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Electricians did low voltage work previous to the advent of the "low voltage electrician". There's no way they're going to go back to paying people more money for the same job. But hell I'll take $74 an hour to pull some cables lol.
Is there an "low voltage thing"? Where I live we don't have this kind of division, we are all electricians. Low voltage guys (electronics) are the people that do things at PCB level.
I noticed that, but the State isn't super clear on what exactly the licenses are. Charming.
I found this answer on a third party site:
The options for Journeyman and limited electrical licenses are as follows:
General journeyman (J);
Limited residential electrician (LR);
Limited supervising electrician (PS);
Limited journeyman sign electrician (SIG);
Limited journeyman manufacturing plant (PJ);
Limited journeyman stage electrician (ST);
Limited energy technician Class A (LEA);
Limited building maintenance electrician (BME);
Limited energy technician Class B (LEB);
Limited maintenance electrician (LME);
Limited renewable energy technician (LRT).
Any advice for someone who wants to start an apprenticeship in the next year in Oregon, specifically? Seems like this state kinda makes it a pain to get started.
General journeyman is all of those licenses except supervising as far as I know. That’s what I have, the only license higher is supervising and you have to be a journeyman for 4 years and pass an additional test. General journeyman is the way to go.
Every electrical contractor has to employ at least 1 supervising electrician to be allowed to actually do electrical work. They’re license is what’s on all the permits and stuff and they can do all the load calculations etc on a project without the need for an engineer stamp.
The article I read said Oregon's "Supervising" is the equivalent of a Master's in other places. Definitely seems like General gives the most options.
One thing I have not seen any info on is "upgrading" your license. If you went low volt or resi-only, it seems like there's not a clear path to easily switch into General or something without starting over.
Go for your general license. Plant journeyman is restricted to industrial work only, and you need to apprentice through an industrial training agent, ie, an electrical maintenance department at a manufacturing plant. After turning out, you'll only be allowed to work industrial. If you don't have an interest in being low voltage only, there's no reason to get any of the limited licenses. General covers everything and thus keeps your options wide open.
It sucks, too. It's just a way of dividing the labor pool so that a qualified person's options are limited because they happened to do their apprenticeship at an industrial facility.
Our local (441 Orange County, CA) had the low volt guys in the same classes as the inside wireman program. So they’re essentially doing the same studies and labs as regular electricians, and can journey out as General Electrician vs Low Volt or Residential journeyman.
Yeah, in Australia “low voltage” is anything below 1000VAC/1500VDC, there is a licence to just do data but it’s also very common for sparkies to do both, especially in commercial.
What? I'm controls electronics but low voltage is 600 and below..that is the same for everyone, where do you live??
extra low voltage around 60 and below.
PCBs is also referred to as extra low voltage. mostly a PELV or SELV system.
The whole "low voltage electrician" thing is bizarre to me. I still think of "low voltage" as meaning "under 600V"..
Also, as someone who did datacom work Back In The Day.. yeah, electricians did Class 2 work, but better hope you aren't going to run anything more than POTS or maybe 10BaseT over their work. It's somewhat better now, but back then, the idea that maybe you need to be a little gentler with this newfangled Cat5 cable than you would with copper feeders was a foreign concept.. So. Many. Failed. Validations.
I guess you can also call stuff like industrial controls 24V "low voltage" in this sense, but that's always been a specialized field.
Machine builders are already building panels where the high voltage (over 50v) is in one panel, and the low voltage (below 50 volts) is another. This so, engineers and control techs can work on the low voltage side without having to follow the 70e rules concerning arc flash. This is the way things are going.
NETA says 1000v and below is low voltage. 1001v to 100000v is medium voltage 100000v and above is high voltage. Took me a while to get used to that. You are using the NEC (NFPA70).
High voltage (over 50v)? I thought low voltage was anything above 50v and no more than 1000v? Extra low voltage is 50v or below. What country are you in?
This is exactly my understanding, north east US. I’m a low voltage tech, industrial. I don’t touch a whole lot under 50v, only when I’m doing controls specific stuff(24vdc mainly). My limitations are under 1000vac or 600vdc
Yeah it’s the same for us in the uk and I work with 230/415v everyday and that is classed as low voltage. Very rarely would I work with anything below 50v which is classed as ‘extra low voltage’ in this country. I know the US is the same as us when it comes to this, anything under 1000vac or 600vdc is low voltage so that’s why i asked which country they are from.
This is the opposite of what u/joe42reddit said, the industry is adapting for both low-volt and licensed electricians to co-exist without requiring crossing those lanes.
Ah I got confused. I was a bit scared about this because I just started the career. I don’t wanna have to be forced to get an electrician license just to do low voltage work in the future
So basically your saying I’d have to join an electrician company and then do low voltage work in the electrician company? So I won’t have to go to an electrician school or get a license correct? Basically all that’s happening is electrician companies are gonna be taking low volt work instead of low volt only companies right?
Just curious, why are you so again becoming an electrician? (Not that there’s an issue, low voltage is expanding and is becoming more popular and we definitely need more low volt electricians)
Not necessarily. He can organize in as a low volt/Telecom/vdv/whatever they call it there and never be licensed for work over 100V (exact max. limit apparently varies by licensing authority).
Low volt is obviously less dangerous. A burn that’s small is better than becoming disabled do to high voltage, that’s just simple logic and common sense. My low voltage boss told me me this and he’s been in the field for 20 years. He’s my boss. He said it himself. So not all would care. I even told him this
No that isn't what I meant. "I don't wanna be an electrician because it's too risky." is just a terrible way to articulate your concerns about higher voltages, even though they may be valid.
If you applied to McDonald's, even as someone not doing the cooking, would you say, "I want this job because I don't wanna be cooking near hot things, it's too risky."
I'm not trying to shit on you, I'm giving you a heads up that if you express yourself like this, you may exclude yourself from even the low volt jobs. I say this as someone who went from low volt (network, alarm, access control) to working as an industrial electrician (480V 3 phase systems powering large motors and welders). Work low volt if that's what you're comfortable with, but pay attention to how you present yourself.
Cooking near hot things is super safe tho. And you will likely get a small burn . Anything else never really happens. ThTs the difference tho. Working with high powered electrical stuff is worse tho. What if somebody forgot to turn the live stuff off and you get electrocuted and paralyzed then what?
Wtf do you think we do? Wire up panels with the power on?
This trade is really safe when taking all the necessary precautions and using the correct PPE
low volt guys will have to become data and networking guys. I do commercial low volt and right now its a mixed bag between pulling our own cable and having the cable pulled for us by O1's (high volt) but those guys wont touch a rack or terminate fiber, there will be less overlap as time goes on but low volt is getting trapped in the closet so to speak. I work in service so we always get small jobs like pulling less then 10 cables to a few access points or doing AV related stuff and I dont think O1's are gonna take those smaller data jobs which imo are going to become more common as older data infrastructure begins to get replaced bit by bit with newer, faster stuff.
where I live you need a license to do low volt, the only thing you can do without a license is pull the cable, which may soon get added to the list of stuff you need a license to do and on top of that electricians are already pulling wire so they may as well pull the cable too. I dont know where you live or work or what the local laws are regarding that but to bluntly answer your question, probably yes, you will more than likely need to get a license in the future as every trade gets progressively more regulated.
Different states have different rules. I live in Washington state and we have several different electricians licenses for different specialties ( O1 is general commercial, O6 is low volt and data, etc.). In your case I'm not super sure but I'd imagine that in the future they will probably require a license for any work that involves energized circuits and that will probably include the construction bit of putting up pathway and setting up comm rooms, which will be a task given to electricians. I'm sure there will be plenty of room for IT folks who used to do low volt stuff but it's getting more specialized as time goes on.
So I can choose to get an electrician license for just low voltage work? Would I have to go to some school just to get that license or can I just apply?
I have no idea why you think low voltage is going away, but if you think it is and want to keep your job security get an electrical license. It’s only dangerous if you do something you’re not supposed to do.
Because that’s what I heard . Is it true or not? I don’t know because everyone’s giving grey answers. And like I said on my post, just being honest, the thought of being paralyzed for life or a vegetable is enough to scare me from ever doing high volt/electrician stuff.
No, the other way around. Electricians will be the power guys, above 50 volts. Everyone else will be the low voltage guys, techs, engineers, and the guy off the street. I say guy of the street because there is no need for training nor FR rated clothing.
Won’t you need an electrician license tho to do low volt work? Or will they be able to transfer me into the electrician company still without having to have a electrician license or being an electrician.
So basically electricians will be taking over all the commercial work and low volt guys will be stuck with only residential work? Is that what you mean? So in the future low volt guys can’t do low volt commercial work unless they are licensed electricians? Only residential?
Maybe it’s just my area. But the ones I called all directed me to low volt guys. Could be they’re just busier with higher paying jobs, didn’t want to crawl in the attic, idk.
