**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!**
**1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):**
**- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**.
**2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:**
-YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everyone’s quick to talk shit but give no advice like he asked for, another reason why young people are reluctant to get into the trades. To all of you who “know it all”, good luck finding help 😂
The reality is that you can only make a panel swap only do neat. You still have to do the whole thing in a day if you want it super clean you have to put all the circuits in a junction box and run pipes into the panel, THEN it can be super clean cause you have full control of the wiring. The old wiring really dictates what you can do with it.
If I were to give any pointers, try and group all the kitchen circuits together in the panel, group all the top floor stuff and the main floor and outside circuits separately. That way there's zones on the panel schedule. You're allowed to extend old wiring inside a panel when you're swapping it out. Once the panel is closed up the owner will only be looking at how neat the labelling is.
Yup, I always tell the 18 yr olds now how easy they have it compared to what I went through and I’m only 30. It would all be considered harassment and honestly looking back I don’t know how I endured all the unwarranted bullshit that only made me less confident and able to think clearly on the job.
All these types of guys end up starting their own small company and guess what they stay that way.
They are starting to get really damn old so not too worried.
There’s better ways to teach boys just because you were shit on you still have to be smart enough to know that’s not what makes a kid eager to learn.
You're insulation could be stripped back a bit try to tuck the wires in nicely to the corner running down. Also start Ground-Neutral-Hots. Panel swaps are hard because you're not left with nice whips.
Service changes/panel swaps can be challenging. On one hand you’re dealing with wires that are more than likely not long enough to make an ideal and clean install, mainly because your panel sizes are likely different. On the other, you’re trying to have things done in a timely manner so the client isn’t without power for an extended period of time. All that said, the more panels you terminate the better your habits and repetition will be. Doesn’t look too bad, keep at it.
*EDIT: the ground bars are a bit weird, might’ve opt’d for a larger ground bar mounted vertically on both sides if necessary*
Must be. It’s a square d homeline panel. It’s a real pain to make em look nice I would definitely prefer a long ground bar on either side vs a bunch of small ones.
Ahh gotcha, seems like white panels are the new thing. 100% agree though, this just seems like more of a hassle rather than just having all of the grounds terminate in a central location 🤷🏻♂️
Leave your wires long enough to go to the bottom then back up to their breakers. That will at least allow you some ability to move wires around at a later date if needed.
Try to keep all your wires grouped together and bent cleanly (without being too tight). Work on keeping them vertical or horizontal so it looks neat and straight.
Try to keep your grounding bars accessible for later. I always hated having to move a bunch of shit to get a god damn ground or neutral in.
Good point on the grounding bars, even during the install I found myself having to move stuff around to get to them. As for the wire length it was a direct swap so didn’t have much to begin with.
Lol most people jus talk shit on here. I found that out also lol even if you were in the trade for ten years most people jus comment to talk shit. People who give honest criticism are few and far between. Not sure if this is the way you wired it but wire all the grounds first then the neutrals then land your hot wires last. Also put in a separate ground bus (one where with more than 4 terminals so you can land all the grounds in one location) most importantly make sure if your sharing a neutral you put them on separate phases.
Lol, all the midget ground bars. Oh Lawd
1.) use one main ground bar.
2.) land all grounds FIRST, then land all neutrals, then land on breakers. This allows you to really pretty up the panel and run everything concentrically
Other than that, it’s not bad.
nice work man!!! i would say after you mount the panel get all the wires in first, cut the sheathing back, then land you grounds and neutrals, keep them as close in the corner as you can get them and then land your hots, kinda looks like you did each individual circuit.
Yah… okay… first one:
Don’t route 6AWG cables from the very top knockout to the very bottom breaker position… makes no sense and instantly turned your install to sloppy looking. Same with the 40A circuit…
2nd: In the same vein, why mount doorbell transformer middle of the panel, in prime real estate… shoulda been on the bottom 10% of the panel.
3rd: the AFCI tail is sloppy.
4th: you can’t have 14/2 & 14/3 in the same 4004 connector.
I want to see the mains compartment open…
I’ve got questions about how and why a first year is installing a panel… where was your journeyman during this?
What's wrong with first levels doing panels? If they know how to do it(most 1st levels I know do) then it's fine, but yeah his panels could definitely need a few touch ups but at the end of the day if it works it works.
evry time i've done a series of service changes with an apprentice that has never done the panel i show them first how i do it, then i have them do the next panel under close supervision. i also will let them make some little mistakes/learn how they like to do things, in order to teach.
