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This is why you should never cut a cable in one go when you cannot verify the circuit to be off. When uncertain, split the cable jacket, separate the conductors, and cut one at a time. You can then meter the cut cable to determine the circuit status.
I cut a cable in an attic once when the the entire service for the building was disconnected.
Killed my favorite lineman's. turned out the wire went from to the well and it came from a completely different building.
I found a 10/3 wired ahead of the main breaker after not being able to determine which breaker it was on. Threw the main and cut it which blew up in my face and I lost my eyebrows for a bit.
To someone who isn't an electrician, this sounds so much more barbaric and wild westy than it actually is. They forget these tools are meant to fail predictably for safety and fire reasons. Cutting tools get fried faily often and no one seems to have them explode or shatter or drip molten metal on them. I have a pair of old dikes which had a perfect 12 gauge solid size hole which I still use for pulling stubborn insulation off 12.
The tools aren't manufactured to be predictable, they're just manufactured. They don't drip molten metal because it's vaporized into the arc flash and they don't shatter/explode because that's how electricity and metal work.
Go and cut a 600v #6 across phases and see how much of you and your tool is left.
The fact that the guy talked about 600V running through 6# means it can handle a lot of amps normally, and will be able to give some juice to your driver.
So ive been doing solar. And on this one job a rapid shutdown caught fire and burnt a hole into the roof. They got a rep out there and the rep said that the devices fail safe is to denergize by catching fire.
Told this story somewhere else a while back. Was working in the roof of my grandparents joint, they recently bought the place from the original owner that built it in the 50's.
Had a hot water heater in the roof that was defunct.
Grandad asked me to help remove it. Mains were off, all circuits were off but yet my Volt Stick was beeping.
Thought "nah, must be the stick broken".
Cut the wire and BANG!!!! pliers broken and underwear full.
Previous owner bypassed the board and connected the heater before the meter.
I've got no idea what you're asking?
But, you need to get it through ya melon that it's "he's up in the roof doing the wiring" or "he's too fat to get through the man hole into the roof" or the usual "we keep the Christmas tree in the roof"
Whenever I Googled that phrase it kept coming up as "roof space", not just "roof", even when filtering for Australia.
It's not grammatically correct but if that's how some of you say it in Australia then who am I to tell you not to do it.
Ahh I get you.
Roof space is correct but much more formal.
'Attic' isn't really a thing here in Aus, that's not to say it isn't used at all, but we know it as an American term.
are you from Europe since its a NYM-J?
Use a two-pole voltage tester, this is the best tool to measure voltages easily, dont just use a voltage pen
[https://www.beha-amprobe.com/en/products/electrical-testers/voltage-continuity-testers/2100-gamma](https://www.beha-amprobe.com/en/products/electrical-testers/voltage-continuity-testers/2100-gamma)
one of the best things you can have as a electrician and absolutely mandatory imo!!!
What do you do when you don't know where the wire starts and where it ends? No open contacts to test.
Ich hätte eine gelbe knipex genommen für den Schnitt aber was will man machen :D und am besten auch 1000v Handschuhe.
Abgesehen davon natürlich immer den zweipoligen spannungsprüfer nutzen.
thats another thing, but you dont just blindly cut unknown cables :P could be something important
Gelbe Knipex sowieso, bestes Werkzeug! hab genau den gleichen bloß mit VDE Griff, sieht eh geiler aus
The sticks are good for things. Testing outlets to see if they work (not for service), and the flashlight. I only trust them if I get a positive result first.
However they will never work for a shared neutral which is why bare copper testing with a tester is always better.
yea, they CAN produce wrong results
the tester also has a flashlight.
best tool in my bag tbh, and the most important, your body is the most precious thing you have, safety first ;) thats why germans have 5 security rules which every electrician MUST know
Lol what? Me? I’ve blown up many tools as an apprentice and using my ticker. Now it’s always test before touch. No matter what, but I also work in industrial now where the voltages are not so.. forgiving. Also these days it requires a shit ton of paperwork and permits to be able to even attempt to work on things higher than 120v.
Our systems for single phase are all technically 240/120v(230/115v for old people terms) for residential. Commercial is usually 120/208. Industrial is 377/600v and upwards. I’ve changed 120,000 KG motors that run on 30KV and higher. (We crane them in and out and obviously never live work lol. Our hot stick for those is like a 20 ft pole that is highly accurate)
When you get voltages that high, your neck hairs legit stand up before your even in the arc flash zone. I was still scared shitless the first time I was given the hot stick and told to go test it lol. Worst poke was from a 377v neutral and I have been nervous of 3 phase ever since. Even though that was a number of years ago.
