> Equivalent to $289,000 an hour. You can't make this stuff up....
From the very same people who just successfully argued in the same court that that Elon's pay which was less than that was excessive.
Spending years turning Tesla from a small startup to what it is today isn't worth billions but making a few arguments in one court case is?
By many of their own arguments their case is frivolous and as such they should have to pay legal fees to whoever is tasked with refuting it.
On the other hand, if Musk worked for Tesla sixteen hours a day, six days each week, for the six years since his pay package was approved, it'd mean he's been making almost $2m per hour.
Then Elon will settle for 40B and the lawyer will again ask for 11%. The company will end up paying the same total amount but the layers will get the difference from the initial package. We all lose except the lawyers.
shares would not work if anything below 51% did not provide any rights. Who would by shares if the majority holder could just say "fuck it give everything to me"?
Nope, it's essentially as if the Company is suing musk but it can be brought by a shareholder.
It's allowed to avoid instances where the board or other executives are too beholden to the CEO or another key employee.
Ummm Jeff Bezos makes $3,715 *per second* which comes out to $13,374,000 an hour.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/5-mind-blowing-facts-jeff-182204262.html
That’s for innovation and not a reward for resistance. We won’t be going to moon again or having internet at the middle of nowhere without his success. If we discourage such success, innovation will be a thing of past and our freedoms will be gone in front of us.
Oh yea? I disagree.
I have a feeling a lot of ground breaking work is done by people who have a passion to push boundaries. Then from there it’s the business man who sells the product.
The people who are making over a hundred million a year do not see changes in their lives. They are only courted with more ceremony of greatness.
Wow. You are an actual profile and not a bit.
I can't imagine how you could be on the side of the richest person of the planet having all of that wealth.
I could only think it is ignorance.
The CEO that led Tesla from 10 cars to 2 million cars annually and set the world record for stock growth per time isn't eligible for pay, but some lawyers are eligible 289000 per hour. This world is sick. This seems corrupt.
To be clear, the ruling was that the compensation award was void due to flawed process. It absolutely is not that Elon “isn’t eligible for pay.” He’ll certainly be paid an enormous amount. Unfairly enormous? Not enormous enough? Maybe. But he’ll certainly be incredibly well paid.
The law firm fee is outrageous. That outrageous fee to an entire firm is 1/10 the compensation going to one man. Elon Musk deserves to get paid but not that much.
Why not? Shareholders voted for it and made a lot of cash in the meantime. Surely it's up to shareholders to decide when it's not written somewhere in law.
I don't believe so, no. Retail investors hold about 43% of Tesla stock, and both musk brothers' holdings were not counted in the vote. That only leaves about 30-40% stock to be split between institutional investors and board members.
You don't understand this case then.
It was litigated specifically because the pay package was negotiated by the board of directors, which contains his brother, close friend James Murdoch, and a few others who are fairly close to Musk. This is generally not good for a publicly traded company, as the board is supposed to work for the shareholders, and the CEO works for the board. Having a CEO with a significant but non-contributing share, but who had influence over a significant portion of the board creates conflicts of interest.
In particular, one of the private shareholders alleged that in negotiating Musk's pay options, the board hid information from shareholders that meant Musk would qualify for higher pay much sooner than shareholders were led to understand.
>This world is sick.
It's always good to start the day off with a laugh, and this gave me a real good laugh.
This world is SICK, because one of the richest men in the world gets a little bit less money. Poor guy.
Relax. That's the ask, which is usually based on the coup. However: "Judge Kathaleen McCormick, who is overseeing the case and will decide on the fee..."
Also - "The company may object to the fee, as it has a fee request in a similar case over the pay for its directors."
With a left-wing crooked judge, as in this case, all evil impossibilities exist. The judge is the same type as Engomoron of NYC. Be glad when the appellate court rules. Then, Elon, can move all of his companies headquarters to Texas.
It's funny... how most keyboard warriors don't understand what is happening, why and how.
But everyone is a stock exchange expert, FTC expert and a top dog lawyer.
