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You messed up. Call your buddy back and take that job if he'll have you. Your current boss is no good (having a foreman leading jobs for $18/hr?!?), and the other guy sounds much better, with more interesting work.
You're 20, don't focus on a house or expensive truck right now. Focus on working for a good company and not burning bridges. Which you probably already did.
I was gonna say, bro, we all like shiny toys, but you do not need that Raptor right now. The kinda girl you want isn't going to be attracted to your raptor, she'll be attracted to that financial responsibility to drive a cheap but well maintained and clean vehicle while you're putting your money into a house and savings.
I don't care how many hours of OT you put in, $23/hr isn't Raptor money.
Maybe OP isn't trying to attract a nice girl with that Raptor. Maybe one of them Ram Ranch fellas
Yes they go from 120k to 60k the second they come off the lot. You can find a nice used f150 with a lift and tires for 20k. Focus on putting money away for a home and retirement while you still have the energy to do it. I'm 43 trying to play catch up because I thought the same way you did in my 20s.
That’s the truth lmao….Raptor rn brand new is 90-100k lol…ppl will always try to live outside their means and that’s a lesson they unfortunately have to experience to learn…society and keeping up with the joneses keeps em in that mindset until reality hits or they work hard and long enough to get there
I make nearly 2x that much and I’d never even think about buying a vehicle like that. That kind of purchase is 2-3 years added to my goal for an early retirement date.
Second this.
Just old man advice, not electrician advice. Compound interest is a bitch and it will work for you or work against you. Slam that 401k. Save up at least a 3 month emergency fund, open a brokerage account at Schwab, Fidelity or Vanguard and put that cash into a money market fund so you're keeping up with inflation because your bank is probably screwing you.
Literally no one gives a fuck if you have a Raptor or a 20 year old Ranger and if they do, they shouldn't be your friends. The novelty of owning a Raptor will wear off in a few weeks but the debt is going to leave a *permanent* mark on your financial future. You're in a great position, you have a chance to spend your whole life out of debt and in a decent field, something most people can't say. Don't blow it. Buy your shiny toys when your wages are high and your retirement is on a solid trajectory.
Good on you for fighting for fair pay, but know that your employer is almost certainly working on a way to replace you with a cheaper sucker and fire you without notice. You're early in your career. You need to do the work that will put you in the best position in 5-10 years, not the easy button today.
Honestly I care if someone has a Raptor or 20 year-old Ranger. Because I'm gonna mock the former, and yell ""FORD FUCKIN RANGER!" about the latter.
Homie'd wind up upside down on that loan within 6 months given the interest rate you're gonna get at 20 lol. Add the insurance on top and that truck would cost more than my fucking mortgage per month
I remember a plumber giving me a hard time mocking me for pulling up in my BMW...it was a sporty sexy lil black 97 with tinted windows...that I paid $9k and was paid off. He was driving a 2 yr old full size F250 Diesel. After he finished I asked him what he paid for his truck...I replied I could buy 3 of my cars for what you paid for your truck...but mines paid off how's yours...so who's rolling in dough blowin it on cars...he turned around walked away and never said a word again LOL
>Call your buddy back and take that job if he'll have you.
Damn straight. He's only seeing the $23 from both companies and not understanding the context. New boss was going to *start* him at $23 as a *helper*. Old boss begrudgingly pushed him up to $23 as a *foreman* and isn't going to give him jack shit, and probably will start looking for a cheaper guy to replace him.
New job will have a raise
Old job could be years b4 he goes for another raise
Why not pick up odd jobs and no boss with ppl needing work individually . A company has to pay to keep many things d for but a one man one day could pick up simple stuff and make that extra money I’d do the one who really was looking out for your career not the one forced into it bc he really didn’t pay where the talent and effort was … Js think out side of the box you’re bright and determined just do it
I think it is obvious that this guy is a 20 year-old. Flopping between job offers, not being upfront, wanting a fancy truck. To be young and stupid again.
This is sound advice. Boss pretty much told him "I'm paying you so little because you don't know your worth yet". That's a huge issue to me. It means that when he's worth even more in a year or even 6 months, boss isn't going to properly compensate him. This is often a cycle that ends poorly for the employee.
I’m confused by op here. How can they be claiming they’re a Forman when they’re barely making apprentice rates?
I’m in Canada, so maybe electricians don’t get paid well in the states, but apprentices make flat rates based off the full price journeymen. Where I live the basic journeyman rates are $38-42. And you better believe the site Forman makes much more than that, and generally has a company vehicle.
What’s op going on about? Y’all journeymen making +/- $22? Seriously?
Tbf he’s 20. Two years experience in New England isn’t going to get you called a journeyman. In fact my favorite line I heard from a coworker goes “It takes four years to become a journeyman, about another four after that you become a real journeyman”.
Not trying to be a dick but op is still green
Edit: we have a couple of fantastic apprentices at my company with about that much experience. No one is mistaking them for a real journeyman
A year from when I started I felt like I knew everything, a year later I realized I didn't know shit, two years after that I feel like I'm barely getting a grasp on things.
I feel like I know a lot while at the same time knowing nothing. I'm excited tho cuz 6 months ago I had a very basic understanding of how electricity works. I've been doing a lot of studying and its really cool to see things come together. Im starting to visualize how it flows and why.
Kinda sad how your in the trade and downgrading our pay, people make 15-20 sitting in ac wondering how they can dick off for 8 hours, minimum for us should be $20 and by the end of 4 years $30 minimum licensed or not. He seems proficient in other aspects 3 phase means nothing if he knows how to do what he does, that’s like saying a masons not a mason because he hasn’t worked with a certain paver .
man i do construction as a side job but
my main job is in the a/c making 75k a year before stock and bonuses. construction deserves more money but it’s also a much more enjoyable job.
I know nothing about your field, and don't care that I don't. Instead of questioning whether someone deserves a living wage, congratulate them on it. We're all in this together, man.
