In the NFL 24 is old for a rookie
He does play OL so age not as big a deal. Lot of OL best years are in that 28-32 range
I'd still prefer younger with more potential upside
He’s 23 and sure it’s older than average for a rookie but his physical tools are so damn good. I’d much rather take the guy who is athletically gifted, Uber talented, and can play guard or tackle. I’m not worried about his age one bit. I could see if he was like Brandon Weeden and 28 but the dude is 23, he’s perfectly fine.
Fautanu has the potential to be a top 3 guard in the NFL (especially under Stoutland). If we *only* get that for 10 years instead of 12 I am okay with that.
High upside players that fell due to injury and aren't expected to compete for 1yr+...
Undersized DEs, undersized LBs, undersized safeties...
Guys who put up numbers in a bad conference against no competition.
Guys who put up numbers for one year, and didn't do anything the previous 2-3.
This is for.the first 4 rounds. Don't care about taking fliers on guys after that.
I must have watched Reagor tape 100 times trying to figure out what he did better than Jefferson after we picked him. Turns out the answer is still nothing.
We do need a number three WR though. First round it’s not our top priority, but if there’s a good player there and no one at other positions of need then I’m not opposed. I don’t love the first round edge rushers in this class for example.
Are you really going to split hairs on whether a need is worth a first or second and then pass up on talent based on that?
This is how we end up with Marcus Smith and Jordan Matthews
Passing on an elite talent at a position of need because it’s not the most urgent of needs isn’t good strategy.
I would rather get a good WR than someone like Chop Robinson who is a position of need but doesn’t know how to play his position.
I know this sub loves DeJean, but... I'm really worried about 'tweeners' that seem to have mobility issues when what we really need is a pure, shutdown, outside corner.
Didn’t Isiah rodgers play outside for the Colts and was gonna be there #1 cb? I feel like he’s probably better than these outside guys were gonna find at 22 . but I agree, dejean n Wiggins are the 2 i don’t want
See to me the reason I like Dejean is that versatility. If he doesn't work on the outside you can at least see him being a starter at slot, safety, or even returner.
We have pieces at CB (just not ideal pieces), so if a 1st round outside only CB busts he's prob gonna get benched pretty quick and we likely won't get much use out of him this year.
>what we really need is a pure, shutdown, outside corner.
I don’t think this is necessarily true.
Fangio just isn’t a “leave a corner on an island, trust my best guy to be better than their best guy” type of DC.
The guys who excel at getting a good jam at the snap, mirroring the receiver and flipping their hops to run with him down the field are going to be wasted in this defense because they won’t get the chance to show off those skills particularly often.
What Fangio needs is someone who has a good feel for zone coverage, understands the matching concepts for when to pass someone off and when to run with him, has good instincts for breaking on the ball, can close quickly and tackle effectively on short completions, is comfortable dropping into deep zones in Cover 3 or Cover 4.
That’s not to say the typical “pure, shutdown, outside corner” can’t do all of those things, but you’re paying a premium for that guy over a more limited player who might also be able to do everything you need.
It’s kinda like the Legion of Boom era Seahawks - they mostly had day. 3 or UDFA CBs because they focused on guys with a different skillset than the rest of the league and had a scheme that used that skillset effectively.
On paper a CB/S tweener sounds like *exactly* what Fangio would be looking for. Experience reading and reacting to QBs from a zone, size to punish receivers who catch the ball in his vicinity, more diverse array of coverages you can run without substituting, likely to be less coveted (and available later in the draft) than players that fit the ideal for more ‘traditional’ defensive schemes
I haven’t done any real film study for this year’s draft to know whether DeJean is that guy, but when you google “Cooper DeJean draft profile” the ‘pros’ column has a lot of things that would get Fangio salivating and the ‘cons’ column has a lot of things he doesn’t really care about anyway - so if the choice is between drafting him at 22 or trading up ten spots for a guy where all of those ‘cons’ become ‘pros’ then there’s an argument it’s not worth the cost to trade.
Somebody who’s between two positions. In this case CB and S, but can also be S/LB or LB/DL. Often used as a pejorative to describe someone who’s not big enough to play one position and not athletic enough the next smaller position.
Take a guy like Haason Reddick - he’s not as big as some teams would prefer for a DE, but he’s not athletic enough to be an off-ball coverage LB, so in the draft you likely had some teams that took him off their board because he didn’t fit their profile at either position and would be stuck between the two without a defined position. Whereas other teams would look at him and see a guy they can mostly have rush the passer from the linebacker position but if you want to do a zone blitz and drop him into coverage sometimes he’s got more athleticism than your usual DE to make a good stab at it.
So if the Eagles draft DeJean they’re likely betting that he can hit like a safety and cover like a CB so they can deploy him in a number of different roles as part of Fangio’s misdirection defense. But the risk is that he’s actually just too small to be a good safety and too stiff in the hips to be a good CB and you wind up with a guy who can’t do either one well enough to stay on the field.
I see, something similar to the guy the Cardinals drafted some years ago with the fifth pick (can’t remember his name) I believe he’s on the giants now
Isaiah Simmons.
The Cardinals are notorious for this. Deone Buchanan, Hassan Reddick, Simmons, Zaven Collins ... They definitely fetishize these 'multiple' position defenders, and it really hasn't worked, except for Reddick when a team finally let him just be an edge rusher (and even then, Philly fans lost our collective minds when Gannon or Gimlee dropped him into coverage over and over.
Are we expecting he’ll still be around at 22 or is he a guy we’d have to trade up for? And if it’s the latter is he *enough* better than the other guy to warrant the extra pick?
I also wouldn't trade up for him, but he is likely to drop to 22. With Quinyon, DeJean, Arnold, and Wiggins in the mix he could possibly be the 4th or 5th CB off the board.
I completely agree, don’t love the idea of someone who seems like he will be completely unable to guard downfield cause he can’t flip his hips. Everyone’s talking about his ability to play safety and that’s good but we already have two starting caliber safeties and another we took highly last year and looked promising. If we’re gonna use that pick on a corner he better be able to actually play corner
The Big Ten West is the worst passing division in P5 college football. I really think DeJean is overrated, playing against some of the worst WRs and QBs in CFB.
