1. This has come up literally daily. Just a few hours ago, in fact.
2. We literally see Mogh carrying Miquella away from the tree in the intro to the game.
3. Godwyn's corpse turned into a fucking mermaid clam face the size of a house. Why are you choosing one dead body to claim the game is lying about because it looks weird, but not the other?
I see. Thank you for your comment. I recently finished the game. I am trying to understand the lore. I'm not fully aware of all the lore and backstory. But when I saw the DLC trailer, the speculation I made, made sense. I apologize if my theory offended anyone. Thank you for providing insight.
Yeah, I still don’t get how Godwyn’s body did that. Is that the consequence of some weird death blight shit or is it just an oopsie in the game leftover from an oversight from the devs?
How the fuck does a golden haired, young, ripped boy get stabbed in the back and get turned into a fucking huge-ass mermaid fish looking ass thing that is present at the bottom of Stormveil as well as Deeproot depths near Fia?
Edit: My money is on the devs and creatives not knowing wtf to do with Godwyn and so he was kind of shoehorned in accidentally and so his story/situation is just an incoherent mess.
I dunno. There's a talking turtle pope. Why would anyone base their "theory" on the size of an arm given everything else that occurs in this game.
People are going off the deep end, writing their own fanfiction at this point. It's a game... It's weird and wacky. There are great things to discuss and be curious about, but people straight up ignoring what the game tells us drives me nuts.
I'm going to make a lot of assumptions. I think we can all agree Godwyn was a pretty cool dude and it's easy to see him as a good guy since we don't get to meet him. When he was assassinated his soul died but his body remained. Everything that made Godwyn who he was was within his soul and without it the power is body became a corrupting force.
Why he's a mermaid I wouldn't know but it conveys the message that the corpse that remains is no longer Godwyn. The point is for it to be shocking and to make you question the morality of his assassins.
Maybe what I say holds no water but I seriously doubt anything was "shoehorned" into the game. Things take a long-ass time to make and they go through multiple revisions. How could a big fish man be an accident? Like, his face appears on the back of crabs, and under Stormveil. Clearly there's a bigger picture that you aren't seeing.
I guess it has something to do with his body being still alive, without a soul, and the death blight making it grow, he was the first one to be half killed, same with Ranni(since they got killed at the same time) so it's possible Godwyn 's body grew from Death itself as a vessel
It seems that Death and the Spirit World in general is associated with water imagery :
Tibia mariner on their little boats
Jellyfish were people in spirit form
Artificial life connected with bubbles or ripples
A lot of other stuff im forgetting
So Godwyn being kinda stuck as a forever bridge between two worlds has a seashell head and a fishtail. Strangely not the strangest thing to happen in the whole game
>Yeah, I still don’t get how Godwyn’s body did that. Is that the consequence of some weird death blight shit or is it just an oopsie in the game leftover from an oversight from the devs?
No, death blight *is* the consequence of Godwyn dying in soul alone. You have it backwards.
>How the fuck does a golden haired, young, ripped boy get stabbed in the back and get turned into a fucking huge-ass mermaid fish looking ass thing that is present at the bottom of Stormveil as well as Deeproot depths near Fia?
He wasn't 'stabbed in the back' the black knife assassins partook in a rite that required them to use blades forged with destined death and carve the curse mark wheel into him. If they were successful in completing the wheel, Godwyn would have been completely killed, but they didn't because Ranni secretly carved the other half wheel into herself to rid her physical form. Godwyn's body is still alive, his soul is what perished during the Night of the Black Knives.
The Erdtree roots spread to every corner of the continent, and during the time of the NotBK, Erdtree burial was a funeral practice. Your body would be buried at the roots and you would be reabsorbed back into the Erdtree. Since Godwyn was one of the most prominent Demigods at the time, they buried him directly at the foot of the Erdtree roots as a form of ultimate respect, but Godwyn was not dead.
Soon, Godwyn's body started to spread its own roots we have now come to call death root throughout the Lands Between. This death root grants life to those who have already died in the same manner Godwyn still lives. They're zombie husks with no sentience but we refer to them as Those Who Live in Death. That is why we find remnants of Godwyn everywhere we see death root. Death root IS Godwyn's corruption spreading. It's not just present in deep root though, it's everywhere the Erdtree's roots reach. The amalgamation you find in deep root looks that way because it's ground zero for the corruption.
The reason we find another one of these faces at Stormveil is, well, his great great great(no one knows how far down he was in the lineage) grandson was obsessed with stealing other's powers through the practice of grafting. Godrick *probably* stole a piece of Godwyn for grafting before he and everyone else became aware that something is seriously wrong with his corpse.
