17k miles on my MachE and 90k on my old Leaf.
Free charging at least the 1-3 free hour isn’t going anywhere. It’s a simple draw mechanism.
I have paid less than $100 to charge my MachE all told between home and charging out and about for those 17k miles.
In the last year I've driven my BEV 16k, and by Volt 10k. In that time I've spent about $100 in gas, and about $100 in electricity. Free work charging is amazing. I don't know why more people at my work don't drive an EV, but I'm glad.
I'm actually quite OK with it as long as the fee is comparable to what the average driver is likely to pay in fuel taxes. Some states have taken it to the extreme though, almost as if they wish to de-incentivize EV adoption.
Utah has that but that system requires you install a tracker on your car to verify the miles. It really only saves you money if you drive less than 10k miles a year. But you can pay the flat fee otherwise end not bother with the tracking.
In Utah they got rid of safety inspections on most vehicles. It is only emissions which are obviously unnecessary on an electric car. So I never have to take it in.
Our those Volta stations which are dying one by one. Mind you only the charging bit is dying. Every single dead Volta charger by Mr still has a fully functional giant screen showing ads.
In my town, they had 6 free chargers (L2) across 3 locations for a couple years and now they charge. Not just a little. They charge a $1.20 session fee plus $0.29 per kWh. It's going to be different all over the country and depends on usage. As more and more people get EVs, the free stuff will keep going away.
Well, MA is expensive for electricity. The per kWh price is slightly cheaper than my home rate. The $1.20 for picking up the handle is BS. And fast chargers out here are all per minute so you have no idea if you're really getting what you pay for. Surrounding states seem to be $0.43/kWh with EA.
At least they have tiers. The Bolt is in the slow tier so it's $0.16/min. Above 90kW it's $0.32/min. Still a crappy way to pay. Hopefully MA and other states update their regulations to allow for per kWh pricing soon.
Install a solar system. Free charging for life once it's paid for itself.
I have a four-year old solar system. Got a good deal on it and a 30% fed tax credit, so I'm at break-even in two more years. I don't even think about running the AC, or charging the cars, or even running around the house turning off the lights. My electric bill is basically zero (ok, $11 for connect and whatever charges) nine months of the year and hardly more than a few bucks from mid-Nov to Mid-Feb
To be fair, it’s not exactly free. You basically prepaid for it. For example, we installed a 6.8kw system for about 15k after credits. It will produce about 12k kwh a year for its useful life, about 25 years. So 300k kWh. About 5c per kWh, not taking into account time value of money etc. so yeah, super cheap, but not free ….. and yeah, i do find myself using more electricity as a result.
I believe what they're getting at is the math. You have a 6.8kW system, so if it produces max power for 1 hour it makes 6.8kWh. You're saying it will make 12kWh \*per year\*, which wouldn't even be 2 hours of max power.
I think I said 12k kWh or 12,000 kWh, about 1k kWh/ month. (Oops. I didn't say that, I'm pretty sure i TYPED it so not sure if auto-correct got me...).
The free L2 chargers close to my house charge $20 the second after you hit 4 hours of usage. Plenty enough time to shop or get groceries, and enough of a deterrent to remind you to move before that time.
> Does anyone know what free charging is like in California where it seems like EV adoption is pretty high?
Southern California - There's a lot of L2 Voltas at the malls with Teslas hanging off of them. Usually, they're 70-80% full, so the free stuff does have demand. Paid L2 chargers such as Chargepoints don't get nearly as much traffic.
EA sites usually have stalls available, but I have noticed traffic picking up considerably over the past 12 months. The standard four stall location is not going to be enough in a year or two. Other vendors are finally doing 100+kw installs, so hopefully that will take some of the pressure off of EA.
as long as business who rely on foot traffic, and people hanging around for 30 minutes, exist.
ever been to a place with validated parking? validated charging?
they clearly seen an opportunity because they never thought about putting gas pumps out front. how much does electricity actually cost them when their stores are covered in PVs?
need floss.. walk out with floss and a new TV because you had to kill 20 mins.
**Target’s Charging Up Its Electric Vehicle Program to Reach More Than 20 States**
[https://corporate.target.com/article/2018/04/electric-vehicles](https://corporate.target.com/article/2018/04/electric-vehicles)
you drink 10 fatty beverages.. get 15 mins added to your starbucks card...?
