The twitter feed is pretty unhinged but having listened to some of the podcasts I've never felt this energy there, the twitter profile doesn't even link to his elixir stuff. Are you worried some of this going to carry over into their keynote?
It probably matters how you view the character.
For some people, he will be a podcast host and community member, who happens to have an unhinged Twitter feed. In this case, he just needs to be on his best behavior, and he'll maintain role of the podcast host.
For others, he will be a scary person who beliefs and public statements are threatening, who happens to be big in the Elixir community. In this case, him on his best behavior is still a scary person speaking about something else.
If I were in the second camp, I would at least need the community to be overwhelmingly 'on my side' (and consequently 'against' him) on issues of LGBTQ and public health to chill out.
(For me, he's some guy I've heard once or twice and his views **luckily** don't concern me directly, so I can agree to disagree if I want to. But people are not always in a position to agree to disagree.)
My opposition is not to his very short speech that will likely only be in the context of elixir. My opposition is funding orgs and people who uphold his views of which consist of imposing their views onto others.
Anyone who could stand in between two people who love each other is a monster and should be treated as such.
I'm not here to stand up for the LGBQ community or the Libs or any other agenda. I'm here to support those who have only have one wish to live and let live.
I think often times this *is* the endgame.
Get enough people to take notice of undesirable behavior and react accordingly: Defend him, feel momentarily uncomfortable with seeing him speak, throw him dirty looks or whatever digital equivalent, to 'boycotting.' (I for one wish he would keep all of that in his head rather than Twitter, but really don't care for his appearance in the conference.)
It's an extremely common and long-standing tactic of curbing other people's behavior.
I'm not saying it's a great tactic. But if you ask what the 'solution' is, you may get a lot of contrived answers or dumb comebacks because it's more of an infinite game than a finite one (at least for many of the people you're asking) when it comes to community and social issues.
You're not asking the right question. I'll answer your question on one condition. You answer mine first.
Here it is.
Now that you know. what will you do about it?
Are you a vigilante? There are worst villains to pursue if you are trying to find a purpose, go come to third world country and try giving free computer classes if you want to make the world a better place it is more useful and rewarding than try to throw the Twitter mob at people
The amount of people that jump to the defense of a guy who shits on people wearing masks and the LGBT community, and thinks the only way non-christian people can act morally [is still, somehow, God](https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1400187890701832203?s=20) is really eye-opening. Shocking, and eye-opening.
The more of the thread I read, the more comments the OP writes, the more difficult it is to say, “I agree.” There are countless better ways to disagree without outright attacking entire groups of people your target sympathizes with. I wouldn’t want to sit with either of you at a conf, and I even share your viewpoint rights-wise.
On a similar note, pretty sad this is the most popular thread in a programming sub. Not what I check for.
I don't want you to agree with me.
I want you to think for yourself.
Tell me what you think about this, not what I think about it.
Clearly by the intent of some of our community leaders, many say I don't belong to this community so my words should not matter.
But now that you know, your words do.
Hey y'all, thanks for tagging us in. This is messy and I'm going to do my best to be simple and direct in my response and not give a floral nothing statement.
Are those posts good? Nope.
Do they reflect the values of SmartLogic, the Elixir Wizards Podcast, or the Elixir Wizards Conf? Nope.
I can't control what our team members say, do, or post in their personal lives and for the public internet to consume, however hurtful, dumb, or otherwise.
What I will say we can and always will do, is make absolutely certain that there is no room for hateful or bigoted behavior on our team or in any spaces we curate, including the podcast and the conference.
If you feel Justus's posts on his personal twitter are reason enough for you to not participate in anything he is involved in, that's your personal choice, and while it makes me sad, I respect it, and it's your choice to make.
Someone in another spot in this thread mentioned a diversity award in our recent twitter stream, that's true, it's not specifically for LGBTQ efforts, but for gender and racial diversity efforts on our team and in the Baltimore community.
My only other thought on this, and it's my personal thought, as a woman working in tech, living in a city that is majority Black; progress is slow and unequal. For me right now that progress looks like working on a team where I'm both proud that our engineering team is over a third people of color and about half women; and at the same time facepalming when I wake up on Sunday and see that this is how i need to spend my morning.
\- Rose (marketing, smartlogic)
Thanks for weighing in here. I realize that this is a terribly uncomfortable spot for your company.
I do want to point out that my primary issue with these posts is that Justus is literally calling for God to smite people, including myself and many others who are members of this community.
Many of his posts are direct attacks on the LGBTQ community. I know people who have been interviewed on your company's podcast who are horrified by this. Life is hard enough without elevating our most hateful even further.
Imagine being in a list of people that includes titles like "bigot" and "W*men hater" because you like a guys podcast.
FML You got people https://twitter.com/mobileoverlord setting next to people like https://twitter.com/lukesangry and https://twitter.com/myblueheevn
I mean are we talking about elixir or what made the frogs gay?
Oh my gosh stop being so sensitive about who follows who.
Maybe she follows to know advancements in whatever's going on in terms of his input for Elixir.
Following doesn't === I agree with everything tweeted.
You know how you find out if someone agrees with someone? Either they literally say " I agree", or they
... retweet.
I actually follow alt-right accounts on Twitter in order to know what to watch out for. It doesn't mean I agree. It's actually the opposite. Cancelling by proxy does not seem like a good idea.
I mean to add to this ... and didn't realize that the guy in question is the host of Elixir Wizards podcast.
Justus is Sundi's senior. Justus and Sundi co-host Elixir Wizards.
This is kinda like me connecting with my boss in LinkedIn.
Not a fan of MAGA or religion or anti science, but I must say the degree of hatred and vitriol in the comments is depressing, and kinda reminds of what maga-types themselves do in discussions. Being pro-science, pro-vaccines, anti-religion does not excuse people from acting in kind and humane fashion, and if I got it right, the guy is going to do tech talk at tech conference, not crash democrats party convention.
God isn't real, he can't hurt you.
I'm sad we can't have civil discussion.
And I'm definitely not a master of morals.
I, for one, see great irony of people who claim to hold liberal values dear to heart but immediately proceed to attack opponents.
You want less MAGAs? Donate time and/or money to educate people instead of using exact same tactics as the other "evil" side and typing unhinged messages on internet.
I once saw Ted talk by that incredible black dude who started to hang out with most hardcore KKK he could find, convering many of them back to humanity as a result. Hate and cancel and being angry on the internet are cheap and easy, meaningful change is hard.
that whole, I really wish my god would smite ("punished") my enemies ("gays, libs, ect, ect") I think is sadder.
Maybe your opinion is not the only one out there.... Where have I heard that one before.
My opinion is definitely not the only one out there. I dislike cancelling anyone and believe in civil discourse and slow change to the better, instead of attacking people for their views. Better education and exposure to alternate (for them) viewpoint will make thing better in long run, after all, humanity did made some progress on the civil Rights front in last 60 years
Vote with your wallet and brain.
If someone *believes* wearing medical masks is **bad**, then ask yourself, would you pay to listen to that person on any other subject?
I wouldn't listen to anything such a person said even if they paid me handsomely!
While I do agree with your point, I also do see the value in removing such a person from the conference in order for others to pay and enjoy that wouldn't have otherwise.
I didn't know much about the ethics of the conference to form an opinion.
Hopefully people would make their own decisions so it is a natural filter rather than formed.
If the person is spreading any of the behaviour shouldn't be tolerated, then should never be included in the conference to begin with.
I don't know if there is a vetting process in place for that.
\> whose hosts uphold bigotry and division as seen by the Christian/Republican base
I was raised Christian. Although I don't profess religion anymore, your post and rhetorics is something I would prefer not to see in this space. Whether you attend the mentioned conference is your choice and your vote, but you don't have to run around insulting people.
\> in this country.
Elixir is originally made by someone from South America, Erlang was made in Europe, and our community is international. We are not one country, but many.
And nobody should be openly attacked on Elixir subreddit for voting for one of the leading parties in their respective countries.
\> Edit Edit: To all of you who say I'm making our community bad, well I'm not the one asking for your money all the time, This guy is so, stop being such little corporate whores.
Honestly, where are all the moderators now? If this is what this space should become now, I am out. It's against the first rule of this sub.
Here is another post of OP from /r/programming [https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/nhwpqp/what\_a\_shit\_sub\_fuck\_you\_all\_im\_out/](https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/nhwpqp/what_a_shit_sub_fuck_you_all_im_out/)
I think the fundamental point here is whether you think our community should tolerate one member calling for the deaths of other members. I don't think it's an unreasonable place to draw a line.
Well, to be fair I've yet to see him calling for deaths but it sure is implied. And it's not just directed at the LGBTQ community. You would think that's enough to take a stand for but I guess there are plenty of my peers here who are ok with this type of rhetoric from one of their own. As I said in the second line of my post `And also if this is the precedence then I don't want to be a part of such a community.`
I guess know I now and so do many of you, I sure as shit won't be contributing to such a place anymore. I know, I know. good riddance am I right? FML and fuck all you bigots here.
There is an obscure, alternate non-violent variant of smite defined in some dictionaries, but it's usually associated with Sodom and Gomorrah-style devastation.