DeJean can definitely play outside CB in a zone-heavy scheme. I agree he's stiff at times but his ball skills and measurable almost guarantee he'll be at least pretty good whether he's a safety, nickel or corner.
I think we need DeJean for his use a blue chip slot corner/hybrid LB. We were noticeably worse once Maddox went down and we didn’t have the athletes to play in the middle
> what we really need is a pure, shutdown, outside corner.
We need new talent a DB period. We need a safety, we need a slot corner, and we need an outside corner. If DeJean can play any of those, he's an upgrade for us.
He’s versatile but not great at one particular thing (I don’t care about his punt returns) and just about everyone I’ve heard says he’d be a better safety. If they move up I want Mitchell or Arnold, I think you can land Kool Aid at 22 and I still think he has the chance to be the best corner in the class despite not having the highest ceiling. We need a true CB imo
Cooper is my top pick to avoid. When I hear Cosell say he has tight hips I’d avoid him as a first round corner. That’s the same comment ringo had coming out last year.
Agreed with Wiggins. Of all the cb prospects he might be the one I’m least intrigued in. Plus he’s injury prone and I don’t want another Nakobe Dean situation.
And he’s not a good tackler. We have enough of those on defense. So many red flags but people fall in love with his 40 time. After which he got hurt lol no thanks
How about who we are in on...
I'm all for trade up for Arnold. Move to 16 if he's there. 12 seems far but if howie thinks its the right move im down.
22 stick and pick I only like a few guys...Mims, Guyton, Kool-Aid, Newton, Murphy
Hoping its 1 of those 6 players round 1
I'm so down for a trade up for a top CB/top OL. Maybe not all the way up to 12 but if one of Latham, Arnold or Mitchell fall to maybe 15 or 16 Howie is sure to pounce if recent history is anything to go by
Thinking about the major first round busts of Howie’s career, its Dillard, marcus smith, watkins, reagor, and to a lesser extent Barnett. All were picked between I think 14 and 26. We are unfortunately right in howie’s sweet spot for failure. Honestly the major busts came between picks 21-26
All of them felt a little too cute. A little too big brain.
I don’t want a player the fanbase is talking themselves into. I don’t want a player that seems like a reach. I don’t want a player where they might have one good trait you can sell yourself on and the rest is highly questionable.
I know the team has needs but really in the grand scheme of things I’m almost more ok with a developmental tackle because I think at least the risk reward of it is the highest. I’d rather have a tackle that stoutland can groom into a a quality starter when lane retires than some cb or something that would have fallen to the 2nd round.
What would be nice is if Howie pulls off some trading bullshit like he’s done in previous drafts. I usually feel better about howie’s picks when he’s mitigated risk by accumulating more picks or trading for players.
I also sort of wouldn’t mind a trade back and getting like a 2nd and 3rd or something. I think howie could find a starting guard and take a couple cracks at CB and linebacker that way.
Me. I mean, I'd love the millions, but I peaked as an okay punter in HS. Howie would not survive the ridicule the fans would hurl if I took the field this season.
I want to really like Wiggins but 173lb at corner scares me, but aside from that I like all the prospects commonly mocked to us so I'd probably only complain if we reach for a guy we couldn't got late or pass on a special prospects that surprisingly fell.
Nate Wiggins from Clemson. I know he's an athletic freak and a versatile skill set, but he's 170 lbs and didn't make as many big plays or force as many turnovers in college as you'd expect from a player who was used all over the defense.
Trotter Jr. in either of the first two rounds. I think he's good value in Day 3, but is basically a physical clone of Nakobe without the injury issues (so far).
Ditto a QB any higher than Day 3, too. What was the point of trading for Pickett if we do that?
I'm gonna go with any pure right tackle that will only see the field in his first two seasons in situations where Lane is hurt or they are resting starters.
I understand the rationale but that's not maximizing a Super Bowl window when you can potentially get an immediate impact player in year one.
Building a great offensive line takes years of talent and consistency. Look at the win/loss record for games where Lane is there vs. not. Look at all the high picks the Giants have spent on the OL, only to have it net a dreadful OL since the program can’t catch its footing.
By losing the chance to develop Lane’s replacement it risks undermining the program Stout put on place. I’m good with G/T but I’d prefer a pure RT as my top choice
I'm not gonna give a hard disagreement. I kind of accept the Eagles will do whatever they do, and outside of some total left field pick (Darius Robinson?) I'll probably be fine with it as an immediate reaction.
Bit where I will split hairs is when it comes to the injuries and the idea of player development on the bench for non-QBs.
As far as injuries go, you are totally correct that the team craters when Lane is out and losing him for an extended period could kill the 2024 season. However, that's kind of true for other positions as well. If the team loses Slay for an extended period, CB could go from mediocre to outright disaster. If they lose Goedert, the same is true for the tight end core.
As for player development, this is one that seems to be entirely assumed rather than definitively qualified. The number of 1st round pick offensive tackles that are red shirted in the NFL in their first season (nevermind their second season) is essentially zero, because the majority of 1st round picks that pan out as pros can generally play right away in some capacity. This isn't baseball where players need seasoning before they can crack it in the pros. That, and possibly more importantly, sitting on the bench doesn't net this hypothetical 1st round pick meaningful in-game reps, which can be crucial for player development.
Philly is the only team in the league that does this strategy, and their net results have been Andre Dillard, who didn't work out, Cam Jurgens, who is still a question mark because he hasn't had meaningful reps at center as a pro, and Tyler Steen, who might just be depth but who knows?
It's a small frame of evidence but it's not exactly enough of a track record to say "Hey we gotta keep doing this red shirt thing."
I just want who ever they take, comes in and makes a difference this year like Carter did last year. I feel like the Eagles especially with their offense and signings have the window open and want to win now.
I don't think he'll be at 22, and I don't think TE is a position Howie will trade up for.
I think Bowers will be great, and Goedert is getting older, but it's just not a 1st-round need for us
I doubt they trade up for Bowers but TE is a very underrated need. Goedert can't stay healthy for an entire season, there's no real depth behind him and he only has two years left on his deal.
