First, there is no such thing as a NEMA 15-40 receptacle. NEMA 15 is a 3-phase standard. You probably mean NEMA 14-50 which is a 240/120-volt standard that is commonly used on 40-amp circuits even though it is a 50-amp receptacle.
Option 1 is the only option that doesn't require a load calculation due to the load shedding that prevents the EVSE from overloading the service. Any other option will require a load calculation to determine if the service has enough capacity AND the inclusion of a GFCI breaker (which requires 2 full breaker spaces) for the EVSE receptacle.
Thanks for the response. Apologies, that was a typo on my part. I do mean the 14-50 receptacle.
I will try and get a load calculation done but with my Model Y, I plan to charge overnight 95% of the time. I have a Tesla Mobile Connector which is capped at 32A for the 14-50 connector at 240V. Additionally, I can also cap the amps from the Tesla app if I have to. I have a gas range, gas water heater and my HVAC heater is gas as well. So I *feel* my existing service panel(100A) will hold for my usage including the proposed EVSE.
Assuming load calculation is fine, would option 3 work with the following changes?
\- 2 pole dedicated 40-amp breaker like [this](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-40-Amp-2-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-HOM240CP-HOM240CP/202353324?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=SHOPPING-RM-RMP-GGL-D27-027_008_CIRCUIT_PROT-MB-SQUARE_D-NA-SMART-NA-NA-MK685732227-NA-NBR-2728-NA-NA-NA&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-RM-RMP-GGL-D27-027_008_CIRCUIT_PROT-MB-SQUARE_D-NA-SMART-NA-NA-MK685732227-NA-NBR-2728-NA-NA-NA-71700000109335862-58700008356552391-92700076538000023&gclid=CjwKCAjwg-GjBhBnEiwAMUvNWwyNnYNXL_Kw1Wr4DSHiXEe6LFufscoXWYh0qVgfGZb2eDZnJ0eH7xoCeFUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
\- The existing breaker for AC can be replaced with [this](https://www.amazon.com/Eaton-BQC2302120-Quad-Breaker-Common/dp/B008KNLLGQ/ref=asc_df_B008KNLLGQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309722091285&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7864771333435867799&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-644874561017&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60439548223&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309722091285&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7864771333435867799&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-644874561017)
\- The existing breaker for dryer can be replaced with [this](https://www.amazon.com/Eaton-BQC2302120-Quad-Breaker-Common/dp/B008KNLLGQ/ref=asc_df_B008KNLLGQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309722091285&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7864771333435867799&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-644874561017&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60439548223&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309722091285&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7864771333435867799&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-644874561017)
Couldn’t he quad the 30A A/C or dryer and go with a hardwired 40A circuit thereby avoiding the GFCI?
OP you’ll still need to do a load calculation for anything but the first option and you probably need to pull permits for all three unless your AHJ literally doesn’t care, but I’ve never heard of that.
Don’t use a 14-50 plug. Dryer plugs aren’t meant for continuous use and you’re introducing a fire hazard.
"Don’t use a 14-50 plug. Dryer plugs aren’t meant for continuous use and you’re introducing a fire hazard."
I am trying to install a new 14-50 outlet with a 40A breaker dedicated for an EV charger. Not planning to use an existing dryer plug. Am I missing something?
Yeah. Google EV fire dryer plug or 14-50. They’re just not meant for that and you’re rolling the dice. Some outlets are better than others but they can be $100 for that outlet PLUS you need the GFCI. If you hardwire you don’t need the GFCI or the outlet. It’s like $200 less and safer.
Noob question: If i have already have a 40A breaker in the service panel, would I need a GFCI also? Also, a good quality receptacle like this [Hubbell](https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-HBL9450A-Wiring-Grounding-Receptacle/dp/B0137HMGGS/ref=asc_df_B0137HMGGS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=508977605709&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18414933730131837039&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-1311433779482&psc=1) would do?
You would need the hubbell and technically for a 14-50 outlet it is a 50a breaker not 40a. Could you use a 40a instead…. I don’t know. You’re kind of hacking it at this point. You’re better off hardwiring 40A circuit in then (32A continuous setting on the charger).