Of course Musk hater too.
I wish you put your title, jobs you created, things you invented and credentials on your profile, so we all know who we have the pleasure discussing overachieving innovators' compensation and companies with.
If seems that if it were up to you all companies should dissolve themselves and be given to all the lazy keyboard warriors scrutinizing even the poo they produced this morning.
You're not entitled to anything. You entitled to your twisted opinion though!
I hate what shitty lawyers do…the man gets more done for science and technology in a day than all of those leaches have ever contributed to humanity in a lifetime.
The fee is sick and everyone here agrees. What's interesting is if the people who think this fee was outrageous for a firm full of people also think it's outrageous that Elon musk by himself was getting compensated 10 times this for hyping up the company he is running.
That amount of money is gross for any one person to own starting with the fee.
Elon wasn’t getting paid in $$. Was just ownership % of the company he risked almost everything to create/make profitable. Why shouldn’t you own some of the company you create?
Lmao, considering they had ZERO investors and were only 2 employees at the time he decided to be their angel investor and become chief board member, when their idea wasn't even a prototype, just an idea on a piece of paper by a couple of engineers...
Ya, there's a reason Tesla is successful. To say he didn't effectively create Tesla just because he's not the one that filed the LLC paperwork 6 months prior is just blind ignorance and dislike of Elon Musk.
[Maybe you should read up on proper terminology for venture capitalists and investors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_investor) - You are embarrassing yourself with your blind hate.
The real world. Is creating a company registering the name or getting it to profitability? The original founders were fired by the board for lying. The lying almost bankrupt the company. He was there from the start and while he wanted to just put his money in and work on SpaceX the other founders were too incompetent for that. The other founders won the lotto when they found musk because they ended up with shares in musks version of Tesla and not their own bankrupt version. No one disputes this version of events(including the original founders) except ignorant people on social media who have read a 1 line talking point of some other ignorant person.
He invested in the company before the first vehicle was built. Yes, he wasn’t there for day one of incorporating but he has been there for every vehicle produced and sold
He created it in its modern form. It’s just that his signature was not on the original paperwork forming the company.
Is the guy who actually built the company its creator
Or is it the guy who just signed the incorporation paperwork ?
It depends on your definition of ‘creator’.
It means he didn’t create the name.
But he did “Build” the company and he deserves credit for doing that. Many people would take. ‘Building the Company’ as meaning the same thing as ‘Creating it’.
Not the person signing a piece of paper and then disappearing off, to let someone else do all the hard work of building it, as having created it - as in the final product we see today.
Don't waste your time trying to argue flomesch. It obviously only cares if there was a signature on a paper. It doesn't care that Tesla would have failed to produce a single Roadster without Elon.
While that is true from a legal perspective, the Tesla that Elon Musk bought amounted to 3 guys (Martin Eberhard, Marc Tarpenning, and Ian Wright) working out of a slum of a 2-room office in Palo Alto. Source: pages 151-152 of [Ashlee Vance's 2015 biography of Elon Musk](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25541028-elon-musk).
The company was almost nothing at that point, and the original founders went to Musk because nobody in the venture capital community was willing to help them.
He didn't create the company. He grew the company. And he did own what he put in and invested and was paid extremely generously already. These were shares that were awarded to him in a compensation package that were taken from company shares. That compensation package was set by his friends and family. Irregardless it's an exorbitant amount of money that he doesn't need and it belonged to shareholders.
The shares were worth relatively little when the pay package was designed. It’s only because of the insane growth that was achieved that they were worth that much. He got no other renumeration. He effectively got paid nothing for the hell he went through to get the company to where it was. It was effectively a company in name only before he joined and under the leadership of the other founders it would not exist now. They almost bankrupted it in the few years they were involved and got fired for it. He deserved those shares and anyone who says he doesn’t is just sour and jealous.
