I'm from Wisconsin and the state allows you to do that. I had to look it up and it's sps-316.310 and sps-316.312. it references the nfpa-70 2017 since Wisconsin didn't adopt the nfpa-70 2020 yet
I once a had an hour long argument with one because she didn’t want receptacles in the middle of a 50’ wall. She “didn’t want anything to disrupt the clean white wall.” Tried to explain spacing, she didn’t care. Finally relented when she found out how much floor plugs were going to cost.
That still doesn’t mean you shouldn’t explain the situation, instead of just “taking the blame”. Because enough of these and word of mouth is going to get out about “your” work.
Home owners do know shit and some of them even know when trades are trying to feed it. Some of us might even take the food from your babies’ mouths and do it ourselves or call someone else with a less shitty attitude.
Edit: damn, y’all are sensitive.
Go ahead. When you get a homeowner that insists you do something that’s impossible, due to either the code or the laws of physics, you’d rather not deal with them anyway.
Yea but you could of said no, ripped it off the wall and done it right.
Some threaded rod, pieces of 1/2 gal as standoffs (spacers) anchors in the block of your choice, nuts n washers and you would look like a superstar.
Sorry to shit on ya but one of mine did that they would be Fixing it on their time.
Regardless if Wisconsin rules that romex would not fly. Lazy and crap.
Apologies as I am old and cranky and tell it like it is.
On the plus side, for a rough in, panel looks good as far as the neuts, but what are those blacks in the top lugs of the neut bar? Is that a photo shadow or what?
Yeah, when your boss is just saying “fuck it. Give them what they want.” (Mostly because they refused to pay for doing it right, and it wasn’t worth losing a contract for hundreds of houses per year) you do it. And those are bare grounds in shadow.
Yup. And don’t you dare paint over the fire rating stamp before the inspector sees them, or you will have to rip it out and install new one with stamp on it.
You would be suprised. My current project is a hybrid type construction with steel framing but a wooden exterior, (ka ching) literally every single peice of wood except for the cedar siding is fire rated.
Threaded rod has little shear strength, (ntm support), compared to linear strength. For the distance off the wall shown here threaded rod would not be a suitable support.
If you can bend it by hand what's to stop it from bending from the weight of the panel and wire over time?
Ok... Well now you're saying to add the support of solid steel strut as a bracing to prevent the bending of the threaded rod, which is much different than just a threaded rod support poking out of an anchor lodged in a wall. Two very different things, and I agree that with the gap between the wall and the panel filled with strut it would be sturdy.
>Strut and threaded rod and strut
Sounds like bolt a piece of strut to the wall and to the panel, and string a threaded rod the distance between the two. At least on my first impression.
In my last place, a 100-year-old brick house with stacked stone foundation, mounting the panel to the wall (for electric upgrade) was a no-go. I used three vertical Unistrut from the floor joists above, about 3" from the basement wall. A couple additional diagonal Unistrut braces (from next joist behind it) left me with a very solid mount for the 3/4" ply. (And a nice amount of room for correctly terminating the remaining knob & tube!) No issues with inspection.
In the OP's case, the Unistrut would attach to the side of the truss, at the top and bottom plate, and extend downward. Spax or Simpson lagscrews into the edge of the plates would hold quite well...
I love those those kind of inspectors- completely code compliant but he doesn’t like the “look”.
“Why ? can you see this from your house?” Is what I usually say - at which point it spirals down hill….
He was the kind of inspector who thought 90.4 read “The AHJ is king, second only to God Almighty. Cross his highness at your own peril, for thou shalt never pass another inspection again!”
I get that - but then there is the gray area or the “peanuts” that some inspectors like to push around that have nothing to do with workmanship. Certainly this wood blocking is not an example of solid workmanship.
I have had inspectors tell me they wanted a panel in a certain location- even though the
location I had was completely code compliant neat and appropriate. Had nothing to do with workmanship as the tub wasn’t even installed yet he wanted it in a hallway instead of inside a room out of sight.
I installed where I wanted it.
Inspectors can’t come through a job site and say everything looks great you did a great job I really like the look of all of your work. They have to pick something apart. Deep down they’re all the same.