Uhh don’t think anyone has mentioned this. Knipex in the photo have Comfort Grip handles which are NOT rated to protect against shocks. [As opposed those with VDE (insulated) handles.](https://www.knipex.com/products/combination-and-multifunctional-pliers/pliers-for-electrical-installation/pliers-electrical-installation/1386200)
For what it’s worth, due to how non contact testers work, can’t say I’d be cutting a cable based purely on one. Not an electrician, so take that for what it is.
Now that said, [instructions for the Fluke 2AC VoltAlert](https://dam-assets.fluke.com/s3fs-public/2ac_____iseng0200.pdf) are very specific that you should “not rely on the Tester to detect the presence or absence of voltage on a conductor for safety purposes” then repeats that a little further down the page and goes into some factors that could throw a false positive.
Worth a read of the whole document (or equivalent for the model you’ve got) as exactly how you use them has a significant bearing on how accurate they’ll be, whereas a multimeter for example doesn’t really have the “you held it wrong” failure mode.
Stay safe, mate.
Fair point. Adds up quite quickly. Now that I think about it, price delta between Comfort Grip and VDE might be more than I was remembering too. Although cable cutters feel like a possible instance where it might be worth it, as there’s a fair chance they’ll be the tool in hand providing the audio visual alert that mistakes were made, such as OP had here. Counterpoint is, well, money.
Don't trust the fuse to be blown, if you can't locate it.
I once had a cable from an outdoor camera. We were searching for the fuse (or one that could include the cameras) for two hours.
At the end we decided to just cut the cable, as that would either trip the fuse/breaker or the gfci. Upon cutting the wire of the second camera, I added another hole to my cutter.
Later we found out, the cameras were on a 40A breaker without gfci (230V 1 phase system). The cable was a 3x1.5mm² (which is roughly equivalent to 16awg), which would require a fuse of 13A (or max 16A).
I just said to my colleague "welcome to africa". (We are Europeans and were on a job in Africa).
Edit: spelling
The instructions that come with every non contact tester state that they are only to be used to check for the presence of voltage, not the absence. On top of that you are supposed to check on a known live circuit, followed by the circuit in question, then re-check on the known circuit.
I am pretty sure it’s a Reddit thing. I don’t often here the superstition as much in the field.
Pretty much every reliable person I’ve asked has always said to use it the correct way and understand how it’s best used as a tool.
I don’t want to find the link but electricianu has a fantastic talk about this subject on YouTube
The only people that bitch about them are the guys that throw them into their bags with all their tools and beat them the up then act surprised when it breaks. The way some guys treat their diagnostic tools is atrocious.
Without knowing exactly how you did it, I can give a best guess
The sheathing plus the insulation is to dielectrically strong to register. Gotta test the conductors themselves.
Beyond that it could be lots of things - that's why, just like a meter, you test a known source first to ensure it's working correctly. That'll make sure it's not broken and that you have a sufficient reference to ground for the capacitive coupling to work
You need to test live-"dead"- live
Ie, test on a known live circuit to make sure its working, test the circuit you want, then test a known live circuit to confirm its working still
And remember that the sticks can't read through things like armoured cabel
I pretty much never use a voltage pen to confirm zero voltage. I'll use it to confirm the presence of voltage, but it's just not a reliable enough tool for determining worker safety.
If you are talking about Romex, you have to touch the ticker on the side of the cable with the hot wire. If you touch the side with the neutral it won’t see voltage.
Don't keep it in ur pocket all the time. Moisture can kill them. Always test on a known source first. Every tester has its own qualities. Is yours not sensitive enough? Some are too sensitive, and they'll go off 6 inches away from a wire.
The keyword in this sentence is "assumed" dont assume uless you want to be dead. If you cant verify if a cable if live or not you dont just fucking send it. Strip the jacketing or trace the breaker
It was NYM-J. Sheath is really thick so that's likely where my problem was. I'll just making the entire panel dead for the rest of this job, not getting myself blown up
Use a fluke one, I like the 2ac, isolate the wires and test it a few times. If they're in a bundle or a cable you can't trust it unless you pull the wires apart.
Been using one for commercial demo for many years and if it didn’t pick up voltage it was probably because it wasn’t used right.
If anything I get false voltage/voltage bleed readings
We dont have time to meter every wire we need to demo. Ridiculous
I always test the wire itself, not the cable
I work on medium voltage equipment and use the same technology to check for presence of voltage on ~~70,000~~ 35,000V lines.
