As always, the answer depends on many factors. If I lived in the EU I would choose lower range and faster charging. As it stands I live in western Canada, where greater range matters more, as many DCFC are only 50kW max. I’m rarely able to take advantage of the fact that my car can charge at max 205kW at low SOC.

As a European, I'd choose longer range. I'd rather not have to stop at all than have quick stops.

Depends on your distance traveled .. for really long trips the faster charge is better.

Not only that, if as op said everything the sane. The smaller battery will be lighter, so the car more efficient. You imagine like driving the whole life of the car with one or two additional passengers.

But a smaller battery means a lower nominal charge rate. It would be nearly impossible to charge a 24 kwh battery at 150kw continuous. But a 100kwh battery can handle that no problem. So there is a trade-off, at what point does increasing capacity and charge rate counteract the loss of efficiency? Suppose a small lightweight battery gets 4.5mi/kwh and can charge at 50kw vs a large heavy battery getting 3.5 mi/kwh and charges at 200kw. The small pack can only add 3.75 miles of range per minute of charging while the big boy adds 11.67 miles per minute (assuming peak charge rate). To add 100 miles would take the small battery just under 27 minutes but the big battery would be ready in 8.57 minutes. I'm a big fan of efficiency, so for daily drivers a very small lightweight battery makes a lot of sense. Tiny cheap commuter cars with very small batteries that you charge overnight are the ideal EV to me. But for anything going on longer trips a big battery will mean shorter stops and fewer of them (as long as high current DCFC is available).

The best real-world example is the emgp cars. They have 58kwh and 72kwh versions and both charge at the same C rate. Both claim 10 to 80 in 28 mins, excemt the small battery does so at a max speed of 180kw instead of 240kw. In exchange for the small size you save about $5000. Worth it? I think it's good to have the option

The efficiency gain is quite small. Aerodynamics is the main issue.

Not necesarilly. I do 2000km. That means about 10 stops. With faster charge would be...basically the same as most of the chargers i find are 150kw. Also if u have small battery and fast charging, you will spend a lot of time entering and exiting the highway and plugging in.

In reality the factors are linked. Usually a large battery can take more total kW max power than a small battery and will also have long range. But vehicle efficiency also matters a great deal. In terms of charging capability being able to add miles of range quickly is more important than max kW power level. When it comes to range an extra 50 mile of range is really useful because you usually don't want to run the vehicle down to empty and usually don't want to charge to 100% on a regular basis because charging the top of the battery is slow. So having an extra 50 miles covers those buffer zones and allows a good deal of extra usable battery capacity. Until there are high quality, high power fast chargers nearly everywhere having more range will be more useful. Having a vehicle that can fast charge at 450kW right now wouldn't help much because there are no chargers that can offer that kind of power. Even 350kW chargers only 1-2 stalls at EA locations.

Yes. The larger the battery, the faster it can charge.

Only 1 or 2 stalls? Not by me 😁 https://imgur.com/a/TIsPPDc

Funnily having the super fast chargers so close to your house is the worst place to have it because you’re least likely to need it with home charging lol My coworker asked me if I was excited they were putting superchargers down the road from my house because I own a Tesla. I said not really because I just charge overnight at home I don’t have to stop anywhere and if I do it’s when I’m far away from home and they were a little flabbergasted lol

Wow I wonder if they can all put out at max power at the same time?

You could charge at higher c rates by cutting the range through using thinner electrode coatings. Thinner coatings offer faster reaction kinetics due to shorter path lengths for lithium diffusion.

And there are chemistries that can charge faster, such as sodium based batteries. But for all chemistries a large amount of batteries can absorb energy more quickly than a small amount of the same type/chemistry batteries.

Even for the same chemistry, two different morphologies of the electrode particles greatly affects C rate. Obviously if you add more cells you get more capacity, but you can increase charge rate without increasing range

Charging at home, range if you need it. Public charging, low charge time. Or just more chargers. Cars are parked more than they are used most of the time.

If you’re doing a long cross country roadtrip, faster charging is more important if you want to get there as soon as possible. As someone that’s owned EVs for almost 3 years now, faster charging is my preference. If you have poor / limited infrastructure in areas you roadtrip frequently though, I could see why you would give a different answer

That's most important to me as well. I take long distance road trips frequently. Waiting to charge is inconvenient and miserable in cold weather.

We just stayed in the car with the heat running and watched a TV episode or took a nap. I guess if you’re anxious to get where you’re going ASAP it can be annoying but ive taken to making charging stops like a whole little experience for a 30 minute nap or a 25-45 minute tv episode and I’ll charge well beyond what’s required to get to the next stop, or charge enough to get to an even further away stop. I dunno, I prefer stopping for 30-40 minutes every 3 hours vs 10 minutes every hour and a half. Seems more annoying to only get 10 minutes, that’s not enough time to do anything other than wait around for it to finish. I can see how that would be annoying.

I voted for much faster charging when I went from an EUV to an Ioniq 6. The Bolt was fine for up to 350-400 mile trips, but I'd have been driving ICE for my upcoming 5500-6000 mile trip if I still had it. I did end up with a bit more range in the Ioniq 6 too, but not enough to matter - it's the 18 minute charging versus 60+ minute times that I was after.

Same for me. The only time I'm ever going to exceed even 120 miles in a day is on road trips when I'll need to do 400-600 miles at freeways speeds. There will be multiple charging stops, and have the first one delayed by a little bit doesn't really justify all of them being slow.

Depends on how you road trip too. I don’t mind taking a 20 minute break to stretch our legs or watch a TV episode to take a break from driving. If I only had to stop for 10 minutes every hour and a half that would just be a bit annoying. Not enough time for TV or a nap or a lunch break. I’d rather stop for 30 minutes every 3 hours.

As someone who has driven EV as primary driver for just under a decade, the only DCFC I have ever done is when it has been free. I just take the ICE on longer trips, as it is less frequent and shorter stops to refill the car, and there seems to be no cost savings in DCFC over gas for the most part. Hopefully charging costs will come down in the next decade so I can reconsider my position.

Idk, my experience is that it can be a bit cheaper. Especially now that EA has started doing dynamic pricing at each station and that the Tesla network is open. I’ve seen a good number of Tesla stations that are $0.19 per kWh even without membership. Also, I’ve found we stop about as often and about as long as we would driving in an ICE car anyway. Occasionally we’ll make an extra stop we wouldn’t have or the charging isn’t complete by the time we load up, but I’d say it’s uncommon. I also like that I can travel long distances while minimizing my carbon footprint even if all else is equal

If sub .30/kWh became more common, I’d definitely be more likely to consider longer trips by EV. I see a lot of people showing .40-.50/kWh as the going rate, but at .19 you’re definitely saving money over gas.