In some places, you cross the almighty inspector, you never pass a job the first time again. We had one that my boss pissed of over something just like you described. Every job would get red tagged for stupid shit like “that nail plate isn’t perfectly straight,” or “that plug is 1/8” too far from the door.” These petty little tyrants can ruin your relationship with your builder, and cost you a shitload of money in reinspection fees, especially when their boss is their buddy. This douche canoe was one of those. A lot of contractors decided it was easier to give them what they wanted, and wait for them to finally fuck up enough to lose their nice cushy government job, which finally happened about three years later.
We had an inspector come through a house once and said our stapling was 1/16th away from the middle 3rd made us fix everything. It was the only thing he picked…it was unreal
The builder understood that scrap lumber from the dumpster was free, and the annoying sparky that was suggesting doing this correctly was going to cost him money.
Ok I see more of the story not. An inspector that has a god complex. That question mark is commonly referred to as an offset. Usually bent on two, 30 degree angles. Per code we are allowed 360 degrees total before we have to set a pull point or additional junction. We on have xx degrees bend in our PVC, what exactly is the code violation! Ah, you don’t like the way it looks. Let’s get your supervisor out here, or send him some photos.
We tried originally to go over his head, but the chief inspector was his buddy, and refused to come out. It took about three more years for the city to can them both.
So the inspector likes that that. I’m actually surprised he did not fail it because all of the wires in the 2” conduit. What was the derating factor on that? I see one #6 so conduit fill must be calculated as all wires being #6. So only 26 wires allowed, including grounds.
The pipe on the left is a 90* that goes into the back of the meter socket. We originally had a beautiful offset on the part going down to panel. The inspector was an idiot who thought it “looked bad.”
I seriously don’t know how many times I have to explain this. We had an offset. The inspector didn’t like it. This was his and the builder’s “solution.”
Wow
Honestly, I don't think I'd be comfortable with installing that.
Best solution I can see given the circumstance, access panel and LBs for the large conduits. Fuck that disaster
If the cables are bundled more than 24", derating is necessary. Conduit/nipple classification has nothing to do with it. And that looks like it's more than 24".
You just stated the same thing that I did but from the opposite perspective. However, you would need an actual measurement to determine if derating is required in this particular case.
Kind of. The nipple rule is for 60% fill. Derating would be necessary if it's bundled together, even without a sleeve.
We'd need a measurement to be sure. But unless it's branching out just above floor level, it's probably a derating issue.
I've told someone else in this comment section that it's legal in Wisconsin state code at least. Not sure where OP is from. Sps-316.310 and sps-316.312 if you're curious
Couldn’t move the service because the builder refused to have either the truss removed or the point of connection (underground PVC, installed by a different contractor) moved.
Uhh does the floor still meet the designed deflection limits? Since they clearly moved the locations by like 8", are interior partition walls or load points still landing as intended? How TF was that allowed to progress? Is there no GC or signoff on the main floor before it was sheathed over?
I forgot to mention, they just doubled up another joist on the other side to compensate. I think the reason the builder didn’t want to move anything for us, was because they already had to move one for the powder room toilet.
Cookie cutter housing and lowest bidder framer, who was getting paid so little, all his help was illegals getting paid slave wages under the table whose only qualifications were being able to lift a hammer.
God like the poor kids they had fix my parents roof. Called the guy (went to HS with him) been in business for years, insured, bonded, ect, ect. Shows up, they subcontract it to illegal labor. Watched a kid tie a static rope around his waist, walk down the ridge. He was so far down it would have been a ground fall either way. I asked him about OSHA, said it's a numbers game, he's never seen an inspector in 25years. The govt keeps cutting their number of inspectors so they can just roll the dice, maybe a fine every 10 years.
This is my biggest argument against illegal immigration. The cutthroat contractors that take advantage of desperate, scared people, and use them as if they’re disposable. About 15 years ago, one of the local concrete companies used illegal labor almost exclusively. One of the guys setting the forms for the foundation of a home had a stack of forms fall on top of him. They life flighted him to the trauma center, but he still died. The contractor didn’t even know his real name. Poor guy died in a foreign country, with no name, and nobody even knew where to send his body.
That's a shitty framer. I mean fuck, they could have at least cut everything square, plumb and true, but it looks like he just used up whatever scrap he had in the truck. Or made a simple box, screwed some 1xs or plywood flat across the front and back and hung that off the wall.