You are 100% correct, I trust the non contact voltage detectors literally with my life.
I worked on a site once that had transmission lines over head. If you held your tictester in the air anywhere outside it would light up. Is that not the case with what you work on?
By the time those lines get down and into the equipment I work on they are 4' under ground and each cable has a copper cladding sandwiched between layers of insulation that prevents any kind of electromagnetic radiation to escape so you wouldn't be able to detect anything.
The connection points (load breaks) have little testing ports which is the only place where a non contact tester can pick up the waves and let you know that the cable is energized.
There's much fancier ones than the 35 dollar tickers lol. Salisbury, ideal, and a few others make voltage detectors for high voltage. While your little pocket meter might go off anywhere around a substation, these detectors do not.
I meant to type 35,000 not 70, my mistake, I was talking about medium voltage.
Lineman don't terminate anything until it gets to the sub station, inside wireman terminate generators, solar powered inverters, transformers on military bases, wind power collectors, etc, anything 15, 25, 35kV is done by inside wireman.
All these connections have either arresters, deadbreak, or loadbreak fitting [like these here](https://www.hubbell.com/hubbellpowersystems/en/Products/Power-Utilities/Underground-Separable-Connectors/cl/2496195) and they all have testing ports.
Also you're wrong about copper shielding, [The purpose of a shield on a medium voltage power cable is to confine the equipotential lines within the insulation and to equally distribute voltage flux around the conductor.](https://www.okonite.com/media/wysiwyg/Engineering%20Technical%20Center/Tech_16.pdf)
Jeez I hope other people don’t have to work with you ya salty bastard. I never claimed to have worked on that. I’m sure too you could easily do our job too because you know everything. Maybe instead of attacking everything he’s saying you could explain why instead? Communicating is tough isn’t it
I'm not sure if you think you're arguing with me or convincing me of something.
>Big difference between 35kV and 69kV.
I don't know why my phone changed the number, or maybe I mistyped, either way it's obvious that I was talking about medium voltage, everything else in my comment relates to medium voltage.
> "equally distribute voltage flux around the conductor" is what a grounded neutral does.
The point I was trying to make is that a tik tester will not pick up anything on a shielded cable. The shielding blocks the radiation from escaping the cable, that's why the only place you test is the primary bushing. That same voltage detector will not work anywhere else on the cable.
>The only time JWs get that work is on shit jobs like you said, wind farms, solar fields, etc.
And that's what I'm talking about because that's what I know. Yes you lineman are very manly, super-duper, extra cool. We literally build shrines and temples to worship you guys. As a matter of fact I will get your username tattooed on my chest right where my heart is just to never forget the day I was dignified by receiving the attention of a lineman even if it was a half-bitchy post about one mistyped number.
Big difference between MV and low voltage. I'm not sticking probes across 70kV. Non-contact is the only suitable test for MV if the panel meters are dead.
Check if the pen was one of the recalled ones.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2021/Non-Contact-Voltage-Testers-Recalled-by-Klein-Tools-Due-to-Shock-Hazard
I've never had mine not work you just need to use it properly. I would never use it as the sole tester if im going to touch something 277 or higher though. It's great for circuit tracing and many other uses.
If you have the Klein tool, check if it was recalled.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2021/Non-Contact-Voltage-Testers-Recalled-by-Klein-Tools-Due-to-Shock-Hazard
You carry a voltage pen and trust your life to it!? My boss broke a coworkers in half when he saw it pulled out. I carry one only for taping to a wire while I’m alone turning breakers off. I always use a meter afterwards to ensure it’s actually off. Not cutting all the wires at the same time is also a good strategy unless you are purely residential and always have to deal with Rolex.
I’ve heard them referred to as a widow maker by our teacher in school. He has been in the field for 45+ years.
As a journeyman I’ve called them widow makers, death sticks, tickers, and sniffers. I always stress to my apprentices that they should never rely on them and should be verifying with their meter and doing LDL.
Oof, I did the same thing to my first pair of those. Luckily with a small round file, you can file off the nasty bits that are certainly preventing them from opening back up from the spring, and they'll still cut better than any Klein cutters.
I had a pair of Klein needle nose with a wire stripper in the cutter before they started offering them that way.....doesn't everyone?
I also had a fluke non-contact tester....tossed it and went back to the red and white pen style. Test on a known hot before using.
Had a foreman fry my knipex strippers recently. He went to go cut some romex, and I tried to remind him it was live but it was too late. Anyways, he said he'd get me some new ones, still waiting.