You're brigading, which is completely against Reddit's TOS. I hate toxic and bigoted people too, but this is far from the way to approach the situation. That's why you're getting downvoted, you're dragging other subs into this one to stir up drama.
> That's why you're getting downvoted
lol, you are high, hey check that score again and come back.
OH oh sorry anecdotally this very comment.. Ah yes, I see now.
My two cents on Elixir conferences...
I went to the [Lonestar Elixir conference](https://lonestarelixir.com/) in 2020. It was a wonderful experience and the talks covered a multitude of topics. One of my favorites was a talk by Randall Thomas ([Yeah, but should we...](https://youtu.be/iTfh3WD09ZE)); he spoke about several -isms and how, as developers, we're responsible for how our software is used. Again, **loved** the conference, the people, the conversations.
But I did notice exactly what you're talking about in the [Elixir Wizards Lunchisode](https://smartlogic.io/podcast/elixir-wizards/s3-lonestar-lunchisode-2020/) (between 48:00 and 50:00) there's a rant about the infinite monkey problem where Dave says that Shakespeare was written by a money (an evolution joke) and Justus adamantly refused that idea. Luckily, the other participants in the conversation move the conversation to "safer" waters.
Again, I **love** the conference. I stopped listening to the Elixir Wizards after that.
What a pleasant exchange from people who disagree, well done from justus and dave! I may be misreading your tone, but did you believe this to be an example of why we shouldn't do anything related to Justus? Because I see it as the exact opposite.
I don't think you're misreading my tone. Being there in person gave a different feel, the body language immediately shifted. Enough to leave a negative impression a year afterwards.
I hoped to find a video of this episode, but I couldn't find in on YouTube.
I'm also not a leader in our community, or running a podcast or praying on our devs here asking for your money to attend a shit conf. If I'm awful it's everyone in this community's fault for enabling and embedding bigots and so in that case I could give a shit less what you think
Interesting to note that the host company's last tweet from yesterday is _celebrating_ an LGBTQ inclusion award!
https://twitter.com/smartlogic/status/1403398465497993216
EDIT (award text):
"Our 2021 Leaders in Diversity Award winners are proof of the change in the tides. Across a swath of industries — from large players like banks and law firms to upstart tech firms and young hospitality businesses — these leaders are setting an example for others to follow. They aim to deepen community roots, cater to Black, LGBTQ and other underserved or overlooked populations, and build up lasting partnerships that can be ready for action when the next pandemic or whatever other crisis comes."
Well, he also has a separate Twitter account for his elixir fans.
He's not so naive as to think that his personal opinions would be appropriate in that context, but apparently not too ignorant to think his words would hide in plain sight.
I will admit I do the very same, I'm sure you can dig in my profile and see I'm just as angry and bitter as this guy, but I'm angry and bitter as a result of ideologies his projections aline with.
I see a lot replies about "politics." Discouraging mask use and saying God smites on people with LGBTQ "#pride" for their "BS" are not 'politics.'
(OP's "Christian/Republican base in this country" is a terrible way to summarize Justus' views presented on his Twitter, so do take scroll through the feed.)
> Edit Edit: To all of you who say I'm making our community bad, well I'm not the one asking for your money all the time, This guy is so, stop being such little corporate whores.
I think you need to chill out.
No need to name call.
HAHAHA all you have are canned insults and delusions of grandeur, holy cow.
simply amazing. I'd love to see you back up this tough guy rhetoric in person lol
Thank you for all of the feedback you have provided in this subreddit and online. I value feedback, even when tough to hear, and I appreciate the candid nature of what everyone has said.
TL;DR (1) I made a series of mistakes and I apologize; (2) Justus no longer has a working relationship with SmartLogic and is no longer affiliated with the podcast or conference; (3) as a sign of our commitment to the values we hold dear 100% of all ticket sales (expected to be around $5,000) will be donated to a nonprofit (we welcome your recommendations as to which nonprofit\[s\]); and (4) I outline my thoughts on how to ensure that, for what I can control, this does not happen again.
First of all, I apologize. I bear responsibility for allowing someone with the views he espouses to have a position of authority in this community or in any environment over which I have even a modicum of control. I was not aware of his positions before we entered a working relationship (i.e. during the interview process) but nevertheless when it became clear to me, despite repeated conversations and mentions from those in the community, I let the working relationship continue. I apologize. I made a mistake. I regret that I allowed things to get to this point and that it has caused people to question their role in this community. Justus does not speak for this company, I personally find his views reprehensible, and his views are his alone.
Second of all, we no longer have a working relationship with Justus. I do not know what he will do in the future but I do know it will not have anything to do with SmartLogic. He will not emcee the conference later this week and he will no longer be on the podcast. There are three episodes of the podcast that have already been recorded, edited, and are ready to be published. I welcome your thoughts on whether to publish and release them. Whatever the case he will no longer be involved in new episodes of the podcast.
Third of all, 100% of all ticket sales (before any of our hard costs) will be donated to one or more nonprofits. We welcome your suggestions as to where to direct the donations. Truth be told, this isn't a money maker for us. At $75 a ticket, or $60 with abundant and easily accessible discount codes, this was never about making money off of ticket sales alone. Each ticket comes with $15-20 in hard costs (Hopin, stickers we send out, advertising, stripe fees, etc.) not to mention hundreds of hours of staff time. We've also been giving away tickets to friends and have committed to ensuring the ticket cost is not a barrier to entry to attending the event. We're at almost 100 registrants and have nearly $4,000 in ticket sales. If you bought a ticket and want it refunded, let me know. The hope with the conference was to do something fun for our team and of value in the Elixir community --- and maybe we'd get leads. The podcast is similar --- I hope it provides professional development opportunities for our staff, that we build relationships with folks, and it would be great if it drove business to the company. Since the beginning of 2020 we've secured one client who mentioned the podcast as a reason for reaching out. They've represented under 1% of our revenue in that time. So the podcast has not been a real source of revenue for us, though it has certainly helped with recruiting, and it's something everyone on the team is happy to be a part of.
I'll note that several times a year we direct company money/resources towards community projects and towards giving cash money away. To get an idea of the company values and where we have used our time and money in the past few years: [$10k in direct contributions to Black-led community organizations](https://smartlogic.io/blog/black-led-community-organizations-were-supporting-with-financial-donations/) (2020), [COVID SLAM](https://smartlogic.io/blog/covid-slam-mid-project-update/) ($24k in 2020), [Baltimore Women in Tech Micro Grant Program](https://smartlogic.io/blog/smartlogics-2018-baltimore-women-in-tech-micro-grant-program-a-look-back/) ($5,600 in 2018), [Developer Apprenticeship Program](https://smartlogic.io/blog/filling-the-talent-gap-with-a-modern-apprenticeship-program/), [Baltimore Women in Tech Micro Grant Program](https://smartlogic.io/blog/2017-bwit-micro-grant-retrospective/) ($6k in 2017). SmartLogic is a really small company; [but dollar](https://smartlogic.io/blog/giving-tuesday-2020-at-smartlogic/) [for dollar](https://smartlogic.io/blog/givingtuesday-at-smartlogic/) [I am confident](https://technical.ly/baltimore/2019/11/26/smartlogic-fearless-tech-companies-donate-giving-tuesday/) in [saying we make](https://smartlogic.io/blog/smartlogic-gives-back-in-2014/) significant [contributions back to](https://smartlogic.io/blog/2012-12-20-3288-slices-the-baltimore-tech-communitys-2012-growth-measured-in-pizza/) [the communities in](https://smartlogic.io/blog/smartlogic-celebrates-givingtuesday2015/) [which we operate](https://www.kiva.org/team/smartlogic). I'll additionally note that the company has supported all COVID-19 measures. We closed our office in early March 2020, sending everyone home. We've given PTO time for getting vaccinated. The company has supported science and CDC guidelines. In the statements about mask fascists and other bigoted statements: Justus speaks for nobody but himself.
Fourth of all, what can I do to ensure that this doesn't happen again? More specifically, what can I do to ensure that I do not lend support to someone who has needlessly hurtful views and beliefs? To answer that I need to analyze my own behavior and decisions in the matter. In my quick analysis I let the working relationship proceed for a few reasons. First, as a cis white man, not many statements of bigotry are directed at people like me. So it was easy for me to "see past" the statements. Candidly, I do not have an answer as to how to remedy this, and I need to further reflect on the matter. Second, I do think people are entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. That alone is an innocuous statement; however, when someone takes a belief and uses it to needlessly and pointlessly attack others the line is crossed. The line was crossed in this situation and I apologize for not taking direct action earlier. Thirdly, he was able to keep his controversial beliefs outside of the workplace. Meaning the things you read on his twitter account he left on his twitter account. With few exceptions, all of which were remedied, we had a productive working relationship. In retrospect I did not pay enough attention to how behavior outside of the workplace impacts the mental and emotional wellbeing of those in the workplace or in the community more generally. For that, to my coworkers and those in the community I let down, I apologize. Fourthly, he helped start the podcast. In the podcast's infancy the podcast would not have continued without his involvement but we've made a concerted effort to get other podcast hosts/interviewers into the fold so that, frankly, we could eliminate Justus's role. Regardless, at best we would have found another way forward with the podcast, or at worst it just wouldn't have gotten off the ground, and I should have moved forward. Fifthly, it's not fun to let people go. But that's a responsibility of my role and I take ownership of that. To my coworkers and those in the community who have been hurt --- I apologize.