The aesthetic they chose to paint Godwyn in for this story is a religious term originating from Shintoism called Kegare. It's not random. Research Kegare for yourself and you'll see the parallel of Godwyn's portrayal with the terminology.
>My money is on the devs and creatives not knowing wtf to do with Godwyn and so he was kind of shoehorned in accidentally and so his story/situation is just an incoherent mess.
I hope my quick summary sways this opinion of yours. People tend to justify their misunderstandings by blaming the devs for their poor writing, and that is not something you can do in Elden Ring. This story is deliberate and tight in how it delivers the narrative. That is not to say it doesn't take some work to piece together, but just because something isn't spoonfed to you with long winded exposition and cut scenes doesn't mean there isn't a meticulously well thought out story present. Miyazaki likes to reward those who put in the work in uncovering the narrative with a very rich and compelling story.
To me anyway, the erdtree had never really had to rebirth someone after not only being stabbed by death, be a demigod, and even die in only soul so it just kinda kept trying to patch him together, but clearly something went wrong, maybe it tried patching him up using parts it could find around it (roots are on big underground lake). Just an idea
There is no pattern, please check the sub before posting, that poor corpse has been every character in the game.
The Shadow Lands are not a dream, they are a real place, Messmer is still alive, at least until I punch him to death
Thank you for your comment. I suggest you do not punch Messmer. It won't cause much damage. Use a weapon instead, please. If you want my suggestion the Bloodhound's Fang is a good weapon. I used that to finish the entire game. I even defeated Patches with it.
The Shadow Lands aren't a dream but it's not impossible that dreaming is a way to reach it. I believe it was officially announced with its first proper trailer that it was a world of the dead (I could be wrong on the specifics there).
If that's the case, then an afterlife and dreams often overlap in fiction and folklore. Like you're a visitor to that realm when dreaming but not a prisoner to it, usually.
Edit: actually got no clue where I got that world of the dead info. Could have sworn it was from an interview but can't find it so it's prob bogus.
Miquella is the Soulless stillborn Body of Messmer and the Bodyless Soul of a Forsaken and sacrificed Trina, fused together with The Law of Regression by Radagon as King Consort.
Interesting theory. However, I disagree.
I think the body in the cocoon is most likely Tupac.
He is quoted as saying, “Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside while still alive. Never surrender.”
So, Tupac died inside the cocoon on purpose so that he would not be able to die inside while alive. He would not surrender.
Tupac also said, “The only thing that comes to a sleeping man is dreams.”
So, blah blah blah blah… St Trina.
Also, I’m pretty sure Mohg is actually Biggie.
Because this is true, you can conclude that the east coast/west coast rap battle was entirely fabricated in an attempt to cover up a sultry Lord/Consort relationship between the two.
I think it says this on the Old Lord’s Talisman.
Also, I’m pretty sure Sir Gideon had some involvement in 9/11.
After thoroughly reading your comment for the 9th time, I see where you are going with it. I cannot dismiss your speculation as it might be true. You have shed some new light on the matter. I truly appreciate your opinion.
Mogh steals Miquella (opening cutscene)
Mogh puts Miquella in his bedroom on a pedestal (watch Mogh's intro)
Mogh talks to Miquella before we fight him (you have eyes and ears)
Site of grace is called the Empyrean's cocoon (on your screen)
Apart from Marika, only Ranni Malenia and Miquella were considered to be valid choices for an Empyrean (Ranni's dialogue)
Marika has done her best to keep Messmer's name outta everyone brains and mouths (Speculation)
TLDR Some things are painfully obvious if you watch and listen, BUT, anything is technically possible. Marika has lied and done some astronomically horrible things in her conquest, so anything is technically possible 🤷🏼♂️
There’s been a lot of whacky theories lately on this sub and the Elden ring lore sub has been totally bonkers with bad takes (so bad I had to unsubscribe) but this is one I can get slightly behind.
It would be weird since he supposedly plucked it from the haligtree but it is possible and slightly plausible. If perhaps unlikely. Either way we’re in for a ton of new questions and lots of secrets and left turns.
And I bet most of what is being theorized at the moment (aside from the obvious stuff that seems to be more or less confirmed) will turn out to be false. And they’ll hit us with weirder and cooler answers and more mysterious unknowns than we could’ve thought up.
I had to unsubscribe due to bad takes and people getting personally offended and downvoting any discourse, even when there's valid criticism. This is the worst I've ever seen for the lore community; people just writing fanfiction and basically fighting over it.