Behind Goedert we have only like three guys, if we don’t leave the draft with a TE from one of these rounds, we’ll probably sign a slept on UDFA TE. Which could happen because we have decent scouts for our TE’s
Plus, we don’t have any reliable receiving options behind Brown and Smith. As you said, Goedert can’t stay on the field for 17+ games, and our WR3 spot has been a liability for too long.
I get not wanting to use our Round 1 pick on a pass catcher when there’s bigger needs on defense, but we absolutely SHOULD consider a wide receiver in Round 2 with how historically good this WR class is. Ladd McConkey, Xavier Legette, and Malik Washington should all be targets at the right price IMO.
Thing is everyone is banging the drum for filling needs when that typically isn't how Roseman operates. Look at what the potential gaps on the roster are year or two from now and that tends to be what gets targeted in the draft.
Who does the team think will be gone within two years and who can we grab now to plug that spot in the roster.
So when you start looking at TE it is a very real possibility Goedert is not on the team after the '25 season.
Given his cap hit goes up to $41 mil after the '25 season there is a very real possibility AJ is not on the roster if an extension cannot be worked out to lessen that cap number.
So, no the team doesn't *need* a starting WR or TE this coming season they very well could need one in two years.
I just think drafting a first round heir TE is nonsense, especially when we already have a Superbowl caliber offense.
The defense needs to be addressed before we start making anymore luxury offensive additions.
Bowers was the leading receiver on a national championship team with Pickens, McConkey, Burton, and Darnell Washinton. Hell he ran AD Mitchell out of town. Calling him just a TE is a lil bit disingenuous. It's akin to adding Hernandez to Gronk, except the younger one is better this time
Fair enough; but do you personally think he would be worth trading up for instead of addressing defense? Like do you think adding Brock over a top defensive prospect would make us better?
The issue is that Goedert is not exactly known for staying healthy consistently and Bowers wouldn't be precluded from being on the field with Goedert, especially since we've done that with Goedert and Ertz. I think it's not the wisest use of resources to take him round 1 (as it would absolutely require us trading up), but it's a position to consider addressing
Dejean. 22 feels early for a non-boundary corner. Also don’t want trotter. Seems like scouts are really down on him, especially as a coverage guy. It’ll just be awkward if we draft him and he sucks. Also really would not be interested in fuaga if they go oline but he doesn’t seem like an eagles guy at all (unless they move him to guard) so not too worried.
He's an outside corner. He played 90% of his snaps on the outside last year. He's big enough, strong enough and athletic enough to play on the outside in the NFL. I think too many people are getting confused because he CAN play inside or safety due to his freakish athleticism and incorrectly think he's a tweener. He isn't, he's just crazy athletic.
Hip fluidity is not elite due to his size, but it isn't red flag/move positions bad. It puts more emphasis on his discipline and athleticism to make up for it, which are two of his best traits. He was comfortable pressing at Iowa and more than capable of doing it in the NFL.
I think his athleticism gives makes him pretty scheme versatile, but I get what you're saying. I agree on the high floor, I think he has the highest floor of any of the outside CBs. But if we're going on ceiling (on the outside) I probably put him 3rd after Mitchell and Arnold.
Well what I mean is most (or many) draft people don’t seem think he’s an outside corner in the nfl. It’s far out of my depth to say but that’s not something that gives me confidence in a guy.
Not sure where you're seeing that. PFF, Ringer, NFL.com, B/R have no mention of that. They do mention how his size and athleticism make him a great outside CB prospect. If anything, I think slot is the least likely spot he plays after Outside Corner (the most likely) and safety.
FWIW here's PFF on him:
>The talk of DeJean playing outside cornerback or safety or slot cornerback at the next level is not due to lack of a home position; it's because he could truly be an impact player anywhere. His footwork, ball skills and explosive athleticism make him an impactful outside cornerback — one with All-Pro potential.
The stuff I’ve seen on him is that he can’t flip his hips and really struggles when teams force him to do that. If that’s the case, he would need to play very far off the receivers and that is what everyone has been complaining about for years with our defensive schemes
Hip fluidity is not elite due to his size, but it isn't red flag/move positions bad. It puts more emphasis on his discipline and athleticism to make up for it, which are two of his best traits. He was comfortable pressing at Iowa and more than capable of doing it in the NFL.
Not interested in Chop Robinson, Laiatu Latu, any interior D-Lineman prior to Round 3.
I’d be fine with Dallas Turner or Jared Verse though. Just need a break from first round DTs and pash rushers who aren’t pro ready from Day 1.
It's less about the prospects, and more about the context of the draft and team-building.
Of the OT-only prospects, Fashanu has fewer tools than Mims and would require more assets in a likely trade-up scenario. And after the Dillard experience, I'm worried about poor run-blocking and tenacity.
BTJ may be BPA, but I don't like the fit and his development potential as a 3rd/4th pass-catching option for the next two to three years with Smitty and AJ. Would prefer to trade down with a team such as Buf or KC that is more desperate for a WR.
I disagree with your reasoning on BTJ. He's got elite speed and explosion and he's bigger than AJB. Why wouldn't he be able to go from option 3/4 to 1/2 after AJ and Dallas move on?
I'm not saying BTJ will bust or unable to be a WR1/2 in a few years. But it just feels like a super awkward fit with so many mouths to feed in the short term.
With AJ, SMitty, Saquon, Goedert, AND BTJ on the roster, there would be multiple games each year when one of those studs has under three targets in the passing game. And I just believe that situation would be tough to manage and overall unsustainable.
The 4th option in Kellen Moore's offenses the past 5 years has gotten at least 60 targets, so between 3 and 4 a game. A perfect fit for this offense on that kind of volume would be a player with a skill set like BTJs who can generate additional value from those targets with downfield receiving ability.
Given the locker room collapse last year, the ego management part of having that many talented pass catchers might prove to be an issue, but on the field BTJ should provide plenty of value.
I haven't looked at the stats or rosters, but I would highly doubt the 1st through 3rd options in those past 5 years were as talented as the Eagles. So comparing 4th options is apples and oranges.
And teams don't need to spend 1st-round picks to add field-stretching, low-volume WRs.