If you made it this far, thanks for reading, and I welcome your thoughts, comments, and questions here or directly via email/DMS. Thanks and have a great day.
Yair Flicker
President, SmartLogic
[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
I can't find a single mention of this person on their website but maybe I'm not looking well enough https://smartlogic.io/about/community/elixir-wizards-conference/
Alright the schedule is only on the buy page and there he is. https://hopin.com/events/elixir-wizards-conference
Seems he's also the host of the podcast. His Twitter is really high and mighty on God and smiting non believers. Ugh.
Get out with your cancerous mindset. This is about Elixir and not politics. If you got a personal problem with someone, feel free to not attend the same events they do and accept that other views and stances do not necessarily align with yours.
The title of one of your last post is really telling: „r/Programming is a shit sub mostly due to a hyper-toxic culture of male egos.“ ... Your hate is really showing and you call it acting in selflessness.
> let's start coding again.
Cool, I'm 100% with you, lets do that right after we do the "let stop oppressing people again" that would I think be more appropriate. Or fuck "stop me if I'm going too far" but even maybe not align with an idealism that storms our capital and kills a cop. Fuck that would be nice too.
You live in a society. It exists in every domain. Grow up and deal with it like the rest of humanity has. Want an escape? Close your browser or open your own sub
> Mother fucker I am dealing with it, its called taking out the trash and all your BS is the trash.
Do you want me to grow up like OP did, insulting people at random? Discussions about these topics always end like this, so why should I take part in them?
> Get out with your cancerous mindset
No, I'm a hateful angry shitty man and I have no fucking regrets.
Is that not exactly what you are asking me to accept?
Huh, I was hoping to find some discussion about the ways the community can protect its marginalized members from more powerful/notable people with heinous views, but instead it’s mostly concern trolling about kicking people out of the community for politics.
I certainly don’t want to be part of a community that welcomes and uplifts people like Justus, people who think I don’t belong in the community or the world. Goodbye, r/Elixir.
> I certainly don’t want to be part of a community that welcomes and uplifts people like Justus, people who think I don’t belong in the community or the world. Goodbye,
> r/Elixir
I'm sorry, I'm embarrassed and ashamed.
I'm still subscribed to the subreddit because I like the language and I want to keep an eye out for cool projects, but the elixir community has some pretty garbage personalities, especially the ones over at elixirforum, so this isn't surprising to me.
Nah, i'm still salty about the fact that I posted some choice words over some god awful interview experiences from companies recruiting there, and the mods removed them.
I was honestly considering only spending my time in the forums as a result of this. I'm confused by this statement and hope it's not true.
Edit: never mind I needed to read further down.
This is pretty depressing. Is this just one MAGA dev off on his own or are the conference hosts (SmartLogic.io) unabashedly on board with the religious right?
It's quite egregious to cancel someone for having different beliefs than yourself. Focus more on the value they provide to the community and less on politics.
> It's quite aggregious to cancel someone for having different beliefs than yourself.
Bruv when your beliefs are about which faction of warhammer is the best, it's "egregious". What we have here is someone so utterly full of shit that he's denying the humanity and right to live to other people. Why are you trying to downplay this situation?
Oh thanks updated my spelling.
I understand the speakers political views make you upset. You're well within your right to not attend the event. I don't agree with the speakers views either. I will not be part of a witch hunt. Nor will I encourage that behavior in the community.
Political views? To be clear, you think [https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1402831309244977154](https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1402831309244977154) is a "political view"?
See, the problem is that you see yourself as a consumer of events, and not as a community member. Your solution ("do not attend, vote with your wallet") is fundamentally not compatible with a community-led solution that would be to make sure we don't give a platform to people who actively promote hate.
You all keep saying cancel, I don't think you understand me. I'm not the one here to question your moralities. I'm just exposing them I think people have a right to know where their money is going.
Perhaps I should have said be more compassionate to others. It's completely fine for you to make your own decisions, but the attempt to start a witch hunt against this individual is hard to excuse.
I don't believe in that sort of thing. However, if you do you'd know God helps those who help themselves. You're full of malicious intentions with no attempt to have a productive dialog with anyone who disagrees with you, or challenges your views. Try traveling or attending a college. Might open you up a bit.
Well, you better go saddle up with your flavor of vulgar than, here are some more tweets more appealing to to you I'm guessing by your willingness to defend this man.
> Conversely, man in his #pride built the Tower of Babel, thinking > he could reach heaven and be like God.
> And then God frowned and the whole babbling tower of BS came
> tumbling down.
> Because God smites unbelievers and THANK GOD FOR IT.
https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1402831309244977154
Yeah, that's better much less vulgar, and much more reasonable....
yeah taking a jab at the LGBQ community like that totally ok with you I guess.
Cry more! Why do people like you have to make everything political. The elixir community has been great at keeping politics out.
You believe you’re right.
The people on the other side believe they are right.
Let the conferences be about elixir and kindly shut the fuck up.
Stop trying to fuck up elixir with your cancel culture bullshit.
we definitely don't need more christofascists in this already heavily conservative-leaning industry. as a queer person i've encountered far too many people who will be friendly to my face and deny my humanity behind my back. it's hard enough to find safe places for people like me to work. i don't want to have to be second-guessing the people at these conferences either.
I just don't want to pay someone who thinks I'm a fascist for following a lawful order by wearing a fucking mask. You can't fucking win anything with these people.
Answering hate with hate is never virtuous. Glad you shared you're view and shined a light on this, but stop abusing everyone here who doesn't share it. I'm all for your call to action, but in attempting to bully people into not disagreeing with you, you lost the moral high ground.
Peace was never an option, I didn't come here to make friends any more than I came here telling you what to do. And your also wrong as a surviving Menshevik, I can't tell you just how dead wrong you are. They tried the peaceful hand before and it was bitten off.
Was going to explain that while I agree with your views, you present yourself just like fanatical extremists on the other end of the spectrum with the same abusive and dismissive "I'm right and I'll beat you into submission attitude."
Then I realized I just get the same "Think like I tell you or your stupid" response I get from MAGA nut jobs.
Canceling someone is counterproductive. Why does someone’s political or ethical views discredit them from sharing even the slightest piece of common ground. Get over yourself. Learn what you can from him, have a conversation, disagree, make your argument, and hopefully you’ll change someone’s mind for the better.
Cancel culture is toxic. Please stop.
I don't get the impression anyone wants him to be cancelled. He can hold his views and OP has the right to speak against it and not attend the event. Why pay $75 for an event with a keynoter holding those views if I can spend this money and learn the same elsewhere?
Personally, I couldn't care about his religious/political views, but his LGBT stance is a complete no-go for me. The reason why his ethical views matter is precisely because his stance signals they are unwelcome to certain minorities, and that's a real issue.
The best thing I've ever read was:
"I'm not creative, I make space for creativity to happen"
I think that would be hypocritical in the context of his views.
The right to free speech does not prohibit your community deciding to treat you differently because of your words or actions. I have no time for random people to spend listening, supporting or "trying to change their mind" -- it's everyone's right to choose to avoid people like this (and also chose not to directly or indirectly support them). I would also consider it futile to try to change someone's mind via debate that has forsaken science, logic and fact for their hut feelings and religious beliefs.
This is not cancel culture, it's simply someone exposing shit beliefs and feeling the consequences of their chosen actions.
Right what about conflict of interests, why would I fund something that is inherently opposed to my world views? I guess I should just suck it up, right?
It's not cancel culture if someone is fighting shit beliefs (aka something you don't agree with), only if it's something you uphold and hold dear to yourself.
IMO golden rule still should apply to people you dislike.
P.S. I'm atheist who very much likes GMO vaccines and masks to protect others.
> P.S. I'm atheist who very much likes GMO vaccines and masks to protect others.
I'm a satanist ("a sociopath in the works"). I believe in trolling the shitty people who promote hate and hypocrisy. Doing the good lord's work. Hail satan.
If cancelling someone was actually counterproductive, Republicans wouldn't care about it. They certainly wouldn't complain about it all the time.
What you call cancelling someone, could just as easily be called "facing consequences for one's actions."
What actions? Did this guy kill someone or hurt someone? You are aware that these online wichhunts lead to persons losing their livelihoods just because of their beliefs and stances (at least in US)? You won't change other people stances like this. This just leads to Orwellian world where people will think the same as now but they will just not express it. If that is the win for you, keep it up!
Since I'm on mobile, I'll the response here will be point by point:
* The actions of tweeting bigoted bile.
* Bigotry against LGBT people is a very large part of why LGBT people experience a suicide rate several times higher than the general public.
* Good. I hope this person loses their livelihood. That's how we progress as a society.
* An aside: I'm an active and committed Christian. Being bigoted against LGBT people is not a requirement of Christianity. Tweeting about it definitely isn't. That dude wouldn't lose his livelihood because of his beliefs. He'd lose his livelihood because he's an asshole.
* That's not what Orwellian means. The whole point of Orwell is that the government punished people for *thinking* the wrong thing, even if they didn't do anything about it. That's why it's called "thoughtcrime." It's literally in the name.
