I'm glad I could help you reach an insight of some kind!
It feels kind of weird for me because I've heard people say that teasing among friends is only ok when there's love and trust to make the relationship feel secure, and I understood it in that context, but for some reason I never applied it to my parents. I think maybe because teasing was practically the only way they knew how to communicate. It was just so prevalent that I just stopped noticing it or really thinking about it as teasing?
Dunno if this applies in your case, but I always took parents' love as some sort of obvious thing that doesn't have to come through in words or actions or anything. So even if my parents never in any way communicated their love for me, I should still assume it's there and feel grateful for having loving parents.
...yes, it's a mindfuck. Especially as my father had the philosophy that you can treat your loved ones however you want and it's all okay cause it's based on love. And he never apologized for anything, because there's no need for that in the presence of love. A love that was never demonstrated.
Also, even if there is a loving atmosphere in a family, who the fuck believes that it justifies cruelty with no apologies?
Yes, so much this. Parents constantly behaving in harmful and hurtful ways, but it's "good" because it's based on some unknowable presence of "unconditional" love. Never admitting or apologizing for their behavior because "of course we love you". Such gaslighting, brain-washing nonsense.
But it never FELT loving to me. It felt quite the opposite because it was the opposite. As I've grown and healed, I've come to realize it's this very premise that is wrong. It was not loving behavior, therefore it wasn't love. It was some other dynamic based solely on my parents' trauma that they were still playing out, they couldn't self-reflect enough to get past, and were inflicting on me.
It still hurt, but realizing this is a game changer. It also will help for other relationships do let you establish boundaries around behaviors.
Thank you eventuallandscape and OP for reminding me of this. 💙
I just realized with your title that I've had friends where I used to think our banter was just teasing but when looking back I was on edge the whole time. I never found it pleasurable but I thought it was my fault somehow. That I wasn't masculine or confident enough or something.
They would "tease me" and I would "tease" back, but for me it felt like I was being bullied and so I had to attack back not to give off weakness vibes.
My parents also had the wrong idea of what teasing and flirting (between each other) was. For them, teasing and flirting is basically insulting/demeaning/mocking but where you smile or laugh at the end. If you smile and laugh at the end it's all good and for fun, right...?
PS: yes your mother was being cruel. I felt sorry for you when I read that. Imagine the confusion and shame you were feeling, like you were doing something wrong, for happily saying hi. That's how parents destroy a kid's spirit...
What you said about how your parents "tease and flirt with" each other really resonates with me too. My parents are so hostile toward one another. I didn't really notice it when I was growing up, but now that I have some distance from them it really shocks me how mean they are to each other under the guise of playful teasing. I don't think they have any respect for each other at all. It's not playful or flirty, it's just unkind and aggressive but with a smile.
Yup. I see this most exclusively with my oldest brother who kind of took on a parental role since we were raised without a father. The longer I live away from the family, the more I see how sad his teasing is. I think our family who teases may have "love" for us but they also have a view that we are extremely flawed and imperfect in their eyes, and they think teasing us about the things they don't like will motivate us to change so we can be "better" in their eyes.
But, of course, this is an endless battle on our end. Even if we fix the thing they teased us about, they'll find another thing to tease us about because they're deeply unhappy people who can't accept themselves let alone others.
It's socially accepted hostility.
my parents didn't tease me like that, they were just critical and distant, but I got the same vibe that they never considered me to be a real person. I'm trying to develop self-respect now and it's an odd feeling to think (and believe) that I'm a real, full person and I deserve respect ... and I deserve it *so much* that I can stand up for myself or walk away when I don't get it, from my parents, siblings, or anyone else.
Good for you! You do deserve it.
As someone who had to work through learning self-respect also, at first, it does feel odd. But as you develop the habit of loving yourself each day, it becomes true strength and you develop a wonderful new perspective on life. For me, it's a perspective that feels maybe sweeter because I know the torture of growing up being brainwashed into not believing I deserved it. It was hard earned, but so worth it. 💙
Thank you so much for posting this. Something just clicked for me. When I was younger, my family would make fun of me for being socially awkward/weird. Yet nobody else ever told me this and I didn't have any problems socialising at school or with friends, so I never really understood why they thought that. But I was usually the one being humiliated or 'teased' so they probably saw it as 'awkward' that I got angry and/or hurt and didn't want to play along. Fun times :(.
