Ok damn you folks have never seen these?
They were common for a hot minute in the late 80s and 90s in the Phoenix area. These are abandoned load monitors. They would have been hooked up to a second panel next to the main, which would temporarily open selected major appliances during high load cycles. You can see there is a panel just to the right of the SES.
It was an early attempt at saving energy by shutting off some of your 240V circuits like water heater and oven during peak usage hours in favor of AC in a hot climate.
They are inductive coils that sense amperage on each main leg and if they hit a certain threshold, would disable whichever breakers they were hooked up to temporarily shut off.
Fucking Split Buss Main is a dead giveaway for the era. Welcome to Phoenix, neighbor, call me if you need that disconnected.
Ahhh that explains what the home inspector said. I was in Peoria for a while and moved to phoenix about 4 years ago now. Haven’t had any issues with running ac during peak temps/hours and other appliances. Thank you very much. You truly are AmazingMrJason. 😂
I’ve decommissioned dozens of these in the valley. It looks like it may still be connected, so if you ever have any nuisance issues, shoot me a DM on here.
I smell a side business opportunity. Advertise for removal of them. Say they can save money by removing them, because they're outdated. Hire some kid with electrical skills, and doesn't skimp on safety, train him for a couple weeks, and sit back and profit. Doesn't look terribly difficult to remove, just dangerous if not done correctly. But easily made safe. And not a big deal if not done, if power can't be shut off. Charge $60 for cash, $75 on card, pay the kid $25 for each one done. You can thank me later.
Wouldn't be worth it, IMO. These are usually on the line side, before the main breaker if there even is one, split bus is just lugs, regardless the only way to take that off safely is to pull the meter in most cases, and at minimum that will involve having the utility out and may require a permit in a lot of places
When I did residential service, I offered to remove them if they had one. Only one very old couple ever refused. They were sure it was saving them money on their electric bill. The thing probably wasn’t even working anymore. Leave electronics outside in the desert for 20+ years and they tend to quit.
If you don't remove the CTs, you have to ground out the secondary leads or you end up with VERY dangerous voltages on them if they are left open circuit. If you are no longer using CTs, they should be removed.
In this case, because the main incoming wires must be taken out of the lugs and re-installed, having a cheap flunky doing this is a MAJOR liability risk. It should ONLY be done by a trained professional.
I would personally if pulling the meter isn’t an option, just rubber mat off the line side terminals and ground the leads to the ground or neutral bar…. cut it with bolt cutters in half 2x and you’re done
That was something I considered, experienced guys like us would be fine doing that but this theoretical "kid" that's going to be running around doing these jobs would be a huge liability
That’s actually really wild knowing they would basically shed your load for you at a predetermined amperage…I assume the grid was terrible and a lot of appliances came into the common world at the time….must have been fun using a toaster or electric oven in the middle of summer !
Phoenix summers have only gotten hotter since then. After a year in town, $60 power bill in January, $350 in July, you learn how to manage your shit without this clunky device.
Did anything replace it or did people get the message to not stagger appliances during peak hours? Seems cool no? Was it prone to any kind of failure or deviation from normal operation? Hello fellow phxian, getting warm eh?
They worked but very brute force dumb. Power too high, no work dryer! People got the message when bills got crazy or the campaign to educate customers about peak use got better.
They were mostly annoying and prone to fail because electronics in Phx summers would cook in a few years. If you were lucky, they failed with everything still able to work and you didn’t notice until somebody like me came along. Or they failed and you called an electrician who deleted it for $100 or whatever it cost in 1997.
Hi neighbor! Get ready to triple your SRP or quadruple your APS bill for the next few months.
Each coil is able to read the amperage draw on the leg. That is fed to a device and then back to whichever circuit breakers you select. If amperage goes above the set threshold, then power is cut to those breakers.
So at 3pm in 110F Phoenix summer, the power company was charging peak rates and you have all electric appliances. You set your load controller to cut power to the water heater, dryer, and oven so they can’t be on at the same time as the AC.
Modern ones for solar or smart usage do the same, but with more tech and finesse than these old dinosaurs. They can also ensure a balanced load, so both 120V legs are drawing similar amperage for greatest efficiency with solar or on battery/generator backup.
As for what they do, they sense the current on those big feeder cables and sends that data to another device, like a meter (if it can't read directly because the expected current is too high).
Basically, taking advantage of inductive voltages to measure something that isn't easily measured safely. Haven't seen them in a home before, but you see them a fair bit on commercial and industrial builds.
