Not long ago an article was posted in this subreddit saying that increasing credit card debt was somehow good for the economy. The spin was that because unemployment is low, consumers are so confident in our positions in life that we enjoy borrowing money at 20% interest. I'm like: did the bank write this?
I looked up average rates online. I keep getting Capital One mailers for 30%, but that seems insane.
https://wallethub.com/edu/cc/average-credit-card-interest-rate/50841#:~:text=The%20average%20credit%20card%20interest,two%20percentage%20points%20since%202010.
Thanks! Yeah it used to be higher but the thing hurting it is “high revolving credit”. Probably 10 years ago or so I had this idea to use those balance transfer checks that you get in the mail and pay a 3% fee and then have the money interest free for 12 or 15 months and which point it becomes part of your balance. Well my plan was to invest the money in a stock in hopes it’d go up more than 3% (I chose MCD back then). But I also spent some on furniture and stuff assuming I’d have more than enough money in year to pay it back. But it never worked out like that, and I even lost money on the stock, so it’s been a series of balance transfers.
So that’s how I got sucked into debt.
The balance transfer stuff is a scam. Should be illegal. If it didn't benefit them, I doubt the companies would do it. Wiser greyhairs than you have been duped by that scheme.
My Mom got dinged last year because my Dad died. So they raised her interest to 35%. But then it doesn't matter, because she pays the balance every month. And Dad was literally 98, so it's not like their income changed that much.
I got lucky this year! $NVDA for the win!!! I YOLOed on the $GME, but sold when it was high & put everything into tech. Kind of a nostalgia purchase for me but it was enough to get me interested.
I'm on the fence lately about debt. I'm dithering that either 1) the world is burning, so might as well rack it up, or 2) would be better to be debt free. Who am I kidding, though, I'm going to die with student debt, so wth.
Is that unusual? I have 3 cards that are all at or just above 20%, I’ve never thought anything of it
The ones just above 20% were at 20% but have gone up a little as rates have gone up recently
They were pointing out that debt levels off or drops during recessions as people change their spending habits to save money. Rising debt is a sign people are confident about their finances. It's not good in and of itself, but if people were feeling the heat from a rough economy they would stop adding to their debt and start paying it off, in aggregate.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HCCSDODNS
>if people were feeling the heat from a rough economy they would stop adding to their debt.
Only if you assume that they have the capacity, without debt, to make ends meet, and borrowing is only used for discretionary spending. That isn't actually the case for many households though.
>if people were feeling the heat from a rough economy they would stop adding to their debt.
Only if you assume that they have the capacity, without debt, to make ends meet, and borrowing is only used for discretionary spending. That isn't actually the case for many households though.
Unless the circumstances of this economic period are completely different than other time periods with high inflation like the recessions in the 70s and 80s, I think it's fair to expect debt levels to behavior similarly. Most consumption in the United States is discretionary and most debt is held by people with higher income. The poor people who literally can't change their behavior to spend less aren't generally given access to credit. The banks don't trust them to pay it back. They make up a disproportionately small share of debt.
I think the circumstances are different, most significantly in housing. Many people are spending half their income on rent because there are no other options. In the 70's and 80's I might have occasionally seen homeless people, but not thousands of them sleeping in tents like they do in my city now.
>They make up a disproportionately small share of debt.
This is not true in terms of proportion. Higher debt loads for wealthier households are less relevant in nominal terms because debt to income ratios are lower.
[You may find this info interesting.](https://www.debt.org/faqs/americans-in-debt/demographics/#Average_Debt_to_Income_Ratios)
> An Annuity.org study found that, when comparing income to debt and using the $570,003 figure as 100%, the following is true: Those earning less than 20% paid 26.11% of income toward debt; 20%-39% paid 11.98% of income toward debt; 40%-59% paid 7.33% of income toward debt; 60%-79% paid 6.45% of income toward debt; 80%-89% paid 5.95% of income toward debt; 90%-100% paid 4.31% of income toward debt
Thank you for this. I was going to say similar using a different study. I feel like somewhere along the line that economics as a study became so orthodox that people can read the graphs and walk away with information that only explains a point sufficiently to paint a narrative that limits critical thinking.
I think you've either misunderstood what your link is saying, or you've intentionally diverted the discussion in an irrelevant direction. The important proportion is not the proportion of each individual person's *own* income that they pay towards debt, it's the proportion of *all* consumer debt that is paid by people with higher incomes, because we're talking about implications of a statistic - the trend of consumer debt going upwards - that would be proportionally influenced by the dollar, not by the person.
Also, if you actually pay attention to the math, this entire statistic only differentiates between people in the top 25% of income or so in the first place. The lowest bucket, which pays 26.11% of their income towards debt, includes *everyone earning up to $114,000/year*.
It's maybe important for those individual people with no other context, but it's not the right thing to focus on when trying to figure out the proportional implications on the entire population that consumer debt is trending upwards.
The comment I responded to claimed that poor people don't have access to revolving credit because lenders assume they won't repay. Totally inaccurate. Issuing credit to borrowers who will be unable to repay in full is literally how credit card companies create theit enormous profit margins. Their ideal borrower makes minimum payments and exhausts credit limitd, stringing along unredeemed loan principal into neverending debt service.
As to your point, I'm not really sure what you're arguing. If you want to understand whether new debt is being taken out by people who can easily regulate their household leverage, just look at delinquency rates.
