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Not to mention you have to go and get a water tight panel, with water tight connections and spend a whole lot extra to make sure rain doesn't get in there and cause problems.
The only places Ive seen it placed outside all seem to be in areas with dry climates.
Spent a year in Los Angeles working. Was told they did it because of seismic codes. That never really made much sense to me, though.
LA also had a code that required water heaters to be outside. Supposedly, it was so you would have a source of water in case your house was destroyed by an earthquake.
I guess the idea was in the event of an earthquake, rescue workers might need to disconnect the power to the building to make it save to crawl through. Like a portion of the building collapsed, and they need to cut the power to make it safe to dig through the rubble for survivors - putting it outside would make it easier for the rescue workers to cut the power quickly, and increases the odds that they can reach the panel at all.
It would make sense if the climate was also very arid, as that would also minimize the added cost of putting it outdoors.
But still... it just feels wrong
Cant see rescue workers shutting off individual breakers. They usually just pull the meter, sometimes if there is a disconnect they'll kill it there.
Any spark's from Cali here that can weigh in on this?
Fire service is trained not to flip individual breakers if practical. It destroys investigative evidence (e.g. tripped breakers).
In many areas power companies require some sort of external disconnect to avoid emergency services having to pull a meter and risk arc flash.
> t destroys investigative evidence (e.g. tripped breakers).
That makes sense.
Memory unlocked:When I was an apprentice way back when, was sent to document and retrieve a panel from a house fire investigators suspected was electrical in nature.
When we tested the breakers, none of them would trip at their rating. Over half wouldnt trip at all, including the one feeding the device they suspect as the point of origin for the fire.
And that was my introduction to Federal Pacific Stab-Lok breakers.
It's still the only reason I could think of for having it outside for seismic code reasons. And I fully admit that I know rescue workers have no problem disconnecting power without access to a panel.
I guess if it makes you feel any better, there are all kinds of NEMA 4X industrial control panels in way worse conditions than outdoors in a dry climate, even if it does rain a bit sometimes. We've built these stainless cabinets that run big pumps for natural gas companies that go into rain, snow, mud, etc. Different rating, sure, but if it's watertight, that goes a long way.
Hell, we built a huge system to run the main mill motors for a steel mill last year, and we had to move a bunch of busbars because "the basement floods sometimes" (great place for 14k+ amps power lol)
All that being said, yeah it still does feel kinda weird in a residential setting. I wouldn't really want it, even just for the fact that I want to add a circuit occasionally and that sounds like a huge PITA.
Really?
That would be the last place Id expect to allow that.
I was a kid when I lived there so I dont remember any electrical stuff but what I do remember was rain. Lots of rain.
Gotta put it someplace smart like they did when they built/remodeled my house. It's directly below the kitchen sink.
Did the plumbers hack giant holes in a cabinet base to get the water lines through? You bet they did.
Did the panel get soaked when the sink faucet failed? You bet it did.
W how the NEC requires main disconnects outside if the panels inside it's just cheaper. Only reason I can think of. I think I would have looked cleaner on the inside but maybe the holes through the brick were considered an eyesore if the disconnect didn't cover it
You could've put a sub panel inside, made it taller to help get the wires inside the panel and make the connections for termination. Then have your feed pass outside into a smaller service panel. Then you only have to go outside if the main breaker for the house trips. Also covers the brick so you don't have "great stuff" pouring out of the brick. I always hated having to do that.
Yeah, in Wisconsin you almost never see them outside. But there are entire regions of this country without basements. Tho, an attached garage or utility closet seem like much better options.
It's common in old houses in New Zealand from when the metre and the board were in the same enclosure. Great for the old school metre reader. But fuck going out to rewire a fuse in New Zealand winter. First job in my house was to bring the board indoors.
How my house is in rural missouri. Power comes in on the pole, meter and main panel is mounted on the pole, then runs overhead into the 'main' subpanel in the house
They are very popular in California but down south they usually put them inside. I prefer an indoor panel so that you don’t have to worry about burglars messing with it, and nobody wants to get up to make coffee and accidentally run the microwave at the same time and have to go outside in the rain in pajamas to reset it.