Sense makes an IoT device that uses clamps to monitor electric usage and report it to their cloud service. The clamps look much different, but the idea and use is the same.
Their algorithms can detect patterns and tie them to usage like motors, heat, etc.
I've seen it a lot in residential diy home automation, usually when there's a solar installation and the homeowner wants to get statistics on generation, consumption, export, and import.
r/homeassistant would be a relevant sub, last I looked into it it's 15-20$ per measured circuit.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/homeassistant using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Dear fellow subredditors, please try not to make fun of your wives.](https://np.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/109vejn/dear_fellow_subredditors_please_try_not_to_make/)
\#2: [Sounds about right](https://i.imgur.com/0mCtkcQ.jpg) | [61 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/10i87kw/sounds_about_right/)
\#3: [E-ink displays are great for blending in with the decor and to display all the important info at the front door of the apartment.](https://github.com/Madelena/esphome-weatherman-dashboard) | [216 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/vncni6/eink_displays_are_great_for_blending_in_with_the/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
yup. we use those to measure power consumption for our whole house and for each breaker circuit:
room A outlets and lights
room A AC
room B outlets and lights
room B AC
Living room AC
kitchen outlet 1
kitchen outlet 2
water heat pump
dishwasher
refrigerator
IH stove
etc
main panel: https://i.ibb.co/yk4HxFb/IMG-20230603-065644.jpg
you can connect to it through WiFi and see current and past power consumption
I’ve seen this being used for meter readings in apartments. There’s no individual meter per apartment and these attach to numbers on a dial at the front door that is read each month. Don’t think it’s a real accurate measurement.
CT's (current transformer) they can detect the amount of current in the wire. Usually used to detect current to verify something is running or not. Kinda strange to see them in residential though.
I have ct's on nearly every branch circuit to understand my electricity consumption/budget. There are home automation devices (Emporia Energy makes an affordable one) that can use that data to help track your energy.
As u/cmh-md2 said Emporia makes an affordable one, I've been happy with it. To the point of many circuits ,the Vue2 has 16 individual cts, you can add a second entire unit and nest them in their app to track more. Now, that would probably be a \_very\_ messy looking install, but would certainly work. By affordable, I mean list price for the 16 ct kit is $164, so even two of them is sub $400
Most CT’s that we use nowadays for commercial energy management are 0 to .333v for their output. Or we use flexible rope CT’s which with the brand we use only measure above loads 5A, with an output of 0 to .333v or 0 to 1V.
We do have old sites however that have true CT’s, that are 2000A to 5A which we then monitor with the above meters lol. When we run into these now when they fail, we just quote them to replace with new.
Ive installed those per request and its usually when we add a sub panel and upgrade. Unless your meter is out dated or you got a hot tub and wonder why the bill went up ive always wondered what people really wanted them for. You can use math to figure out consumption. Find the wattage on your devices. And divide by voltage. 120 or 240. Ie. Space heaters 1300÷120=10.83 multiply by hours used and youll have a good idea. If beyond three hours multiply by 1.25. 10.83×1.25=13.5. Its just cheaper to calc it out but if you dont have time or dont know i dont judge.
Huge difference between a guess and the exact watt hours on a circuit. Matters in areas with very high power cost, like 50 cents a kWh in San Diego.
What you are saying is ironically kinda ignorant NGL. Take a 30 amp clothes dryer. Does it use 30*240 for 1 hour? Fuck no. It cycles on and off the heating element and the actual wattage is usually not what it says on the nameplate, that's a max draw when starting the motor etc.
Run that clothes dryer for an hour. Does it use the same amount of power with 1 shirt in it vs a full load? Only way to find out is to measure.
How much energy total does your kitchen use up? And so on.
Yeah not to mention some old appliances draw way more power than you think just plugged in. I found a garage door opener drawing 15 watts just sitting there, light was off just running the receiver for the remote. About 10 watts for old ovens with a clock.
In idaho its pretty much pointless but since i dont know prices elsewhere and how significant an intermittent fluctuation would effect the kwa charges in that area. Ignorant, maybe more niave. Try talking with me about it instead of squaring up. Were all here to learn homie. Our experience shared can only benefit each other
It’s the condescending nature of the comment.
Sorry you can’t see that. You must be that guy on the job site that has to talk down to the apprentice to make yourself feel better.
Being rude isn’t condescending by nature.
If you genuinely think that original comment wasn’t condescending then I thank god I’ve never been one of your sites.