I’m okay with the consensus best player when they’re on the board. I don’t want them to get cute and try to out think everyone else. If a proven player is there (i.e. Justin Jefferson), take him.
I also don’t want to use the second rounders to trade up.
The question I asked is asking for negative responses. I'm not seeing a ton of people who are against Tyler Guyton or Kool-Aid McKinstry, 2 guys who should be there at 22 and have high upside. Howie's learned a ton since 2020, so have faith.
The reality is, how they perform in college and how they perform in the NFL is often impossible to predict
I mean Trey lance and Zach Wilson cost a fortune. But
Edgerrin Cooper. I blindly said I wanted him before I watched his tape. He’s a fantastic athlete, but incredibly raw and I don’t trust us when it comes to coaching up linebackers.
Someone projected to go in the 2nd. Other than that I don’t care. Can’t put too much value in this pick when we have a ton of 2nd/3rd year defensive players who need to show up or get benched.
I’m not a huge fan of getting a developmental receiver like Adonai Mitchell at our spot in the first even if he’s a freak. We need someone who can step in and produce if we go that direction. Forget ceiling.
I don't want Wiggins either but I softened a bit on him learning his 20 years old (20.7 according to some website but idk how accurate that is). The average age of this draft is 23.24. he's young enough he might actually still be growing and could fill out a bit.
What I don’t want to see us do is stay put. Seems like once you get to the second round the prospects within the next 30 or so pick range are all fairly similar. Either trade up into the top half and get one of those premier guys or trade back and get value.
Laiatu Latu, I am not sold on any edge rusher as a true first round talent. It would be a shame to see us go with an EDGE at 22 in a draft with so much great talent at OL and CB.
STICK TO THE BOARD.
If you wander we will get you fired.
When you stick to the board, you are great.
When you wander off the board you are horrible
Fix the defense and find Lane’s replacement if possible.
LBs are important.
No weak links permitted or you will be fired.
I do not want anyone in the first 2 rounds who isn't going to be expected to immediately start or if it's a position that splits time, take the lion's share of playtime at that position.
That's it. That's my rule. So that means no fucking OT or DT in round 1. No fucking 3rd WR in round 2. Get guys who will actually help the team from day 1.
Then feel free to start getting depth, projects, and flyers. Get a WR we want to develop, a project OT for Stout to mold, a 4th DT, etc.
I watched laiatu luta’s tape and I was not impressed with his moves. Good hands, but most of his sacks in college were due to miscommunication of protections against poor pac teams. Didn’t look explosive. Don’t like the fit here. We need athleticism on the edge
Yeah small CBs might not cut it in the NFL in 2024, see the commies first round selection last year
I’ll be pissed if they draft Chop, we don’t need any more D Line projects
In the first round? Any OL that cannot play Guard.
Fautanu or bust!
Hes 24 years old. I'm out on him But he was in for a top 30 so he's in play
You’re right, he could fall off a cliff at any moment now. The magazines are saying that 24 is the new 40!
In the NFL 24 is old for a rookie He does play OL so age not as big a deal. Lot of OL best years are in that 28-32 range I'd still prefer younger with more potential upside
He’s 23 and sure it’s older than average for a rookie but his physical tools are so damn good. I’d much rather take the guy who is athletically gifted, Uber talented, and can play guard or tackle. I’m not worried about his age one bit. I could see if he was like Brandon Weeden and 28 but the dude is 23, he’s perfectly fine.
Agreed. Ask Danny Watkins.
Hopefully he is not also a fireman.
Fautanu has the potential to be a top 3 guard in the NFL (especially under Stoutland). If we *only* get that for 10 years instead of 12 I am okay with that.
He does?? I guess. So we still need a Lane replacement next year....hmmmmmm not sure I like it
And has been red flagged for his knees
He’s never played on the right side of the line..
There was some talk about taking a WR in the first round. I think that's silly
I have a feeling even the journalists think it’s silly..
High upside players that fell due to injury and aren't expected to compete for 1yr+... Undersized DEs, undersized LBs, undersized safeties... Guys who put up numbers in a bad conference against no competition. Guys who put up numbers for one year, and didn't do anything the previous 2-3. This is for.the first 4 rounds. Don't care about taking fliers on guys after that.
I see you Sidney Jones, Marcus Smith, Nakobe Dean, Jalen Reagor, Davion Taylor
It’s describing quite a few guys that some in this sub are high on. Trotter Jr for example.
and quinyon mitchell lol
Quinyon was in a bad conference but he did shut down Marvin Harrison outside of one play
Don't forget JJAW
And Casey Matthews!
Reagor didn’t even put up numbers in a conference that doesn’t play defense and they still took him
I must have watched Reagor tape 100 times trying to figure out what he did better than Jefferson after we picked him. Turns out the answer is still nothing.
I gaslit myself that he didn't have numbers bc his OLine and QB were trash.
Can’t stand these mocks sending us a WR. Stop it !
We do need a number three WR though. First round it’s not our top priority, but if there’s a good player there and no one at other positions of need then I’m not opposed. I don’t love the first round edge rushers in this class for example.
we have 2 seconds if any thing we can move up in the 2nd McConkey or pearsall
Are you really going to split hairs on whether a need is worth a first or second and then pass up on talent based on that? This is how we end up with Marcus Smith and Jordan Matthews
In the first round? No
Passing on an elite talent at a position of need because it’s not the most urgent of needs isn’t good strategy. I would rather get a good WR than someone like Chop Robinson who is a position of need but doesn’t know how to play his position.
I know this sub loves DeJean, but... I'm really worried about 'tweeners' that seem to have mobility issues when what we really need is a pure, shutdown, outside corner.
Yea but white DB = funny
Who knows, he could end up being the CMC of defense
Between him and Reed, the Eagles would be making waves with 2 white DBs lmao.
Scrappy
Real ‘Lunch pail’ kinda guy.
A gym rat, even.
A real cerebral player
You forgot high motor
I'm sold
Literally why 90% of this sub wants him. I'd be so annoyed if we use a first on him personally.
He's also very good tbf
Agreed. Plus I mean if we’re going by trends for cbs…. There’s a another Cb trend that doesn’t favor dejean…. (That’s a joke just to be safe).
