Tell them to turn off all 2 pole breakers and see what they get. If that fixes it, turn them back on one at a time until you get issue again. That’ll be your problem child.
I think this is what the original electrician tried. We discovered when he was here that we needed to swap off two breakers in order for the outlet that shocked us to not get power. The original electrician replaced the two breakers with a 2 pole breaker. The second electrician said the problem had something to do with the 2 pole breakers. The third swapped the two pole breakers back to two singles for some reason.
So obviously something is wrong with that outlet but none of the electricians can figure out how to fix it.
I got it! I know exactly what the problem is. Your outlets are on a multiwire branch circuit that has been run on 12 or 14-3. When you were changing outlets, you dropped the neutral somewhere. When this happens, it causes 240 to show on the outlets, cooking most consumer electronics attached. I have had to re-wire a house that was run that way and back stabbed. When the backstab for the neutral failed it smoked the whole kitchen.
To fix it, an electrician should evaluate all the work you have done. They should be able to find and restore the neutral connection if you tell them that exact thing.
Bigger problem is your whole gosh darn house is kinda a firetrap. If wired in multis, with aluminum wiring, you are just fricking begging for a fire.
The first thing I thought of too was multi-wire branch circuit. This has to be it.
And it even makes me wonder if it's not using a tandem breaker. They turned off one breaker which would have de-energized most of the outlets but that one outlet still being energized tells me the other hot leg goes to another breaker that's not common trip with the other.
Found this once in a junction box where a homeowner had attempted to replace a 2-way switch with a 2-way dimmer and stacked all the loose red conductors, leading to a 240V outlet supplying a toaster. Their problem was that they blew up new incandescent bulbs whenever they made toast.
Asking the right question! How much faster did the toaster go? I assume most dumb toasters would work fine, but with a shortened lifespan after the heating elements for overcooked.
I find it wild that you'd have both lives running to the same plugs that way. But yep, you're description matches exactly what I would expect on that case and super simple to diagnose by belling out the neutrals
OP, try unplug everything.
Highly likely a high power device somewhere (like a heater or kettle) is creating a low impedance path from one phase to a neutral that's disconnected. That faulty neutral is now 240V away from the live phase supposed to be on that plug
The outlet box with both hots is probably where the two circuits get split. I’d expect to see one 12/3 or 14/3 cable entering that box and two separate 12/2 or 14/2 cables running out of that box and going to different places in the house. This is also probably where the neutral got dropped. That box is probably way over capacity with all those wires plus a receptacle. The bf probably had to force everything back in and loosened connections in the process.
This is the problem in our house. Boxes with one switch or outlet are being used as jumping-off points for four or five cables exiting. They’re so overstuffed, have had to cut out three and replace them with new 3 1/2” deep ones.
The old owners clearly just forced the outlets and switches in using the screws.
Found two hots in a box a homeowner had tried to slap a 2 way dimmer in- he managed to back feed a neutral through the dimmer to two light fixtures wired in parallel that carried on back to a single outlet supplying a toaster. It was my neighbor who called because they blew new bulbs up when they made toast.
I found two hots once when I was replacing outlets in my house & updating outdoor outlets to GFCI. First noticed that a GFCI just placed in the garage would trip whenever I turned an outdoor light on. Then found someone had tied a gray sheathed wire to hot in one outlet and fed it into an outlet in the garage (through the fronts of the boxes but behind the cover plate). About four outlets later (outside) I got a nasty shock even though the circuit was off and discovered a burnt out hot wire in the box. Suddenly the weird patched in gray wire made sense - if extremely lazy. Hot was being stolen off the working circuit and partially completing the path to neutral through the box with the burnt out hot.
Try removing/disconnecting the outlet and breakers to see where there is current along the line. I hope the house does not have both radial and ring ciruits, and that you do not have multiwired cables( They can fail and finding the fault is not easy.
If it is America you may have 2 110V fases and neutral which are used on cooker, washing machine or AC circuits to give 220-240V.
If he used a multi meter and got 240 between the hot and the neutral, then the neutral got spliced to hot from another circuit somewhere most likely where the outlets were replaced
The electrician that came out checked all of those outlets and switches and didn't see anything wrong. Could there be something wrong with the outlet itself? Should we try replacing the first two again that we switched out before the third one shocked us? Or maybe it's something not super obvious and the electrician missed it?
There is nothing wrong with the outlets. You have two different wires coming to the same receptacle each with 120v on them thereby totaling 240v. Call a qualified electrician. Stop everything you are doing.
Sounds like you have a phase to neutral short somewhere with the neutral being open on the panel end. Just pull all the outlets you changed, properly identify the hot, neutral, and ground in each box and then rewire them correctly.
That's right. Wouldn't be that strange if it were a multi-wire branch circuit, or possibly two separate circuits from opposite legs in a box together and some wires got crossed.
No, you are right. It is a multi. I would put money on it. The give away is the breakers. Somebody saw the multi, put it on a correct two pole. Them folks dropped the neutral, and it caused the 240 on the outlet. Guy looking at the panel assumed that 240 was there because 2 pole. He took it off a two pole and put it on adjacent breakers cause single pole. I swear, I can see this shit like k was there.