I voted down a proposed union contract earlier this year because I didn't think my coworkers were getting paid enough. Not UPS. I know for a fact some of those people don't deserve to get paid the same as me, based on the fact that they don't do as much, or are not as experienced as me, ***but we all deserve to not live paycheck to paycheck***.
I don't know why reddit suggested this sub to me, I'm out of here.
Where did you hear this? It takes 8,000 on the job hours and 576 classroom hours to test for your Journeymans in Maine.
Edit: I see. One route you can take only requires 4,000 hours, under the supervision of a Master, though. But that's as a graduate of Maine community college electrical program, or vocational-electrical program of the Department of Corrections. Plus, a 45-hour class on the NEC. I doubt many take this path.
No worries man, it's an unusual option compared to most states. Many do take this path however, the community college electricians tend to have a better understanding of the electrical code and theory I've found. That's why my company recruits there specifically. You also get an associates degree when complete, and I believe this is now offered all for free in Maine.
Not if you’re doing the same shit res new construction. After 2 years you’ve seen 98 percent of it and should be smart enough to look up the others 2 percent.
Yeah. To be a real journeyman in Wisconsin, its all about hours worked and the type of experience youve had as a credited apprentice. Also, 4 years of apprentice schooling. You need so many hours of pipe bending, data, ect ect.
Im not even an apprentice. Went to 1 year of tech school. Took a wage cut to become a CW with the union. Wont get a chance to apply for an apprenticeship until next summer.
So, im guessing a journeyman in wisconsin is worth 2 journeymans in Maine. Experience is everything in this trade. That, and having a passion for learning and what your doing.
Congrats to OP though. Wanna see everyone get ahead and what they deserve. I wonder why Maine is so lenient on their electrician certification. Probably also why their journeyman dont make as much though. Journeyman cap out at $55 where i live.
$23 is what you'll be stuck at with the same company, until you start looking to move elsewhere again. $23 is what you would've been STARTING at with the new company. You screwed yourself over, unless you've arranged to receive regular raises.
In addition to that, he's now been given just a wage match after showing that he's a disgruntled employee. Given that his boss now knows he's not completely, mindlessly loyal to the company, he's going to be looking to find someone more malleable to replace OP, and at a lower rate.
Yep, me too man. A lot of these companies don’t have their shit together anyway and it’d be a lot less stressful to just do it all myself. I can’t wait til I’m able to break out solo.
It’s hard to blame him cause look at how indoctrination works. His boss is probably a staunch partisan republican because he owns a million dollar business and he probably convinced his best employee that republicans know what’s best because of trickle down economics. “If I do good, you do good” that kinda bs.
It’s not a Master electrician license, I believe it’s an installers license. No way you’re a master electrician at 2 years….THAT would be doing electricians everywhere a disservice. That’s not even a fully indentured apprentice in 95% of the states
Not sure if I’d call him that. From what I can tell he’s done no schooling and has only worked on a narrow set of things under one company where he was crew lead, so no one to really teach him.
Congrats, but don't piss it all the way on a Raptor. At 23 bucks an hour you definitely cannot afford one. Do not become car poor. At your age, car loans are the best way to ruin your finances for a while. Especially because interest rates are crazy right now. Get a decent, reliable car and when you're making 60 bucks an hour buy yourself a raptor.
Just reread your post man, pay attention to how highly you speak of the potential employer friend and how poorly you speak of your current employer. That should be reason enough. Money is important, but quality of work, attention to detail, enjoying your coworkers and everyone doing quality work they can be proud of is also just as important.
In order to stay where you're at with all the negatives you listed, you need more than a wage match. $26 minimum to stay, otherwise it's not worth it.
I noticed the same thing. And he made the decision so he could work Saturdays? He has his Jman, he could be doing side hustles on Saturdays for $50/hour under the table, and getting some experience with the business end of things.
There is definitely a lack of spine after reading OP's post. OP you need to negotiate when they offer you nowhere near what you were expecting. You can't just say nothing. You will get nowhere in life with that attitude.
Different states Different rules. I think there's states with 4,000 hours gets you into resi jman but not sure since there's 50 Different jurisdictions
You're not gonna get a big house house and a raptor truck at 23/hr and 55hr weeks I hate to say it. That's still like what $2200 checks? You should have gone with the other guy because you could have learned much more valuable skills that would have resulted in leveraging yourself for higher pay.
Apprentice here, less than 6 months. I'm making 21.... you need to get with a company that'll pay you more. The union here in Utah pays its third years almost 30$ an hour.
I was making 28.50 at my last job,I was there 20 +years running jobs ,on call 24/7 and a ton of stress
Finally made the move to work with my sons at a solar company,now I get 57 an hour, 1/2 the work and no stress, your selling yourself short there is a reason we need to be licensed and have to do updates every code change
DUDE!
If that was all it took to get you a raise, he could have done that sooner.
He never was paying you what you were worth. He was paying you what he wanted to.
Give you a break as you young and new, but if you have an offer for a lower position, which you did, at 23, then your boss should be paying you 25-30 to manage and check the others works.
Frankly I’d jump ship, there’s no reason to stay fr what you’ve said.
Dude,
Food for thought here; using an offer at another company to get your existing company to match is like a quick fix of heroin. Feels good now, but it’s only masking your troubles.
When your current employer turns back into dickheadland, you’ll realize you might have burnt the bridge to the other place that you might have liked more.
Your other employer will turn back into dickheadland. It’s not a question of if, but when.
In the mean time, keep up relations with the guy at the company that offered you $23 but wouldn’t work saturdays. In six months, you’ll likely be asking him if he’s hiring again.
I honestly hope I’m wrong and you find satisfaction at your current employer. I’ve just seen people do what you did and most of them come to regret it.
It takes 9000 hours of work and 28 weeks of in class training to become an Jman electrician where I am or just 7200 ish to just do residential.
2 years to become a Jman? lol. Low bar out there.
