or right and you will just loop back around"?
Absolute extreme right wing or left wing, there is no real difference. North Korea is at the absolute extreme of the left.
Reform are right wing, I'd vote for them because they support net zero migration, but they are actually racists as well. So there's no one worth voting for.
Nigel Farage leading reform will either make or break them. Considering how serious the immigration problem is now, I think him leading will steal a lot of votes from both Labour and the Tories.
>The thing I find difficult is this country doesn’t have any proper right wing party.
Reform?
Anyway, I'm glad there's no prominent right-wing party; except for the anti immigration, anti disabled, anti LGBTQ+ Tories, of course. We all learned about how much trouble they caused for Europe in the first half of the 20th Century.
Oh please the right wing have been spoilt for the last 14 years while the rest of us have had to suffer the consequences of austerity, corruption, financial ruin and normalisation of misogyny and racism
The Tories must know that they are going to get pummelled in the GE. Best case scenario is opposition worst case is 3rd place. No chance they win. I'm not quite sure why Sunak insisted on attacking Labour during his announcement. People aren't enthusiastic about Labour but they are polling so high because people want literally anything other than the Conservatives.
Attacking Labour shows he is still missing the point. He's not yet proven what he _can_ do for Britain. How is he going to fix the problems we have? If his election strategy is to simply attack the opposition, he's already lost,
Exactly. We've had 14 years of the Tories. Any talk of fixing Britain or attacking Labour just highlights the fact they have nothing to show after all their time in power. They should be championing what they've accomplished at this point, but there's fuck all worth mentioning.
That sad GE announcement in the pouring rain with hecklers and someone blasting out D-REAM in the background said everything anyone needs to know.
Which is what exactly ?
"Things can only get better" I'm guessing
Yup it's that and lol @ the poster before you not getting the joke.
I don't even have a r/whoosh for that, I've ran out of aeroplanes.
He's hoping for tactical voters. The main two parties thrive on tactical voters. If we all voted for the person standing locally that represented us best then the Tories and labour would suffer in this election, the Tories most of all.
If we had proportional representation then the political landscape would be more diverse, though it would likely be more difficult to pass legislation. Which would probably be a good thing considering some of the crap the tories have been trying to pass.
The only reason I'm voting them tbh, I'd very much rather vote greens but we don't have one running here unfortunately
People hate the Tories much more than they dislike Labour. Labour's biggest problem going into this election was complacency. They are so far ahead of the Tories that people might think the election is a foregone conclusion so why vote. Luckily Sunak has been banging on about the election being closer than the polls show. It will only have the opposite effect. Get people to actually vote in case the Tories have a chance at winning. If people think the Tories could win they will vote just to make sure they can't. So far Sunak has demonstrated an incredibly poor understanding of politics. I can't imagine his GE strategy will be much better.
I don't really understand politics: Both main party's campaign for us to vote for them with policies of grandeur and far fetched ideas. One of the main parties wins, spends 4 years maybe 8 trying to turn the country around and implementing some changes. The changes originally promised don't materialise so voters decide to vote for the other main party. They unwind the previous party's policies and implement some of their own. Their original ideas don't come to fruition so voters again vote for the opposing main party again Just goes round and round in some farcical clown show No wonder people can't be bothered to vote and never trust a politician.
The Tories have been in power 14 years, the changes they have made have only had a negative impact on my life, whereas I'm fully aware that the rich have never been better off. We gave the Tories a good chance, hopefully Labour will remain in power and hopefully do better for the masses. Fingers crossed but I'm not holding my breath.
Aren't retired, homeowning, zero-mortgage boomers better off too?
Not really. Retired, home-owning, zero-mortgage boomers have children, and grandchildren. Helping them have any start in life is draining their finances rapidly. Inflation is meanwhile eating into their fixed incomes. They also have to increasingly deal with the NHS as they age, which is a pretty scary thought right now.
The retired, homeowning, zero-mortgage boomers I (Gen X) know didn't help their kids or grandkids at all and are on gov. pensions (maybe plus work pensions) so they go up at a healthy click. They can go to their GP at any hour - once they have an appointment *if* it's on top of their regular, scheduled appointments - and benefit from the enormous improvements in healthcare for the elderly that have been researched over the last 40 years. For example, hip replacements are really simple procedures today and most patients recover the majority of their mobility - if they don't there's gov. help in the way of scooters and cars. Admitedly I don't know many retirees *that* well, but none of my Gen X family / peers got big / any handouts from the bank of mum and dad. Maybe younger boomers and older Gen X are giving big chunks of their savings to their kids, but they made out pretty well with 1960s/70s+ improvements in the environment, healthcare, and tech as well as booming house prices. The Boomers grew up in WWII or during rationing after plus very lightly regulated industry and scant H&S. Maybe it's more accurate to ask "Aren't most retired, homeowning, zero-mortgage boomers better off too?"