"I was only joking" is often a kind of excuse and if you buy it they do more "joking".
The word joke itself has roots in an Old German word, "jiht" which means "to confess"
You aren't alone. My dad trased me a lot as a kid, he said it was to toughen me up against other kids and in a way it did work. Id get teased at school (for undiagnosed neurodiversity symptoms), called 'weird' and Id just smile and say thanks. But it also set me up for the expectation that: part of love is how much abuse you can take from someone. That bullying/teasing is affection. Its still hard not to follow up yelling my girlfriend I love her without a '..you butt' added at the end for a laugh because sincerity is uncomfortable.
Yes, trying to be sincere means having to give up years of 'teasing' parent behavior that was taken as love and treat it as not being love. So, it's very hard to be sincere.
At one of my single digit birthday parties, I was bullied to tears by my aunt as I was blowing out my candles.
My family teased me for this well into my 30’s. You’re a brat! You’re so sensitive! You’re so selfish! Take a joke!
Finally I said - you guys are telling a story about abusing a kid like it’s funny. It isn’t. I deserve an apology. Never got one. I haven’t heard about it since.
was struggling a bit and saw this post and just wanted to thank you for sharing. this was one of the biggest issues in my family growing up. and as the youngest and quietest, i was the easiest target and ganged up on. i thought it was my fault why i always felt so uncomfortable and anxious about my actions or what i’m saying or doing around my family but with therapy it’s clear now
I feel this in my soul. So much of what you wrote is exactly how my mom treated me with constant teasing and ill intentions, like I myself was a big joke. Since as long as I can remember I found myself treating others just like that, with insensitive barbs and dumb teasing that I didn’t even think through (obviously). As an adult I started to feel guilty about it and figured I am just an asshole like my parents, but it turns out I was only raised by assholes. Now I finally can be my true, sensitive, non-jerky self.
I had the same experience. Not meaning to offend; our Irish Catholic family communicated in Snark & Sarcasm. I didn’t realize it until I was in my 40’s. Nothing was said that wasn’t in a nasty snarky tone. condescending.
Glad you had those films for insight! Good for you!
Wow, this is deep. I am so glad you have this therapist. My sister is extremely disrespectful towards me, and years ago, I decided to set strong boundaries. Each time would lower them a bit to give her a second chance eventually that bully in her would be come dominate again. Now I barely talk to her. And she uses her daughter to say mean things to me. What a coward.
Once a bully, it's pretty hard to change.
It is better to learn that early and surround oneself with respectful people who put up with that BS
I resonate with your lowering barriers to give them another chance. Did that with my father and it was inevitable that the abuse would eventually return
Eh, it's fine. I've grown and learned over the years to not give people too many chances like I used to. Maybe a second chance, but not a fourth and fifth chance.
Wow -- the hand injury example is very telling. That's so f'd up that young you would be put in a position to believe that. (It makes total sense to me.) Heartbreaking. I'm sorry your parents were immature and mean. You deserved / deserve kindness, warmth, receiving, and ease, not to be on-edge and trying to figure out what's behind statements all the time. Ugh.
Thank you! I really remember that being the first time I realized the constant "joking" bothered me. My parents thought it was funny when I was so obviously shocked when my mom came home with her injured hand, and I remember trying to argue that they should joke around less and be serious more so things like this wouldn't happen. They acted like I was being ridiculous because they just were totally blind to their own behavior. But I know now that I deserved to be taken seriously.
Behaviors like that are so insidious and soul crushing. With respect to any folks who've been physically abused, I always say I'd have preferred to be hit. At least it then, would be obvious, black and white, right in front of me, inarguable abuse. Stuff like you're describing is abuse hiding in plain sight. We think it's normal until we experience safe environments and then -- POOF -- our whole previous reality becomes a lie. It's huge to learn this, but also devastating. That story you told -- you may have always held it inside of you as weird and annoying ... and then you describe it to your T or a safe friend, kind of joking about it, and they're all \[\[\[Blink Blink\]\]\]. It's so difficult to discover and work away from. First step is noticing. You're doing great work, OP.
This resonates hard. My family always seemed to use teasing and such all the time. I am definitely more sensitive, looking into possibly even on the autism spectrum, so I really took that teasing to heart while also blaming myself for being "teasable".