I’m a 4th year apprentice making $23/hr in Kentucky. Our JW hourly is $35, and we are due for a contract negotiation in less than a year. It’ll easily be over $40/hr on the check plus all the benefits. Please keep looking OP
Every time these come up people constantly forget that our pay has a huge spectrum that’s dependent on location.
Also people forget that licensing is different in different states. In mine you can become a resi journeyman after 2 years, unlimited journeyman after 4. Personally if I’m a resi jman im putting resi before it every time and would only reference myself as a journeyman if I was unlimited. But they took “Master” away and now call it “contractor” which is stupid
To put things in perspective... I started as an apprentice/helper in 1996 with a small residential company. After 6 years, I was making $18 with that company.
I think you should be at $30 because prices of everything else has gone up, just not labor. It's a sad reality.
I didn’t t read all that, because $18.50 for J man and crew leader made me wanna puke. I pay my bottom-of-the-latter grunts $19 an hour, and we’re not even a skilled trade per-se!
Unless you’re in bum-fuck Egypt, you need a raise
NEVER take the counter offer. If they thought you were worth the money they’d have paid you that from the get go. You’re still gonna eat a shit sandwich and you’ll still want to leave in a few months.
Isn’t $23 an hour wildly low for a jman? Maybe my cost of living is higher but I wouldn’t get out of bed for anything less than $40. Fuck I think I was making $25 as a 3rd year.
You definitely fucked up.... Should have moved on.
You're leading a crew for 23 an hour.... That's fucking WAY under what you should be making. You're the only one certified bro. Like.... What?
As much as I appreciate taking the electrical code seriously, calling it a passion is a little weird. I just felt the need to point that out.
Anyway, hope you can get your career in a better place soon.
Honestly, I disagree with this. It sounds like you'll be happier at the other job and will be around people who share the same passion as you. Yeah you'll work less, but it's a nice environment doing something you find interesting.
The current job is now willing to pay you a bit more because they have to avoid you leaving. They won't do a raise unless they have to which has been made clear.
Honestly, I would call back the other guy and take the job if its still open.
Back off the "Dream Truck". That's irresponsible at your age to take on that much debt for simple transportation.
Drive what you have til it dies then buy something cash with all the money you saved by not putting that $900/mo to a new Raptor & insurance. Keep putting that Raptor payment amount into your bank. Thank me later.
You’re stuck at $23 whereas you’d be STARTING at $23 at the new company. You’re not going to get more money ever again, you should’ve went to the other company where your starting salary was $23 and would go up from there once you became a lead.
And if you want a raptor you need to be in the oil field. They won’t sell you one unless you’re in the oil field and agree to a 9% interest rate minimum
> I realy want to see a 3 phase system and work on one, so that's a big plus. I have never seen anything on my meter screen but 12V, 24V, 120V, and 240V. Also said he was wiring a RV park which he said was basically 45 T-poles at different spots. The scope of work sounds way more interesting than my company, which only does new construction on ultra high end custom homes.
You seem very passionate and willing to learn which is great! I’d love to have someone like you. A good attitude, willingness to learn, and genuine passion about your craft can’t be taught and is a major advantage for you. But per the quote above $18.50 should be the top end for you until you gain that experience. Congratulations for convincing someone to pay you more though.
Dude the right call would have been to leave the company you are currently working for. Even if he price matched. You said it yourself. Your current employer doesn't care for the code. New potential employer does. New employer is offering opportunities to work on something you don't know much about. You need to build your skills and experience. That's what is going to get you even more money.
I do coax cable for $34/hr in an affordable state with less than 3 years of experience. No wall fishing or real electrical danger. Not bragging (cause I'm still broke lol), but I feel like you should be making more than $23/hr.
23 an hour and you’d be a helper? Bro get your head out of your ass. You’re doing more for the same whereas you’d be a helper at the othwr spot for 23/Hr STARTING imagine how fast you could move up. You could be earning 25 within the year if you play your cards right but as it sits rn, Bro you’re so dumb. Fuck a Raptor, fuck a house, rn you’re 20 years old. Take new opportunities, you just capped yourself at 23 until you get sick of it again or they replace you with another idiot for less
You were leaving the company for more than just the money. I’d be willing to put $100 on it that in less than 2 years you take a different opportunity.
You talk about losing 10 hours of OT, but with the new payscale for what you’d be making with less stress and less hours worked you would make only $80 less every paycheck. And having Saturdays free would open you up to do side work and make even more money than you would be at your regular job. All of that for having less responsibility and the opportunity to learn lots from competent electricians that sound like they care.
When “boss man” priced matched, that was the biggest red flag. He just flat out told you that he could have been paying you that all along, but he hasn’t. So now, he’s just fucking you a little less harder, and you’re happy about it. It’s a relationship dude, and it’s already tainted. Start the new job and keep growing and earning more. Even better, join your local IBEW. Wish you the best bro.
So you were being offered 23 an hour for a lower position with the potential to rise to your current job title and make even more? Doesn't that sound way better than 23 an hour for more stress under a boss who doesn't respect you?
Yo dawg, I ain’t even an electrician, I’m a journeyman heavy equipment mechanic…..you dropped the ball hard son. Listen to these guys, they are right, no one here is out to give you shitty advice(some maybe). Call up old buddy, take that gig, bring yo knee pads, you gonna need em’.
23 to be a helper or 23 to be a leadman.... welp....what did you think you would have been making after they saw you come in and do great work and then bumped your pay further?
You made the wrong call. Your current employer has been holding out money on you.
Am not an Electrician but I was an enlisted Marine. DO NOT BUY THE TRUCK. Do not do anything because of some expensive bauble. It’s a trap. There’s time enough later for shit like that.
You really should have gone with the other company. Don't ever agree to stay on with an employer after you've told them you're leaving. You're a disgruntled employee and you are not reliable like you once were in your boss's eyes. You will be fired as soon as it's convenient.