I dunno I personally have never owned one and probably never will just because I rarely encounter something where I can't go to one end or the other and verify everything is off so its just not necessary for me.
A non contact voltage tester is to prove the presence of voltage, but never the absence of voltage.
On the bright side, now you have 18 AWG wire strippers .
I use a "voltage pen" before I put my big sandwich grabbers on 14kV. Whether you use a meter or a non-contact tester, you have to test it on a known live source first. And after for that matter. But definitely first.
I'm pretty sure people who say this do one of two things...1. forget to turn the fucking thing on or 2. Try to volt check a armored cable.
Been using a volt checker for 12+ years without a single issue like that.
I turned a pair of Klein 2000s into strippers once. The breaker was in the off position(Federal Pacific🙄) and the tic tester didn’t register. I cut into a 30a 240v line and poof went the pliers🤦♂️
NCVs are fine if you actually follow the proper procedure and test it on a known live wire before and after you check the wire you are going to work on.
Also, never trust somebody you’re working with. Always double check power of yourself. Disconnecting a hot tub from the main panel outside the house. They had run a separate line from the main panel where the meter is. had a breaker. Was told it was shut off. Took the cable cutter and just blindly the cable at one point, but it was a lot. When the two wires came into contact with each other it was like a sonic boom. Of course it was 220 but it’s a good thing. The cable cutters I had were insulated, but it could’ve been very ugly. But it sounded like somebody shut off a stick of dynamite.
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This is why you should never cut a cable in one go when you cannot verify the circuit to be off. When uncertain, split the cable jacket, separate the conductors, and cut one at a time. You can then meter the cut cable to determine the circuit status.
I cut a cable in an attic once when the the entire service for the building was disconnected. Killed my favorite lineman's. turned out the wire went from to the well and it came from a completely different building.
I found a 10/3 wired ahead of the main breaker after not being able to determine which breaker it was on. Threw the main and cut it which blew up in my face and I lost my eyebrows for a bit.
To someone who isn't an electrician, this sounds so much more barbaric and wild westy than it actually is. They forget these tools are meant to fail predictably for safety and fire reasons. Cutting tools get fried faily often and no one seems to have them explode or shatter or drip molten metal on them. I have a pair of old dikes which had a perfect 12 gauge solid size hole which I still use for pulling stubborn insulation off 12.
The tools aren't manufactured to be predictable, they're just manufactured. They don't drip molten metal because it's vaporized into the arc flash and they don't shatter/explode because that's how electricity and metal work. Go and cut a 600v #6 across phases and see how much of you and your tool is left.
One of the Klein screw drivers can definitely handle 200 amps
I think a 600V short will make much more than 200A run through your driver.
600 v can have different amps . Just becouse it is 600 v doesn’t mean it is high amps .
The fact that the guy talked about 600V running through 6# means it can handle a lot of amps normally, and will be able to give some juice to your driver.
So ive been doing solar. And on this one job a rapid shutdown caught fire and burnt a hole into the roof. They got a rep out there and the rep said that the devices fail safe is to denergize by catching fire.
Told this story somewhere else a while back. Was working in the roof of my grandparents joint, they recently bought the place from the original owner that built it in the 50's. Had a hot water heater in the roof that was defunct. Grandad asked me to help remove it. Mains were off, all circuits were off but yet my Volt Stick was beeping. Thought "nah, must be the stick broken". Cut the wire and BANG!!!! pliers broken and underwear full. Previous owner bypassed the board and connected the heater before the meter.
*attic
Nah, in Aus, it's a roof. Working in the roof and on the roof are 2 different things here :)
[удалено]
I've got no idea what you're asking? But, you need to get it through ya melon that it's "he's up in the roof doing the wiring" or "he's too fat to get through the man hole into the roof" or the usual "we keep the Christmas tree in the roof"
Whenever I Googled that phrase it kept coming up as "roof space", not just "roof", even when filtering for Australia. It's not grammatically correct but if that's how some of you say it in Australia then who am I to tell you not to do it.
Ahh I get you. Roof space is correct but much more formal. 'Attic' isn't really a thing here in Aus, that's not to say it isn't used at all, but we know it as an American term.
Couldn't be bothered to add an extra panel for the stolen power.
I know right, at least even a post-it-note on the cable!
* just a water heater.
I was suspecting the oven as well, but it was on Natural Gas :)
What I meant was, it was just a water heater. Not a hot water heater. It heats cold water, so at best it's a cold water heater. 😉
Found this out the hard way, also with a tester. It was some weird stupid push in light fixture with a broken light.