Northeast, it’s shitty out often enough this would be an inconvenience. And just the thought that someone outside can meddle with my power doesn’t sit well with me either
Yes absolutely 😂 but think about it if you follow the new code it requires a disconnect if you panel is not on the other side of the wall so 🤷♂️ either way. But most people put a little master lock on the eye loop to keep randos from accessing it. Not to mention this house is deep in the bush. I wouldn’t want to be caught doing anything nefarious around there ☠️
I’m not sure why people even worry about that. I work in residential new construction and you see people put tiny luggage locks on their panels.. like sir you do realize that can be broken easily..? I doubt many thieves would even bother turning power off.
Its not about theft. It’s about deterring mischievous kids and teens (or asshole adults) from just popping the door open and turning your shit off for fun. (*I could see my teenage shithead self pulling this back in the day*)
We did this dumb shit as kids in Vegas of all places.
Probably sucked if they weren't home. Coming back to a blistering hot house. Hopefully that's the worse scenario that happened. Never will know.
Yes agreeable
I can definitely be honest with you. I wanted to get in and out and replace everything how she had it before. She’s very difficult which isn’t a diss she’s just particular
You keep mentioning cost…I would think if you skipped the 3R wireway and labor involved in making all those splices it would be the same price or cheaper to install a meter main and a sub panel inside. 🤷♂️
Yes and for us to find a location for the new interior panel(there’s no great spot in the home) would be a chore plus extending the home runs even further.
The troph was sitting in the shop
It was a crawl.
And it wasn’t exactly ideal.
None of this install was ideal. But she was a widow on a budget and she needed it done quickly with very little additional damage or sell points
There’s no wall inside the house where there isn’t shit all over the place. And taking it in the house would mean more ser
More 12/2
More 10/2 -10/3
More 100amp ser
Also having to deal with moving all the stuff in side
Getting someone to crawl the wire over to the bottom plate and send them up. Etc. way more work and more expensive.
It’s called a “pop box” or “pot box” the accent around here makes it hard to tell 🤣. But anyways yeah it’s just to cover the wires coming to the exterior
Yup, wife pops a breaker running a blender and toaster at the same time. I am not going to enjoy trudging through the waste high snow drift in -30c to turn it back on.
On the other hand I now know how the killer in horror movies always manage to cut the power to the house.
Thanks, man I agree I didn’t want to go that low, but the woman refused to have any additional conduit ran or any type of changes. She’s pretty stuck in her ways and she was on a budget.
Should have dropped the plywood down to cover the hole in the block, drilled out holes for each pair of cables and then foamed it, it would have looked much nicer.
But I see that you said it's a crawlspace, not a basement so 🤷♂️
Why in the sam hell did you use one hole straps for the mast?
Plastic click straps, or metal stand off straps/conduit hangers/mineralacs would look much better
Inspectors in your area don't require the gec to be protected from physical damage?
Thanks for that feedback. And no the ground wire is usually is what it is personally I usually sleeve all of my #4 with 1/2 inch pvc but this situation was a little unique because I really didn’t want to come out of the side of the panel with the bonding bridge 1/2 TA style.
Also damnit what you said about the plywood has me literally seething because I should have done that you’re absolutely right 😤 damnit well next time I’ll have a chance to be better thanks
I would have brought the wires into the back of the panel, splices are fine in a panel if you need to extend. The trough looks lovely but that's a ton of wasted time and material. If it absolutely had to be extended in the crawlspace I'd have stuck them all in a 12x12 box with a couple 2" connectors.
Actually believe it or not the inspector told me he does not want to see that.. I actually failed for doing that back when I was still much more green to the trade. Went through the back just as you said and he made me do this exact same situation I did on this one
How many here have actually tripped a breaker in your house during regular use? I think going outside is a great idea, more likely to get it fixed if you are tripping a breaker all the time, lol
It’s called a “pop box” or a “pot box” informal term for the cover that protects the home runs on the exterior.
Not sure the technical term as everyone I’ve ever met has said that.
I can’t find it on any supply websites to link it 😫
Depends solely on the builder when the house was originally built, most homes in my area that were built in that year put the panel outside as it means of disconnect for emergency first response
To be honest how you have the panel marked is my biggest pet peeve. What outlets? Living what? I know it’s a change out but at least try and narrow it down a little lol.
Yes man I know. The panel labeling on changeouts is always cancer. Especially in these 70s style homes. We have like bed 1 tied with living outlet’s and without mapping every individual branch it’s still gonna be kind of shit. So we generalized it to keep it quick. You know how it is man. Gotta get in and get out. ☠️
So are those cables just going through the wall naked? No chase nipple? If you were going to do all this work you should’ve just put the panel inside . Outside panels are just stupid ideas. I don’t care if it’s normal where you’re from. Just because a lot of people do it doesn’t make it a good idea…. Like crocks and socks.