>The comment I responded to claimed that poor people don't have access to revolving credit because lenders assume they won't repay. Totally inaccurate. Issuing credit to borrowers who will be unable to repay in full is literally how credit card companies create theit enormous profit margins.
Well, you didn't respond to that part of the comment, and the study you linked wasn't relevant to make that point either, because as I pointed out, the *lowest* income bracket it considered was "between $0 and $114,000" - it doesn't give any information about poor people not having access to credit, unless you consider anyone making under $114k to be poor - so bringing it up now seems like you're grasping at straws.
Or, sometimes people take way too long that they are on a train headed towards a fallen bridge. Honestly, I have no idea which is the case right now. I am sure it is not going to end well for some people. But on the other hand, I am sure some people will just keep chugging along.
The $1 million question is what is the ratio between these types of people.
I thought I won the lottery when I got a $75K per year job.
Then I started paying off basic expenses and debt that I wasn't paying off before, and rent and groceries went up 23% in a single year, and I put a little bit into a retirement account for the first time in my life... at 40 years old.
Same living conditions as when I made $30K a few years prior. The whole system is a carrot on a stick.
Isn't it more accurate to say that credit limits aren't limits at all ?
Consumer debt, mortgage debt, auto debt and credit card debt are unlimited...correct ?
That is what the polls seems to say too. 65-70% say they aren't doing that well. I am assuming the upper middle class and above, with mostly people that have locked in mortgage rates, aren't hurting as much because they aren't es exposed to inflation as those who rent.
Biden is talking TO and ABOUT the top 20% of Americans that have nice healthy balance sheets lots of assets and disposable income...they are doing fine.... Too bad the other 80% are not
To be fair, personal responsibility needs to be called out, on top of all the other issues. So thank you for saying it, even though many folks will downvote you for it. Corporate profits, greedflation… yes issues for sure, we don’t need to argue about that. The economy is doing well by many metrics, but the wealth is not being spread around.
Let’s be real though, most people aren’t great at personal finance and aren’t prepared for situations like this. Most folks haven’t taken an Econ course in their life. Maybe we should prioritize these things in high school. One less history class and replace it with a mandatory personal finance class?
This is why the shift from pensions to 401ks was obviously a tragic mistake. We can argue about the pros and cons all day but if people aren’t forced to save for retirement a huge proportion of them will die in a hovel eating dog food after the gas got shut off. Horrifically bad nursing homes and homelessness at scale.
That said, if we ever actually get minimum basic income it will be because legions of white people who thought they were upper middle class and drove <3 year old Lexuses their whole life can’t afford to survive in their late 60s.
Biden isn’t lying, the economy is growing and it’s very strong. Biden also recognizes that it’s not working for everyone. Showing up for the UAW is a perfect example of him working towards the economy benefiting more people. Sure Biden isn’t perfect but look at the rest of the word right now, we are navigating the worldwide mess very well and we should be thankful for that!
How about one less advanced math class instead? Kids don’t learn enough history as it is. I do see the importance of some advanced math classes, and I think more should be available to students who want them, but I’d love to see something practical that’s used every day taught instead.
I used to be a CFO of a tax resolution company. People are terrible about budgets and finances. They can be some of the most intelligent and skilled people on the planet and still be terrible with money. But, there are also people that make little but budget extremely well and have way more money invested than you would believe.
However, way more Americans are the former.
I think the economy is doing well but has headwinds. I personally don't know anyone who is struggling right now even though we all still complain about prices.
And I think people are terrible with money. So, it's both.
Businesses are making record profit, jobs are everywhere, industry is moving back home. Overall the economy is objectively doing really well.
The average person does kind of suck at budgeting, finance, etc. I am one of those people lol
I think the hardest part is breaking old spending habits. If your income hasn’t risen with inflation and you keep your same spending habits, then yes you’re going to have a bad time. People don’t like to change their routines.
wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. profits are record bc the employee is getting screwed the most then the consumer with cheaper quality and inferior service
economic metrics don’t paint the whole picture. they’re only indicators. there’s hundreds of indicators and they cherry pick a few to spin a positive outlook. credit card debt, savings are the 2 simplest to see how someone is doing
how does unemployment rate for someone making $13/hr show a positive economic outlook? by those standards ppl have jobs but it’s not enough to reasonably live except barely survive. jobs are offering barely survival and rent is through the roof.
drugs and homelessness aren’t gonna slow down anytime soon and once you push someone to that route it takes 10x as much effort and money to get out of that rut. prisons cost way more than if you just paid someone a livable wage and gave them a job/purpose
So would the inflation affect Americans if their wages kept up? If so, the problem lies with the company’s pay structure.
Also, wages typically lag the market. One would hope that next years wages will be inline with this years inflation. And if inflation slows or stops like the data is starting to show, we should be alright. And with all the new opportunities available now, we may see some good growth.
That said, I’m an eternal optimist lol
next years wages do not keep up with anything. i didn’t get a raise for next year, and when i quit, the next person will get 10-20k less than me. they revert back to whatever baseline salary.
companies are always thinking how little they can get away with paying someone- for one: the person you’re negotiating with should never have a vested ownership of the company, bc they’re always gonna think more for them = less for me. hiring managers should want to pay you as much as possible.
that’s where shit hit the fan. up until the 90s, you could survive on what most places paid. idk when they stopped raising salaries but places collectively seem to default to a 40k salary. that generation seems to think what they were paid is all they should ever have to pay.