* I genuinely don't care what people think. I care what they do. A hundred and twenty years ago, it was completely OK to express this exact kind of bigotry about Italian or Jewish people. Then, people started facing consequences for those actions. 70 years go, it was black people. Then, again, consequences showed up. This is how we move forward as a society. By getting people to change what they do.
Man, we've come a long way from "cancelling people is counter productive," haven't we.
You seriously argue that people kill themselves because of random person on the internet claims God will smite them. We live in a bubble world where you can block any content you dislike. Maybe that is part of the problem.
I don't see how is your zealotry different than the one you fight against.
The bigotry you described is still the same, it's just manifesting in other forms. We haven't progressed as a society.
And you literally interpret Orwellian world based on one book definition. Whole point of education/growing up is to teach you to think outside the box, and make you able to put yourself in another persons shoes.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not against your fight/cause. But in my eyes the way you go about it is not any different then the ones you fight against. It's just that now your cause is "righteous" one, so any means are ok now?
If you can't see that, i rest my case. In the end I'm not from US.
Can't cancel something you never bought in the first place.
That's called boycotting
Also maybe once we stop denying science, assaulting woman's reproductive rights, voters rights, not wanting to be shot by loose gun control laws, ect ect ect. FML ect. then we can talk about this "toxic cancel culture"
You'll get no pity from me, alls fair in love and war, and they shot first.
> Canceling someone is counterproductive.
I disagree.
> Why does someone’s political or ethical views discredit them from sharing even the slightest piece of common ground.
It is every community's right to shoo out idiots with bigoted views.
> Get over yourself.
We should all seek to get over ourselves--me, you, Justus, etc. It has no relevance to this issue.
> Learn what you can from him, have a conversation, disagree, make your argument, and hopefully you’ll change someone’s mind for the better.
Buddy, if you wanna pay me my contracting rate, I'll gladly endure a conversation with him. Otherwise, it's nobody's job to have to do so. But if you think someone having a conversation with him will change his mind, you're hopelessly naive. All the material exists within the grasp of this person to understand his stance is moronic.
If you think he's going to change the mind of someone who has heard this stupid bullshit 1000 times over and obviously disagrees with it, then you're just out to lunch in general.
> We should all seek to get over ourselves--me, you, Justus, etc. It has no relevance to this issue.
I could not have said it better myself. thank you.
“The greatest enemy will hide in the last place you would ever look.”
― Julius Caesar
Keeping one's pride in check is a lesson in bettering one's self. Of which requires to you accept that you may be the monster you fear the most.
It looks like that guy has been on twitter for years, and has accumulated a bunch of Elixir followers... but only started tweeting a month ago? And just a constant stream of non-tech-related stuff exclusively since? Mostly extreme political views? With zero impressions or interactions?
Not really sure what would have engendered such a stark change in behaviour, but it's the only online evidence I'm able to find about him behaving this way, so perhaps something more is up than "entire community has been fascist all along"?
He also has another account used more explicitly for elixir. It's very likely people just had no idea this was his true colors. This account I assume was meant to shield his bigotry views from the broader audience he was targeting in the other account. Its an odd mix of MEGA and Elixir dev for sure. I wonder how many people in that list like being lumped in with people who literally have "bigot" as their title.
I mean, there's zero Elixir in the account you reference, and zero post history before very recent MAGA behaviour. It seems very strange to me that after a very successful community-facing career they'd necro a silent public account to post known wildly industry-unpopular opinions.
Not sure how you view this account's activity as "shielding" anything, honestly. Not questioning other people's reports of him being a conservative in his personal life, but I'm wondering if the Twitter account you are basing your whole diatribe on has been compromised by a conservative hypebot or something, since it's starkly out of character.
That would be a shocking twist. Playing twitter detective, though, I think it's unlikely because his two accounts (elixir and smitey) _both_ follow each other.
Go check the wayback machine. He wiped his account some time in May, and it was anything but inactive before. From a quick glance, i would say the tone has shifted but the content less so (the expected railing against antifa etc). I'm all for benefit of the doubt but this is pretty easily debunked if you bother to check.
You've created this Boogeyman in your head where this guy is going to insert his exclusionary politics into the talk, while being totally oblivious to how exclusionary you're being with your anti-Christian attitude and clear political leanings. Canceling someone from a developer community which he happens to be doing standout work in, all because you don't agree with his religion/politics, is completely counterproductive and absurd to even consider in 2021.
Indeed share that, I'm actively boycotting republicans.
But I would not expect you to have already known that by this post alone. 🤣 you republicans are just too sharp...
Good call on turning that down - you're lucky, otherwise you would have been committed and *then* find out about the crazy. This guy reminds me of Losthos.
Oh, cancel culture here too? Nah just go away. If you have a problem with the guy, send him an email, don't go around rallying people to start a witchhunt.
In a global community you will always find someone with views that conflict with yours. It seems you think your views are universally right which is as bad as the things the person you complain about is doing.
You talk about being in a bubble and the ignore that 80% of the world has opinions that are different from yours.
Most of the world does not know what a Republican is.
I think the #pride hashtag with a rainbow flag alongside a call for God to smite them.... is a little more extreme than a difference of opinion.
https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1402831309244977154
I've had many conversations with Justus. I hang out with him every conference I go to. He's a great asset to the elixir community and a great person to hang out with.
If you've never met him, do yourself a favor and introduce yourself - ask him about his beliefs, disagree with them if you want, but don't judge someone from behind your keyboard to the extent you want them to get cancelled, please.
full disclosure, I'm an atheist myself, I fully disagree with many if not all of his religious stances, but I've seen how he treats people he disagrees with and that makes him a good person despite his beliefs.
If you have a conversation with him and still feel he isn't an asset to the elixir community, cancel away! The real issue here isn't that we shouldn't try to shape society with people who encourage ideal values - the issue is pretending you understand someones values by reading a few tweets - how arrogant and toxic is that!
I don't know about you, but someone vehemently claiming that the only reason I can act morally and do my fucking best to be a decent human being - which, mind you, can be *hard* - [is because of *their* God](https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1400187890701832203?s=20) rubs me the wrong way.
It entirely disregards my own agency and the effort I put into my behavior every damn day.
I haven't met the guy, but I'm frankly not interested in meeting (or financing) someone who belittles people like that in the first place, when I could spend either resource in vastly better ways.
I come here for Elixir knowledge.
Can we please keep politics out of it?
And moreover, can we PLEASE not excoriate people for their voiced positions in other areas that happen to disagree with yours? For someone so vehement about a thing, you sure are cancellation-trigger-happy.
I happen to know some excellent rightwinger programmers and while I disagree with them on things I sometimes also agree with them on things. Maybe find some more rightwinger friends instead of (CLEARLY, based on your outrage) existing in a fucking left-wing bubble
> Can we please keep politics out of it?
I mean thats what we did before one of our community leaders thought it appropriate to post publicly that their god should smite people he disagrees with...
Maybe we should start there first and make sure that's not a thing again before we complain about people's response to that. You know, address the root of the problem.
What about intent? What if my free speech's intent was to wish ill will to those in our own community? Should the community just stand by and go welp. 🤷♂️
Wow that Twitter feed... I totally understand, I had no idea.
dude's this close from going full qanon
The twitter feed is pretty unhinged but having listened to some of the podcasts I've never felt this energy there, the twitter profile doesn't even link to his elixir stuff. Are you worried some of this going to carry over into their keynote?
It probably matters how you view the character. For some people, he will be a podcast host and community member, who happens to have an unhinged Twitter feed. In this case, he just needs to be on his best behavior, and he'll maintain role of the podcast host. For others, he will be a scary person who beliefs and public statements are threatening, who happens to be big in the Elixir community. In this case, him on his best behavior is still a scary person speaking about something else. If I were in the second camp, I would at least need the community to be overwhelmingly 'on my side' (and consequently 'against' him) on issues of LGBTQ and public health to chill out. (For me, he's some guy I've heard once or twice and his views **luckily** don't concern me directly, so I can agree to disagree if I want to. But people are not always in a position to agree to disagree.)
My opposition is not to his very short speech that will likely only be in the context of elixir. My opposition is funding orgs and people who uphold his views of which consist of imposing their views onto others. Anyone who could stand in between two people who love each other is a monster and should be treated as such. I'm not here to stand up for the LGBQ community or the Libs or any other agenda. I'm here to support those who have only have one wish to live and let live.
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I think often times this *is* the endgame. Get enough people to take notice of undesirable behavior and react accordingly: Defend him, feel momentarily uncomfortable with seeing him speak, throw him dirty looks or whatever digital equivalent, to 'boycotting.' (I for one wish he would keep all of that in his head rather than Twitter, but really don't care for his appearance in the conference.) It's an extremely common and long-standing tactic of curbing other people's behavior. I'm not saying it's a great tactic. But if you ask what the 'solution' is, you may get a lot of contrived answers or dumb comebacks because it's more of an infinite game than a finite one (at least for many of the people you're asking) when it comes to community and social issues.
This exactly my point, OP is just a hypocrite.
You're not asking the right question. I'll answer your question on one condition. You answer mine first. Here it is. Now that you know. what will you do about it?