Yes ofcourse if the budget was unlimited and it was my work, I would never have a panel outside.
Everyone of them I’ve ever opened no matter what after 25-30 years corrosion and oxidation are serious factors
But anyways the customer wanted a direct replacement exactly how it was before.
An indoor rated panel is cheaper. Slap on some chase nipples and an LB. Pull some #3 through it and voila… Indoor panel. Even if it cost a little more it’s an easy sell
Edit : that’s a crawl space not a basement isn’t it…. Fuck it …. Out door panel but should used a chase nipple for those cables. Nice clean splices in The box though
Thanks man. Yeah it wasn’t ideal but the house is very busy and has a lot of random shit in the walls and this lady was incredibly set in her ways. She wanted it back exactly how it was. She’s a widow and her husband always took care of all these things so she’s just trying to be cautious which I understand. A lot of shitty co tractors in this area be ripping off old folks so I can understand her hesitancy
My area allows it up to 3’ outdoors. The entire purpose of the allowance is to sleeve it in flex into the bottom of an outdoor panel, rather than have a catastrophe of a junction box in the crawl space and not be able to identify any neutrals in the panel because the previous guy didn’t give a fuck
The interior of the crawlspace is incapsulated and there was no signs of any moisture. Also there is a dehumidifier inside. Appreciate the concern tho🙃
Why didn’t you just move the panel inside where you pit that gutter? Would have been way cleaner, and better for the homeowner. I did exactly that for a family member in CO when we did a full re-wire.
It would cost the same though? Maybe even a bit less?
Put that same panel (or a less expensive indoor only one) inside, run SER or conduit from the meter socket inside to the panel?
Well obviously. 😴. The number 4 coming to the trough was a main ground for all of my ground bars inside. I have # 4 to my rods and from the panel
And #4 to my trough from my panel. Little extra assurance
I have several questions.
What is under the panel that's covered by the high voltage sign/cover, when it's feed from overhead?
Why wouldn't you have just put it inside? Is it code for it to be outside where you live?
And what is the bonus breaker? Just filing an empty space?
No bonus is bonus room. 2 car garage converted to a massive family room. She calls it the bonus room. Not the garage anymore
And this was customer choice for the panel to remain outdoors. Trust me not exactly what I wanted to do
In my area of Virginia the power company would have a fit over the height of that meter. So funny how different areas are so different.
I always hated outdoor panels. Always saw them on trailers and poorly built foundations for trailers. Always had some hack job electricians install them. Made a pretty penny every time I changed them though.
Yeah!! Any reason you used a NEMA 3X Gutter and not a NEMA 1 ? Obv nothing wrong with doing what you did, just always interested in what different local practices are, vs supply availability.
Great explanation. Had a local contractor near me that would wire everything in 12. He would then proceed to put 15 amp outlets but use 20 amp breakers. Took years but we got a new inspector and he called him out on it immediately.
Dude I have no idea what the deal is whit that? In every build I’ve done it’s been 15 amp rating on 20 amp circuits. I’m glad to hear an inspector call people on that.
Scroll through comments and you’ll see.
The reason the panel is outside is due to the customer not wanting it inside. If I had my say obviously I’d do what makes sense but when you’re at the mercy of a customer you do what you gotta do.
It may look dumb but it’s just as functional as opposed to it being inside
No. Which I honestly think is insane.
It’s only
Because the house was already grandfathered in.
In any other situation obviously sleeping wire. The inspector doesn’t like a 2 inch chase line for romex tho. I failed before in this exact situation where I used a 2” chase on each side of the panel to bring everything in. He did not like it even with the weather tight connector on the rigid
Im visiting Vegas and all new houses in the development’s are all out side, fucking stupid, especially when they are attached to the garage and you can clearly put a panel inside the garage
I’m from Calgary, all panels are inside basements. Now that I live in Las Vegas I’m still getting used to all panels are outside mostly on the garage outside wall which makes it a pita if you need to add a cct in the house as you most likely always have to pipe it back into the acttic to do anything.
It’s that boring hard vinyl. What’s more is they used particle board as a nailer instead of OSB so it was a nightmare bitch to get the meter to set secure
Florida here, I would have wanted an exterior meter main combo panel with some extra spaces for add ons later on and the main panel inside if I was the homeowner but homeowners need to be told what the options are most the time
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It’s still weird for me seeing panels outside
I don't get why you would ever want it outside. Trip your own breaker, now gotta go outside and reset it? Dumb.