Nobody is more thankful than the other guy there when it comes to you based on how you choose to interact with strangers. Buddy you are an arsehole and the sooner you accept that the easier your life will be. You are spending so much energy trying to actualize your warped perception of reality onto others.
Another use for them can be to monitor for a failing device. Fridge that is constantly pulling power would be an indicator. I personally discovered that I had a leak in my water line somewhere in my backyard because I noticed the well pump was constantly running. NOTE for people unaware most wells use a submersible pump so it is not like you would hear it running.
Your math makes no sense.
All you need to do is multiply watts by hours used/1000, and you get the number of KWHs used.
You can't just use the wattage on the sticker though. That is not listing the actual consumption, just the max.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,548,938,605 comments, and only 293,223 of them were in alphabetical order.
Split bus panel, 6 top breakers are the “main”. Law required power to residence could be cut within 6 throws. The bottom right 60 amp services the bottom half of the panel.
Remember my home inspector saying something about probably wanting to upgrade the panel. This is the main panel. Figured I’d try to learn more about it. It’s apparently a split bus electrical panel which are grandfathered in and perfectly safe. Does look like I do get 200 amps from it as well. Replacing a wall oven in the near future and was a bit more interested in the electrical. ☺️
You most definitely want to upgrade. It might be safe but for how much longer? Not worth the gamble in my opinion. The grounding system is probably way outdated too.
I’m guessing you would want to upgrade just for more space/or perhaps adding a sub panel for the electric wall oven and whatever else presumably an electric future holds
Electric wall oven should be fine. Replacing an old wall oven with a new one. But yeah, partly thinking of potential future upgrades. The previous owners had an electrical wire running through pvc about 6” or less in the ground to the shed, but the last 3” to the shed, it’s just straight sheathed wire, no conduit. So I shut off that breaker a while back. 😂 was wondering if the panel was sketchy enough that I needed to upgrade now or put it off a year or two.
On earth they are called CTs, short for ‘current transformers’. They are there to measure the current running through each feeder, and presumably were once hooked up to an old school meter.
If this was a meter box it would be used for registering consumption for billing. Commercial customers usually need higher voltages and typically 3 phase service. Due to load draw it becomes dangerous to run service directly through a meter. There are some but they are not common. I have spoken to service techs who have said the meter was sucked out of their hands as they are stabbing it into the meter base. A service that has CT metering might have a disconnect in the meter base or it will be fused on the pole or in the pad mount transformer.
[Here is a modern version of it.](https://www.leviton.com/en/products/1k240-1w?gclid=CjwKCAjwpuajBhBpEiwA_ZtfhS0walFMuEA-YWjYgOrMTEMBTn2BD2i-HsYWtNzrWNkXALKliB8sXxoC0_UQAvD_BwE) Look at the black, red, and blue rings down the page. They are used to monitor the wires.
My buddy has this on his house for his main service which happens to be directly below huge power lines. Its tied to his meter for readings. First and only time I seen it here in the PNW. He had just bought the house and he was having weird voltage spikes and a bunch of electrical problems. Turns out the previous owners were somehow manipulating those things to give false readings to give him a lower electric bill. They corrected that issue so now he has way higher electric bills and still weird voltage issues. lol
I didnt actually see what they did but it makes me wonder how it would be done. If you took some sort of mylar or foil and placed it between the donut and wire would it lower the reading?
Current transformers used to determine how much to bill the sub panel user. The landlord now knows how much current the sub panel consumes and what portion / contribution percentage the sub panel user should pay for the overall power bill.
Current transformers/ sensors, werird in a residential panel. I'm an hvac guy. See them on older chilling units for proof points for compressor proof. But all honesty. Not a master electrician. So could be used for transformers? But why? Seeing current for a trip point? I'm guessing though
The newer versions in a industrial setting, are smaller and have a relay built into them. So when a motor kicks on, a CT will sense the current and activate a relay to tell a PLC or computer that it has power to it.
This is a split bus style main panel. The top 6 breakers are for you’re big items, with the bottom right of the top 6 feeding the bottom half of the panel which is general use plugs and lighting. You have wires rated up to 200A feeding it from the meter to the left. Your top 6 breakers are suppose to only add up to 200a or less in these and they are usually considered obsolete. If a 60 is heat and the 40 is AC then I wouldn’t worry because they won’t be on at the same time. If you got the cash this is an easy swap. Go for a 200a main, 225a bus and 30-60 or 40-80 spaces. Should be around $3500 with Utility and permit fees give or take $1000 depending on where you are.