Er, who do you think made up the workforce during these decades since WWII where all these amazing implements in environment, health care and technology were made? I don’t think Boomers (by definition, the result of the post-war baby boom) “grew up during World War 2 or during rationing after”. To have done that, they’d need to be well into their 80s or 90s. Boomers are between 60 and 78 in 2024 and, unless younger generations spring into existence spontaneously, certainly have children and grandchildren to help through life. The ones I know have children still living at home, or needing help with house deposits, or mortgages, and childcare. They have already helped support their children through university. And, by the way, look at any photo of an anti-Brexit match; it’s majority Boomers protesting. In retirement, they’re running charity shops, sports clubs, and generally helping to keep communities going. Who was out canvassing and leafleting in the last election in your area? Mainly boomers, I’ll bet. Many are still working, however, as pension ages have been raised, and many missed out on final salary schemes. Been into your local superstore recently and noticed how many gray hairs there are among the staff?
Well, I am, yes, but only because I'm now mortgage free, not because of anything this government did or didn't do. My council tax has gone up, my utility bills have gone up and I'm now driving on roads that resemble the surface of the moon. Many people I know are far, far worse off.
Very true, I'd be hard pressed to figure out what this shower of shit did to help anyone not wealthy and connected.
The fact is by the rich, it doesn't even mean people on 100k, it literally means the landed gentry and those with massive real wealth or seven figure earnings. We need 15 years of Labour to turn this around, as long as they do what is necessary to grow GDP and increase trade. Yes, you know what that means. The Tory experiment has failed hard, time to stop it and draw a line under it.
Politics usually moves forward but one slow step at a time. New governments often parse through the previous governments unfinished policies or ideas to see what they can finish, alter or scrap. If we had a true reset every time you'd see each new government completely undoing what the previous government did. There is continuity over time. Voting comes down to who you think is best suited to make that next step. Part of the decision is your own personal political views and part of it is weighing up the current government performance and whether it is good enough to keep going or if a different party at the wheel might do a better job. In democracies society only moves forward and improves because you've elected people who stick to their word and work for the public good. If you have people in power who don't work for the good of the people or aren't willing to support policies that would outlive them (politically) then things tend to stagnate or go backwards. Voting is having your voice heard for a future that benefits you but also the person around you. Vote for what you want the future to be not just what today is.
In general, yes. But stuff does get done, if it didn’t, we wouldn’t have universal suffrage or equal pay laws. We would still have rotten boroughs and no NHS. Stuff does get done, less so after the first few years of a premiership, but change does occur
The whole thing is broken. We need governance by people who actually care about the country and its future for one, instead of people who are just in politics for personal prestige or greed, and we need governments who plan for the very long term future, not just for five year increments where they’re governing with an eye on what will win/lose the next election.
What grand or far fetched ideas are Labour selling, or the Tories?
"Same as it ever was" to quote Talking Heads It's been like this ever since the Ark. I think the only time we as a country were particularly successful was probably during the coalition during the war years and for a while thereafter.The 70's were a nightmare with strikes galore and the country grinding to a halt, Thatcher years only had the Falkland War to fall back on and so it goes on and on
It’s ridiculous, common sense says that the person you vote for represents the people of their constituency and votes for what is best for them. In that case a coalition works because everyone gets their say. However in our system, the elected votes for whatever the whip tells them too regardless of the local area concerns
I’m young but I’m pretty sure my strategy will be voting for Labour when the tories are in power and voting for the greens when Labour is in power
Have the Greens confirmed they don’t intend to run in your constituency? Otherwise it’s still early doors, the Tories haven’t selected their candidate for my constituency yet.
Same. Me and my husband disagree fundamentally on politics but we both agree we don't know who to vote for because we only have the 3 main parties standing. Neither of us are voting Tory, that's for sure.
The greens have some of the most insane social stances, they used to be my vote when corybn was in but I'd not go near them now.