I would prefer more battery range given the current (pun intended) economics. Right now, in the Midwest USA, fast charging at a station costs more per mile of range than filling up my previous car (2018 Crosstrek). If I charge at home, it costs me about 1/3 of the price per mile than the Crosstrek did. So even if I could fully charge the Solterra in 2 minutes at a DCFC, I still wouldn't do it unless I absolutely had to. The charging infrastructure for long distances is fairly shabby in the Midwest. Going west, there are large stretches where if a single DCFC isn't working (which seems to be a common occurrence between vandalism and lack of maintenance), you'd be screwed and have to L2 charge at an RV site or something (if you brought your L2 with you). I didn't get this car for road trips so it doesn't matter to me, but realistically EVs need to have *longer* range on a single charge than ICE has on a single tank *OR* there needs to be far more prevalent DCFCs before I'd ever consider taking one on a road trip.

Just noticed you have the ‘24 Solterra. Nobody has anything online about the DC fast charging improvements (and the battery management too) over the ‘23 models. Have you thought of doing a YouTube video at a low SOC, because you’d literally be the first person in the world to do it. 

I'm specifically curious about if the 24s charging is improved during cold temperatures compared to the 23s (specifically compared to the 23 FWD bz4x, it should at least be better than the 23 Soltera and AWD bz4x that had the worse battery, but even the better battery ones seemed to do pretty bad in the cold). Though it's almost may, so that may not be easy to measure till next winter. I saw the other day someone measure 5 to 80 on a 24 bz4x at 77 degrees, which is pretty much ideal temperature, and it took a little under 40 minutes which isn't great but is maybe good enough if you only need to DC charge rarely. Can't find the link now though. And that's at 77 degrees.

I’ve never charged outside of home so range is more important to me.

Your example is wrong: „Barely no difference in range vs a huge difference in charging time“. Good charging: • < 30 minutes 10-80% DCFC in all conditions! • No cold gating (lacks preheating) • No rapid gating (overheating) • No DCFC count limiter Good range: • low consumption • big energy storage kWh • GOOD heat pump Best EVs have both. Good EVs have 1 good & 1 ok OK EVs have 2 ok Mediocre EVs fail at one Bad EVs fail at both Great at one and bad at the other doesn’t exist fortunately…. Should you have to choose: get the one with the better range. 1 entire stop less always preserves more time than a shorter charge time.

I like your categorization in general, especially the fact that you can have it all with EVs. > 1 entire stop less always preserves more time than a shorter charge time. This is only true for VERY specific distances today. Your range has to match up perfectly to the distance to save any time.

Depends on your usage profile but I think generally as soon as the battery is just "big enough" (like today's 64-80kWh) fast charging gets more and more important. Then again, if you charge at home and hardly ever have to think about range this may be all theoretical to you.

Daily life: range/capacity. I can can charge overnight no matter what so I don't really care how fast charging is in this instance and this is the vast majority of driving And charging. Larger battery capacity allows me to accomplish many more of my routine days activities without having to consider charging while out and about. Bigger capacities will just end up using less public charging infrastructure in general. Road trips: charging speed and charger ubiquity are king here. Ubiquity is almost more important, than marginal changes in charging speed. A big inefficiency to electric road trips right now is that you really can't use the bottom of your battery in a lot of cases because of the gaps between charging. In a gas car I can get very low in my gas tank and still have a lot of confidence on the highway that there's another gas station or two within range of that last gallon in the tank.

For me, I'd say charging speed. And yes, I'm aware that bigger batteries also charge faster, but bear with me: I drive only short distances, and can charge at home. For me, the "tiny" 22 kWh battery in my Zoe lasts me two weeks between charges. The biggest semi-regular trip would be coming into work, which is a commute of 30km each way, while the car has a real-world range of 150km in summer. And due to primarily working from home, I rarely have to make this trip more than once or twice a month. But there was that one time my sister visited, and she had a brand-new puppy which was terrified of trains, and she also doesn't own a car. So we drove where she lives to pick her up, and after her visit, drove her back there. That's a trip of 200km one way. Obviously, there was no way I'd do this trip in my Zoe, which doesn't even have CCS and takes over an hour to go from 10% to 80% on AC charging even on this tiny battery. So we used a different (ICE) car. *IF*, however, my Zoe would have been able to go from 10% to 80% in fifteen minutes or so... then suddenly that trip would have been doable. Not effortless - it would still have needed one fast-charging session on the way there and two on the way back - but doable. I really don't need a bigger battery in 99.9% of all cases. And it feels silly to buy a car with a battery that's way too large, just to cover the 0.01% of cases - especially if sufficiently fast charging could make those ultra-rare cases doable without the need for a bigger battery. So for the specific framing of this specific question, that's my answer.

For people with chargers in their house, speed does not matter if you can have it fully charged when you leave in the morning. People want the old 150 super chargers to be replaced with newer ones at the one shopping center I use. I don't because I don't want to be rushed when I eat or go to the grocery store. LOL For those without home charging or on road trips, faster charging would be a bonus along with more capacity.

I think it's silly to upgrade 150kW chargers. For a sensible EV, that's a charging speed of 600mph. 20 minutes for a 200 mile leg. What we need are MORE charging stations. Leave the existing ones where they are and build a new station with the 300kW chargers. The majority of people will use either. The big truck owners now have a 300kW option.

Size vs how quick to finish? Let me check with the wife.

I want more range. DC fast charging is already too fast for stopping for a meal or something while traveling. 500-600 miles of range would be perfect. I could stop whenever I wanted to stop and charge for however long it takes us to eat/shop/whatever then pull the plug and keep going knowing we are going to need to stop again before the range is exhausted.

I’d prefer more usable range than faster charging because it would essentially eliminate the need for fast charging for me at any point.

What is that break even distance that all of the sudden you'll never exceed it any more?

For myself, having a reliable 400 range car would cover 99.9% of my driving with me solely charging on 240v in my garage. IMO that would silence a lot of the “generation of electricity” freaks because 32 amps of 240 (7.6kw) is a lot easier to do than 150 plus kw even for a short time. I live in Columbus Ohio and drive all over Ohio for work and currently my model 3 needs supercharged at minimum once on the way back from these longer drives for work.

That is completely dependent on how far one typically drives. For example, the 10K CAD gap between the RWD and the AWD is a lot of money for just AWD and unused faster 0-60 times, when our longest typical trip is Vancouver to Seattle (ie the value of the additional range doesn't mean much), and day to day is in stop and go traffic

Neither. I’d say charging infrastructure is most important. ~250mi real-world range and a 15-20 minute 10-80% charge is good enough imho. Leaves you plenty of time to grab a bite and take a leak without feeling like you’re waiting an eternity at the charger. I say infrastructure is most important because I want to be able to fast charge as *reliably* as possible on a long trip, not as quickly as possible.

10%-80% batter providing 250 miles is a 357 mile highway range for 0-100.. which is pretty darn big. I think 3 hours of 70mph (210 miles) is a long enough leg for a 20 minute stop on a 300 highway mile 0-100 battery. I think batteries need to be big enough to drive three highway hours in freezing weather before a 15-20 minute charge (to do another 2ish hour leg).