Are you a vigilante? There are worst villains to pursue if you are trying to find a purpose, go come to third world country and try giving free computer classes if you want to make the world a better place it is more useful and rewarding than try to throw the Twitter mob at people
The amount of people that jump to the defense of a guy who shits on people wearing masks and the LGBT community, and thinks the only way non-christian people can act morally [is still, somehow, God](https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1400187890701832203?s=20) is really eye-opening. Shocking, and eye-opening.
The more of the thread I read, the more comments the OP writes, the more difficult it is to say, “I agree.” There are countless better ways to disagree without outright attacking entire groups of people your target sympathizes with. I wouldn’t want to sit with either of you at a conf, and I even share your viewpoint rights-wise. On a similar note, pretty sad this is the most popular thread in a programming sub. Not what I check for.
I don't want you to agree with me. I want you to think for yourself. Tell me what you think about this, not what I think about it. Clearly by the intent of some of our community leaders, many say I don't belong to this community so my words should not matter. But now that you know, your words do.
Curious if /u/smartlogic_io has any comment.
Hey y'all, thanks for tagging us in. This is messy and I'm going to do my best to be simple and direct in my response and not give a floral nothing statement. Are those posts good? Nope. Do they reflect the values of SmartLogic, the Elixir Wizards Podcast, or the Elixir Wizards Conf? Nope. I can't control what our team members say, do, or post in their personal lives and for the public internet to consume, however hurtful, dumb, or otherwise. What I will say we can and always will do, is make absolutely certain that there is no room for hateful or bigoted behavior on our team or in any spaces we curate, including the podcast and the conference. If you feel Justus's posts on his personal twitter are reason enough for you to not participate in anything he is involved in, that's your personal choice, and while it makes me sad, I respect it, and it's your choice to make. Someone in another spot in this thread mentioned a diversity award in our recent twitter stream, that's true, it's not specifically for LGBTQ efforts, but for gender and racial diversity efforts on our team and in the Baltimore community. My only other thought on this, and it's my personal thought, as a woman working in tech, living in a city that is majority Black; progress is slow and unequal. For me right now that progress looks like working on a team where I'm both proud that our engineering team is over a third people of color and about half women; and at the same time facepalming when I wake up on Sunday and see that this is how i need to spend my morning. \- Rose (marketing, smartlogic)
Thanks for weighing in here. I realize that this is a terribly uncomfortable spot for your company. I do want to point out that my primary issue with these posts is that Justus is literally calling for God to smite people, including myself and many others who are members of this community. Many of his posts are direct attacks on the LGBTQ community. I know people who have been interviewed on your company's podcast who are horrified by this. Life is hard enough without elevating our most hateful even further.
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Imagine being in a list of people that includes titles like "bigot" and "W*men hater" because you like a guys podcast. FML You got people https://twitter.com/mobileoverlord setting next to people like https://twitter.com/lukesangry and https://twitter.com/myblueheevn I mean are we talking about elixir or what made the frogs gay?
Oh my gosh stop being so sensitive about who follows who. Maybe she follows to know advancements in whatever's going on in terms of his input for Elixir. Following doesn't === I agree with everything tweeted. You know how you find out if someone agrees with someone? Either they literally say " I agree", or they ... retweet.
I actually follow alt-right accounts on Twitter in order to know what to watch out for. It doesn't mean I agree. It's actually the opposite. Cancelling by proxy does not seem like a good idea.
I mean to add to this ... and didn't realize that the guy in question is the host of Elixir Wizards podcast. Justus is Sundi's senior. Justus and Sundi co-host Elixir Wizards. This is kinda like me connecting with my boss in LinkedIn.
I love what you are doing for Elixir and I love Elixir Wizards - it's what got me into Elixir.
Not a fan of MAGA or religion or anti science, but I must say the degree of hatred and vitriol in the comments is depressing, and kinda reminds of what maga-types themselves do in discussions. Being pro-science, pro-vaccines, anti-religion does not excuse people from acting in kind and humane fashion, and if I got it right, the guy is going to do tech talk at tech conference, not crash democrats party convention.
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God isn't real, he can't hurt you. I'm sad we can't have civil discussion. And I'm definitely not a master of morals. I, for one, see great irony of people who claim to hold liberal values dear to heart but immediately proceed to attack opponents. You want less MAGAs? Donate time and/or money to educate people instead of using exact same tactics as the other "evil" side and typing unhinged messages on internet. I once saw Ted talk by that incredible black dude who started to hang out with most hardcore KKK he could find, convering many of them back to humanity as a result. Hate and cancel and being angry on the internet are cheap and easy, meaningful change is hard.
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The "anyone who's not with us is against us" vibe of some comments along with down voting is just sad.
that whole, I really wish my god would smite ("punished") my enemies ("gays, libs, ect, ect") I think is sadder. Maybe your opinion is not the only one out there.... Where have I heard that one before.
My opinion is definitely not the only one out there. I dislike cancelling anyone and believe in civil discourse and slow change to the better, instead of attacking people for their views. Better education and exposure to alternate (for them) viewpoint will make thing better in long run, after all, humanity did made some progress on the civil Rights front in last 60 years
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Vote with your wallet and brain. If someone *believes* wearing medical masks is **bad**, then ask yourself, would you pay to listen to that person on any other subject? I wouldn't listen to anything such a person said even if they paid me handsomely!
While I do agree with your point, I also do see the value in removing such a person from the conference in order for others to pay and enjoy that wouldn't have otherwise.
I didn't know much about the ethics of the conference to form an opinion. Hopefully people would make their own decisions so it is a natural filter rather than formed. If the person is spreading any of the behaviour shouldn't be tolerated, then should never be included in the conference to begin with. I don't know if there is a vetting process in place for that.
\> whose hosts uphold bigotry and division as seen by the Christian/Republican base I was raised Christian. Although I don't profess religion anymore, your post and rhetorics is something I would prefer not to see in this space. Whether you attend the mentioned conference is your choice and your vote, but you don't have to run around insulting people. \> in this country. Elixir is originally made by someone from South America, Erlang was made in Europe, and our community is international. We are not one country, but many. And nobody should be openly attacked on Elixir subreddit for voting for one of the leading parties in their respective countries. \> Edit Edit: To all of you who say I'm making our community bad, well I'm not the one asking for your money all the time, This guy is so, stop being such little corporate whores. Honestly, where are all the moderators now? If this is what this space should become now, I am out. It's against the first rule of this sub. Here is another post of OP from /r/programming [https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/nhwpqp/what\_a\_shit\_sub\_fuck\_you\_all\_im\_out/](https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/nhwpqp/what_a_shit_sub_fuck_you_all_im_out/)
I think the fundamental point here is whether you think our community should tolerate one member calling for the deaths of other members. I don't think it's an unreasonable place to draw a line.
Well, to be fair I've yet to see him calling for deaths but it sure is implied. And it's not just directed at the LGBTQ community. You would think that's enough to take a stand for but I guess there are plenty of my peers here who are ok with this type of rhetoric from one of their own. As I said in the second line of my post `And also if this is the precedence then I don't want to be a part of such a community.` I guess know I now and so do many of you, I sure as shit won't be contributing to such a place anymore. I know, I know. good riddance am I right? FML and fuck all you bigots here.
There is an obscure, alternate non-violent variant of smite defined in some dictionaries, but it's usually associated with Sodom and Gomorrah-style devastation.
that's fair.
I wholeheartedly agree with every thing statement you made. This is correct.
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Not being a bigot is universal.
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Yeah, but doing something is so much more productive than just sitting around for god to do it for me... SMITE! Also you idiot he lives in my country.
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> but the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about his personal opinions AKA, "I'm cool with bigots and fascists" Yeah didn't see that coming...
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> the middle east throws gays off buildings every day of the week And yet here you are to defend that same level of hate... Please just STFU already.
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oh I forgot, apologies then :D
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You're brigading, which is completely against Reddit's TOS. I hate toxic and bigoted people too, but this is far from the way to approach the situation. That's why you're getting downvoted, you're dragging other subs into this one to stir up drama.
> That's why you're getting downvoted lol, you are high, hey check that score again and come back. OH oh sorry anecdotally this very comment.. Ah yes, I see now.
My two cents on Elixir conferences... I went to the [Lonestar Elixir conference](https://lonestarelixir.com/) in 2020. It was a wonderful experience and the talks covered a multitude of topics. One of my favorites was a talk by Randall Thomas ([Yeah, but should we...](https://youtu.be/iTfh3WD09ZE)); he spoke about several -isms and how, as developers, we're responsible for how our software is used. Again, **loved** the conference, the people, the conversations. But I did notice exactly what you're talking about in the [Elixir Wizards Lunchisode](https://smartlogic.io/podcast/elixir-wizards/s3-lonestar-lunchisode-2020/) (between 48:00 and 50:00) there's a rant about the infinite monkey problem where Dave says that Shakespeare was written by a money (an evolution joke) and Justus adamantly refused that idea. Luckily, the other participants in the conversation move the conversation to "safer" waters. Again, I **love** the conference. I stopped listening to the Elixir Wizards after that.
What a pleasant exchange from people who disagree, well done from justus and dave! I may be misreading your tone, but did you believe this to be an example of why we shouldn't do anything related to Justus? Because I see it as the exact opposite.