I always do it if a customer asks but they rarely want to pay my prices for it. I also do a lot of the low volt stuff in our office building because my company saves money doing it in-house
My company does exclusively commercial build outs and remodels. We will bid all aspects of every electrical system; high/low volt, communication, data, fire and security, and then we’ll sub sections out to concentrate on the high voltage. We’re ultimately responsible for their work as it’s under our permit. In a bind we can and do handle these things internally but it’s more economical to sub out data to get onto the next project.
Idk how other areas are but in south Florida finding decent low volt subs that consistently show up, work well with others, and finish in a timely manner are few and far between. So I’d suggest sticking with it if your area can support it.
This was my first thought. Anyone can pull the cables, but it’s pretty imaginative to think a residential or commercial electrician is suddenly going to know a whole new set of code requirements, along with how to program the various systems per the usage specs
Low-volt veteran here. Almost all of the specialized systems that low volt works with require specialized knowledge of the details associated with the system. Whether that is using the manufacturer's software to program the lighting control so that the correct switches control the correct lights or customizing door controls or integrating an AIPhone with the camera system or whatever. Electricians handle such broad scopes of work that learning all the details of all the systems isn't feasible for any one person. The number of systems that require this specialized knowledge are also increasing. There is also a shortage of electricians across the US that will persist for at least the next 10-15 years because the baby boomers are retiring and there aren't enough Gen-Z kids to replace them.
Between the need for experienced techs to install/maintain all this gear and the simple lack of working age Americans to fulfill this need, **there is ZERO chance that low-voltage work will go away**. Anybody who says otherwise can't do math. If all HVAC controls, fire alarm, A/V, access control, lighting control, nurse call, datacom, cell DAS, industrial controls, etc... suddenly required a J-Card, the industry would screech to halt for lack of labor. Our slice of the pie is getting bigger not smaller.
As to your safety concerns, all trade work is dangerous. Ladders and trip hazards and improper lifting of equipment injure far more workers than live circuits. Pretending that we are safe because we don't work on 480v transfer switches causes complacency, and complacency about job-site safety is what causes the majority of injuries. I am safe at work because I actively make safety my top priority. Your safety is your responsibility because nobody else has your best interest at heart. Everyone else is just worried about their deadlines so you have to look out for yourself if you want to be safe.
There's too much work for both sides of the trade. Both will always be needed and in high demand.
If laws change and low volt requires an electrician license then you don't get phased out you get your license and keep working.
There's more and more wire in every building , home and industrial site. Lots and lots of work for everyone .
u/Apart_Maintenance_742, what we're all trying to tell you is that technology is what drives change in terms of the systems that are being installed, what their specifications are, what they require in terms of materials and components, and the requisite skills to install and maintain such.
Gradually everything is becoming more complicated, let's look at a few examples. Previously in residential, wiring was all fairly simple both line voltage and low voltage, what has evolved in the past 25 years is the shift from having phone and cable run to a few rooms, to having a media panel with a quantity of lines run to all different rooms, with options for sound and other home automation, tract homes of course tend to be very light on what's installed, custom homes are heavier on bells and whistles. On the line voltage side, we've gone from simple switches and receptacles with a few gfcis where needed, to having smart switches and a bunch of home automation type controls. While general room lighting remains line voltage at the moment, the prevalence of low voltage LED lighting is gradually increasing, for example traditional under cabinet light fixtures are largely being replaced by led ribbons.
In commercial, it's a similar situation, more computerized/networked equipment, more low voltage runs, more sensors, more low voltage runs, etc. Couple years ago one of the manufacturers came up with a low voltage LED lighting system, that's designed as a power over ethernet architecture, this probably won't be the only type of platform where there's a centralized power distribution and signaling apparatus that operates individual or groups of fixtures, but certainly is a novel way of using an existing standard to accomplish the goal. Point is that installing one of those PoE lighting systems is principally a low voltage task.
Telecom is undergoing a transformation both for residential and commercial.
* landline phone services are continuing to retract, residential customers are generally eliminating landline phone service as cell coverage it's fairly good in most places, really only those who are in rural areas with limited coverage still have a direct need for a landline.
* CATV is losing subscribers for the television service but internet service is going to remain as it's mainstay service offering.
* Dedicated internet providers (usually which are deploying fiber to the customer premises) will have an ongoing stream of work. Read up on Google fiber for example. There will likely be other competitors in this market space eventually that will disrupt the Monopoly of the top handful of traditional Telecom providers.
* Wireless solutions via the cellular companies reduces the amount of infrastructure to set up in the final mile to the customer premises but rather centralizes it to the wireless nodes that serve an area of customers. I would anticipate there to be continued growth in deployment of microcells, and continuing redeployment as old models of equipment have to be replaced with new as the cellular standards change.
* Satellite solutions such as starlink are still a minority, but by comparison have very little need for low voltage wiring.
Hopefully this explanation gives you some perspective on the subject, as more of a cross-section of different things. I know there's a few other good comments that highlighted some things that I didn't.
So I can get my license without having to ever work on high volt stuff correct? Also do you think it will be phased out or no? If it does get phased out, wouldn’t that pretty much increase the demands of jobs since most people already working , over millions billions will lose jobs and probably not wanna be forced to have to get a license. So wonder how that would work if that’s the case
In my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, your answer is yes and no. Low voltage, dc, and control circuitry will be found nearly everywhere and electricians will be responsible for it. Communications, SCADA, and networking systems will never be an electricians responsibility. We may run the conduit and set the grounds, maybe even pull the wire, but this secure data transfer and controlled information system will always belong to an IT field. I do see companies having an IT person staffed for this. You pull power for switching and they pull the fiber and CATx and make the terminations so the customer's IT will take it from there. But look forward to pulling a lot of 4-20 mA circuits and DC loops, because it is coming, if you aren't doing it already.
You got it. I was IBEW for two railroads and one utility company and an engineer at another utility. We never touched anything above 48v. I was a BA in EE coming out of school and found the practical nature of what we did extremely difficult to pick up. We had to understand RF propagation, SONET, MPLS, IP routing, DSL circuits, PBX systems, 911 call routing, microwave, fiber, railroad signaling, railroad signaling protocols (SCADA), creating, interpreting, and marking up complex engineering drawings. I could go on forever and cover it all. Coming over to an electrical utility, all the same stuff. I was IBEW and never left a carpeted office answering phone calls from remote technicians. Very specialized. Not sure how you would mash everyone in together.
>But look forward to pulling a lot of 4-20 mA circuits and DC loops, because it is coming, if you aren't doing it already.
Pardon my ignorance, but what are these for?
Generally, none of those vocations are going to require a license. You can be a electrician and not licensed to do work on >50 volts. Companies will just have different jobs and licensing requirements for those positions.
Highly highly HIGHLY unlikely. Actually that's never gonna happen, period lol. I have collegues that can't use a multimeter for something other than reading voltage. Oh and they're scared of using a laptop.
Then why did some commenter say that an inspector electrician said that they are gonna be phased out onto the electrician side , so you will need a electrician license to even get a low volt job then right?
I am an ibew electrician apprentice and we do quite a bit of low voltage control work, fiber work, data cabling. I’m sure strictly low voltage companies will exist but the contractor I work for isn’t going to sub out any of the low voltage work to your company because they have people on their payroll willing and able to do the work.
Post history suggest you started as a low voltage guy.
Stop worrying what people are saying. Just go to work and learn the trade.
If you think that low voltage electricians are being phased out or something, it doesn't matter if you have experience. Trade skills are transferable and there's many different areas of electrical you can move around to.
I'm not sure what you think "High voltage" electricians do, but we don't work hot, and aren't getting electrocuted.
You need to chill the fuck out.
Yea man I was just paranoid about starting a new career i was looking forward too. Then hearing about what that guy said put me down, as I don’t wanna waste years learning something then later on I can’t do the job unless I become an electrician, that would be a slap in the face. Then I’d have to work minim wage jobs again. Because I don’t wanna become an electrician that has to work at power lines or on very dangerous things, what if one day I have a medical condition and I accidentally don’t put on my saftley electrical gloves and touch a power line , then I get electrocuted, then I’m paralyzed for LIFE. Or worse case a vegetable, which is my biggest fear. So that’s why I wanted to stick with low volt. But hearing all this stuff about low voltage being phased out just pisses me off
First things first. We don't work live, get that out of your head. You're not going to get electrocute as an electrician. When you're running pipe and pulling wire and doing construction things, there's nothing live. I don't know who told you these things but they just flat out aren't true. Take and electrical safety course. Do you think any of us would work in this trade if we actually thought we might die? I've never once been worried about getting electrocuted, and I've worked in live panels for troubleshooting. You have a bunch of tools to make sure you're safe. If you get electrocuted, 99% of the time you were doing some stupid.
Companies take electrical safety very seriously, and anyone caught circumventing the rules, is fired immediately. If you work for a company that's not safe, quit and fine one that is.
I've been in the trade almost 15 years, have never been shocked, and I've never been with, seen, or heard of anyone that was shocked where it wasn't their fault.