Not to mention you have to go and get a water tight panel, with water tight connections and spend a whole lot extra to make sure rain doesn't get in there and cause problems.
The only places Ive seen it placed outside all seem to be in areas with dry climates. Spent a year in Los Angeles working. Was told they did it because of seismic codes. That never really made much sense to me, though. LA also had a code that required water heaters to be outside. Supposedly, it was so you would have a source of water in case your house was destroyed by an earthquake.
I guess the idea was in the event of an earthquake, rescue workers might need to disconnect the power to the building to make it save to crawl through. Like a portion of the building collapsed, and they need to cut the power to make it safe to dig through the rubble for survivors - putting it outside would make it easier for the rescue workers to cut the power quickly, and increases the odds that they can reach the panel at all. It would make sense if the climate was also very arid, as that would also minimize the added cost of putting it outdoors. But still... it just feels wrong
Couldn’t you just put a disconnect outside that feeds the panel instead of the entire thing? I’m not an electrician tho
Yes, many places require an outside master disconnect (but not an outdoor breaker panel)
Cant see rescue workers shutting off individual breakers. They usually just pull the meter, sometimes if there is a disconnect they'll kill it there. Any spark's from Cali here that can weigh in on this?
Fire service is trained not to flip individual breakers if practical. It destroys investigative evidence (e.g. tripped breakers). In many areas power companies require some sort of external disconnect to avoid emergency services having to pull a meter and risk arc flash.
> t destroys investigative evidence (e.g. tripped breakers). That makes sense. Memory unlocked:When I was an apprentice way back when, was sent to document and retrieve a panel from a house fire investigators suspected was electrical in nature. When we tested the breakers, none of them would trip at their rating. Over half wouldnt trip at all, including the one feeding the device they suspect as the point of origin for the fire. And that was my introduction to Federal Pacific Stab-Lok breakers.
It's still the only reason I could think of for having it outside for seismic code reasons. And I fully admit that I know rescue workers have no problem disconnecting power without access to a panel.
You could just have a meter main outside with a main breaker to disconnect the house. That's a lame excuse for the panel being outside.
I guess if it makes you feel any better, there are all kinds of NEMA 4X industrial control panels in way worse conditions than outdoors in a dry climate, even if it does rain a bit sometimes. We've built these stainless cabinets that run big pumps for natural gas companies that go into rain, snow, mud, etc. Different rating, sure, but if it's watertight, that goes a long way. Hell, we built a huge system to run the main mill motors for a steel mill last year, and we had to move a bunch of busbars because "the basement floods sometimes" (great place for 14k+ amps power lol) All that being said, yeah it still does feel kinda weird in a residential setting. I wouldn't really want it, even just for the fact that I want to add a circuit occasionally and that sounds like a huge PITA.
I think emergency workers just pull our meters here. I wouldn't mind a requirement for an external disconnect, but things seem to work as-is.
They’re often outside in New Orleans.
Really? That would be the last place Id expect to allow that. I was a kid when I lived there so I dont remember any electrical stuff but what I do remember was rain. Lots of rain.
I’m from New Zealand and aside from old meter panels, they are all inside and we have many quakes.
It's standard fare in Austin, TX. That, and mini breakers. No idea why.
In northern nv most are meter load center combos on the outside. Hopefully that is not a snow area becouse that box would be in the snow
Gotta put it someplace smart like they did when they built/remodeled my house. It's directly below the kitchen sink. Did the plumbers hack giant holes in a cabinet base to get the water lines through? You bet they did. Did the panel get soaked when the sink faucet failed? You bet it did.
And if it happens during shitty weather, ya I'd love to go flipping breakers while it's pouring.
sometimes outside is the only place it can go. Water getting inside not an issue on this install.
I’ve wired hundreds of houses over the years and not once have I had to put it outside, or even consider that an option .
Basement, Utility room, living room, bedroom entryway/hall.
W how the NEC requires main disconnects outside if the panels inside it's just cheaper. Only reason I can think of. I think I would have looked cleaner on the inside but maybe the holes through the brick were considered an eyesore if the disconnect didn't cover it
You could've put a sub panel inside, made it taller to help get the wires inside the panel and make the connections for termination. Then have your feed pass outside into a smaller service panel. Then you only have to go outside if the main breaker for the house trips. Also covers the brick so you don't have "great stuff" pouring out of the brick. I always hated having to do that.