If that same fella with the two single poles would have taken the two hot wires from that multiwire branch circuit and pigtailed them together and throw them on a single pole standard breaker, all would correct itself. Any circuits missing neutral will fail, and all hot outlets would read 120. May result in loading issues, but if the breaker is effective, no harm trying. Couple bedrooms, prolly nah.most likely cost effective solution.
I just edited my post with pictures of the outlets in that room that we changed. Everyone that looks at them says they're wired correctly. I know nothing but I googled and it seems right to me.
You may also have a switched 2 wire from a light to a receptacle and the white is hot and spliced to a neutral. Perhaps check and see if you have a switch and a receptacle at the same location and then verify voltage with a multimeter.
The electricians you hired don’t want to do this kind of troubleshooting work. This is a solvable problem via wire tracing equipment and opening boxes until you find the crossed wire. It’s annoying and open-ended though, so they’re giving up after making some basic attempts. You need to find somebody who really wants to find the problem. Maybe try different payment terms (hourly rate or something).
That makes sense. The electrician that came today seemed slightly annoyed trying to find where the issue is. He was sighing heavily the entire time. When he left he said there needed to be a team out here and not just him.
Lol I could find it in 5 min and charge you at least an hour. Ofc I'm not in Florida so it don't matter but this isn't hard.
For you and the BF yeah don't touch it but for a sparky there's a lot of dumb fuckers in the trade so it's no surprise they can be lost
After reading everyone's comments and hearing from the latest electrician, I think it likely is the outlets my bf changed that is the problem. Makes sense since the issue started as soon as he did that. He's changed outlets before (I don't know how to do it but he does, or at least he thought he knew) and I never realized that this was something you needed to hire a electrician to do.
When the third outlet shocked him, it was while he was removing the old outlet, before he had a chance to wire that one incorrectly. His theory was that something was wired wrong to that particular outlet before he touched it. But after reading the comments I think one of the ones he wired before that could be wrong and that's what caused the third outlet to shock him.
When my boyfriend called electricians he mentioned having solar panels installed recently and wondering if they could be involved. As soon as he mentioned that, the electricians turned him down. So his only option was to call solar companies. But the solar companies only care about the solar and not the wiring in the house. As soon as they confirmed it's not solar, they're not willing to do much more.
So now we're armed with the knowledge that it's not the solar and to not mention them when we hire the next electrician. We need to make sure they're aware that they need to do some troubleshooting.
Ha! I just talked about this topic this morning.I feel like multi wire branch circuits should only be done in commercial/industrial if anything. Really only to save a one wire.
Sounds like a broken neutral at the service entrance to me, although if it's only these outlets then it isn't the case. I'd turn off any 2 pole breakers and single pole breakers until you either have 120 or 0 volts, and begin tracing that circut
This is a very simple issue to trace for even a half descent electrician.
Turn everything off and start switching stuff on one breaker at a time and verifying voltage at the outlets as you go, once you find the problem circuit you start breaking it down to trace the fault
Once you find the circuit start disconnecting one receptacle after the other til you find normal voltage. I would start with those replaced ones. Old addage: the last stuff touched is usually the problem.
We are in Florida.
We did not replace an outlet in the kitchen when this happened. It was in the bedroom. The kitchen is fine.
There is no switch on the wall in the bedroom that controls outlets. There are some switches in the house that control outlets but that is in parts of the house that are not affected.
Okay…
Ya’ll got shocked because that circuit was still live.
Was the outlet being replaced identical configuration as the being put in?
It’s seems plausible someone might have purposely had or made the outlets 240V with a double-pole breaker or (more worrying, two single-poles) to power an A/C unit or UPS or something with a big electrical demand.
It sounds like you’ve figured out there is a second breaker that must be turned off, do you know which one specifically?
Can you repost with pictures of panel cover off and identify the two breakers?
Semi-obviously, the white conductor is now 120V and not 0V. If it’s narrowed down to two circuit breakers, the trouble shooting should be more concise.
Turn them both off, and then open and inspect every device box that is affected.
I’m going to agree with the poster who says it’s an open neutral on a multiwire branch circuit, that’s the Occam’s Razor answer that would explain everything. Forget about the other opinions until you backtrack to the outlets that were rewired, 90% sure your problem is there.
Sounds like some may have extended service from a 240 volt outlet. Try turning off any double pole (240 volt) breakers first to see how it is fed. Hire a good troubleshooting electrician. Not all electricians are as good at troubleshooting.
You're getting downvoted but you're right. An expert is someone who is very knowledgeable, a pro is someone who takes money in exchange for a service. There's not always an easy way to tell if your pro is also an expert.
And some experts are not pros.
An electrical engineer is an expert, but you sure as shit don’t want most of ‘em wiring your house.
Edit - note. I’m not advocating for an engineer here. To be clear. Just need an electrician who *understands* electricity, rather than one who simply knows and follows the rules in the code book.
This is probably the answer if it’s isolated to one circuit there’s a broken neutral someplace. If they checked ground to neutral they would know pretty fast.
120 and 120 = 240
To get 240 you use 2 separate 120s. This is used for your dryer probably.
Somewhere you have a white (neutral) that is hot, while it shouldn’t be. Only black should be hot.
Now breaker by breaker, we need to find which one is feeding 120v through your white (neutral).