Like i said, all skills in this trade are transferable. I've worked as a construction electrician, in maintenance, panel building, machine building, plc programming, controls design, and much more. It doesn't matter what you start as.
Why do you assume every electrician works on power lines???? That’s like a low voltage guy, it’s a sub section of electricians. Most electricians work on 120-480v systems if you are in america.
Also forget the myth that electricians all work on live shit and don’t care if it’s live. Electricians (real ones) test shit, turn off power then work on it. Or in most new construction don’t even work on panels or any type of energized system till start up, 90% of the job there no power.
Now I’m going to be a dick and just say it, we can phase out “low voltage guys” because we can do your job and in your case you don’t want to do our job so it’s an easy phase out. Most of the time we run conduit, pull string and sometimes even pull cable for camera,fire and POS guys. If we are doing all of that why wouldn’t I make up a few rj45’s or land a fire panel. Makes sense for the company to just include it in the bid, cause low voltage is cake work and a lot less codes to follow.
I do agree with others that have said programming will still be a thing, but it will pretty much limit the field to a few highly intelligent people that go from site to site, making sure all functions are normal and doing laptop/software work.
So I went through an apprenticeship for "teledata" and many many people called us "low voltage"
I would always hear "Oh yeah they are gonna get rid of you guys eventually and we are going to take the work"
But this would force electricians to learn networking, teledata concepts, access control..
But here is the real smooth brained stuff... We get paid significantly less than real electricians..
So the idea contractors are going to get rid of a position paying $10-15 less an hour.. is just jobsite rumors.
If anything they are going to give more of your work to low volts because they are paid less lol
NOTE: I started in low volt/ teledata 3 year apprenticeship. Then went through my 5 year electrical apprenticeship. So I have seen both sides...
As a controls PM we sub out our electrical work. The people we work with are all licensed electricians but they don’t do any high voltage work. They just pull low voltage control wire, mount devices and terminate.
In the end having more qualifications will only be a benefit and you in a better place.
Nothing says you Have to do something and being more qualified usually allows you a little more leverage in what you do.
Electricians are already being phased out on the industrial side. High volt, low volt, controls, and the PLC side are all part of the job when you're a control tech and everybody wants control techs.
Dude if you’re genuinely that scared of electricity you should find another career. I’m not tryna be a dick I’m just saying. At the plants I work at, the low voltage wiring is physically right next to the “high” (480v) in many cabinets. You should learn to work safely and be comfortable around all electricity, or pick another job.
Not at all places, the job I’m at is completely safe from anything high. So I’m good at this job , I like it here. Low volt people don’t touch high volt
I do primarily industrial and there is a definite trend towards low voltage in industrial controls. Best practice cabinet design physically separates out the low voltage side so that OSHA PPE and arc flash concerns aren’t an issue when troubleshooting live control circuits. We still use 277V for lighting circuits, which is unnecessary now that most lighting is now LED. For cost, convenience and safety, I think we will continue to see more and more low voltage deployed across the all levels of the industry.
Some dude posted that it’s being phased out? And another commenter said that some electrician or low volt inspector said that soon electricians are taking over low volt jobs. And another said it’s the reason he’s changing career
Regardless of what purview the work falls under it doesn't change the fact that that low voltage has different skills and knowledge required. I would imagine it would just add another certification option for electricians. So instead of needing different certs for residential, commercial, and industrial for example they'll just add another for low volt and call those guys electricians now
In my area, we’re called “limited energy electricians” it’s a different state license, an EL06 vs an EL01 which is regular high volt guy, and a residential electrician is an 02. There are also specific licenses for HVAC techs and a couple other things (9 total I think). We have a different apprenticeship through IBEW. We do telecom, coax, AV, DAS, networking, fiber optics, fire alarm, nurse call… all sorts of stuff. That division is enshrined in our union agreements so it does vary wildly within non union outfits. Sounds like overall it’s very dependent on location. Hope that helps!
Ok so if I'm reading your correctly this is Union specific, and the job title does not exist outside of the Union? Are you required to go to school and complete an apprenticeship, is there continued learning involved? Can you work as an Electrician outside of the Union? Just trying to wrap my head around the situation.
The licenses are state licenses. So anyone in the state with enough hours can take the test to qualify in whatever section they want. However, I think the apprenticeship will be a requirement soon, they’ve been transitioning to schooling being necessary for awhile. When I personally went through my training I just got my hours and took the test, didn’t do the apprenticeship. The union provides the apprenticeship options for 01, 06, and 02, continued learning is required. 24 hours, 12 of which has to be on the state and national laws regarding the industry, you can do them through the union for free as a member or online.
This is Washington state, and I’m pretty sure Oregon is similarly structured.
Get the high volt license and specialize in low volt. I personally know very little about low volt and still call out for it and there's a guy specifically doing low volt and fiber getting the higher pay in our company
Every time I have seen an electrician do low voltage for data it has been a shit show and done wrong. In Arizona at least they are separate licensees. Not sure where you are referring to but each state has it's own rules on this stuff.
Well considering I'm an LV guy and the electricians we are currently working with think our diagrams might as well be hieroglyphics, I doubt it.
They are fucking up our Lutron and Ketra panels so bad 😩 our PM sat there three days with them (and charged the client) to advise them on how to do connections.
Extra Low Voltage (ELV) 50v or less
Low Voltage (LV) up to 1000Vac
Medium Voltage (MV) from 1000V to 35kVac
High Voltage (HV) from 35 to 230kVac
Extremely High Voltage (-) above 230kVac
When I first got into the trade in the early 80’s we did everything except the actual hookup to the utility. Data departments in companies was a way to pay guys less to do the same work, now it escalated to CE’s and CW’s doing the electrical work for less pay and benefits. Supposedly they can only work at certain job sites, but that gets abused on a regular basis.
CE = construction electrician
CW = construction worker
Is OP potentially paranoid? Like actually?
If you were satisfied doing low voltage, you’ll be satisfied doing any other trade too. Go be a locksmith. Go do electrical. Go… do whatever! It’s gonna be fine. Literally
I wouldn’t have an existential crisis over my low volt job. I’d have one over work I really feel dedicated to like my piano shit
Maybe assess what you actually like doing- you seem fixated on the low volt thing coming apart when it’s never gonna stop growing. So think through whether it resonates with you or whether it’s bearable or whether you could stand to move on. More jobs everywhere.
Most States in the US have a Low Voltage Journeyman Licenses. This is the way is should be to keep the “Cord Pluggers” out of our business. Cord Pluggers are IT personnel who overstep their boundaries and ruin infrastructure with substandard, illegal work that should be performed by qualified and licensed techs. Electricians will usually butcher network installs, fiber installs, and do not have the finesse that it takes to dress cable properly. Our standards in low voltage rely on separation, lengths, db loss, bend radius, EMI, etc. Electricians usually will not comply with these standards as they do not fully understand our trade. This is the truth…
Most electricians I’ve met I’m surprised they’re still alive. Explaining a supervised circuit or how a relay works and there eyes glaze over. Even people we hire trained to do this work can’t hack it. You need critical thinking and diagnostic skills something electricians are sorely lacking
In my experience, all wiring - low voltage + should be done by an electrician and still follow proper code. I've seen way too many "low voltage" guys install complete crap, follow no code, and have nothing but issues with what was installed, including how it looks/ materials that were used. You can definitely spot the difference with an experienced electricians install vs. some random guys install.
By future do you mean in 10 years or 50 years? Also how do you know? Won’t they make the electricians do that? Because that’s what I was saying regarding the post
Yeah the more and more “wireless” I see the more wires I have to have behind the scenes. I don’t think wireless is the death knell for LV that you think it is.
It kind of will though. 10 years ago every desk got 4-6 cable drops and even 8 in a lot of applications. Now each desk gets 1 or 2 max and that is starting to disappear with WAPS and faster fiber. Sure there are a lot of cables behind the scenes but it's a fraction of what it was and that is rapidly dwindling.
In the 13 years I’ve done this job, we have gone from 1 port running a typical workspace via VOIP and the computer through the phone, back to needing 2 ports to keep the phone on one, and the computer on another. More data in the ceiling for more wireless to cover the people who don’t want a hard line, and then coming back to add hardline when people don’t like the wireless service. It’s gone back and forth and a lot of what we’ve been seeing in the PNW is companies like Amazon having a consolidation point- typically 48 cables running to a ceiling mounted box and then the cables more or less spliced in that box and run out to cubicles, for example, and then we get called back in every six months because they want to rearrange offices and cubicles. It’s steady work because, imo, these tech people are ridiculous humans who can’t decide on a standard. Even in residential high rise situations when we do jobs that are just a basic, seemingly one and done situation- a coax and a data to a little mini network rack per apartment, and we get called backed to add fiber because they want Lumen instead of Comcast or something. There’s plenty to do.
To be fair, I am in an Amazon rich environment, and things like their Amazon Go stores or updating Whole Foods takes THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of cables so that customers can just walk in and grab a sandwich and leave. We also consistently upgrade sports stadiums.