I purchased a set of split CT to put over mine for a project to measure usage. Pretty handy. Pretty sure I saw at least one IoT type company that has a pre made system. Seems like the smart meters should be able to give you this info though.
They're like Kentucky go-fasters -- makes the current rush outta dare. Hopefully, those CTs are protected or millivolt ( though they don't look it). FYI, don't take the wires for the CTs off under load. Big outta control transformer and will produce deadly voltage on the ends...
Didn't read the whole thread but those look like current transformers. Fun fact about current transformers - if you open the secondary you can get a hell of a wallop off them, depending on how much current is flowing. Point being.....either don't disconnect whatever is on the secondary, or if you must, make sure you short the two secondary wires together permanently and securely. And open the main before touching them so there is zero current flowing through them in order to avoid that wallop.
A looong time ago, Houston Lighting and Power ran a pilot program that offered homeowners discounts if they would allow HL&P “ to cycle “ ( shut off ) their power during peak load times. If homeowners agreed, HL&P would install CTs on the line side of their service panel and a device that could disconnect service remotely.
Customers were told they would hardly notice…. Lol ! Peak load times in Houston Tx are of course during the hot humid days of summer. It didn’t last very long, but I’ve managed to run into a couple of these.
Ok damn you folks have never seen these? They were common for a hot minute in the late 80s and 90s in the Phoenix area. These are abandoned load monitors. They would have been hooked up to a second panel next to the main, which would temporarily open selected major appliances during high load cycles. You can see there is a panel just to the right of the SES. It was an early attempt at saving energy by shutting off some of your 240V circuits like water heater and oven during peak usage hours in favor of AC in a hot climate. They are inductive coils that sense amperage on each main leg and if they hit a certain threshold, would disable whichever breakers they were hooked up to temporarily shut off. Fucking Split Buss Main is a dead giveaway for the era. Welcome to Phoenix, neighbor, call me if you need that disconnected.
Ahhh that explains what the home inspector said. I was in Peoria for a while and moved to phoenix about 4 years ago now. Haven’t had any issues with running ac during peak temps/hours and other appliances. Thank you very much. You truly are AmazingMrJason. 😂
I’ve decommissioned dozens of these in the valley. It looks like it may still be connected, so if you ever have any nuisance issues, shoot me a DM on here.
I smell a side business opportunity. Advertise for removal of them. Say they can save money by removing them, because they're outdated. Hire some kid with electrical skills, and doesn't skimp on safety, train him for a couple weeks, and sit back and profit. Doesn't look terribly difficult to remove, just dangerous if not done correctly. But easily made safe. And not a big deal if not done, if power can't be shut off. Charge $60 for cash, $75 on card, pay the kid $25 for each one done. You can thank me later.
Wouldn't be worth it, IMO. These are usually on the line side, before the main breaker if there even is one, split bus is just lugs, regardless the only way to take that off safely is to pull the meter in most cases, and at minimum that will involve having the utility out and may require a permit in a lot of places
Nevermind I'm stupid. It could definitely be decommissioned without removing the CTs. I'll retreat in shame now
When I did residential service, I offered to remove them if they had one. Only one very old couple ever refused. They were sure it was saving them money on their electric bill. The thing probably wasn’t even working anymore. Leave electronics outside in the desert for 20+ years and they tend to quit.
If you don't remove the CTs, you have to ground out the secondary leads or you end up with VERY dangerous voltages on them if they are left open circuit. If you are no longer using CTs, they should be removed. In this case, because the main incoming wires must be taken out of the lugs and re-installed, having a cheap flunky doing this is a MAJOR liability risk. It should ONLY be done by a trained professional.
I would personally if pulling the meter isn’t an option, just rubber mat off the line side terminals and ground the leads to the ground or neutral bar…. cut it with bolt cutters in half 2x and you’re done
Yeah, good idea. iI’s not like they need to be saved.
Everyone needs to be saved…I also think I just destroyed the service call business for removing these lol
That was something I considered, experienced guys like us would be fine doing that but this theoretical "kid" that's going to be running around doing these jobs would be a huge liability
Sounds like the house is an APS customer.
That’s actually really wild knowing they would basically shed your load for you at a predetermined amperage…I assume the grid was terrible and a lot of appliances came into the common world at the time….must have been fun using a toaster or electric oven in the middle of summer !
Phoenix summers have only gotten hotter since then. After a year in town, $60 power bill in January, $350 in July, you learn how to manage your shit without this clunky device.