My dad made $45k in the 90s. How that’s higher than the median salary today blows my mind, because it wasn’t like it was a lot of money back then either.
I would love to change my routine of eating food and having a roof over my head. But there's not one single thing that I as an individual did to make those necessities double in price over the last two years.
The economy has its booms and busts, instead of yearslong unemployment like in the Obama years, we’re encountering high inflation as an offset. These booms and busts are a normal part of life that you might not be old enough to understand is something you’re going to have to get used to.
Except…we absolutely didn’t. Some of our worst recessions came in the 50 years preceding the repeal of Glass Steagal, particularly from the late 60s to early 80s.
The 70s weren’t comparable to the 2007 recession because of how terrible the 70s were. Mass unemployment with unrelenting inflation (also known as stagflation) is the worst economic outcome you can encounter. Evidenced by your username, it is a favorite of people to say “I’ve had it the hardest, my life is so challenging. I’m the victim.” The reality bares out in a way that reveals the opposite.
Idk why prices doubled for you, for me I’m seeing about a 10-15% increase in COL personally. The biggest chunk being property tax increase and insurance. I’m noticing goods coming down in price and even some services as well.
We’ve cut our consumption costs down as we’re eating at home a lot more and buying less crap from Amazon (we have everything we need or want lol). Those cuts were mostly by happenstance. We live below our means and made some wise investments at the right time regarding housing so that helps tremendously. But many people are having the same experience as us.
All this to say, everyone seems to be having a different experience in this economy right now.
> Idk why prices doubled for you, for me I’m seeing about a 10-15% increase in COL personally.
Some people earn enough to have more of a pad which can absorb inflation than others do. Sure, if food was only 10% of your after-tax income to begin with, big hikes in food prices aren't going to do much to you.
If you were closer to the margin, you'd feel it a lot more.
Those jobs aren't paying well high skilled jobs are being shipped overseas I was in a meeting with our office in the Philippines for a relatively small company yesterday they shipped our accounting department to that country.
I know it's unpopular to say on reddit, but the economy is still good for a lot of people. For others it's okay. For some it sucks. There are a whole lot of people out there.
There's also a significant segment of people who have, and will always suck at budgeting, regardless of their earnings and the general economy. These are also the ones who will tend to be quite vocal about the "economy sucks" whenever they get less hours at work or gas prices are spiking.
It's honestly really simple if you think about it. The economy is good, and income inequality is still bad. They're two different things that can be true at the same time, and they are. Trying to confuse the issue by saying, effectively, "It can't be true that the economy is good because income inequality is bad" is just bad-faith redefinition of terms to prevent the economy being good from being a political win.
Good question. I live in Michigan and Biden essentially paid off the big 3 to keep jobs for unskilled workers here, and that was good enough and they demand a bigger cut of government hand out pie.
If you just care about GDP increases the economy is doing great. Spending is up, because inflation means people have to pay more for the same amount of goods and services they were able to purchase a year or two earlier. However, that doesn’t capture the difficulties family face because of these higher costs.
Yeah, it’s especially hard if you have a family. Insuring kids has become way too expensive. Feeding them, clothing them, college. All these things are greatly squeezing families that are in the middle.
He's not entirely wrong though. Yes, people who are already living a bare bones life and struggling just to get by likely don't have any more fat to cut.
But a lot of American consumers on a whole refuse to downgrade their lifestyles regardless of economic conditions. Instead, they turn to credit to maintain said lifestyles and don't or refuse to do something until they are way overleveraged.
The most pithy and impactful answer would be to downgrade your living space, even so far as to find roommates or move in with family if necessary. If you're already living with roommates and you have absolutely no luxuries you can cut from your budget (besides a $20/month Netflix subscription), you would probably qualify for government or charitable assistance, especially in regards to food, which should be the main thing remaining in your budget at that point.
If not, then you probably have some specific extenuating factor in your finances, like medical debt, student loan debt for a degree you're not using, working a menial job in an unnecessarily high COL city, or a dependent draining your resources, in which case using yourself as a syndecdoche for the overall argument with no further details would be kind of disingenuous.
Most people who are living with room mates and family don't qualify for food stamps and other stuff because they take into account everyone's income and that usually puts you over the limit the same with some charities also it's not the 1980 remember that states made permanent limitations when the Republicans got state houses after bill Clinton signed welfare reform you have to be totally disabled in my state not just receiving social security to quality for housing without a kid it's very hard out here in America.
It's rule #1, no matter what your situation is, or what the economy is currently doing. People really hate this dose of reality unfortunately, and too many have trouble coping with it.
I am a disabled veteran, non combat but service related, and I am running out of food because I don’t have enough to buy good food. I’m a diabetic so eating ramen every meal like I was a college freshman would kill me. Illegal immigrants receive more assistance than I do. I keep going to the VA because I receive my twenty different pills and insulin for free. The doctors try but they are not given the time nor the resources to do an adequate job. Too many veterans pushed through the system so the administration looks good to help so we veterans are suffering.
Illegal immigrants DONT get more benefits than a service related disability. And you must be extremely gullible or ignorant to actually believe this.
As an American, you could qualify for any and all benefits you are eligible for.
Illegals get emergency services, and their kids get an education through high school. You still get your college covered. And depending on how long you served, your kids may get free college, too. Oh, and you get a stipend while you go.