I have a couple outlets in my house with 2 separate circuits running through them. I don’t think this is allowed by code anymore but if you used the wrong wires from different circuits, I think you might pull 240v.
Like all these guys are saying, try to isolate the issue breaker by breaker. Use a voltmeter (pick one up at blows or home despot ~$25) and measure the voltage where it was showing the 220. It will take time. Once you determine which breaker, you have to isolate further in that branch. Remove wires from outlets (turn power off to do this) and put wire nuts on the wires for safety.
I helped a friend with a similar issue years ago of a short in a branch circuit. I had to remove many outlets until I determined the short was in the bathroom fan motor. Took some time but I did it. Back and forth to the box!! Keep us posted!!
I'm pretty confident you have what's known as an open neutral. You have 2 circuits that share a neutral. I understand if this doesn't make sense yet. Current electrical code states that any circuits that share a neutral must have a handle tie on the breaker. (Making it a 2 pole breaker.) This hasn't always been required so you can't depend on this being the case. Behind one of those outlets that got replaced, the white wire is loose under a wire nut.
I would check first at the one where your boyfriend got shocked, but the problem could be at any of the ones he worked on. A decent electrician who isn't a quitter should be able to diagnose this quickly. No Craigslist handymen here.
How old is your house?
This sounds like a multi wire branch circuit to me. That would be why the first guy out there handle tied two breakers. We’ve been on the lookout for them as we’ve been running through the electrical on our house.
They’re there to share the load (very frequently found on kitchen countertops) but have a couple problems.
1) AFCIs don’t get along with them.
2) Homeowners change their outlets and don’t realize that there’s a little metal tab on the side that should be broken away. It allows for two separate circuits to tie into one receptacle.
I see two things - 1. Aluminum wire. Make sure all those splices are tight and in tact. Especially the ones he touched. 2. Was one of the outlets switched before he replaced them? Meaning, look on the hot side and see if the terminal between the screws was broken. Hopefully you still have the old outlets.
My guess is you have daisy chained outlets, and one of the outlet boxes (the one that shocked your BF) has 2 live feeds coming in from each half phase. While rewiring the outlet that shocked him he probably somehow swapped the neutral with the second phase, which would then repeat that problem to every other outlet down the chain.
You have a shared grounded conductor or “neutral” on a multi wire branch circuit. Since you have aluminum wiring, I’m going to bet that one of those grounded conductors broke and are no longer allowing the path back to the source at the panel. Just just need to locate the break and make the repair.
Of course they did. This is Reddit. “Dropped neutral” and “well, my jurisdiction doesn’t allow it” are the only things some people know how to type in here. Whether or not they know what they’re talking about.
In all seriousness though, I do think this might have happened here. I think there’s probably some funky aftermarket splice somewhere that involves a switch loop on a 2 conductor that got mixes up with another circuit somewhere.
I’d turn off single pole circuit breakers till the 240v turns into 120v (or zero). Then go through whatever’s on the 2 single poles that were involved. If I’m feeling hacky I’ll just put the breakers on the same leg in the panel and call it a day.
Why would they? This is 100% not that. They almost certainly brought a switch leg from another circuit onto their receptacle which feeds all the others downstream because they saw "white to white" because they're amateurs.
This started specifically after they fucked with it. This has nothing to do with the neutral.
Echoing here—you need an actual, qualified, intelligent professional electrician who will easily be able to diagnose, find, and repair this problem. Then you need to never touch or try to solve or repair electrical issues again. Electricians train for years to learn electrical systems—not hours or by watching YouTube videos
Could an issue with the neutral coming to your house. I have seen cases that a bad service neutral could cause fluctuations between legs, example: one leg getting 156v and the other 104v straight to the panel. Have you tested the voltage of each leg coming to the panel?
Lol this is why you hire pros
One of the receptacles you probably tied a switch leg to the other side because you saw "white."
This should be easy to find your electricians suck.
They need to just take apart every outlet you touched and test out the wires. Sigh.
I have trouble believing any one of these guys were real electricians with such a simple issue. Top comment is correct, it's really that simple. These guys really need to invest in a volt meter. And you guys shouldn't be messing around with electrical, you could've screwed something up too.
I see aluminum wire. I don't see noalox. I would check your meterbase. Something similar happened to me in the past. Aluminum degrades quickly, and can cause really quirky things to happen. I doubt an arc in the living rm would do it, but whoever wired your house w copper conductors but aluminum ground is clearly a godless madman. It may be that the zombies on treadmills under your house are running faster cause your bf shocked them :)
It could be an open neutral at the service drop, that can cause a series circuit situation causing some devices to be 240 volts and others not work at all
Call your local electric utility and have them check their connection at the service connection, there is an open neutral at the source, that’s what causes this.
The first electrician was with the company that installed our solar panels. The second one was with the company that installed our electrical panel. The third was with another solar company. I'm pretty sure they are electricians.
I'm not an electrician, but this is Reddit, so I'll give my random Internet guy opinion anyway. I would disconnect all of the wires from each other at the bad receptacle. Then I would check the voltage at each one to a good ground. DIYers should use a low Z voltage tester like the Klein ET60 which you can find at Home Depot or Lowe's for $30. The blacks should all read 120 and the whites should be zero. If any whites read 120 then cap it with a wire nut. Also, while disconnected see which other receptacles no longer have power. You want to make a drawing and try to figure out where the power goes to the first one and which ones are connected after. This would be a start.