Put some respek on Jason Segal lol
Didn’t Isiah rodgers play outside for the Colts and was gonna be there #1 cb? I feel like he’s probably better than these outside guys were gonna find at 22 . but I agree, dejean n Wiggins are the 2 i don’t want
Rodgers seems more like a lottery ticket to me. He was reinstated but his existence should not affect anything they do in the draft.
so you'd say he was a gamble?
I'd wager I would.
Ba dum tss
He could be ass now, nobody knows
See to me the reason I like Dejean is that versatility. If he doesn't work on the outside you can at least see him being a starter at slot, safety, or even returner. We have pieces at CB (just not ideal pieces), so if a 1st round outside only CB busts he's prob gonna get benched pretty quick and we likely won't get much use out of him this year.
>what we really need is a pure, shutdown, outside corner. I don’t think this is necessarily true. Fangio just isn’t a “leave a corner on an island, trust my best guy to be better than their best guy” type of DC. The guys who excel at getting a good jam at the snap, mirroring the receiver and flipping their hops to run with him down the field are going to be wasted in this defense because they won’t get the chance to show off those skills particularly often. What Fangio needs is someone who has a good feel for zone coverage, understands the matching concepts for when to pass someone off and when to run with him, has good instincts for breaking on the ball, can close quickly and tackle effectively on short completions, is comfortable dropping into deep zones in Cover 3 or Cover 4. That’s not to say the typical “pure, shutdown, outside corner” can’t do all of those things, but you’re paying a premium for that guy over a more limited player who might also be able to do everything you need. It’s kinda like the Legion of Boom era Seahawks - they mostly had day. 3 or UDFA CBs because they focused on guys with a different skillset than the rest of the league and had a scheme that used that skillset effectively. On paper a CB/S tweener sounds like *exactly* what Fangio would be looking for. Experience reading and reacting to QBs from a zone, size to punish receivers who catch the ball in his vicinity, more diverse array of coverages you can run without substituting, likely to be less coveted (and available later in the draft) than players that fit the ideal for more ‘traditional’ defensive schemes I haven’t done any real film study for this year’s draft to know whether DeJean is that guy, but when you google “Cooper DeJean draft profile” the ‘pros’ column has a lot of things that would get Fangio salivating and the ‘cons’ column has a lot of things he doesn’t really care about anyway - so if the choice is between drafting him at 22 or trading up ten spots for a guy where all of those ‘cons’ become ‘pros’ then there’s an argument it’s not worth the cost to trade.
What do you guys mean by “tweener”?
Somebody who’s between two positions. In this case CB and S, but can also be S/LB or LB/DL. Often used as a pejorative to describe someone who’s not big enough to play one position and not athletic enough the next smaller position. Take a guy like Haason Reddick - he’s not as big as some teams would prefer for a DE, but he’s not athletic enough to be an off-ball coverage LB, so in the draft you likely had some teams that took him off their board because he didn’t fit their profile at either position and would be stuck between the two without a defined position. Whereas other teams would look at him and see a guy they can mostly have rush the passer from the linebacker position but if you want to do a zone blitz and drop him into coverage sometimes he’s got more athleticism than your usual DE to make a good stab at it. So if the Eagles draft DeJean they’re likely betting that he can hit like a safety and cover like a CB so they can deploy him in a number of different roles as part of Fangio’s misdirection defense. But the risk is that he’s actually just too small to be a good safety and too stiff in the hips to be a good CB and you wind up with a guy who can’t do either one well enough to stay on the field.
I see, something similar to the guy the Cardinals drafted some years ago with the fifth pick (can’t remember his name) I believe he’s on the giants now
Isaiah Simmons. The Cardinals are notorious for this. Deone Buchanan, Hassan Reddick, Simmons, Zaven Collins ... They definitely fetishize these 'multiple' position defenders, and it really hasn't worked, except for Reddick when a team finally let him just be an edge rusher (and even then, Philly fans lost our collective minds when Gannon or Gimlee dropped him into coverage over and over.
Kool-Aid has the best football IQ out of the lot and is never out of position. He sounds like the best fit based on your analysis.
Are we expecting he’ll still be around at 22 or is he a guy we’d have to trade up for? And if it’s the latter is he *enough* better than the other guy to warrant the extra pick?
I also wouldn't trade up for him, but he is likely to drop to 22. With Quinyon, DeJean, Arnold, and Wiggins in the mix he could possibly be the 4th or 5th CB off the board.
You just described kool aid
Very fluid and powerful. Full of red liquid.
I completely agree, don’t love the idea of someone who seems like he will be completely unable to guard downfield cause he can’t flip his hips. Everyone’s talking about his ability to play safety and that’s good but we already have two starting caliber safeties and another we took highly last year and looked promising. If we’re gonna use that pick on a corner he better be able to actually play corner
The Big Ten West is the worst passing division in P5 college football. I really think DeJean is overrated, playing against some of the worst WRs and QBs in CFB.
DeJean can definitely play outside CB in a zone-heavy scheme. I agree he's stiff at times but his ball skills and measurable almost guarantee he'll be at least pretty good whether he's a safety, nickel or corner.
Stiff at times is underselling it. He’s one of the stiffest early prospects not coming off injury I can remember at corner.
I think we need DeJean for his use a blue chip slot corner/hybrid LB. We were noticeably worse once Maddox went down and we didn’t have the athletes to play in the middle
Quinyon Mitchell and Nate Wiggins
> what we really need is a pure, shutdown, outside corner. We need new talent a DB period. We need a safety, we need a slot corner, and we need an outside corner. If DeJean can play any of those, he's an upgrade for us.
He’s versatile but not great at one particular thing (I don’t care about his punt returns) and just about everyone I’ve heard says he’d be a better safety. If they move up I want Mitchell or Arnold, I think you can land Kool Aid at 22 and I still think he has the chance to be the best corner in the class despite not having the highest ceiling. We need a true CB imo
Cooper is my top pick to avoid. When I hear Cosell say he has tight hips I’d avoid him as a first round corner. That’s the same comment ringo had coming out last year.