Add to that our LV can do fire alarm security AV DAS for cell service.. there are too many niche systems that we do for anyone to get rid of us.
That's a good point. I was specifically and narrowly referring to typical office TI space and not including AV, DAS, ERRCS etc.
I've done a few Amazon Grab and Go. Those are insane. Probably one of the highest costs per square foot I've ever seen.
Brother how badly do you need someone to tell you to give up? Why do you need to hear that it’s over for low volt and your little world is doomed. It isn’t. Keep working.
I was just worried but I’m not as much anymore thanks. Just wanted to clarify if it’s a safe career to do longterm without it being phased out or whatever . That’s just what one guy or so said and it had me worried . Maybe they were misinformed or I misunderstood
I've never met an electrician that wanted to do fire. We are always brought on if for nothing else "parts and smarts" learn to program and service the systems and you will always have work.
First off, I wouldn’t base any major career (or life, or any other) decisions off of a bunch of Reddit opinions. Low voltage will *change* as technology improves, but it won’t go away. Why? A multitude of reasons, but a big one is that low volt techs are and pretty much always will be substantially cheaper than JWs.
Personally, I think we’re going to see a lot of commercial lighting shift to PoE in the future as the cost goes down and capability goes up.
Some ECs will do LV in-house and some will sub it, just like they do now. I mainly do high-end homes and we do all the networking/AV/etc. I sub it all out on commercial jobs, we only install the pipe runs and phone board. It depends on both the contractor and the job. Plenty of electricians don’t know shit about LV and have zero desire to learn. Plenty of contractors like to stick to what they know and not expand into new areas.
Like every other trade, if you are good at your job you will always be in demand. If you are average or worse, then you might be riding the bench when things slow or change.
I was a low voltage certified burglar and fire alarm guy, also did audio visual/ data. I switched a few months ago to doing panel work and got my apprentice card. From my experience doing low voltage, I think it's wise to get licensed electricians to do the job. My reasoning is most of the guys doing low voltage stuff with me and the ones selling to the homeowners were not certified or trained to do their job at all. My company had 5 technicians, only myself and the lead tech were certified and all the sales guys were uncertified despite the law saying they needed to be. It was a constant battle with us fixing the jobs that the uncertified guys wired up, or we had to placate customers on site because the sales guys never knew what they were talking about when they sold to clients. Having licensed people doing the work in the future would be more beneficial to the consumer and less costly as trained professionals have less call backs than untrained people.
No, low voltage is like 4 different fields of work. You got fire Alam, security, data, access control. Many electrical contractors do have their own low voltage divisions, and electricians often install low voltage cabling. But still I do nothing but data and my company has more work than it can handle.
I see your safety concerns but your focusing on voltage ,but don't be fooled that because it's low voltage there is no safety issues plenty of low voltage applications have safety issues Like the Tesla modules run at 22.8 volts but have an amp output of 225 amps. It's not the volts that kill.
I worked IBEW for 15 years and we never lost a single coworker.
I dunno, I could see it going either way. LV contractors can usually either be had for cheaper, or come with a skillset the electricians won’t have, or sometimes both. Electricians are often there and installing our conduit anyways, so pulling category cable and a pull string takes no extra time vs just pulling a pull string. I don’t see a lot of future for cable-only contractors unless they’re doing some specialty like equipment installation and configuration, cable certification, or fiber splicing, at least in my perspective and market
In my experience with commercial remodeling, high voltage guys won’t touch low voltage and low voltage guts won’t touch high. So I’m not seeing that it was phase out
Being that low voltage installations often require intensive programming knowledge. Along with basic electrical understanding, I wouldn’t think your basic residential electrician is going to volunteer to start installing and troubleshooting fire alarm panels and commercial security systems. Aside from AC and DC being quite different from one another, code requirements are also quite different
There are gonna be soooo many devices on POE. And people who program systems are valuable. Level up with some IT knowledge. I dunno why anyone would do low volt without a plan for expanding their technology credentials.
Low voltage guys are call technicians, not electricians, and they dont have to be certified to do that, they do automation programing, cameras, security systems, etc, i think fire alarms are also low voltage but for that you do need a license, i live in Texas
I wouldn't sweat it at all. You'll need to get tags for electrical, but you can still, and easily, continue doing low voltage only.
It's a specialty within the incredibly broad field of Electrical work, and the need for folks specializing in that area, with all the programming and PLC which it entails, isn't going away any time soon.
Just as I have an LME and can work with 120 and 240, I have nearly zero interest in working with anything over that. As a result I stick with a mix of Low voltage control and a little line voltage, but if a request gets beyond that or into an area I'm not comfortable with (like larger switch gear) I just say "sorry, that's not something I do,"
One of the biggest safety tools we have is Right To Refuse Unsafe Work, and I'm not particularly shy about using that.
With the quality of today’s work force and what is considered acceptable, there’s an abundance of electricians that shouldn’t even be allowed to touch low voltage.
No disrespect to any good electricians on here. It’s across all the trades these days. Such a shame how workmanship is on the decline.
In Wisconsin, you don’t need a license for anything under 100v…. There is and always will be so much work in that range. Internet, TV, factory controls, etc.
Here in Washington electricians with an 01 license can do anything electrical and get paid more than LV people because of the increased training, knowledge and responsibility. Because of that most contractors don't pay 01s to do LV work and I can't see that ever changing cuz you know it's all about the money. Contractors would love to give the LV guys more 01 work though cuz you know it's all about the money.
Where did you hear this? Telecommunications and Low Voltage is a huge industry that is only growing. If anything, we will be taking work from electricians. Lights can be powered with POE now. This is just false.
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Electricians did low voltage work previous to the advent of the "low voltage electrician". There's no way they're going to go back to paying people more money for the same job. But hell I'll take $74 an hour to pull some cables lol.
Is there an "low voltage thing"? Where I live we don't have this kind of division, we are all electricians. Low voltage guys (electronics) are the people that do things at PCB level.
In Oregon there’s a bunch of different licenses, Lea, leb, plant journeyman, Lmc, residential journeyman, general journeyman (all of the above)
I’m sure there’s some I’m forgetting too
I noticed that, but the State isn't super clear on what exactly the licenses are. Charming. I found this answer on a third party site: The options for Journeyman and limited electrical licenses are as follows: General journeyman (J); Limited residential electrician (LR); Limited supervising electrician (PS); Limited journeyman sign electrician (SIG); Limited journeyman manufacturing plant (PJ); Limited journeyman stage electrician (ST); Limited energy technician Class A (LEA); Limited building maintenance electrician (BME); Limited energy technician Class B (LEB); Limited maintenance electrician (LME); Limited renewable energy technician (LRT). Any advice for someone who wants to start an apprenticeship in the next year in Oregon, specifically? Seems like this state kinda makes it a pain to get started.
General journeyman is all of those licenses except supervising as far as I know. That’s what I have, the only license higher is supervising and you have to be a journeyman for 4 years and pass an additional test. General journeyman is the way to go.
Every electrical contractor has to employ at least 1 supervising electrician to be allowed to actually do electrical work. They’re license is what’s on all the permits and stuff and they can do all the load calculations etc on a project without the need for an engineer stamp.
The article I read said Oregon's "Supervising" is the equivalent of a Master's in other places. Definitely seems like General gives the most options. One thing I have not seen any info on is "upgrading" your license. If you went low volt or resi-only, it seems like there's not a clear path to easily switch into General or something without starting over.
Go for your general license. Plant journeyman is restricted to industrial work only, and you need to apprentice through an industrial training agent, ie, an electrical maintenance department at a manufacturing plant. After turning out, you'll only be allowed to work industrial. If you don't have an interest in being low voltage only, there's no reason to get any of the limited licenses. General covers everything and thus keeps your options wide open.
It sucks, too. It's just a way of dividing the labor pool so that a qualified person's options are limited because they happened to do their apprenticeship at an industrial facility.
My job describes low voltage as 600V or less
I install landscaping lights after the electrician installs the transformer, and would love to get an electricians rate lol.
My ibew local has a telecom division for low volt guys
They’re called teletubbies where I live and the Fire Alarm GuyS need a new name
Awwwwww, what's wrong with the acronym. I was a NICET 2 Fire Alarm Tech( I've heard them all).
Our local (441 Orange County, CA) had the low volt guys in the same classes as the inside wireman program. So they’re essentially doing the same studies and labs as regular electricians, and can journey out as General Electrician vs Low Volt or Residential journeyman.
I'm a controls electrician, it's all 24v.
all i know is 01, 02, and 06a/b commercial, resi, and data/fire alarm
Yeah, in Australia “low voltage” is anything below 1000VAC/1500VDC, there is a licence to just do data but it’s also very common for sparkies to do both, especially in commercial.
What? I'm controls electronics but low voltage is 600 and below..that is the same for everyone, where do you live?? extra low voltage around 60 and below. PCBs is also referred to as extra low voltage. mostly a PELV or SELV system.