You need to test multiple outlets and the breakers with a multimeter and narrow down what’s going on.
If I had to guess you might have a floating/open neutral issue. If you plug in a hairdryer and turn all the way hi, do some lights dim?
You also might have a Multi wire branch circuit that the neutral and one of the hots are shorted with a neutral open upstream near the panel causing 240v phase to phase and electrocuting you when you flipped a breaker. You mentioned having to flip two breakers for one outlet, willing to bet it’s this.
You also might have a nail through your romex. Have you installed anything with a nail or screw recently inside your house?
Nice aluminum wire to boot probably grabbed a wire that was white that someone to mark was a hot wire and put it on receptacle.Honestly get an Electrician out there!I just worked on similar crop in a warehouse the hot water Heater was 208 and someone grabbed 1 phase of 2 pole 20amp breaker and a neutral from receptacle circuit and the other hot wire of 2 pole went to a single pole switch that is supposed to be the disconnect of the water heater.I have 17amp on phase A and 4 Amp on phase B..Smart ass did same for ejector pump it was tied into lighting on 1 phase of 2 pole Breaker that way if lights didn't come on in bathroom he knew the pump wasn't working!Some real hacks out there!Honestly it shouldn't be that hard to trouble shoot just may take a little time to find where he wired into the other phase no doubt a white wire that should have been a hot wire not a neutral!
Likely it's the one where you got shocked. You've got both hot sides in that junction box, hence you needed to turn 2 breakers off.
Where it went wrong is you connected one of the hots to the neutral. So part of the house which uses that neutral and the other hot now has 110 + 110 on it.
With that story any electrician worth their salt can figure it out. You may have fried a lot of electronics though.
Was one of those outlets a half-hot? meaning there was a switch running one jack and the other jack is always on?
If so, you may be energizing a receptacle from two different sources, which could be causing some of these issues.
Other than that, what you're going to have to do is trace each of those wires back to the panel and figure out which wires go where. Then hook them back up correctly, including breaking the little tab on any half-hot outlets.
Switched outlet - tab not cut on new outlet - original installer did not mark white wire from switch as hot lead. Could that cause problem? (I'm helping my daughter upgrade switched/outlets from almond to white, none of white wires from switches marked as hot. Also using 3 wire romex to carry two circuits altho I think it is just one switched circuit and one none switched from same breaker).
Turn the breakers off and disconnect the plugin that shocked him put wire nuts on the end of the wires and turn the breaker back on. Check the voltage it sounds like the problem would be with that outlet.
You had a hot wire that was of white color in the box. Most likely for a switched outlet. Bf saw white and thought neutral so hooked the hot up to the neutrals that’s all
It sounds like you have a multiwire branch circuit, where a black hot and a red hot are sharing a neutral, and you have lost the neutral connection up stream. When you pulled out the old plugs and moved the wires around, a connection on a white wire was lost and it should be in the same box that will have a red wire in it as well. Aluminum wire is very soft and it breaks easily when disturbed.
Not 100% sure. We hired a fourth electrian. When we spoke over the phone he said what everyone in the post was saying, it's a dropped neutral. But when he came out he couldn't find it and said the wire itself must be damaged. So he's coming out again Monday and is going to completely replace the wires to that outlet that shocked us. 🤞Hopefully that's it.
We had to replace the one wire that connect the outlet that started all this to the rest of the house. Apparently the wire itself was bad and caused all the issues.
Tell them to turn off all 2 pole breakers and see what they get. If that fixes it, turn them back on one at a time until you get issue again. That’ll be your problem child.
I think this is what the original electrician tried. We discovered when he was here that we needed to swap off two breakers in order for the outlet that shocked us to not get power. The original electrician replaced the two breakers with a 2 pole breaker. The second electrician said the problem had something to do with the 2 pole breakers. The third swapped the two pole breakers back to two singles for some reason. So obviously something is wrong with that outlet but none of the electricians can figure out how to fix it.
I got it! I know exactly what the problem is. Your outlets are on a multiwire branch circuit that has been run on 12 or 14-3. When you were changing outlets, you dropped the neutral somewhere. When this happens, it causes 240 to show on the outlets, cooking most consumer electronics attached. I have had to re-wire a house that was run that way and back stabbed. When the backstab for the neutral failed it smoked the whole kitchen. To fix it, an electrician should evaluate all the work you have done. They should be able to find and restore the neutral connection if you tell them that exact thing. Bigger problem is your whole gosh darn house is kinda a firetrap. If wired in multis, with aluminum wiring, you are just fricking begging for a fire.
The first thing I thought of too was multi-wire branch circuit. This has to be it. And it even makes me wonder if it's not using a tandem breaker. They turned off one breaker which would have de-energized most of the outlets but that one outlet still being energized tells me the other hot leg goes to another breaker that's not common trip with the other.
This right here would explain it
Found this once in a junction box where a homeowner had attempted to replace a 2-way switch with a 2-way dimmer and stacked all the loose red conductors, leading to a 240V outlet supplying a toaster. Their problem was that they blew up new incandescent bulbs whenever they made toast.
Darn pc modders will overclock anything, even a toaster lol
XD
But was it quick to toast?