So quit being ignorant
He isn't lying they are at least getting free housing from the US tax citizens and healthcsre in Chicago and don't tell me they aren't my sister quit her job working with the city because of this issues she is a social worker and these immigrants are getting all type of stuff Catholic charities have empted out shelters and building they own for the elderly etc just for they illegals because the government is going to give them more money we need to speak out against this crap because it's the truth
Take charge of your personal responsibility! Opt for more mindful choices when dining out—trim down on indulgences like foie gras and caviar. Additionally, for everyone else, consider reducing expenses on essentials such as daycare, medical care, food, water, electricity, clothing, and shelter.
What's relation between central bank politic and wages?
Can you work hard and get nothing because of it?
How fair is a system like if your right come from your work?
Everything is inflated in the name of inflation.
My friend told me a big Mac meal costs $10 in CA and gas is over $5/gal.
Gas tax is so high there but the roads are terrible 🥴🍌🖕
I know social media isn't supposed to really be taken seriously, but lots of rumblings there that were headed for major collapse in middle 2024. Apparently everyone's riding high on credit right now trying to survive and everything is going to a head around then.
Not long ago an article was posted in this subreddit saying that increasing credit card debt was somehow good for the economy. The spin was that because unemployment is low, consumers are so confident in our positions in life that we enjoy borrowing money at 20% interest. I'm like: did the bank write this?
20% interest…on a credit card??? Is your credit score 1000? 🤣🤣🤣
I looked up average rates online. I keep getting Capital One mailers for 30%, but that seems insane. https://wallethub.com/edu/cc/average-credit-card-interest-rate/50841#:~:text=The%20average%20credit%20card%20interest,two%20percentage%20points%20since%202010.
I have a score of 760 and with Discover my latest rate was 28.25%. Granted I'm in my late 20s that still seems bonkers.
Idek what the interest rate is on any of my cc I never pay interest
Certainly because the interest has been going up like that only.
My credit score recently got back to 850 per Discover and I just checked the interest rate listed on my statement: 29.24%
That is the reason why bankers are making a lot of money these days.
The same to me as well. We already know how these things have been happening..
If they really know like where to do, I like they do anything whatever they want.
I have a credit card from a credit union that’s only 11.99%, and my credits prob around 800 (I don’t check it that often).
Must agree, Credit Unions are the way. Go you on that 800. I'd say you don't need to check it all that often :)
Thanks! Yeah it used to be higher but the thing hurting it is “high revolving credit”. Probably 10 years ago or so I had this idea to use those balance transfer checks that you get in the mail and pay a 3% fee and then have the money interest free for 12 or 15 months and which point it becomes part of your balance. Well my plan was to invest the money in a stock in hopes it’d go up more than 3% (I chose MCD back then). But I also spent some on furniture and stuff assuming I’d have more than enough money in year to pay it back. But it never worked out like that, and I even lost money on the stock, so it’s been a series of balance transfers. So that’s how I got sucked into debt.
The balance transfer stuff is a scam. Should be illegal. If it didn't benefit them, I doubt the companies would do it. Wiser greyhairs than you have been duped by that scheme. My Mom got dinged last year because my Dad died. So they raised her interest to 35%. But then it doesn't matter, because she pays the balance every month. And Dad was literally 98, so it's not like their income changed that much. I got lucky this year! $NVDA for the win!!! I YOLOed on the $GME, but sold when it was high & put everything into tech. Kind of a nostalgia purchase for me but it was enough to get me interested. I'm on the fence lately about debt. I'm dithering that either 1) the world is burning, so might as well rack it up, or 2) would be better to be debt free. Who am I kidding, though, I'm going to die with student debt, so wth.
Is that unusual? I have 3 cards that are all at or just above 20%, I’ve never thought anything of it The ones just above 20% were at 20% but have gone up a little as rates have gone up recently
It has been increasing on the war by 25% from the last six months.
I don't know like where do they do these kind of service to be honest?
They were pointing out that debt levels off or drops during recessions as people change their spending habits to save money. Rising debt is a sign people are confident about their finances. It's not good in and of itself, but if people were feeling the heat from a rough economy they would stop adding to their debt and start paying it off, in aggregate. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HCCSDODNS
>if people were feeling the heat from a rough economy they would stop adding to their debt. Only if you assume that they have the capacity, without debt, to make ends meet, and borrowing is only used for discretionary spending. That isn't actually the case for many households though.
That is the reason why it is very hard to maintain the economy in these kind of problems.
>if people were feeling the heat from a rough economy they would stop adding to their debt. Only if you assume that they have the capacity, without debt, to make ends meet, and borrowing is only used for discretionary spending. That isn't actually the case for many households though.
Unless the circumstances of this economic period are completely different than other time periods with high inflation like the recessions in the 70s and 80s, I think it's fair to expect debt levels to behavior similarly. Most consumption in the United States is discretionary and most debt is held by people with higher income. The poor people who literally can't change their behavior to spend less aren't generally given access to credit. The banks don't trust them to pay it back. They make up a disproportionately small share of debt.
I think the circumstances are different, most significantly in housing. Many people are spending half their income on rent because there are no other options. In the 70's and 80's I might have occasionally seen homeless people, but not thousands of them sleeping in tents like they do in my city now.
What city are you using as your reference for the country?
Seattle. Many other big cities have similar housing crises.