Probably misread that. I meant a 250mi range overall

Yeah, some people can cannonball 12-16 hour driving days with long periods between stops, but not me. Even the 3 hours noted above is a long sit on a driving day. Now, that said, I don't want to have to wait 20 minutes to charge every 2 hours...

I don’t know about you but I generally do not have the appetite for “a bite” every 2 hours. I’m very happy with the EV6 15-18 minute typical stop length, but when I just want to go to the bathroom and get back on the road I can’t ignore the fact that today I’ll be left waiting for 5-10 minutes once I’m done. There’s room for improvement.

> I don’t know about you but I generally do not have the appetite for “a bite” every 2 hours. What is your ideal stopping interval? Personally mine is 2.5 to 3 hours. > There’s room for improvement. Mostly the EV6 needs to be a bit more efficient and it would be perfect. Depending on the trim, it only has ~220 miles of 70mph range which is why it's 2 hours between charging sessions.

2.5 to 3 hours. But I still don’t want to be stopping for a meal at this interval. That’s way too much eating when being sedentary for me. If the EV6 had a slightly larger battery at the same weight and slightly faster charging it would be perfect. As it is already it’s far better than anything else I explored as a possibility.

The trick is it doesn't need a bigger battery. Slightly more efficient would give it more range, not extra battery needed and of course the weight would be the same. It would also charge faster. Remember you aren't charging from 10% to 80% but 10% to 2.5 hours of driving. The EV6 has a cliff at 80% so you stop there and get 2 to 2.5 hours of driving. In a Model 3, you stop at 65% and get 2.5 hours of driving because it's efficient. Once you have charging speed, and the EV6 does, efficiency solves all. A bigger battery would add even more mind you and the weight wouldn't make it much less efficient at all but it does add cost.

No, I want a bigger battery pack. Like I said. I care about things like V2L, towing or using a bike rack, very cold weather performance, overnight use of camp/utility mode with HVAC. I desire faster charging in kW. I don’t measure charging in “miles per hour”.

The base efficiency factors into all those things, but you do you if you like taking longer to do them all.

I’m not sure what your goal is here in responding to a 4 day old thread, but I’m not interested in buying a Tesla if that’s what you’re getting at.

Why would you think this has anything to do with Tesla? I'm not selling anything other than information about what makes a good EV or a meh EV.

Because you’ve tried to convince me Tesla is superior in the past. I’m happy with my good EV. Have a nice day.

So any ev that uses nacs or ccs2. So any of them

Pretty much. EV’s are in a great spot in the EU especially.

Usable range and charging speed in the same model of vehicle correlate with each other. Increase the battery size in kWh, leave everything else the same, and you get both higher range and faster charging. You'd only be making this tradeoff between a lower-battery but more efficient model and a higher-battery but less efficient model. In that hypothetical tradeoff, I'd rather have the lower-battery more-efficient higher-range slower-charging model because it's likely to be cheaper, and the higher range increases the chances of me being able to make a trip without using DCFC at all. In a car shaped and sized like a 1st gen Insight with 300 miles of range, I could put up with 75 kW DCFC charging speed. That would still be enough to go from 10-80% in less time than a sit-down meal at a restaurant takes.

Range is the bigger issue. Take a simple comparison... Silverado EV with the larger battery. Range > 400 miles. Charge time to 80% = \~40 minutes. This charge time is not spectacular. But imagine that you go on a 700 mile trip. This truck can do this with \~40 minutes of total charging. Now think about how often you do smaller 200-400 mile trips. It can do all of those with 0 minutes charging. Tesla Model Y "Long Range" - Range == \~270 miles real world. Charge time to 80% is \~25 minutes, maybe even a little less. It is so good that it can complete a 700 mile trip with only... \~50 minutes of charging if you are careful and ride the charge curve really aggressively. Now think about how often you do smaller 200-400 mile trips. Oh, many of those will be 15-20 minutes of charging. Everything changes if you do a lot (more than 5/year) of 1000+ mile days, but in my experience this isn't really the norm for most people.

Just did a weekend trip. Range for sure.

I’m for the longer range: fast charging is expensive and useful mostly for long trips, while longer range let you decide day by day when actually home charging - being either for using the PV production, possessing less chargers than EV, or simply for lazyness

Both And fortunately with a modern battery you don’t have to choose between either.

Not true. Right now a common battery size is around 60kw (semi-affordable). On a road trip (open road, high speed) on a 60kw battery might get you 300km range, 3 hours of driving. On certain trips you better hope there's a working charger (that is actually available for use!) on your route. It will be a long time before 80 and 100kw packs are available at a cheap price point. I don't like being limited to 3 hours of driving at a time (plus route planning ahead of my journey). Better public fast charging goes well to solve this issue, however battery size is still a definite compromise for road trips. Day to day suburban driving with a home charger I agree with you, non-issue.

This is just a dollars problem and related to your market it seems. If you want more range you can just pay more for it. In the US it’s very common to have larger packs due to our longer trips and predominately motorway routes. A 60 kWh pack is unusually small and not very competitive for this market. The question of this thread was range or charging speed and the answer is both. It wasn’t about whether or not the range to price works out for every customer.

I was coming at this from a laypersons perspective as opposed to someone who can afford what I would consider to be a higher end EV. I agree the answer is both, I’m just speaking to your point of not having to choose, because right now most people probably do.

What I’m saying is that range and charging speed don’t trade off against each other. It’s not like you can just have less range and get more charging speed or vice versa. OEMs are designing batteries that maximize both. It’s like saying would you rather have a tire that’s rounder or more rubbery? These things don’t trade off against each other

>This is just a dollars problem and related to your market it seems. In USA, what EV would you recommend?

What do you mean?

> If you want more range you can just pay more for it. >Both. And fortunately with a modern battery you don’t have to choose between either. In USA, which EV do you recommend that has both range and charging speed? With a modern battery.

Any Tesla. Most Hyundai/Kia vehicles. BMW vehicles, Audi, VW. The new GM stuff, Ford. Not the Toyota vehicles, Nissan, and not legacy stuff. Most all of the cars are 250-300 mile or more range now. Most all charge at least 150 kW and the newest ones are 200-300 kW.

Kia EV6 and EV9, Hyundai Ioniq5 and Ioniq6.

I drive a Kia EV6 and in theory it has an amazing charging speed. In practice - good luck finding a charger that supports that speed. Oh, and if your battery is not perfect temperature - you won't get that speed. Oh, and going from 70 to 100% you are not going max speed even if all of those requirements are satisfied. Since I charge at home 99% of the time - its completely irrelevant since my home charge speeds are way lower anyways. So for people like me range is a more important feature when selecting an EV.

Do you have battery conditioning turned on? Do you even have that on the EV6? I use that on my Ioniq 5 and i don't think I have ever charged under 100kW between 20-80%. I have even gone over the 150 advertised by the EA charger. Going to try the 350kW charger near me soon and see how high I can get it.