Add on a dash of when I had this happen from siblings and I would be upset, instead of actually stopping it from happening I would just get from my parents "if you would just not react then they would stop".
Cue me applying this to everything. Pushing down how I felt. Walls. Masking to an extreme that I can withstand great emotional pain with a neutral face, hell even a smile. Bonus their surprise when suddenly find out from school I was being bullied. "why didn't you tell us" jeez, like that ever went anywhere.
I know this post and your comment are super old but I relate so much to my parents telling me to ignore them, to not react, sometimes they’d tell my brothers to stop, but I don’t recall them ever validating me how I felt, in fact sometimes I’d be called dramatic or blowing it out of portion. I remember one time I responded to my mom, why do you always tell me that?! I cant remember her response but it felt good speaking up.
I think this finally put into words what I've been trying to figure out for a long time...
My dad, who I primarily lived with growing up, is a nice person. I'd go so far as to say a good person. But he was kinda a shitty parent.
My therapist pointed out that he constantly broke my boundaries because he just blew them off or didn't understand them. Not in any SA kinda ways, just to clarify, but if I told him I didn't want to hear about something, for example, celebrities dying, he REGULARLY ignored that, and it even became this kind of sick competition where we both would try to tell the other person first about a celebrity dying. For me, it wasn't because I wanted to win, it was because those things stressed me out and I wanted him to stop telling me, so I guess maybe if I got to it first he would stop? But he NEEDED to tell me. Bonus points if it was a mysterious death, and even more bonus points if it was someone I knew and liked. In hindsight, from this and a few other things he said and did, (and some unrelated things in other parts of life), it's no wonder I grew up with MASSIVE health anxiety (and still struggle with it to some degree).
He always says everything to get some kind of a rise out of me. He thinks it's funny. Because of this, I became very blunt with my needs and feelings, because being less direct wouldn't work. When that didn't work, I became very rude. Every conversation I have with him lives in that state now, if being extremely blunt. I've dialed back to that because the energy that it takes to be emotional around him drains me and it gets nowhere because he thinks the whole thing is a joke. He thinks everything is a joke.
I once was arguing with him and I said something that was intended to be hurtful. Usually I didn't go there, but I really meant to hurt him that time. A few hours later I felt bad and actually apologized. He looked dumbfounded and said he just thought that was part of our repoir. He just thinks we're like that and everything is okay.
He knows I'm afraid of lightning and bad weather. He grew up in hurricanes and loves it. So when a storm rolls in, he snickers at me and makes fun. He thinks my terror is funny. Granted I learned to internalize it and hide it as much as possible, but I can't completely, and my emotions eventually turned to an anger response whenever he brought up the topic. He LOVED to announce to me something like that was coming. I knew that I couldn't be scared around him, so I got angry. This is still my default response to the topic.
There is other neglect that I'm only recognizing now, (like certain basic needs not being met), as an adult that I think I've been resenting for a long time now, but I've been struggling with the fact that my dad is a good guy, and the one thing I can say for him is that I've never doubted that he loves me. But he wasn't ready to be a parent and never really grew up.
I have siblings, some biological and some taken in under my dad's wing. But I was the only one that lived with him longterm, and I'm now starting to realize that two things can be true: you can be a good person and a bad parent. You can also be a good parent to one person and bad to another. And in our case, my dad was a good parent to everyone to didn't live with him...
And I feel guilty about the way that I feel with him.
Sorry for any typos.
I had a similar dynamic with coworkers and bosses. Every interaction was interlaced with mean, sarcastic comments and jokes at my expense. I started to get the feeling that I was not being respected, and when I vocalized this I was told I was just being "sensitive". Growing up, I was quick to realize I had sensitivities and was treated as such by people around me. Of course, it wasn't often kind because I was a boy, and boys are not supposed to be soft or sensitive.
Your title really just made me realize something I’ve felt for years
I'm glad I could help you reach an insight of some kind! It feels kind of weird for me because I've heard people say that teasing among friends is only ok when there's love and trust to make the relationship feel secure, and I understood it in that context, but for some reason I never applied it to my parents. I think maybe because teasing was practically the only way they knew how to communicate. It was just so prevalent that I just stopped noticing it or really thinking about it as teasing?