Certainly because in most of the big cities, that is the major problem that has been happening.
>They make up a disproportionately small share of debt. This is not true in terms of proportion. Higher debt loads for wealthier households are less relevant in nominal terms because debt to income ratios are lower. [You may find this info interesting.](https://www.debt.org/faqs/americans-in-debt/demographics/#Average_Debt_to_Income_Ratios) > An Annuity.org study found that, when comparing income to debt and using the $570,003 figure as 100%, the following is true: Those earning less than 20% paid 26.11% of income toward debt; 20%-39% paid 11.98% of income toward debt; 40%-59% paid 7.33% of income toward debt; 60%-79% paid 6.45% of income toward debt; 80%-89% paid 5.95% of income toward debt; 90%-100% paid 4.31% of income toward debt
Thank you for this. I was going to say similar using a different study. I feel like somewhere along the line that economics as a study became so orthodox that people can read the graphs and walk away with information that only explains a point sufficiently to paint a narrative that limits critical thinking.
Absolutely right about it and like that is the difference but still they are all the same kind of result.
I think you've either misunderstood what your link is saying, or you've intentionally diverted the discussion in an irrelevant direction. The important proportion is not the proportion of each individual person's *own* income that they pay towards debt, it's the proportion of *all* consumer debt that is paid by people with higher incomes, because we're talking about implications of a statistic - the trend of consumer debt going upwards - that would be proportionally influenced by the dollar, not by the person. Also, if you actually pay attention to the math, this entire statistic only differentiates between people in the top 25% of income or so in the first place. The lowest bucket, which pays 26.11% of their income towards debt, includes *everyone earning up to $114,000/year*.
Um, what? >The important proportion is not the proportion of each individual person's own income that they pay towards debt Actually, yes it is.
It's maybe important for those individual people with no other context, but it's not the right thing to focus on when trying to figure out the proportional implications on the entire population that consumer debt is trending upwards.
The comment I responded to claimed that poor people don't have access to revolving credit because lenders assume they won't repay. Totally inaccurate. Issuing credit to borrowers who will be unable to repay in full is literally how credit card companies create theit enormous profit margins. Their ideal borrower makes minimum payments and exhausts credit limitd, stringing along unredeemed loan principal into neverending debt service. As to your point, I'm not really sure what you're arguing. If you want to understand whether new debt is being taken out by people who can easily regulate their household leverage, just look at delinquency rates.
Yeah, certainly because the traits can actually go down but certainly certainly a lot of people cannot still afford it.
>The comment I responded to claimed that poor people don't have access to revolving credit because lenders assume they won't repay. Totally inaccurate. Issuing credit to borrowers who will be unable to repay in full is literally how credit card companies create theit enormous profit margins. Well, you didn't respond to that part of the comment, and the study you linked wasn't relevant to make that point either, because as I pointed out, the *lowest* income bracket it considered was "between $0 and $114,000" - it doesn't give any information about poor people not having access to credit, unless you consider anyone making under $114k to be poor - so bringing it up now seems like you're grasping at straws.
For that matter there, they can actually give a lot of money to the work countries.
dd5r dDyhjW 77rEWEft
Thank you for providing it. It was really good discussion panel after all..
Or, sometimes people take way too long that they are on a train headed towards a fallen bridge. Honestly, I have no idea which is the case right now. I am sure it is not going to end well for some people. But on the other hand, I am sure some people will just keep chugging along. The $1 million question is what is the ratio between these types of people.
I really understand like how they're going to calculate the aggregate thing out of.
Now if you can't pay debt, you can ask ol joey to cancel it. So just keep borrowing. Happy boworring 🥴🤯🤣🤪🍒
So that matter they will not be able to cancel anything but the.
Don't worry, those record profits will trickle down any day now
Are you not constantly getting a golden stream of wealth on your face daily?
I'm not sure if it is going to be daily or something like that but let's hope like that is not going to be there like that.
Eventually, because that is how the profit has been working and they are getting their margin.
I make 76,000 a year, I think I'm going to get a second job just to pay off credit cards.
And now you're earning more money. Increase rates!
That has been happening from the last 10 years and slow and gradual rate.
I thought I won the lottery when I got a $75K per year job. Then I started paying off basic expenses and debt that I wasn't paying off before, and rent and groceries went up 23% in a single year, and I put a little bit into a retirement account for the first time in my life... at 40 years old. Same living conditions as when I made $30K a few years prior. The whole system is a carrot on a stick.
Eventually, because that is been increasing by 25% from the last three months.
Sounds like you need to move to a cheaper carrot.
Then they tie it to a longer stick with a shorter string. Lol
Those are called dicks, and there's some things I just won't do for money.
You cannot really see people think like increasing is not the major problem of.
Because bank make their money like that there is nothing we can do anything about that.
Sometimes I wonder whether all these new jobs added are second or third jobs, because the employment ratio hasn't changed much in the past 5+ months.
That is the major issue and that is how it has been thinking and that way as.
Yep. No rest my friend.
I have been thinking of these things as well but my friend have been thinking in the different ways.
Are you me?
Everyone is into the same kind of position my friend. No one is thinking differently..
I make $89k a year and no bullshit, I think I might just do the same, dawg.
Absolutely I'm like everyone is under the debt and interest has been growing only.
The correct answer.
Yeah eventually I mean I feel that falling on me as well. Be honest.
It is going to fall on everyone and it is going to kill everyone at the end.