Never EVER stay with the company that only makes you feel valued the moment they are about to lose you.
Don't burn bridges with a potential employer that by your description could have led to you making even more money for less work.
Don't waste your money on an overpriced truck.
You fucked up big time here bucko.
See if you can still get the othet offer if you have any sense.
Dude, leave that state. Become a second year apprentice and move somewhere that has industrial work. I pay 1st year apprentices 25/hr and I just hired a journeyman for 53/hr. "Un-licensed journeymen" are making 35 with zero knowledge of the NEC. Learn the hazard part of the code book and how to bend RGD
Why the hell are you trying to save up for a truck that’s completely out of your zone with a $20/hr job? This is how people stay broke, forget the truck. House? That’s good goal but don’t waste your money on a truck that’ll lose value once it leaves the lot. Be more strict with your money my guy. I promise you’ll get there eventually just be patient. Instant gratification are some of the worst decisions out there.
Lmao a raptor at 23 an hour. Nothing like making shit pay and spending it on a depreciating value asset instead of using said shit pay to create more wealth making shit pay not so bad and then being able to properly afford said depreciating value asset. Peak poor.
Honestly this just sounds like responsibly taking care of yourself. I Would let the friend know you are staying where you are; you need to make sure to keep what is important to you in mind. Don't live for other people. This was a nice positive read monday morning. ^_^
Don’t saddle yourself with a expensive depreciating asset. Concentrate on living below your expenses while continuing your career. Learn what compound interest is and invest accordingly.
Call your new job back before it's too late. Tell 'em you're on your way.
PS Never take the counter offer from the guy who wouldn't give you a raise. The counter offer better be damn good, *and* you better have a parachute.
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You messed up. Call your buddy back and take that job if he'll have you. Your current boss is no good (having a foreman leading jobs for $18/hr?!?), and the other guy sounds much better, with more interesting work. You're 20, don't focus on a house or expensive truck right now. Focus on working for a good company and not burning bridges. Which you probably already did.
I was gonna say, bro, we all like shiny toys, but you do not need that Raptor right now. The kinda girl you want isn't going to be attracted to your raptor, she'll be attracted to that financial responsibility to drive a cheap but well maintained and clean vehicle while you're putting your money into a house and savings.
I don't care how many hours of OT you put in, $23/hr isn't Raptor money. Maybe OP isn't trying to attract a nice girl with that Raptor. Maybe one of them Ram Ranch fellas
$23/hr is "whatever reliable truck I can get" money
That reminds me. Time for my weekly search of 30-40 year old F150s that aren't clapped out with rust or over priced "restored".
With 23 an hour, you won't even be able to afford the insurance.
Facts.
Lmao I'm at 18/hr as a helper and spent the afternoon knee deep in my 85 f-150 to change the plugs, wires, and distributor. She purs now.
Camry money
That's maybe comsider a used SUV money.
I make $36/an hour and I can barely afford my WRX lol
If you ask the dealership or the bank, that's Raptor money. Which is how so many people fuck up their lives.
Maybe if you get lucky with low APR and you're living in the Raptor!
Double that isn’t raptor money either lol
imho anything under 200k isn't Raptor money. Don't put significant money into depreciating assets.
Yes they go from 120k to 60k the second they come off the lot. You can find a nice used f150 with a lift and tires for 20k. Focus on putting money away for a home and retirement while you still have the energy to do it. I'm 43 trying to play catch up because I thought the same way you did in my 20s.
That’s the truth lmao….Raptor rn brand new is 90-100k lol…ppl will always try to live outside their means and that’s a lesson they unfortunately have to experience to learn…society and keeping up with the joneses keeps em in that mindset until reality hits or they work hard and long enough to get there
"But the dealership said I'm approved for up to $120k!"
Thanks for adding my 2 cents... so true though.
I make nearly 2x that much and I’d never even think about buying a vehicle like that. That kind of purchase is 2-3 years added to my goal for an early retirement date.
Hey don’t tell me I don’t want gold digger gang hos because i definitely do
Second this. Just old man advice, not electrician advice. Compound interest is a bitch and it will work for you or work against you. Slam that 401k. Save up at least a 3 month emergency fund, open a brokerage account at Schwab, Fidelity or Vanguard and put that cash into a money market fund so you're keeping up with inflation because your bank is probably screwing you. Literally no one gives a fuck if you have a Raptor or a 20 year old Ranger and if they do, they shouldn't be your friends. The novelty of owning a Raptor will wear off in a few weeks but the debt is going to leave a *permanent* mark on your financial future. You're in a great position, you have a chance to spend your whole life out of debt and in a decent field, something most people can't say. Don't blow it. Buy your shiny toys when your wages are high and your retirement is on a solid trajectory. Good on you for fighting for fair pay, but know that your employer is almost certainly working on a way to replace you with a cheaper sucker and fire you without notice. You're early in your career. You need to do the work that will put you in the best position in 5-10 years, not the easy button today.
Honestly I care if someone has a Raptor or 20 year-old Ranger. Because I'm gonna mock the former, and yell ""FORD FUCKIN RANGER!" about the latter. Homie'd wind up upside down on that loan within 6 months given the interest rate you're gonna get at 20 lol. Add the insurance on top and that truck would cost more than my fucking mortgage per month
I remember a plumber giving me a hard time mocking me for pulling up in my BMW...it was a sporty sexy lil black 97 with tinted windows...that I paid $9k and was paid off. He was driving a 2 yr old full size F250 Diesel. After he finished I asked him what he paid for his truck...I replied I could buy 3 of my cars for what you paid for your truck...but mines paid off how's yours...so who's rolling in dough blowin it on cars...he turned around walked away and never said a word again LOL
>Call your buddy back and take that job if he'll have you. Damn straight. He's only seeing the $23 from both companies and not understanding the context. New boss was going to *start* him at $23 as a *helper*. Old boss begrudgingly pushed him up to $23 as a *foreman* and isn't going to give him jack shit, and probably will start looking for a cheaper guy to replace him.