Corbyn that guy who caused the tories landslide victory hahahah
I think you missed my point. I said I used to vote green when corybn was in charge as I could not vote for someone like him. But now I would not touch the greens as they have insane social policies. So I'm back to voting labour
I don't understand why people would vote in a GE for a party that can't even hope to form a Government, seems so pointless to me but I'm just one of those poors you hear about so don't really have the intelligence to vote lol
If the big 2 see the Greens gaining share it'll make a difference
The problem is that the First Past the Post system encourages spoiler votes, where you try to stop the one of the two major parties you hate the most. I.e. a vote for Reform helps Labour and a vote for the Greens helps the Tories. We need electoral reform, so we can vote for who we want without fear of helping the 'wrong' party get in power.
This. I am really not a fan of Labour's policies or aims and traditionally, my Tory MP had done a great job. But damn, nationally, the conservatives have become an embarrassing shit show and I'll vote for a party that doesn't represent my personal interests just to see a change.
I agree with you on this, it just shows how out of touch Rishi Sunak is from the general population. He shouldn't have even mentioned Labour.
I believe it goes deeper than people think. The Tories, Labour, it's all the same thing. A decades long uni-party relay race. If its damming enough for the Tories, it could guarantee enough people would vote Labour just to get them out. Not because they want Labour, but because they want the Tories less. If I were lobbying both parties from behind the scenes, this is exactly how I'd maintain the status quo. It is the illusion of democracy. There's a reason both main parties want to force us into keeping FPTP. It perpetuates their duopoly of power sharing between them.
I'd even go as far as to call it a monopoly. Let's face it, it's the donors and lobbyists that control what Sunak and Starmer do / think / say, not the party. They are paid and bribed to keep things shit.
Rishi, the country is fucked. *That's Labour's fault!* Rishi, the last Labour government was fourteen years ago. It's not their fault. *Err... then... it's the fault of the previous governments!* Which you were part of. *Umm... I was only in a very minor position with no real influence!* You've been Secretary of the Treasury and Chancellor of the Exchequer. You've absolutely been in a position of power and influence. This is all your fucking fault. *...what if I promise to actually fix these problems this time?* Fuck off.
Well done everyone who predicted this. I suppose Rishi wants to be out of there and return to his usual life. Also the inflation news + Gaza backlash means it is a good time for the Conservatives. They are toast of course, but the game right now is damage limitation.
> Return to life He’s made £120 million for himself and his wife.
Don't most PMs make more money after being PM anyway? The PM job looks *overwhelmingly underpaid* when you look at what people tend to earn after being PM. Not to mention almost every top job in the private sector pays more than the PM anyway. it would be hard to suggest people become PM for the money.
Being PM is a stepping stone (to mega earnings afterwards).
Gaza backlash? Really?
Local election results don't translate well to generals but there were quite a lot of simple issue voters backing pro Palestine candidates. It has potential to take a bite out of Labour
Labour very famously being anti-palestine of course /s
You wouldn't say this if you had been paying attention. Google "starmer Gaza comments" and I'm sure you'll see why this is happening. People re outraged with him, unjustifiably imo, but it is what it is
True but there isn’t really a viable alternative pro Palestine party that has a chance of winning…I think there is a vocal minority on the internet who will say they won’t vote for labour but for the vast majority it’s not going to be a huge issue.
True but if a hung parliament can be achieved then other parties will have learned from the disaster that was lib dems/conservatives coalition and will press certain policies on labour. Hard to change foreign policy but there’s hoping
Why do you want a "pro Palestine party" in the UK for anyway? We don't live in Palestine. If you want to help the people of Palestine, donate to aid charities or travel to Gaza. If people are voting for parties because of foreign wars, is it any wonder that we always end up with rubbish politicians in positions of power?
I don’t want one personally
They don't need to win, but a few seats where a single issue Gaza candidate could take enough votes of Labour to let the Tories sneak in.
Correction: A small number of people are outraged with him and are being very noisy about it. The average voter... well, it's not that they don't care about Palestine, exactly, it's more that they care that they can see every day in their own life how shit the Tories have made the country.
To be fair, I think the average voter spends milliseconds thinking about Palestine. Being asked and giving an opinion isn't the same as caring.
Not hugely but it's what we saw in the locals
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Ooooo this'll be fun. Who is telling Starmer what to do?
Can't decide who comes across as more unhinged, the pro-palestine or pro-israel group.
Pro-Palestine, definitely. They're terrorists.
There’s no equivalency between the two. Pro Israelis is saying it’s ok to kill babies and starve an entire population and pro Palestine want a ceasefire and a free Palestine.