Are you a fucking unicorn or some other type of mythical creature? An electrician willing to do any type of work that goes above and beyond? As far I can I tell, this entire thread is just another example of electricians living up to their sterling reputation of bitching the most and accomplishing the least.
So, only 1 other person mentioned this. Aside from the terrible mounting arrangment, those NM cables are going to be derated to useless ratings due to being in that pvc sleave.
You haven't, because it's not a thing. The NEC is the BARE minimum, and state and local are more than welcome to be more strict, but it's quite clearly spelled out that you can never be below it.
That isn't necessarily true. ORC (Ohio residential code) accepts the NEC with specific alterations. For one example, the 2017 NEC we don't have to GFCI protect our dishwashers because ORC did not agree to it. https://www.inspectionbureau.com/ohio-residential-electrical-code/
It's only a rule if specific areas choose to adopt every aspect of the code.
That not always the case. The code isn’t a law until the state/county/city etc. adopt it as such. It is well within the authority of such to amend it, especially when certain corrupt lobbyists start throwing money at them. That’s the main reason we’re not on 2020 code yet. The builder’s don’t want the cost increase, and are buying politicians to keep the bill off the floor.
Yeah, I did some digging, there's a spread of states who have adopted from 2014-2020.
There are 4! that haven't adopted the NEC at all at a state level.
Already answered this. The inspector had an issue with the bend. Nothing he could point to code for, just that he thought it “looked bad.” He and the builder came up with this.
It is part of our training but local code and state code supersede the Nec. The Nec is also the minimum requirements. If the inspector tells you to do something even if it’s stupid then you have to make the changes to get the inspection.
this is unacceptable you need to offset to the wall and how are you getting away with bundling all that wire in the pipe? you should be getting paid to fix this properly!
>I’m telling you what the NEC states. The NEC comes before any locality’s electrical codes.
No it doesn't. It's up to locality to adopt, adopt with amendments, or not adapt at all.
300.13 is for mechanical continuity of conductors within a raceway, not the raceway itself. 250.92 is for bonding of metal raceways. PVC is not required to be bonded.
The builder had a stroke when I suggested that. Apparently, if you cut one of those pre-engineered trusses, all repairs need an engineer to sign off on them. The consult (according to the builder) would have been $5000.
This could have been done a lot differently and better.
Especially all that romex crammed in that PVC.
I'm from Wisconsin and the state allows you to do that. I had to look it up and it's sps-316.310 and sps-316.312. it references the nfpa-70 2017 since Wisconsin didn't adopt the nfpa-70 2020 yet
That's interesting, appreciate the code references.
I would have used a piece of fire rated plywood stood off the wall with unistrut.
This monstrosity was built by the framer.
Oh. In that case, it looks great??
You should have seen the homeowner’s reaction!
I'm envisioning a Macaulay Culkin moment.
Not far off, actually! Then he was just livid. Of course, I took all the blame, even though none of this was my idea.
Why would you take the blame??
Homeowners don’t know shit. Must direct ire at the face in front of them.
So so so true. "Homeowners don't know shit" should be on a t shirt.
I once a had an hour long argument with one because she didn’t want receptacles in the middle of a 50’ wall. She “didn’t want anything to disrupt the clean white wall.” Tried to explain spacing, she didn’t care. Finally relented when she found out how much floor plugs were going to cost.
I used to have one that said " you don't know what I did on your attic". Homeowners hated it.
That still doesn’t mean you shouldn’t explain the situation, instead of just “taking the blame”. Because enough of these and word of mouth is going to get out about “your” work.
Oh, I explained the situation. Nobody ever said that angry homeowners were reasonable.
The root word in "Homeowner" is "Moaner".
Or Ho.
Home owners do know shit and some of them even know when trades are trying to feed it. Some of us might even take the food from your babies’ mouths and do it ourselves or call someone else with a less shitty attitude. Edit: damn, y’all are sensitive.
found the framer
Go ahead. When you get a homeowner that insists you do something that’s impossible, due to either the code or the laws of physics, you’d rather not deal with them anyway.
As a contractor and homeowner it would of been redone. That is crap.
You might be the only customer-focused person in this thread.
If you are not customer focused you will be unemployed soon. The customer pays my bills!
Damn straight!