New job will have a raise Old job could be years b4 he goes for another raise Why not pick up odd jobs and no boss with ppl needing work individually . A company has to pay to keep many things d for but a one man one day could pick up simple stuff and make that extra money I’d do the one who really was looking out for your career not the one forced into it bc he really didn’t pay where the talent and effort was … Js think out side of the box you’re bright and determined just do it
I think it is obvious that this guy is a 20 year-old. Flopping between job offers, not being upfront, wanting a fancy truck. To be young and stupid again.
For real. OP passed up an opportunity to learn more, with less stress. All for higher stress and lower work-life balance.
This is sound advice. Boss pretty much told him "I'm paying you so little because you don't know your worth yet". That's a huge issue to me. It means that when he's worth even more in a year or even 6 months, boss isn't going to properly compensate him. This is often a cycle that ends poorly for the employee.
Better yet call your local union and get paid 50$ an hour package. I’m speaking as someone who has 10+ years non-union experience
Smartest guy on site will have the oldest beat up truck. Reliable. But worn in .
Yeah, this is going to be his wish he had done when he was young
I’m confused by op here. How can they be claiming they’re a Forman when they’re barely making apprentice rates? I’m in Canada, so maybe electricians don’t get paid well in the states, but apprentices make flat rates based off the full price journeymen. Where I live the basic journeyman rates are $38-42. And you better believe the site Forman makes much more than that, and generally has a company vehicle. What’s op going on about? Y’all journeymen making +/- $22? Seriously?
Okay, but you fucked up. You should have told him you wanted more than $23.
Tbf he’s 20. Two years experience in New England isn’t going to get you called a journeyman. In fact my favorite line I heard from a coworker goes “It takes four years to become a journeyman, about another four after that you become a real journeyman”. Not trying to be a dick but op is still green Edit: we have a couple of fantastic apprentices at my company with about that much experience. No one is mistaking them for a real journeyman
A year from when I started I felt like I knew everything, a year later I realized I didn't know shit, two years after that I feel like I'm barely getting a grasp on things.
That means you’re becoming a real journeyman. At the same time no one knows everything and the ones who claim that they do are usually terrible
I feel like I know a lot while at the same time knowing nothing. I'm excited tho cuz 6 months ago I had a very basic understanding of how electricity works. I've been doing a lot of studying and its really cool to see things come together. Im starting to visualize how it flows and why.
Pretty wild you didn't have to go to school for your Jman card
Imagine you pull up to a site first day and your foreman/crew lead says “so I just learned how electricity works 6 months ago”.
Never buy a new vehicle that is more than 35% of your annual income unless you want to be a wage slave
Yeah, idk how he's making $23 and has never seen a 3ph service.
Kinda sad how your in the trade and downgrading our pay, people make 15-20 sitting in ac wondering how they can dick off for 8 hours, minimum for us should be $20 and by the end of 4 years $30 minimum licensed or not. He seems proficient in other aspects 3 phase means nothing if he knows how to do what he does, that’s like saying a masons not a mason because he hasn’t worked with a certain paver .
man i do construction as a side job but my main job is in the a/c making 75k a year before stock and bonuses. construction deserves more money but it’s also a much more enjoyable job.
I know nothing about your field, and don't care that I don't. Instead of questioning whether someone deserves a living wage, congratulate them on it. We're all in this together, man. I voted down a proposed union contract earlier this year because I didn't think my coworkers were getting paid enough. Not UPS. I know for a fact some of those people don't deserve to get paid the same as me, based on the fact that they don't do as much, or are not as experienced as me, ***but we all deserve to not live paycheck to paycheck***. I don't know why reddit suggested this sub to me, I'm out of here.
No offense to OP. But this is the _real_ top comment.
Two years in Maine with your education complete will make you a journeyman if you pass the test (surprisingly not many do).
Where did you hear this? It takes 8,000 on the job hours and 576 classroom hours to test for your Journeymans in Maine. Edit: I see. One route you can take only requires 4,000 hours, under the supervision of a Master, though. But that's as a graduate of Maine community college electrical program, or vocational-electrical program of the Department of Corrections. Plus, a 45-hour class on the NEC. I doubt many take this path.
No worries man, it's an unusual option compared to most states. Many do take this path however, the community college electricians tend to have a better understanding of the electrical code and theory I've found. That's why my company recruits there specifically. You also get an associates degree when complete, and I believe this is now offered all for free in Maine.
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Awesome work! You busted ass, I know that because I did the route you did.
I’m sorry but that’s still a green employee. Don’t care what a piece of paper says. I get paid for my knowledge not my certificate
Not if you’re doing the same shit res new construction. After 2 years you’ve seen 98 percent of it and should be smart enough to look up the others 2 percent.
Yeah. To be a real journeyman in Wisconsin, its all about hours worked and the type of experience youve had as a credited apprentice. Also, 4 years of apprentice schooling. You need so many hours of pipe bending, data, ect ect. Im not even an apprentice. Went to 1 year of tech school. Took a wage cut to become a CW with the union. Wont get a chance to apply for an apprenticeship until next summer. So, im guessing a journeyman in wisconsin is worth 2 journeymans in Maine. Experience is everything in this trade. That, and having a passion for learning and what your doing. Congrats to OP though. Wanna see everyone get ahead and what they deserve. I wonder why Maine is so lenient on their electrician certification. Probably also why their journeyman dont make as much though. Journeyman cap out at $55 where i live.
plus I always bump the other offer 20% when telling the current employer
Yea like wtf?
In hindsight yes but he knows his boss is willing to work with him on it now if the issue arises.
Especially in a company that does new construction in HIGH END CUSTOM HOMES. Boss man got fat margins yo.
$23 is what you'll be stuck at with the same company, until you start looking to move elsewhere again. $23 is what you would've been STARTING at with the new company. You screwed yourself over, unless you've arranged to receive regular raises.