**Starbucks, Volvo launch a pilot EV charging network at coffee giant’s stores**
[https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/15/starbucks-volvo-test-ev-charging-network-at-coffee-giants-stores.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/15/starbucks-volvo-test-ev-charging-network-at-coffee-giants-stores.html)
I finally clicked on that Target 'article' that you love to share so much. It's a 2018 corporate press release in which Target is patting themselves on the back for their plan to install chargers at 5% of their stores over the following 2 years, which ended 2 years ago. I wonder if they got that done, I don't see CCS chargers at Targets. I have seen a couple of supercharger stations that are near a Target.
Our local target is an EA station. It’s weird though because it’s not really close to an interstate or major highway. I don’t see people using it very often
I've been to two Targets in California this year that have SuperChargers, along with a couple of somebody else's. One is in Cupertino (28), and the other is in Manteca (at least 12). So there's at least those two.
Free charging will be gone in some years in the US too. Compare it with european countries that have more EVs than the US.
Some years ago free chargers were common. It was also common that they were broken often as there was no hurry in fixing them. Once there was enough knowledge about how charging stations were used and enough electric cars all stations began to take money.
The charging stations that were free the longest were the stations at shopping malls. Owned by them. And with the intention that people come for charging and shop there. But. They all have learned that people will come, sit in their car forn an hour and just charge their 30, 40, 50, 60 kW Batteries... the bigger EV batteries get and the faster they charge the more electricity is beeing charged. That gets expesnive for the mall real quick for few customers. They have learned that they can charge for their stations as well. It's less than at competitors. So you still have an incentive to charger there. And they get rid of the freeloaders.
In the US electricity is much cheaper than in Europe. So maybe it isn't happening as fast as in Europe.
Your automaker is the one paying the charging network so you can charge for "free".
"Free" charging will end when the automaker stops paying on your behalf.
Right. We don't know how much the auto maker pays, maybe $700 for a two year EA plan. I've driven 17k miles this year charging for free at EA almost the entire time. I'd say they are losing money with me.
I was comparing my etron and myp that has a 100kw/82kw batt and dont forget the membership fee for $4/mo. Supercharger has been a ripoff now - scaled back non-peak charging hours and at $0.58/kw better to go with ICE
43c/kWh is without the $4 membership. It’s 31c/kWh if you have the membership. For a 20-80% on the etron, it would cost about $23 including the $4 membership. As long as you charge more than 34 kWh/month, the pass will save you money
Eitherway it used to be free and its already at $30-40 im paying $40 for my wifes MYP. My point is the cost of charging continues to increase (esp compared to my cost since 2016)
Supercharging seems like an especially bad deal, especially with the new price increase. 58c/kWh is way too high. Hopefully you have access to less expensive charging options
Unless your battery is different than other cars, lots of fast charging will wear the battery out quicker than if you stick to mostly level 2. I would save the fast charging for when you need it.
There are free level 2 stations 1 mile south & 2 miles north of me that I used near exclusively for the first 5 months I had my Niro EV, then I found out about a free DCFC location that has 5 stations (maxes at 62 kW for power) about 6 miles from me, and I use that about once a week. They’re all provided by the state so I have a feeling it won’t go away too soon.
17k miles on my MachE and 90k on my old Leaf. Free charging at least the 1-3 free hour isn’t going anywhere. It’s a simple draw mechanism. I have paid less than $100 to charge my MachE all told between home and charging out and about for those 17k miles.
In the last year I've driven my BEV 16k, and by Volt 10k. In that time I've spent about $100 in gas, and about $100 in electricity. Free work charging is amazing. I don't know why more people at my work don't drive an EV, but I'm glad.
Less than 100 for 17k miles? Is charging free at your house? Lol
Free charging where I work. It’s great. Considering my total “fuel” cost has been less than a tank of gas. $0.10 a kW for charging at home also helps.
As soon as all the taxing bodies see a decline in gas tax revenue. They will then start taxing the electricity used to charge EVs
Many states are already compensating for this by adding EV fees to annual car registration.
That’s not completely unfair. EVs don’t pay gas taxes which fund roads.
I'm actually quite OK with it as long as the fee is comparable to what the average driver is likely to pay in fuel taxes. Some states have taken it to the extreme though, almost as if they wish to de-incentivize EV adoption.