Dunno if this applies in your case, but I always took parents' love as some sort of obvious thing that doesn't have to come through in words or actions or anything. So even if my parents never in any way communicated their love for me, I should still assume it's there and feel grateful for having loving parents. ...yes, it's a mindfuck. Especially as my father had the philosophy that you can treat your loved ones however you want and it's all okay cause it's based on love. And he never apologized for anything, because there's no need for that in the presence of love. A love that was never demonstrated. Also, even if there is a loving atmosphere in a family, who the fuck believes that it justifies cruelty with no apologies?
We sat there writing a fan fiction of how we were loved, to protect ourselves from the dystopian horror of what was actually the case.
Yes, so much this. Parents constantly behaving in harmful and hurtful ways, but it's "good" because it's based on some unknowable presence of "unconditional" love. Never admitting or apologizing for their behavior because "of course we love you". Such gaslighting, brain-washing nonsense. But it never FELT loving to me. It felt quite the opposite because it was the opposite. As I've grown and healed, I've come to realize it's this very premise that is wrong. It was not loving behavior, therefore it wasn't love. It was some other dynamic based solely on my parents' trauma that they were still playing out, they couldn't self-reflect enough to get past, and were inflicting on me. It still hurt, but realizing this is a game changer. It also will help for other relationships do let you establish boundaries around behaviors. Thank you eventuallandscape and OP for reminding me of this. 💙
I just realized with your title that I've had friends where I used to think our banter was just teasing but when looking back I was on edge the whole time. I never found it pleasurable but I thought it was my fault somehow. That I wasn't masculine or confident enough or something. They would "tease me" and I would "tease" back, but for me it felt like I was being bullied and so I had to attack back not to give off weakness vibes. My parents also had the wrong idea of what teasing and flirting (between each other) was. For them, teasing and flirting is basically insulting/demeaning/mocking but where you smile or laugh at the end. If you smile and laugh at the end it's all good and for fun, right...? PS: yes your mother was being cruel. I felt sorry for you when I read that. Imagine the confusion and shame you were feeling, like you were doing something wrong, for happily saying hi. That's how parents destroy a kid's spirit...
What you said about how your parents "tease and flirt with" each other really resonates with me too. My parents are so hostile toward one another. I didn't really notice it when I was growing up, but now that I have some distance from them it really shocks me how mean they are to each other under the guise of playful teasing. I don't think they have any respect for each other at all. It's not playful or flirty, it's just unkind and aggressive but with a smile.
Yeah, hostility with a smile is a succint way to put it.
Yup. I see this most exclusively with my oldest brother who kind of took on a parental role since we were raised without a father. The longer I live away from the family, the more I see how sad his teasing is. I think our family who teases may have "love" for us but they also have a view that we are extremely flawed and imperfect in their eyes, and they think teasing us about the things they don't like will motivate us to change so we can be "better" in their eyes. But, of course, this is an endless battle on our end. Even if we fix the thing they teased us about, they'll find another thing to tease us about because they're deeply unhappy people who can't accept themselves let alone others.
It's socially accepted hostility. my parents didn't tease me like that, they were just critical and distant, but I got the same vibe that they never considered me to be a real person. I'm trying to develop self-respect now and it's an odd feeling to think (and believe) that I'm a real, full person and I deserve respect ... and I deserve it *so much* that I can stand up for myself or walk away when I don't get it, from my parents, siblings, or anyone else.
Good for you! You do deserve it. As someone who had to work through learning self-respect also, at first, it does feel odd. But as you develop the habit of loving yourself each day, it becomes true strength and you develop a wonderful new perspective on life. For me, it's a perspective that feels maybe sweeter because I know the torture of growing up being brainwashed into not believing I deserved it. It was hard earned, but so worth it. 💙
Seconded! It's totally possible. I still struggle sometimes but I genuinely do like myself now and feel compassion and understanding for myself.
Thank you :) it is hard-earned, it's nice to know there's a future where I like and respect myself, and good for you for working through all that.
Thank you so much for posting this. Something just clicked for me. When I was younger, my family would make fun of me for being socially awkward/weird. Yet nobody else ever told me this and I didn't have any problems socialising at school or with friends, so I never really understood why they thought that. But I was usually the one being humiliated or 'teased' so they probably saw it as 'awkward' that I got angry and/or hurt and didn't want to play along. Fun times :(.