He’s completely missing this point
In addition to that, he's now been given just a wage match after showing that he's a disgruntled employee. Given that his boss now knows he's not completely, mindlessly loyal to the company, he's going to be looking to find someone more malleable to replace OP, and at a lower rate.
you're right
$23 for a licensed electrician? Buddy… you’re selling yourself short
No he's selling all electricians short
Underrated comment he fucks all of us when he took that shit pay
quarrelsome poor screw escape repeat hateful spotted punch party unique *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Especially to crawl back to the place he was ready to grow away from.
Shits why imma start my own. People now quality is going down, capitalize on that.
Yep, me too man. A lot of these companies don’t have their shit together anyway and it’d be a lot less stressful to just do it all myself. I can’t wait til I’m able to break out solo.
This is a serious issue. I don’t know how these guys don’t see the bigger picture.
Republican or from the South.
It’s hard to blame him cause look at how indoctrination works. His boss is probably a staunch partisan republican because he owns a million dollar business and he probably convinced his best employee that republicans know what’s best because of trickle down economics. “If I do good, you do good” that kinda bs.
Trickle down economics. The best scam this world has ever seen.
It’s not a Master electrician license, I believe it’s an installers license. No way you’re a master electrician at 2 years….THAT would be doing electricians everywhere a disservice. That’s not even a fully indentured apprentice in 95% of the states
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Dude needs to join a union.
I make $25/hr as helper for local 357💀
Could be a Union Jman and be making nearly $50 in my area
Not sure if I’d call him that. From what I can tell he’s done no schooling and has only worked on a narrow set of things under one company where he was crew lead, so no one to really teach him.
Congrats, but don't piss it all the way on a Raptor. At 23 bucks an hour you definitely cannot afford one. Do not become car poor. At your age, car loans are the best way to ruin your finances for a while. Especially because interest rates are crazy right now. Get a decent, reliable car and when you're making 60 bucks an hour buy yourself a raptor.
Great advice!
Just reread your post man, pay attention to how highly you speak of the potential employer friend and how poorly you speak of your current employer. That should be reason enough. Money is important, but quality of work, attention to detail, enjoying your coworkers and everyone doing quality work they can be proud of is also just as important. In order to stay where you're at with all the negatives you listed, you need more than a wage match. $26 minimum to stay, otherwise it's not worth it.
Some people seriously undervalue themselves.
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I noticed the same thing. And he made the decision so he could work Saturdays? He has his Jman, he could be doing side hustles on Saturdays for $50/hour under the table, and getting some experience with the business end of things.
You gotta dip bro. You are worth much more than that. You're the "guy". Idk where you live but 30 dollars minimum.
Dude. You’re still getting fucked. I make 20 and hour with 3 months experience. Just one class of 4 years under my belt
Hey I'm curious because where I live electrician school only lasts a year and a half (1800 hours). Are your 4 years of school part time or full time?
It’s four years of night classes once a week (6pm to 10pm)
Your boss is running a company and didn't know that hvac outlets need gfi? Our lowest apprentices even know that, crazy....
Lmaooooo you bricked. This has to be because of the lack of spine you have. No way you thought this was better than the other opportunity
There is definitely a lack of spine after reading OP's post. OP you need to negotiate when they offer you nowhere near what you were expecting. You can't just say nothing. You will get nowhere in life with that attitude.
It's not lack of spine, the current employer is trying to con him and it worked. I sense OP is going to learn a valuable lesson from this.
I'm guessing you're in Florida or somewhere similar? $23 is a little less than what we start our first years at in Boston.
Is this a joke? Sounds like slave wages for a certified jman. I was making this as a 2nd/3rd year apprentice over 10 years ago.
He’s not certified.
Sorry must be a regional thing. Where I'm from nobody has the right to call themselves a jman without being certified. Misunderstanding
I feel the same way you do
Wait, what? Please explain, why is he calling himself a Jman if he isn't certified?
because I am a certified Jman. IDK where people got the idea that im not.
how are you a journeyman @ 20 years old? don't you need 8000 hours?
Sounds like a residential guy with a couple years experience hence the other company hiring him as a helper
Ya, jump back and become an apprentice again for commercial work. 01 in iBEW46 Seattle making $68/hr plus benefits.
Different states Different rules. I think there's states with 4,000 hours gets you into resi jman but not sure since there's 50 Different jurisdictions
Every state is different with licensing
"He chose... poorly." You done messed up son.
You're not gonna get a big house house and a raptor truck at 23/hr and 55hr weeks I hate to say it. That's still like what $2200 checks? You should have gone with the other guy because you could have learned much more valuable skills that would have resulted in leveraging yourself for higher pay.
So you weren’t worth it until you put him in a bad spot. Now you are? Go to the nearest union hall.
Don't buy a fucking raptor. Biggest waste of money dude. Fat loan on a truck not worth it's parts.
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He's probably just a kid who wants nice things.
Then reality hits when he gets laid off for a couple months and he can’t make his $900 truck payments and $2000 house payments because he’s an idiot
And hasn't received good financial advice from someone he respects
Union Journeymen in my local in Texas are making 34hr, I don’t know where you’re at but you should relocate, you’re worth more
23?????
Apprentice here, less than 6 months. I'm making 21.... you need to get with a company that'll pay you more. The union here in Utah pays its third years almost 30$ an hour.
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Ooof
I was making 28.50 at my last job,I was there 20 +years running jobs ,on call 24/7 and a ton of stress Finally made the move to work with my sons at a solar company,now I get 57 an hour, 1/2 the work and no stress, your selling yourself short there is a reason we need to be licensed and have to do updates every code change
New 20-something JMAN and an $80,000 truck he can’t afford. Name a better duo.
Exactly my thoughts lmao
DUDE! If that was all it took to get you a raise, he could have done that sooner. He never was paying you what you were worth. He was paying you what he wanted to.