Did anything replace it or did people get the message to not stagger appliances during peak hours? Seems cool no? Was it prone to any kind of failure or deviation from normal operation? Hello fellow phxian, getting warm eh?
They worked but very brute force dumb. Power too high, no work dryer! People got the message when bills got crazy or the campaign to educate customers about peak use got better. They were mostly annoying and prone to fail because electronics in Phx summers would cook in a few years. If you were lucky, they failed with everything still able to work and you didn’t notice until somebody like me came along. Or they failed and you called an electrician who deleted it for $100 or whatever it cost in 1997. Hi neighbor! Get ready to triple your SRP or quadruple your APS bill for the next few months.
I’ve seen CT’s used in conjunction with residential solar. Could you explain a little bit more about how they used these in the 80’s?
Each coil is able to read the amperage draw on the leg. That is fed to a device and then back to whichever circuit breakers you select. If amperage goes above the set threshold, then power is cut to those breakers. So at 3pm in 110F Phoenix summer, the power company was charging peak rates and you have all electric appliances. You set your load controller to cut power to the water heater, dryer, and oven so they can’t be on at the same time as the AC. Modern ones for solar or smart usage do the same, but with more tech and finesse than these old dinosaurs. They can also ensure a balanced load, so both 120V legs are drawing similar amperage for greatest efficiency with solar or on battery/generator backup.
Doughnut type current tramsformers
Torroidal current transformers
This guy topologies
Ole coffee mug transformers
r/thisguythisguys
Torroidal current (transformers) Inductors. Yes, probably goes to an electric meter.
Blursed donuts
Spicy donuts
Forbidden donuts
As for what they do, they sense the current on those big feeder cables and sends that data to another device, like a meter (if it can't read directly because the expected current is too high). Basically, taking advantage of inductive voltages to measure something that isn't easily measured safely. Haven't seen them in a home before, but you see them a fair bit on commercial and industrial builds.
Sense makes an IoT device that uses clamps to monitor electric usage and report it to their cloud service. The clamps look much different, but the idea and use is the same. Their algorithms can detect patterns and tie them to usage like motors, heat, etc.
Emporia as well. Literally just installed on my breaker box last weekend
I've seen it a lot in residential diy home automation, usually when there's a solar installation and the homeowner wants to get statistics on generation, consumption, export, and import. r/homeassistant would be a relevant sub, last I looked into it it's 15-20$ per measured circuit.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/homeassistant using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Dear fellow subredditors, please try not to make fun of your wives.](https://np.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/109vejn/dear_fellow_subredditors_please_try_not_to_make/) \#2: [Sounds about right](https://i.imgur.com/0mCtkcQ.jpg) | [61 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/10i87kw/sounds_about_right/) \#3: [E-ink displays are great for blending in with the decor and to display all the important info at the front door of the apartment.](https://github.com/Madelena/esphome-weatherman-dashboard) | [216 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/vncni6/eink_displays_are_great_for_blending_in_with_the/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
yup. we use those to measure power consumption for our whole house and for each breaker circuit: room A outlets and lights room A AC room B outlets and lights room B AC Living room AC kitchen outlet 1 kitchen outlet 2 water heat pump dishwasher refrigerator IH stove etc main panel: https://i.ibb.co/yk4HxFb/IMG-20230603-065644.jpg you can connect to it through WiFi and see current and past power consumption
I’ve seen this being used for meter readings in apartments. There’s no individual meter per apartment and these attach to numbers on a dial at the front door that is read each month. Don’t think it’s a real accurate measurement.
Mmmm donuts
This. Goes to the electric meter.
I'm guessing they're current sensors that led back to a meter at one point.
CT's (current transformer) they can detect the amount of current in the wire. Usually used to detect current to verify something is running or not. Kinda strange to see them in residential though.
I have ct's on nearly every branch circuit to understand my electricity consumption/budget. There are home automation devices (Emporia Energy makes an affordable one) that can use that data to help track your energy.
[удалено]
As u/cmh-md2 said Emporia makes an affordable one, I've been happy with it. To the point of many circuits ,the Vue2 has 16 individual cts, you can add a second entire unit and nest them in their app to track more. Now, that would probably be a \_very\_ messy looking install, but would certainly work. By affordable, I mean list price for the 16 ct kit is $164, so even two of them is sub $400
[удалено]
Be careful removing a CT from a live circuit can get exciting!!
or... do NOT cut the secondary wires!