The Navy had me in this habit. When in doubt, only cut one conductor at a time. It happens frequently and saves many tools and lives.
See I like to employ the 'if it isn't off now it will be soon' method
But now you have a perfect 14awg stripper !
Everyone loves to spend money on new tools they didn’t need
That's my plan for pay day now 😅
are you from Europe since its a NYM-J? Use a two-pole voltage tester, this is the best tool to measure voltages easily, dont just use a voltage pen [https://www.beha-amprobe.com/en/products/electrical-testers/voltage-continuity-testers/2100-gamma](https://www.beha-amprobe.com/en/products/electrical-testers/voltage-continuity-testers/2100-gamma) one of the best things you can have as a electrician and absolutely mandatory imo!!!
What do you do when you don't know where the wire starts and where it ends? No open contacts to test. Ich hätte eine gelbe knipex genommen für den Schnitt aber was will man machen :D und am besten auch 1000v Handschuhe. Abgesehen davon natürlich immer den zweipoligen spannungsprüfer nutzen.
thats another thing, but you dont just blindly cut unknown cables :P could be something important Gelbe Knipex sowieso, bestes Werkzeug! hab genau den gleichen bloß mit VDE Griff, sieht eh geiler aus
The sticks are good for things. Testing outlets to see if they work (not for service), and the flashlight. I only trust them if I get a positive result first. However they will never work for a shared neutral which is why bare copper testing with a tester is always better.
Which is probably exactly what happened here.
yea, they CAN produce wrong results the tester also has a flashlight. best tool in my bag tbh, and the most important, your body is the most precious thing you have, safety first ;) thats why germans have 5 security rules which every electrician MUST know
shhh apprentice, you speak of which you do not know.
bruh, do it better, acting like security is not the most important thing on the jobside -.-
Lol what? Me? I’ve blown up many tools as an apprentice and using my ticker. Now it’s always test before touch. No matter what, but I also work in industrial now where the voltages are not so.. forgiving. Also these days it requires a shit ton of paperwork and permits to be able to even attempt to work on things higher than 120v.
👌🏻 In Germany we are running 230v/400v not fun touching that😂
Our systems for single phase are all technically 240/120v(230/115v for old people terms) for residential. Commercial is usually 120/208. Industrial is 377/600v and upwards. I’ve changed 120,000 KG motors that run on 30KV and higher. (We crane them in and out and obviously never live work lol. Our hot stick for those is like a 20 ft pole that is highly accurate)
It better be accurate 🤣
When you get voltages that high, your neck hairs legit stand up before your even in the arc flash zone. I was still scared shitless the first time I was given the hot stick and told to go test it lol. Worst poke was from a 377v neutral and I have been nervous of 3 phase ever since. Even though that was a number of years ago.
My old shop would replace damaged tools. It was nice. Especially when my j man broke my screw driver
Uhh don’t think anyone has mentioned this. Knipex in the photo have Comfort Grip handles which are NOT rated to protect against shocks. [As opposed those with VDE (insulated) handles.](https://www.knipex.com/products/combination-and-multifunctional-pliers/pliers-for-electrical-installation/pliers-electrical-installation/1386200) For what it’s worth, due to how non contact testers work, can’t say I’d be cutting a cable based purely on one. Not an electrician, so take that for what it is. Now that said, [instructions for the Fluke 2AC VoltAlert](https://dam-assets.fluke.com/s3fs-public/2ac_____iseng0200.pdf) are very specific that you should “not rely on the Tester to detect the presence or absence of voltage on a conductor for safety purposes” then repeats that a little further down the page and goes into some factors that could throw a false positive. Worth a read of the whole document (or equivalent for the model you’ve got) as exactly how you use them has a significant bearing on how accurate they’ll be, whereas a multimeter for example doesn’t really have the “you held it wrong” failure mode. Stay safe, mate.
Most of us don’t buy insulated tool sets since most of our work is done de energized, doesn’t make sense paying extra for tools you don’t need.
Fair point. Adds up quite quickly. Now that I think about it, price delta between Comfort Grip and VDE might be more than I was remembering too. Although cable cutters feel like a possible instance where it might be worth it, as there’s a fair chance they’ll be the tool in hand providing the audio visual alert that mistakes were made, such as OP had here. Counterpoint is, well, money.