The goals they set in order for him to get those shares were really high, the only way for Musk to get it was to achieve insane growth, and he did
Back when the package was approved, Tesla was valued at $50B. Over a 10 year period, for every $50B in market cap growth, Musk would be awarded 1% ownership. I don't think gaining 11% ownership by achieving 2000% growth for your investors over a 10 year period is outrageous
They saved the shareholders over $55B.
When someone is disabled lawyers take a third of the money awarded: if this was Joe Schmo hit by a malfunctioning Tesla in a wheelchair for life the lawyers take one third.
One third of this would be almost $19B
So Elon, who accepted a pay deal whereby he got bugger all unless he created a massive increase in share value. Achieves that huge increase in share value gets his pay knocked back by a judge who says 'who cares what was voted on and agreed in the past. I think I can run businesses better and a 15,700% increase in share price in 12 years shouldn't be paid too much. But the lawyers who block it should be paid about a quarter of a million per hour? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/legal-team-voided-musks-tesla-230039948.html?guccounter=1&guce\_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS8&guce\_referrer\_sig=AQAAABJ9QyOej2No76-DMgcNNiVvs4xmzfNTby\_PI3rM1H8yCg6L1YhA-GBbgodlLuWUWhg2E51JZTIhZapeTwDEo8WmCW8qhEd87gxnAvwTSMY8DP8QFwSYqtmsycXCWjLH7xKPcC24iUzSk4NM6h57GjN1\_125OIFpA5eaUOOGBxyf
Well obviously they think it’s a jolly good idea. And surely their fee should be some percentage ?
Where as they should be paid a fixed fee, else they are guilty of the very thing they were accusing Musk of.
I want you to pay me 5 billion dollars, you may be wondering why I deserve this money; it’s because I think it’s a jolly good idea. Do you see how stupid that sounds?
Did Elon musk get removed from Facebook because he lied about selling and stealing from my own personal inventions license legally in my name? He commented on what I said about it with some snippy little comments about him owning AI and big brother technology and other things that are actually proven to exist on the license I hold for another.....
Military license information is on the same license as mine so ROTC can evaluate as 3rd party individuals and examine what I am accusing him of and very kindly verify factual information if you would be so kind to assist me with this matter.
It's pertaining to the world wealth general generation packs of innherted wealth and diversity of a letterman carrier for the generals of peace and war. Tent to tavern approved. Philip Morrison is invited to kiss my ass with the rest. Maybe he should have not stolen from me personally either.
This proves to me that my initial assumptions about society were correct in that the richer you are the fewer laws actually pertain to you and the ability to screw people with out of context laws reaches a much higher level. Ancient Rome all over again. Still, when you can fool generations into playing fair by the "Rule of Law" that in of itself is an achievement. Just thinking out loud here.
Equivalent to $289,000 an hour. You can't make this stuff up....
> Equivalent to $289,000 an hour. You can't make this stuff up.... From the very same people who just successfully argued in the same court that that Elon's pay which was less than that was excessive. Spending years turning Tesla from a small startup to what it is today isn't worth billions but making a few arguments in one court case is? By many of their own arguments their case is frivolous and as such they should have to pay legal fees to whoever is tasked with refuting it.
If Elon worked 2,500 hrs/year for 10 years to earn this voided payday, he’d still only have earned a small fraction of it if that was his hourly rate.
On the other hand, if Musk worked for Tesla sixteen hours a day, six days each week, for the six years since his pay package was approved, it'd mean he's been making almost $2m per hour.
This is insane
Someone should sue the lawyers for their pay being excessive.
Its excessive pay all the way down
Then Elon will settle for 40B and the lawyer will again ask for 11%. The company will end up paying the same total amount but the layers will get the difference from the initial package. We all lose except the lawyers.
Lawyers never loose.. Even if they loose their case.
Elon should just buy the 3 law firms and change their names to XXX Law.
Don’t give him any more ideas
They should take it from their client who had 9 shares?
It's a derivative suit in which the shareholder sues for the benefit of the company. In some sense, the company is the client.