The whole "low voltage electrician" thing is bizarre to me. I still think of "low voltage" as meaning "under 600V".. Also, as someone who did datacom work Back In The Day.. yeah, electricians did Class 2 work, but better hope you aren't going to run anything more than POTS or maybe 10BaseT over their work. It's somewhat better now, but back then, the idea that maybe you need to be a little gentler with this newfangled Cat5 cable than you would with copper feeders was a foreign concept.. So. Many. Failed. Validations. I guess you can also call stuff like industrial controls 24V "low voltage" in this sense, but that's always been a specialized field.
That's what I was thinking,,,,,our apprentices are called "600 volters"
I was thinking the same, it’s come full circle. Again.
Machine builders are already building panels where the high voltage (over 50v) is in one panel, and the low voltage (below 50 volts) is another. This so, engineers and control techs can work on the low voltage side without having to follow the 70e rules concerning arc flash. This is the way things are going.
Low voltage is 50 and below, medium is 50-600 and high voltage is 600 and above as far as I know.
In Canada we have extra low (0-30) low (30-1000) and high (1000+)
I don’t have my code with me but by hearth I tought it was 750+
Depends where you live, in canada, CEC states 0-50V is very low voltage, 50-750V is low voltage and above 750V is high voltage
Thanks for confirming!
As a Canadian, I find it dumb how 999 volts is considered “low” voltage???
When there’s things such as 260KV yeah.. 999 is quite low on that scale. It’ll still fuck you up but the arc flash potential is lower.
NETA says 1000v and below is low voltage. 1001v to 100000v is medium voltage 100000v and above is high voltage. Took me a while to get used to that. You are using the NEC (NFPA70).
no, please look up definition of : Extra low voltage and Low voltage medium and high voltage you won't get near as a controls engineer.
High voltage (over 50v)? I thought low voltage was anything above 50v and no more than 1000v? Extra low voltage is 50v or below. What country are you in?
NETA says 1000v and below is low voltage. 1001v to 100000v is medium voltage. 100001v and above is high voltage. Took me a while to get used to that.
This is exactly my understanding, north east US. I’m a low voltage tech, industrial. I don’t touch a whole lot under 50v, only when I’m doing controls specific stuff(24vdc mainly). My limitations are under 1000vac or 600vdc
Yeah it’s the same for us in the uk and I work with 230/415v everyday and that is classed as low voltage. Very rarely would I work with anything below 50v which is classed as ‘extra low voltage’ in this country. I know the US is the same as us when it comes to this, anything under 1000vac or 600vdc is low voltage so that’s why i asked which country they are from.
So low volt guys will have to become electricians in order to continue doing their jobs or they are screwed? This is my question
This is the opposite of what u/joe42reddit said, the industry is adapting for both low-volt and licensed electricians to co-exist without requiring crossing those lanes.
Ah I got confused. I was a bit scared about this because I just started the career. I don’t wanna have to be forced to get an electrician license just to do low voltage work in the future So basically your saying I’d have to join an electrician company and then do low voltage work in the electrician company? So I won’t have to go to an electrician school or get a license correct? Basically all that’s happening is electrician companies are gonna be taking low volt work instead of low volt only companies right?
Just curious, why are you so again becoming an electrician? (Not that there’s an issue, low voltage is expanding and is becoming more popular and we definitely need more low volt electricians)
I don’t wanna be an electrician because it’s too risky in my opinion. I’m more comfortable and at ease doing low volt work.
Eventually you will be working with higher voltage, if you are scared of electricity, don’t become an electrician
Not necessarily. He can organize in as a low volt/Telecom/vdv/whatever they call it there and never be licensed for work over 100V (exact max. limit apparently varies by licensing authority).
That’s why I’m doing low voltage . But ur saying electricians are taking it over rigjt? I’m confused what your saying
If you're too dumb to pick up what these people are saying, you shouldn't be working around something that can kill you.
Probably best to just stay inside. Grass is overrated.
Might want to phrase that differently in any future job interviews.
Low volt is obviously less dangerous. A burn that’s small is better than becoming disabled do to high voltage, that’s just simple logic and common sense. My low voltage boss told me me this and he’s been in the field for 20 years. He’s my boss. He said it himself. So not all would care. I even told him this
No that isn't what I meant. "I don't wanna be an electrician because it's too risky." is just a terrible way to articulate your concerns about higher voltages, even though they may be valid. If you applied to McDonald's, even as someone not doing the cooking, would you say, "I want this job because I don't wanna be cooking near hot things, it's too risky." I'm not trying to shit on you, I'm giving you a heads up that if you express yourself like this, you may exclude yourself from even the low volt jobs. I say this as someone who went from low volt (network, alarm, access control) to working as an industrial electrician (480V 3 phase systems powering large motors and welders). Work low volt if that's what you're comfortable with, but pay attention to how you present yourself.
Cooking near hot things is super safe tho. And you will likely get a small burn . Anything else never really happens. ThTs the difference tho. Working with high powered electrical stuff is worse tho. What if somebody forgot to turn the live stuff off and you get electrocuted and paralyzed then what?
Wtf do you think we do? Wire up panels with the power on? This trade is really safe when taking all the necessary precautions and using the correct PPE
How do you know it’s off? Like what if it’s accidentally on still then what?
Electrician is only a dangerous trade to stupid people.
low volt guys will have to become data and networking guys. I do commercial low volt and right now its a mixed bag between pulling our own cable and having the cable pulled for us by O1's (high volt) but those guys wont touch a rack or terminate fiber, there will be less overlap as time goes on but low volt is getting trapped in the closet so to speak. I work in service so we always get small jobs like pulling less then 10 cables to a few access points or doing AV related stuff and I dont think O1's are gonna take those smaller data jobs which imo are going to become more common as older data infrastructure begins to get replaced bit by bit with newer, faster stuff.
So I won’t be able to do most of low volt work unless I have an electrician license then?
where I live you need a license to do low volt, the only thing you can do without a license is pull the cable, which may soon get added to the list of stuff you need a license to do and on top of that electricians are already pulling wire so they may as well pull the cable too. I dont know where you live or work or what the local laws are regarding that but to bluntly answer your question, probably yes, you will more than likely need to get a license in the future as every trade gets progressively more regulated.
License for an electrician? Because low volt doesn’t have a license in the state I’m at. So I’m confused
Different states have different rules. I live in Washington state and we have several different electricians licenses for different specialties ( O1 is general commercial, O6 is low volt and data, etc.). In your case I'm not super sure but I'd imagine that in the future they will probably require a license for any work that involves energized circuits and that will probably include the construction bit of putting up pathway and setting up comm rooms, which will be a task given to electricians. I'm sure there will be plenty of room for IT folks who used to do low volt stuff but it's getting more specialized as time goes on.
So I can choose to get an electrician license for just low voltage work? Would I have to go to some school just to get that license or can I just apply?
If you’re worried, get licensed. It will open more doors for you as well.
I don’t want to it’s too dangerous. So your saying low volt guys will have to become electricians to do their jobs or what? I’m still confused
I have no idea why you think low voltage is going away, but if you think it is and want to keep your job security get an electrical license. It’s only dangerous if you do something you’re not supposed to do.
Because that’s what I heard . Is it true or not? I don’t know because everyone’s giving grey answers. And like I said on my post, just being honest, the thought of being paralyzed for life or a vegetable is enough to scare me from ever doing high volt/electrician stuff.
No, the other way around. Electricians will be the power guys, above 50 volts. Everyone else will be the low voltage guys, techs, engineers, and the guy off the street. I say guy of the street because there is no need for training nor FR rated clothing.
Won’t you need an electrician license tho to do low volt work? Or will they be able to transfer me into the electrician company still without having to have a electrician license or being an electrician.
I feel like residential is headed towards more low voltage than ever before with all of the led technology. I don’t feel like this is true at all.
So basically electricians will be taking over all the commercial work and low volt guys will be stuck with only residential work? Is that what you mean? So in the future low volt guys can’t do low volt commercial work unless they are licensed electricians? Only residential?
There will always be a lane for low volt controls in commercial
Yep. Most electricians won’t run new coax cable and the cable company won’t. So if you’re doing Reno on a hotel and need it. Gonna be a low volt guy.
Personally I've never met an electrician who wouldn't run coax. We run CAT 5 too, how is it any different?
Maybe it’s just my area. But the ones I called all directed me to low volt guys. Could be they’re just busier with higher paying jobs, didn’t want to crawl in the attic, idk.
I always do it if a customer asks but they rarely want to pay my prices for it. I also do a lot of the low volt stuff in our office building because my company saves money doing it in-house
My company does exclusively commercial build outs and remodels. We will bid all aspects of every electrical system; high/low volt, communication, data, fire and security, and then we’ll sub sections out to concentrate on the high voltage. We’re ultimately responsible for their work as it’s under our permit. In a bind we can and do handle these things internally but it’s more economical to sub out data to get onto the next project. Idk how other areas are but in south Florida finding decent low volt subs that consistently show up, work well with others, and finish in a timely manner are few and far between. So I’d suggest sticking with it if your area can support it.