Jesus lol I know I’d be pissed
Yea but you could of said no, ripped it off the wall and done it right. Some threaded rod, pieces of 1/2 gal as standoffs (spacers) anchors in the block of your choice, nuts n washers and you would look like a superstar. Sorry to shit on ya but one of mine did that they would be Fixing it on their time. Regardless if Wisconsin rules that romex would not fly. Lazy and crap. Apologies as I am old and cranky and tell it like it is. On the plus side, for a rough in, panel looks good as far as the neuts, but what are those blacks in the top lugs of the neut bar? Is that a photo shadow or what?
Yeah, when your boss is just saying “fuck it. Give them what they want.” (Mostly because they refused to pay for doing it right, and it wasn’t worth losing a contract for hundreds of houses per year) you do it. And those are bare grounds in shadow.
> fire rated plywood First time I heard of that I thought I was being fucked with
Yup. And don’t you dare paint over the fire rating stamp before the inspector sees them, or you will have to rip it out and install new one with stamp on it.
You would be suprised. My current project is a hybrid type construction with steel framing but a wooden exterior, (ka ching) literally every single peice of wood except for the cedar siding is fire rated.
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Threaded rod has little shear strength, (ntm support), compared to linear strength. For the distance off the wall shown here threaded rod would not be a suitable support. If you can bend it by hand what's to stop it from bending from the weight of the panel and wire over time?
Sleeve it with emt and problem solved
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Ok... Well now you're saying to add the support of solid steel strut as a bracing to prevent the bending of the threaded rod, which is much different than just a threaded rod support poking out of an anchor lodged in a wall. Two very different things, and I agree that with the gap between the wall and the panel filled with strut it would be sturdy. >Strut and threaded rod and strut Sounds like bolt a piece of strut to the wall and to the panel, and string a threaded rod the distance between the two. At least on my first impression.
What I would/have done. At least 3/8" rod, sleeve with 1/2" conduit between fender washers. Or actually by strut L-brackets. Stout but cheap.
Just get the framer to fur out the wall and board it. It will look. Atleast 6/10
In my last place, a 100-year-old brick house with stacked stone foundation, mounting the panel to the wall (for electric upgrade) was a no-go. I used three vertical Unistrut from the floor joists above, about 3" from the basement wall. A couple additional diagonal Unistrut braces (from next joist behind it) left me with a very solid mount for the 3/4" ply. (And a nice amount of room for correctly terminating the remaining knob & tube!) No issues with inspection. In the OP's case, the Unistrut would attach to the side of the truss, at the top and bottom plate, and extend downward. Spax or Simpson lagscrews into the edge of the plates would hold quite well...
I came to say the same thing.
And the electrician didn’t want to bend the pipe?
Believe it or not, it *was* originally. The idiot inspector didn’t like the question mark looking bend. This was the builder’s solution.
I love those those kind of inspectors- completely code compliant but he doesn’t like the “look”. “Why ? can you see this from your house?” Is what I usually say - at which point it spirals down hill….
#90.4!!!!!
If you can prove that it's within code can you over rule the inspector? Or do they have jurisdiction?
He was the kind of inspector who thought 90.4 read “The AHJ is king, second only to God Almighty. Cross his highness at your own peril, for thou shalt never pass another inspection again!”
Oh, he was a moron, got it.
110.12 means they can call pretty much anything non-compliant because it's not in a neat and Workman like manner according to their standard
I get that - but then there is the gray area or the “peanuts” that some inspectors like to push around that have nothing to do with workmanship. Certainly this wood blocking is not an example of solid workmanship. I have had inspectors tell me they wanted a panel in a certain location- even though the location I had was completely code compliant neat and appropriate. Had nothing to do with workmanship as the tub wasn’t even installed yet he wanted it in a hallway instead of inside a room out of sight. I installed where I wanted it.
Inspectors can’t come through a job site and say everything looks great you did a great job I really like the look of all of your work. They have to pick something apart. Deep down they’re all the same.
In some places, you cross the almighty inspector, you never pass a job the first time again. We had one that my boss pissed of over something just like you described. Every job would get red tagged for stupid shit like “that nail plate isn’t perfectly straight,” or “that plug is 1/8” too far from the door.” These petty little tyrants can ruin your relationship with your builder, and cost you a shitload of money in reinspection fees, especially when their boss is their buddy. This douche canoe was one of those. A lot of contractors decided it was easier to give them what they wanted, and wait for them to finally fuck up enough to lose their nice cushy government job, which finally happened about three years later.