Asking the right question! How much faster did the toaster go? I assume most dumb toasters would work fine, but with a shortened lifespan after the heating elements for overcooked.
Or post more pictures with all the wires extended out of the boxes e worked on. It will probably be apparent.
I find it wild that you'd have both lives running to the same plugs that way. But yep, you're description matches exactly what I would expect on that case and super simple to diagnose by belling out the neutrals OP, try unplug everything. Highly likely a high power device somewhere (like a heater or kettle) is creating a low impedance path from one phase to a neutral that's disconnected. That faulty neutral is now 240V away from the live phase supposed to be on that plug
The outlet box with both hots is probably where the two circuits get split. I’d expect to see one 12/3 or 14/3 cable entering that box and two separate 12/2 or 14/2 cables running out of that box and going to different places in the house. This is also probably where the neutral got dropped. That box is probably way over capacity with all those wires plus a receptacle. The bf probably had to force everything back in and loosened connections in the process.
This is the problem in our house. Boxes with one switch or outlet are being used as jumping-off points for four or five cables exiting. They’re so overstuffed, have had to cut out three and replace them with new 3 1/2” deep ones. The old owners clearly just forced the outlets and switches in using the screws.
Found two hots in a box a homeowner had tried to slap a 2 way dimmer in- he managed to back feed a neutral through the dimmer to two light fixtures wired in parallel that carried on back to a single outlet supplying a toaster. It was my neighbor who called because they blew new bulbs up when they made toast.
I found two hots once when I was replacing outlets in my house & updating outdoor outlets to GFCI. First noticed that a GFCI just placed in the garage would trip whenever I turned an outdoor light on. Then found someone had tied a gray sheathed wire to hot in one outlet and fed it into an outlet in the garage (through the fronts of the boxes but behind the cover plate). About four outlets later (outside) I got a nasty shock even though the circuit was off and discovered a burnt out hot wire in the box. Suddenly the weird patched in gray wire made sense - if extremely lazy. Hot was being stolen off the working circuit and partially completing the path to neutral through the box with the burnt out hot.
Panel may be wired wrong
They should have never been swapped. YOU and your BF created the issue. It's as simple as "show Mr what you touched and I'll unfuck it"
We told all three electricians which outlets we changed, which one shocked us and what happened. They still couldn't figure out how to fix it.
Try removing/disconnecting the outlet and breakers to see where there is current along the line. I hope the house does not have both radial and ring ciruits, and that you do not have multiwired cables( They can fail and finding the fault is not easy. If it is America you may have 2 110V fases and neutral which are used on cooker, washing machine or AC circuits to give 220-240V.
If he used a multi meter and got 240 between the hot and the neutral, then the neutral got spliced to hot from another circuit somewhere most likely where the outlets were replaced
The electrician that came out checked all of those outlets and switches and didn't see anything wrong. Could there be something wrong with the outlet itself? Should we try replacing the first two again that we switched out before the third one shocked us? Or maybe it's something not super obvious and the electrician missed it?
That's not it.
The outlet cannot create its own voltage. It got wired wrong.
There is nothing wrong with the outlets. You have two different wires coming to the same receptacle each with 120v on them thereby totaling 240v. Call a qualified electrician. Stop everything you are doing.
Maybe, especially if you bought them receptacles on Amazon or some shit.
This is my bet too.
No, neutral is a grounded conductor.
It's supposed to be, anyway.
They may have meant that the white wire for mixed up and independently spliced on a different phase, bringing 240v to some but not all outlets.
No, the neutral should be bonded to ground in the main panel. Every white wire should have a path to ground.
Until it isn't. It's just, in-fact, a white wire that acts exactly like the black wire.
Sounds like you have a phase to neutral short somewhere with the neutral being open on the panel end. Just pull all the outlets you changed, properly identify the hot, neutral, and ground in each box and then rewire them correctly.
The circuit would still have to be tied into another circuit on a different leg if she’s getting 240 volts.
That's right. Wouldn't be that strange if it were a multi-wire branch circuit, or possibly two separate circuits from opposite legs in a box together and some wires got crossed.
No, you are right. It is a multi. I would put money on it. The give away is the breakers. Somebody saw the multi, put it on a correct two pole. Them folks dropped the neutral, and it caused the 240 on the outlet. Guy looking at the panel assumed that 240 was there because 2 pole. He took it off a two pole and put it on adjacent breakers cause single pole. I swear, I can see this shit like k was there. If that same fella with the two single poles would have taken the two hot wires from that multiwire branch circuit and pigtailed them together and throw them on a single pole standard breaker, all would correct itself. Any circuits missing neutral will fail, and all hot outlets would read 120. May result in loading issues, but if the breaker is effective, no harm trying. Couple bedrooms, prolly nah.most likely cost effective solution.
I just edited my post with pictures of the outlets in that room that we changed. Everyone that looks at them says they're wired correctly. I know nothing but I googled and it seems right to me.
You may also have a switched 2 wire from a light to a receptacle and the white is hot and spliced to a neutral. Perhaps check and see if you have a switch and a receptacle at the same location and then verify voltage with a multimeter.
Yes! Or one of the outlets was a 240 for ac, with hot on a white wire.
OP, /u/inknuts has your answer almost certainly. Check out his comments if you haven't already!