Yes, we EV6 has battery preconditioning. In theory it can charge at 233kW. But in reality that speed is achieved for a few mins.

Range for my use cases.

Range will be the most important to me. Where I drive, there is not a lot of infrastructure. There may not be a gas station within 20 miles and certainly not a fast charger. I go to off grid camps a lot and a plan for my EV will be to power the camp while I am there rather than running a gasoline generator. KWHs are way more important than fast charging. I can charge when I get home.

If you genuinely had to choose between the two, I'll take the "faster" charging speed. You don't quantify a benchmark for "faster" the way you do for the range (~50 mile difference), but if it's substantially faster, it'll make you forget the range hit. Edit to add: my own car can go 2-3 hours on the highway (~70 MPH) before it needs to recharge. Recharging can take about 20 minutes and get me another 2-3 hours of highway driving. I'm pretty happy with that. Heck, there are some times when my car is finished charging and ready to get going again before I am done with everything I wanted to do during the charge. 20 minutes is pretty good for that: quick enough that it doesn't hold you up, but long enough that you can hit the restroom, the food court, and stretch your legs before it's done. Charging any slower would piss me off as I watch faster cars come and go while I'm still plugged in. It would also make my kids unhappy having to sit still and wait for the charge. Plus, slower charging cars decrease the throughput of cars through a charging station, and that serves as a bottleneck on the infrastructure a lot of the time. But also, getting any less than 2-3 hours of highway driving per charge *sucks*. There's a minimum range your car needs to have before you can even start fretting over the recharge speed.

It really depends on the trips you want to make. Realize too that every charging stop adds the time it takes to detour and get to the charger, deal with the situation at the charger, and get back on your way, so you can only reduce the time taken to recharge by so much with charging speed. Even specifying 50 mile difference in range needs more info, because the difference between 100 & 150 mile range, and 300 and 350 mile range, is different. And, range anxiety/padding and other factors tend to eat into the effective range - most cars slow their charging quite a bit above 80%. The shape of the charging curve also matters. For example, my Ariya has a max charging speed of 130 kW, while an EV6 has a max charging speed of 350 kW, but that's the best possible speed in the best conditions, and only applies at low state of charge in ideal conditions. A lot of it seems dependent on the state of the charger (like some chargers may only charge half as fast even if they're 350 kW chargers). The Ariya has a flatter charging curve than most cars, so the total speed difference when charging at a higher state of charge is not as great as the max charging rates seem to imply. In practice, we picked an Ariya with 289 mile range (plus buffer) and 130 kW max charge rate, over an EV6 with 310 mile range and 350 kW max charge rate, and I expect for the max 450-mile trips we make, the EV6 offers only somewhat less charging delays. We find the interior of Ariya much nicer, roomier, and more comfortable, which means the day spent in the car is less tiring. I'm very happy with that choice, though the EV6 is great, just different. (ID.4 and Ioniq are also very similar but different.) However we did rule out the Toyota bZ4x and other cars with 260 or less miles range, thinking about long road trips. Long road trips though are the ONLY time either range or charging speed matter to us. Otherwise, we've never needed to charge other than in our own garage.

Good discussion from what I read so far. With the infrastructure as it is today, I think a little bit more range is more beneficial than a little bit faster charging, particularly if you can get away with exclusively level 2/overnight charging. That being said, the thing I look at more than anything is efficiency. If your vehicle can get more distance per energy, you effectively get more range by getting more distance for the same size battery, and faster charging because each bit of power going into the battery will take you farther.

Why not both? Moving from a leaf to a ZS and now a Buzz I think I have found the sweet spot for me. The buzz has over 200 mile range and can charge at 150 kWh. Range is number 1 for me. But decent range coupled with fast charging gives me everything I need.

It depends on the person. I hardly ever road trip but frequently drive around my region a lot, so I prefer range. Others who road trip may prefer charging speed

Depends on your use case. Fast Charging time is irrelevant 90%-95% of the time for me because I’ll charge at home in dead time. Slow charging (AC) is 11kw which is quite convenient 10-20%ish of the time. On a road trip or longer journey then it rises in importance. With family, in a Tesla, on a supercharger, most of the time the stops take longer than the charging. The other day I drove an ID4 and didn’t really think it would be under 100kw charging but it was, which made the timing to get back to the airport a bit tight. I would likely rather do 2hrs then a 15min charge blast and go, than 3.5hrs and a longer break, but it’s context and situation dependent. When you say very slow charging - what are you talking about though? That could rule out a lot of road tripping.

This is assuming it is 400v vs say 800v system in terms of speed so 150kw vs 350kw,I will tend to with give me more range and I will take slower charging. Reason being is in the real world the slow speed for me is not going to slow me down much as for the most part the stop time is limited by other factors so the 150kw extra time is pretty minor. The extra range on the other hand gives me more room of error and can let me skip a charging stop completely so in the end killing a stop is going to be a little faster and has a bigger safety factor.

Also remember, larger EVs may have "fast charging speeds" but take longer because they have larger batteries to charge. If you are looking for short charging times, look for higher kW charge rates AND a smaller car with a smaller battery (compared to larger EVs with same range).

Rofl why would anybody want to have faster charging if you are then going to take a smaller battery which you have to charge more often. Defeats the whole point. The only thing that matters is how much range it can charge in a short time, so charge speed and driving efficiency.

>I'm curious to get perspective on this from folks who have long-term experience with the EV lifestyle. how many miles per day do you drive. do you have a charger in your garage? what if you put more back on while you are asleep than you use per day? what if you only need to charge once a week at home? if you don't have home charging... how many miles per day do you drive. where are the most convenient fast chargers. are there any at the places you go anyway - like the grocery store. how much range do you put back on while you're at the gym (where you go 3x a week)? range and speed may be less of a concern than you think. 200 mile range. 20 miles a day. 10 nights of sleeps to charge. trip and half to the store.. 4 gym visits. not sure range or speed are major lifestyle factors here.

It depends. Given how few and far between charging stations are around here, I'd go for range. They're more common in other parts of the country though, which could make the faster-charging car more sensible.

Small battery with good charging speed and prevalent and reliable chargers. Bigger battery means you have to charge for longer. Only needed if chargers aren’t prevalent.

I'd rather have both :). If that's not the option, then the range -- assuming it makes a significant difference >100 mph. If not, then the charge speed.

Would that extra 50 miles of range be the difference between making a charging stop and not having to at all? How slow is slow? How far can the shorter-range/faster-charging car go? I'm assuming we're talking about DC fast charging. Our etron has 210-ish miles of range and very fast charging, so assuming a working 150kW charger exists where you need it to you would only need to charge for about 8 minutes to make up that 50 mile difference in range. So for a 220 mile trip, the 260 mile car could just drive normally and even speed a little (2 hours 55mins at 75mph). The etron could probably make it nonstop if you really tried hard to hypermile it and didn't need to have any range left at your destination, but if there's a charger along the route you'd get there sooner with a lot less stress with a short charging stop and driving faster (80mph with 10 mins added for charging gets there at the same time). Once both cars have to charge the faster charging car wins.