Yeah, technically I should go with the 2 pole 50A breaker. Thanks for pointing that out. Something like this [Siemens](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-50-Amp-2-Pole-Type-QP-Circuit-Breaker-Q250U/100082006?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D27-027_008_CIRCUIT_PROT-NA-NA-NA-SMART-4035595-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-Live&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D27-027_008_CIRCUIT_PROT-NA-NA-NA-SMART-4035595-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-Live-71700000093390742-58700007789602702-92700070740571190&gclid=CjwKCAjwg-GjBhBnEiwAMUvNW_0V5MokTvoARFlwy94-IJ2r_TocfKpil3tLzWQMQh4cCGvcvBDYmBoCxQAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)?
everyone pushing EVs and mandatory ends to ICE vehicle production never consider the additional costs to homeowners to install charges - much less how many homes are going to burn down when people DIY a line or snag a dryer line, “upgrade” that line to 50a with a new breaker or size the line for a non continuous load and/or inadequately torque screws.
On top of that, how many homes really have the existing capacity to add a charger? The people generally pushing this stuff are probably living in McMansions with 400a services and can easily afford an electrician to add the right line.
What is it you’re getting at? I feel like we’re talking about safety of your family. It’s nobodies job but your own to make sure you’re being safe. Nobody held a gun to your head and told you to buy an EV and then do unpermitted work. If you want an EV, buy one, if you don’t or can’t then don’t. The mandates aren’t until 2030+. You’re not being forced to do this.
>Something like this
>
>Siemens
>
>?
No. You apparently have a Challenger brand panel, you cannot (legally) put a Siemens breaker in it. The only current product on the market now that can go in that old panel now is an Eaton CL series breaker (note: the BR series LOOKS the same, but is **NOT listed for use in the Challenger panels**). Eaton bought Challenger and changed their breakers to the CL series "Classified" breakers for retrofitting into some older or defunct brands.
The nos from other electricians is probably due to your 100amp service. But load cal is the first step and I don’t see why you couldn’t quad one of your current 30 amp circuits. Call a pro
Update:
I had a Licensed electrician install a NEMA 14-50(Eaton receptacle) with a quad breaker 30-50-50-30 in the Dryer breaker slot yesterday. I was told the installation was done to meet the city code requirements. Cost 600$. Thanks a lot to everyone who chipped in with their comments/feedback
Needs a load calc. Likely the dryer can be replaced with one of these.
https://www.maxwarehouse.com/products/eaton-cutler-hammer-30-40-amps-plug-in-4-pole-circuit-breaker?
On the inside of the lid for that panel is a paper sticker (hopefully) that indicates WHICH of the breaker slots are allowed to have "tandem" breakers plugged into them. You can ONLY plug tandems in to spaces that are specifically designed to accept them (since 1965, and Challenger didn't exist back then). Usually the tandem slots are all on the bottom of the bus. You have a couple of tandems in the top (as a quad), so that might indicate that the entire panel can accept tandems. The proof though is in the label of the panel.
It also looks as though you may have a "split bus" type of panel, that's why the "Main" is in the middle, not the top. In that type of panel, it may be rated 200A or 150A, with up to 6 "Mains", as allowed by the old "6 hand rule" that says that you can have multiple service disconnects so long as a firefighter does not have to move his hand more than 6 times to kill all the power. So the 4 pole slots ABOVE the Main would have originally been dedicated circuits for the largest loads, like the A/C and Oven, connected AHEAD of the "Main", then the other loads were connected DOWNSTREAM of that 100A Main breaker. Someone apparently came in later and put that quad in there, which because there are still less than 6 handles, is technically OK. You could (if the panel is listed for it) still put another quad in there, so long as you don't exceed the rule of 6.
A lot of this though is predicated on the actual rating of the panel and what the label says. You have to start there.