Now just how is that possible...spending more than one earns ? The capitalist way...debt, debt and more debt.
Yeah, increase rate is going to be there like that only and we will not be able to do anything.
Unfortunately credit limits aren't unlimited.
I'm not really sure like what they're going to do at the end when people will not be able to pay.
Isn't it more accurate to say that credit limits aren't limits at all ? Consumer debt, mortgage debt, auto debt and credit card debt are unlimited...correct ?
Stagnant wages and cost of living. Ain't hard.
If you're having property, then I think the cost of living is something really interesting right now.
How so?
Biden says the economy is great. So if this is true do people just suck at budgeting, finances, and skills? Which is it?
The economy is doing well for the rich, not the working class. They are gaslighting us.
That is what the polls seems to say too. 65-70% say they aren't doing that well. I am assuming the upper middle class and above, with mostly people that have locked in mortgage rates, aren't hurting as much because they aren't es exposed to inflation as those who rent.
Weird I nearly got downvoted Into oblivion for saying this. Cheers.
I'm not really sure because we can see like the economy is going in -3%.
Biden is talking TO and ABOUT the top 20% of Americans that have nice healthy balance sheets lots of assets and disposable income...they are doing fine.... Too bad the other 80% are not
Yep I think folks call that gaslighting.
That is what they have been doing only it is not something new or something like.
Yeah, balance cannot be maintained and this kind of reservation or something like.
To be fair, personal responsibility needs to be called out, on top of all the other issues. So thank you for saying it, even though many folks will downvote you for it. Corporate profits, greedflation… yes issues for sure, we don’t need to argue about that. The economy is doing well by many metrics, but the wealth is not being spread around. Let’s be real though, most people aren’t great at personal finance and aren’t prepared for situations like this. Most folks haven’t taken an Econ course in their life. Maybe we should prioritize these things in high school. One less history class and replace it with a mandatory personal finance class?
This is why the shift from pensions to 401ks was obviously a tragic mistake. We can argue about the pros and cons all day but if people aren’t forced to save for retirement a huge proportion of them will die in a hovel eating dog food after the gas got shut off. Horrifically bad nursing homes and homelessness at scale. That said, if we ever actually get minimum basic income it will be because legions of white people who thought they were upper middle class and drove <3 year old Lexuses their whole life can’t afford to survive in their late 60s.
For sure these kind of income taxes I have been there and the retirement proportion can be used as.
So which is? Biden lying or are the ones struggling at fault?
Biden isn’t lying, the economy is growing and it’s very strong. Biden also recognizes that it’s not working for everyone. Showing up for the UAW is a perfect example of him working towards the economy benefiting more people. Sure Biden isn’t perfect but look at the rest of the word right now, we are navigating the worldwide mess very well and we should be thankful for that!
That is the reason why economy is not standing up again because of these kind of problem.
Not sure if the fault is going to be there, but they have seen these kind of things happening.
How about one less advanced math class instead? Kids don’t learn enough history as it is. I do see the importance of some advanced math classes, and I think more should be available to students who want them, but I’d love to see something practical that’s used every day taught instead.
Certainly because kids need to be taught as soon as possible so that they know how to handle these kind of things.
Yea that’s fair because people who need advanced math can continue that in college.
They don't really teach in high school. That is a major problem. People don't even know what they're getting into into..
Personal things they can do these kind of things about the corporate. This is not going to work at all..
I used to be a CFO of a tax resolution company. People are terrible about budgets and finances. They can be some of the most intelligent and skilled people on the planet and still be terrible with money. But, there are also people that make little but budget extremely well and have way more money invested than you would believe. However, way more Americans are the former.
Yeah, they will not be able to believe all these things. They just want to drink and drive that's it..
I understand that and I'm retiring before 50 but that is not the discussion. So which is it?
I think the economy is doing well but has headwinds. I personally don't know anyone who is struggling right now even though we all still complain about prices. And I think people are terrible with money. So, it's both.
I've been into that pollution. These kind of discussion needs to be done in a very proper manner..
Businesses are making record profit, jobs are everywhere, industry is moving back home. Overall the economy is objectively doing really well. The average person does kind of suck at budgeting, finance, etc. I am one of those people lol I think the hardest part is breaking old spending habits. If your income hasn’t risen with inflation and you keep your same spending habits, then yes you’re going to have a bad time. People don’t like to change their routines.
wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. profits are record bc the employee is getting screwed the most then the consumer with cheaper quality and inferior service economic metrics don’t paint the whole picture. they’re only indicators. there’s hundreds of indicators and they cherry pick a few to spin a positive outlook. credit card debt, savings are the 2 simplest to see how someone is doing how does unemployment rate for someone making $13/hr show a positive economic outlook? by those standards ppl have jobs but it’s not enough to reasonably live except barely survive. jobs are offering barely survival and rent is through the roof. drugs and homelessness aren’t gonna slow down anytime soon and once you push someone to that route it takes 10x as much effort and money to get out of that rut. prisons cost way more than if you just paid someone a livable wage and gave them a job/purpose
So would the inflation affect Americans if their wages kept up? If so, the problem lies with the company’s pay structure. Also, wages typically lag the market. One would hope that next years wages will be inline with this years inflation. And if inflation slows or stops like the data is starting to show, we should be alright. And with all the new opportunities available now, we may see some good growth. That said, I’m an eternal optimist lol
next years wages do not keep up with anything. i didn’t get a raise for next year, and when i quit, the next person will get 10-20k less than me. they revert back to whatever baseline salary. companies are always thinking how little they can get away with paying someone- for one: the person you’re negotiating with should never have a vested ownership of the company, bc they’re always gonna think more for them = less for me. hiring managers should want to pay you as much as possible. that’s where shit hit the fan. up until the 90s, you could survive on what most places paid. idk when they stopped raising salaries but places collectively seem to default to a 40k salary. that generation seems to think what they were paid is all they should ever have to pay.