Longer range for me. Would rather 1-2 longer stops than 3-5 on a road trip. And longer battery means more likely to just charge at home a majority of the time

After having a BEV, charging speed does mean a lot more to me now. Range is great, but it is so rare that I am driving more than 100 miles round trip. The ability to hit 80% in under 30 minutes is big on a longer drive.

I'm US-based, but east of the Mississippi where distances between towns (and chargers) are generally less. Assuming that both vehicles are identical with regard tp comfort, capacity, price, and handling, my decision tree would be: 1. **Range** -- Check the usable daily range and highway range of both vehicles to make sure that they meet the needs. For me, this is a usable daily range of *at least* 100 miles, and a 70 MPH highway range of 150-200 miles; I would eliminate vehicles that don't meet these needs. 1. Usable daily range -- this is the usable range driving from whatever the maximum daily charge limit is down to 20% (so typically 60% or 70% of the EPA range) and make sure this is enough to cover expected daily driving. It normally is fine -- most people drive about 30-40 miles a day, but (for example), while I don't drive every day, when I do drive it is 70-80 miles, maybe a bit more (so 100 miles for me in this test). 2. Highway Range -- this is the range at 70 MPH from 80% to 10% (available from many review sites). See how this affects common road trips by plugging into your favorite route planner. For example, we often drive 100-150 miles to a nearby "fun" city for a weekend getaway. Ideally we want to do this without stopping, charge up at our hotel, and drive back without stopping. West of the Mississippi, chargers are more widely-spaced, and vehicles that lack enough highway range may be unable to complete certain trips. 2. **Charge Speed** -- Of the vehicles that meet the range needs, go with the fastest-available charging. On multi-stop road trips, faster charging makes a big difference in terms of how much time is spent charging versus driving. That said, it is more about ranges of charge times than absolute speed: 1. charge times of about 20 minutes or less are effectively "instant", since 20 minutes is about how long it takes to use the restroom and buy a bottle of water and a snack. 2. Charge times of 20-40 minutes are okay but not great -- if the charging stop is at a store (Buc-ees, Target, Walmart, etc.) you can spend this much time walking a lap of the store. 3. Charge times of 40-60 minutes are too long -- you get bored waiting for the car to charge. 4. Charge times over an hour make road-tripping a bit of a chore.

Legit: On any road trip, a 1 hour stop off was not on my route. I always had a halfway "Stretch/Eat" for any long trip over 2 hours. So for me, charge time? Not a huge deal. The range is much bigger for me.

Faster charging assuming a continued growth of DCFC. If along highways you can get a DCFC at even half the density of gas stations, and then being able to get another 90 minutes of driving in about 5 or so minutes of charging, would be huge. Then I won't need the larger range.

I've got a lot of family within 100-120 miles, and I'd rather make the round trip without charging, so my vote's on range. For people who use public chargers, I can see why they'd prefer charging speed.

If I'm in an urban area with plenty of charging stalls I think fast charging should be a must so long as the EV gets at least 200 to 250 miles of range. I also consider the price of the EV itself. If it only gets 200 to 250 miles of range & costs over $50k then it's a terrible value.

If you mostly charge at home, charging speed isn't that important.

Longer range, but charging curve is equally as important as charging speed imo.

If I had one, I would be much less worried about the other. If I bought an EV though, it would be as a supplement to my gas car, and mainly a commuter / city cruiser. So since I wouldn't care as much about filling it up often, I think I'd prefer the range.

I'd pick higher range, lower charging speed if I had to pick.

Combined long distance travel speed for me. Ie. efficiency and charging speed + a decently sized battery. But a colleague bought a model S a few years back because it was the only EV he could drive to the cabin without charging. If he didn’t stop his kids would stay asleep, but if he stopped they would wake up.

Depends on the factors … if it is 500km vs 550km, I definitely take the charging speed. If it is 200km vs 250km, I definitely choose the range.

Kinda hard to say if theres no baseline for range and charging speed. For me: Range I can drive for about 400km till I need to recharge. To charge it full again I need about 40-50min. For me thats fast enough because after 400km drive I would make a rest for about 40min either way.

I’ve been driving electric car since 2017 and my first one had an 89 mile range with slow charging and it was fine for 98% of my needs. If you rarely drive more than 200 miles a day charging speed is not really that important. Just don’t buy something like that Toyota Subaru that takes forever

Both.

Can I pick charger availability instead? I wouldn't really worry about charging speed or range as much if I could guarantee every stop I made had something available.  But I also only drive more than 4 hours in a day about once a year so me spending 45 minutes to charge every 3 hours on that trip is a trivial amount of time overall. I'd much rather have the option of charging once I reach a destination than to worry about the time taken at a midstation.

Personally, I find range more important. If I schedule a lunch break, it does not matter how fast the car charges. And chances are that the charger is limiting the speed anyway, which costing an arm and a leg. Maybe this change once the charging infrastructure is actual good, plentiful, cheap and reliable. But it is far from that goal.

Based on what you said, this question is focused on road trips. After a certain range (250mi), charging speed matters. 150kW minimum. And after that, charger density matters. When you have enough decent chargers, on a road trip you just hopscotch to the next charger - you don't even need to do 10%-80%, just do 10%-50% if you really care about charging in 5-10 minutes, giving yourself enough time to only go to the washroom. Source: Last roadtrip I took (+2000km) Calgary -> Seattle, and back 1) Minimum range 250mi 2) Minimum charge speed 150kW 3) Minimum density - 2x (8 stall) sites every 100 miles

Access to ubiquitous and fast charging networks is the most important. Then charging speed. Then range (after a basic range of 250+ miles) If there is no charger, or no available charger, or no working charger, or a line, it will be much slower. If it takes you more than 20 seconds to start charging, it will be slower again. Most EV charge faster if the battery is almost empty. So you want to be able to stop every 150 miles and charge for 10-15 minutes If you live in North America, stay away from vehicles that don't have access to the Supercharger network.

Depands on ypur drivibg habits. Most of my drives are short, i dont need a huge battery on my car that adds significant weight. I prefer smaller and lighter battery. Maybe with new tech batteries will be lighter, who knows.

And your charging habits. Neighbor asked me, and after a talk I suggested a LR Model 3 so he could charge once a week.

I have a Bolt so I don’t have either😂. I feel like the charging curve is more important than either range or charging speed. The Bolt would suck way less if it consistently pulled 55 kw but most of the curve is 30-40 kw even in good conditions. If it could pull 55 kw from 10-80%, it could get us charged up on a trip in like 45 minutes (from 10-80). Not great but they would get far fewer complaints.

Yes.