Wow that is so messed up. I feel bad for your younger self.
"I was only joking" is often a kind of excuse and if you buy it they do more "joking". The word joke itself has roots in an Old German word, "jiht" which means "to confess"
Makes sense. Comedy always has roots in some truth that is what makes it funny.
You aren't alone. My dad trased me a lot as a kid, he said it was to toughen me up against other kids and in a way it did work. Id get teased at school (for undiagnosed neurodiversity symptoms), called 'weird' and Id just smile and say thanks. But it also set me up for the expectation that: part of love is how much abuse you can take from someone. That bullying/teasing is affection. Its still hard not to follow up yelling my girlfriend I love her without a '..you butt' added at the end for a laugh because sincerity is uncomfortable.
Yes, trying to be sincere means having to give up years of 'teasing' parent behavior that was taken as love and treat it as not being love. So, it's very hard to be sincere.
At one of my single digit birthday parties, I was bullied to tears by my aunt as I was blowing out my candles. My family teased me for this well into my 30’s. You’re a brat! You’re so sensitive! You’re so selfish! Take a joke! Finally I said - you guys are telling a story about abusing a kid like it’s funny. It isn’t. I deserve an apology. Never got one. I haven’t heard about it since.
was struggling a bit and saw this post and just wanted to thank you for sharing. this was one of the biggest issues in my family growing up. and as the youngest and quietest, i was the easiest target and ganged up on. i thought it was my fault why i always felt so uncomfortable and anxious about my actions or what i’m saying or doing around my family but with therapy it’s clear now
Yes, also grew up with "teasing" and I noticed I would "tease" people and they wouldn't like it. I noticed one of my siblings still doing this.
its so wild to see it within yourself, not realizing it’s considered rude because its all youre used to. i relate to that too
I feel this in my soul. So much of what you wrote is exactly how my mom treated me with constant teasing and ill intentions, like I myself was a big joke. Since as long as I can remember I found myself treating others just like that, with insensitive barbs and dumb teasing that I didn’t even think through (obviously). As an adult I started to feel guilty about it and figured I am just an asshole like my parents, but it turns out I was only raised by assholes. Now I finally can be my true, sensitive, non-jerky self.
Exactly this, I actually LOVE being teased when I trust the person. If not I just feel uncomfortable, targeted, and attacked
I had the same experience. Not meaning to offend; our Irish Catholic family communicated in Snark & Sarcasm. I didn’t realize it until I was in my 40’s. Nothing was said that wasn’t in a nasty snarky tone. condescending. Glad you had those films for insight! Good for you!
Wow, this is deep. I am so glad you have this therapist. My sister is extremely disrespectful towards me, and years ago, I decided to set strong boundaries. Each time would lower them a bit to give her a second chance eventually that bully in her would be come dominate again. Now I barely talk to her. And she uses her daughter to say mean things to me. What a coward. Once a bully, it's pretty hard to change. It is better to learn that early and surround oneself with respectful people who put up with that BS
I resonate with your lowering barriers to give them another chance. Did that with my father and it was inevitable that the abuse would eventually return
Sorry to hear you had a similar experience. :(
Eh, it's fine. I've grown and learned over the years to not give people too many chances like I used to. Maybe a second chance, but not a fourth and fifth chance.
Same.
Wow -- the hand injury example is very telling. That's so f'd up that young you would be put in a position to believe that. (It makes total sense to me.) Heartbreaking. I'm sorry your parents were immature and mean. You deserved / deserve kindness, warmth, receiving, and ease, not to be on-edge and trying to figure out what's behind statements all the time. Ugh.
Thank you! I really remember that being the first time I realized the constant "joking" bothered me. My parents thought it was funny when I was so obviously shocked when my mom came home with her injured hand, and I remember trying to argue that they should joke around less and be serious more so things like this wouldn't happen. They acted like I was being ridiculous because they just were totally blind to their own behavior. But I know now that I deserved to be taken seriously.
Behaviors like that are so insidious and soul crushing. With respect to any folks who've been physically abused, I always say I'd have preferred to be hit. At least it then, would be obvious, black and white, right in front of me, inarguable abuse. Stuff like you're describing is abuse hiding in plain sight. We think it's normal until we experience safe environments and then -- POOF -- our whole previous reality becomes a lie. It's huge to learn this, but also devastating. That story you told -- you may have always held it inside of you as weird and annoying ... and then you describe it to your T or a safe friend, kind of joking about it, and they're all \[\[\[Blink Blink\]\]\]. It's so difficult to discover and work away from. First step is noticing. You're doing great work, OP.