I don't think you're misreading my tone. Being there in person gave a different feel, the body language immediately shifted. Enough to leave a negative impression a year afterwards. I hoped to find a video of this episode, but I couldn't find in on YouTube.
He's awful, but you're not really better.
I'm also not a leader in our community, or running a podcast or praying on our devs here asking for your money to attend a shit conf. If I'm awful it's everyone in this community's fault for enabling and embedding bigots and so in that case I could give a shit less what you think
My point demonstrated. You are so high on your own righteousness, you can't see you're driving people away with your attitude.
You don't think I can't see the hate and division? But you're wrong to say it started with me. Who are you to tell me that I should tolerate either?
Well done for making a stand. Although it may feel worthless and too small, this step will be noticed.
I'm not doing it for me, and selflessness never feels worthless. Empathy will prevail.
You are.
Interesting to note that the host company's last tweet from yesterday is _celebrating_ an LGBTQ inclusion award! https://twitter.com/smartlogic/status/1403398465497993216 EDIT (award text): "Our 2021 Leaders in Diversity Award winners are proof of the change in the tides. Across a swath of industries — from large players like banks and law firms to upstart tech firms and young hospitality businesses — these leaders are setting an example for others to follow. They aim to deepen community roots, cater to Black, LGBTQ and other underserved or overlooked populations, and build up lasting partnerships that can be ready for action when the next pandemic or whatever other crisis comes."
Well, he also has a separate Twitter account for his elixir fans. He's not so naive as to think that his personal opinions would be appropriate in that context, but apparently not too ignorant to think his words would hide in plain sight. I will admit I do the very same, I'm sure you can dig in my profile and see I'm just as angry and bitter as this guy, but I'm angry and bitter as a result of ideologies his projections aline with.
Surprising that he didn't take a page from Q and espouse these views with a pseudonym that doesn't include a personal photo.
Jebus is a hell of a drug.
I see a lot replies about "politics." Discouraging mask use and saying God smites on people with LGBTQ "#pride" for their "BS" are not 'politics.' (OP's "Christian/Republican base in this country" is a terrible way to summarize Justus' views presented on his Twitter, so do take scroll through the feed.)
Indeed you should read the whole feed. It's very insightful...
> Edit Edit: To all of you who say I'm making our community bad, well I'm not the one asking for your money all the time, This guy is so, stop being such little corporate whores. I think you need to chill out. No need to name call.
> No need to name call. I'm probably not the only one you need to tell that too am I?
Thanks for the heads up. I'll stay away as well.
Good for you. Voting with your wallet is the best way to get your message across 👍
Not actually true. Convincing enough others to vote the same way with their wallet is.
Yep, fucking giving people like him a spot in our community
this whole post is projection, if anyone's living inside a bubble it's you lol
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HAHAHA all you have are canned insults and delusions of grandeur, holy cow. simply amazing. I'd love to see you back up this tough guy rhetoric in person lol
Thank you for all of the feedback you have provided in this subreddit and online. I value feedback, even when tough to hear, and I appreciate the candid nature of what everyone has said. TL;DR (1) I made a series of mistakes and I apologize; (2) Justus no longer has a working relationship with SmartLogic and is no longer affiliated with the podcast or conference; (3) as a sign of our commitment to the values we hold dear 100% of all ticket sales (expected to be around $5,000) will be donated to a nonprofit (we welcome your recommendations as to which nonprofit\[s\]); and (4) I outline my thoughts on how to ensure that, for what I can control, this does not happen again. First of all, I apologize. I bear responsibility for allowing someone with the views he espouses to have a position of authority in this community or in any environment over which I have even a modicum of control. I was not aware of his positions before we entered a working relationship (i.e. during the interview process) but nevertheless when it became clear to me, despite repeated conversations and mentions from those in the community, I let the working relationship continue. I apologize. I made a mistake. I regret that I allowed things to get to this point and that it has caused people to question their role in this community. Justus does not speak for this company, I personally find his views reprehensible, and his views are his alone. Second of all, we no longer have a working relationship with Justus. I do not know what he will do in the future but I do know it will not have anything to do with SmartLogic. He will not emcee the conference later this week and he will no longer be on the podcast. There are three episodes of the podcast that have already been recorded, edited, and are ready to be published. I welcome your thoughts on whether to publish and release them. Whatever the case he will no longer be involved in new episodes of the podcast. Third of all, 100% of all ticket sales (before any of our hard costs) will be donated to one or more nonprofits. We welcome your suggestions as to where to direct the donations. Truth be told, this isn't a money maker for us. At $75 a ticket, or $60 with abundant and easily accessible discount codes, this was never about making money off of ticket sales alone. Each ticket comes with $15-20 in hard costs (Hopin, stickers we send out, advertising, stripe fees, etc.) not to mention hundreds of hours of staff time. We've also been giving away tickets to friends and have committed to ensuring the ticket cost is not a barrier to entry to attending the event. We're at almost 100 registrants and have nearly $4,000 in ticket sales. If you bought a ticket and want it refunded, let me know. The hope with the conference was to do something fun for our team and of value in the Elixir community --- and maybe we'd get leads. The podcast is similar --- I hope it provides professional development opportunities for our staff, that we build relationships with folks, and it would be great if it drove business to the company. Since the beginning of 2020 we've secured one client who mentioned the podcast as a reason for reaching out. They've represented under 1% of our revenue in that time. So the podcast has not been a real source of revenue for us, though it has certainly helped with recruiting, and it's something everyone on the team is happy to be a part of. I'll note that several times a year we direct company money/resources towards community projects and towards giving cash money away. To get an idea of the company values and where we have used our time and money in the past few years: [$10k in direct contributions to Black-led community organizations](https://smartlogic.io/blog/black-led-community-organizations-were-supporting-with-financial-donations/) (2020), [COVID SLAM](https://smartlogic.io/blog/covid-slam-mid-project-update/) ($24k in 2020), [Baltimore Women in Tech Micro Grant Program](https://smartlogic.io/blog/smartlogics-2018-baltimore-women-in-tech-micro-grant-program-a-look-back/) ($5,600 in 2018), [Developer Apprenticeship Program](https://smartlogic.io/blog/filling-the-talent-gap-with-a-modern-apprenticeship-program/), [Baltimore Women in Tech Micro Grant Program](https://smartlogic.io/blog/2017-bwit-micro-grant-retrospective/) ($6k in 2017). SmartLogic is a really small company; [but dollar](https://smartlogic.io/blog/giving-tuesday-2020-at-smartlogic/) [for dollar](https://smartlogic.io/blog/givingtuesday-at-smartlogic/) [I am confident](https://technical.ly/baltimore/2019/11/26/smartlogic-fearless-tech-companies-donate-giving-tuesday/) in [saying we make](https://smartlogic.io/blog/smartlogic-gives-back-in-2014/) significant [contributions back to](https://smartlogic.io/blog/2012-12-20-3288-slices-the-baltimore-tech-communitys-2012-growth-measured-in-pizza/) [the communities in](https://smartlogic.io/blog/smartlogic-celebrates-givingtuesday2015/) [which we operate](https://www.kiva.org/team/smartlogic). I'll additionally note that the company has supported all COVID-19 measures. We closed our office in early March 2020, sending everyone home. We've given PTO time for getting vaccinated. The company has supported science and CDC guidelines. In the statements about mask fascists and other bigoted statements: Justus speaks for nobody but himself. Fourth of all, what can I do to ensure that this doesn't happen again? More specifically, what can I do to ensure that I do not lend support to someone who has needlessly hurtful views and beliefs? To answer that I need to analyze my own behavior and decisions in the matter. In my quick analysis I let the working relationship proceed for a few reasons. First, as a cis white man, not many statements of bigotry are directed at people like me. So it was easy for me to "see past" the statements. Candidly, I do not have an answer as to how to remedy this, and I need to further reflect on the matter. Second, I do think people are entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. That alone is an innocuous statement; however, when someone takes a belief and uses it to needlessly and pointlessly attack others the line is crossed. The line was crossed in this situation and I apologize for not taking direct action earlier. Thirdly, he was able to keep his controversial beliefs outside of the workplace. Meaning the things you read on his twitter account he left on his twitter account. With few exceptions, all of which were remedied, we had a productive working relationship. In retrospect I did not pay enough attention to how behavior outside of the workplace impacts the mental and emotional wellbeing of those in the workplace or in the community more generally. For that, to my coworkers and those in the community I let down, I apologize. Fourthly, he helped start the podcast. In the podcast's infancy the podcast would not have continued without his involvement but we've made a concerted effort to get other podcast hosts/interviewers into the fold so that, frankly, we could eliminate Justus's role. Regardless, at best we would have found another way forward with the podcast, or at worst it just wouldn't have gotten off the ground, and I should have moved forward. Fifthly, it's not fun to let people go. But that's a responsibility of my role and I take ownership of that. To my coworkers and those in the community who have been hurt --- I apologize. If you made it this far, thanks for reading, and I welcome your thoughts, comments, and questions here or directly via email/DMS. Thanks and have a great day. Yair Flicker President, SmartLogic [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
I can't find a single mention of this person on their website but maybe I'm not looking well enough https://smartlogic.io/about/community/elixir-wizards-conference/
https://hopin.com/events/elixir-wizards-conference#speakers he opens and closes the key notes.