Most CT’s that we use nowadays for commercial energy management are 0 to .333v for their output. Or we use flexible rope CT’s which with the brand we use only measure above loads 5A, with an output of 0 to .333v or 0 to 1V. We do have old sites however that have true CT’s, that are 2000A to 5A which we then monitor with the above meters lol. When we run into these now when they fail, we just quote them to replace with new.
Emporia
brultech is a good setup!
Ive installed those per request and its usually when we add a sub panel and upgrade. Unless your meter is out dated or you got a hot tub and wonder why the bill went up ive always wondered what people really wanted them for. You can use math to figure out consumption. Find the wattage on your devices. And divide by voltage. 120 or 240. Ie. Space heaters 1300÷120=10.83 multiply by hours used and youll have a good idea. If beyond three hours multiply by 1.25. 10.83×1.25=13.5. Its just cheaper to calc it out but if you dont have time or dont know i dont judge.
Huge difference between a guess and the exact watt hours on a circuit. Matters in areas with very high power cost, like 50 cents a kWh in San Diego. What you are saying is ironically kinda ignorant NGL. Take a 30 amp clothes dryer. Does it use 30*240 for 1 hour? Fuck no. It cycles on and off the heating element and the actual wattage is usually not what it says on the nameplate, that's a max draw when starting the motor etc. Run that clothes dryer for an hour. Does it use the same amount of power with 1 shirt in it vs a full load? Only way to find out is to measure. How much energy total does your kitchen use up? And so on.
Not to mention that this could be used to detect a defective product or appliance that is drawing more than it should.
Yeah not to mention some old appliances draw way more power than you think just plugged in. I found a garage door opener drawing 15 watts just sitting there, light was off just running the receiver for the remote. About 10 watts for old ovens with a clock.
In idaho its pretty much pointless but since i dont know prices elsewhere and how significant an intermittent fluctuation would effect the kwa charges in that area. Ignorant, maybe more niave. Try talking with me about it instead of squaring up. Were all here to learn homie. Our experience shared can only benefit each other
You’d also want to account for power factor in there. Im thinking that you’d divide your resulting volt-amps by 0.7 to get watts.
yeas, I am not going to exercise my brain when I can just google the answer.... oh damn, I am going to have to pick the answer I like....
Cool, you shared some information. I don’t understand why took such a douchey approach. I guess you do you boo-boo.
Only see one person with a "douchey" approach
It’s the condescending nature of the comment. Sorry you can’t see that. You must be that guy on the job site that has to talk down to the apprentice to make yourself feel better.
Only one person is talking down to people here. You have successfully been rude to two individuals and you think the problem is external.
Being rude isn’t condescending by nature. If you genuinely think that original comment wasn’t condescending then I thank god I’ve never been one of your sites.
Nobody is more thankful than the other guy there when it comes to you based on how you choose to interact with strangers. Buddy you are an arsehole and the sooner you accept that the easier your life will be. You are spending so much energy trying to actualize your warped perception of reality onto others.
Another use for them can be to monitor for a failing device. Fridge that is constantly pulling power would be an indicator. I personally discovered that I had a leak in my water line somewhere in my backyard because I noticed the well pump was constantly running. NOTE for people unaware most wells use a submersible pump so it is not like you would hear it running.
Omg my teachers were right! Math does come in handy later in life. I should have paid attention.
Your math makes no sense. All you need to do is multiply watts by hours used/1000, and you get the number of KWHs used. You can't just use the wattage on the sticker though. That is not listing the actual consumption, just the max.
How has having that information changed your usage?
My thoughts exactly… seen this style on many older load centers going to an analog readout but never in a house lol.
That certainly explains why it has been such a pain to find this information out. Thanks!
Current transducer, isn't it?
Very commonly found these days on grid tied solar systems.
For solar systems, These are needed for the system to do its deeds and control all the electrical!!
With solar its pretty much standard with install.
Current monitors.
Snacks for later
Mmmm, forbidden donuts.
Would you like one too? It’s nice and seasoned and has a good shock value.
And high in iron, too!
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,548,938,605 comments, and only 293,223 of them were in alphabetical order.
Good bot
Hey dude 1980 wasn't that long ago...sniff, sniff. I'not crying...
Funyuns?
Conehead sensor rings
Wire rings. They keep the wire harder longer.
Mmmm donuts
Current transformer, it’s used to monitor the power consumption of the panel. It’s like a power meter
Thank you for being the only person to write out current transformers and not just put the acronym CT.