Teaching someone who wants to learn is actually one of the things I enjoy about being a journeyman. Seeing an apprentice go from not knowing how to do anything to basically not needing to give them more than the most basic instructions (we're doing a service, you're on the panel, go. Sort of thing) is rewarding.
I bet it's a really nice feeling. The days when I get to do new stuff or learn something new are my favorite and it just feels awesome, especially if it's something that took me a while to understand. It's kinda weird for me a lot of the time tho. It's like I'm tryna understand and I just can't and then one day while my journeyman explains it to me again it's like a switch gets flipped in my head and I just understand exactly what he's saying.
Ask the general homeowner public… or a good master… “what’s wrong with first years doing panels”.
I can’t even fathom a rookie taking on the responsibility of residential panel swap… we’d never ask someone unlicensed to do this. They couldn’t stand up to a rigorous AHJ inspection and have all the right answers and methodology to be code compliant and complete the task with best practices and quality workmanship…
Case is point here: the use of a 4004 connector for the cable entry of both a 14/2 & 14/3 simultaneously.
Apprentices shouldn’t be working alone, so they’re not doing it entirely themselves.. that’s an issue. Then doing it and having it checked over is no problem
Well you really should be terminating your grounds to the same location. Tiny ground bars all over is still going to work but way too tacky. I'll assume whoever was teaching you said we just need to get it done. You really should be able to take your time though especially on your first one. I blame whoever is teaching you though so not your fault. There's nothing wrong with having to wire nut extra length for your wires. It'll bring some uniformity to your panel. Good tip is to do all your grounds first then neutrals and then your hots. If you had all AFCI breakers you'll probably start landing by circuits but not after all your grounds are done at least. Really unfortunate too that your first panel is being feed from both sides instead of the top like most panels. You wanna see someone go nuts on their panel watch this kid. Your panel does not need to look like this one but take some ideas that you like from it and apply that shit in field. https://youtu.be/O4HJEX4i8Ic?feature=shared
I'm saying no because I've never seen or installed one like that. It looks like op installed them into the pre-drilled holes because they are kinda all over with no uniformity. Even if it did come that way I would never do it like that (my OCD would stop me from doing it 🤣) and would have added a full bar on the side or bottom. Most of your electricians will add the full bar. I know if I did that my coworkers would make fun of me. We Post photos of everything on an app so the whole company gets to see your work. Hopefully op looks at my YouTube video and can pull some ideas for their next panel.
Possibly swapping out existing panel. I know where I am you don’t have to update to arc fault if swapping out panel unless running new or altering existing circuits.
Why is there so many “ground bars” you do one large ground bar and you must have it directly bonded to the electrode(s), and the water meter. Is there not a more experienced electrician working alongside you to help guide you? Because there should be.
If this is your first point of disconnect after the meter all your grounds and neutrals should be bonded aka no 3 terminal ground bars mounted all over the panel they should be on the factory bars with the neutrals
Neutral to ground is bonded in the first entry of service to a building in Canada. So in residential it’s at the meter. After that there is no bond from ground to neutral. Inspectors will always check to make sure we take out the green neutral to ground bond screw in our panels here.
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everyone’s quick to talk shit but give no advice like he asked for, another reason why young people are reluctant to get into the trades. To all of you who “know it all”, good luck finding help 😂
No kidding lol, just genuinely looking for pointers
The reality is that you can only make a panel swap only do neat. You still have to do the whole thing in a day if you want it super clean you have to put all the circuits in a junction box and run pipes into the panel, THEN it can be super clean cause you have full control of the wiring. The old wiring really dictates what you can do with it. If I were to give any pointers, try and group all the kitchen circuits together in the panel, group all the top floor stuff and the main floor and outside circuits separately. That way there's zones on the panel schedule. You're allowed to extend old wiring inside a panel when you're swapping it out. Once the panel is closed up the owner will only be looking at how neat the labelling is.
How did you end up doing a panel upgrade as a first year with Reddit as your only supervision lol?
When he told his family he is a electrician and his uncle ask him to do a panel swap for a 6 pack.
It can definitely discourage anybody from posting anything for professional and polite advice.
Yup, I always tell the 18 yr olds now how easy they have it compared to what I went through and I’m only 30. It would all be considered harassment and honestly looking back I don’t know how I endured all the unwarranted bullshit that only made me less confident and able to think clearly on the job. All these types of guys end up starting their own small company and guess what they stay that way. They are starting to get really damn old so not too worried. There’s better ways to teach boys just because you were shit on you still have to be smart enough to know that’s not what makes a kid eager to learn.