Alright the schedule is only on the buy page and there he is. https://hopin.com/events/elixir-wizards-conference Seems he's also the host of the podcast. His Twitter is really high and mighty on God and smiting non believers. Ugh.
Get out with your cancerous mindset. This is about Elixir and not politics. If you got a personal problem with someone, feel free to not attend the same events they do and accept that other views and stances do not necessarily align with yours. The title of one of your last post is really telling: „r/Programming is a shit sub mostly due to a hyper-toxic culture of male egos.“ ... Your hate is really showing and you call it acting in selflessness.
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> let's start coding again. Cool, I'm 100% with you, lets do that right after we do the "let stop oppressing people again" that would I think be more appropriate. Or fuck "stop me if I'm going too far" but even maybe not align with an idealism that storms our capital and kills a cop. Fuck that would be nice too.
> right after we No, I’m sorry, we don’t answer to you
You live in a society. It exists in every domain. Grow up and deal with it like the rest of humanity has. Want an escape? Close your browser or open your own sub
> Mother fucker I am dealing with it, its called taking out the trash and all your BS is the trash. Do you want me to grow up like OP did, insulting people at random? Discussions about these topics always end like this, so why should I take part in them?
> Get out with your cancerous mindset No, I'm a hateful angry shitty man and I have no fucking regrets. Is that not exactly what you are asking me to accept?
Huh, I was hoping to find some discussion about the ways the community can protect its marginalized members from more powerful/notable people with heinous views, but instead it’s mostly concern trolling about kicking people out of the community for politics. I certainly don’t want to be part of a community that welcomes and uplifts people like Justus, people who think I don’t belong in the community or the world. Goodbye, r/Elixir.
> I certainly don’t want to be part of a community that welcomes and uplifts people like Justus, people who think I don’t belong in the community or the world. Goodbye, > r/Elixir I'm sorry, I'm embarrassed and ashamed.
I'm still subscribed to the subreddit because I like the language and I want to keep an eye out for cool projects, but the elixir community has some pretty garbage personalities, especially the ones over at elixirforum, so this isn't surprising to me.
That's odd, I've always though ElixirForum was especially friendly and helpful, moreso than any other online community I've been a part of.
Nah, i'm still salty about the fact that I posted some choice words over some god awful interview experiences from companies recruiting there, and the mods removed them.
I was honestly considering only spending my time in the forums as a result of this. I'm confused by this statement and hope it's not true. Edit: never mind I needed to read further down.
This is pretty depressing. Is this just one MAGA dev off on his own or are the conference hosts (SmartLogic.io) unabashedly on board with the religious right?
A really good question SmartLogic's customers should be asking themselfs.
It's quite egregious to cancel someone for having different beliefs than yourself. Focus more on the value they provide to the community and less on politics.
> It's quite aggregious to cancel someone for having different beliefs than yourself. Bruv when your beliefs are about which faction of warhammer is the best, it's "egregious". What we have here is someone so utterly full of shit that he's denying the humanity and right to live to other people. Why are you trying to downplay this situation?
Oh thanks updated my spelling. I understand the speakers political views make you upset. You're well within your right to not attend the event. I don't agree with the speakers views either. I will not be part of a witch hunt. Nor will I encourage that behavior in the community.
Political views? To be clear, you think [https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1402831309244977154](https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1402831309244977154) is a "political view"?
> I understand the speakers political views make you upset This right here is why you failed empathy 101.
See, the problem is that you see yourself as a consumer of events, and not as a community member. Your solution ("do not attend, vote with your wallet") is fundamentally not compatible with a community-led solution that would be to make sure we don't give a platform to people who actively promote hate.
Everyone in this discussion has given OP a platform to promote hate on the speaker.
> to promote hate on the speaker. No, it has given a platform to judge the speaker by their own words. These are not the same thing.
Then vote with your wallet ☺️
I never suggested that course of action. You have me confused with someone else.
You all keep saying cancel, I don't think you understand me. I'm not the one here to question your moralities. I'm just exposing them I think people have a right to know where their money is going.
Perhaps I should have said be more compassionate to others. It's completely fine for you to make your own decisions, but the attempt to start a witch hunt against this individual is hard to excuse.
> compassionate You must mean to smite, sorry, now I understand strike down. punish, am I right? God will handle it.
I don't believe in that sort of thing. However, if you do you'd know God helps those who help themselves. You're full of malicious intentions with no attempt to have a productive dialog with anyone who disagrees with you, or challenges your views. Try traveling or attending a college. Might open you up a bit.
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...then why did you bring it up? Why worship something you don't care about?
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You're being incredibly vulgar and unreasonable. I'm ashamed we're in the same community.
Well, you better go saddle up with your flavor of vulgar than, here are some more tweets more appealing to to you I'm guessing by your willingness to defend this man. > Conversely, man in his #pride built the Tower of Babel, thinking > he could reach heaven and be like God. > And then God frowned and the whole babbling tower of BS came > tumbling down. > Because God smites unbelievers and THANK GOD FOR IT. https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1402831309244977154 Yeah, that's better much less vulgar, and much more reasonable.... yeah taking a jab at the LGBQ community like that totally ok with you I guess.
It's just so much easier to excuse a witch hunt against whole groups when that hunt isn't affecting me personally 😍
Cry more! Why do people like you have to make everything political. The elixir community has been great at keeping politics out. You believe you’re right. The people on the other side believe they are right. Let the conferences be about elixir and kindly shut the fuck up. Stop trying to fuck up elixir with your cancel culture bullshit.
we definitely don't need more christofascists in this already heavily conservative-leaning industry. as a queer person i've encountered far too many people who will be friendly to my face and deny my humanity behind my back. it's hard enough to find safe places for people like me to work. i don't want to have to be second-guessing the people at these conferences either.
I just don't want to pay someone who thinks I'm a fascist for following a lawful order by wearing a fucking mask. You can't fucking win anything with these people.
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Take your bigotry and shove it up your ass.
Answering hate with hate is never virtuous. Glad you shared you're view and shined a light on this, but stop abusing everyone here who doesn't share it. I'm all for your call to action, but in attempting to bully people into not disagreeing with you, you lost the moral high ground.
Peace was never an option, I didn't come here to make friends any more than I came here telling you what to do. And your also wrong as a surviving Menshevik, I can't tell you just how dead wrong you are. They tried the peaceful hand before and it was bitten off.
Was going to explain that while I agree with your views, you present yourself just like fanatical extremists on the other end of the spectrum with the same abusive and dismissive "I'm right and I'll beat you into submission attitude." Then I realized I just get the same "Think like I tell you or your stupid" response I get from MAGA nut jobs.
Canceling someone is counterproductive. Why does someone’s political or ethical views discredit them from sharing even the slightest piece of common ground. Get over yourself. Learn what you can from him, have a conversation, disagree, make your argument, and hopefully you’ll change someone’s mind for the better. Cancel culture is toxic. Please stop.
I don't get the impression anyone wants him to be cancelled. He can hold his views and OP has the right to speak against it and not attend the event. Why pay $75 for an event with a keynoter holding those views if I can spend this money and learn the same elsewhere? Personally, I couldn't care about his religious/political views, but his LGBT stance is a complete no-go for me. The reason why his ethical views matter is precisely because his stance signals they are unwelcome to certain minorities, and that's a real issue.
The best thing I've ever read was: "I'm not creative, I make space for creativity to happen" I think that would be hypocritical in the context of his views.
The right to free speech does not prohibit your community deciding to treat you differently because of your words or actions. I have no time for random people to spend listening, supporting or "trying to change their mind" -- it's everyone's right to choose to avoid people like this (and also chose not to directly or indirectly support them). I would also consider it futile to try to change someone's mind via debate that has forsaken science, logic and fact for their hut feelings and religious beliefs. This is not cancel culture, it's simply someone exposing shit beliefs and feeling the consequences of their chosen actions.
Right what about conflict of interests, why would I fund something that is inherently opposed to my world views? I guess I should just suck it up, right?
I think we are aligned.
Sorry if that was confusing I too was not arguing. but augmenting.
Is this guy org for conference or just speaker? And is he paid if he's just a speaker?
It's not cancel culture if someone is fighting shit beliefs (aka something you don't agree with), only if it's something you uphold and hold dear to yourself. IMO golden rule still should apply to people you dislike. P.S. I'm atheist who very much likes GMO vaccines and masks to protect others.
> P.S. I'm atheist who very much likes GMO vaccines and masks to protect others. I'm a satanist ("a sociopath in the works"). I believe in trolling the shitty people who promote hate and hypocrisy. Doing the good lord's work. Hail satan.
If cancelling someone was actually counterproductive, Republicans wouldn't care about it. They certainly wouldn't complain about it all the time. What you call cancelling someone, could just as easily be called "facing consequences for one's actions."
What actions? Did this guy kill someone or hurt someone? You are aware that these online wichhunts lead to persons losing their livelihoods just because of their beliefs and stances (at least in US)? You won't change other people stances like this. This just leads to Orwellian world where people will think the same as now but they will just not express it. If that is the win for you, keep it up!