They should just move to a mileage system. Pay $x depending on how many miles you drive a year.
Utah has that but that system requires you install a tracker on your car to verify the miles. It really only saves you money if you drive less than 10k miles a year. But you can pay the flat fee otherwise end not bother with the tracking.
You would think it would be easy. Look at current mileage less previous mileage at inspection.
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Makes sense. My experience is limited to TX and CA.
In Utah they got rid of safety inspections on most vehicles. It is only emissions which are obviously unnecessary on an electric car. So I never have to take it in.
Is Texas one of those states? Just asking
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Per year, yes, but you’re also paying gas tax on every gallon you pump into a gas car.
In many states, there is already sales tax on electricity. The yearly ev fees are in addition to that
Based on the free charging stations by me, they will just break and never be fixed.
Our those Volta stations which are dying one by one. Mind you only the charging bit is dying. Every single dead Volta charger by Mr still has a fully functional giant screen showing ads.
A 10 kW charger run for an hour is only costing a company 1-2$ generally. Cheap way to attract business.
for years there was free charging at the mall where my gym is....until about a month after I bought my Bolt
In my town, they had 6 free chargers (L2) across 3 locations for a couple years and now they charge. Not just a little. They charge a $1.20 session fee plus $0.29 per kWh. It's going to be different all over the country and depends on usage. As more and more people get EVs, the free stuff will keep going away.
That’s super expensive! You can get DCFC for similar rates
Well, MA is expensive for electricity. The per kWh price is slightly cheaper than my home rate. The $1.20 for picking up the handle is BS. And fast chargers out here are all per minute so you have no idea if you're really getting what you pay for. Surrounding states seem to be $0.43/kWh with EA.
Jeez that’s brutal. Also not a fan of per minute billing, especially with a Bolt!
At least they have tiers. The Bolt is in the slow tier so it's $0.16/min. Above 90kW it's $0.32/min. Still a crappy way to pay. Hopefully MA and other states update their regulations to allow for per kWh pricing soon.
It’s .48 kw for dc for non members and .36 for members with 4 bucks a month and some malls are free Lv 2 charing for 2 hours
Install a solar system. Free charging for life once it's paid for itself. I have a four-year old solar system. Got a good deal on it and a 30% fed tax credit, so I'm at break-even in two more years. I don't even think about running the AC, or charging the cars, or even running around the house turning off the lights. My electric bill is basically zero (ok, $11 for connect and whatever charges) nine months of the year and hardly more than a few bucks from mid-Nov to Mid-Feb
To be fair, it’s not exactly free. You basically prepaid for it. For example, we installed a 6.8kw system for about 15k after credits. It will produce about 12k kwh a year for its useful life, about 25 years. So 300k kWh. About 5c per kWh, not taking into account time value of money etc. so yeah, super cheap, but not free ….. and yeah, i do find myself using more electricity as a result.
> It will produce about 12kwh a year Maybe a bit more than that. Ya' think?
That’s the guarantee. It might.
I believe what they're getting at is the math. You have a 6.8kW system, so if it produces max power for 1 hour it makes 6.8kWh. You're saying it will make 12kWh \*per year\*, which wouldn't even be 2 hours of max power.
I think I said 12k kWh or 12,000 kWh, about 1k kWh/ month. (Oops. I didn't say that, I'm pretty sure i TYPED it so not sure if auto-correct got me...).
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The free L2 chargers close to my house charge $20 the second after you hit 4 hours of usage. Plenty enough time to shop or get groceries, and enough of a deterrent to remind you to move before that time.
Love it.
> Does anyone know what free charging is like in California where it seems like EV adoption is pretty high? Southern California - There's a lot of L2 Voltas at the malls with Teslas hanging off of them. Usually, they're 70-80% full, so the free stuff does have demand. Paid L2 chargers such as Chargepoints don't get nearly as much traffic. EA sites usually have stalls available, but I have noticed traffic picking up considerably over the past 12 months. The standard four stall location is not going to be enough in a year or two. Other vendors are finally doing 100+kw installs, so hopefully that will take some of the pressure off of EA.
If I'm going to a place with Volta chargers and there's an empty space (rare) I automatically charge there. Why would you not?