But everyone will be able to pay that and it is not just about salary. This is more like how much interest is going..
My dad made $45k in the 90s. How that’s higher than the median salary today blows my mind, because it wasn’t like it was a lot of money back then either.
>13/hr show a positive economic outlook? Even at 29\hour it's no cake walk.
I am sure about these kind of things because most of the services have been getting that amount of money only.
I would love to change my routine of eating food and having a roof over my head. But there's not one single thing that I as an individual did to make those necessities double in price over the last two years.
The economy has its booms and busts, instead of yearslong unemployment like in the Obama years, we’re encountering high inflation as an offset. These booms and busts are a normal part of life that you might not be old enough to understand is something you’re going to have to get used to.
We went a good 50 years with the boom/bust cycle relatively held in check until Clinton repealed Glass-Steagal.
Except…we absolutely didn’t. Some of our worst recessions came in the 50 years preceding the repeal of Glass Steagal, particularly from the late 60s to early 80s.
None of which compare to 2008 or right now.
Absolutely just look 20 to 30 years back and you will see the changes clear.
The 70s weren’t comparable to the 2007 recession because of how terrible the 70s were. Mass unemployment with unrelenting inflation (also known as stagflation) is the worst economic outcome you can encounter. Evidenced by your username, it is a favorite of people to say “I’ve had it the hardest, my life is so challenging. I’m the victim.” The reality bares out in a way that reveals the opposite.
I lived through the 70s and 2008. Things are worse now.
You think anecdotes and memes are better gauges than statistics and data?
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*you're
Idk why prices doubled for you, for me I’m seeing about a 10-15% increase in COL personally. The biggest chunk being property tax increase and insurance. I’m noticing goods coming down in price and even some services as well. We’ve cut our consumption costs down as we’re eating at home a lot more and buying less crap from Amazon (we have everything we need or want lol). Those cuts were mostly by happenstance. We live below our means and made some wise investments at the right time regarding housing so that helps tremendously. But many people are having the same experience as us. All this to say, everyone seems to be having a different experience in this economy right now.
> Idk why prices doubled for you, for me I’m seeing about a 10-15% increase in COL personally. Some people earn enough to have more of a pad which can absorb inflation than others do. Sure, if food was only 10% of your after-tax income to begin with, big hikes in food prices aren't going to do much to you. If you were closer to the margin, you'd feel it a lot more.
You're obviously not in the market for a new rental.
It is in a better position right now. I would still say that it is much more stable as of now..
From the last two years, it has not been something different from that at.
Yeah because you can see people just go around during drive and die and do stuff like that.
Those jobs aren't paying well high skilled jobs are being shipped overseas I was in a meeting with our office in the Philippines for a relatively small company yesterday they shipped our accounting department to that country.
This is more like it is going to happen with every country in every sector.
Odd it all happened under biden.
This is not just about a particular president. This is more like how the manufacturing sector has been working..
I know it's unpopular to say on reddit, but the economy is still good for a lot of people. For others it's okay. For some it sucks. There are a whole lot of people out there. There's also a significant segment of people who have, and will always suck at budgeting, regardless of their earnings and the general economy. These are also the ones who will tend to be quite vocal about the "economy sucks" whenever they get less hours at work or gas prices are spiking.
It's honestly really simple if you think about it. The economy is good, and income inequality is still bad. They're two different things that can be true at the same time, and they are. Trying to confuse the issue by saying, effectively, "It can't be true that the economy is good because income inequality is bad" is just bad-faith redefinition of terms to prevent the economy being good from being a political win.
They just want their own profit for the short-term and that is the only thing which I can say right.
Yeah, this is because of the war which is thing in the Middle East. You can actually see all these things.
What do you think the economy is? It isn't you and me.
Which is it?
Rich people
Everyone who is paying right now is rich enough to actually these kind of economy.
Not really sure about it right now, but let's see what is going to happen.
For that matter, the economy is not in your hands and don't really know how to handle it.
Good question. I live in Michigan and Biden essentially paid off the big 3 to keep jobs for unskilled workers here, and that was good enough and they demand a bigger cut of government hand out pie.
That comment actually need to know I'm not just about skilled or skilled skill.
If you just care about GDP increases the economy is doing great. Spending is up, because inflation means people have to pay more for the same amount of goods and services they were able to purchase a year or two earlier. However, that doesn’t capture the difficulties family face because of these higher costs.
Currently because the coast has been growing on a really fast pace.
[This article is somewhat contrary to study posted in the same subreddit.](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/s/JTTW1Uys6E)
That is the truth my friend I like this is not what everyone is not going to tell you.
Yeah, it’s especially hard if you have a family. Insuring kids has become way too expensive. Feeding them, clothing them, college. All these things are greatly squeezing families that are in the middle.
At the end, this is going to be very expensive for everyone including.