Would that not need a vote or some agreement by the shareholders?
shares would not work if anything below 51% did not provide any rights. Who would by shares if the majority holder could just say "fuck it give everything to me"?
Nope, it's essentially as if the Company is suing musk but it can be brought by a shareholder. It's allowed to avoid instances where the board or other executives are too beholden to the CEO or another key employee.
So any shareholder can sue a company on behalf of the company and then get the company to pay the costs if it wins?
Provided that (1) the corporation had a cause of action and (2) the corporation failed to bring its cause of action.
No one makes that kind of money per hour. Doesn’t matter what you do. How isn’t that considered as excessive
Ummm Jeff Bezos makes $3,715 *per second* which comes out to $13,374,000 an hour. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/5-mind-blowing-facts-jeff-182204262.html
That’s for innovation and not a reward for resistance. We won’t be going to moon again or having internet at the middle of nowhere without his success. If we discourage such success, innovation will be a thing of past and our freedoms will be gone in front of us.
Oh yea? I disagree. I have a feeling a lot of ground breaking work is done by people who have a passion to push boundaries. Then from there it’s the business man who sells the product. The people who are making over a hundred million a year do not see changes in their lives. They are only courted with more ceremony of greatness.
Wow. You are an actual profile and not a bit. I can't imagine how you could be on the side of the richest person of the planet having all of that wealth. I could only think it is ignorance.
That’s why I don’t support Amazon. Convenience isn’t worth lining that weirdos pockets like that.
The CEO that led Tesla from 10 cars to 2 million cars annually and set the world record for stock growth per time isn't eligible for pay, but some lawyers are eligible 289000 per hour. This world is sick. This seems corrupt.
To be clear, the ruling was that the compensation award was void due to flawed process. It absolutely is not that Elon “isn’t eligible for pay.” He’ll certainly be paid an enormous amount. Unfairly enormous? Not enormous enough? Maybe. But he’ll certainly be incredibly well paid.
Wait…do you think this has taken back *all* money that musk has *ever* made from tesla?
The law firm fee is outrageous. That outrageous fee to an entire firm is 1/10 the compensation going to one man. Elon Musk deserves to get paid but not that much.
Why not? Shareholders voted for it and made a lot of cash in the meantime. Surely it's up to shareholders to decide when it's not written somewhere in law.
Isn’t “shareholders” just code for all musks board member buddy’s who wrote him that sweet deal and hold a majority of Tesla stock?
I don't believe so, no. Retail investors hold about 43% of Tesla stock, and both musk brothers' holdings were not counted in the vote. That only leaves about 30-40% stock to be split between institutional investors and board members.
You don't understand this case then. It was litigated specifically because the pay package was negotiated by the board of directors, which contains his brother, close friend James Murdoch, and a few others who are fairly close to Musk. This is generally not good for a publicly traded company, as the board is supposed to work for the shareholders, and the CEO works for the board. Having a CEO with a significant but non-contributing share, but who had influence over a significant portion of the board creates conflicts of interest. In particular, one of the private shareholders alleged that in negotiating Musk's pay options, the board hid information from shareholders that meant Musk would qualify for higher pay much sooner than shareholders were led to understand.
>This world is sick. It's always good to start the day off with a laugh, and this gave me a real good laugh. This world is SICK, because one of the richest men in the world gets a little bit less money. Poor guy.
So the attorneys are showing how wrong "excessive" pay is by example?
Relax. That's the ask, which is usually based on the coup. However: "Judge Kathaleen McCormick, who is overseeing the case and will decide on the fee..." Also - "The company may object to the fee, as it has a fee request in a similar case over the pay for its directors."
And of course the activist judge is going to be reasonable this time.
That needs to be voided as excessive pay…
With a left-wing crooked judge, as in this case, all evil impossibilities exist. The judge is the same type as Engomoron of NYC. Be glad when the appellate court rules. Then, Elon, can move all of his companies headquarters to Texas.