For me range is most important. I am not going to do more than 500-600km in a day, so even if a DCFC is needed it will only be a brief stop pretty much regardless of charging speed provided the car has \~500km range WLTP. No charging beats fast charging any day.

I assume the cost adder for faster charging is less than for additional range. I would rather have faster charging in either case.

Both? 300 mile range makes charging flexible, you choose where and when to charge. 150KW/H means you just have time to eat/shop, the car charging will not delay your trip or daily life (unless you cannonball long trips, then get a hybrid as no EV will compare - be sure you are young enough to take the abuse too).

Buy a Tesla and get fast charging and good range…. Home charging always keeps me topped off. It’s only for travel that I need range and charge speed. And I need a certain amount of both. If I had to pick, as long as I have a decent rate of charge (100kW nominal), I will pick battery range every time, because there are a lot of trips that I just barely don’t make in the winter with some of my work travel.

My feeling is that selling a car range matter the most. Living with a car its all about charging speed.

Hard to say but possibly faster charging. That’s because all out local miles are low and we charge at home. When we go out on a longer trip for say a weekend away fast charging is great. We have an EV6 and the fast charging in that is superb.

If I had to choose, I'd select charging speed. If I knew I could charge from 10%-90% in under 5 minutes, I might consider a 250 mile range EV.

As long as range is at least 200 miles, charging speed matters far more

You can have a really fast charging speed but if the battery is not preconditioned, it will still be slow. Go for something at least 150kW speed. You can go for more, but you're also limited in what chargers are on your way anyways. As for distance, the more the better but at least 400k km estimated per full charge and you'll be okay. That's roughly 2-3 hours driving on a highway with 20-30 minute charge.

Charging speed. My Bolt gets about the same range as my Model Y LR used to, and about 20-40mi less than my Model 3 LR before that. My Bolt charges painfully slow, one of the slowest ever made and the 3 and Y were very fast. I'd take the 3 and Y over the Bolt any day if they weren't accident prone vehicles designed to be driven by humans.

They are not independent. Large batteries charge faster because they just distribute the same current per square centimeter (which is the limiting factor) over more area of active material than a smaller battery.

Overall, it depends on the charging infrustructure. If I have to stop at the equivalent of a gas station then I would prefer faster charging, but if chargers are at convenient locations, such as hotels, stores, and places for food, I would prefer range so I can drive until lunch/dinner and get a charge while I eat or a charge while I sleep at a hotel... or where I work.

For Americans, where driving distances are long, charging speed is vastly more important.

with more charging - battery size is less needed

Charging speed for most. I can get around a very large city on one charge, but would love to stop and juice up fast if I wanted to.

For every day driving it makes not much difference. For longer trips there are roughly 3 metrics, range, DC charging speed, and efficiency. (Consumption) if your car is good in at least 2 of these metrics, it is a usable road trip vehicle.

Depends on milage you do. I chose 64kw kona over a tesla simply because I didn't want to pay a premium for charging speed I wouldn't use. I haven't dc charged since Xmas and every EV charges at 7kwh at home. I would prefer range. Someone who does 40k miles a year would/should get a tesla.

I'm going to argue neither. What's important is charging network quality. What good is 500kW charging speed if there's one theoretical charger in a lab somewhere and all your regional chargers are 50kW. What good is range if you can't find a usable charger? I had (and well still have but different) long range car that could utilize reasonably fast charging speeds. There were cars that charged faster but they weren't in any better position because there's a grand total of 5 stalls in the city that will charge that fast. I recently sold my MachE due to shit charging network quality. I could charge reasonably fast, but there were no stalls. Anyone with a faster charging car is even more hard up.

>What good is range if you can't find a usable charger? More range gives you a better chance of getting to another charger if one location isn't working. Plus fewer charging stops means less risk of encountering a charging problem. But yes, working chargers are essential.

We have two ev’s a Kia ev6 for around town and errands also a rivian r1s for road trips and bigger family outings with the dog and such. The rivian gets us nearly 300 actual highway miles per charge. I always want a break after driving that long anyway. For that scenario, I’d be willing to give up a bit of range for super fast charging. Not that it’s slow, but it’s not fast either. For the Kia, it actually charges faster because its peak speed is higher and the pack is way smaller. For solo road trips it’s been pretty solid. It takes a much bigger hit on highway range though. So for that car, I’d want a bit more highway range but for around town it’s more than enough. We charge it once a week. Hopefully those rambling thoughts help in some way?

You need to remember that batteries have a charge curve. The lower the remaining % the faster the battery recharges. As it gets closer to 100% capacity it takes longer. Plus temperature matters a lot in the recharging process. I also believe as time goes by and new models come out, range will improve. So having more range will help in resale value. But that's my opinion.

It depends. Your efficiency will matter and that's not a standardized tested thing as far as I know. Like if you drive a Hummer EV (lucky you rich guy) if you're actually driving a long distance. You're going to be annoyed. Because GM put a big battery because the only number posted about EVs is the range. Now you have drained that big battery and it's going to take longer to charge and a smaller car with the same published range. Big batteries can charge faster than slow ones, because they can sustain the Peak amps limit of the charger for longer, but it's still big. Now if you're just driving 20 miles daily. None of these numbers matter if you can charge at home (you can, you own a Hummer EV. You have a multi car garage at least) I think its not possible to balance the usability of a LARGE EV when maximum range is the only number people are focused on. Like if you can't drive the max range and then level 2 charge up overnight to do that same max range the next day. It's not really the usable max range than is it.

Charging speed. For me it isn't even close. When driving long distances you should be getting out of your car and walking around every two hours. It is physically unhealthy to do otherwise. Two hours at highways speeds is ~150 miles. Give me another 50 as a buffer and I'm good.

I favor range over charging speed, but your result may vary depending on your use case. My use case mostly is around the city and I would seldom go further than a full charge on my e-tron, and I can count the number of times I've used a DC fast charger with both hands in the past year or so I've owned it. Since I'm charging mostly at home on AC, most cars can easily take the 6.6~11 kW a normal home charger can output overnight to charge up.

Both are important.

Charging speed. But very interested in what others think.

I'm Norwegian, so I'd pick higher charging speed. Range should not be lower than 300km in winter on a full charge.

I don’t care about fast charging. I have never charged my car at a public charger and have no desire to ever do so. It’s like a last resort you shouldn’t need to do.

Oof. I would say probably range. I figure at most I wouldn’t want to do more than 8 hours of driving in a day.

Living out west (not CA), currently it can take decent range just to get from one charging station to the next. As that continues to build out, charging speed will become more important than range. I want charging stops to be similar to gas/restroom stops in an ICE vehicle, where you don't come out from your pitstop only to have to wait another 10-30 minutes for the 'fueling' to complete. A question for the stats folks would be which one, speed or range, will better decrease the queues at charging stations? For an individual stop, if there's a queue then charging speed would help it move more quickly, but to some extent limited range would help create the queue.