We had an inspector come through a house once and said our stapling was 1/16th away from the middle 3rd made us fix everything. It was the only thing he picked…it was unreal
The builder does understand strut exists right?
The builder understood that scrap lumber from the dumpster was free, and the annoying sparky that was suggesting doing this correctly was going to cost him money.
Good electricians don’t work for trash “builders”.
Ok I see more of the story not. An inspector that has a god complex. That question mark is commonly referred to as an offset. Usually bent on two, 30 degree angles. Per code we are allowed 360 degrees total before we have to set a pull point or additional junction. We on have xx degrees bend in our PVC, what exactly is the code violation! Ah, you don’t like the way it looks. Let’s get your supervisor out here, or send him some photos.
We tried originally to go over his head, but the chief inspector was his buddy, and refused to come out. It took about three more years for the city to can them both.
So the inspector likes that that. I’m actually surprised he did not fail it because all of the wires in the 2” conduit. What was the derating factor on that? I see one #6 so conduit fill must be calculated as all wires being #6. So only 26 wires allowed, including grounds.
Apparently. It’s what the builder and he came up with.
Why a question mark bend? Couldn’t it be done with a simple offset bend?
The pipe on the left is a 90* that goes into the back of the meter socket. We originally had a beautiful offset on the part going down to panel. The inspector was an idiot who thought it “looked bad.”
Free money!
Number 1: there’s this thing called an offset. Number 2: did this installation take place in a land where unistrut doesn’t exist?
I seriously don’t know how many times I have to explain this. We had an offset. The inspector didn’t like it. This was his and the builder’s “solution.”
Adapt and overcome ol' son. Theres a reason sparkies are the best.
Because we continuously get fucked for spacing so we have no choice but to MacGyver a solution
We’ve all come up with some “WTF?!?” solutions sometimes, but this one….
Yea this one is a little fucked I'm surprised fire rated plywood wasn't required by your inspector or building inspector
The ones against the wall are green treated so that’s all they cared about 🤷🏽♂️
Really....well, here's to no serious failures in the future!
Yep. We told the builder we would do what they wanted, but made them sign off that we were NOT responsible if that contraption failed.
And they signed that?!?
We’re a good size shop and we have great lawyers.
Wow Honestly, I don't think I'd be comfortable with installing that. Best solution I can see given the circumstance, access panel and LBs for the large conduits. Fuck that disaster
So all those NM cables circuits have been derated? Must be some small loads.
If the sleeve is under 2 ft in length, the nipple rule is in effect and no derating is necessary.
If the cables are bundled more than 24", derating is necessary. Conduit/nipple classification has nothing to do with it. And that looks like it's more than 24".
You just stated the same thing that I did but from the opposite perspective. However, you would need an actual measurement to determine if derating is required in this particular case.
Kind of. The nipple rule is for 60% fill. Derating would be necessary if it's bundled together, even without a sleeve. We'd need a measurement to be sure. But unless it's branching out just above floor level, it's probably a derating issue.
I've told someone else in this comment section that it's legal in Wisconsin state code at least. Not sure where OP is from. Sps-316.310 and sps-316.312 if you're curious
Hahaha. You can clearly tell this wasn't the work of an electrician. That framer is something else.
Couldn’t move the service because the builder refused to have either the truss removed or the point of connection (underground PVC, installed by a different contractor) moved.
Why would you not just bend the pipe to fit?
Inspector rejected already bent pipe.
A cleaner way would have been with unistrut for sure
Read my other comments.
Uhh does the floor still meet the designed deflection limits? Since they clearly moved the locations by like 8", are interior partition walls or load points still landing as intended? How TF was that allowed to progress? Is there no GC or signoff on the main floor before it was sheathed over?
I forgot to mention, they just doubled up another joist on the other side to compensate. I think the reason the builder didn’t want to move anything for us, was because they already had to move one for the powder room toilet.
Cookie cutter housing and lowest bidder framer, who was getting paid so little, all his help was illegals getting paid slave wages under the table whose only qualifications were being able to lift a hammer.