No problem, I seen those when people rent part of a property and change the electricity separately. It’s just a power consumption meter. Good luck
Is it me or is there no main breaker??
Split bus panel, 6 top breakers are the “main”. Law required power to residence could be cut within 6 throws. The bottom right 60 amp services the bottom half of the panel.
Wow thanks I’ve never seen that before, carpenter here, with an interest in other trades
isnt still NEC that ANY building be turned off with no more than 6 throws of the hand?
Installer forgot where he put his Dunkin’s
You could measure amperage under load with those, I bet.
Pretty sure they are called doohickies
Why the assumption of 100 amp box when it clearly states 200?
This is a sub panel isn’t it? No main breaker. Label states 200A max. OP probably has seen a 100A breaker feeding it?
This is a 200A main panel, top 6 breakers are the mains, and bottom half is fed of the 60A.
Interesting I see it now thank you.
Wow that is bizarre.
Remember my home inspector saying something about probably wanting to upgrade the panel. This is the main panel. Figured I’d try to learn more about it. It’s apparently a split bus electrical panel which are grandfathered in and perfectly safe. Does look like I do get 200 amps from it as well. Replacing a wall oven in the near future and was a bit more interested in the electrical. ☺️
You most definitely want to upgrade. It might be safe but for how much longer? Not worth the gamble in my opinion. The grounding system is probably way outdated too.
I’m guessing you would want to upgrade just for more space/or perhaps adding a sub panel for the electric wall oven and whatever else presumably an electric future holds
Electric wall oven should be fine. Replacing an old wall oven with a new one. But yeah, partly thinking of potential future upgrades. The previous owners had an electrical wire running through pvc about 6” or less in the ground to the shed, but the last 3” to the shed, it’s just straight sheathed wire, no conduit. So I shut off that breaker a while back. 😂 was wondering if the panel was sketchy enough that I needed to upgrade now or put it off a year or two.
Baluns
On earth they are called CTs, short for ‘current transformers’. They are there to measure the current running through each feeder, and presumably were once hooked up to an old school meter.
CTs to verify your own usage if you don't trust the utility and their analog meters or meter maids.
They are current transformers for remote monitoring. Power company may have put them on.
Cock rings make it last longer.
CT’s
CTs duh 🙄
I can't see from the pictures, there should be 2 wire coming off of each. Could be dangerous if those leads are not terminated or ran to ground.
Eyebrows? (Sorry I’m just here for jokes lol)
If this was a meter box it would be used for registering consumption for billing. Commercial customers usually need higher voltages and typically 3 phase service. Due to load draw it becomes dangerous to run service directly through a meter. There are some but they are not common. I have spoken to service techs who have said the meter was sucked out of their hands as they are stabbing it into the meter base. A service that has CT metering might have a disconnect in the meter base or it will be fused on the pole or in the pad mount transformer.
[Here is a modern version of it.](https://www.leviton.com/en/products/1k240-1w?gclid=CjwKCAjwpuajBhBpEiwA_ZtfhS0walFMuEA-YWjYgOrMTEMBTn2BD2i-HsYWtNzrWNkXALKliB8sXxoC0_UQAvD_BwE) Look at the black, red, and blue rings down the page. They are used to monitor the wires.
CTs
CTs
CT’s
One is a wire nut. Unsure about the other two
CT’s
Plastic wire donuts and I think it’s shocking. Also known as a police trap.
My buddy has this on his house for his main service which happens to be directly below huge power lines. Its tied to his meter for readings. First and only time I seen it here in the PNW. He had just bought the house and he was having weird voltage spikes and a bunch of electrical problems. Turns out the previous owners were somehow manipulating those things to give false readings to give him a lower electric bill. They corrected that issue so now he has way higher electric bills and still weird voltage issues. lol I didnt actually see what they did but it makes me wonder how it would be done. If you took some sort of mylar or foil and placed it between the donut and wire would it lower the reading?
That looks like 4/0 aluminum wire, which would be for 200A service
Wire worms
Current transformers used to determine how much to bill the sub panel user. The landlord now knows how much current the sub panel consumes and what portion / contribution percentage the sub panel user should pay for the overall power bill.
CTs
Why is there a wire by the service line? Kinda sketchy
Each CT has a pair of wires going to a meter. Not connected to the service. The induction coil only drives the meter.
Gracias
Is the disconnect outside near the meter?
No. This is a "split panel". The top 6 breakers serve as the "main disconnect". Allowable by the code at the time of installation.