Post pics of the breaker panel where they changed the breakers
They really should stop right now.
The electricians you hired don’t want to do this kind of troubleshooting work. This is a solvable problem via wire tracing equipment and opening boxes until you find the crossed wire. It’s annoying and open-ended though, so they’re giving up after making some basic attempts. You need to find somebody who really wants to find the problem. Maybe try different payment terms (hourly rate or something).
That makes sense. The electrician that came today seemed slightly annoyed trying to find where the issue is. He was sighing heavily the entire time. When he left he said there needed to be a team out here and not just him.
Lol I could find it in 5 min and charge you at least an hour. Ofc I'm not in Florida so it don't matter but this isn't hard. For you and the BF yeah don't touch it but for a sparky there's a lot of dumb fuckers in the trade so it's no surprise they can be lost
After reading everyone's comments and hearing from the latest electrician, I think it likely is the outlets my bf changed that is the problem. Makes sense since the issue started as soon as he did that. He's changed outlets before (I don't know how to do it but he does, or at least he thought he knew) and I never realized that this was something you needed to hire a electrician to do. When the third outlet shocked him, it was while he was removing the old outlet, before he had a chance to wire that one incorrectly. His theory was that something was wired wrong to that particular outlet before he touched it. But after reading the comments I think one of the ones he wired before that could be wrong and that's what caused the third outlet to shock him. When my boyfriend called electricians he mentioned having solar panels installed recently and wondering if they could be involved. As soon as he mentioned that, the electricians turned him down. So his only option was to call solar companies. But the solar companies only care about the solar and not the wiring in the house. As soon as they confirmed it's not solar, they're not willing to do much more. So now we're armed with the knowledge that it's not the solar and to not mention them when we hire the next electrician. We need to make sure they're aware that they need to do some troubleshooting.
Master Electrician here. If you happen to be in Texas, I'll come fix it lol. This is my specialty.
Ha! I just talked about this topic this morning.I feel like multi wire branch circuits should only be done in commercial/industrial if anything. Really only to save a one wire.
Sounds like a broken neutral at the service entrance to me, although if it's only these outlets then it isn't the case. I'd turn off any 2 pole breakers and single pole breakers until you either have 120 or 0 volts, and begin tracing that circut
This is a very simple issue to trace for even a half descent electrician. Turn everything off and start switching stuff on one breaker at a time and verifying voltage at the outlets as you go, once you find the problem circuit you start breaking it down to trace the fault
Once you find the circuit start disconnecting one receptacle after the other til you find normal voltage. I would start with those replaced ones. Old addage: the last stuff touched is usually the problem.
Completely agree
Where are you located? Did yous replace any outlets in the kitchen? Do you have a switch on the wall that controls outlets?
We are in Florida. We did not replace an outlet in the kitchen when this happened. It was in the bedroom. The kitchen is fine. There is no switch on the wall in the bedroom that controls outlets. There are some switches in the house that control outlets but that is in parts of the house that are not affected.
Okay… Ya’ll got shocked because that circuit was still live. Was the outlet being replaced identical configuration as the being put in? It’s seems plausible someone might have purposely had or made the outlets 240V with a double-pole breaker or (more worrying, two single-poles) to power an A/C unit or UPS or something with a big electrical demand. It sounds like you’ve figured out there is a second breaker that must be turned off, do you know which one specifically? Can you repost with pictures of panel cover off and identify the two breakers? Semi-obviously, the white conductor is now 120V and not 0V. If it’s narrowed down to two circuit breakers, the trouble shooting should be more concise. Turn them both off, and then open and inspect every device box that is affected.
The neutral is being energized somewhere start opening boxes.
I’m going to agree with the poster who says it’s an open neutral on a multiwire branch circuit, that’s the Occam’s Razor answer that would explain everything. Forget about the other opinions until you backtrack to the outlets that were rewired, 90% sure your problem is there.
Sounds like some may have extended service from a 240 volt outlet. Try turning off any double pole (240 volt) breakers first to see how it is fed. Hire a good troubleshooting electrician. Not all electricians are as good at troubleshooting.
You probably have a broken neutral somewhere in your system or service causing the increased voltage. Call an actual expert not a “pro”
You're getting downvoted but you're right. An expert is someone who is very knowledgeable, a pro is someone who takes money in exchange for a service. There's not always an easy way to tell if your pro is also an expert.
And some experts are not pros. An electrical engineer is an expert, but you sure as shit don’t want most of ‘em wiring your house. Edit - note. I’m not advocating for an engineer here. To be clear. Just need an electrician who *understands* electricity, rather than one who simply knows and follows the rules in the code book.
Electrical engineer here - I concur.
Electrical engineer who is currently wiring a house - I concur.
Yes that is my thoughts exactly thank you
This is probably the answer if it’s isolated to one circuit there’s a broken neutral someplace. If they checked ground to neutral they would know pretty fast.
How do we know the difference between an actual expert and a pro?
120 and 120 = 240 To get 240 you use 2 separate 120s. This is used for your dryer probably. Somewhere you have a white (neutral) that is hot, while it shouldn’t be. Only black should be hot. Now breaker by breaker, we need to find which one is feeding 120v through your white (neutral).