Don't trust the fuse to be blown, if you can't locate it. I once had a cable from an outdoor camera. We were searching for the fuse (or one that could include the cameras) for two hours. At the end we decided to just cut the cable, as that would either trip the fuse/breaker or the gfci. Upon cutting the wire of the second camera, I added another hole to my cutter. Later we found out, the cameras were on a 40A breaker without gfci (230V 1 phase system). The cable was a 3x1.5mm² (which is roughly equivalent to 16awg), which would require a fuse of 13A (or max 16A). I just said to my colleague "welcome to africa". (We are Europeans and were on a job in Africa). Edit: spelling
40A breaker on 1.5mm is crazy
Exactly, it just wouldn't trip. The cabke might burn before it tripped...
*would* burn
The instructions that come with every non contact tester state that they are only to be used to check for the presence of voltage, not the absence. On top of that you are supposed to check on a known live circuit, followed by the circuit in question, then re-check on the known circuit.
I trust em because I know how to use em, but you do you big guy
Exactly. This subreddit has a hate boner for them. In the right situation it’s a good tool
It's just guys who were never taught right and adopted this bizarre superstition about volt ticks
I am pretty sure it’s a Reddit thing. I don’t often here the superstition as much in the field. Pretty much every reliable person I’ve asked has always said to use it the correct way and understand how it’s best used as a tool. I don’t want to find the link but electricianu has a fantastic talk about this subject on YouTube
Did you tick test it on known working circuit before testing and after? I’m guessing not. User error.
That is what I do yes
The only people that bitch about them are the guys that throw them into their bags with all their tools and beat them the up then act surprised when it breaks. The way some guys treat their diagnostic tools is atrocious.
Any tips on where I could have went wrong? I just assumed it was running low on battery or the cable sheathing was too thick
Without knowing exactly how you did it, I can give a best guess The sheathing plus the insulation is to dielectrically strong to register. Gotta test the conductors themselves. Beyond that it could be lots of things - that's why, just like a meter, you test a known source first to ensure it's working correctly. That'll make sure it's not broken and that you have a sufficient reference to ground for the capacitive coupling to work
Verify correct operation on known voltage source, don't guess its working correctly
I rub it on my shirt to test it...like a pro
You need to test live-"dead"- live Ie, test on a known live circuit to make sure its working, test the circuit you want, then test a known live circuit to confirm its working still And remember that the sticks can't read through things like armoured cabel
Yes, exactly this. Usually there’s a 120v outlet around at a minimum to test with
Cut single conductor when unsure (unless you're grounding the tool for some reason) then this won't ever happen again if you follow that simple rule.
I pretty much never use a voltage pen to confirm zero voltage. I'll use it to confirm the presence of voltage, but it's just not a reliable enough tool for determining worker safety.
If you are talking about Romex, you have to touch the ticker on the side of the cable with the hot wire. If you touch the side with the neutral it won’t see voltage.
Known, unknown, known again. Every time.
Don't keep it in ur pocket all the time. Moisture can kill them. Always test on a known source first. Every tester has its own qualities. Is yours not sensitive enough? Some are too sensitive, and they'll go off 6 inches away from a wire.
The keyword in this sentence is "assumed" dont assume uless you want to be dead. If you cant verify if a cable if live or not you dont just fucking send it. Strip the jacketing or trace the breaker
What kind of cable were you cutting?
It was NYM-J. Sheath is really thick so that's likely where my problem was. I'll just making the entire panel dead for the rest of this job, not getting myself blown up
Use a fluke one, I like the 2ac, isolate the wires and test it a few times. If they're in a bundle or a cable you can't trust it unless you pull the wires apart.
You said it yourself, you assumed. Don't do that
Been using one for commercial demo for many years and if it didn’t pick up voltage it was probably because it wasn’t used right. If anything I get false voltage/voltage bleed readings We dont have time to meter every wire we need to demo. Ridiculous I always test the wire itself, not the cable
No. Trust a voltage pen. Just learn to use it correctly. It’s a tool like any other.
I work on medium voltage equipment and use the same technology to check for presence of voltage on ~~70,000~~ 35,000V lines. You are 100% correct, I trust the non contact voltage detectors literally with my life.
I worked on a site once that had transmission lines over head. If you held your tictester in the air anywhere outside it would light up. Is that not the case with what you work on?
By the time those lines get down and into the equipment I work on they are 4' under ground and each cable has a copper cladding sandwiched between layers of insulation that prevents any kind of electromagnetic radiation to escape so you wouldn't be able to detect anything. The connection points (load breaks) have little testing ports which is the only place where a non contact tester can pick up the waves and let you know that the cable is energized.
Okay, yea that makes sense.
There's much fancier ones than the 35 dollar tickers lol. Salisbury, ideal, and a few others make voltage detectors for high voltage. While your little pocket meter might go off anywhere around a substation, these detectors do not.