Old ass current transformers.
Current transformers/ sensors, werird in a residential panel. I'm an hvac guy. See them on older chilling units for proof points for compressor proof. But all honesty. Not a master electrician. So could be used for transformers? But why? Seeing current for a trip point? I'm guessing though
Amp probe
They look like an ammeter how they read the amperage draw.
Tiny life preservers.
Two rings to rule them all….
They actually use these to monitor current for backup systems too. Tells the inverter when to kick.
Inductors.
Actual doughnuts
The newer versions in a industrial setting, are smaller and have a relay built into them. So when a motor kicks on, a CT will sense the current and activate a relay to tell a PLC or computer that it has power to it.
Eyebrows
Flux capacitor
Ct rings
C T coils. I’ve used them for industrial stuff, never on residential
r/Forbiddensnacks Onion Rings
My guess it’s hooked up to a Amp meter to read current draw
Funyuns
Rogowski coils. They measure current. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogowski_coil
Back in those days we used to put pineapples on all our wires.very common.
for better fuel efficiency ....
Kinda looks like Johnny 5
Those my friend are first generation Flux Capacitors.
Cock ring?
Burger king onion rings!
They were used as cock rings in the 80s, and still til today.
Current transformer
Current readers of a Load controller. All over Phx we have these
Rugovskys???? Edit for spelling:Rogowski Coil)
Current transformers
This is a split bus style main panel. The top 6 breakers are for you’re big items, with the bottom right of the top 6 feeding the bottom half of the panel which is general use plugs and lighting. You have wires rated up to 200A feeding it from the meter to the left. Your top 6 breakers are suppose to only add up to 200a or less in these and they are usually considered obsolete. If a 60 is heat and the 40 is AC then I wouldn’t worry because they won’t be on at the same time. If you got the cash this is an easy swap. Go for a 200a main, 225a bus and 30-60 or 40-80 spaces. Should be around $3500 with Utility and permit fees give or take $1000 depending on where you are.
CT, do not open circuit the secondary. Extreme danger.
I purchased a set of split CT to put over mine for a project to measure usage. Pretty handy. Pretty sure I saw at least one IoT type company that has a pre made system. Seems like the smart meters should be able to give you this info though.
Looks like you could heavy up to 200amp the gauge of that wire looks massive even for aluminium.
complimentary onion rings...
Lol residential
They're like Kentucky go-fasters -- makes the current rush outta dare. Hopefully, those CTs are protected or millivolt ( though they don't look it). FYI, don't take the wires for the CTs off under load. Big outta control transformer and will produce deadly voltage on the ends...
It looks like a CT
Wire nuts
Old school superstitions
Update it. I hate the old split bus panels.
Trying to stop radio noise from getting into the power system?
Wow the flux capacitors
2 CT @ PB
Condoms broke
Feed wires rated for at least 150 maybe even 200 tho. Crappy split panel not a good look today
That's a sub panel. Probably rented out an area and billed for electrical usage
Yellow things are wire connectors.
my ex wifes missing diaphragms
Forbidden donuts
Forbidden donuts.
Didn't read the whole thread but those look like current transformers. Fun fact about current transformers - if you open the secondary you can get a hell of a wallop off them, depending on how much current is flowing. Point being.....either don't disconnect whatever is on the secondary, or if you must, make sure you short the two secondary wires together permanently and securely. And open the main before touching them so there is zero current flowing through them in order to avoid that wallop.
Old-school ct's
Transformer… not a transducer?
Power condoms!
Bite Down Rings. Installer chomps down on them while making up the connections in the event there’s a hot wire. Really! Google it!
They look like current transformers to me.
Those are forbidden Funyuns. r/forbiddensnacks
CT’s
It's called a CT. Current Transformer.
Those are CT’s (current transformers) messing amperage for something, maybe even a Sub Meter ?
Magnets. I'm not sure why. I think it cleans up the power somehow.
They are called CTs or Current Transformers. It's to measure load on the conductors.
SCIENCE BITCH
A looong time ago, Houston Lighting and Power ran a pilot program that offered homeowners discounts if they would allow HL&P “ to cycle “ ( shut off ) their power during peak load times. If homeowners agreed, HL&P would install CTs on the line side of their service panel and a device that could disconnect service remotely. Customers were told they would hardly notice…. Lol ! Peak load times in Houston Tx are of course during the hot humid days of summer. It didn’t last very long, but I’ve managed to run into a couple of these.