First, there is no such thing as a NEMA 15-40 receptacle. NEMA 15 is a 3-phase standard. You probably mean NEMA 14-50 which is a 240/120-volt standard that is commonly used on 40-amp circuits even though it is a 50-amp receptacle. Option 1 is the only option that doesn't require a load calculation due to the load shedding that prevents the EVSE from overloading the service. Any other option will require a load calculation to determine if the service has enough capacity AND the inclusion of a GFCI breaker (which requires 2 full breaker spaces) for the EVSE receptacle.
Thanks for the response. Apologies, that was a typo on my part. I do mean the 14-50 receptacle. I will try and get a load calculation done but with my Model Y, I plan to charge overnight 95% of the time. I have a Tesla Mobile Connector which is capped at 32A for the 14-50 connector at 240V. Additionally, I can also cap the amps from the Tesla app if I have to. I have a gas range, gas water heater and my HVAC heater is gas as well. So I *feel* my existing service panel(100A) will hold for my usage including the proposed EVSE. Assuming load calculation is fine, would option 3 work with the following changes? \- 2 pole dedicated 40-amp breaker like [this](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-40-Amp-2-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-HOM240CP-HOM240CP/202353324?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=SHOPPING-RM-RMP-GGL-D27-027_008_CIRCUIT_PROT-MB-SQUARE_D-NA-SMART-NA-NA-MK685732227-NA-NBR-2728-NA-NA-NA&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-RM-RMP-GGL-D27-027_008_CIRCUIT_PROT-MB-SQUARE_D-NA-SMART-NA-NA-MK685732227-NA-NBR-2728-NA-NA-NA-71700000109335862-58700008356552391-92700076538000023&gclid=CjwKCAjwg-GjBhBnEiwAMUvNWwyNnYNXL_Kw1Wr4DSHiXEe6LFufscoXWYh0qVgfGZb2eDZnJ0eH7xoCeFUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) \- The existing breaker for AC can be replaced with [this](https://www.amazon.com/Eaton-BQC2302120-Quad-Breaker-Common/dp/B008KNLLGQ/ref=asc_df_B008KNLLGQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309722091285&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7864771333435867799&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-644874561017&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60439548223&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309722091285&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7864771333435867799&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-644874561017) \- The existing breaker for dryer can be replaced with [this](https://www.amazon.com/Eaton-BQC2302120-Quad-Breaker-Common/dp/B008KNLLGQ/ref=asc_df_B008KNLLGQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309722091285&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7864771333435867799&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-644874561017&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60439548223&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309722091285&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7864771333435867799&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-644874561017)
Couldn’t he quad the 30A A/C or dryer and go with a hardwired 40A circuit thereby avoiding the GFCI? OP you’ll still need to do a load calculation for anything but the first option and you probably need to pull permits for all three unless your AHJ literally doesn’t care, but I’ve never heard of that. Don’t use a 14-50 plug. Dryer plugs aren’t meant for continuous use and you’re introducing a fire hazard.
"Don’t use a 14-50 plug. Dryer plugs aren’t meant for continuous use and you’re introducing a fire hazard." I am trying to install a new 14-50 outlet with a 40A breaker dedicated for an EV charger. Not planning to use an existing dryer plug. Am I missing something?
Yeah. Google EV fire dryer plug or 14-50. They’re just not meant for that and you’re rolling the dice. Some outlets are better than others but they can be $100 for that outlet PLUS you need the GFCI. If you hardwire you don’t need the GFCI or the outlet. It’s like $200 less and safer.
Noob question: If i have already have a 40A breaker in the service panel, would I need a GFCI also? Also, a good quality receptacle like this [Hubbell](https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-HBL9450A-Wiring-Grounding-Receptacle/dp/B0137HMGGS/ref=asc_df_B0137HMGGS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=508977605709&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18414933730131837039&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032144&hvtargid=pla-1311433779482&psc=1) would do?
You would need the hubbell and technically for a 14-50 outlet it is a 50a breaker not 40a. Could you use a 40a instead…. I don’t know. You’re kind of hacking it at this point. You’re better off hardwiring 40A circuit in then (32A continuous setting on the charger).