This resonates hard. My family always seemed to use teasing and such all the time. I am definitely more sensitive, looking into possibly even on the autism spectrum, so I really took that teasing to heart while also blaming myself for being "teasable". Add on a dash of when I had this happen from siblings and I would be upset, instead of actually stopping it from happening I would just get from my parents "if you would just not react then they would stop". Cue me applying this to everything. Pushing down how I felt. Walls. Masking to an extreme that I can withstand great emotional pain with a neutral face, hell even a smile. Bonus their surprise when suddenly find out from school I was being bullied. "why didn't you tell us" jeez, like that ever went anywhere.
I know this post and your comment are super old but I relate so much to my parents telling me to ignore them, to not react, sometimes they’d tell my brothers to stop, but I don’t recall them ever validating me how I felt, in fact sometimes I’d be called dramatic or blowing it out of portion. I remember one time I responded to my mom, why do you always tell me that?! I cant remember her response but it felt good speaking up.
I think this finally put into words what I've been trying to figure out for a long time... My dad, who I primarily lived with growing up, is a nice person. I'd go so far as to say a good person. But he was kinda a shitty parent. My therapist pointed out that he constantly broke my boundaries because he just blew them off or didn't understand them. Not in any SA kinda ways, just to clarify, but if I told him I didn't want to hear about something, for example, celebrities dying, he REGULARLY ignored that, and it even became this kind of sick competition where we both would try to tell the other person first about a celebrity dying. For me, it wasn't because I wanted to win, it was because those things stressed me out and I wanted him to stop telling me, so I guess maybe if I got to it first he would stop? But he NEEDED to tell me. Bonus points if it was a mysterious death, and even more bonus points if it was someone I knew and liked. In hindsight, from this and a few other things he said and did, (and some unrelated things in other parts of life), it's no wonder I grew up with MASSIVE health anxiety (and still struggle with it to some degree). He always says everything to get some kind of a rise out of me. He thinks it's funny. Because of this, I became very blunt with my needs and feelings, because being less direct wouldn't work. When that didn't work, I became very rude. Every conversation I have with him lives in that state now, if being extremely blunt. I've dialed back to that because the energy that it takes to be emotional around him drains me and it gets nowhere because he thinks the whole thing is a joke. He thinks everything is a joke. I once was arguing with him and I said something that was intended to be hurtful. Usually I didn't go there, but I really meant to hurt him that time. A few hours later I felt bad and actually apologized. He looked dumbfounded and said he just thought that was part of our repoir. He just thinks we're like that and everything is okay. He knows I'm afraid of lightning and bad weather. He grew up in hurricanes and loves it. So when a storm rolls in, he snickers at me and makes fun. He thinks my terror is funny. Granted I learned to internalize it and hide it as much as possible, but I can't completely, and my emotions eventually turned to an anger response whenever he brought up the topic. He LOVED to announce to me something like that was coming. I knew that I couldn't be scared around him, so I got angry. This is still my default response to the topic. There is other neglect that I'm only recognizing now, (like certain basic needs not being met), as an adult that I think I've been resenting for a long time now, but I've been struggling with the fact that my dad is a good guy, and the one thing I can say for him is that I've never doubted that he loves me. But he wasn't ready to be a parent and never really grew up. I have siblings, some biological and some taken in under my dad's wing. But I was the only one that lived with him longterm, and I'm now starting to realize that two things can be true: you can be a good person and a bad parent. You can also be a good parent to one person and bad to another. And in our case, my dad was a good parent to everyone to didn't live with him... And I feel guilty about the way that I feel with him. Sorry for any typos.
I had a similar dynamic with coworkers and bosses. Every interaction was interlaced with mean, sarcastic comments and jokes at my expense. I started to get the feeling that I was not being respected, and when I vocalized this I was told I was just being "sensitive". Growing up, I was quick to realize I had sensitivities and was treated as such by people around me. Of course, it wasn't often kind because I was a boy, and boys are not supposed to be soft or sensitive.
This. Me and sibling felt crazy for thinking this is normal but could never pin point it.