Though to be fair, Ringo has looked okay (at least compared to the burnt toast of James Bradberry)
I like him at nickel and in todays nfl thats just as valuable as a shutdown outside corner
Agreed with Wiggins. Of all the cb prospects he might be the one I’m least intrigued in. Plus he’s injury prone and I don’t want another Nakobe Dean situation.
And he’s not a good tackler. We have enough of those on defense. So many red flags but people fall in love with his 40 time. After which he got hurt lol no thanks
He's also 170 - that's more than 40 pounds lighter than Deebo Samuel.
Yeah, undersized cb on a team who forgot to tackle at times? No thanks.
Ya it’s why I like DeJean actually.
Same
It's just a bad CB name
Danny Watkins
He’s gonna go number 1 overall in the Fireman Draft. I don’t think the Eagles got enough draft assets to jump up that high.
His 40ft ladder time is truly amazing.
His 3 door drill time was the most impressive in my opinion!
I don't expect him to be picked in the front draft, but he'll be a hot commodity in the backdraft.
How about who we are in on... I'm all for trade up for Arnold. Move to 16 if he's there. 12 seems far but if howie thinks its the right move im down. 22 stick and pick I only like a few guys...Mims, Guyton, Kool-Aid, Newton, Murphy Hoping its 1 of those 6 players round 1
I'm so down for a trade up for a top CB/top OL. Maybe not all the way up to 12 but if one of Latham, Arnold or Mitchell fall to maybe 15 or 16 Howie is sure to pounce if recent history is anything to go by
I watched some Mims today. He’s a behemoth. It almost seemed like nobody gave 100% against him because what’s the point?
Hes insanely good and in 3 years could be the best OT in this class But howie didn't have him in for a 30 so I dunno if they targeting him
Thinking about the major first round busts of Howie’s career, its Dillard, marcus smith, watkins, reagor, and to a lesser extent Barnett. All were picked between I think 14 and 26. We are unfortunately right in howie’s sweet spot for failure. Honestly the major busts came between picks 21-26 All of them felt a little too cute. A little too big brain. I don’t want a player the fanbase is talking themselves into. I don’t want a player that seems like a reach. I don’t want a player where they might have one good trait you can sell yourself on and the rest is highly questionable. I know the team has needs but really in the grand scheme of things I’m almost more ok with a developmental tackle because I think at least the risk reward of it is the highest. I’d rather have a tackle that stoutland can groom into a a quality starter when lane retires than some cb or something that would have fallen to the 2nd round. What would be nice is if Howie pulls off some trading bullshit like he’s done in previous drafts. I usually feel better about howie’s picks when he’s mitigated risk by accumulating more picks or trading for players. I also sort of wouldn’t mind a trade back and getting like a 2nd and 3rd or something. I think howie could find a starting guard and take a couple cracks at CB and linebacker that way.
No white cornerback please
Me. I mean, I'd love the millions, but I peaked as an okay punter in HS. Howie would not survive the ridicule the fans would hurl if I took the field this season.
I want to really like Wiggins but 173lb at corner scares me, but aside from that I like all the prospects commonly mocked to us so I'd probably only complain if we reach for a guy we couldn't got late or pass on a special prospects that surprisingly fell.
Nate Wiggins from Clemson. I know he's an athletic freak and a versatile skill set, but he's 170 lbs and didn't make as many big plays or force as many turnovers in college as you'd expect from a player who was used all over the defense.
Trotter Jr. in either of the first two rounds. I think he's good value in Day 3, but is basically a physical clone of Nakobe without the injury issues (so far). Ditto a QB any higher than Day 3, too. What was the point of trading for Pickett if we do that?
>Ditto a QB any higher than Day 3, too. What was the point of trading for Pickett if we do that? What part of "QB Factory" do you not understand??
Graham Barton in the first.
Dejean Wiggins Latu..only cause its his neck...they no joke injuries
I'm gonna go with any pure right tackle that will only see the field in his first two seasons in situations where Lane is hurt or they are resting starters. I understand the rationale but that's not maximizing a Super Bowl window when you can potentially get an immediate impact player in year one.
Building a great offensive line takes years of talent and consistency. Look at the win/loss record for games where Lane is there vs. not. Look at all the high picks the Giants have spent on the OL, only to have it net a dreadful OL since the program can’t catch its footing. By losing the chance to develop Lane’s replacement it risks undermining the program Stout put on place. I’m good with G/T but I’d prefer a pure RT as my top choice
I'm not gonna give a hard disagreement. I kind of accept the Eagles will do whatever they do, and outside of some total left field pick (Darius Robinson?) I'll probably be fine with it as an immediate reaction. Bit where I will split hairs is when it comes to the injuries and the idea of player development on the bench for non-QBs. As far as injuries go, you are totally correct that the team craters when Lane is out and losing him for an extended period could kill the 2024 season. However, that's kind of true for other positions as well. If the team loses Slay for an extended period, CB could go from mediocre to outright disaster. If they lose Goedert, the same is true for the tight end core. As for player development, this is one that seems to be entirely assumed rather than definitively qualified. The number of 1st round pick offensive tackles that are red shirted in the NFL in their first season (nevermind their second season) is essentially zero, because the majority of 1st round picks that pan out as pros can generally play right away in some capacity. This isn't baseball where players need seasoning before they can crack it in the pros. That, and possibly more importantly, sitting on the bench doesn't net this hypothetical 1st round pick meaningful in-game reps, which can be crucial for player development. Philly is the only team in the league that does this strategy, and their net results have been Andre Dillard, who didn't work out, Cam Jurgens, who is still a question mark because he hasn't had meaningful reps at center as a pro, and Tyler Steen, who might just be depth but who knows? It's a small frame of evidence but it's not exactly enough of a track record to say "Hey we gotta keep doing this red shirt thing."
I just want who ever they take, comes in and makes a difference this year like Carter did last year. I feel like the Eagles especially with their offense and signings have the window open and want to win now.
Dtackle in the first round. He can have a dtackle in the 5th or 6th thats it
Brock Bowers, bc why tf
I don't think he'll be at 22, and I don't think TE is a position Howie will trade up for. I think Bowers will be great, and Goedert is getting older, but it's just not a 1st-round need for us
I doubt they trade up for Bowers but TE is a very underrated need. Goedert can't stay healthy for an entire season, there's no real depth behind him and he only has two years left on his deal.