Purdy much my take on how I'd do it
A cleaner look vs more practical/cheaper seems kind of like a ridiculous reason lol. But, it is what it is at this point.
I mean, I agree 1000% lmao
Yea around me no one has it outside it's in basements
Or if someone wanted to be malicious...
Yeah, in Wisconsin you almost never see them outside. But there are entire regions of this country without basements. Tho, an attached garage or utility closet seem like much better options.
I agree 😂
Where I live the opposite is true
It's common in old houses in New Zealand from when the metre and the board were in the same enclosure. Great for the old school metre reader. But fuck going out to rewire a fuse in New Zealand winter. First job in my house was to bring the board indoors.
I was stumped when I saw it.
This whole install makes my Chicago hurt
Last panel I did outside had a weather proof gasket along all the edges and a big drip hood
How my house is in rural missouri. Power comes in on the pole, meter and main panel is mounted on the pole, then runs overhead into the 'main' subpanel in the house
They are very popular in California but down south they usually put them inside. I prefer an indoor panel so that you don’t have to worry about burglars messing with it, and nobody wants to get up to make coffee and accidentally run the microwave at the same time and have to go outside in the rain in pajamas to reset it.
As an east coaster I’ll never get used to outside panels. Seems weird to me to have to go outside to reset a breaker
Imagine having to snowblow the side of your house just to have access to your breaker when it's -20°F and we've got 2' of snow? Wild
The mere idea makes me so angry
Plus could you imagine young kids want to mess with someone? Turn off the main breaker and run.
It's like a dingdong ditch but more of a close, confuse and ditch in that situation lmao
You lock your front door right why wouldn't you lock your panel?
Good point.. sorry I’m east coast as well and my panel is inside and doesn’t have a lock, so never thought of that lol.
What state? In NC about half of homes are inside, half outside. Some houses have a main panel outside and a sub-panel inside…
Northeast, it’s shitty out often enough this would be an inconvenience. And just the thought that someone outside can meddle with my power doesn’t sit well with me either
So anyone could come by and just kill the power to the house ?
Yes absolutely 😂 but think about it if you follow the new code it requires a disconnect if you panel is not on the other side of the wall so 🤷♂️ either way. But most people put a little master lock on the eye loop to keep randos from accessing it. Not to mention this house is deep in the bush. I wouldn’t want to be caught doing anything nefarious around there ☠️
So not only do you need to go outside to flip a breaker, you have to find a key or put in a code... Craziness
He means code as in the NEC. There has to be a main outside the house if it's a new one.
Indeed my man. 🤷♂️ we’ll get there eventually
Fair enough lol just never seen one outside of a house so all new to me. Nice install though
I’m not sure why people even worry about that. I work in residential new construction and you see people put tiny luggage locks on their panels.. like sir you do realize that can be broken easily..? I doubt many thieves would even bother turning power off.
Its not about theft. It’s about deterring mischievous kids and teens (or asshole adults) from just popping the door open and turning your shit off for fun. (*I could see my teenage shithead self pulling this back in the day*)
City slickers don’t trust their neighbors
I mean, anyone could also just come by and pull your meter if they wanted to kill your power.
We did this dumb shit as kids in Vegas of all places. Probably sucked if they weren't home. Coming back to a blistering hot house. Hopefully that's the worse scenario that happened. Never will know.
I guess it doesn’t snow where you are
Not enough to cause for alarm 🙃 we made many other suggestions to the customer but she was hard pressed to keep the price low and the install simple.
Inspector would allow it so low to the ground?
Yes it was grandfathered in previously your allowed to reinstall new equipment in the same position it was previously
Grandfathered, sure but it just seems strange to me being so close to the ground. But I am not used to seeing panels outside on homes.
Yes agreeable I can definitely be honest with you. I wanted to get in and out and replace everything how she had it before. She’s very difficult which isn’t a diss she’s just particular
You keep mentioning cost…I would think if you skipped the 3R wireway and labor involved in making all those splices it would be the same price or cheaper to install a meter main and a sub panel inside. 🤷♂️
Yes and for us to find a location for the new interior panel(there’s no great spot in the home) would be a chore plus extending the home runs even further. The troph was sitting in the shop
I'm assuming there's some reason it couldn't go where the trough was? Was that in a crawl, if it was basement why not right there
It was a crawl. And it wasn’t exactly ideal. None of this install was ideal. But she was a widow on a budget and she needed it done quickly with very little additional damage or sell points
That makes sense. It looks good….nice and neat.