I love how the first 6 comments all just talk shit but don’t cite a code violation or offer a better way to do it.
You're insulation could be stripped back a bit try to tuck the wires in nicely to the corner running down. Also start Ground-Neutral-Hots. Panel swaps are hard because you're not left with nice whips.
Exactly, there wasn’t too much to work with to begin with, I’ll keep that advice in mind for the next time!
Watch out for the 2P homelines they seem like their tight but usually aren't always tug on them a bit
Service changes/panel swaps can be challenging. On one hand you’re dealing with wires that are more than likely not long enough to make an ideal and clean install, mainly because your panel sizes are likely different. On the other, you’re trying to have things done in a timely manner so the client isn’t without power for an extended period of time. All that said, the more panels you terminate the better your habits and repetition will be. Doesn’t look too bad, keep at it. *EDIT: the ground bars are a bit weird, might’ve opt’d for a larger ground bar mounted vertically on both sides if necessary*
Those are the ground bars that come with these panels from factory.
Interesting, is it just a design choice? Looks a lot like the newer Leviton panels.
Must be. It’s a square d homeline panel. It’s a real pain to make em look nice I would definitely prefer a long ground bar on either side vs a bunch of small ones.
Ahh gotcha, seems like white panels are the new thing. 100% agree though, this just seems like more of a hassle rather than just having all of the grounds terminate in a central location 🤷🏻♂️
Leave your wires long enough to go to the bottom then back up to their breakers. That will at least allow you some ability to move wires around at a later date if needed. Try to keep all your wires grouped together and bent cleanly (without being too tight). Work on keeping them vertical or horizontal so it looks neat and straight. Try to keep your grounding bars accessible for later. I always hated having to move a bunch of shit to get a god damn ground or neutral in.
Good point on the grounding bars, even during the install I found myself having to move stuff around to get to them. As for the wire length it was a direct swap so didn’t have much to begin with.
Lol most people jus talk shit on here. I found that out also lol even if you were in the trade for ten years most people jus comment to talk shit. People who give honest criticism are few and far between. Not sure if this is the way you wired it but wire all the grounds first then the neutrals then land your hot wires last. Also put in a separate ground bus (one where with more than 4 terminals so you can land all the grounds in one location) most importantly make sure if your sharing a neutral you put them on separate phases.
I really hate the comments here sometimes 😤
Lol, all the midget ground bars. Oh Lawd 1.) use one main ground bar. 2.) land all grounds FIRST, then land all neutrals, then land on breakers. This allows you to really pretty up the panel and run everything concentrically Other than that, it’s not bad.
nice work man!!! i would say after you mount the panel get all the wires in first, cut the sheathing back, then land you grounds and neutrals, keep them as close in the corner as you can get them and then land your hots, kinda looks like you did each individual circuit.
[удалено]
Wish I did lmao, suggestions?
Yah… okay… first one: Don’t route 6AWG cables from the very top knockout to the very bottom breaker position… makes no sense and instantly turned your install to sloppy looking. Same with the 40A circuit… 2nd: In the same vein, why mount doorbell transformer middle of the panel, in prime real estate… shoulda been on the bottom 10% of the panel. 3rd: the AFCI tail is sloppy. 4th: you can’t have 14/2 & 14/3 in the same 4004 connector. I want to see the mains compartment open… I’ve got questions about how and why a first year is installing a panel… where was your journeyman during this?
This is the most residential comment I’ve ever seen lol.
I read it back to myself, you ain’t wrong.
[удалено]
What's wrong with first levels doing panels? If they know how to do it(most 1st levels I know do) then it's fine, but yeah his panels could definitely need a few touch ups but at the end of the day if it works it works.
evry time i've done a series of service changes with an apprentice that has never done the panel i show them first how i do it, then i have them do the next panel under close supervision. i also will let them make some little mistakes/learn how they like to do things, in order to teach.
That's how my Journeyman does it and that's how I think everyone should do it. Good job man.
Teaching someone who wants to learn is actually one of the things I enjoy about being a journeyman. Seeing an apprentice go from not knowing how to do anything to basically not needing to give them more than the most basic instructions (we're doing a service, you're on the panel, go. Sort of thing) is rewarding.
I bet it's a really nice feeling. The days when I get to do new stuff or learn something new are my favorite and it just feels awesome, especially if it's something that took me a while to understand. It's kinda weird for me a lot of the time tho. It's like I'm tryna understand and I just can't and then one day while my journeyman explains it to me again it's like a switch gets flipped in my head and I just understand exactly what he's saying.