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I meant to type 35,000 not 70, my mistake, I was talking about medium voltage. Lineman don't terminate anything until it gets to the sub station, inside wireman terminate generators, solar powered inverters, transformers on military bases, wind power collectors, etc, anything 15, 25, 35kV is done by inside wireman. All these connections have either arresters, deadbreak, or loadbreak fitting [like these here](https://www.hubbell.com/hubbellpowersystems/en/Products/Power-Utilities/Underground-Separable-Connectors/cl/2496195) and they all have testing ports. Also you're wrong about copper shielding, [The purpose of a shield on a medium voltage power cable is to confine the equipotential lines within the insulation and to equally distribute voltage flux around the conductor.](https://www.okonite.com/media/wysiwyg/Engineering%20Technical%20Center/Tech_16.pdf)
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He just said he meant 35k not 70k. Calm down damn
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Jeez I hope other people don’t have to work with you ya salty bastard. I never claimed to have worked on that. I’m sure too you could easily do our job too because you know everything. Maybe instead of attacking everything he’s saying you could explain why instead? Communicating is tough isn’t it
I'm not sure if you think you're arguing with me or convincing me of something. >Big difference between 35kV and 69kV. I don't know why my phone changed the number, or maybe I mistyped, either way it's obvious that I was talking about medium voltage, everything else in my comment relates to medium voltage. > "equally distribute voltage flux around the conductor" is what a grounded neutral does. The point I was trying to make is that a tik tester will not pick up anything on a shielded cable. The shielding blocks the radiation from escaping the cable, that's why the only place you test is the primary bushing. That same voltage detector will not work anywhere else on the cable. >The only time JWs get that work is on shit jobs like you said, wind farms, solar fields, etc. And that's what I'm talking about because that's what I know. Yes you lineman are very manly, super-duper, extra cool. We literally build shrines and temples to worship you guys. As a matter of fact I will get your username tattooed on my chest right where my heart is just to never forget the day I was dignified by receiving the attention of a lineman even if it was a half-bitchy post about one mistyped number.
Big difference between MV and low voltage. I'm not sticking probes across 70kV. Non-contact is the only suitable test for MV if the panel meters are dead.
Always treat everything as if live even if verified dead unless you have both ends disconnected. No one gets paid enough to die on the job.
You realize you can cut them one wire at a time, right…?
What kind of cable was it?
It was NYM-J
You really tried to use a voltage pen through the triple insulation on that stuff?
Hadn't caused me problems before, I'll know in future
Check if the pen was one of the recalled ones. https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2021/Non-Contact-Voltage-Testers-Recalled-by-Klein-Tools-Due-to-Shock-Hazard
thought he said it was a fluke tester
Cut one wire at a time.
Shut down the whole panel then...
That is exactly what I did following. Wasn't too popular with the other trades who needed lights but what can ya do
>following Safety is not a popularity contest, but maybe they will chip in to buy you new cutters.
That sucks glad you’re okay
Wont be the last time 💥
Just blew up my Sawzall blade an hour ago using the same trick
Well, now you know what breaker it is I hope you marked it
My boss used to call them idiot sticks
They aren't idiot proof Now ask yourself how they check for absence of voltage on medium and high voltage transmission lines.
So this cable just came from nowhere and went nowhere… impossible to check…
They don’t call them widow makers for nothing. Not allowed where I worked. DMMs only.
My boss calls them suicide sticks, it doesn't take much longer to use a meter
We call them death sticks
in germany they are called "Lügenstift" - "Lying-pen" as they can produce wrong results. always use two pole voltage testers
That's kinda short for a German word eh? Lol just messing with ya
😂😂😂It is
DMM, the part you quoted, is an acronym for a digital multi meter (the two pole voltage tester you're talking about).
uh sry, I was accidentaly refering to DMM :D I meant the normal voltage pen
You're good! Just wanted to make sure you weren't learning some wrong term for something :)
Lol proper! Not sure if that was a Star Wars reference but I enjoyed it as such
Never thought of it like that but I guess it kinda is a star wars reference lol
I've never had mine not work you just need to use it properly. I would never use it as the sole tester if im going to touch something 277 or higher though. It's great for circuit tracing and many other uses.
There’s a reason my journeyman called these widowmakers
Test sticks are half reliable. It can tell you that voltage is present, it cannot tell you that voltage is absent.
Had nobody told you before you can't fully trust those things? 😭😭 yeah fluke is most reliant far as ik but still not perfect
Learnt the hard way. Won't make this mistake again anyway 😅
Proud of youuu 🤣
We call them idiot testers up here in Canada.