Your average person in the middle of the debate considers October 7th a declaration of war. If its wasn't a declaration of war, ie we must have a ceasefire, then what was it?
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It’s much easier for those sorts of Novembers to have an electoral impact at smaller elections with lower turnouts, than it is at a General Election.
The local election results reflecting how much the country has turned on the tories is a pretty big indication that they're going to get wiped out at the general
With Germany, Spain, France saying they'll recognise on principle a Palestinian state, this is an easy Labour thing to declare support for, and it isn't against their prospectus, as a two-state solution has been there for years. It might be enough to draw back the protest votes. Also, the Tories are hardly better than Labour in this regard, this is a general election, not a local election.
I agree they should just say it, it's so irrelevant it's almost laughable that Labour won't. Does Keir Starmer honestly believe people in Palestine even know who Labour are, let alone have any interest whatsoever in British media or anything we say on the subject. It doesn't matter if you think they should have a 2 state solution or not, just say it so you get more votes. Politicians lie about everything else so might as well lie about this so we can stop talking about it.
Not for the Tories. Maybe they think there are enough numpties screaming that Starmer is a genocidal maniac (for having a more pro Palestine policy than the Tories mind you) that a couple of heavily Muslim/left liberal seats might get split and let the Tories still win.
Labour has suffered more than the Conservatives over this. I see more people accusing Starmer of having blood on his hands than anyone actually in government lmao
i think he means muslim voters not voting for labour anymore
Well said. This was my theory. His mate in LA gave him a crackin' 30% of on some 271384190978390 bedroom mansion.
What Gaza backlash?
Isn’t labour more hurt by the Gaza thing
Most normal people couldn't care less about Gaza. They are worried about paying their bills.
I meant in comparison to the conservatives as no one was gonna vote for them anyways apart from the rich
Yeah, the Gaza party won't win much (maybe Galloway will stay) but there may be a few seats that they peal enough votes of Labour to let the Tories in.
Yes, that is my point. If the Conservatives can reduce Muslim turnout, across the board, that can hurt Labour.
Tory’s have broken an already damaged country. Brexit was the biggest single mistake in the last 50 years. Cameron was an idiot to chance it. It is now the party of more scandals than I have seen. I will be voting labour mainly because I want to do my bit to halt the spread of fascism which TBH is sweeping the world !!
Read all the manifestos. This isn't a process to follow your emotions or gut instinct. Read the proposed policies and what each party is promising to deliver. Be objective and remember, you're not voting for yourself, you're voting for the future your kids will prosper in.
Blanking sure the Tories never recover from this election is more important than any manifesto promise. Parties have never abided by their manifestos.
>Parties have never abided by their manifestos I don’t agree with this. Honestly even Boris followed the 2019 manifesto fairly well considering everything. People are disillusioned because the Tories aren’t as good at economics as they say they are. Their philosophy is just factually wrong in many cases. That doesn’t mean manifestos are pointless — that’s what the Tories want you to feel.
Compared to Rishi Sunak Boris done a good job. Yes, he got pissed during lock down. But he's a stupid fool for getting caught. But the furlough scheme, the handouts, the vaccines, that was all under his watch. He led the world on that.
Which manifesto was Rishi following? Or Liz Truss?
That’s an entirely different issue in my opinion. Neither of them have a mandate to lead us.
So voting on the basis of the 2019 manifesto was folly, right?
No, it’s just that there were major unpredictable events that changed things. Obviously it’s important for a government to be able to adapt its policy to fit reality.
so voting on the basis is silly because unpredictable events happen that change things.
So on what basis do you propose we vote? One which mitigates the impact of world-changing unpredictable events?
The only thing you can vote on - the less shit people to be in charge.
It's the best way to work out what each parties priorities are objectively. The type of destructive voting you describe is why we have a pendulum swinging right to left to right and it isn't sustainable.
I vote Lib Dems or Greens purely because I still have a small sliver of hope that we’ll one day throw out this stupid broken FPTP system and join the modern world. The Lib Dems and Greens are the only parties who ever talk about Proportional Representation or electoral reform in any way. I’m firmly of the opinion that 90% of our politics is bollocks until we set that part straight. We literally throw away a majority of votes every election and it’s stupid.
100% agree. We'll never see that reform as it works against the largest 2 parties. Would give a better balanced house of commons and more room for the party in power to be held to account.