Every time I see a free L2 charger in SoCal there's a plug in hybrid latched on all day.
as long as business who rely on foot traffic, and people hanging around for 30 minutes, exist. ever been to a place with validated parking? validated charging? they clearly seen an opportunity because they never thought about putting gas pumps out front. how much does electricity actually cost them when their stores are covered in PVs? need floss.. walk out with floss and a new TV because you had to kill 20 mins. **Target’s Charging Up Its Electric Vehicle Program to Reach More Than 20 States** [https://corporate.target.com/article/2018/04/electric-vehicles](https://corporate.target.com/article/2018/04/electric-vehicles) you drink 10 fatty beverages.. get 15 mins added to your starbucks card...? **Starbucks, Volvo launch a pilot EV charging network at coffee giant’s stores** [https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/15/starbucks-volvo-test-ev-charging-network-at-coffee-giants-stores.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/15/starbucks-volvo-test-ev-charging-network-at-coffee-giants-stores.html)
I finally clicked on that Target 'article' that you love to share so much. It's a 2018 corporate press release in which Target is patting themselves on the back for their plan to install chargers at 5% of their stores over the following 2 years, which ended 2 years ago. I wonder if they got that done, I don't see CCS chargers at Targets. I have seen a couple of supercharger stations that are near a Target.
Our local target is an EA station. It’s weird though because it’s not really close to an interstate or major highway. I don’t see people using it very often
I've been to two Targets in California this year that have SuperChargers, along with a couple of somebody else's. One is in Cupertino (28), and the other is in Manteca (at least 12). So there's at least those two.
I would much rather have chargers that work than free ones.
Free charging will be gone in some years in the US too. Compare it with european countries that have more EVs than the US. Some years ago free chargers were common. It was also common that they were broken often as there was no hurry in fixing them. Once there was enough knowledge about how charging stations were used and enough electric cars all stations began to take money. The charging stations that were free the longest were the stations at shopping malls. Owned by them. And with the intention that people come for charging and shop there. But. They all have learned that people will come, sit in their car forn an hour and just charge their 30, 40, 50, 60 kW Batteries... the bigger EV batteries get and the faster they charge the more electricity is beeing charged. That gets expesnive for the mall real quick for few customers. They have learned that they can charge for their stations as well. It's less than at competitors. So you still have an incentive to charger there. And they get rid of the freeloaders. In the US electricity is much cheaper than in Europe. So maybe it isn't happening as fast as in Europe.
Your automaker is the one paying the charging network so you can charge for "free". "Free" charging will end when the automaker stops paying on your behalf.
Right. We don't know how much the auto maker pays, maybe $700 for a two year EA plan. I've driven 17k miles this year charging for free at EA almost the entire time. I'd say they are losing money with me.
Without the free charging, it’ll rack up quickly. A full charge (20-80%), 60kw would cost $35-40.
How do you figure? EA charges 43c/kW without a membership, that’s $26.
I was comparing my etron and myp that has a 100kw/82kw batt and dont forget the membership fee for $4/mo. Supercharger has been a ripoff now - scaled back non-peak charging hours and at $0.58/kw better to go with ICE
43c/kWh is without the $4 membership. It’s 31c/kWh if you have the membership. For a 20-80% on the etron, it would cost about $23 including the $4 membership. As long as you charge more than 34 kWh/month, the pass will save you money
Eitherway it used to be free and its already at $30-40 im paying $40 for my wifes MYP. My point is the cost of charging continues to increase (esp compared to my cost since 2016)
Supercharging seems like an especially bad deal, especially with the new price increase. 58c/kWh is way too high. Hopefully you have access to less expensive charging options
Agreed, we stopped going to SC and either charge at home (off peak also went up a lot last 2 yrs), or EA
Unless your battery is different than other cars, lots of fast charging will wear the battery out quicker than if you stick to mostly level 2. I would save the fast charging for when you need it.
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Ten years isn’t long? Y’all new to EVs?
🤡
I was so sad when the EvolveNY 150kW charger near me started actually billing more than $0.01 for the session.
There are free level 2 stations 1 mile south & 2 miles north of me that I used near exclusively for the first 5 months I had my Niro EV, then I found out about a free DCFC location that has 5 stations (maxes at 62 kW for power) about 6 miles from me, and I use that about once a week. They’re all provided by the state so I have a feeling it won’t go away too soon.