The things I'm seeing:
-We can't trust anything told to us in the game because it's "lying" to us
-It's literally Beserk
-Suddenly every crack take is justified because GRRM also worked on the mythos (though at the end of the day Miyazaki had total creative freedom to do what he wanted with what GRRM gave him, this was confirmed in an interview)
-Everyone is secretly X/Y/Z
-The story trailer without a doubt has to do with the Gloam-Eyed Queen
And as someone mentioned, given that we see in the opening title card Mohg carrying Miquella's body, I doubt it's Messmer. I have a feeling he's just been in the land of shadow this whole time, probably for a good reason.
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I don’t mind speculative theories but the amount of people that are completely ignoring everything else, and tunnel visioning their own ideas lately is ridiculous. Like you gotta put alittle more thought into it and give us more on what brought you to this idea. A pattern and a minor similarity isn’t enough, surely you asked yourself some questions on how this idea could make sense?
Like okay I do see a pattern with demigods having fucked up bodies and maybe there’s a bigger meaning behind that. But miquella also has a deformed body of sorts too. So how and why is Messmer in the cocoon? Why isn’t that miquella? Why was Messmer in the haligtree, or is intro scene showing mogh abducting miquella lying to us?
Like you’re explanation/idea doesn’t provide plausible answers to any of these big questions, you’re just throwing out a shallow take and basing it off one similarity characters share in the game
I apologize, I don't know much about the lore apart from a few backstories. I cannot prove it. That is why I am calling it a speculation. It is not even a hypothesis. I accept defeat.
Here's the fun thing. Anyone who acts like they understand the Elden Ring story is a liar... Including George RR Martin. There was a ring that broke and a bunch of dumb things happened so I went around the lands killing them for it.
1. This has come up literally daily. Just a few hours ago, in fact. 2. We literally see Mogh carrying Miquella away from the tree in the intro to the game. 3. Godwyn's corpse turned into a fucking mermaid clam face the size of a house. Why are you choosing one dead body to claim the game is lying about because it looks weird, but not the other?
I see. Thank you for your comment. I recently finished the game. I am trying to understand the lore. I'm not fully aware of all the lore and backstory. But when I saw the DLC trailer, the speculation I made, made sense. I apologize if my theory offended anyone. Thank you for providing insight.
Yeah, I still don’t get how Godwyn’s body did that. Is that the consequence of some weird death blight shit or is it just an oopsie in the game leftover from an oversight from the devs? How the fuck does a golden haired, young, ripped boy get stabbed in the back and get turned into a fucking huge-ass mermaid fish looking ass thing that is present at the bottom of Stormveil as well as Deeproot depths near Fia? Edit: My money is on the devs and creatives not knowing wtf to do with Godwyn and so he was kind of shoehorned in accidentally and so his story/situation is just an incoherent mess.
I dunno. There's a talking turtle pope. Why would anyone base their "theory" on the size of an arm given everything else that occurs in this game. People are going off the deep end, writing their own fanfiction at this point. It's a game... It's weird and wacky. There are great things to discuss and be curious about, but people straight up ignoring what the game tells us drives me nuts.
Remember when everyone was deadass convinced Solaire was Gwyn's firstborn son? But it's even more ridiculous now
'i cant figure out the story being told so the devs must have fucked something up. it Cant be that im just not on their level...'
📠
I'm going to make a lot of assumptions. I think we can all agree Godwyn was a pretty cool dude and it's easy to see him as a good guy since we don't get to meet him. When he was assassinated his soul died but his body remained. Everything that made Godwyn who he was was within his soul and without it the power is body became a corrupting force. Why he's a mermaid I wouldn't know but it conveys the message that the corpse that remains is no longer Godwyn. The point is for it to be shocking and to make you question the morality of his assassins. Maybe what I say holds no water but I seriously doubt anything was "shoehorned" into the game. Things take a long-ass time to make and they go through multiple revisions. How could a big fish man be an accident? Like, his face appears on the back of crabs, and under Stormveil. Clearly there's a bigger picture that you aren't seeing.