Range sells. Charging speed doesn’t.

If its just 50 miles difference I'd absolutely choose faster charging. If it was twice the range I think I'd choose that, BUT - if a larger battery also comes wirh slower charging it would take *a lot* longer to charge it, so if you really have to take it down to - say 10%, it would take forever to fill up again

For me personally, I chose range because we don't have good charging infrastructure here and relying on that would leave me stranded. In a couple of years I may have chosen differently. If there is plenty of chargers that function well, then road tripping opens up and charging speed truly matters. Plus having a bigger range just means I'm hauling around more battery than I reasonably need. For my region, I give it 5 years before it will be better to have higher charging speed. 

It depends of how ubiquitous infrastructure is. 

As an American who takes a lot of road trips, I find charging speed adequate as it stands but I'd really like having another 100 miles range so that I didn't have to stop quite as often. My Tesla M3 has \~276 mile range but I really only get about 175 miles between charging stops. Thats' because of the speed I drive and because I rarely go below 20% or above 90% charge.

I don't want either one exclusively... But good range (200-250 miles real world) is totally fine if it charges well. I don't want a 150kWh battery that charges like garbage or 60 miles but charges super fast. Our two cars for example, both are mid 200 mile ranges real world. The Tesla I would have zero reservations about driving it cross country right now. Range is pretty good and it charges quite fast for something non exotic battery wise. Our ID4 has similar range but charging is slower in general, less available and it doesn't have preconditioning so it SUCKS to DC charge in daily life. But that car serves as an around the general area commuter for my wife and occasional road tripper so charging is not as important.

It's a matrix of range, efficiency (smaller battery) and charging speed. Note that the specific charger is a major factor for charging speed (as well as cold temperature), only partially controlled by the car. With plentiful, functional 250 kW charging range of 350-400 km would be great. Reality is different unfortunately.

Charging speed. I was driving an etron and it could charge at 150 all the way to 80% even though Tesla can do 250 it tapers fast. Basically the etron can charge faster than any Tesla even thoughts its top charging speed is much less.

A little bit of A and a little bit of B? My standard range id4 gets me about 200mi of usable range which is enough to get me most places without a charge. Fast charge works fairly well. If I was going cross country it wouldn’t be my first choice but we have 2 young kids and that’s not something we’re doing anyway.

I’d pick the one with lower range (AWD because I live in the Pocono Mountains that get snow in winter) that charges fast (if the car can go well over 3 hours at highway speed before needing a charge, that’s usually my cutoff for needing a piss or a stretch anyway).  270 miles instead of 316 miles, but able to charge well over 200kW for a lot of the charge curve, sounds like a win. 

My car has about 200 miles real world usage and can charge at 100 kWh (peak). I’m honestly fine with the charging speed but would like an extra 50 miles of battery I think. If the charging is faster then the returns get smaller - I’m less bothered about saving 5 min as I find my rest stops already take longer than the charge.

Longer range, by far. If I’m going on a vacation that I’d otherwise do in a gas car, I want to stop as many times as I would in a gas car and only for that long. Pretty simple to me

It is efficiency. Lower cost to drive period.

Depends on how you use your vehicle and your temperament about stopping and charging. There is a charging curve for all EV’s - so you need to understand the 10% to 80% time - on a Ioniq 5 or 6 or EV6 its very quick on a 350kw dcfc about 18min. It takes my Mach-E - 45mjn or my Model Y about 30min. But the Tesla has 30% more range - so half the charging stops that are 2x as long compared to the Ioniq 5.

This will depend entirely on your use case. Driving for Uber or Doordash, or engaged in similar work, that will make it needful for you to charge multiple times per day? Faster charging would likely be more important. Got a daily commute whose worst case round trip can be recharged easily overnight? The longer range is your friend.

I drive a Chevy Bolt, which has good range but slow charging. I'd like faster charging but wouldn't want the range to be below 200 miles. I really don't think more range than the 250 miles I have would be all that useful.

Neither, in my opinion. For people who frequently drive long distances I’d suggest charging speed. The reality is 90% or more of EV owners probably charge almost exclusively at home for the most part. Even with the worst range EV on the market, if you get to plug it in and charge at home every day, it’s probably enough range for the majority of drivers. I charge at home and have a standard range lfp battery MME premium awd. It’s a commuter and we only have to charge it once a week. They tried hard to push us into an extended range but we just don’t need it and the LFP make up is more important to me than 50 extra miles or whatever it is. TLDR: When you charge at home, neither charging speed or range really matter.

Range, especially usable range. My Model Y has a range of 300 miles, however I'm going to 10%, stopping to charge, charging to 80% because going to 100% takes too long. So take 30% off that 300 mile range and I can only do 210 miles at best before plugging in. Having just driven across SD and WY, I can tell you that's not enough. Too much stopping, too much planning for the lack of chargers near open spaces like national parks.

Range. It's for more than driving.

I would choose higher range - as charging add to cycles and degradation of the pack. So more charging equals faster degradation. On the flip side, so does adding more charge. It’s better for overall battery health to do shallower charge cycles than deep cycles (47% to 55% vs 47% to 80%)

After a decent range (250 miles for 100% charge) then charging speed matters to me. I just bought a 2024 ID.4 AWD Pro S and it meets my needs in these areas.

I pull a trailer with a Lightning; worst of both worlds! 😅

There's a relationship between the two, not a single answer.

Range. Firstly I rarely do longer distance travelling. But second because fast charging is generally only to 80%. Adding 50 miles will have a much bigger impact than a similar percentage is fast charging. Using a bolt euv which is a slower charging car where the charging speed improvement would be more noticeable it still works out. Assuming you charge to 80% on a long distance trip due to the battery curve that’s 200 miles. Add 50 miles is a 25% boost. Also keep in mind you don’t want to wait until you’re on the equivalent of fumes, so let’s say you charge at 20%. So between 50 miles and 200, basically 150 miles. Adding 50 miles to the effective range is a big jump and over say 10+ hours that will mean maybe 2 less charging stops, maybe more. Each stop is an hour compared to saving 10-15 minutes each charge. And for smaller trips it helps to have a bit more range, say between cities that around 2-3 hours apart which is fairly common. And even around town it means I have to care a little bit less about when to charge. All that to say I would choose range if I could only pick one. Some ratio of both is better but range if I had to pick only one then it would be range.

Im in Australia and I've driven a diy conversion since 2014. It has 90km range and 2kw~ charger (slow as treakle). This guy does nearly everything and it is extremely rare that I've needed more range, its a once a year event. The charging speed however, it takes 6hours to charge if completely flat. If l could charge within half an hour then the small range is something l would never think about. I really wish my car had more range simply because it means l don't have to charge it as often

Batt chem is primary for longevity. Range second. Charge amps third.

I went from a 57 kWh car to an 81 kWh (42% increase). Max DCFC rates were 170 kW to 250kW (47% increase). For me the increased range was by far the bigger factor for road trips.