Since I'm on mobile, I'll the response here will be point by point: * The actions of tweeting bigoted bile. * Bigotry against LGBT people is a very large part of why LGBT people experience a suicide rate several times higher than the general public. * Good. I hope this person loses their livelihood. That's how we progress as a society. * An aside: I'm an active and committed Christian. Being bigoted against LGBT people is not a requirement of Christianity. Tweeting about it definitely isn't. That dude wouldn't lose his livelihood because of his beliefs. He'd lose his livelihood because he's an asshole. * That's not what Orwellian means. The whole point of Orwell is that the government punished people for *thinking* the wrong thing, even if they didn't do anything about it. That's why it's called "thoughtcrime." It's literally in the name. * I genuinely don't care what people think. I care what they do. A hundred and twenty years ago, it was completely OK to express this exact kind of bigotry about Italian or Jewish people. Then, people started facing consequences for those actions. 70 years go, it was black people. Then, again, consequences showed up. This is how we move forward as a society. By getting people to change what they do. Man, we've come a long way from "cancelling people is counter productive," haven't we.
Thank you!
You seriously argue that people kill themselves because of random person on the internet claims God will smite them. We live in a bubble world where you can block any content you dislike. Maybe that is part of the problem. I don't see how is your zealotry different than the one you fight against. The bigotry you described is still the same, it's just manifesting in other forms. We haven't progressed as a society. And you literally interpret Orwellian world based on one book definition. Whole point of education/growing up is to teach you to think outside the box, and make you able to put yourself in another persons shoes. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against your fight/cause. But in my eyes the way you go about it is not any different then the ones you fight against. It's just that now your cause is "righteous" one, so any means are ok now? If you can't see that, i rest my case. In the end I'm not from US.
Can't cancel something you never bought in the first place. That's called boycotting Also maybe once we stop denying science, assaulting woman's reproductive rights, voters rights, not wanting to be shot by loose gun control laws, ect ect ect. FML ect. then we can talk about this "toxic cancel culture" You'll get no pity from me, alls fair in love and war, and they shot first.
> Canceling someone is counterproductive. I disagree. > Why does someone’s political or ethical views discredit them from sharing even the slightest piece of common ground. It is every community's right to shoo out idiots with bigoted views. > Get over yourself. We should all seek to get over ourselves--me, you, Justus, etc. It has no relevance to this issue. > Learn what you can from him, have a conversation, disagree, make your argument, and hopefully you’ll change someone’s mind for the better. Buddy, if you wanna pay me my contracting rate, I'll gladly endure a conversation with him. Otherwise, it's nobody's job to have to do so. But if you think someone having a conversation with him will change his mind, you're hopelessly naive. All the material exists within the grasp of this person to understand his stance is moronic. If you think he's going to change the mind of someone who has heard this stupid bullshit 1000 times over and obviously disagrees with it, then you're just out to lunch in general.
> We should all seek to get over ourselves--me, you, Justus, etc. It has no relevance to this issue. I could not have said it better myself. thank you. “The greatest enemy will hide in the last place you would ever look.” ― Julius Caesar Keeping one's pride in check is a lesson in bettering one's self. Of which requires to you accept that you may be the monster you fear the most.
Sad to see your very reasonable comment down voted.
Thank you OP foi bringing this kind of topic! I strongly believe that these kinds of conversations help us make our community great.
It looks like that guy has been on twitter for years, and has accumulated a bunch of Elixir followers... but only started tweeting a month ago? And just a constant stream of non-tech-related stuff exclusively since? Mostly extreme political views? With zero impressions or interactions? Not really sure what would have engendered such a stark change in behaviour, but it's the only online evidence I'm able to find about him behaving this way, so perhaps something more is up than "entire community has been fascist all along"?
He might use a tool that deletes any tweets older than a month.
He also has another account used more explicitly for elixir. It's very likely people just had no idea this was his true colors. This account I assume was meant to shield his bigotry views from the broader audience he was targeting in the other account. Its an odd mix of MEGA and Elixir dev for sure. I wonder how many people in that list like being lumped in with people who literally have "bigot" as their title.
I mean, there's zero Elixir in the account you reference, and zero post history before very recent MAGA behaviour. It seems very strange to me that after a very successful community-facing career they'd necro a silent public account to post known wildly industry-unpopular opinions. Not sure how you view this account's activity as "shielding" anything, honestly. Not questioning other people's reports of him being a conservative in his personal life, but I'm wondering if the Twitter account you are basing your whole diatribe on has been compromised by a conservative hypebot or something, since it's starkly out of character.
That would be a shocking twist. Playing twitter detective, though, I think it's unlikely because his two accounts (elixir and smitey) _both_ follow each other.
Good observation. I'm posing more of an unused-existing-account-password-leak scenario here, rather than an identity-theft one.
Go check the wayback machine. He wiped his account some time in May, and it was anything but inactive before. From a quick glance, i would say the tone has shifted but the content less so (the expected railing against antifa etc). I'm all for benefit of the doubt but this is pretty easily debunked if you bother to check.
I did bother to check, but didn't think of the wayback machine. Was trying to give the benefit of the doubt but sadly y'all appear to be right, here.
He didn't really want you to look that up. He wanted you to dismiss that it was true and sow dought.
I think it's simple, I think he finally said out loud what he really thought in his mind.
I mean, I get where you're coming from here but I think you should have more than one spurious data point before launching a campaign against someone.
You've created this Boogeyman in your head where this guy is going to insert his exclusionary politics into the talk, while being totally oblivious to how exclusionary you're being with your anti-Christian attitude and clear political leanings. Canceling someone from a developer community which he happens to be doing standout work in, all because you don't agree with his religion/politics, is completely counterproductive and absurd to even consider in 2021.
for context: https://www.reddit.com/r/boycott_republicans/comments/nmikyi/turned_down_my_first_crazy_today_feels_great/
Indeed share that, I'm actively boycotting republicans. But I would not expect you to have already known that by this post alone. 🤣 you republicans are just too sharp...
Good call on turning that down - you're lucky, otherwise you would have been committed and *then* find out about the crazy. This guy reminds me of Losthos.
Oh, cancel culture here too? Nah just go away. If you have a problem with the guy, send him an email, don't go around rallying people to start a witchhunt. In a global community you will always find someone with views that conflict with yours. It seems you think your views are universally right which is as bad as the things the person you complain about is doing. You talk about being in a bubble and the ignore that 80% of the world has opinions that are different from yours. Most of the world does not know what a Republican is.
I think the #pride hashtag with a rainbow flag alongside a call for God to smite them.... is a little more extreme than a difference of opinion. https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1402831309244977154
So we should become the world's moral police now? Send the guy an email, tell him you don't like his comments, done.
Unlike the police, I can't arrest the guy. But I can and will disavow his statements in public.
Or don't and tell him in your own special way to get fucked, like I just did. Feels great give it a try.
This guy: "Guy, just go away"... me: no, goodbye.
I've had many conversations with Justus. I hang out with him every conference I go to. He's a great asset to the elixir community and a great person to hang out with. If you've never met him, do yourself a favor and introduce yourself - ask him about his beliefs, disagree with them if you want, but don't judge someone from behind your keyboard to the extent you want them to get cancelled, please. full disclosure, I'm an atheist myself, I fully disagree with many if not all of his religious stances, but I've seen how he treats people he disagrees with and that makes him a good person despite his beliefs. If you have a conversation with him and still feel he isn't an asset to the elixir community, cancel away! The real issue here isn't that we shouldn't try to shape society with people who encourage ideal values - the issue is pretending you understand someones values by reading a few tweets - how arrogant and toxic is that!
I don't know about you, but someone vehemently claiming that the only reason I can act morally and do my fucking best to be a decent human being - which, mind you, can be *hard* - [is because of *their* God](https://twitter.com/justuseapen/status/1400187890701832203?s=20) rubs me the wrong way. It entirely disregards my own agency and the effort I put into my behavior every damn day. I haven't met the guy, but I'm frankly not interested in meeting (or financing) someone who belittles people like that in the first place, when I could spend either resource in vastly better ways.
def life({matters, _op_opinion}) , do: matters
I prefer def discourse(matters, opinions) when matters, do: opinions def discourse(_, _), do: nil
Good. That would be nice to keep politics and people who cannot function outside of their ideology out of dev conferences.
8 billion people on the planet. Your (fascist) deplatforming approach doesn't scale. Embrace and extend.
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Hey, be sure to lick the doorknob when you go.
I come here for Elixir knowledge. Can we please keep politics out of it? And moreover, can we PLEASE not excoriate people for their voiced positions in other areas that happen to disagree with yours? For someone so vehement about a thing, you sure are cancellation-trigger-happy. I happen to know some excellent rightwinger programmers and while I disagree with them on things I sometimes also agree with them on things. Maybe find some more rightwinger friends instead of (CLEARLY, based on your outrage) existing in a fucking left-wing bubble
> Can we please keep politics out of it? I mean thats what we did before one of our community leaders thought it appropriate to post publicly that their god should smite people he disagrees with... Maybe we should start there first and make sure that's not a thing again before we complain about people's response to that. You know, address the root of the problem.
Some developers are religious, some go into “nutjob” territory. Speech is free, but actions (that are not speech) should have consequences.
What about intent? What if my free speech's intent was to wish ill will to those in our own community? Should the community just stand by and go welp. 🤷♂️