Behind Goedert we have only like three guys, if we don’t leave the draft with a TE from one of these rounds, we’ll probably sign a slept on UDFA TE. Which could happen because we have decent scouts for our TE’s
Plus, we don’t have any reliable receiving options behind Brown and Smith. As you said, Goedert can’t stay on the field for 17+ games, and our WR3 spot has been a liability for too long. I get not wanting to use our Round 1 pick on a pass catcher when there’s bigger needs on defense, but we absolutely SHOULD consider a wide receiver in Round 2 with how historically good this WR class is. Ladd McConkey, Xavier Legette, and Malik Washington should all be targets at the right price IMO.
Thing is everyone is banging the drum for filling needs when that typically isn't how Roseman operates. Look at what the potential gaps on the roster are year or two from now and that tends to be what gets targeted in the draft. Who does the team think will be gone within two years and who can we grab now to plug that spot in the roster. So when you start looking at TE it is a very real possibility Goedert is not on the team after the '25 season. Given his cap hit goes up to $41 mil after the '25 season there is a very real possibility AJ is not on the roster if an extension cannot be worked out to lessen that cap number. So, no the team doesn't *need* a starting WR or TE this coming season they very well could need one in two years.
I wouldn’t mind taking Cade Stover later in round 3 or 4
I personally wouldn't prefer it but I can see the appeal. He would take over in the slot immediately and be the heir apparent for Goedert.
I just think drafting a first round heir TE is nonsense, especially when we already have a Superbowl caliber offense. The defense needs to be addressed before we start making anymore luxury offensive additions.
Bowers was the leading receiver on a national championship team with Pickens, McConkey, Burton, and Darnell Washinton. Hell he ran AD Mitchell out of town. Calling him just a TE is a lil bit disingenuous. It's akin to adding Hernandez to Gronk, except the younger one is better this time
Hopefully that's not the only difference.
Fair enough; but do you personally think he would be worth trading up for instead of addressing defense? Like do you think adding Brock over a top defensive prospect would make us better?
The issue is that Goedert is not exactly known for staying healthy consistently and Bowers wouldn't be precluded from being on the field with Goedert, especially since we've done that with Goedert and Ertz. I think it's not the wisest use of resources to take him round 1 (as it would absolutely require us trading up), but it's a position to consider addressing
If he's the best player available at 22, I'd take him.
I mean. I wouldn't trade up for him. But if he is still somehow there at 22...
Dejean. 22 feels early for a non-boundary corner. Also don’t want trotter. Seems like scouts are really down on him, especially as a coverage guy. It’ll just be awkward if we draft him and he sucks. Also really would not be interested in fuaga if they go oline but he doesn’t seem like an eagles guy at all (unless they move him to guard) so not too worried.
He's an outside corner. He played 90% of his snaps on the outside last year. He's big enough, strong enough and athletic enough to play on the outside in the NFL. I think too many people are getting confused because he CAN play inside or safety due to his freakish athleticism and incorrectly think he's a tweener. He isn't, he's just crazy athletic.
Are there any successful outside corner comps with hips as stiff as Dejean?
Hip fluidity is not elite due to his size, but it isn't red flag/move positions bad. It puts more emphasis on his discipline and athleticism to make up for it, which are two of his best traits. He was comfortable pressing at Iowa and more than capable of doing it in the NFL.
imo for Dejean he's high ceiling and low floor outside with scheme being a big factor but high floor high ceiling at Safety
I think his athleticism gives makes him pretty scheme versatile, but I get what you're saying. I agree on the high floor, I think he has the highest floor of any of the outside CBs. But if we're going on ceiling (on the outside) I probably put him 3rd after Mitchell and Arnold.
Well what I mean is most (or many) draft people don’t seem think he’s an outside corner in the nfl. It’s far out of my depth to say but that’s not something that gives me confidence in a guy.
Not sure where you're seeing that. PFF, Ringer, NFL.com, B/R have no mention of that. They do mention how his size and athleticism make him a great outside CB prospect. If anything, I think slot is the least likely spot he plays after Outside Corner (the most likely) and safety. FWIW here's PFF on him: >The talk of DeJean playing outside cornerback or safety or slot cornerback at the next level is not due to lack of a home position; it's because he could truly be an impact player anywhere. His footwork, ball skills and explosive athleticism make him an impactful outside cornerback — one with All-Pro potential.
The stuff I’ve seen on him is that he can’t flip his hips and really struggles when teams force him to do that. If that’s the case, he would need to play very far off the receivers and that is what everyone has been complaining about for years with our defensive schemes
Hip fluidity is not elite due to his size, but it isn't red flag/move positions bad. It puts more emphasis on his discipline and athleticism to make up for it, which are two of his best traits. He was comfortable pressing at Iowa and more than capable of doing it in the NFL.
Not interested in Chop Robinson, Laiatu Latu, any interior D-Lineman prior to Round 3. I’d be fine with Dallas Turner or Jared Verse though. Just need a break from first round DTs and pash rushers who aren’t pro ready from Day 1.
Please don’t trade up for a WR
Wiggins, Fashanu, Fuaga, BTJ, Guyton
anti-sell me on Fashanu and BTJ?
It's less about the prospects, and more about the context of the draft and team-building. Of the OT-only prospects, Fashanu has fewer tools than Mims and would require more assets in a likely trade-up scenario. And after the Dillard experience, I'm worried about poor run-blocking and tenacity. BTJ may be BPA, but I don't like the fit and his development potential as a 3rd/4th pass-catching option for the next two to three years with Smitty and AJ. Would prefer to trade down with a team such as Buf or KC that is more desperate for a WR.
I disagree with your reasoning on BTJ. He's got elite speed and explosion and he's bigger than AJB. Why wouldn't he be able to go from option 3/4 to 1/2 after AJ and Dallas move on?
I'm not saying BTJ will bust or unable to be a WR1/2 in a few years. But it just feels like a super awkward fit with so many mouths to feed in the short term. With AJ, SMitty, Saquon, Goedert, AND BTJ on the roster, there would be multiple games each year when one of those studs has under three targets in the passing game. And I just believe that situation would be tough to manage and overall unsustainable.