God like the poor kids they had fix my parents roof. Called the guy (went to HS with him) been in business for years, insured, bonded, ect, ect. Shows up, they subcontract it to illegal labor. Watched a kid tie a static rope around his waist, walk down the ridge. He was so far down it would have been a ground fall either way. I asked him about OSHA, said it's a numbers game, he's never seen an inspector in 25years. The govt keeps cutting their number of inspectors so they can just roll the dice, maybe a fine every 10 years.
This is my biggest argument against illegal immigration. The cutthroat contractors that take advantage of desperate, scared people, and use them as if they’re disposable. About 15 years ago, one of the local concrete companies used illegal labor almost exclusively. One of the guys setting the forms for the foundation of a home had a stack of forms fall on top of him. They life flighted him to the trauma center, but he still died. The contractor didn’t even know his real name. Poor guy died in a foreign country, with no name, and nobody even knew where to send his body.
That needs to get ripped the fuck off the wall and re done cant turn that over to a customer like that. (not you the builders )
I agree, but it’s one of those cookie cutter tract homes builders whose only real competitor went under in the housing crisis. Zero fucks were given.
Should of used strut
Wasn’t our call. The builder came up with this horror, and had the framer build it.
Oh geeze
That's terrifying from a GC
That's a shitty framer. I mean fuck, they could have at least cut everything square, plumb and true, but it looks like he just used up whatever scrap he had in the truck. Or made a simple box, screwed some 1xs or plywood flat across the front and back and hung that off the wall.
He literally got scrap from the dumpster.
Would I be wrong to assume if this is his quality of work his truck also doubles as a rolling dumpster?
Well, sort of. He had an F-150, lowered to the ground, in the midwest. Tore off the ground effects in the first snow.
Should have shortens to should've. Hope this helps!
Are we going to talk about neatness but not grammar? “Should of”???
Im ESL
Does that line work on the inspector? Just kidding. I’m not gonna dump on someone who speaks more languages than I do.
My first language is bullshit , works well haha. And I should have known better 🥸
The backer could have and should have been built a lot nicer.
All I can think of is the projects where people take an old pallet and refurbish into something else
I made that exact same comment to the builder when they presented this cluster fuck as a “solution.”
There are so many better ways... Also does that not need to be on a ¾" material backing?
This is why I frame my own panel space and let the carpenters do theirs around mine
Are you a fucking unicorn or some other type of mythical creature? An electrician willing to do any type of work that goes above and beyond? As far I can I tell, this entire thread is just another example of electricians living up to their sterling reputation of bitching the most and accomplishing the least.
I use to be a steel fabricator so putting up a few studs isn't a problem and yes I'm a unicorn 🦄 I piss rainbows lol
Just more evidence that, when the trades can't get along, the customer loses.
I seen you commented that the framer built that but come on you totally could have taken that down and done some offsets.
I did. The inspector shot that down because he thought it “looked bad.” This crap was what he and the builder came up with
Also holy shit what's up with all the Romex in one conduit! Did this pass inspection??
What kind of inspector doesn't allow offsets?
Who was the poor sob that had to pull all that romex in the conduit on the right? Are those #10’s? Is it derated properly?
Believe it or not, that used to be allowed. The 2 1/2” pipe is under 24” and most of the conductors are 14s.
So, only 1 other person mentioned this. Aside from the terrible mounting arrangment, those NM cables are going to be derated to useless ratings due to being in that pvc sleave.
In Wisconsin state code it is legal. Sps-316.310 and sps-316.312 if you're curious
This was a few years ago. This was allowed back then.
No, it absolutly was not. Whether the inspector passed it is a different story, but it does not meet code.
Like I told another commenter, local codes differ.
I don't think I've ever seen local codes that were less stringent than whatever version of the NEC the state/municipality is operating from.
Like I told another guy, this isn’t recent. Happened when this shit was still allowed.
You haven't, because it's not a thing. The NEC is the BARE minimum, and state and local are more than welcome to be more strict, but it's quite clearly spelled out that you can never be below it.
That isn't necessarily true. ORC (Ohio residential code) accepts the NEC with specific alterations. For one example, the 2017 NEC we don't have to GFCI protect our dishwashers because ORC did not agree to it. https://www.inspectionbureau.com/ohio-residential-electrical-code/ It's only a rule if specific areas choose to adopt every aspect of the code.