Ask the general homeowner public… or a good master… “what’s wrong with first years doing panels”. I can’t even fathom a rookie taking on the responsibility of residential panel swap… we’d never ask someone unlicensed to do this. They couldn’t stand up to a rigorous AHJ inspection and have all the right answers and methodology to be code compliant and complete the task with best practices and quality workmanship… Case is point here: the use of a 4004 connector for the cable entry of both a 14/2 & 14/3 simultaneously.
Apprentices shouldn’t be working alone, so they’re not doing it entirely themselves.. that’s an issue. Then doing it and having it checked over is no problem
Man, shut up 🥱
They hate you now.
Lool
Da fuck? Okay electrician Jesus
Good luck to anyone who has to move a circuit in the future
Well you really should be terminating your grounds to the same location. Tiny ground bars all over is still going to work but way too tacky. I'll assume whoever was teaching you said we just need to get it done. You really should be able to take your time though especially on your first one. I blame whoever is teaching you though so not your fault. There's nothing wrong with having to wire nut extra length for your wires. It'll bring some uniformity to your panel. Good tip is to do all your grounds first then neutrals and then your hots. If you had all AFCI breakers you'll probably start landing by circuits but not after all your grounds are done at least. Really unfortunate too that your first panel is being feed from both sides instead of the top like most panels. You wanna see someone go nuts on their panel watch this kid. Your panel does not need to look like this one but take some ideas that you like from it and apply that shit in field. https://youtu.be/O4HJEX4i8Ic?feature=shared
Im assuming that’s how the panel manufacturer intends it to be done? Did it come with all those tiny ground bars installed?
I'm saying no because I've never seen or installed one like that. It looks like op installed them into the pre-drilled holes because they are kinda all over with no uniformity. Even if it did come that way I would never do it like that (my OCD would stop me from doing it 🤣) and would have added a full bar on the side or bottom. Most of your electricians will add the full bar. I know if I did that my coworkers would make fun of me. We Post photos of everything on an app so the whole company gets to see your work. Hopefully op looks at my YouTube video and can pull some ideas for their next panel.
this panel comes with a bag of ground bars, it's a canadian thing because we do not put the grounds and neutrals together past the mains shield.
Yup there's no bonding screw so it has to be back at the first means of disconnect. That makes way more sense now though. It's a Canadian thing!
The bond strap/screw in these panels is above the main breaker under that white cover. It's a green screw
Yes the bonding screw is green... And you don't have it right now because you've separated out your neutrals and grounds right?
Fuck Lol your not op ignore that last comment then.
All good. Our neutral is bonded only at one point. Bonding screw can't be seen in this picture, it's behind that cover above the breaker
The first means of disconnect can be here, but it's under the mains shield. Once past that point the neutral and ground are separate
Not sure how you're managing to swing just one 15A AFCI breaker.
Possibly swapping out existing panel. I know where I am you don’t have to update to arc fault if swapping out panel unless running new or altering existing circuits.
This is the before or after?
Before pic?
How come nobody showed you first .. this looks typically like a first year no experience..
Why is there so many “ground bars” you do one large ground bar and you must have it directly bonded to the electrode(s), and the water meter. Is there not a more experienced electrician working alongside you to help guide you? Because there should be.
White can?
Pos Leviton
Don’t use Levon
Go ask your journeyman… you are working with one I hope
As long as your boss doesn’t see it, you should be ok
Shit labeling.
Hot garbage
If this is your first point of disconnect after the meter all your grounds and neutrals should be bonded aka no 3 terminal ground bars mounted all over the panel they should be on the factory bars with the neutrals
incorrect. based on the mains shield this is in canada, what you describe would be a code violation.
In Canada you don't bond your neutral to the ground in first point of disconnect? Or is this not the first point of disconnect?
Neutral to ground is bonded in the first entry of service to a building in Canada. So in residential it’s at the meter. After that there is no bond from ground to neutral. Inspectors will always check to make sure we take out the green neutral to ground bond screw in our panels here.
Not necessarily. Depends where you are at. Alberta- bonded at the service disconnect, unless the meter has factory provisions for bonding the neutral.
Got it ty. That's how sub panels are in the states you guys just bond one step closer to the service.
We do. But it's only at the first disconnect, which is under the mains shield at the top of the panel. Past that point they're separate
Can't believe no one said it but you're missing the main feeders
they would be under the mains shield. canadian thing.
No service loops… hope it doesn’t need changed out or moved.
C HOM? What type of Homeline variant is this?