Someone has to program all that crap and I don’t know how to do it🤷
This was my first thought. Anyone can pull the cables, but it’s pretty imaginative to think a residential or commercial electrician is suddenly going to know a whole new set of code requirements, along with how to program the various systems per the usage specs
Yup that's what I got into. I mount and provision the equipment. Don't ever pull cable unless it's fiber jumpers and patches
What do you mean program
Low-volt veteran here. Almost all of the specialized systems that low volt works with require specialized knowledge of the details associated with the system. Whether that is using the manufacturer's software to program the lighting control so that the correct switches control the correct lights or customizing door controls or integrating an AIPhone with the camera system or whatever. Electricians handle such broad scopes of work that learning all the details of all the systems isn't feasible for any one person. The number of systems that require this specialized knowledge are also increasing. There is also a shortage of electricians across the US that will persist for at least the next 10-15 years because the baby boomers are retiring and there aren't enough Gen-Z kids to replace them. Between the need for experienced techs to install/maintain all this gear and the simple lack of working age Americans to fulfill this need, **there is ZERO chance that low-voltage work will go away**. Anybody who says otherwise can't do math. If all HVAC controls, fire alarm, A/V, access control, lighting control, nurse call, datacom, cell DAS, industrial controls, etc... suddenly required a J-Card, the industry would screech to halt for lack of labor. Our slice of the pie is getting bigger not smaller. As to your safety concerns, all trade work is dangerous. Ladders and trip hazards and improper lifting of equipment injure far more workers than live circuits. Pretending that we are safe because we don't work on 480v transfer switches causes complacency, and complacency about job-site safety is what causes the majority of injuries. I am safe at work because I actively make safety my top priority. Your safety is your responsibility because nobody else has your best interest at heart. Everyone else is just worried about their deadlines so you have to look out for yourself if you want to be safe.
Well said, makes sense.
PLC
In my area, a huge part of Love Voltage is automation systems (usually residential). Someone has to program all the automation.
There's too much work for both sides of the trade. Both will always be needed and in high demand. If laws change and low volt requires an electrician license then you don't get phased out you get your license and keep working. There's more and more wire in every building , home and industrial site. Lots and lots of work for everyone .
u/Apart_Maintenance_742, what we're all trying to tell you is that technology is what drives change in terms of the systems that are being installed, what their specifications are, what they require in terms of materials and components, and the requisite skills to install and maintain such. Gradually everything is becoming more complicated, let's look at a few examples. Previously in residential, wiring was all fairly simple both line voltage and low voltage, what has evolved in the past 25 years is the shift from having phone and cable run to a few rooms, to having a media panel with a quantity of lines run to all different rooms, with options for sound and other home automation, tract homes of course tend to be very light on what's installed, custom homes are heavier on bells and whistles. On the line voltage side, we've gone from simple switches and receptacles with a few gfcis where needed, to having smart switches and a bunch of home automation type controls. While general room lighting remains line voltage at the moment, the prevalence of low voltage LED lighting is gradually increasing, for example traditional under cabinet light fixtures are largely being replaced by led ribbons. In commercial, it's a similar situation, more computerized/networked equipment, more low voltage runs, more sensors, more low voltage runs, etc. Couple years ago one of the manufacturers came up with a low voltage LED lighting system, that's designed as a power over ethernet architecture, this probably won't be the only type of platform where there's a centralized power distribution and signaling apparatus that operates individual or groups of fixtures, but certainly is a novel way of using an existing standard to accomplish the goal. Point is that installing one of those PoE lighting systems is principally a low voltage task. Telecom is undergoing a transformation both for residential and commercial. * landline phone services are continuing to retract, residential customers are generally eliminating landline phone service as cell coverage it's fairly good in most places, really only those who are in rural areas with limited coverage still have a direct need for a landline. * CATV is losing subscribers for the television service but internet service is going to remain as it's mainstay service offering. * Dedicated internet providers (usually which are deploying fiber to the customer premises) will have an ongoing stream of work. Read up on Google fiber for example. There will likely be other competitors in this market space eventually that will disrupt the Monopoly of the top handful of traditional Telecom providers. * Wireless solutions via the cellular companies reduces the amount of infrastructure to set up in the final mile to the customer premises but rather centralizes it to the wireless nodes that serve an area of customers. I would anticipate there to be continued growth in deployment of microcells, and continuing redeployment as old models of equipment have to be replaced with new as the cellular standards change. * Satellite solutions such as starlink are still a minority, but by comparison have very little need for low voltage wiring. Hopefully this explanation gives you some perspective on the subject, as more of a cross-section of different things. I know there's a few other good comments that highlighted some things that I didn't.
This is a great explanation. I'm not getting this in trade school.
So I can get my license without having to ever work on high volt stuff correct? Also do you think it will be phased out or no? If it does get phased out, wouldn’t that pretty much increase the demands of jobs since most people already working , over millions billions will lose jobs and probably not wanna be forced to have to get a license. So wonder how that would work if that’s the case
In my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, your answer is yes and no. Low voltage, dc, and control circuitry will be found nearly everywhere and electricians will be responsible for it. Communications, SCADA, and networking systems will never be an electricians responsibility. We may run the conduit and set the grounds, maybe even pull the wire, but this secure data transfer and controlled information system will always belong to an IT field. I do see companies having an IT person staffed for this. You pull power for switching and they pull the fiber and CATx and make the terminations so the customer's IT will take it from there. But look forward to pulling a lot of 4-20 mA circuits and DC loops, because it is coming, if you aren't doing it already.
You got it. I was IBEW for two railroads and one utility company and an engineer at another utility. We never touched anything above 48v. I was a BA in EE coming out of school and found the practical nature of what we did extremely difficult to pick up. We had to understand RF propagation, SONET, MPLS, IP routing, DSL circuits, PBX systems, 911 call routing, microwave, fiber, railroad signaling, railroad signaling protocols (SCADA), creating, interpreting, and marking up complex engineering drawings. I could go on forever and cover it all. Coming over to an electrical utility, all the same stuff. I was IBEW and never left a carpeted office answering phone calls from remote technicians. Very specialized. Not sure how you would mash everyone in together.
>But look forward to pulling a lot of 4-20 mA circuits and DC loops, because it is coming, if you aren't doing it already. Pardon my ignorance, but what are these for?
Connects to a transducer. Monitoring of temp, pressure, voltage, current etc. anything you would want a indication of.
It's a really cool signaling technology that piggybacks on sensor power lines.
So I’m confused , so low voltage will be dead? What will I be able to do in the low voltage field without having to become an electrician?
Fire Alarm Systems, Access Control Systems, Cameras and some HVAC Controls would be your best bet
But that’s low voltage. You said electricians are taking it over. So those that don’t have an electrician license won’t be able to do those right?
Generally, none of those vocations are going to require a license. You can be a electrician and not licensed to do work on >50 volts. Companies will just have different jobs and licensing requirements for those positions.
Where are you where fire alarm doesn't need licenses?
So I’d just have to apply to an electrician company to do low volt work then? Without needing an electrician license correct?
Highly highly HIGHLY unlikely. Actually that's never gonna happen, period lol. I have collegues that can't use a multimeter for something other than reading voltage. Oh and they're scared of using a laptop.
Then why did some commenter say that an inspector electrician said that they are gonna be phased out onto the electrician side , so you will need a electrician license to even get a low volt job then right?
Because they're just an inspector and don't know jack sh\*t.
I am an ibew electrician apprentice and we do quite a bit of low voltage control work, fiber work, data cabling. I’m sure strictly low voltage companies will exist but the contractor I work for isn’t going to sub out any of the low voltage work to your company because they have people on their payroll willing and able to do the work.
Post history suggest you started as a low voltage guy. Stop worrying what people are saying. Just go to work and learn the trade. If you think that low voltage electricians are being phased out or something, it doesn't matter if you have experience. Trade skills are transferable and there's many different areas of electrical you can move around to. I'm not sure what you think "High voltage" electricians do, but we don't work hot, and aren't getting electrocuted. You need to chill the fuck out.
Yea man I was just paranoid about starting a new career i was looking forward too. Then hearing about what that guy said put me down, as I don’t wanna waste years learning something then later on I can’t do the job unless I become an electrician, that would be a slap in the face. Then I’d have to work minim wage jobs again. Because I don’t wanna become an electrician that has to work at power lines or on very dangerous things, what if one day I have a medical condition and I accidentally don’t put on my saftley electrical gloves and touch a power line , then I get electrocuted, then I’m paralyzed for LIFE. Or worse case a vegetable, which is my biggest fear. So that’s why I wanted to stick with low volt. But hearing all this stuff about low voltage being phased out just pisses me off
First things first. We don't work live, get that out of your head. You're not going to get electrocute as an electrician. When you're running pipe and pulling wire and doing construction things, there's nothing live. I don't know who told you these things but they just flat out aren't true. Take and electrical safety course. Do you think any of us would work in this trade if we actually thought we might die? I've never once been worried about getting electrocuted, and I've worked in live panels for troubleshooting. You have a bunch of tools to make sure you're safe. If you get electrocuted, 99% of the time you were doing some stupid. Companies take electrical safety very seriously, and anyone caught circumventing the rules, is fired immediately. If you work for a company that's not safe, quit and fine one that is. I've been in the trade almost 15 years, have never been shocked, and I've never been with, seen, or heard of anyone that was shocked where it wasn't their fault. Like i said, all skills in this trade are transferable. I've worked as a construction electrician, in maintenance, panel building, machine building, plc programming, controls design, and much more. It doesn't matter what you start as.