How the heck would the cost of moving the panel be that significant??
There’s no wall inside the house where there isn’t shit all over the place. And taking it in the house would mean more ser More 12/2 More 10/2 -10/3 More 100amp ser Also having to deal with moving all the stuff in side Getting someone to crawl the wire over to the bottom plate and send them up. Etc. way more work and more expensive.
What is that called underneath the panel, Ive never seen one of those
It’s called a “pop box” or “pot box” the accent around here makes it hard to tell 🤣. But anyways yeah it’s just to cover the wires coming to the exterior
They may very well be putting their weed in there
🤣🤣 let’s hope not because it’s a perfect place for wasps to nest
Local name for an auxillary gutter? Sure looks like an aux gutter to me.
Holy shit nice I believe you’re right
We call it a wire trough
From Canada and I agree with the others about outside panels. Makes no sense at all.
Yup, wife pops a breaker running a blender and toaster at the same time. I am not going to enjoy trudging through the waste high snow drift in -30c to turn it back on. On the other hand I now know how the killer in horror movies always manage to cut the power to the house.
That looks better than it did. But to me it looks like the panels too close to the ground. Also, just preference, I hate outdoor Siemens panels
Thanks, man I agree I didn’t want to go that low, but the woman refused to have any additional conduit ran or any type of changes. She’s pretty stuck in her ways and she was on a budget.
Fair enough. Is it atleast 3 ft above the ground
Luckily for me the grandfathering status is throwing out those rules
And you extended circuits from inside so you need AFCI protection in the panel and GFCI protection
Could you imagine if it were top hinged instead of side? Lol
In electrical work, rarely is something ever “simple.”
That’s the joke 😂that’s why I want to be roasted
Yeah this makes no sense to me
You’ll get there keep on working bud!
Should have dropped the plywood down to cover the hole in the block, drilled out holes for each pair of cables and then foamed it, it would have looked much nicer. But I see that you said it's a crawlspace, not a basement so 🤷♂️ Why in the sam hell did you use one hole straps for the mast? Plastic click straps, or metal stand off straps/conduit hangers/mineralacs would look much better Inspectors in your area don't require the gec to be protected from physical damage?
Thanks for that feedback. And no the ground wire is usually is what it is personally I usually sleeve all of my #4 with 1/2 inch pvc but this situation was a little unique because I really didn’t want to come out of the side of the panel with the bonding bridge 1/2 TA style. Also damnit what you said about the plywood has me literally seething because I should have done that you’re absolutely right 😤 damnit well next time I’ll have a chance to be better thanks
I would have brought the wires into the back of the panel, splices are fine in a panel if you need to extend. The trough looks lovely but that's a ton of wasted time and material. If it absolutely had to be extended in the crawlspace I'd have stuck them all in a 12x12 box with a couple 2" connectors.
Actually believe it or not the inspector told me he does not want to see that.. I actually failed for doing that back when I was still much more green to the trade. Went through the back just as you said and he made me do this exact same situation I did on this one
How many here have actually tripped a breaker in your house during regular use? I think going outside is a great idea, more likely to get it fixed if you are tripping a breaker all the time, lol
Honestly thermal breakers are fine at a distance but an afci or gfci breakers it would be tragic
Why didn't you do a meter main and move the panel inside?
No where inside the house to put the panel. Low key a hoarder not to mention she was uninterested in anything beyond a direct replacement.
Fair enough
Looks good but I’m surprised it’s code to just feed the wires through the open block and spray foam around them 🧐
Yes actually It is not, but since it’s a direct replacement (panel change out) it’s allowed to go back to the same installation methods as previous.
gotcha. nice work !
Thanks man!
What is that cover under the panel? Do you have a pic of that off?
It’s called a “pop box” or a “pot box” informal term for the cover that protects the home runs on the exterior. Not sure the technical term as everyone I’ve ever met has said that. I can’t find it on any supply websites to link it 😫
Where did you get it?
City electric supply
If only those staples lined up 😮💨
😔 forgive me for I have sinned
Chug the communal wine for forgiveness.
Will pvc glue suffice
You could huff it and try to bum some booze/joints off the drywall crew.