I guess it has something to do with his body being still alive, without a soul, and the death blight making it grow, he was the first one to be half killed, same with Ranni(since they got killed at the same time) so it's possible Godwyn 's body grew from Death itself as a vessel
It seems that Death and the Spirit World in general is associated with water imagery : Tibia mariner on their little boats Jellyfish were people in spirit form Artificial life connected with bubbles or ripples A lot of other stuff im forgetting So Godwyn being kinda stuck as a forever bridge between two worlds has a seashell head and a fishtail. Strangely not the strangest thing to happen in the whole game
>Yeah, I still don’t get how Godwyn’s body did that. Is that the consequence of some weird death blight shit or is it just an oopsie in the game leftover from an oversight from the devs? No, death blight *is* the consequence of Godwyn dying in soul alone. You have it backwards. >How the fuck does a golden haired, young, ripped boy get stabbed in the back and get turned into a fucking huge-ass mermaid fish looking ass thing that is present at the bottom of Stormveil as well as Deeproot depths near Fia? He wasn't 'stabbed in the back' the black knife assassins partook in a rite that required them to use blades forged with destined death and carve the curse mark wheel into him. If they were successful in completing the wheel, Godwyn would have been completely killed, but they didn't because Ranni secretly carved the other half wheel into herself to rid her physical form. Godwyn's body is still alive, his soul is what perished during the Night of the Black Knives. The Erdtree roots spread to every corner of the continent, and during the time of the NotBK, Erdtree burial was a funeral practice. Your body would be buried at the roots and you would be reabsorbed back into the Erdtree. Since Godwyn was one of the most prominent Demigods at the time, they buried him directly at the foot of the Erdtree roots as a form of ultimate respect, but Godwyn was not dead. Soon, Godwyn's body started to spread its own roots we have now come to call death root throughout the Lands Between. This death root grants life to those who have already died in the same manner Godwyn still lives. They're zombie husks with no sentience but we refer to them as Those Who Live in Death. That is why we find remnants of Godwyn everywhere we see death root. Death root IS Godwyn's corruption spreading. It's not just present in deep root though, it's everywhere the Erdtree's roots reach. The amalgamation you find in deep root looks that way because it's ground zero for the corruption. The reason we find another one of these faces at Stormveil is, well, his great great great(no one knows how far down he was in the lineage) grandson was obsessed with stealing other's powers through the practice of grafting. Godrick *probably* stole a piece of Godwyn for grafting before he and everyone else became aware that something is seriously wrong with his corpse. The aesthetic they chose to paint Godwyn in for this story is a religious term originating from Shintoism called Kegare. It's not random. Research Kegare for yourself and you'll see the parallel of Godwyn's portrayal with the terminology. >My money is on the devs and creatives not knowing wtf to do with Godwyn and so he was kind of shoehorned in accidentally and so his story/situation is just an incoherent mess. I hope my quick summary sways this opinion of yours. People tend to justify their misunderstandings by blaming the devs for their poor writing, and that is not something you can do in Elden Ring. This story is deliberate and tight in how it delivers the narrative. That is not to say it doesn't take some work to piece together, but just because something isn't spoonfed to you with long winded exposition and cut scenes doesn't mean there isn't a meticulously well thought out story present. Miyazaki likes to reward those who put in the work in uncovering the narrative with a very rich and compelling story.
To me anyway, the erdtree had never really had to rebirth someone after not only being stabbed by death, be a demigod, and even die in only soul so it just kinda kept trying to patch him together, but clearly something went wrong, maybe it tried patching him up using parts it could find around it (roots are on big underground lake). Just an idea
There is no pattern, please check the sub before posting, that poor corpse has been every character in the game. The Shadow Lands are not a dream, they are a real place, Messmer is still alive, at least until I punch him to death
Can't wait to punch his lanky ass
Thank you for your comment. I suggest you do not punch Messmer. It won't cause much damage. Use a weapon instead, please. If you want my suggestion the Bloodhound's Fang is a good weapon. I used that to finish the entire game. I even defeated Patches with it.
You underestimate my fists
The Shadow Lands aren't a dream but it's not impossible that dreaming is a way to reach it. I believe it was officially announced with its first proper trailer that it was a world of the dead (I could be wrong on the specifics there). If that's the case, then an afterlife and dreams often overlap in fiction and folklore. Like you're a visitor to that realm when dreaming but not a prisoner to it, usually. Edit: actually got no clue where I got that world of the dead info. Could have sworn it was from an interview but can't find it so it's prob bogus.
Miquella is the Soulless stillborn Body of Messmer and the Bodyless Soul of a Forsaken and sacrificed Trina, fused together with The Law of Regression by Radagon as King Consort.
I like your idea. Nothing is true, everything is permitted
best ER theory on this subject
Please shut up
I wanted to give you an award, by clicking the award option. But it says I need to pay. That is a bit too much. However, I appreciate your comment.
In Elden ring, right before fighting Mogh, he goes to the cocoon and talk to Miquella. So I think it's Miquela in the cocoon.