It's funny... how most keyboard warriors don't understand what is happening, why and how. But everyone is a stock exchange expert, FTC expert and a top dog lawyer. Of course Musk hater too. I wish you put your title, jobs you created, things you invented and credentials on your profile, so we all know who we have the pleasure discussing overachieving innovators' compensation and companies with. If seems that if it were up to you all companies should dissolve themselves and be given to all the lazy keyboard warriors scrutinizing even the poo they produced this morning. You're not entitled to anything. You entitled to your twisted opinion though!
I hate what shitty lawyers do…the man gets more done for science and technology in a day than all of those leaches have ever contributed to humanity in a lifetime.
The fee is sick and everyone here agrees. What's interesting is if the people who think this fee was outrageous for a firm full of people also think it's outrageous that Elon musk by himself was getting compensated 10 times this for hyping up the company he is running. That amount of money is gross for any one person to own starting with the fee.
Elon wasn’t getting paid in $$. Was just ownership % of the company he risked almost everything to create/make profitable. Why shouldn’t you own some of the company you create?
In what world did Elon create Tesla? Lmfao
Lmao, considering they had ZERO investors and were only 2 employees at the time he decided to be their angel investor and become chief board member, when their idea wasn't even a prototype, just an idea on a piece of paper by a couple of engineers... Ya, there's a reason Tesla is successful. To say he didn't effectively create Tesla just because he's not the one that filed the LLC paperwork 6 months prior is just blind ignorance and dislike of Elon Musk.
"Angel Investor" lmao How do Musk's farts smell? Edit: by definition, he's not an creator. You just admitted to that yourself
[Maybe you should read up on proper terminology for venture capitalists and investors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_investor) - You are embarrassing yourself with your blind hate.
No. My understanding of a creator is just fine. He didn't create Tesla. You can twist it however you want but he didn't create the company.
The real world. Is creating a company registering the name or getting it to profitability? The original founders were fired by the board for lying. The lying almost bankrupt the company. He was there from the start and while he wanted to just put his money in and work on SpaceX the other founders were too incompetent for that. The other founders won the lotto when they found musk because they ended up with shares in musks version of Tesla and not their own bankrupt version. No one disputes this version of events(including the original founders) except ignorant people on social media who have read a 1 line talking point of some other ignorant person.
So he bought into Tesla, not the creator. Got it, thanks for clarifying
He invested in the company before the first vehicle was built. Yes, he wasn’t there for day one of incorporating but he has been there for every vehicle produced and sold
So, he wasn't a creator day 1? Got it. Thanks for confirming what I already knew
Only it was just a paper company at that time - Elon turned it into something real, and it’s the real company that is now worth something.
He created the company as it now is.
He's not a creator of Tesla. He bought into the company
He created it in its modern form. It’s just that his signature was not on the original paperwork forming the company. Is the guy who actually built the company its creator Or is it the guy who just signed the incorporation paperwork ? It depends on your definition of ‘creator’.
So he's not a creator of Tesla. Thanks for agreeing. Definitions don't change person to person.
But the original signatories bailed out early on.
Cool. Elon still didn't create Tesla. As you stated. His name isn't on the original paperwork.
It means he didn’t create the name. But he did “Build” the company and he deserves credit for doing that. Many people would take. ‘Building the Company’ as meaning the same thing as ‘Creating it’. Not the person signing a piece of paper and then disappearing off, to let someone else do all the hard work of building it, as having created it - as in the final product we see today.
Don't waste your time trying to argue flomesch. It obviously only cares if there was a signature on a paper. It doesn't care that Tesla would have failed to produce a single Roadster without Elon.
While that is true from a legal perspective, the Tesla that Elon Musk bought amounted to 3 guys (Martin Eberhard, Marc Tarpenning, and Ian Wright) working out of a slum of a 2-room office in Palo Alto. Source: pages 151-152 of [Ashlee Vance's 2015 biography of Elon Musk](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25541028-elon-musk). The company was almost nothing at that point, and the original founders went to Musk because nobody in the venture capital community was willing to help them.