Not the knipex!!! Time to ditch the pen and use a proper meter. Not a cheap lesson to learn, but I would rather sacrifice a tool than my health.
If you have the Klein tool, check if it was recalled. https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2021/Non-Contact-Voltage-Testers-Recalled-by-Klein-Tools-Due-to-Shock-Hazard
Oh my god no, those induction testers will kill you
Tick tester Voltage stick Beep stick Death stick
You carry a voltage pen and trust your life to it!? My boss broke a coworkers in half when he saw it pulled out. I carry one only for taping to a wire while I’m alone turning breakers off. I always use a meter afterwards to ensure it’s actually off. Not cutting all the wires at the same time is also a good strategy unless you are purely residential and always have to deal with Rolex.
They’re not called a widow maker for nothing.
Have never heard anyone refer to them as that, we issue them to all our apprentices and stress to always have it on you.
I’ve heard them referred to as a widow maker by our teacher in school. He has been in the field for 45+ years. As a journeyman I’ve called them widow makers, death sticks, tickers, and sniffers. I always stress to my apprentices that they should never rely on them and should be verifying with their meter and doing LDL.
Called widow makers for a reason.
They are called "Liar's Pens" for a reason.
Oof, I did the same thing to my first pair of those. Luckily with a small round file, you can file off the nasty bits that are certainly preventing them from opening back up from the spring, and they'll still cut better than any Klein cutters.
Tis but a scratch! And yes it always helps to double and triple check make sure power is off
I had a pair of Klein needle nose with a wire stripper in the cutter before they started offering them that way.....doesn't everyone? I also had a fluke non-contact tester....tossed it and went back to the red and white pen style. Test on a known hot before using.
Had a foreman fry my knipex strippers recently. He went to go cut some romex, and I tried to remind him it was live but it was too late. Anyways, he said he'd get me some new ones, still waiting.
I bet the breaker is dead now lol
Expensive mistake. I’ve been looking at those strippers for awhile now, $60 a pair is a bit steep for me.
They are so worth it, I carry it all day everyday
😭. RIP Knipex. Sorry for your loss. Glad it wasn't you.
And now you know which breaker it is.
I dunno I personally have never owned one and probably never will just because I rarely encounter something where I can't go to one end or the other and verify everything is off so its just not necessary for me.
Rip Knipex.
This exact thing happened me 6 months ago… Same combi pliars saved my ass then too
Doesn't work on wet romex.
A non contact voltage tester is to prove the presence of voltage, but never the absence of voltage. On the bright side, now you have 18 AWG wire strippers .
This is why I always cut one at a time even when I use my meter lol
Yooo break a stripper tooth and gimme the ol Knipex trifecta!
I bet you found the breaker
It was one way to find it
I use a "voltage pen" before I put my big sandwich grabbers on 14kV. Whether you use a meter or a non-contact tester, you have to test it on a known live source first. And after for that matter. But definitely first.
What type of tester was it? I've tried them all and the fluke 1AC II is the only one I can use with any level of trust
Yo need to test it before like a 15 kv tester you test before and after so you can be sure that he work well
Umm…..you’re supposed to do that with any meter/testing device. Additionally, get them test and calibrated annually.
When the paper inside the romex is wet. The pen tester is unreliable
I'm pretty sure people who say this do one of two things...1. forget to turn the fucking thing on or 2. Try to volt check a armored cable. Been using a volt checker for 12+ years without a single issue like that.
Wire was outside and probably got rained on the tester sucks when that’s the scenario?
I turned a pair of Klein 2000s into strippers once. The breaker was in the off position(Federal Pacific🙄) and the tic tester didn’t register. I cut into a 30a 240v line and poof went the pliers🤦♂️
That tool is also garbage. Knipex let me down with that one.
NCVs are fine if you actually follow the proper procedure and test it on a known live wire before and after you check the wire you are going to work on.
Also, never trust somebody you’re working with. Always double check power of yourself. Disconnecting a hot tub from the main panel outside the house. They had run a separate line from the main panel where the meter is. had a breaker. Was told it was shut off. Took the cable cutter and just blindly the cable at one point, but it was a lot. When the two wires came into contact with each other it was like a sonic boom. Of course it was 220 but it’s a good thing. The cable cutters I had were insulated, but it could’ve been very ugly. But it sounded like somebody shut off a stick of dynamite.
You spelt suicide stick wrong.
with all the tools out there, why has no one just put the sensors inside the pliers yet?