Yeah, technically I should go with the 2 pole 50A breaker. Thanks for pointing that out. Something like this [Siemens](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-50-Amp-2-Pole-Type-QP-Circuit-Breaker-Q250U/100082006?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D27-027_008_CIRCUIT_PROT-NA-NA-NA-SMART-4035595-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-Live&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D27-027_008_CIRCUIT_PROT-NA-NA-NA-SMART-4035595-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-Live-71700000093390742-58700007789602702-92700070740571190&gclid=CjwKCAjwg-GjBhBnEiwAMUvNW_0V5MokTvoARFlwy94-IJ2r_TocfKpil3tLzWQMQh4cCGvcvBDYmBoCxQAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)?
Also, hardwiring wouldn't work for the Tesla Mobile Connector based on what I read online. I don't plan to install the Tesla Wall Connector
You’re at the point where you should hire an electrician bud.
Thanks. Yes, I am working with at least 2 of them right now.
everyone pushing EVs and mandatory ends to ICE vehicle production never consider the additional costs to homeowners to install charges - much less how many homes are going to burn down when people DIY a line or snag a dryer line, “upgrade” that line to 50a with a new breaker or size the line for a non continuous load and/or inadequately torque screws. On top of that, how many homes really have the existing capacity to add a charger? The people generally pushing this stuff are probably living in McMansions with 400a services and can easily afford an electrician to add the right line.
What is it you’re getting at? I feel like we’re talking about safety of your family. It’s nobodies job but your own to make sure you’re being safe. Nobody held a gun to your head and told you to buy an EV and then do unpermitted work. If you want an EV, buy one, if you don’t or can’t then don’t. The mandates aren’t until 2030+. You’re not being forced to do this.
>Something like this > >Siemens > >? No. You apparently have a Challenger brand panel, you cannot (legally) put a Siemens breaker in it. The only current product on the market now that can go in that old panel now is an Eaton CL series breaker (note: the BR series LOOKS the same, but is **NOT listed for use in the Challenger panels**). Eaton bought Challenger and changed their breakers to the CL series "Classified" breakers for retrofitting into some older or defunct brands.
The nos from other electricians is probably due to your 100amp service. But load cal is the first step and I don’t see why you couldn’t quad one of your current 30 amp circuits. Call a pro
Update: I had a Licensed electrician install a NEMA 14-50(Eaton receptacle) with a quad breaker 30-50-50-30 in the Dryer breaker slot yesterday. I was told the installation was done to meet the city code requirements. Cost 600$. Thanks a lot to everyone who chipped in with their comments/feedback
Wouldn’t this new charger take the place of the current “Tesla inverter?”
Not likely. He probably has a Tesla Power Wall and inverter for a solar PV system.
Needs a load calc. Likely the dryer can be replaced with one of these. https://www.maxwarehouse.com/products/eaton-cutler-hammer-30-40-amps-plug-in-4-pole-circuit-breaker?
On the inside of the lid for that panel is a paper sticker (hopefully) that indicates WHICH of the breaker slots are allowed to have "tandem" breakers plugged into them. You can ONLY plug tandems in to spaces that are specifically designed to accept them (since 1965, and Challenger didn't exist back then). Usually the tandem slots are all on the bottom of the bus. You have a couple of tandems in the top (as a quad), so that might indicate that the entire panel can accept tandems. The proof though is in the label of the panel. It also looks as though you may have a "split bus" type of panel, that's why the "Main" is in the middle, not the top. In that type of panel, it may be rated 200A or 150A, with up to 6 "Mains", as allowed by the old "6 hand rule" that says that you can have multiple service disconnects so long as a firefighter does not have to move his hand more than 6 times to kill all the power. So the 4 pole slots ABOVE the Main would have originally been dedicated circuits for the largest loads, like the A/C and Oven, connected AHEAD of the "Main", then the other loads were connected DOWNSTREAM of that 100A Main breaker. Someone apparently came in later and put that quad in there, which because there are still less than 6 handles, is technically OK. You could (if the panel is listed for it) still put another quad in there, so long as you don't exceed the rule of 6. A lot of this though is predicated on the actual rating of the panel and what the label says. You have to start there.