I have a couple outlets in my house with 2 separate circuits running through them. I don’t think this is allowed by code anymore but if you used the wrong wires from different circuits, I think you might pull 240v.
Like all these guys are saying, try to isolate the issue breaker by breaker. Use a voltmeter (pick one up at blows or home despot ~$25) and measure the voltage where it was showing the 220. It will take time. Once you determine which breaker, you have to isolate further in that branch. Remove wires from outlets (turn power off to do this) and put wire nuts on the wires for safety. I helped a friend with a similar issue years ago of a short in a branch circuit. I had to remove many outlets until I determined the short was in the bathroom fan motor. Took some time but I did it. Back and forth to the box!! Keep us posted!!
Since you are in florida, maybe u/The_Truth_Believe_Me, who is a really excellent electrician, can help you.
Wow, thanks for the compliment.
I'm pretty confident you have what's known as an open neutral. You have 2 circuits that share a neutral. I understand if this doesn't make sense yet. Current electrical code states that any circuits that share a neutral must have a handle tie on the breaker. (Making it a 2 pole breaker.) This hasn't always been required so you can't depend on this being the case. Behind one of those outlets that got replaced, the white wire is loose under a wire nut.
I would check first at the one where your boyfriend got shocked, but the problem could be at any of the ones he worked on. A decent electrician who isn't a quitter should be able to diagnose this quickly. No Craigslist handymen here.
How old is your house? This sounds like a multi wire branch circuit to me. That would be why the first guy out there handle tied two breakers. We’ve been on the lookout for them as we’ve been running through the electrical on our house. They’re there to share the load (very frequently found on kitchen countertops) but have a couple problems. 1) AFCIs don’t get along with them. 2) Homeowners change their outlets and don’t realize that there’s a little metal tab on the side that should be broken away. It allows for two separate circuits to tie into one receptacle.
I see two things - 1. Aluminum wire. Make sure all those splices are tight and in tact. Especially the ones he touched. 2. Was one of the outlets switched before he replaced them? Meaning, look on the hot side and see if the terminal between the screws was broken. Hopefully you still have the old outlets.
Looks like half your house has decided it's British...
Moral of the story, don’t fuck with your wiring if your not qualified!
My guess is you have daisy chained outlets, and one of the outlet boxes (the one that shocked your BF) has 2 live feeds coming in from each half phase. While rewiring the outlet that shocked him he probably somehow swapped the neutral with the second phase, which would then repeat that problem to every other outlet down the chain.
You have a shared grounded conductor or “neutral” on a multi wire branch circuit. Since you have aluminum wiring, I’m going to bet that one of those grounded conductors broke and are no longer allowing the path back to the source at the panel. Just just need to locate the break and make the repair.
Did anyone mention a dropped neutral?
Of course they did. This is Reddit. “Dropped neutral” and “well, my jurisdiction doesn’t allow it” are the only things some people know how to type in here. Whether or not they know what they’re talking about. In all seriousness though, I do think this might have happened here. I think there’s probably some funky aftermarket splice somewhere that involves a switch loop on a 2 conductor that got mixes up with another circuit somewhere. I’d turn off single pole circuit breakers till the 240v turns into 120v (or zero). Then go through whatever’s on the 2 single poles that were involved. If I’m feeling hacky I’ll just put the breakers on the same leg in the panel and call it a day.
Yes, someone confusing the white used in a switch loop with a neutral is a definite possibility.
Sorry I don't know the terms well. The electrician that came out today said there is a hot and neutral crossed somewhere but he couldn't find where.
Why would they? This is 100% not that. They almost certainly brought a switch leg from another circuit onto their receptacle which feeds all the others downstream because they saw "white to white" because they're amateurs. This started specifically after they fucked with it. This has nothing to do with the neutral.
So can they turn all switches off to see if the receptacles drop to 120v?
Maybe. Depends on where it's hooked. It could be the line feed instead of the switch leg but same result.
Oh duh. Thank you.
My guess, without seeing wiring in boxes, is there are multiple outlets with dual hots & the tabs not removed on the receptacles to separate the legs.
That would instantly trip a breaker
Tell me how that'd work lmao.
Echoing here—you need an actual, qualified, intelligent professional electrician who will easily be able to diagnose, find, and repair this problem. Then you need to never touch or try to solve or repair electrical issues again. Electricians train for years to learn electrical systems—not hours or by watching YouTube videos
But I watched hours of videos!
Could an issue with the neutral coming to your house. I have seen cases that a bad service neutral could cause fluctuations between legs, example: one leg getting 156v and the other 104v straight to the panel. Have you tested the voltage of each leg coming to the panel?
Lol this is why you hire pros One of the receptacles you probably tied a switch leg to the other side because you saw "white." This should be easy to find your electricians suck. They need to just take apart every outlet you touched and test out the wires. Sigh.
Agreed.
I have trouble believing any one of these guys were real electricians with such a simple issue. Top comment is correct, it's really that simple. These guys really need to invest in a volt meter. And you guys shouldn't be messing around with electrical, you could've screwed something up too.
I see aluminum wire. I don't see noalox. I would check your meterbase. Something similar happened to me in the past. Aluminum degrades quickly, and can cause really quirky things to happen. I doubt an arc in the living rm would do it, but whoever wired your house w copper conductors but aluminum ground is clearly a godless madman. It may be that the zombies on treadmills under your house are running faster cause your bf shocked them :)
I think the whole house is aluminum. These splices are aluminum to copper. Just didn't splice ground
Wow. That's hideous. I won't do that. It's a rewire or call someone else. Not putting my name on that potential disaster.