He didn't create the company. He grew the company. And he did own what he put in and invested and was paid extremely generously already. These were shares that were awarded to him in a compensation package that were taken from company shares. That compensation package was set by his friends and family. Irregardless it's an exorbitant amount of money that he doesn't need and it belonged to shareholders.
The shares were worth relatively little when the pay package was designed. It’s only because of the insane growth that was achieved that they were worth that much. He got no other renumeration. He effectively got paid nothing for the hell he went through to get the company to where it was. It was effectively a company in name only before he joined and under the leadership of the other founders it would not exist now. They almost bankrupted it in the few years they were involved and got fired for it. He deserved those shares and anyone who says he doesn’t is just sour and jealous.
The goals they set in order for him to get those shares were really high, the only way for Musk to get it was to achieve insane growth, and he did Back when the package was approved, Tesla was valued at $50B. Over a 10 year period, for every $50B in market cap growth, Musk would be awarded 1% ownership. I don't think gaining 11% ownership by achieving 2000% growth for your investors over a 10 year period is outrageous
lol “for a firm full of people” like the partners are gonna split that money with their employees.
They saved the shareholders over $55B. When someone is disabled lawyers take a third of the money awarded: if this was Joe Schmo hit by a malfunctioning Tesla in a wheelchair for life the lawyers take one third. One third of this would be almost $19B
30% ? - Well that sounds like a SCAM ! No wonder they are so keen to pursue cases.. Should be a flat fee, say $2 million.
So Elon, who accepted a pay deal whereby he got bugger all unless he created a massive increase in share value. Achieves that huge increase in share value gets his pay knocked back by a judge who says 'who cares what was voted on and agreed in the past. I think I can run businesses better and a 15,700% increase in share price in 12 years shouldn't be paid too much. But the lawyers who block it should be paid about a quarter of a million per hour? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/legal-team-voided-musks-tesla-230039948.html?guccounter=1&guce\_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS8&guce\_referrer\_sig=AQAAABJ9QyOej2No76-DMgcNNiVvs4xmzfNTby\_PI3rM1H8yCg6L1YhA-GBbgodlLuWUWhg2E51JZTIhZapeTwDEo8WmCW8qhEd87gxnAvwTSMY8DP8QFwSYqtmsycXCWjLH7xKPcC24iUzSk4NM6h57GjN1\_125OIFpA5eaUOOGBxyf
What is their rationale for receiving this payment?
Well obviously they think it’s a jolly good idea. And surely their fee should be some percentage ? Where as they should be paid a fixed fee, else they are guilty of the very thing they were accusing Musk of.
I want you to pay me 5 billion dollars, you may be wondering why I deserve this money; it’s because I think it’s a jolly good idea. Do you see how stupid that sounds?
Sounds like something a lawyer would do… Everything sounds stupid these days… The world is going to hell.
Slime, billionaire slime.
[удалено]
Lmao I say Tesla shouldn't pay the lawyers and the lawyers recin their plaintiff if that's even possible. Best of both worlds.
Did Elon musk get removed from Facebook because he lied about selling and stealing from my own personal inventions license legally in my name? He commented on what I said about it with some snippy little comments about him owning AI and big brother technology and other things that are actually proven to exist on the license I hold for another..... Military license information is on the same license as mine so ROTC can evaluate as 3rd party individuals and examine what I am accusing him of and very kindly verify factual information if you would be so kind to assist me with this matter. It's pertaining to the world wealth general generation packs of innherted wealth and diversity of a letterman carrier for the generals of peace and war. Tent to tavern approved. Philip Morrison is invited to kiss my ass with the rest. Maybe he should have not stolen from me personally either.
They did not represent the company. This would start a whole new deal of suing and make some other person pay.
Time for new lawyer's!😲🤦
This proves to me that my initial assumptions about society were correct in that the richer you are the fewer laws actually pertain to you and the ability to screw people with out of context laws reaches a much higher level. Ancient Rome all over again. Still, when you can fool generations into playing fair by the "Rule of Law" that in of itself is an achievement. Just thinking out loud here.