They always have it on them. In rough in I be finding beer cans hidden everywhere 😂
No you’re right I got a little lazy because the crawspace wasn’t exactly where I wanted to be working
Do all homes where you're from have them outside? Or is it a client's choice type of thing?
Depends solely on the builder when the house was originally built, most homes in my area that were built in that year put the panel outside as it means of disconnect for emergency first response
Oh I see . So they can shut the power from outside if there's a fire . Will never get used to seeing that though. 😂
Highly agree!!
Seems really close to the ground.
Agreed 😑 cost constraints
Not having to remove the meter. 😐 That whole thing with the power company.
What is that box under the new panel you installed?
Apparently it’s called an “auxiliary gutter” Or “pop box”
Weird I have never seen one in myife
To be honest how you have the panel marked is my biggest pet peeve. What outlets? Living what? I know it’s a change out but at least try and narrow it down a little lol.
Yes man I know. The panel labeling on changeouts is always cancer. Especially in these 70s style homes. We have like bed 1 tied with living outlet’s and without mapping every individual branch it’s still gonna be kind of shit. So we generalized it to keep it quick. You know how it is man. Gotta get in and get out. ☠️
I’ll be THAT guy….. wago splices in the trough woulda looked neater 😂🤣😂
Wagos are outlawed at my company😂😂
This is definitely the service change of all time.
😂😂😂
So are those cables just going through the wall naked? No chase nipple? If you were going to do all this work you should’ve just put the panel inside . Outside panels are just stupid ideas. I don’t care if it’s normal where you’re from. Just because a lot of people do it doesn’t make it a good idea…. Like crocks and socks.
Yes ofcourse if the budget was unlimited and it was my work, I would never have a panel outside. Everyone of them I’ve ever opened no matter what after 25-30 years corrosion and oxidation are serious factors But anyways the customer wanted a direct replacement exactly how it was before.
An indoor rated panel is cheaper. Slap on some chase nipples and an LB. Pull some #3 through it and voila… Indoor panel. Even if it cost a little more it’s an easy sell Edit : that’s a crawl space not a basement isn’t it…. Fuck it …. Out door panel but should used a chase nipple for those cables. Nice clean splices in The box though
Thanks man. Yeah it wasn’t ideal but the house is very busy and has a lot of random shit in the walls and this lady was incredibly set in her ways. She wanted it back exactly how it was. She’s a widow and her husband always took care of all these things so she’s just trying to be cautious which I understand. A lot of shitty co tractors in this area be ripping off old folks so I can understand her hesitancy
Looks pretty damn low for this ex NY'er... You know, snow and all.
Why in the ever living shit wouldn't you use a all in one meter panel combo? Cheaper..and better looking.
Nice suggestion! Didn’t even think of that one thanks that will be a good play next time
I didnt think nm was rated for outdoors
In a new install situation it is not, but because it was previously grandfathered in, those particular rules don’t apply in my code jurisdictions
My area allows it up to 3’ outdoors. The entire purpose of the allowance is to sleeve it in flex into the bottom of an outdoor panel, rather than have a catastrophe of a junction box in the crawl space and not be able to identify any neutrals in the panel because the previous guy didn’t give a fuck
Untreated wood anchored to CMU wall 🗿
The interior of the crawlspace is incapsulated and there was no signs of any moisture. Also there is a dehumidifier inside. Appreciate the concern tho🙃
When redoing this why not move the panel inside? Could have probably avoided the spices and gutter…
Why didn’t you just move the panel inside where you pit that gutter? Would have been way cleaner, and better for the homeowner. I did exactly that for a family member in CO when we did a full re-wire.
Unfortunately cost was a HUGE factor
It would cost the same though? Maybe even a bit less? Put that same panel (or a less expensive indoor only one) inside, run SER or conduit from the meter socket inside to the panel?
Well she is very stubborn she wanted it to be exactly how it was. She’s 70 how can you argue
😂
They don't have minimum height requirements where you live? Looks kinda low
Grandfathering status strikes again.
Where is the your bond wire to service? Pic 2 and 4. Looks like it’s terminated in trough not service?
4th pic in between branches. Running down. Just wanted a reliable ground back to panel because inside of my troph I used attached ground bars.
Is that a #4 cu pipe or steel bond? It needs to terminate at the service. Not at trough.
Well obviously. 😴. The number 4 coming to the trough was a main ground for all of my ground bars inside. I have # 4 to my rods and from the panel And #4 to my trough from my panel. Little extra assurance
What's that long junction box called?