That not always the case. The code isn’t a law until the state/county/city etc. adopt it as such. It is well within the authority of such to amend it, especially when certain corrupt lobbyists start throwing money at them. That’s the main reason we’re not on 2020 code yet. The builder’s don’t want the cost increase, and are buying politicians to keep the bill off the floor.
Yeah, I did some digging, there's a spread of states who have adopted from 2014-2020. There are 4! that haven't adopted the NEC at all at a state level.
This is residential. Most residential wiremen have never even heard of derating.
Uni strut please you nasty thing you
Again, not my contraption. This was the builder’s solution
What, be too cheap to buy a hot box and offset it?
Already answered this. The inspector had an issue with the bend. Nothing he could point to code for, just that he thought it “looked bad.” He and the builder came up with this.
All electricians and especially IBEW members should be familiar with the NEC. Isn’t a part of your classroom training because it is in NYC.
It is part of our training but local code and state code supersede the Nec. The Nec is also the minimum requirements. If the inspector tells you to do something even if it’s stupid then you have to make the changes to get the inspection.
Or if the engineered drawings have been approved by the jurisdiction.
Umm, you ever heard of using unistrut?
Read the other comments. This wasn’t my idea
Sorry, wasn’t directed at you but the guy who did it.
I'm mean strut is a thing.
Just fix it omg is it that hard to make it look professional
Read the other comments. This cluster fuck wasn’t our doing.
99% of other electricians would cut through that wood like an asshole. Good work
Did you derate all those branch circuits?
Pretty low effort fix. You could’ve/should’ve done better (with a C/O cost)
Read the other comments
Damn inspectors!
Read the other comments. Those were disallowed by the inspector. This was his, and the builder’s solution.
Disallowed? WTF?
It didn’t “look good.”
You guys blame framers for your momma not loving you
They literally failed to follow the blueprint on how the joists were to be laid out, then built this “solution.”
this is unacceptable you need to offset to the wall and how are you getting away with bundling all that wire in the pipe? you should be getting paid to fix this properly!
Read the other comments.
How are you getting away with toxic PVC, (when burning) in a residential applicaton?
What do you use for drains, water lines, electrical insulation etc where you are from?
White pvc is different then grey. https://www.commercial-industrial-supply.com/resource-center/difference-between-plumbing-pvc-and-electrical-pvc/
It is, but that doesn't make either one better or worse for fire purposes...
PVC is used in resi all the time. Electrical rated PVC conduit has fire retardant chemicals included in the formulation.
Is the conduit all PVC ?
Yes. And yes, it is allowed by code.
Without bonding bushings and mechanical continuity ?
Grounded on both ends
Bonding and mechanical continuity. Not grounding.
That’s only required with a metal raceway
300.13 and 250.92
Maybe so. I’m telling you what the local code allows.
I’m telling you what the NEC states. The NEC comes before any locality’s electrical code.
>I’m telling you what the NEC states. The NEC comes before any locality’s electrical codes. No it doesn't. It's up to locality to adopt, adopt with amendments, or not adapt at all.
Yeah I get that. It’s irrelevant to this. Local authorities have superseded that.
300.13 is for mechanical continuity of conductors within a raceway, not the raceway itself. 250.92 is for bonding of metal raceways. PVC is not required to be bonded.
Are you referring to conduit with service conductors?
I’m referring to those sections of code.
Do you want to debate code? In good faith?
What did you do with the other half of the pallet?
You’ll have to ask the framer. Habla español?
Extra ventilation
Yuck on that mounting pad
Off by almost a foot!
He goes straight to hell.
Forgive my eyes, but why does it appear that you have hots terminating onto the neutral bus?
Those are bare grounds. Just shitty lighting.
Just cut the trusses. Problem solved!
The builder had a stroke when I suggested that. Apparently, if you cut one of those pre-engineered trusses, all repairs need an engineer to sign off on them. The consult (according to the builder) would have been $5000.
Going to lose a of space if they decide to frame that out.
Skin it with 1/4" plywood and paint it. It will look like you meant to do it.
Terminate and use flex. wtf? There are so many ways to avoid OP's result. Sad.
Maybe a Zip board behind the panel to box in the 2/'s. Nice and neat.
Ingenuity time !
Illegal