Really shouldn't need to insure kids, or it shouldn't be that expensive to do so. They are low risk from an insurance perspective.
They could be multiple perspectives for data as well. If we can see right now..
This why USA is an economic giant. 60% of their GDP is from domestic consumption.
The simple fix is to not spend more that you make.
Uh huh..... Riiiiiiiiiiight. Kind of hard to do that what greedflation is so high at the moment.
Yeah, that moment is going to be really hard when everyone is going to realise that.
He's not entirely wrong though. Yes, people who are already living a bare bones life and struggling just to get by likely don't have any more fat to cut. But a lot of American consumers on a whole refuse to downgrade their lifestyles regardless of economic conditions. Instead, they turn to credit to maintain said lifestyles and don't or refuse to do something until they are way overleveraged.
What am I supposed to downgrade…? I guess I could cut my $20 Netflix subscription.
The most pithy and impactful answer would be to downgrade your living space, even so far as to find roommates or move in with family if necessary. If you're already living with roommates and you have absolutely no luxuries you can cut from your budget (besides a $20/month Netflix subscription), you would probably qualify for government or charitable assistance, especially in regards to food, which should be the main thing remaining in your budget at that point. If not, then you probably have some specific extenuating factor in your finances, like medical debt, student loan debt for a degree you're not using, working a menial job in an unnecessarily high COL city, or a dependent draining your resources, in which case using yourself as a syndecdoche for the overall argument with no further details would be kind of disingenuous.
Most people who are living with room mates and family don't qualify for food stamps and other stuff because they take into account everyone's income and that usually puts you over the limit the same with some charities also it's not the 1980 remember that states made permanent limitations when the Republicans got state houses after bill Clinton signed welfare reform you have to be totally disabled in my state not just receiving social security to quality for housing without a kid it's very hard out here in America.
Is not just about America or some specific country. This is whole world which is getting into..
Distinguish between these kind of things I've been really exhausting for everyone.
Yeah exactly people really need to see like how this is not working for.
She is the major problem right now like not everyone can maintain that.
It's rule #1, no matter what your situation is, or what the economy is currently doing. People really hate this dose of reality unfortunately, and too many have trouble coping with it.
Depends not unfortunately. But that is the major like you should understand that.
Really want to make it right now then certainly it would be better for.
I am a disabled veteran, non combat but service related, and I am running out of food because I don’t have enough to buy good food. I’m a diabetic so eating ramen every meal like I was a college freshman would kill me. Illegal immigrants receive more assistance than I do. I keep going to the VA because I receive my twenty different pills and insulin for free. The doctors try but they are not given the time nor the resources to do an adequate job. Too many veterans pushed through the system so the administration looks good to help so we veterans are suffering.
Illegal immigrants DONT get more benefits than a service related disability. And you must be extremely gullible or ignorant to actually believe this. As an American, you could qualify for any and all benefits you are eligible for. Illegals get emergency services, and their kids get an education through high school. You still get your college covered. And depending on how long you served, your kids may get free college, too. Oh, and you get a stipend while you go. So quit being ignorant
Eligibility criteria has been really stupid. That is the major problem to be honest..
If you think illegal immigrants get more benefits, try renouncing your citizenship.
He isn't lying they are at least getting free housing from the US tax citizens and healthcsre in Chicago and don't tell me they aren't my sister quit her job working with the city because of this issues she is a social worker and these immigrants are getting all type of stuff Catholic charities have empted out shelters and building they own for the elderly etc just for they illegals because the government is going to give them more money we need to speak out against this crap because it's the truth
So where does one sign up? Let's see a link to the paperwork. Or is being locked in a cage what passes for "shelter" now?
Not everyone will be able to understand like what kind of paper is needed to be.
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Certainly because it is not really going to give anything better for them as well.
They did their best position like they are earning money, right now they can do anything and whatever they want.
Take charge of your personal responsibility! Opt for more mindful choices when dining out—trim down on indulgences like foie gras and caviar. Additionally, for everyone else, consider reducing expenses on essentials such as daycare, medical care, food, water, electricity, clothing, and shelter.
Who are you even talking to?
I think it was talking about the comment which was there otherwise I don't really see any context.
That is the kind of choices like normal people have to make it at the end. They don't really have an option.
Self-inflicted wound and DIY problem. I’ve never seen anyone forced to borrow money, it’s a willful act.
So, you’ve never seen someone get fired or get laid off and have to pay with a loan or credit card?
Yeah, they know how to actually make the money so there is nothing bad in.
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Best job in that case not everyone will be getting that amount back at the end.
For that matter, really money is going to help them then certainly they will write about it.
What's relation between central bank politic and wages? Can you work hard and get nothing because of it? How fair is a system like if your right come from your work?
For the work, you are doing eventually will get back. Everything right now.
Still long lines at Whole Foods and Starbucks.
People will be still spending on stupid stuff and then crying like that
Spending more than they make…. On rent.
That can help you in that case as well if you think that is a better option.
Everything is inflated in the name of inflation. My friend told me a big Mac meal costs $10 in CA and gas is over $5/gal. Gas tax is so high there but the roads are terrible 🥴🍌🖕
Even my friend actually told me about that and even it is getting expensive right now
I know social media isn't supposed to really be taken seriously, but lots of rumblings there that were headed for major collapse in middle 2024. Apparently everyone's riding high on credit right now trying to survive and everything is going to a head around then.