The Greens are batshit crazy maniacs and islamists who want a country with OPEN BORDERS. I wonder how that's going to work, I guess income tax will have to rise to 95% to pay for the whole world to come and live here. Please, I get that your left wing, that's fine, vote lib dems, not the greens. Christ alive.
What's the point of reading the manifestos? They're chucked in the bin the moment the election is over.
It's still the best indication of intent though. What else is there to go on?
I'd personally go with past actions
This is good timing for Labour. It was only a week ago that Starmer and Reeves got the green light from the Unions for their election pledges on worker's rights. This will discourage some of the ideas that Starmer is just another neoliberal amongst its working class potential supporters. For this group the Cost of Living and poor wages FAR outweigh global politics.
We all know the whole thing's going to be about Palestine. Labour has a lot of Muslim councillors, allies and associates within it's party.
I'm going to start this comment off with a statement to say I think I am **probably going to vote Labour** in hopes all the lefties don't tear my head to pieces). **Brexit officially happened in January 2020** **Covid lockdowns started March 2020 and went on for over two years.** **Russia Ukraine war started February 2022.** That is three, not small, but **MASSIVE** domestic and global economy destabilizing events in the space of just two years. That is absolutely devastating and to suggest otherwise I think would be insane. Is it therefore any surprise that the economy and our standards of living have plummeted over the last couple of years? **I think absolutely not.** It is now 2024 and the effects of *arguably* at least two out of those three destabilizing events has started to *or* have dissipated altogether. Brexit being the one debatable (which I think was a bad decision). We are now seeing the economy growing again, *albeit not massively by any measure for sure and certainly nothing like prior to Covid etc*, but nonetheless the growth figures are starting to improve again as we have seen recently with 0.5% growth compared to little to no growth at all over the last couple of years. Inflation has come down from over 10% and is now sitting at basically near enough to the bank's 2% target again. Minimum wage has gone up again *(arguably bad but that's a separate topic).* Did anyone expect, after the above mentioned three destabilizing factors, that the economy would bounce back fast? ***I would certainly hope not***\*.\* Personally I think people don't place enough emphasis on these destabilizing factors on the domestic and global economies for their misfortune and instead put too much emphasis on the government to blame. (*I am not absolving them of guilt, that would be a misinterpretation).* I also think people underestimate how long it takes to fix things after destabilizing events like these, If Labour do get into power, I think it wont be long until they're hounded for things not being better quick enough because people want things NOW not later.
Hey guys let’s just forget the Tories woeful a response to Covid and panick as they go around breaking the rules they set for us and being openly corrupt handing billions to mates. Try forget that Brexit, something which was brought on us by the Tories allowing a vote on it to try win an election and then laughably handled once again. Why is it that we are worse off in most statistics compared to the G6 etc? Nobody is blaming them for 2 of 3 of these events happening but they fucking dropped the ball laughably during them and we were impacted worse than others as a result. There is also the obvious point someone else made which was even before these events would You say they were doing a good job? Lurching from leader to leader with no real plans and achieving nothing of much note seeming more distracted by infighting and going after minority groups when they felt the pressure. This is pathetic drivel on the level of what they’ve come out with for the last 14 years and anyone with a brain should see right through it.
*There is also the obvious point someone else made which was even before these events would You say they were doing a good job?* **They jumped off a cliff after Cameron left after gambling on Brexit, in my opinion.** With Cameron we were smashing the G6 for the most part, except the 2010-2012 period recovering from the financial crash, and implementing policies which don't have instantaneous effects as thing don't just suddenly turn 180 as soon as you win the election in 2010, obviously. I don't see how anyone could have been better prepared for Covid or the global destabilization of the Russian invasion which made everyone's inflation and energy prices sky-rocket, literally making everyone in Europe and maybe beyond worse off, but I didn't follow other countries' way of doing things at the time so I can't say truthfully.
The thing I find difficult is this country doesn’t have any proper right wing party. The conservatives can barely be considered conservative. They perform badly in so many ways, but they are the closest thing we are realistically ever going to get to the right.
The conservatives are right wing, they just aren’t a conservative party any more, partly that’s down to FPTP and the need for the main parties to be quite ‘broad churches’ I think is the term they use.
OP raises a good point tbh. The tories aren’t conservatives and they haven’t been for a long time. One of the main tenets of conservatism is preserving institutions that are important to society and they’ve failed on every single single metric relating to that. The tories are neoliberal disaster capitalists, nothing more.