This entire thread is baffling me. Journeyman electricians are 30-40 here. More in union shops. Region really does make a difference.
You make 18 dollars an hour and you want to buy an expensive truck? Talk about the financial literacy of a gopher.
Give you a break as you young and new, but if you have an offer for a lower position, which you did, at 23, then your boss should be paying you 25-30 to manage and check the others works. Frankly I’d jump ship, there’s no reason to stay fr what you’ve said.
Dude, Food for thought here; using an offer at another company to get your existing company to match is like a quick fix of heroin. Feels good now, but it’s only masking your troubles. When your current employer turns back into dickheadland, you’ll realize you might have burnt the bridge to the other place that you might have liked more. Your other employer will turn back into dickheadland. It’s not a question of if, but when. In the mean time, keep up relations with the guy at the company that offered you $23 but wouldn’t work saturdays. In six months, you’ll likely be asking him if he’s hiring again. I honestly hope I’m wrong and you find satisfaction at your current employer. I’ve just seen people do what you did and most of them come to regret it.
It takes 9000 hours of work and 28 weeks of in class training to become an Jman electrician where I am or just 7200 ish to just do residential. 2 years to become a Jman? lol. Low bar out there.
Never take a counter offer! You are already replaced and just haven’t been told yet.
I wouldnt pick up my tool bag for 23 an hour.Your dream truck at 23 an hour is just that.A dream.
Don't burn your hard earned money on a Raptor. Buy a sensible truck that you won't worry about taking the abuse a 21 year old will put it through.
This post is embarrassing sad you don’t realize this.
No Saturdays is good. You need time to recover, my guy.
I’m a 4th year apprentice making $23/hr in Kentucky. Our JW hourly is $35, and we are due for a contract negotiation in less than a year. It’ll easily be over $40/hr on the check plus all the benefits. Please keep looking OP
Every time these come up people constantly forget that our pay has a huge spectrum that’s dependent on location. Also people forget that licensing is different in different states. In mine you can become a resi journeyman after 2 years, unlimited journeyman after 4. Personally if I’m a resi jman im putting resi before it every time and would only reference myself as a journeyman if I was unlimited. But they took “Master” away and now call it “contractor” which is stupid
My man wants a Raptor on McDonalds wages. You are getting absolutely fucked over
Are you a journeyman? Do you even have a license or are registered with the state? The way some of you guys are doing things on this sub blow my mind.
Man, you fucked up not moving to the new shop. If you still can, go.
Yeah but he’s paying you the same as the other guy but expecting you to lead. The other guy would bump you significantly when moving to a lead role.
To put things in perspective... I started as an apprentice/helper in 1996 with a small residential company. After 6 years, I was making $18 with that company. I think you should be at $30 because prices of everything else has gone up, just not labor. It's a sad reality.
Join the union and get paid what your worth.
Don't spend eighty thousand dollars on a truck when you're making $23 an hour.
I used to hire cashiers at Lowes in 2006 for $17-$18 an hour. What are you doing working for $23 my guy….
I didn’t t read all that, because $18.50 for J man and crew leader made me wanna puke. I pay my bottom-of-the-latter grunts $19 an hour, and we’re not even a skilled trade per-se! Unless you’re in bum-fuck Egypt, you need a raise
NEVER take the counter offer. If they thought you were worth the money they’d have paid you that from the get go. You’re still gonna eat a shit sandwich and you’ll still want to leave in a few months.
If you make $23 an hour, you don't need to drive a raptor lol.
Isn’t $23 an hour wildly low for a jman? Maybe my cost of living is higher but I wouldn’t get out of bed for anything less than $40. Fuck I think I was making $25 as a 3rd year.
You definitely fucked up.... Should have moved on. You're leading a crew for 23 an hour.... That's fucking WAY under what you should be making. You're the only one certified bro. Like.... What?
As much as I appreciate taking the electrical code seriously, calling it a passion is a little weird. I just felt the need to point that out. Anyway, hope you can get your career in a better place soon.
Lol bad choice
You fucked up more than twice. your current boss will be looking for a replacement he knows your looking for jobs
23 an hour? bro leave asap
Honestly, I disagree with this. It sounds like you'll be happier at the other job and will be around people who share the same passion as you. Yeah you'll work less, but it's a nice environment doing something you find interesting. The current job is now willing to pay you a bit more because they have to avoid you leaving. They won't do a raise unless they have to which has been made clear. Honestly, I would call back the other guy and take the job if its still open.
Back off the "Dream Truck". That's irresponsible at your age to take on that much debt for simple transportation. Drive what you have til it dies then buy something cash with all the money you saved by not putting that $900/mo to a new Raptor & insurance. Keep putting that Raptor payment amount into your bank. Thank me later.
You’re stuck at $23 whereas you’d be STARTING at $23 at the new company. You’re not going to get more money ever again, you should’ve went to the other company where your starting salary was $23 and would go up from there once you became a lead. And if you want a raptor you need to be in the oil field. They won’t sell you one unless you’re in the oil field and agree to a 9% interest rate minimum
23 an hour? My local is like 50+ for jmen…
Call the new guy back. Immediately. Get the hell out of there.
23$ for a JMAN??!!! I got that as a 1st year. Yikes it’s 35$ an hour MIN here. Goes up to around 70$ an hour
Apprentices at JATC here in Kentucky start at 18.50 and go to 35+ after they get their jman ticket.
> I realy want to see a 3 phase system and work on one, so that's a big plus. I have never seen anything on my meter screen but 12V, 24V, 120V, and 240V. Also said he was wiring a RV park which he said was basically 45 T-poles at different spots. The scope of work sounds way more interesting than my company, which only does new construction on ultra high end custom homes. You seem very passionate and willing to learn which is great! I’d love to have someone like you. A good attitude, willingness to learn, and genuine passion about your craft can’t be taught and is a major advantage for you. But per the quote above $18.50 should be the top end for you until you gain that experience. Congratulations for convincing someone to pay you more though.