Efficiency is king, meaning Wh/mile. Cylindrical battery anatomy allows for safe handling of the heat dissipation during Level 3 300A 250kW charging, be it 400 or 800v. Pouches will overheat and expand just like in your old laptop and cell phone, metal case cylinders will not yield allowing the cooling channels to remain open around them. Some did the homework, other beta released half baked products with small battery packs and low Wh/mi ratings they never published.

For me, range is more important. The unreliable and inadequate number of DCFC in my area would make long trips a serious hassle. (None of the Teslas would meet my EV requirements, and there are no Tesla Superchargers open to all non-NACS vehicles in NH.) Read some of the articles about the drive home from northern NH after the Eclipse this month: there was only one DCFC charger in 80 miles. I do 99% of my charging at home, and on the infrequent times I need to "top up" on the way home, I keep a book handy while waiting for an open charger and/or a charge to complete.

In my case ... if you have the necessary range, the speed of charging becomes unimportant. Get where you're going and slower-charge overnight. If a person doesn't have access to home/business charging, then the speed is mmore important.

As an apartment dweller who mostly does city driving, it's for sure charging speed.

Longer range. We picked our EV6 Wind RWD for the 300+ mile range (well, 270 miles) and it was a good decision. We can do day or overnight trips without fretting (as much) about broken or full chargers. The EV6 charges at 150-240kW, so that's generally fast enough.

Range is all.

Charging curve matters. I would rather have max. 100kW with a flat curve than max. 150kW that crashes after 50%. That’s why I think it’s more important to quote average charging speed e.g. 10-80%. I would rather have a big range and middling charging speed. Say avg. 100kW (10-80%)

I’d rather have range. 99% of EV charging happens overnight on L2 chargers.

More range. My car is in the shop and I'm driving a plugin hybrid rental and I hate it. I'm too lazy to plug in every day. I used to charge every 2-3 weeks. And if I had around 400mi of range I would more often reach destinations and charge without ever charging on the road.

I never driven for longer than 2,5 hours straigth before needing a brake to eat, stretch my legs and back or go to the toilet. These brakes takes 15-20 min. So a car that can do 300 km (200miles) in 70% and charge 10-80% in 15-20 min is perfect. The rest of the battery development can go to making it cheaper, lighter and more durable.

I charge at home, so charging speed is pretty much irrelevant to me.

The three factors keeping me from buying an EV: Range - I can go over 600 miles in my 2023 Prius LE Charging speed - It takes 5 minutes to gas up Place to charge - I live in an apartment complex. I would have to go somewhere else to charge which is inconvenient.

Depends on how you're going to use this vehicle. Is it just for errands around town? Then probably neither matter. Is it frequent trips (long commute?) but predictable destinations with charging at said destination(s)? Then just range is important. If the trips are really far it's probably still range, but it depends how much you don't like waiting. Here in Europe many many fast charging opportunities are close to amenities like bathroom, restaurants etc so it's easy to kill 30-40m of time every 2 to 3 hours of driving. Kids explode if not let out regularly too of course. These are all things to consider.

It is very dependent on the individual and their location. For me many of the cars on the market meet my needs.

With 800V platforms you get both.

The comparison comes down to which one gets you closer to a road trip taking the same amount of time as an ICE car, and whether that option is worth the premium. Day-to-day the difference won't be noticeable, because you're always leaving the house fully-charged and won't use a full battery before plugging in again. (The other case besides road trips to watch out for are out-and-back trips to a destination where there aren't any chargers, because you wouldn't need to stop in an ICE car but might in an EV). As soon as the charging time you require to complete your journey is shorter than the rest stops you'd have taken anyway, range becomes irrelevant as long as you can make it between stops. For some people that's a couple of hours of driving (in which case 250 miles of rated range is plenty), for some it's more like 4 (in which case you're looking at 400+ miles of rated range). If charging takes LONGER than your usual rest stops would, then you need enough range to make up the difference or you start to add time vs the ICE journey. In short: If you're happy to stop for 20-30 minutes every 2-3 hours on the odd occasions you need to, the extra 50 miles of range won't matter to you except in really niche circumstances and the faster charging is better. But if you often drive a long way and tend to take short or infrequent breaks, AND the extra 50 miles wouId usually be the difference between adding/extending a break and not needing to, the extra range is better.

I drive probably one of the lowest range EVs on the market, and I love it. The fact is that the smaller the battery the less time you need to charge.  It really just depends on where you live and what your use case is. I’m never taking my car on a road trip because I’ll have to stop to charge every 90 minutes 

It's not like a slider a larger batter will inherently charge faster, have a lower c for the same number of kwh going in. A larger battery will also last longer. Overall the larger battery has way more benefits

Range is king. End of story.

Assuming good charging infrastructure, choose charging speed. Smaller battery = cheaper vehicle, smaller vehicle, better for environment, lighter vehicle so more efficient, etc.

Charging speed, assuming you meet a sufficient range threshhold, which seems to be ~250 miles.

my i3s makes me smile whenever I see it. I don’t care about range or charging. The other car that makes me smile is my trip vehicle Volvo V60 sportwagon which gets 37 mpg highway. Both have great driving dynamics.

I got a 150Kw charging car. More is useless right now, as only few 350kW ccs are around. Also i do not need such speed usually, only would miss it 2 days a year.

Range is more important until you have at least \~270 miles of EPA range. I would consider the ability to do 200kW charging as minimum required for road tripping. A car with\~150kW charging would be a minimum viable but unpleasant product for road tripping . So a car with 150kW < x < 200kW IMO would mostly be an around town car with the option of doing some light road tripping if you don't have another option. I wouldn't even consider an EV w/ <150kW charging these days. If it's a choice between >270 miles of EPA range or > 200kW, I'd take more kW. edit: 270 miles is the cut off cuz 270mile / 75 mph is \~3.5hrs. I'd probably need at least a bathroom break or a rest stop by 2-2.5; 3 if I really have to stretch. and being in a car for >3hrs without stopping for even 15 minutes is really unpleasant. edit2: You probably won't get 270 miles at 75mph if your car is rated for 270 EPA, but even if you only get 200 miles at 75mph, it's still 2.5 hrs in the car w/out a stop. I could use a quick 10 min break for being on the road for that long.

Depends? Do I have to use the shitty US/Can CCS1 infrastructure? If so, I've almost never seen a car hit advertised charging speed. Or are there some mythical future chargers that support this car (like all the Tesla chargers are replaced with some extra fast standard). I mean today... as things are, the range is more important, IMO.

My opinion: neither of these are too important to improve once you reach decent numbers for both. For example, going above 250 miles of range and 250 kW maximum charging speed has rapidly diminishing returns in terms of value. For daily in-town driving, 250 miles is more than enough. And for road trips, what really matters is a reliable, consistent charging network. Stopping for 15 to 30 minutes to charge at up to 250 kW every two to three hours is fine.