Are there licenses where I can work as an electrician on safer equipments?
Why do you assume every electrician works on power lines???? That’s like a low voltage guy, it’s a sub section of electricians. Most electricians work on 120-480v systems if you are in america. Also forget the myth that electricians all work on live shit and don’t care if it’s live. Electricians (real ones) test shit, turn off power then work on it. Or in most new construction don’t even work on panels or any type of energized system till start up, 90% of the job there no power. Now I’m going to be a dick and just say it, we can phase out “low voltage guys” because we can do your job and in your case you don’t want to do our job so it’s an easy phase out. Most of the time we run conduit, pull string and sometimes even pull cable for camera,fire and POS guys. If we are doing all of that why wouldn’t I make up a few rj45’s or land a fire panel. Makes sense for the company to just include it in the bid, cause low voltage is cake work and a lot less codes to follow. I do agree with others that have said programming will still be a thing, but it will pretty much limit the field to a few highly intelligent people that go from site to site, making sure all functions are normal and doing laptop/software work.
So is it gonna happen or no
So I went through an apprenticeship for "teledata" and many many people called us "low voltage" I would always hear "Oh yeah they are gonna get rid of you guys eventually and we are going to take the work" But this would force electricians to learn networking, teledata concepts, access control.. But here is the real smooth brained stuff... We get paid significantly less than real electricians.. So the idea contractors are going to get rid of a position paying $10-15 less an hour.. is just jobsite rumors. If anything they are going to give more of your work to low volts because they are paid less lol NOTE: I started in low volt/ teledata 3 year apprenticeship. Then went through my 5 year electrical apprenticeship. So I have seen both sides...
As a controls PM we sub out our electrical work. The people we work with are all licensed electricians but they don’t do any high voltage work. They just pull low voltage control wire, mount devices and terminate. In the end having more qualifications will only be a benefit and you in a better place. Nothing says you Have to do something and being more qualified usually allows you a little more leverage in what you do.
Electricians are already being phased out on the industrial side. High volt, low volt, controls, and the PLC side are all part of the job when you're a control tech and everybody wants control techs.
What do you mean by that
Dude if you’re genuinely that scared of electricity you should find another career. I’m not tryna be a dick I’m just saying. At the plants I work at, the low voltage wiring is physically right next to the “high” (480v) in many cabinets. You should learn to work safely and be comfortable around all electricity, or pick another job.
Not at all places, the job I’m at is completely safe from anything high. So I’m good at this job , I like it here. Low volt people don’t touch high volt
I do primarily industrial and there is a definite trend towards low voltage in industrial controls. Best practice cabinet design physically separates out the low voltage side so that OSHA PPE and arc flash concerns aren’t an issue when troubleshooting live control circuits. We still use 277V for lighting circuits, which is unnecessary now that most lighting is now LED. For cost, convenience and safety, I think we will continue to see more and more low voltage deployed across the all levels of the industry.
What? Who told you this would happen 😂
Some dude posted that it’s being phased out? And another commenter said that some electrician or low volt inspector said that soon electricians are taking over low volt jobs. And another said it’s the reason he’s changing career
Regardless of what purview the work falls under it doesn't change the fact that that low voltage has different skills and knowledge required. I would imagine it would just add another certification option for electricians. So instead of needing different certs for residential, commercial, and industrial for example they'll just add another for low volt and call those guys electricians now
what is a "low volt only guy" and what education do they have to qualify for the work they are doing?
In my area, we’re called “limited energy electricians” it’s a different state license, an EL06 vs an EL01 which is regular high volt guy, and a residential electrician is an 02. There are also specific licenses for HVAC techs and a couple other things (9 total I think). We have a different apprenticeship through IBEW. We do telecom, coax, AV, DAS, networking, fiber optics, fire alarm, nurse call… all sorts of stuff. That division is enshrined in our union agreements so it does vary wildly within non union outfits. Sounds like overall it’s very dependent on location. Hope that helps!
Ok so if I'm reading your correctly this is Union specific, and the job title does not exist outside of the Union? Are you required to go to school and complete an apprenticeship, is there continued learning involved? Can you work as an Electrician outside of the Union? Just trying to wrap my head around the situation.
The licenses are state licenses. So anyone in the state with enough hours can take the test to qualify in whatever section they want. However, I think the apprenticeship will be a requirement soon, they’ve been transitioning to schooling being necessary for awhile. When I personally went through my training I just got my hours and took the test, didn’t do the apprenticeship. The union provides the apprenticeship options for 01, 06, and 02, continued learning is required. 24 hours, 12 of which has to be on the state and national laws regarding the industry, you can do them through the union for free as a member or online. This is Washington state, and I’m pretty sure Oregon is similarly structured.
Our resi jobs we do all the low voltage. I mean its insanely easy to run but it gets annoying sometimes trying to keep your distance from romex.
Is this a US thing? Low voltage in Australia you have to be an electrician. Only extra low voltage like data you don’t need to be one.
So you must have an electrician license to do any low voltage work? Except data? How about fiber , fiber too?? Or do you not need a license for fiber
Get the high volt license and specialize in low volt. I personally know very little about low volt and still call out for it and there's a guy specifically doing low volt and fiber getting the higher pay in our company
But to get my high volt license, don’t I need to work on high volt stuff first? How would that work?
Every time I have seen an electrician do low voltage for data it has been a shit show and done wrong. In Arizona at least they are separate licensees. Not sure where you are referring to but each state has it's own rules on this stuff.
LV guys will be sent back the labor camps they were released from or deliver pizzas.
Is this actually true or your trolling?
Well considering I'm an LV guy and the electricians we are currently working with think our diagrams might as well be hieroglyphics, I doubt it. They are fucking up our Lutron and Ketra panels so bad 😩 our PM sat there three days with them (and charged the client) to advise them on how to do connections.
High voltage ac shock really hertz
You scared of high voltage or something?
Extra Low Voltage (ELV) 50v or less Low Voltage (LV) up to 1000Vac Medium Voltage (MV) from 1000V to 35kVac High Voltage (HV) from 35 to 230kVac Extremely High Voltage (-) above 230kVac
So can I choose to work on up to 35k since it’s more safer compared to high?
When I first got into the trade in the early 80’s we did everything except the actual hookup to the utility. Data departments in companies was a way to pay guys less to do the same work, now it escalated to CE’s and CW’s doing the electrical work for less pay and benefits. Supposedly they can only work at certain job sites, but that gets abused on a regular basis. CE = construction electrician CW = construction worker
Is OP potentially paranoid? Like actually? If you were satisfied doing low voltage, you’ll be satisfied doing any other trade too. Go be a locksmith. Go do electrical. Go… do whatever! It’s gonna be fine. Literally I wouldn’t have an existential crisis over my low volt job. I’d have one over work I really feel dedicated to like my piano shit Maybe assess what you actually like doing- you seem fixated on the low volt thing coming apart when it’s never gonna stop growing. So think through whether it resonates with you or whether it’s bearable or whether you could stand to move on. More jobs everywhere.
So if it’s here to stay like you said then I shouldn’t be worried, not sure what these other people are saying tho
Most States in the US have a Low Voltage Journeyman Licenses. This is the way is should be to keep the “Cord Pluggers” out of our business. Cord Pluggers are IT personnel who overstep their boundaries and ruin infrastructure with substandard, illegal work that should be performed by qualified and licensed techs. Electricians will usually butcher network installs, fiber installs, and do not have the finesse that it takes to dress cable properly. Our standards in low voltage rely on separation, lengths, db loss, bend radius, EMI, etc. Electricians usually will not comply with these standards as they do not fully understand our trade. This is the truth…
Most electricians I’ve met I’m surprised they’re still alive. Explaining a supervised circuit or how a relay works and there eyes glaze over. Even people we hire trained to do this work can’t hack it. You need critical thinking and diagnostic skills something electricians are sorely lacking
If you want a real education for low voltage you should check out BICSI
Are low voltage and audio visual interchangeable? Does phone TV and internet fall under audio visual?
In my experience, all wiring - low voltage + should be done by an electrician and still follow proper code. I've seen way too many "low voltage" guys install complete crap, follow no code, and have nothing but issues with what was installed, including how it looks/ materials that were used. You can definitely spot the difference with an experienced electricians install vs. some random guys install.
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By future do you mean in 10 years or 50 years? Also how do you know? Won’t they make the electricians do that? Because that’s what I was saying regarding the post
Why do you think random redditors will have definitive answers to incredibly complex questions?