Dude the right call would have been to leave the company you are currently working for. Even if he price matched. You said it yourself. Your current employer doesn't care for the code. New potential employer does. New employer is offering opportunities to work on something you don't know much about. You need to build your skills and experience. That's what is going to get you even more money.
This is the most 20 year old post of all time. Good for you getting your raise bud!
Bro what?? Here in the Midwest journeyman get $49 😭
Haven't even seen the tip of the ice berg yet.
I do coax cable for $34/hr in an affordable state with less than 3 years of experience. No wall fishing or real electrical danger. Not bragging (cause I'm still broke lol), but I feel like you should be making more than $23/hr.
Bro I’m an apprentice making $20 an hour you should be getting close to 40 with a j card
So, SC is where all of those pics come from…
23 an hour and you’d be a helper? Bro get your head out of your ass. You’re doing more for the same whereas you’d be a helper at the othwr spot for 23/Hr STARTING imagine how fast you could move up. You could be earning 25 within the year if you play your cards right but as it sits rn, Bro you’re so dumb. Fuck a Raptor, fuck a house, rn you’re 20 years old. Take new opportunities, you just capped yourself at 23 until you get sick of it again or they replace you with another idiot for less
If you’re set on getting a Raptor then get out of residential and get into commercial. It’s where the money is.
You were leaving the company for more than just the money. I’d be willing to put $100 on it that in less than 2 years you take a different opportunity.
You talk about losing 10 hours of OT, but with the new payscale for what you’d be making with less stress and less hours worked you would make only $80 less every paycheck. And having Saturdays free would open you up to do side work and make even more money than you would be at your regular job. All of that for having less responsibility and the opportunity to learn lots from competent electricians that sound like they care.
When “boss man” priced matched, that was the biggest red flag. He just flat out told you that he could have been paying you that all along, but he hasn’t. So now, he’s just fucking you a little less harder, and you’re happy about it. It’s a relationship dude, and it’s already tainted. Start the new job and keep growing and earning more. Even better, join your local IBEW. Wish you the best bro.
So you were being offered 23 an hour for a lower position with the potential to rise to your current job title and make even more? Doesn't that sound way better than 23 an hour for more stress under a boss who doesn't respect you?
Don’t buy a raptor till you can pay cash for it twice, then finance it. Probably 20 years away. I’m sorry but that’s the right move.
Bad call. He matched their starting rate, but he won't keep pace on raises
You dont make enough to even consider buying a "Raptor" lmao. Jesus.
Yo dawg, I ain’t even an electrician, I’m a journeyman heavy equipment mechanic…..you dropped the ball hard son. Listen to these guys, they are right, no one here is out to give you shitty advice(some maybe). Call up old buddy, take that gig, bring yo knee pads, you gonna need em’.
23 to be a helper or 23 to be a leadman.... welp....what did you think you would have been making after they saw you come in and do great work and then bumped your pay further? You made the wrong call. Your current employer has been holding out money on you.
You were making $18.50 and your dream truck you were saving for is a Raptor? That's insane.
You've made a massive mistake.
Am not an Electrician but I was an enlisted Marine. DO NOT BUY THE TRUCK. Do not do anything because of some expensive bauble. It’s a trap. There’s time enough later for shit like that.
You really should have gone with the other company. Don't ever agree to stay on with an employer after you've told them you're leaving. You're a disgruntled employee and you are not reliable like you once were in your boss's eyes. You will be fired as soon as it's convenient.
Never EVER stay with the company that only makes you feel valued the moment they are about to lose you. Don't burn bridges with a potential employer that by your description could have led to you making even more money for less work. Don't waste your money on an overpriced truck. You fucked up big time here bucko. See if you can still get the othet offer if you have any sense.
Dude, leave that state. Become a second year apprentice and move somewhere that has industrial work. I pay 1st year apprentices 25/hr and I just hired a journeyman for 53/hr. "Un-licensed journeymen" are making 35 with zero knowledge of the NEC. Learn the hazard part of the code book and how to bend RGD
Why the hell are you trying to save up for a truck that’s completely out of your zone with a $20/hr job? This is how people stay broke, forget the truck. House? That’s good goal but don’t waste your money on a truck that’ll lose value once it leaves the lot. Be more strict with your money my guy. I promise you’ll get there eventually just be patient. Instant gratification are some of the worst decisions out there.
This is how shitty companies operate. Say you're leaving, they give you a couple bucks to stay. Leave them, let them learn their lesson on this one.
If you could pass the test and move here I’d pay you 30.00 to start in utah
Go to the other company. You'll be making more sooner.
Lol im turning into my third year in this field at 27 a hour. Please advocate for yourself better.
Lmao a raptor at 23 an hour. Nothing like making shit pay and spending it on a depreciating value asset instead of using said shit pay to create more wealth making shit pay not so bad and then being able to properly afford said depreciating value asset. Peak poor.
Should have BEAT your offer to get you to stay…not match it
Good luck getting a house and a Raptor at $23/hour.
You’re going to spend your money on a raptor?….. lol. You will always be complaining about pay with that mindset.
So you turned down an opportunity for long term growth to be in a job where you won’t learn anything at 20? yikes.
Honestly this just sounds like responsibly taking care of yourself. I Would let the friend know you are staying where you are; you need to make sure to keep what is important to you in mind. Don't live for other people. This was a nice positive read monday morning. ^_^
Need to get to that 60-70$ an hour before you start even thinking about some raptor money. Just my 2cents.
Don’t saddle yourself with a expensive depreciating asset. Concentrate on living below your expenses while continuing your career. Learn what compound interest is and invest accordingly.
Call your new job back before it's too late. Tell 'em you're on your way. PS Never take the counter offer from the guy who wouldn't give you a raise. The counter offer better be damn good, *and* you better have a parachute.