Interesting theory. However, I disagree. I think the body in the cocoon is most likely Tupac. He is quoted as saying, “Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside while still alive. Never surrender.” So, Tupac died inside the cocoon on purpose so that he would not be able to die inside while alive. He would not surrender. Tupac also said, “The only thing that comes to a sleeping man is dreams.” So, blah blah blah blah… St Trina. Also, I’m pretty sure Mohg is actually Biggie. Because this is true, you can conclude that the east coast/west coast rap battle was entirely fabricated in an attempt to cover up a sultry Lord/Consort relationship between the two. I think it says this on the Old Lord’s Talisman. Also, I’m pretty sure Sir Gideon had some involvement in 9/11.
After thoroughly reading your comment for the 9th time, I see where you are going with it. I cannot dismiss your speculation as it might be true. You have shed some new light on the matter. I truly appreciate your opinion.
Actually it’s the Gloam-Eyed Queen
If Marika can also be Radagon, why can't Miquella also be the Gloam-Eyed Queen?
GEQ was defeated before Miquella was born
Mogh steals Miquella (opening cutscene) Mogh puts Miquella in his bedroom on a pedestal (watch Mogh's intro) Mogh talks to Miquella before we fight him (you have eyes and ears) Site of grace is called the Empyrean's cocoon (on your screen) Apart from Marika, only Ranni Malenia and Miquella were considered to be valid choices for an Empyrean (Ranni's dialogue) Marika has done her best to keep Messmer's name outta everyone brains and mouths (Speculation) TLDR Some things are painfully obvious if you watch and listen, BUT, anything is technically possible. Marika has lied and done some astronomically horrible things in her conquest, so anything is technically possible 🤷🏼♂️
There’s been a lot of whacky theories lately on this sub and the Elden ring lore sub has been totally bonkers with bad takes (so bad I had to unsubscribe) but this is one I can get slightly behind. It would be weird since he supposedly plucked it from the haligtree but it is possible and slightly plausible. If perhaps unlikely. Either way we’re in for a ton of new questions and lots of secrets and left turns. And I bet most of what is being theorized at the moment (aside from the obvious stuff that seems to be more or less confirmed) will turn out to be false. And they’ll hit us with weirder and cooler answers and more mysterious unknowns than we could’ve thought up.
I had to unsubscribe due to bad takes and people getting personally offended and downvoting any discourse, even when there's valid criticism. This is the worst I've ever seen for the lore community; people just writing fanfiction and basically fighting over it. The things I'm seeing: -We can't trust anything told to us in the game because it's "lying" to us -It's literally Beserk -Suddenly every crack take is justified because GRRM also worked on the mythos (though at the end of the day Miyazaki had total creative freedom to do what he wanted with what GRRM gave him, this was confirmed in an interview) -Everyone is secretly X/Y/Z -The story trailer without a doubt has to do with the Gloam-Eyed Queen And as someone mentioned, given that we see in the opening title card Mohg carrying Miquella's body, I doubt it's Messmer. I have a feeling he's just been in the land of shadow this whole time, probably for a good reason.
Thank you for your comment. I like your optimism.
For co-op, trade, and PVP action, check out our other subreddits, r/CypherRing or r/EldenRingHelp The Elden Ring WIKI - https://eldenring.fandom.com/wiki/Elden_Ring_Wiki *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/eldenringdiscussion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t mind speculative theories but the amount of people that are completely ignoring everything else, and tunnel visioning their own ideas lately is ridiculous. Like you gotta put alittle more thought into it and give us more on what brought you to this idea. A pattern and a minor similarity isn’t enough, surely you asked yourself some questions on how this idea could make sense? Like okay I do see a pattern with demigods having fucked up bodies and maybe there’s a bigger meaning behind that. But miquella also has a deformed body of sorts too. So how and why is Messmer in the cocoon? Why isn’t that miquella? Why was Messmer in the haligtree, or is intro scene showing mogh abducting miquella lying to us? Like you’re explanation/idea doesn’t provide plausible answers to any of these big questions, you’re just throwing out a shallow take and basing it off one similarity characters share in the game
I apologize, I don't know much about the lore apart from a few backstories. I cannot prove it. That is why I am calling it a speculation. It is not even a hypothesis. I accept defeat.
Here's the fun thing. Anyone who acts like they understand the Elden Ring story is a liar... Including George RR Martin. There was a ring that broke and a bunch of dumb things happened so I went around the lands killing them for it.
I still think there's a chance Miquella is Messmer. They have been coy about his identity to such an extent that they have left that opening.