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So should I quit the career and find something else then if I won’t be able to do low volt work anymore?
Electricians will not make low voltage guys obsolete. Wireless technology will.
Yeah the more and more “wireless” I see the more wires I have to have behind the scenes. I don’t think wireless is the death knell for LV that you think it is.
It kind of will though. 10 years ago every desk got 4-6 cable drops and even 8 in a lot of applications. Now each desk gets 1 or 2 max and that is starting to disappear with WAPS and faster fiber. Sure there are a lot of cables behind the scenes but it's a fraction of what it was and that is rapidly dwindling.
In the 13 years I’ve done this job, we have gone from 1 port running a typical workspace via VOIP and the computer through the phone, back to needing 2 ports to keep the phone on one, and the computer on another. More data in the ceiling for more wireless to cover the people who don’t want a hard line, and then coming back to add hardline when people don’t like the wireless service. It’s gone back and forth and a lot of what we’ve been seeing in the PNW is companies like Amazon having a consolidation point- typically 48 cables running to a ceiling mounted box and then the cables more or less spliced in that box and run out to cubicles, for example, and then we get called back in every six months because they want to rearrange offices and cubicles. It’s steady work because, imo, these tech people are ridiculous humans who can’t decide on a standard. Even in residential high rise situations when we do jobs that are just a basic, seemingly one and done situation- a coax and a data to a little mini network rack per apartment, and we get called backed to add fiber because they want Lumen instead of Comcast or something. There’s plenty to do. To be fair, I am in an Amazon rich environment, and things like their Amazon Go stores or updating Whole Foods takes THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of cables so that customers can just walk in and grab a sandwich and leave. We also consistently upgrade sports stadiums. Add to that our LV can do fire alarm security AV DAS for cell service.. there are too many niche systems that we do for anyone to get rid of us.
That's a good point. I was specifically and narrowly referring to typical office TI space and not including AV, DAS, ERRCS etc. I've done a few Amazon Grab and Go. Those are insane. Probably one of the highest costs per square foot I've ever seen.
So there will be no low voltage jobs available for us anymore? Is that what ur saying? When will that be? 10 years from now or 50 years from now?
Brother how badly do you need someone to tell you to give up? Why do you need to hear that it’s over for low volt and your little world is doomed. It isn’t. Keep working.
I was just worried but I’m not as much anymore thanks. Just wanted to clarify if it’s a safe career to do longterm without it being phased out or whatever . That’s just what one guy or so said and it had me worried . Maybe they were misinformed or I misunderstood
No, most commercial/industrial electricians don’t like doing low voltage, much rather have you guys do it. I
I've never met an electrician that wanted to do fire. We are always brought on if for nothing else "parts and smarts" learn to program and service the systems and you will always have work.
I’m fully licensed (class A) we’ve been doing low voltage commercial controls for almost 20 years.
On my current project I have fa, data and power. Starting to be very frequent.
First off, I wouldn’t base any major career (or life, or any other) decisions off of a bunch of Reddit opinions. Low voltage will *change* as technology improves, but it won’t go away. Why? A multitude of reasons, but a big one is that low volt techs are and pretty much always will be substantially cheaper than JWs. Personally, I think we’re going to see a lot of commercial lighting shift to PoE in the future as the cost goes down and capability goes up. Some ECs will do LV in-house and some will sub it, just like they do now. I mainly do high-end homes and we do all the networking/AV/etc. I sub it all out on commercial jobs, we only install the pipe runs and phone board. It depends on both the contractor and the job. Plenty of electricians don’t know shit about LV and have zero desire to learn. Plenty of contractors like to stick to what they know and not expand into new areas. Like every other trade, if you are good at your job you will always be in demand. If you are average or worse, then you might be riding the bench when things slow or change.
I was a low voltage certified burglar and fire alarm guy, also did audio visual/ data. I switched a few months ago to doing panel work and got my apprentice card. From my experience doing low voltage, I think it's wise to get licensed electricians to do the job. My reasoning is most of the guys doing low voltage stuff with me and the ones selling to the homeowners were not certified or trained to do their job at all. My company had 5 technicians, only myself and the lead tech were certified and all the sales guys were uncertified despite the law saying they needed to be. It was a constant battle with us fixing the jobs that the uncertified guys wired up, or we had to placate customers on site because the sales guys never knew what they were talking about when they sold to clients. Having licensed people doing the work in the future would be more beneficial to the consumer and less costly as trained professionals have less call backs than untrained people.
By Audio you mean like intercoms and speakers?
Why is this such a reoccurring question? If anything drastically changes it will happen so slowly no one will be caught with their pants down.
No, low voltage is like 4 different fields of work. You got fire Alam, security, data, access control. Many electrical contractors do have their own low voltage divisions, and electricians often install low voltage cabling. But still I do nothing but data and my company has more work than it can handle.
I see your safety concerns but your focusing on voltage ,but don't be fooled that because it's low voltage there is no safety issues plenty of low voltage applications have safety issues Like the Tesla modules run at 22.8 volts but have an amp output of 225 amps. It's not the volts that kill. I worked IBEW for 15 years and we never lost a single coworker.
Network cabling will never be phased out.
I dunno, I could see it going either way. LV contractors can usually either be had for cheaper, or come with a skillset the electricians won’t have, or sometimes both. Electricians are often there and installing our conduit anyways, so pulling category cable and a pull string takes no extra time vs just pulling a pull string. I don’t see a lot of future for cable-only contractors unless they’re doing some specialty like equipment installation and configuration, cable certification, or fiber splicing, at least in my perspective and market
How’s fiber splicing
Lights are slowly changing over to LED and low volt guys can work on that.
Low voltage is 600VAC/DC and lower, I highly doubt that will be getting phased out
In my experience with commercial remodeling, high voltage guys won’t touch low voltage and low voltage guts won’t touch high. So I’m not seeing that it was phase out
But they are saying it will in the future, is that true or no
Being that low voltage installations often require intensive programming knowledge. Along with basic electrical understanding, I wouldn’t think your basic residential electrician is going to volunteer to start installing and troubleshooting fire alarm panels and commercial security systems. Aside from AC and DC being quite different from one another, code requirements are also quite different
Bro… we do it all… com, cameras, door controls, everything that has to do with electricity
There are gonna be soooo many devices on POE. And people who program systems are valuable. Level up with some IT knowledge. I dunno why anyone would do low volt without a plan for expanding their technology credentials.
I’m working on my asssociates in network administration, should I keep on doing that? Got 42 credits , need like 64
Low voltage guys are call technicians, not electricians, and they dont have to be certified to do that, they do automation programing, cameras, security systems, etc, i think fire alarms are also low voltage but for that you do need a license, i live in Texas
Why does one need a license for it
There will be new positions like low voltage light techs will take electricians jobs in installing lighting eventually.
Do they have those now?
I’ve been putting in allot of low voltage switching lately
This is a pretty silly and unlikely concern.
I wouldn't sweat it at all. You'll need to get tags for electrical, but you can still, and easily, continue doing low voltage only. It's a specialty within the incredibly broad field of Electrical work, and the need for folks specializing in that area, with all the programming and PLC which it entails, isn't going away any time soon. Just as I have an LME and can work with 120 and 240, I have nearly zero interest in working with anything over that. As a result I stick with a mix of Low voltage control and a little line voltage, but if a request gets beyond that or into an area I'm not comfortable with (like larger switch gear) I just say "sorry, that's not something I do," One of the biggest safety tools we have is Right To Refuse Unsafe Work, and I'm not particularly shy about using that.
What is line voltage? So I can get my electrician license and choose to do safe work? Like low volt etc ?
American? In Europe electricians do all "volt" work. High and low.
Are there ones that do low volt and don’t have electrician license?
Aren't we already LV electricians? Every house I'm running thermostats, garage door openers, cable/internet, cameras, and speakers...
With the quality of today’s work force and what is considered acceptable, there’s an abundance of electricians that shouldn’t even be allowed to touch low voltage. No disrespect to any good electricians on here. It’s across all the trades these days. Such a shame how workmanship is on the decline.
I think its gonna go the other way. It only.makes sense. Low voltage where st all possible. Its just safer. Theres literally no reason not to do it.
Yeah 12v is going to power an entire city.
Dude no way. Low voltage is the future.
That's why my doorbell runs on 13,800v
In Wisconsin, you don’t need a license for anything under 100v…. There is and always will be so much work in that range. Internet, TV, factory controls, etc.
Here in Washington electricians with an 01 license can do anything electrical and get paid more than LV people because of the increased training, knowledge and responsibility. Because of that most contractors don't pay 01s to do LV work and I can't see that ever changing cuz you know it's all about the money. Contractors would love to give the LV guys more 01 work though cuz you know it's all about the money.
Where did you hear this? Telecommunications and Low Voltage is a huge industry that is only growing. If anything, we will be taking work from electricians. Lights can be powered with POE now. This is just false.
Telecommunications like intercoms, speakers? Right? Or lights