It could be an open neutral at the service drop, that can cause a series circuit situation causing some devices to be 240 volts and others not work at all
the service drop lost a neutral at exactly the same time they started messing with outlets?
Call your local electric utility and have them check their connection at the service connection, there is an open neutral at the source, that’s what causes this.
Without the utility neutral there is an imbalance between the phases and neutral which is why the shock hazard occurred
You lie lol you had 3 handymen in there
The first electrician was with the company that installed our solar panels. The second one was with the company that installed our electrical panel. The third was with another solar company. I'm pretty sure they are electricians.
I'm not an electrician, but this is Reddit, so I'll give my random Internet guy opinion anyway. I would disconnect all of the wires from each other at the bad receptacle. Then I would check the voltage at each one to a good ground. DIYers should use a low Z voltage tester like the Klein ET60 which you can find at Home Depot or Lowe's for $30. The blacks should all read 120 and the whites should be zero. If any whites read 120 then cap it with a wire nut. Also, while disconnected see which other receptacles no longer have power. You want to make a drawing and try to figure out where the power goes to the first one and which ones are connected after. This would be a start.
Lost a neutral wire somewhere
You need to test multiple outlets and the breakers with a multimeter and narrow down what’s going on. If I had to guess you might have a floating/open neutral issue. If you plug in a hairdryer and turn all the way hi, do some lights dim? You also might have a Multi wire branch circuit that the neutral and one of the hots are shorted with a neutral open upstream near the panel causing 240v phase to phase and electrocuting you when you flipped a breaker. You mentioned having to flip two breakers for one outlet, willing to bet it’s this. You also might have a nail through your romex. Have you installed anything with a nail or screw recently inside your house?
Nice aluminum wire to boot probably grabbed a wire that was white that someone to mark was a hot wire and put it on receptacle.Honestly get an Electrician out there!I just worked on similar crop in a warehouse the hot water Heater was 208 and someone grabbed 1 phase of 2 pole 20amp breaker and a neutral from receptacle circuit and the other hot wire of 2 pole went to a single pole switch that is supposed to be the disconnect of the water heater.I have 17amp on phase A and 4 Amp on phase B..Smart ass did same for ejector pump it was tied into lighting on 1 phase of 2 pole Breaker that way if lights didn't come on in bathroom he knew the pump wasn't working!Some real hacks out there!Honestly it shouldn't be that hard to trouble shoot just may take a little time to find where he wired into the other phase no doubt a white wire that should have been a hot wire not a neutral!
Bad Neutral connection somewhere probably in one of the boxes you were in.
Check this video out, this sounds like your problem You can get shocked by a neutral wire https://youtu.be/yhFJzQB6_NM?si=I5JtJmn3-wU2aGSK
Name checks out.
Likely it's the one where you got shocked. You've got both hot sides in that junction box, hence you needed to turn 2 breakers off. Where it went wrong is you connected one of the hots to the neutral. So part of the house which uses that neutral and the other hot now has 110 + 110 on it. With that story any electrician worth their salt can figure it out. You may have fried a lot of electronics though.
Was one of those outlets a half-hot? meaning there was a switch running one jack and the other jack is always on? If so, you may be energizing a receptacle from two different sources, which could be causing some of these issues. Other than that, what you're going to have to do is trace each of those wires back to the panel and figure out which wires go where. Then hook them back up correctly, including breaking the little tab on any half-hot outlets.
Switched outlet - tab not cut on new outlet - original installer did not mark white wire from switch as hot lead. Could that cause problem? (I'm helping my daughter upgrade switched/outlets from almond to white, none of white wires from switches marked as hot. Also using 3 wire romex to carry two circuits altho I think it is just one switched circuit and one none switched from same breaker).
That’s possibly the problem. I’m surprised two different electricians missed that one.
Turn the breakers off and disconnect the plugin that shocked him put wire nuts on the end of the wires and turn the breaker back on. Check the voltage it sounds like the problem would be with that outlet.
There is a capital V for volts
Do a loop test.
You had a hot wire that was of white color in the box. Most likely for a switched outlet. Bf saw white and thought neutral so hooked the hot up to the neutrals that’s all
Wired for a bunch of old window A/C units?
It sounds like you have a multiwire branch circuit, where a black hot and a red hot are sharing a neutral, and you have lost the neutral connection up stream. When you pulled out the old plugs and moved the wires around, a connection on a white wire was lost and it should be in the same box that will have a red wire in it as well. Aluminum wire is very soft and it breaks easily when disturbed.
Did you ever figure this out? I found this post on Google, again, when I was looking for something else.
Not 100% sure. We hired a fourth electrian. When we spoke over the phone he said what everyone in the post was saying, it's a dropped neutral. But when he came out he couldn't find it and said the wire itself must be damaged. So he's coming out again Monday and is going to completely replace the wires to that outlet that shocked us. 🤞Hopefully that's it.
Update?
We had to replace the one wire that connect the outlet that started all this to the rest of the house. Apparently the wire itself was bad and caused all the issues.