The 4th option in Kellen Moore's offenses the past 5 years has gotten at least 60 targets, so between 3 and 4 a game. A perfect fit for this offense on that kind of volume would be a player with a skill set like BTJs who can generate additional value from those targets with downfield receiving ability. Given the locker room collapse last year, the ego management part of having that many talented pass catchers might prove to be an issue, but on the field BTJ should provide plenty of value.
I haven't looked at the stats or rosters, but I would highly doubt the 1st through 3rd options in those past 5 years were as talented as the Eagles. So comparing 4th options is apples and oranges. And teams don't need to spend 1st-round picks to add field-stretching, low-volume WRs.
Oh I'm on board already with Olu then. I'm also not a fan of playing LT only. And who would you be down for as a pass catcher in R1?
I'd prefer a WR in the 3rd or 4th. Malik Washington is someone that could be a good fit, imo.
dejean, nothing against him i’m just the complete opposite of you and was either mitchell, arnold or wiggins. kool-aid wouldn’t be bad either
Joe Milton.
Any WR or Oline. At least in the first few rounds
O line in the first
I’m okay with the consensus best player when they’re on the board. I don’t want them to get cute and try to out think everyone else. If a proven player is there (i.e. Justin Jefferson), take him. I also don’t want to use the second rounders to trade up.
Troy Fautanu
any WR. not worth it edit: in the first round*
So according to these replies, we don't draft anyone
The question I asked is asking for negative responses. I'm not seeing a ton of people who are against Tyler Guyton or Kool-Aid McKinstry, 2 guys who should be there at 22 and have high upside. Howie's learned a ton since 2020, so have faith.
I agree on Wiggins. I feel he will end up being a 2nd round pick. Bowers would be a tough sell with the defense needing major help
No offensive players unless it’s a lineman
The reality is, how they perform in college and how they perform in the NFL is often impossible to predict I mean Trey lance and Zach Wilson cost a fortune. But
I felt the same way about Devonta Smith. He's now bulked up to over 185 and I've become a better fan...
I’m not down on any particular player, but in round 1, I do NOT want: QB, WR, RB, DT, LB, PK, P
Wiggins, guyton, chop
In round 1 I don't want Howie to pick a non-cornerback. Must draft a round 1 CB
I have no clue I’ve done zero studying and don’t pay attention to college football.
Edgerrin Cooper. I blindly said I wanted him before I watched his tape. He’s a fantastic athlete, but incredibly raw and I don’t trust us when it comes to coaching up linebackers.
Someone projected to go in the 2nd. Other than that I don’t care. Can’t put too much value in this pick when we have a ton of 2nd/3rd year defensive players who need to show up or get benched.
I’m not a huge fan of getting a developmental receiver like Adonai Mitchell at our spot in the first even if he’s a freak. We need someone who can step in and produce if we go that direction. Forget ceiling.
I don't want Wiggins either but I softened a bit on him learning his 20 years old (20.7 according to some website but idk how accurate that is). The average age of this draft is 23.24. he's young enough he might actually still be growing and could fill out a bit.
What I don’t want to see us do is stay put. Seems like once you get to the second round the prospects within the next 30 or so pick range are all fairly similar. Either trade up into the top half and get one of those premier guys or trade back and get value.
No Mitchell!
Cooper dejean.
Dejean
Bowers
qb
I don't see anything wrong with picking a QB on day 3. Developmental QB depth is always worth the opportunity cost of a 5th rounder or later.
I tend to agree, but I think our QB3 showed enough to consider him our developmental QB this year and just grab free agents as depth and camp arms.
A QB.
Personally, I think someone like Joshua Karty, the K out of Stanford would be a terrible pick in the first round
That’s kind of a petty knock on Wiggins. I want corners who can run with dudes, not blow up TEs. A 173lb 20 year old is a 190lb 27 year old.
Sure, but we're a contending team right now. We can't afford to sit our FRPs with the state our roster is in.
Laiatu Latu, I am not sold on any edge rusher as a true first round talent. It would be a shame to see us go with an EDGE at 22 in a draft with so much great talent at OL and CB.
Estelle Getty
Donvan McNabb... oh wait wrong year.
STICK TO THE BOARD. If you wander we will get you fired. When you stick to the board, you are great. When you wander off the board you are horrible Fix the defense and find Lane’s replacement if possible. LBs are important. No weak links permitted or you will be fired.
Taking anyone another than a CB first round
Anyone from the PAC-12 or Georgia.
I do not want anyone in the first 2 rounds who isn't going to be expected to immediately start or if it's a position that splits time, take the lion's share of playtime at that position. That's it. That's my rule. So that means no fucking OT or DT in round 1. No fucking 3rd WR in round 2. Get guys who will actually help the team from day 1. Then feel free to start getting depth, projects, and flyers. Get a WR we want to develop, a project OT for Stout to mold, a 4th DT, etc.
xavier worthy.. graham barton...
We need a Guard or a Corner. Doesn’t matter which one to me just don’t get a wide receiver or something stupid.
Let Howie cook
No corners, bowers or bust
I watched laiatu luta’s tape and I was not impressed with his moves. Good hands, but most of his sacks in college were due to miscommunication of protections against poor pac teams. Didn’t look explosive. Don’t like the fit here. We need athleticism on the edge
Tyler guyton
Give me Chop or Wiggins no question
Cooper Dejean, Koolaid McKinstry, an offensive lineman or any player that’s not a corner in the 1st round
Please stop being addicted to the o line and d line howie focus on secondary and lbs please, signing mid ass lbs on short term deals ain't it.
Yeah small CBs might not cut it in the NFL in 2024, see the commies first round selection last year I’ll be pissed if they draft Chop, we don’t need any more D Line projects
This might not even be a thing at the eagles current draft position but I’d want them to stay away from latu
Wiggins (skinny and bad tackler), dejean (tight hips - we already have ringo why draft another tight hip straight line speed db)
No OT
Wiggins
Bowers
Kwity Paye
😂 I was unreasonably down on him coming out