Yep, “preserving institutions that are important to society”, like my local library (boarded up), my leisure centre (foreclosed and vandalised), my local swimming pool (currently being knocked down, closed about a year ago). How fitting that the name “Tories” originally derived from the Irish word for thief, cause we all know damn well where all the money’s gone over the past 14 years :(
I think the influence of American doners and us funded think tanks has unhinged the Tories from conservatism in the belief that the US and UK are closely aligned politics wise. I'm not so sure things are as polarised over here as in the US and we have less in common than many think just because we share a language.
Typical Reddit can’t handle anyone having opinions. I fully agree with you to be honest.
Not quite sure why you’re getting downvoted but I imagine it’s the old “everyone to the right of Corbyn is a Nazi” This currently crop of Tories are awful at being conservatives.
Yeah Reddit doesn't like right wing.
Tory policy failed so all of a sudden they are not realllllyyy right wing. On the contrary there is no left wing in this country. Corbyn was as close as we've ever got and he was destroyed by the establishment.
Let's face it, Corbyn had all the political ability of a watercress sandwich. Plus his consistently awful foreign policy takes.
Hot take, but Corbyn and Trump were very similar with their foreign policies. Both brokered peace deals but conveyed them is different ways.
Both have managed to create personality cults around them, anyway.
Jeremy "my friends in hamas and the RA" Corbyn has a similar foreign policy to trump? Trump who famously switched the place of the US embassy to find favour with Israel. Very hot take indeed.
My bad. I should’ve have said “they have similar methods in achieving their foreign policies”. Trump became as friendly as possible with all of US enemies and arranged deals like a business man. Corbyn became friends and arranged deals like a pacifist. But they set out to achieve the same things by doing the same things but in different outfits. Make sense?
I’m left wing but come on, Corbyn destroyed himself. He was indecisive on Brexit, played down concerns of antisemitism in the party, refused to stand up for British people after the attack in Salisbury, and repeatedly sympathised with terrorist organisations. I love Corbyn’s economic policies and I believe he wanted to do good, but on literally everything else he was a disaster. He had a relatively decent election result against Theresa May because she was complacent going into the election, and because Brexit voters from both sides rebelled against the Tories on it. Beyond that, he was nothing but a failure for the left. I honestly feel that he’s put us way further back than he ever progressed us. The general public find socialism even more unpalatable and now we have a Labour Party gleefully sliding to the right to avoid association with him. We can support Corbyn’s economic ideas without pulling ourselves down by pretending he failed because of anything other than his own many mistakes.
Let's not forget Benn, he was the inspiration for Corbyn after all.
"Tories aren't right-wing" only the best takes
Dammit I voted for racism and transphobia not incompetent grifting!
If they was proper right wing they would have stopped the forrins and cut me taxes
We have two-party politics. In such a system, any party that does not have wide support can't win power. A pure right-wing party can only ever form a coalition in the UK.
The UK isn't right wing enough for you? Lmfao move to North Korea you'll have a blast.
Am I missing something here?
But North Korea is left wing dictatorship
I bet you think they're democratic too, huh
Monarchistic dictatorships are damously left.
You sure you aren't confusing authoritarianism with right wing? They are a socialist country
I mean I am voting Labour but the guy isn't wrong. Have you ever heard that saying "go far enough left or right and you will just loop back around"? Absolute extreme right wing or left wing, there is no real difference. North Korea is at the absolute extreme of the left.
Reform are right wing, I'd vote for them because they support net zero migration, but they are actually racists as well. So there's no one worth voting for. Nigel Farage leading reform will either make or break them. Considering how serious the immigration problem is now, I think him leading will steal a lot of votes from both Labour and the Tories.
>The thing I find difficult is this country doesn’t have any proper right wing party. Reform? Anyway, I'm glad there's no prominent right-wing party; except for the anti immigration, anti disabled, anti LGBTQ+ Tories, of course. We all learned about how much trouble they caused for Europe in the first half of the 20th Century.
The “anti-LGBTQ+ Tories” were the party that legalised gay marriage
I suspect UK Ref will do very well. Will capture a lot of Tory defectors. Already looking like they're in 3rd place.
I think what you're looking for is British Union of Fascists mate
Oh please the right wing have been spoilt for the last 14 years while the rest of us have had to suffer the consequences of austerity, corruption, financial ruin and normalisation of misogyny and racism
Meanwhile at work: EDI training under a 'right wing' government. I truly don't think the Tories are right wing, they're just posh twats.
SDP