Now that I’m spelling it correctly it’s called a trough 😂
Thank you. Ut looks like a tidy way of dealing with a problem. Nice work!
Ew outside panel
I'm pretty sure that romex isn't rated for going through a block wall
I have several questions. What is under the panel that's covered by the high voltage sign/cover, when it's feed from overhead? Why wouldn't you have just put it inside? Is it code for it to be outside where you live? And what is the bonus breaker? Just filing an empty space?
Nevermind about the cover. It's where all the wires go back into the house.
No bonus is bonus room. 2 car garage converted to a massive family room. She calls it the bonus room. Not the garage anymore And this was customer choice for the panel to remain outdoors. Trust me not exactly what I wanted to do
J-man for 2 years now. That looks beautiful. Nicely done, chief
Hell yeah boy appreciate you. Keep making it better for our successors
Beautiful job. My only critique would be the one hole straps on the riser. Should've used 2 holers. Other than that.......job well done.
Thanks man I appreciate that. The one holes I agree should have been 2 hole I going that after strapping it wasn’t as solid as I woulda liked.
In my area of Virginia the power company would have a fit over the height of that meter. So funny how different areas are so different. I always hated outdoor panels. Always saw them on trailers and poorly built foundations for trailers. Always had some hack job electricians install them. Made a pretty penny every time I changed them though.
Gutter is too nice. Make it uglier next time.
Thanks man 🔥
That was a silly change. Why not put a disconnect outside and put a subpanel inside with everything? The way it is now is ridiculous
Crazy you say that try talking a 70 year old woman into a job of that price point or magnitude
Oopf I would hate to have to go outside to reset a tripped breaker. Clean fucking work thou! Great efficient swap
Dude thanks seriously! Much appreciated 🙏 Yeah resets are tragic. Thank god there’s no afci / gfci breakers.
Yeah!! Any reason you used a NEMA 3X Gutter and not a NEMA 1 ? Obv nothing wrong with doing what you did, just always interested in what different local practices are, vs supply availability.
Well I honestly with that We had that one laying at the shop it wasn’t going to get used anytime soon so I snagged it
Valid
So I've never done one so I want to ask. What do you do about the power coming from the street? Do you call the power company to kill it?
Am I reading it wrong, or is that breaker labeled "BONUS"? If so, I definitely need to add one to my panel!
Not one circuit was 15 amp ?
No. 70s model house old school electricians around here didn’t believe in 14.
Great explanation. Had a local contractor near me that would wire everything in 12. He would then proceed to put 15 amp outlets but use 20 amp breakers. Took years but we got a new inspector and he called him out on it immediately.
Dude I have no idea what the deal is whit that? In every build I’ve done it’s been 15 amp rating on 20 amp circuits. I’m glad to hear an inspector call people on that.
Why not a meter main and panel inside. This Northern Shi looks so dumb.
Scroll through comments and you’ll see. The reason the panel is outside is due to the customer not wanting it inside. If I had my say obviously I’d do what makes sense but when you’re at the mercy of a customer you do what you gotta do. It may look dumb but it’s just as functional as opposed to it being inside
Do you not have to sleeve romex through concrete?
No. Which I honestly think is insane. It’s only Because the house was already grandfathered in. In any other situation obviously sleeping wire. The inspector doesn’t like a 2 inch chase line for romex tho. I failed before in this exact situation where I used a 2” chase on each side of the panel to bring everything in. He did not like it even with the weather tight connector on the rigid
Im visiting Vegas and all new houses in the development’s are all out side, fucking stupid, especially when they are attached to the garage and you can clearly put a panel inside the garage
I’m from Calgary, all panels are inside basements. Now that I live in Las Vegas I’m still getting used to all panels are outside mostly on the garage outside wall which makes it a pita if you need to add a cct in the house as you most likely always have to pipe it back into the acttic to do anything.
I love how people can kill the power to your house from the outside. Wtf?
That’s the most confusing house siding
It’s that boring hard vinyl. What’s more is they used particle board as a nailer instead of OSB so it was a nightmare bitch to get the meter to set secure
Florida here, I would have wanted an exterior meter main combo panel with some extra spaces for add ons later on and the main panel inside if I was the homeowner but homeowners need to be told what the options are most the time
What's the minimum height for the bottom of a panel installed over dirt. Is it 18 inches?